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dadakarma
04-08-2012, 09:16 PM
by TBogg of Firedoglake.com:


Jesus H. Christ once said (http://bible.cc/matthew/19-21.htm):


“If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

Flatulent Jesus walrus Rick Warren tells Jesus to fuck all that noise (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/04/rick-warren-inability-to-delay-gratification-at-heart-of-economic-woes/):

WARREN: Well, certainly the Bible says we are to care about the poor. There’s over 2,000 versus in the Bible about the poor. And God says that those who care about the poor, God will care about them and God will bless them. But there’s a fundamental question on the meaning of “fairness.” Does fairness mean everybody makes the same amount of money? Or does fairness mean everybody gets the opportunity to make the same amount of money? I do not believe in wealth redistribution, I believe in wealth creation…


WARREN: The only way to get people out of poverty is J-O-B-S. Create jobs. To create wealth, not to subsidize wealth. When you subsidize people, you create the dependency. You — you rob them of dignity. There are a lot of negative things that happen to us. Rather, we should be focusing on wealth creation and job creation, in my opinion…




Dignitude (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/08/us/welfare-limits-left-poor-adrift-as-recession-hit.html?_r=2):


Esmeralda Murillo, a 21-year-old mother of two, lost her welfare check, landed in a shelter and then returned to a boyfriend whose violent temper had driven her away. “You don’t know who to turn to,” she said.
Maria Thomas, 29, with four daughters, helps friends sell piles of brand-name clothes, taking pains not to ask if they are stolen. “I don’t know where they come from,” she said. “I’m just helping get rid of them.”
To keep her lights on, Rosa Pena, 24, sold the groceries she bought with food stamps and then kept her children fed with school lunches and help from neighbors. Her post-welfare credo is widely shared: “I’ll do what I have to do.”
[...]
Representative Paul D. Ryan of Wisconsin, the top House Republican on budget issues, calls the current welfare program “an unprecedented success.” Mitt Romney, who leads the race for the Republican presidential nomination, has said he would place similar restrictions on “all these federal programs.” One of his rivals, Rick Santorum, calls the welfare law a source of spiritual rejuvenation.
“It didn’t just cut the rolls, but it saved lives,” Mr. Santorum said, giving the poor “something dependency doesn’t give: hope.”

Pie in the sky, bitch. get some.


http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2012/04/08/jesus-of-galts-gulch-2/

keyser soze
04-09-2012, 05:54 AM
More reeking piles from Warren....he's as disgusting as Limbaugh to me. This is what passes for Christianity with the dominionists.

Dagny
04-09-2012, 06:01 AM
I said it in another thread...creating wealth, is far different than creating jobs.

In this day of Wall St. schemes, there has never been more 'wealth', while job creation continues to lag behind.

Oil continues to drop in price, while gas continues to rise.

keyser soze
04-09-2012, 06:42 AM
All due to 'creating wealth' by manipulating the market.

Alias
04-09-2012, 08:42 AM
Matthew 26......Poor Jesus. He just can't win.

While Jesus was in Bethany in the home of Simon the Leper, a woman came to him with an alabaster jar of very expensive perfume, which she poured on his head as he was reclining at the table. When the disciples saw this, they were indignant. “Why this waste?” they asked. “This perfume could have been sold at a high price and the money given to the poor.” Aware of this, Jesus said to them, “Why are you bothering this woman? She has done a beautiful thing to me. The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me.

keyser soze
04-09-2012, 08:44 AM
What a guy!!!

Alias
04-09-2012, 09:00 AM
What a guy!!!

Don't you love the baby Jesus?

Alias
04-09-2012, 09:18 AM
When I try to reconcile conservative ideology with the teachings of Christ, I can only wonder how the man who gave out the loaves and fishes to the multitude by the Sea of Galilee would not be branded a "liberal" today.

If Jesus were a liberal, he would have had to get a permit first before he gave the Sermon on the Mount. Then he would have had to pay for porta-potties. Then he would have had the taxpayer for the catering of the bread and fish to feed the people. Then he would have to pay to have medical staff and an ambulance on hand in case anyone got sick.

Jesus said to give to Cesear what is Cesear's and to God what is God's. That's where the moonbats get confused. They think Govt is their God.

