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Peter1469
06-22-2014, 08:27 AM
Six Californias (http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-petition-drive-underway-to-split-california-into-six-states-20140621-story.html)

This is back in the news.


"California has become the worst managed state in the country," he told The Times this spring (http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-cap-california-20140414-column.html). "It just is too big and too ungovernable."
lRelated (http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-petition-drive-underway-to-split-california-into-six-states-20140621-story.html#)http://www.trbimg.com/img-53865a95/turbine/la-me-ln-northern-california-counties-secession-20140528/150/1x1 (http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-northern-california-counties-secession-20140528-story.html) L.A. Now (http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-northern-california-counties-secession-20140528-story.html)Two more Northern California counties may support breakaway state (http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-northern-california-counties-secession-20140528-story.html)See all related (http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-petition-drive-underway-to-split-california-into-six-states-20140621-story.html#)
8 (http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-petition-drive-underway-to-split-california-into-six-states-20140621-story.html#)

Draper, a political independent, needs about 808,000 signatures by July 18 to get the measure on the ballot in two years. He has said he has support from the Oregon border (http://articles.latimes.com/2014/mar/02/business/la-fi-hiltzik-20140228%20) (proposed state of Jefferson) to San Diego (South California), but the plan has been given almost no chance of success by some expert (http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_25195077/tim-drapers-plan-divide-california-into-6-states)s and ridiculed by Democrats and Republicans alike.

sachem
06-22-2014, 08:29 AM
I really don't care. Surprisingly. But I don't.

Peter1469
06-22-2014, 08:30 AM
I would say that I don't care if we could pass a law that forbade the federal government from bailing states out as they bankrupt themselves.

sachem
06-22-2014, 08:34 AM
I would say that I don't care if we could pass a law that forbade the federal government from bailing states out as they bankrupt themselves.Won't happen. Can't happen. Fact of life.

Peter1469
06-22-2014, 08:38 AM
Won't happen. Can't happen. Fact of life.

Which part? The feds bailing out Cali when they bankrupt themselves? That would be nice if it couldn't happen.

sachem
06-22-2014, 08:44 AM
Which part? The feds bailing out Cali when they bankrupt themselves? That would be nice if it couldn't happen.Sorry. A law passing that forbids that.

midcan5
06-22-2014, 08:54 AM
Americans today are such whiners it is sort of unreal, the right in America is destroying the unity of the states with their nonsense about secession and their dislike of the central institution of civic order and stability. One wishes the whiners would form their own nation away from more civilized people. Maybe a large tract of land in northern Canada could be purchased and all the anti-United States folks could live happily there. Good riddance to the useless whiners.

Peter1469
06-22-2014, 08:55 AM
Sorry. A law passing that forbids that.

That sucks...

Peter1469
06-22-2014, 08:57 AM
Aren't the real whiners the ones that bankrupt their state (or city) and then cry to the federal government to bail them out? No need to answer, Mid-Can't. The answer is yes.


Americans today are such whiners it is sort of unreal, the right in America is destroying the unity of the states with their nonsense about secession and their dislike of the central institution of civic order and stability. One wishes the whiners would form their own nation away from more civilized people. Maybe a large tract of land in northern Canada could be purchased and all the anti-United States folks could live happily there. Good riddance to the useless whiners.

Matty
06-22-2014, 09:03 AM
Americans today are such whiners it is sort of unreal, the right in America is destroying the unity of the states with their nonsense about secession and their dislike of the central institution of civic order and stability. One wishes the whiners would form their own nation away from more civilized people. Maybe a large tract of land in northern Canada could be purchased and all the anti-United States folks could live happily there. Good riddance to the useless whiners.



You you thinking the left are civilized people makes me laugh right out loud. They are nothing more than rabid, mouth breathing spittle spewing race baiting liars. They haven't told the truth in six long years. About anything. No wonder some states want secession.

