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MMC
08-02-2011, 01:43 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/syrians-mark-bleak-ramadan-80-killed-hama-002015042.html
Reuters – 27 mins ago.....
AMMAN (Reuters) - Syrians began the Muslim Ramadan fast in somber mood on Monday after troops stormed Hama, scene of a 1982 massacre, in one of the bloodiest days of a five-month-old uprising against President Bashar al-Assad.
Rights activists said 80 civilians were killed in Sunday's tank-backed assault on the central Syrian city where Assad's father crushed an armed Muslim Brotherhood revolt 29 years ago by razing neighborhoods and killing many thousands of people.

Security forces, dominated by Assad's minority Alawite sect, had besieged the Sunni Muslim city of 700,000 for nearly a month before Sunday's crackdown on the eve of Ramadan, a holy month when Muslims fast in daylight hours.
The Muslim Brotherhood accused the Alawite elite of waging sectarian warfare on Sunnis by attacking Hama.

President Barack Obama said he was appalled by the Syrian government's "horrifying" violence against its people in Hama and promised to work with others to isolate Assad.
"
Syria will be a better place when a democratic transition goes forward," Obama said in a statement.Several European countries condemned the Hama assault. Italy and Germany called for a U.N. Security Council meeting, but Britain ruled out any foreign military intervention.
The council was expected to hold closed-door consultations on Monday, a spokesman for Germany's U.N. mission said.The European Union plans to extend sanctions on Monday by imposing asset freezes and travel bans on five more Syrians. EU sanctions already target Assad and at least two dozen officials, as well as Syrian firms linked to the military.....snip

Seems the Sunni don't like it when they are the ones being shot at instead of doing the shooting of others. Interesting to note that whereever the Muslim BrotherHood goes all of a sudden everybody wants Democracy. Yet as the AP stated the MB started this shit back almost 30 yrs ago with Syria alone. "What," no one else sees the play as to how the Sunni have gained control of several countries. but want control of more Countries in the region.

Note Obama didnt say IF a Democratic transition takes place. He said WHEN the transition takes place. Looks Like the Sunni does intend to be the shit-stirrers for the Region Despite the Appearances of things on the ground. Thoughts?

MMC
08-02-2011, 01:51 PM
The Syrians continued shelling more of the Sunni in their Country. The EU added five more members of the Assad Government to the Sanctions and Ban. Today Italy has called home its Envoy.....dead 134 in the last 3 days.

Syria death toll rises, Italy recalls envoy - Yahoo! News

Syria has incurred international opprobrium for its harsh measures, but need not fear the kind of foreign military intervention that NATO launched to back rebels in Libya.Consultations at the Security Council on Monday failed to produce agreement on adopting a Western-backed draft resolution condemning Syria or settling for a less binding statement.
European countries first circulated the draft resolution two months ago but Russia and China, both allies of Damascus, were opposed to it. Temporary council members Brazil, India, Lebanon and South Africa also said they did not support it.

"Today further EU targeted sanctions on Syria come into force. The message is clear and unambiguous: those responsible for the repression will be singled out and held accountable," British Foreign Secretary William Hague said.

"There's no indication whatsoever that the Americans are, that we would get involved directly with respect to this," Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters at the end of a visit to Iraq.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was due to meet expatriate Syrian political activists on Tuesday.
U.S. President Barack Obama said on Sunday he was appalled by the violence committed by the Syrian government and that he would work with allies to isolate Assad. Obama has said Assad has lost legitimacy and that Washington is weighing more sanctions, including on Syria's oil and gas industry....snip~

Looks Like Admiral Mullins just out right lied to the Iraqis' and the World. Mullens states that there is no indication that the US was or that we are likely to get directly involved in this. Then what is SOS Clinton meeting with Ex-Syrian Patriots today. Moreover how can they be Patriots if the Assads have been in power for over 30 yrs? Additionally what is this statement by the Brits.....those singled out that are about repression will be singled out. <<<<< What right does other foreign countries have that allows them to take action over another countries political domain and use such terms as repression. Why are the Brits and all these dipshits about the New Form of Democracy, not crying about the repression brought on by China. Especially when the Chinese said basically to the US and the Brits. Fuck your New and Old Version of Democracy. Where is the Big mouth Brits. That could not win any type of Military engagement in the M.E. on their own?