Alias
04-09-2012, 09:27 AM
"Blessed are the rich, for they shall receive tax cuts."

How do you "receive" a tax cut? Does the govt give you money from someone else?

Alias
04-09-2012, 10:15 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ1LC7AotNE

Peter1469
04-09-2012, 12:28 PM
When I try to reconcile conservative ideology with the teachings of Christ, I can only wonder how the man who gave out the loaves and fishes to the multitude by the Sea of Galilee would not be branded a "liberal" today.

A liberal today wouldn't give his own loaves and fish to the people; he would have government take loaves and fishes from the people who had them to give to those who don't.

See the difference?

dadakarma
04-09-2012, 12:36 PM
A liberal today wouldn't give his own loaves and fish to the people; he would have government take loaves and fishes from the people who had them to give to those who don't.

See the difference?

Should the people without fish and loaves starve?

keyser soze
04-09-2012, 12:40 PM
Of course....it's their own fault...they're lazy fucks and we need to reduce the population anyway....(sarcasm)

Mister D
04-09-2012, 12:41 PM
Should the people without fish and loaves starve?

88

Peter1469
04-09-2012, 12:41 PM
Should the people without fish and loaves starve?

Of course not. Jesus said that good men would volunteer to give of their own to the poor.

He never said let's create government to take from those who have.

You may be close to understanding the difference between statists and those who love liberty.

dadakarma
04-09-2012, 12:42 PM
Of course....it's their own fault...they're lazy fucks and we need to reduce the population anyway....(sarcasm)

:rofl: Christian interpretation of Christianity confuses the shit out me.

Mister D
04-09-2012, 12:42 PM
Of course....it's their own fault...they're lazy fucks and we need to reduce the population anyway....(sarcasm)

89

Peter1469
04-09-2012, 12:42 PM
Of course....it's their own fault...they're lazy fucks and we need to reduce the population anyway....(sarcasm)

Right, and they have a government program for that! :smiley:

Peter1469
04-09-2012, 12:43 PM
:rofl: Christian interpretation of Christianity confuses the shit out me.

Understandable.....

Alias
04-09-2012, 12:53 PM
Should the people without fish and loaves starve?

What's your point?

Alias
04-09-2012, 12:54 PM
:rofl: Christian interpretation of Christianity confuses the shit out me.

It helps to know your bible. Perhaps that's your problem.

Stoney
04-09-2012, 07:24 PM
I think this notion that you can take what doesn't belong to you and give it to someone who doesn't need it and call it charity is beyond reason. And that's what much of what welfare is. But what's worse is that this practice has created a class of people who have no hope, no self respect, no sense of accomplishment.

The War on Poverty has done nothing short of creating comfortable poverty. We need to help people. But we need to leave them with a need to help themselves.

And I actually believe that most on the left understand that. Its no longer an issue of helping. Its an issue of creating dependency.

dadakarma
04-09-2012, 07:32 PM
Of course not. Jesus said that good men would volunteer to give of their own to the poor.

He never said let's create government to take from those who have.

You may be close to understanding the difference between statists and those who love liberty.

Good men volunteering to give of their own to the poor. Is that feeding poor people adequately?

Peter1469
04-09-2012, 07:32 PM
When the left equates government force with Jesus's teachings they are just demonstrating their lack of intellectual capacity. You can't expect excellence out of people who are not capable of excellence. Have patience with them.

Peter1469
04-09-2012, 07:33 PM
Good men volunteering to give of their own to the poor. Is that feeding poor people adequately?


Now try to link that into the power of our federal government. Think.

dadakarma
04-09-2012, 07:35 PM
Now try to link that into the power of our federal government. Think.

I have. I'm asking you. Is volunteerism working to feed everyone adequately?

ramone
04-09-2012, 07:47 PM
"Blessed are the rich, for they shall receive tax cuts."

Blessed are those who pay the taxes of the 45 % who don't pay anything and yea, tho they pay none, they receive a multitude of riches bestowed upon them although they not lift a hand to help pay for their gifts.

Mainecoons
04-09-2012, 07:49 PM
Tell me, would you contribute to a charity that spent 75 percent of what you gave them on overhead?

