Hunting For a New Religion

[Spectre]

This Christianity thing just isn't going to work out for me, I'm not feeling it.

I don't know what being a 'Son of God' means when applied to Jesus, and I have NO clue about this Trinity thing, it makes zero sense to me.

I don't get how somebody dying on a cross 200 years ago is somehow supposed to help me with my salvation just by my assenting to a few things.

I don't say the Virgin Birth is impossible if God want it so, but I find it questionable. I don't think the miracles are any great barrier to belief if God wants them to be so, but I don't want my faith to hang on miracles.

The message and person of Christ are utterly compelling and profound. I see him as the last and maybe the greatest of the line of Hebrew Prophets.

I'm not an atheist or a materialist, atheism, materialism and agnosticism are even tougher to believe in than the Trinnity and the Virgin Birth for me.

Anyone else have this problem? I'm strongly drawn to Buddhist Mahayana schools like Zen, Tibetan, Tendai and others. But they are atheistic--although that is a controversial term when it comes to some Mahayana schools. I'm maybe even more drawn to various Vedantist schools of Hinduism, like Rananuja's and Shankara's.

What door do I open, what path do I walk?....

[Boris The Animal]

Thing is man was born basically as damaged goods. Why? Because of our sin nature. It is only natural for us to do wrong. This is why Christ came to Earth, to redeem mankind with His death on the Cross, and secure eternity once and for all with His Resurrection.

[Dr. Who]

This Christianity thing just isn't going to work out for me, I'm not feeling it.

I don't know what being a 'Son of God' means when applied to Jesus, and I have NO clue about this Trinity thing, it makes zero sense to me.

I don't get how somebody dying on a cross 200 years ago is somehow supposed to help me with my salvation just by my assenting to a few things.

I don't say the Virgin Birth is impossible if God want it so, but I find it questionable. I don't think the miracles are any great barrier to belief if God wants them to be so, but I don't want my faith to hang on miracles.

The message and person of Christ are utterly compelling and profound. I see him as the last and maybe the greatest of the line of Hebrew Prophets.

I'm not an atheist or a materialist, atheism, materialism and agnosticism are even tougher to believe in than the Trinnity and the Virgin Birth for me.

Anyone else have this problem? I'm strongly drawn to Buddhist Mahayana schools like Zen, Tibetan, Tendai and others. But they are atheistic--although that is a controversial term when it comes to some Mahayana schools. I'm maybe even more drawn to various Vedantist schools of Hinduism, like Rananuja's and Shankara's.

What door do I open, what path do I walk?....
The core of Christianity and Buddhism is love - love of self and love of all life. If you embrace love, you will find your path.

[KC]

I'm not an atheist or a materialist, atheism, materialism and agnosticism are even tougher to believe in than the Trinnity and the Virgin Birth for me.



Atheism usually does not always denote a belief; it often only refers to a lack of a belief. The statement "I do not believe in God" (negative atheism) is not the same as saying "I believe there is no God" (positive atheism).

[sachem]

This Christianity thing just isn't going to work out for me, I'm not feeling it.

I don't know what being a 'Son of God' means when applied to Jesus, and I have NO clue about this Trinity thing, it makes zero sense to me.

I don't get how somebody dying on a cross 200 years ago is somehow supposed to help me with my salvation just by my assenting to a few things.

I don't say the Virgin Birth is impossible if God want it so, but I find it questionable. I don't think the miracles are any great barrier to belief if God wants them to be so, but I don't want my faith to hang on miracles.

The message and person of Christ are utterly compelling and profound. I see him as the last and maybe the greatest of the line of Hebrew Prophets.

I'm not an atheist or a materialist, atheism, materialism and agnosticism are even tougher to believe in than the Trinnity and the Virgin Birth for me.

Anyone else have this problem? I'm strongly drawn to Buddhist Mahayana schools like Zen, Tibetan, Tendai and others. But they are atheistic--although that is a controversial term when it comes to some Mahayana schools. I'm maybe even more drawn to various Vedantist schools of Hinduism, like Rananuja's and Shankara's.

What door do I open, what path do I walk?....Well, try an older religion. 200 years ago is just too new, hasn't had time to ripen.

[GrassrootsConservative]

The occult is definitely the way to go. A coworker got me on it and I must say I've never seen such results before. The awesome part is that it can be whatever you make it, unlike other beliefs, where other people tell you what you think. Personal perception is EVERYTHING.

[zelmo1234]

well if you really believe that there is a God?

Then you don't get to make the rules he does!