Also How is it the US is not getting driectly involved. When this President has stated World-Wide that Assad has lost his legitmacy. What does this statement mean to the rest of the UN Security Council and the UN? What does this mean to the American Citizens? Are we talking to hear ourselves talk. Syria is not like Libya and all those other countries controlled by the Sunni. Should we even care if the Syrians want to kill Sunni or even chase them out of their country? What the Sunni don't like whats happening to them in Syria? How's it feel to wear that boot-mark all up in their ass for a change?

Perhaps in the long-term vison of things to come.....this is something to be noted for all others in the M.E. and that they CAN stand up to the SUNNI.....and not only stand up to them. But be able to tell them to kiss my ass. Plus get the hell out of other peoples countries. http://www.politicalhotwire.com/images/smilies/bbc/f_erm.gif

hellraiser
08-02-2011, 01:55 PM
you think all sunni are bad? or just most?

not attack i really want to know why

MMC
08-02-2011, 02:13 PM
you think all sunni are bad? or just most?

not attack i really want to know why


I consider most of the Sunni Bad, not all of them. Most because they are killing and committing genocide against the Shia their cousins.. Attempting to set up proxy governments in the M.E. and attempting to interfere into our political Campaigns. As they play both parties in this Country. Note also it is the Sunni, Led by the Saud. Saudia Arabia, that recieves all this military aid from the US. Bahrain is home of the 5th Fleet. Plus one can look and see what we are doing in Yemen. Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates.

hellraiser
08-02-2011, 02:18 PM
i think when you say bad things about such a big group its not helpful

may as well say all white people are bad or all women small

better to say it is a bad person like saudi king

MMC
08-02-2011, 02:31 PM
i think when you say bad things about such a big group its not helpful

may as well say all white people are bad or all women small

better to say it is a bad person like saudi king


lol I wish it was that simple with such. But the Saudi have their own King. The Sunni have other Kings and or so called nobility. Usually they are the Prime Minister or President of these Sunni Led Countries. Moreover the Sunni are attacking and killing Shia in more than just one country. The Sunni is killing them in 5 or 6 countries. If not more. That is genocide. Seems the UN does not want to recognize this. But then has no problem letting the Sunni do to the Shia whatever they want. Notice you never hear anyone talking about Shia Kings. Usually just the wording of Shieks, for the leader of their tribe.

Mister D
08-02-2011, 08:19 PM
I knew Shia were a minority but I didn't realize they were a small minority. I thought it was more like 70/30 or even 60/40.

Sunni and Shia Islam are the two major denominations of Islam. The demographic breakdown between the two denominations is difficult to assess and varies by source, but a good approximation is that 80-90%[1][2][3][4] of the world's Muslims are Sunni and 10–20%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shi%27a%E2%80%93Sunni_relations

Conley
08-02-2011, 08:21 PM
Interesting. I confess I am largely ignorant of the distinction. I just know there is bad blood between the two...

Mister D
08-02-2011, 08:27 PM
Interesting. I confess I am largely ignorant of the distinction. I just know there is bad blood between the two...


Without looking it up I think it has something to do with who was the legitimate successor of Muhammad.

Mister D
08-02-2011, 08:35 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shi%27a%E2%80%93Sunni_relations#Differences_in_bel iefs_and_practices

Interesting but I just don't know enough about the structure of Islam.

Conley
08-02-2011, 08:43 PM
Wow, maybe it's because of a long day but I feel all of that is way over my head.

Mister D
08-02-2011, 08:48 PM
Wow, maybe it's because of a long day but I feel all of that is way over my head.


It's an alien culture. It's just not familiar at all to most westerners, for example. I often meet self-proclaimed agnostics and atheists online and they typically know something of the structure of Christianity and it's basic tenets. That's probably because our culture is steeped in Christianity and most of us have a Christian background regardless of whether or not we believe. When it comes to Islam that easy familiarity simply isn't there.

Conley
08-02-2011, 08:54 PM
That's a good point. I don't even have a basic foundation upon which to build more knowledge.

Mister D
08-02-2011, 08:58 PM
Sadly, Islam is thrust into our consciousness in ways that make it unappealing to say the least.