That's what happens to your welfare tax dollar. Mainly, it supports a bunch of grossly overpaid government workers and contractors. Do you think we should be borrowing half the Federal budget to support the wealthy government workers of Washington D.C.?

Yeah, you probably do. Are you one of them?

dadakarma
04-09-2012, 07:50 PM
Tell me, would you contribute to a charity that spent 75 percent of what you gave them on overhead?

That's what happens to your welfare tax dollar. Mainly, it supports a bunch of grossly overpaid government workers and contractors. Do you think we should be borrowing half the Federal budget to support the wealthy government workers of Washington D.C.?

Yeah, you probably do. Are you one of them?

Is volunteerism working to feed everyone adequately?

Mister D
04-09-2012, 07:53 PM
Good men volunteering to give of their own to the poor. Is that feeding poor people adequately?

What difference does it make? You're talking about Christ's teachings. Christ did not demand that the state compel men but that their own conscience should and must.

ramone
04-09-2012, 07:54 PM
Is volunteerism working to feed everyone adequately?

Since when did it become my responsibility to feed everyone, and what role does government have to force me to feed people who can but won't work? People like you who want to give my hard earned money away piss me off. How about you give yours away, seems the left have plenty of money. They just want to give everyone's away but theirs.

Mainecoons
04-09-2012, 07:54 PM
You didn't answer my question. Here's some reading for you:

http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/index.cfm?a=Files.Serve&File_id=411794d5-fe7a-44ca-875e-bd1bacb1d94d&SK=5534D82AB3BC707AF14D46988D104370


Too many federal programs intended to assist needy Americans and provide essential services waste far too much on administrative costs and overhead.

These excessive overhead costs siphon funding from the very populations the program is intended to serve.
Would you like to compare the overhead costs of the Salvation Army with the Federal government?

dadakarma
04-09-2012, 07:55 PM
You didn't answer my question. Here's some reading for you:

http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/index.cfm?a=Files.Serve&File_id=411794d5-fe7a-44ca-875e-bd1bacb1d94d&SK=5534D82AB3BC707AF14D46988D104370

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Would you like to compare the overhead costs of the Salvation Army with the Federal government?

You haven't answered my question about volunteerism. Should we just let people starve? Is that the plan?

ramone
04-09-2012, 07:56 PM
Is volunteerism working to feed everyone adequately?

Since when did it become my responsibility to feed everyone, and what role does government have to force me to feed people who can but won't work? People like you who want to give my hard earned money away piss me off. How about you give yours away, seems the left have plenty of money. They just want to give everyone's away but theirs.

All made bigger by bleeding heart liberals who want to mother hen the world, not just the deadbeats here in the US.

ramone
04-09-2012, 07:57 PM
You haven't answered my question about volunteerism. Should we just let people starve? Is that the plan?

How about you answer my question, what role does the government have in forcing me to feed anybody? Is this not socialism?

dadakarma
04-09-2012, 07:58 PM
How about you answer my question, what role does the government have in forcing me to feed anybody? Is this not socialism?

Is volunteerism working to feed everyone adequately?

ramone
04-09-2012, 07:59 PM
Is volunteerism working to feed everyone adequately?

There are shelters and food banks in every town in the US. Where do you get off on saying that people go hungry, if they do it is their own fault.

dadakarma
04-09-2012, 08:01 PM
There are shelters and food banks in every town in the US. Where do you get off on saying that people go hungry, if they do it is their own fault.

Are the food banks and shelters providing enough to adequately feed the hungry?

ramone
04-09-2012, 08:01 PM
Now I've answered your question, you answer mine. How can the government take money from me that I work for every day and give it away to somebody else?

dadakarma
04-09-2012, 08:02 PM
Now I've answered your question, you answer mine. How can the government take money from me that I work for every day and give it away to somebody else?

Are the donations from good men volunteering adequately taking care of all the food needs of the poor?

Mainecoons
04-09-2012, 08:02 PM
The General Accounting Office, the independent watchdog of federal spending, released a report last March that estimated we could save more than $300 billion annually by removing duplication,[/URL] overlap and outright wasteful practices from federal programs and agencies. An analyst with the Heritage Foundation came to the same conclusion regarding the amount that can be trimmed from federal spending, though the ways he lists for achieving those savings doesn’t match exactly what the GAO report said.