Perianne
06-22-2014, 09:07 AM
Peter1469, you are an attorney. Can states, by vote, break off from the main state and form their own? Alyosha

Peter1469
06-22-2014, 09:09 AM
@Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10), you are an attorney. Can states, by vote, break off from the main state and form their own? @Alyosha (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=863)

Congress would have to approve any new state to the union. So if part of Cali wanted to split from Cali, if Congress didn't approve it, they would be an independent nation (unless the government stepped in like in 1861).

Alyosha
06-22-2014, 09:44 AM
@Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10), you are an attorney. Can states, by vote, break off from the main state and form their own? @Alyosha (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=863)

Yes, if they do it the right way.

Perianne
06-22-2014, 09:46 AM
I am just throwing this out there....

Perhaps California is too big and exerts too much influence on everyone else. Not like a monopoly, but sorta? Maybe it should be broken up for the good of the nation.

Peter1469
06-22-2014, 09:53 AM
I am just throwing this out there....

Perhaps California is too big and exerts too much influence on everyone else. Not like a monopoly, but sorta? Maybe it should be broken up for the good of the nation.

Or they are put on notice that they won't be bailed out. That would be fine with me too.

1751_Texan
06-22-2014, 10:13 AM
I wonder if the other states are going to be agreeing to "california" gaining 12 new senators?

I know the argument is these are six new states, but are they really? Does a mid-size mid-atlantic state have anything to have concern over 12 new westren senators?

How is the state divided? Who is the entity that divides the state? Im sure any entity would be as fair as posible, but should there be a 50/50 divide? Is it totally OK to have 4 conservative states compared to 2 liberal?

What happens to the representation in each state? The US house has held at 435 reps eventhough census growth should have allowed for more reps... Would California's current reps be divided between the six states or would new reps be added?

What of after the election, a democratic controled new state wanted to divide even futher to gain more senators.??? Should the newly formed democrat state of "Los Angeleston" be allowed to further divide into 3 more democratic states with 4 more democratic senators added?

Peter1469
06-22-2014, 10:16 AM
If this went through, each new state would have two senators. And representatives based on their population. Just like the constitution provides.

1751_Texan
06-22-2014, 10:19 AM
If this went through, each new state would have two senators. And representatives based on their population. Just like the constitution provides.


We stoped adding reps at 435...If the Six new californias get to add reps per capita, then why not other states...

If we actually added reps per the constitution/census there would be a 1000+ reps in the house.

Peter1469
06-22-2014, 10:22 AM
We stoped adding reps at 435...If the Six new californias get to add reps per capita, then why not other states...

If we actually added reps per the constitution/census there would be a 1000+ reps in the house.

The population of the 6 new states would be = to the population of California now.... Same number of representatives, just now from different states.

Perianne
06-22-2014, 10:24 AM
If they named one of the new states "Peritucky", or "Perilina", I would move there.

1751_Texan
06-22-2014, 10:28 AM
The population of the 6 new states would be = to the population of California now.... Same number of representatives, just now from different states.


Back in 1911, Congress froze its size at 435 members of the House of Representatives, and so the amount of people representative by each representative has grown extraordinarily. (Note that this is before we even had all the states (only 46), so the Reps continued to spread thinner.) The average district size now is about 700,000 people, which is a lot of people and opinions to accurately represent. Of course, if we followed Article the First to the letter, we would now have about 6300 representatives, which seems like a lot.
http://rootsoftheequation.wordpress.com/2012/09/17/how-many-representatives/



..."And representatives based on their population. Just like the constitution provides."


What is now and what the constitution provides is two different things.

Matty
06-22-2014, 10:29 AM
If they named one of the new states "Peritucky", or "Perilina", I would move there.
Prepare to be taxed to death. :)

Peter1469
06-22-2014, 10:29 AM
What is now and what the constitution provides is two different things.

This is the proper phrase to bold:


The population of the 6 new states would be = to the population of California now.... Same number of representatives, just now from different states.

1751_Texan
06-22-2014, 10:31 AM
This is the proper phrase to bold:

You have no way of knowing that would be the case...a case could be made the other way as well.

Your guess is as good as my question.

darroll
06-22-2014, 12:59 PM
You have to learn Spanish to watch this play out.