MMC
08-03-2011, 09:24 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-forces-hit-hama-again-u-senators-seek-013250846.html
AP – 34 mins ago.....
BEIRUT (AP) — Tanks took over a main square in the besieged Syrian city of Hama and electricity and telephone phone lines were cut off Wednesday as President Bashar Assad's regime showed no signs of halting the intense military assault against an uprising now in its fifth month, activists said.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton on Tuesday met with U.S.-based Syrian democracy activists as the Obama administration weighed new sanctions on Syria. Congressional calls also mounted for action against Assad's regime.

About 1,700 civilians have been killed since the largely peaceful protests against Assad's regime began in mid- March, according to tallies by activists.

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/EmsbS7awpH2k1I.zcNrK8Q--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD00MDI7cT04NTt3PTUxMg--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/AFP/photo_1312129125984-1-0.jpg

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/YvM2R8diieE3U1YlniS4tQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Y2g9MjUzO2NyPTE7Y3c9NDUwO2R4PTA7ZH k9MDtmaT11bGNyb3A7aD0xMDc7cT04NTt3PTE5MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2011-08-03T125518Z_01_BTRE77119VN00_RTROPTP_2_CNEWS-US-SYRIA.JPG http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/i3LUC2ewm_IRPY8DNII1.g--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Y2g9MzMyO2NyPTE7Y3c9NDUwO2R4PTA7ZH k9MDtmaT11bGNyb3A7aD0xNDE7cT04NTt3PTE5MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2011-08-03T125518Z_01_BTRE7720ZWA00_RTROPTP_2_SYRIA.JPG

Thus the Syrians are not playing with these Arabs..... :-\

Conley
08-03-2011, 10:27 AM
I can't help but wonder how this situation is going to end. It's been smoldering for months now, it seems like even with the acts of violence the protesters are not giving up. It will probably get bloodier. :-\

MMC
08-03-2011, 10:35 AM
I can't help but wonder how this situation is going to end. It's been smoldering for months now, it seems like even with the acts of violence the protesters are not giving up. It will probably get bloodier. :-\


Should there be that much emphasis placed upon this uprising by the Sunni over that of any other Arab countries where we see these uprisings? Should the Syrian government make concesions to the Sunni when they are not the majority of the population in Syria? The Sunni make no Concessions for any Shia. So wouldn't it be prudent to let the Syrians do whatever it wants to any other Sunni Government or Country if they try to meddle into Syrian affairs. It's not like Assad is trying to keep them there.

Conley
08-03-2011, 10:45 AM
Who/what is it that is placing such emphasis on the uprising? Do you feel that the U.S. is overstepping its bounds with threats of sanctions and other actions against Assad? I would agree that we should not be involved.

MMC
08-03-2011, 10:56 AM
Who/what is it that is placing such emphasis on the uprising? Do you feel that the U.S. is overstepping its bounds with threats of sanctions and other actions against Assad? I would agree that we should not be involved.


Yes.....I think the US is getting involved. If you look at my first post I think Mullens told the iraqis we are not getting involved. Then Clinton meets with Ex-Patriots??? What Syrian ex patriots that no ones has heard from for almost 30 yrs?

Plus the Obama did say on World-Wide television that Assad holds no more legitmacy. What does a US President making such a statement without involvement say to the UN Security Council and the UN? Plus Obama did not say IF Syria becomes democract. He Said WHEN!!!!!

Conley
08-03-2011, 10:59 AM
:-(

One would have hoped he'd learned his lesson with Libya. He needs to STFU. It's almost as if he's a neocon.

Conley
08-03-2011, 11:00 AM
Or rather, a liberal elite ;) :(

Mister D
08-03-2011, 11:04 AM
Who/what is it that is placing such emphasis on the uprising? Do you feel that the U.S. is overstepping its bounds with threats of sanctions and other actions against Assad? I would agree that we should not be involved.


Yes.....I think the US is getting involved. If you look at my first post I think Mullens told the iraqis we are not getting involved. Then Clinton meets with Ex-Patriots??? What Syrian ex patriots that no ones has heard from for almost 30 yrs?