[URL]http://www.redstonereview.com/2011/12/it%E2%80%99s-simple-cut-federal-spending-waste/ (http://www.redstonereview.com/2011/12/it%e2%80%99s-simple-cut-federal-spending-waste/1011p11toilet/)

Golly, that's more money than those evil "Bush" tax cuts. :grin:

ramone
04-09-2012, 08:02 PM
Are the food banks and shelters providing enough to adequately feed the hungry?

Are you are broken record or something? Answer my question or concede defeat, because you have nothing to say.

dadakarma
04-09-2012, 08:03 PM
Are you are broken record or something? Answer my question or concede defeat, because you have nothing to say.

It's not surprising that you're unable to answer my question. Not surprising at all.

Mainecoons
04-09-2012, 08:03 PM
I can see you can't answer my question. Yours is one of those "when did you stop beating your wife?" types?

Do you have any clue just how bankrupt your thinking is?

dadakarma
04-09-2012, 08:04 PM
I can see you can't answer my question. Yours is one of those "when did you stop beating your wife?" types?

Do you have any clue just how bankrupt your thinking is?

Is volunteerism enough to adequately meet the needs of the poor in this country?

Simple question, yes or no?

ramone
04-09-2012, 08:04 PM
Are the donations from good men volunteering adequately taking care of all the food needs of the poor?

How much do you donate to the needy DADA? Do you volunteer at a shelter, drive meals to the elderly? Throw in some money at the salvation army's kettle? Sure you do, people like you always complain but it's the other people who do the contributions.

Mister D
04-09-2012, 08:05 PM
Well, at least we're passed the 'Jesus was a liberal' canard.

dadakarma
04-09-2012, 08:05 PM
How much do you donate to the needy DADA? Do you volunteer at a shelter, drive meals to the elderly? Throw in some money at the salvation army's kettle? Sure you do, people like you always complain but it's the other people who do the contributions.

Answer the question, Ramone. Is volunteerism enough to adequately meet the needs of the poor in this country?

ramone
04-09-2012, 08:07 PM
Is volunteerism enough to adequately meet the needs of the poor in this country?

Simple question, yes or no?

Yes, the programs are there if people take advantage of them. Don't try to turn this into there isn't enough money being spent on the needy. You can't prove that, look at the shit that has gone on in the past few years. Look up some section 8, AA, Welfare, Medicare, Medicade, Illegal emergency care expendatures. Bullshit, we are a welfare class and there is no doubt about it.

dadakarma
04-09-2012, 08:11 PM
Yes, the programs are there if people take advantage of them. Don't try to turn this into there isn't enough money being spent on the needy. You can't prove that, look at the shit that has gone on in the past few years. Look up some section 8, AA, Welfare, Medicare, Medicade, Illegal emergency care expendatures. Bullshit, we are a welfare class and there is no doubt about it.

What "programs", Ramone? What are you referring to? My question referred to volunteerism. Charities. Are those the "programs" to which you're referring? Those are serving to adequately feed everyone who is hungry?

Mainecoons
04-09-2012, 08:13 PM
Yawn. They taught us this attack tactic in Debate 101. Ask a red herring question to avoid answering a real one. You must be some ill-educated, brain washed 20 something. We've seen this and done that a long time ago. Find another audience to bore.

ramone
04-09-2012, 08:13 PM
I'll go one step farther and say it is not only volunteerism it is forced robbery by the government in the way of taxes to do it. The volunteers are just that trying to help. Our elected officials are the ones robbing us blind, mostly led by the progressives who thing that a welfare state is a good thing. Marxism looks good on paper too, never worked and taking from somebody else to give to another is Marxism. Plain and simple.

dadakarma
04-09-2012, 08:14 PM
Yawn. They taught us this attack tactic in Debate 101. Ask a red herring question to avoid answering a real one. You must be some ill-educated, brain washed 20 something. We've seen this and done that a long time ago. Find another audience to bore.

No one's forcing you to stay here and avoid answering simple questions, Mainecoons. You seem to enjoy doing just that. :)

ramone
04-09-2012, 08:15 PM
What "programs", Ramone? What are you referring to? My question referred to volunteerism. Charities. Are those the "programs" to which you're referring? Those are serving to adequately feed everyone who is hungry?