And if that God says that Sin separates you from me, but I am sending my son to did on a cross for you and pay for those sins? And all you have to do is believe that he is my son, and that he die for your sins?

Then those are the rules. The miracles were not the reason to believe, but the proof of his origin of birth!

The trinity is a rather easy concept. God of course is Easy to see that he is divine. and then you have Jesus, fully man and fully God at the same time (the divinity is established here to) the heard part is the holy spirit, or the spirit that Jesus promised to send until his return. But when you think of this the Holy sprit is nothing more than the spirit of God? How could it be anything else but divine!

So my suggestion for you is to take your questions of faith to God in prayer! Even Billy Graham said that he went through times when his faith was tested! Why should you be any different! And then of course you need to stop listening with your head and open your heart!

And the hardest thing is, and I will have to pick on Grass Roots here! If there is a God, then you are not in charge and you can't have your religion custom made so it puts you as the God head and you get to do whatever you want!

If there is a God, then there is right and wrong, no matter what you think should be right and wrong

[Polecat]

If you're looking for an institution to tell you what you want to hear you can probably find one. They are all self serving in my opinion. Faith is a life long experience that you either nurture or ignore.

[Guerilla]

I would suggest an eastern religion. They are more philosophical without all the specifics. I view them more as a guide to life to make your own path than instructions like western religion seems to be, imo.

Taoism looks the coolest.

[Alyosha]

I think you should do mushrooms then decide. You'll see that it doesn't matter which one you choose, that any of them which embrace kindness is correct.

[Mr. Mensch]

Here is one you might consider.

http://www.laughingyogi.org/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FhAB91-EgA

[Mister D]

I suggest Spectre go to the market and get a new religion this weekend. I'm sure they 're having a July 4th Sale. All religions must go! lol Perhaps he can pick up some new boxer shorts and a steak for dinner while he is there.

I hate modernity.

[zelmo1234]

I think you should do mushrooms then decide. You'll see that it doesn't matter which one you choose, that any of them which embrace kindness is correct.

How would you reconcile that with eternity? IF in fact there is a God?

[Green Arrow]

I left Christianity for the religion of my ancestors. It chose me, I did not choose it.

[Alyosha]

How would you reconcile that with eternity? IF in fact there is a God?

Kindness with eternity? Read the 25th Chapter of Matthew by itself and disregard what ministers have said. You'll see that kindness IS the path.

[zelmo1234]

I left Christianity for the religion of my ancestors. It chose me, I did not choose it.

Wrong! you chose it! free will and all!

[Green Arrow]

Wrong! you chose it! free will and all!

You are wrong, sir. This is a matter of spiritualism.

[zelmo1234]

Kindness with eternity? Read the 25th Chapter of Matthew by itself and disregard what ministers have said. You'll see that kindness IS the path.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25&

It would appear to me that this is a case for knowing the lord and being a faithful servant!

And if you believe you would have to over come this?

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14

That is the problem with taking parts of the bible? Which part do you take!

[zelmo1234]

You are wrong, sir. This is a matter of spiritualism.

I am happy to be wrong in this case!

[Chris]

Atheism usually does not always denote a belief; it often only refers to a lack of a belief. The statement "I do not believe in God" (negative atheism) is not the same as saying "I believe there is no God" (positive atheism).

Agree, atheism is nonbelief.

But I imagine just like with anarchism spectre will continue to say it is what it is not.

[Spectre]

Agree, atheism is nonbelief.

But I imagine just like with anarchism spectre will continue to say it is what it is not.

Atheism SHOULD be non-belief.

But the normal crusading aggressiveness of atheism, especially lately, makes me regard it as just another ersatz religion.

[Alyosha]

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25&

It would appear to me that this is a case for knowing the lord and being a faithful servant!

How are you a faithful servant? By caring for the poor, the sick, widows, and orphans.




And if you believe you would have to over come this?

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14

That is the problem with taking parts of the bible? Which part do you take!

What is there to overcome? When you care for the poor you know and care for Jesus. I see no incompatibility. I see him saying to keep his commands of loving one another as he loved us (self-sacrifice even unto death), of caring for the sick, orphans, and poor. That is the only way that we can know Jesus.

Otherwise we're just goats professing some salvation without understanding what it is and he will say he knows us not.

[Spectre]

I suggest Spectre go to the market and get a new religion this weekend. I'm sure they 're having a July 4th Sale. All religions must go! lol Perhaps he can pick up some new boxer shorts and a steak for dinner while he is there.

I hate modernity.