Plus the Obama did say on World-Wide television that Assad holds no more legitmacy. What does a US President making such a statement without involvement say to the UN Security Council and the UN? Plus Obama did not say IF Syria becomes democract. He Said WHEN!!!!!


This certainly isn't the Obama that campaigned in '08. What happened to US arrogance?

Mister D
08-03-2011, 11:07 AM
Seems like BO is trying to make sure there is a broad international consensus before he acts. Too bad he doesn't wait for a broad consensus when it comes to domestic affairs. Anyway, I'm not sure how this makes US actions US actions any more legitimate. Because Europe agrees?

Conley
08-03-2011, 11:12 AM
Really...and after France's little stunt with Libya, do we really want Europe dictating US foreign policy? Not that we ever did, but if we're not going to learn from that cluster then there's no hope. :-\

Mister D
08-03-2011, 11:20 AM
Really...and after France's little stunt with Libya, do we really want Europe dictating US foreign policy? Not that we ever did, but if we're not going to learn from that cluster then there's no hope. :-\


BO is as naive as Bush but in a different way.

Conley
08-03-2011, 11:23 AM
Really...and after France's little stunt with Libya, do we really want Europe dictating US foreign policy? Not that we ever did, but if we're not going to learn from that cluster then there's no hope. :-\


BO is as naive as Bush but in a different way.


Is this another situation where they honestly believe they are "spreading democracy" ?

Surely they can't be so naive.

Mister D
08-03-2011, 11:29 AM
Really...and after France's little stunt with Libya, do we really want Europe dictating US foreign policy? Not that we ever did, but if we're not going to learn from that cluster then there's no hope. :-\


BO is as naive as Bush but in a different way.


Is this another situation where they honestly believe they are "spreading democracy" ?

Surely they can't be so naive.


It seems to me that BO thinks that an international consensus of some kind legitimizes US actions. What I'm saying is that a consensus of sorts makes BO believe that 1) it's in our interest as a world leader and 2) it's also the morally right thing to do. I thin that's very naive.

Mister D
08-03-2011, 11:30 AM
IOW, the international community is fed up with nation X so the US should take the lead in condemning nation X.

MMC
08-03-2011, 11:39 AM
Yes the Brits are calling for no such jumping like they did with libya. Which is more than likely the only reason why. Well that and being off into the Congo and the avrican Continent that is.....which is why I also put the thread up on sanctions and bans.

Still is the US words strong or weak when spoken? Or are we involving ourselves all due to the Sunni being attacked. While I am sure that their religon does not prevent them from killing others of their own faith. Is the UN words strong or weak. Russia and China wont freeze Assads assets. Probably a few others. But why would he want to leave in the first place. No sense in allowing others to pick him up so they can lay more pressure on his regime.

Not to mention they know Syria's Army is loyal to the Syrians and the Assad Regime.

hellraiser
08-03-2011, 11:51 AM
why not protect people? america is for democracy america inspires these revolution

Mister D
08-03-2011, 12:01 PM
why not protect people? america is for democracy america inspires these revolution


I seriously doubt that these "revolutions" are inspired by the America. You can't have it both ways. Is the US to run roughshod around the world "protecting people" and inspring democracy? Or should we tend to our own domestic matters and those that concern us internationally?

MMC
08-03-2011, 12:02 PM
why not protect people? america is for democracy america inspires these revolution


Because Americans are not protecting the Shia except in Iraq....why do you think this is? Could it be due to those in Iraq being Babylonian? Not the Syrians, Not the Perisians/Iranians no other Shia are we protecting like we do the Sunni.

Mister D
08-03-2011, 12:05 PM
why not protect people? america is for democracy america inspires these revolution


Because Americans are not protecting the Shia except in Iraq....why do you think this is? Could it be due to those in Iraq being Babylonian? Not the Syrians, Not the Perisians/Iranians no other Shia are we protecting like we do the Sunni.


Could you elaborate on the Sunnio connection? Does it concern US ties to the House of Saud?

hellraiser
08-03-2011, 12:18 PM
america tells the people to protest, they say overthrow your leader, they say we will help but then the help never comes. look at history, in iraq for many years america did nothing and saddam killed all who helped us during first war

MMC
08-03-2011, 12:24 PM
why not protect people? america is for democracy america inspires these revolution


Because Americans are not protecting the Shia except in Iraq....why do you think this is? Could it be due to those in Iraq being Babylonian? Not the Syrians, Not the Perisians/Iranians no other Shia are we protecting like we do the Sunni.