They don't have to you imbecile, out government is paying for it. Trying to debate you is worse than having a conversation with my 9 year old grand son. At least he has a grasp of what is in the constitution and why there was a revolt among the people.

Conley
04-09-2012, 08:15 PM
No one in this country should go hungry. That's an even more basic need than health care and there's plenty of food. Look at how much this country spends on crop subsidies, we're spending vast sums of money on food already.

There is a problem with the programs as they are currently run, in that some are neglected while others are able to take advantage of the system (like the lotto winner, or the fact that here in CA food stamps can be used for tobacco and alcohol). It seems to me some of this stuff wouldn't be rocket science to clean up, but it could cost votes so nothing is ever fixed.

dadakarma
04-09-2012, 08:16 PM
I'll go one step farther and say it is not only volunteerism it is forced robbery by the government in the way of taxes to do it. The volunteers are just that trying to help. Our elected officials are the ones robbing us blind, mostly led by the progressives who thing that a welfare state is a good thing. Marxism looks good on paper too, never worked and taking from somebody else to give to another is Marxism. Plain and simple.

In other words, volunteerism is insufficient in adequately feeding the hungry. So without government intervention, people would starve.

dadakarma
04-09-2012, 08:18 PM
They don't have to you imbecile, out government is paying for it. Trying to debate you is worse than having a conversation with my 9 year old grand son. At least he has a grasp of what is in the constitution and why there was a revolt among the people.

I'm betting your grandson knows how to answer a simple question. He could teach his grandpa a thing or two. ;)

ramone
04-09-2012, 08:19 PM
What "programs", Ramone? What are you referring to? My question referred to volunteerism. Charities. Are those the "programs" to which you're referring? Those are serving to adequately feed everyone who is hungry?

They don't have to you imbecile, out government is paying for it. Trying to debate you is worse than having a conversation with my 9 year old grand son. At least he has a grasp of what is in the constitution and why there was a revolt among the people.

You are a retard, I've nothing to add to this because you repeat yourself. I'm with Main, nothing here to debate. Have fun talking to yourself and your friends.

dadakarma
04-09-2012, 08:23 PM
They don't have to you imbecile, out government is paying for it. Trying to debate you is worse than having a conversation with my 9 year old grand son. At least he has a grasp of what is in the constitution and why there was a revolt among the people.

You are a retard, I've nothing to add to this because you repeat yourself. I'm with Main, nothing here to debate. Have fun talking to yourself and your friends.

I am - aren't you? :)

Peter1469
04-09-2012, 08:42 PM
I have. I'm asking you. Is volunteerism working to feed everyone adequately?

Americans are the most charitable people on earth. How much more would they give if taxes weren't sucking them dry?

dadakarma
04-09-2012, 08:45 PM
Americans are the most charitable people on earth. How much more would they give if taxes weren't sucking them dry?

Is volunteerism working to feed everyone adequately? Yes or no?

Peter1469
04-09-2012, 08:47 PM
Is volunteerism working to feed everyone adequately? Yes or no?

Straw man.

We are overtaxed. That makes it harder to do what Jesus asked of us.

keyser soze
04-09-2012, 08:49 PM
Hell no and we need programs to make sure people are being fed. There are places that are outlawing the feeding of the homeless...WTF kind of country are we becoming?

Peter1469
04-09-2012, 08:51 PM
Hell no and we need programs to make sure people are being fed. There are places that are outlawing the feeding of the homeless...WTF kind of country are we becoming?

I agree with that. Restaurants should be able to donate leftovers to homeless shelters. In many states that cannot.

Mister D
04-09-2012, 08:51 PM
Hell no and we need programs to make sure people are being fed. There are places that are outlawing the feeding of the homeless...WTF kind of country are we becoming?

Some people don't feel particularly safe when drug addicts and the mentally ill congregate in their towns. Can't say I blame them.

Mister D
04-09-2012, 08:52 PM
I agree with that. Restaurants should be able to donate leftovers to homeless shelters. In many states that cannot.