Oh, believe me, I find your statement completely sympathetic!

But for me it's a poignant one, because I can't fake it, I can't grit my teeth and assent to something I no longer believe in, although I envy those who do and wish I possessed their secret or the act of Grace that enables them to believe.

This has been an unavoidable aspect of modernity, this collapse of 'the old religion' of Christianity as a universal binding agent of our civilization. Matthew Arnold's 'Dover Beach' is a great expression of this condition in its earlier stages.

In my case, I find myself very much in the position of my favourite 20th century writer, William Butler Yeats, as he wrote in his Autobiographies:

I am very religious, and deprived by Huxley and Tyndall, whom I detested, of the simple-minded religion of my childhood, I had made a new religion, an almost infallible church, of poetic tradition, of a fardel of stories, and of personages, and of emotions, inseparable from their first expression, passed on from generation to generation by poets and painters with some help form philosophers and theologians. I wished for a world where I could discover this tradition perpetually, and not in pictures and poems only, but in tiles around the chimney-piece and in the hangings that kept out the draught.’

[Chris]

Atheism SHOULD be non-belief.

But the normal crusading aggressiveness of atheism, especially lately, makes me regard it as just another ersatz religion.


True, some who call themselves atheists are really anti-theists who disbelieve. They annoy me as well. Disbelieve is just the flip side of belief, both are beliefs. Atheism is nonbelief.

[zelmo1234]

How are you a faithful servant? By caring for the poor, the sick, widows, and orphans.

What is there to overcome? When you care for the poor you know and care for Jesus. I see no incompatibility. I see him saying to keep his commands of loving one another as he loved us (self-sacrifice even unto death), of caring for the sick, orphans, and poor. That is the only way that we can know Jesus.

Otherwise we're just goats professing some salvation without understanding what it is and he will say he knows us not.

I think that if we are saved by works that would be the case? But we are saved by faith!

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%201:10-14

But in James, my favorite book, it tells us that while we are saved by Faith, Faith without works is a dead faith and will not bare fruit

[Guerilla]

well if you really believe that there is a God?

Then you don't get to make the rules he does!

And if that God says that Sin separates you from me, but I am sending my son to did on a cross for you and pay for those sins? And all you have to do is believe that he is my son, and that he die for your sins?

Then those are the rules. The miracles were not the reason to believe, but the proof of his origin of birth!

The trinity is a rather easy concept. God of course is Easy to see that he is divine. and then you have Jesus, fully man and fully God at the same time (the divinity is established here to) the heard part is the holy spirit, or the spirit that Jesus promised to send until his return. But when you think of this the Holy sprit is nothing more than the spirit of God? How could it be anything else but divine!

So my suggestion for you is to take your questions of faith to God in prayer! Even Billy Graham said that he went through times when his faith was tested! Why should you be any different! And then of course you need to stop listening with your head and open your heart!

And the hardest thing is, and I will have to pick on Grass Roots here! If there is a God, then you are not in charge and you can't have your religion custom made so it puts you as the God head and you get to do whatever you want!

If there is a God, then there is right and wrong, no matter what you think should be right and wrong

If there is a God, what makes Christian God different from other Gods? Why aren't they just different peoples interpretations of the same God? Afterall, isn't the most important rule of any great religion to love each other? Aren't all the religions trying to teach the same thing, possibly just in different ways?

My family is/was Christian and I used to ask a lot of questions about it. Lot's of stuff didn't make sense, and the answers I received didn't seem sufficient, just your average faith and blasphemy crap. But something that always made sense to me was the Golden Rule. I knew, if nothing else, that following the golden rule would basically encompass all the other rules and help me follow them too. To me, the golden rule was the only one that mattered, because it seemed like the place all other rules drew from.

And at the end of they day, aren't all religions just trying to teach us the Golden Rule? The idea to love each other and help each other and respect each other like neighbors and brothers so we can live in peace? Because that's the jist I've been getting.

[Mister D]

Oh, believe me, I find your statement completely sympathetic!

But for me it's a poignant one, because I can't fake it, I can't grit my teeth and assent to something I no longer believe in, although I envy those who do and wish I possessed their secret or the act of Grace that enables them to believe.

This has been an unavoidable aspect of modernity, this collapse of 'the old religion' of Christianity as a universal binding agent of our civilization. Matthew Arnold's 'Dover Beach' is a great expression of this condition in its earlier stages.