Could you elaborate on the Sunnio connection? Does it concern US ties to the House of Saud?


IMO it does.....like I said before look who we got the Malidves off of? Look where the 5th Fleet is ported out of.....We protect the Sunni of the UAE. Thats Kuwait, Oman, Yemen, or anything that is Sunni. There are no Shia kings or nobility running anything. They may get some sort of revenues. But they are in control of no Countries. I think that is the telltale sign. Moreover look at the Bedioun who attack the Sunni and or the Shia.

Mister D
08-03-2011, 01:35 PM
america tells the people to protest, they say overthrow your leader, they say we will help but then the help never comes. look at history, in iraq for many years america did nothing and saddam killed all who helped us during first war


Did America tell the Egyptians to protest? The Syrians? Lybians?

Mister D
08-03-2011, 01:36 PM
why not protect people? america is for democracy america inspires these revolution


Because Americans are not protecting the Shia except in Iraq....why do you think this is? Could it be due to those in Iraq being Babylonian? Not the Syrians, Not the Perisians/Iranians no other Shia are we protecting like we do the Sunni.


Could you elaborate on the Sunnio connection? Does it concern US ties to the House of Saud?


IMO it does.....like I said before look who we got the Malidves off of? Look where the 5th Fleet is ported out of.....We protect the Sunni of the UAE. Thats Kuwait, Oman, Yemen, or anything that is Sunni. There are no Shia kings or nobility running anything. They may get some sort of revenues. But they are in control of no Countries. I think that is the telltale sign. Moreover look at the Bedioun who attack the Sunni and or the Shia.


Do you think it is in our interest then to support the Shia? Other than for humanitarian reasosn that is.

Conley
08-03-2011, 01:44 PM
america tells the people to protest, they say overthrow your leader, they say we will help but then the help never comes. look at history, in iraq for many years america did nothing and saddam killed all who helped us during first war


Did America tell the Egyptians to protest? The Syrians? Lybians?


HR, I can see your point if in fact Iraqis who worked with the Americans were executed under Saddam. I don't know the details of it, but it wouldn't surprise me. However, like Mister D I am totally unaware of any U.S. involvement encouraging the riots in Egypt, Syria, or Libya. I am fairly certain our government would prefer stability in the region (for our own national interests) over what has transpired.

Mister D
08-03-2011, 02:50 PM
america tells the people to protest, they say overthrow your leader, they say we will help but then the help never comes. look at history, in iraq for many years america did nothing and saddam killed all who helped us during first war


Did America tell the Egyptians to protest? The Syrians? Lybians?


HR, I can see your point if in fact Iraqis who worked with the Americans were executed under Saddam. I don't know the details of it, but it wouldn't surprise me. However, like Mister D I am totally unaware of any U.S. involvement encouraging the riots in Egypt, Syria, or Libya. I am fairly certain our government would prefer stability in the region (for our own national interests) over what has transpired.


Exactly.

MMC
08-04-2011, 12:55 PM
The US takes advantage of the Use of NFP in order to talk about Democracy thru social programs advocating for rights of the individual. Womens rights. Aid for pregnancies etc etc. This is just one example as I am sure you could equate such with Children and hunger. Not only teaching the means of but why they should as well. We have been doing this in the M.E. for how only now? Aid comes under many names nowadays.

Also we should be at least telling the Sunni more than what we do when it comes to their eradication of the Shia. If Not eradication then Servitude.

hellraiser
08-04-2011, 03:41 PM
many times america has tried to start civil war all through history

then new leader is selected who likes the us

karzi, musharaf, iraqi leaders all are chosen by the us if the us doesnt want you there it happens

hellraiser
08-04-2011, 06:51 PM
israeli tanks attack palestine all the time also but it does not get reported.

it is not only muslims doing the killing

Mister D
08-04-2011, 07:26 PM
israeli tanks attack palestine all the time also but it does not get reported.

it is not only muslims doing the killing


If these attacks are not reported how did you find out about them?

Conley
08-04-2011, 07:38 PM
:D