Agreed. I great deal of food seems to go to waste.

ramone
04-09-2012, 08:52 PM
Hell no and we need programs to make sure people are being fed. There are places that are outlawing the feeding of the homeless...WTF kind of country are we becoming?

A socialistic welfare state, North Korea does just what you want to do. Go live there and tell me how you like it.

ramone
04-09-2012, 08:55 PM
I agree with that. Restaurants should be able to donate leftovers to homeless shelters. In many states that cannot.

Blame the government for that, they can't give out bagel's to homeless people because they have too much salt in them. Well damn it, Moochelle obama strikes again with her health kick crap. Pretty sure you could get a bagel in 07 in a shelter. Go figure,.....

keyser soze
04-09-2012, 08:56 PM
What crap...that isn't why. They want the homeless to disappear...go away...out of sight, out of mind...they don't give a damn why should they....they have theirs.

dadakarma
04-09-2012, 08:59 PM
Straw man.

We are overtaxed. That makes it harder to do what Jesus asked of us.

No it isn't. It's a simple question. I'll take that ^ as a 'no'.

Mister D
04-09-2012, 09:00 PM
What crap...that isn't why. They want the homeless to disappear...go away...out of sight, out of mind...they don't give a damn why should they....they have theirs.

When Rudy Guiliani forced the deranged and drug addicted homeless into NYC shelters liberals were apoplectic. Is the idea to leave them on street so you can make a point? WTF is the matter with you people?

dadakarma
04-09-2012, 09:01 PM
What crap...that isn't why. They want the homeless to disappear...go away...out of sight, out of mind...they don't give a damn why should they....they have theirs.


Remember the applause at the debate where Ron Paul insinuated that people who couldn't afford health care should be left to die.

ramone
04-09-2012, 09:03 PM
What crap...that isn't why. They want the homeless to disappear...go away...out of sight, out of mind...they don't give a damn why should they....they have theirs.

Well, it is theirs isn't it? Why should they be forced to give it away? How about i enact a law that forces you to give 50 % + of your money away. That ok with you?

keyser soze
04-09-2012, 09:05 PM
No it isn't. It's a simple question. I'll take that ^ as a 'no'.
They talk like they've forgotten we're the largest economy in the world. We aren't broke...not in the least.

Mister D
04-09-2012, 09:07 PM
They talk like they've forgotten we're the largest economy in the world. We aren't broke...not in the least.

Wow.

ramone
04-09-2012, 09:07 PM
They talk like they've forgotten we're the largest economy in the world. We aren't broke...not in the least.

What planet do you live on. Say hello to the cone heads when you board that space ship to go back to da mudda land.

keyser soze
04-09-2012, 09:12 PM
Remember the applause at the debate where Ron Paul insinuated that people who couldn't afford health care should be left to die.
He was speaking to the base just like the racist shit that was fired recently from that RW rag.

This guy
http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/2733-Derbyshire-quot-Avoid-Concentrations-of-Blacks-quot

Everything he said and he said a lot more than is being talked about is the truth about how the right thinks.

Peter1469
04-09-2012, 09:12 PM
No it isn't. It's a simple question. I'll take that ^ as a 'no'.


It is a strawman. Americans are the most generous of people. You are likely aware of their current tax burden. Just think of how much more generous Americans would be if they were not overtaxed.

Peter1469
04-09-2012, 09:13 PM
Remember the applause at the debate where Ron Paul insinuated that people who couldn't afford health care should be left to die.

He didn't do that. Do you enjoy telling ties?

Ron Paul asked about personal responsibility. You left-tards are going to bankrupt us yet.

Mister D
04-09-2012, 09:17 PM
It is a strawman. Americans are the most generous of people. You are likely aware of their current tax burden. Just think of how much more generous Americans would be if they were not overtaxed.

Indeed. Americans are a very generous people.

dadakarma
04-09-2012, 09:23 PM
He didn't do that. Do you enjoy telling ties?

Ron Paul asked about personal responsibility. You left-tards are going to bankrupt us yet.

I'm not lying. Quit dancing around the truth. We all saw and heard it. His audience applauded at the notion of letting people die.

Peter1469
04-09-2012, 09:40 PM
I'm not lying. Quit dancing around the truth. We all saw and heard it. His audience applauded at the notion of letting people die.
Incorrect. He called on personal responsibly and he preaches for charity over government mandates.

You lefties are so predictable. Nothing gets in the way of the power of the State.

dadakarma
04-09-2012, 10:00 PM
Well this has been very entertaining, seeing how many people dodge a simple question.

Particularly funny is the justification that Jesus's call to give aid to the poor can't be followed due to high taxes. :rofl:

Wonder how many defenders of that idiocy call themselves Christians? Don't worry, I'm not asking. I don't care.

Thanks for playing, kids. :)

ramone
04-09-2012, 10:12 PM
Ahh, I haven't felt this good since I divorced my first ole lady. # two on the list lol, trolls with no attention move on.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5079/6917056392_04e52c403f_c.jpg

wingrider
04-10-2012, 12:12 AM
Well this has been very entertaining, seeing how many people dodge a simple question.

Particularly funny is the justification that Jesus's call to give aid to the poor can't be followed due to high taxes. :rofl:

Wonder how many defenders of that idiocy call themselves Christians? Don't worry, I'm not asking. I don't care.

Thanks for playing, kids. :)
i get real tired of hearing this misquoted and taken out of context, her is the actual subject.:

18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God (http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/god.html).
20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery (http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/adultery.html), Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor (http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/poor.html)

, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.


Jesus wasn't talking about obtaining salvation by giving away your possessions, if that were the case then salvation could be obtained by good works which negates the necessity of Jesus death and resurrection, He was telling the man to FOLLOW Christ. the reason Jesus told this man to give his possessions away was because he knew the man loved his money more than he loved God. Jesus was not speaking of Christains at this point for one main reason.. there were no Christians at this point in history. there was Christ , his 12 Diciples and the crowd of people who followed him to hear him speak and to see his miracles . People weren't called Christians until about 2 years or so after Jesus

Dagny
04-10-2012, 06:32 AM
I think this notion that you can take what doesn't belong to you and give it to someone who doesn't need it and call it charity is beyond reason. And that's what much of what welfare is. But what's worse is that this practice has created a class of people who have no hope, no self respect, no sense of accomplishment. I respectfully submit that this 'class of people' was created at our nation's founding, and continued for centuries.
Although no longer 'legal', it could be argued that slavery, through social views, was continued until these flawed programs were created.
You simply cannot ignore the fact that we had the burden to create an environment whereby those who were shackled to the starting gate, could now attempt to begin the race.

Yes...the programs failed miserably. That doesn't mean they weren't necessary.

Stoney
04-10-2012, 06:52 AM
I respectfully submit that this 'class of people' was created at our nation's founding, and continued for centuries.
Although no longer 'legal', it could be argued that slavery, through social views, was continued until these flawed programs were created.
You simply cannot ignore the fact that we had the burden to create an environment whereby those who were shackled to the starting gate, could now attempt to begin the race.

Yes...the programs failed miserably. That doesn't mean they weren't necessary.

"Yes...the programs failed miserably. That doesn't mean they weren't necessary."

Is that to say because the programs have good intentions we should overlook their failure?

I'm of the belief that charity would work. But, since we haven't relied on charity for so long its not something I can prove. As it is we throw money at the problem so that we feel better about it and produce results that no Christian would condone. If we truly care about the downtrodden we have to change the results of what we're doing. Us feeling better is not getting the job done.

Mainecoons
04-10-2012, 07:08 AM
Hunger in America: 2012 United States Hunger and Poverty Facts
World Hunger Education Service
Hunger in the United States
Three years after the onset of the financial and economic crisis, hunger remains high in the United States. The financial and economic crisis that erupted in 2008 caused a dramatic increase in hunger in the United States. This high level of hunger continues in 2010, according to the latest government report (with the most recent statistics) released in September 2011 (Coleman-Jensen 2011 (http://www.ers.usda.gov/Publications/err125/)).

In 2010, 17.2 million households, 14.5 percent of households (approximately one in seven), were food insecure, the highest number ever recorded in the United States 1 (Coleman-Jensen 2011, p. v.)
In 2010, about one-third of food-insecure households (6.7 million households, or 5.4 percent of all U.S. households) had very low food security (compared with 4.7 million households (4.1 percent) in 2007. In households with very low food security, the food intake of some household members was reduced, and their normal eating patterns were disrupted because of the household’s food insecurity (Coleman-Jensen 2011, p. v., Nord 2009 (http://www.ers.usda.gov/Publications/ERR83/ERR83.pdf), p. iii.) .
In 2010, children were food insecure at times during the year in 9.8 percent of households with children (3.9 million households.) In one percent of households with children,one or more of the children experienced the most severe food-insecure condition measured by USDA, very low food security, in which meals were irregular and food intake was below levels considered adequate by caregivers (Coleman-Jensen 2011, p. vi).
The median [a type of average] food-secure household spent 27 percent more on food than the median food-insecure household of the same size and household composition (Coleman-Jensen 2011, p. vi)..
Background: The United States changed the name of its definitions in 2006 that eliminated references to hunger, keeping various categories of food insecurity. This did not represent a change in what was measured. Very low food insecurity (described as food insecurity with hunger prior to 2006) means that, at times during the year, the food intake of household members was reduced and their normal eating patterns were disrupted because the household lacked money and other resources for food. This means that people were hungry ( in the sense of "the uneasy or painful sensation caused by want of food" [Oxford English Dictionary 1971] for days each year (Nord 2009 p. iii-iv.).
Poverty in the United States
The official poverty measure is published by the United States Census Bureau and shows that:

In 2010, 46.9 million people were in poverty, up from 37.3 million in 2007 -- the fourth consecutive annual increase in the number of people in poverty . This is the largest number in the 52 years for which poverty rates have been published (DeNavas-Walt 2011 (http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/p60-239.pdf), p. 14).
The 2010 poverty rate was 15.1 percent, up from 12.5 percent in 1997. This is the highest poverty rate since 1993, but 7.3 percentage points lower than the poverty rate in 1959, the first year for poverty estimates. (DeNavas-Walt 2011 (http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/p60-239.pdf), p. 14).
The 2010 poverty rate for Hispanics was 26.6 percent, for Blacks 27.4 percent.
In 2010, the poverty rate increased for children under age 18 from 20.7 percent to 22.0 percent. (DeNavas-Walt 2010 (http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/about/overview/index.html) p. 14).
20.5 million Americans live in extreme poverty. This means their family’s cash income is less than half of the poverty line, or about $10,000 a year for a family of four (DeNavas-Walt 2011 (http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/p60-239.pdf), p. 19).
49.9 million people or 16.3 percent of the American people, do not have medical insurance (DeNavas-Walt 2011 (http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/p60-239.pdf), p. 23).
In 2011 the Census Bureau published a supplemental poverty measure for the first time (US Census Bureau 2011b). This new measure addresses seven concerns that have been raised about the official poverty measure, including the fact that the offical poverty measure does not reflect the effects of key government policies that alter the disposable income of families and thus their poverty status, such as the SNAP/food stamp program. (For a good brief discussion of these issues see 2011b, p.1-3.) Taking these adjustments into account, the supplemental poverty measure showed a 3 million increase in the number of poor people in 2010, compared to the official poverty rate. Who is poor shows some striking changes. The percentage of children in poverty is 27.7 percent of the total population in poverty with the supplemental measure and 36.1 with the official measure; while people over 65 are 12.7 percent of the total population in poverty in the supplemental measure and 7.6 percent in the official measure (2011b, p.3-8). The supplemental poverty measure does measure poverty more accurately, and it is gratifiying to see that programs to reduce poverty and hunger among children have had an impact.


http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/Learn/us_hunger_facts.htm

What I can't figure out is what makes Liberals think that government is any better than volunteerism. However, I can guarantee you all those government workers in D.C. who manage to siphon off much of the printed money being thrown at these programs are not hungry or ill housed. In fact, most of the country's most affluent counties are around D.C.

And gollee, look at how those hunger and poverty figures are going straight up under Barack Hussein Obama and all his deficit spending and welfare programs. Gee, you would have thought that everyone would be just fine by now.

Insanity: The act of doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. Are you insane, Dada?

keyser soze
04-10-2012, 07:19 AM
Yet you would have us continue an insane, failed financial philosophy of 'trickle down' economics..give everything away to the richest and it will trickle down...zombie economics.