In my case, I find myself very much in the position of my favourite 20th century writer, William Butler Yeats, as he wrote in his Autobiographies:

I am very religious, and deprived by Huxley and Tyndall, whom I detested, of the simple-minded religion of my childhood, I had made a new religion, an almost infallible church, of poetic tradition, of a fardel of stories, and of personages, and of emotions, inseparable from their first expression, passed on from generation to generation by poets and painters with some help form philosophers and theologians. I wished for a world where I could discover this tradition perpetually, and not in pictures and poems only, but in tiles around the chimney-piece and in the hangings that kept out the draught.’

I found myself draw back toward tradition. What specifically is it that you no longer believe in. Or perhaps I should what exactly is causing the problem? I see a few things mentioned in the OP. Have you tried reading some theological works? I have. Christianity is actually a very cerebral religion. We have an impressive intellectual tradition.

[KC]

I found myself draw back toward tradition. What specifically is it that you no longer believe in. Or perhaps I should what exactly is causing the problem? I see a few things mentioned in the OP. Have you tried reading some theological works? I have. Christianity is actually a very cerebral religion. We have an impressive intellectual tradition.

Yes you do. Depending on your flavor of Christianity of course. Some of the newer apologetics are pretty sad.

[zelmo1234]

If there is a God, what makes Christian God different from other Gods? Why aren't they just different peoples interpretations of the same God? Afterall, isn't the most important rule of any great religion to love each other? Aren't all the religions trying to teach the same thing, possibly just in different ways?

My family is/was Christian and I used to ask a lot of questions about it. Lot's of stuff didn't make sense, and the answers I received didn't seem sufficient, just your average faith and blasphemy crap. But something that always made sense to me was the Golden Rule. I knew, if nothing else, that following the golden rule would basically encompass all the other rules and help me follow them too. To me, the golden rule was the only one that mattered, because it seemed like the place all other rules drew from.

And at the end of they day, aren't all religions just trying to teach us the Golden Rule? The idea to love each other and help each other and respect each other like neighbors and brothers so we can live in peace? Because that's the jist I've been getting.

I guess the thing that makes Christianity different? He is risen! Historically we know that Jesus was on earth, we know that he was put to death, and we know he is missing from he tomb! That is why every few years we have someone that claims to find the bones of Jesus!

That is the game changer.

As far as the golden rule, It is how we all should live, as far as salvation? That requires faith

[Mister D]

Yes you do. Depending on your flavor of Christianity of course. Some of the newer apologetics are pretty sad.

I last read Robert Wilkin's The Spirit of Early Christian Thought : Seeking the Face of God and The Christians as the Romans Saw Them. They helped give me insight into the development of concepts like the Trinity and the Incarnation.

[KC]

I last read Robert Wilkin's The Spirit of Early Christian Thought : Seeking the Face of God and The Christians as the Romans Saw Them. They helped give me insight into the development of concepts like the Trinity and the Incarnation.

Have you ever read anything by Fulton J Sheen? I used to read whatever I could get my hands on by him back in middle school.

[Dr. Who]

Oh, believe me, I find your statement completely sympathetic!

But for me it's a poignant one, because I can't fake it, I can't grit my teeth and assent to something I no longer believe in, although I envy those who do and wish I possessed their secret or the act of Grace that enables them to believe.

This has been an unavoidable aspect of modernity, this collapse of 'the old religion' of Christianity as a universal binding agent of our civilization. Matthew Arnold's 'Dover Beach' is a great expression of this condition in its earlier stages.

In my case, I find myself very much in the position of my favourite 20th century writer, William Butler Yeats, as he wrote in his Autobiographies:

I am very religious, and deprived by Huxley and Tyndall, whom I detested, of the simple-minded religion of my childhood, I had made a new religion, an almost infallible church, of poetic tradition, of a fardel of stories, and of personages, and of emotions, inseparable from their first expression, passed on from generation to generation by poets and painters with some help form philosophers and theologians. I wished for a world where I could discover this tradition perpetually, and not in pictures and poems only, but in tiles around the chimney-piece and in the hangings that kept out the draught.’
I think if you do some introspection you'll find that you are an angry person. You won't find any spiritual salvation in any religion as long as you are fostering anger. Once you let go of the anger, you will find your path.

[Mister D]

Have you ever read anything by Fulton J Sheen? I used to read whatever I could get my hands on by him back in middle school.

no, but I now plan to. I just looked him up on Amazon. So far I have read works by Hans Kung, Udo Schelle, Wilkins referred to above, and Joachim Peiper. not surprisingly, I have preferred Europeans.

[Frater]

Religion comes from the Latin religare, which means to reconnect (To God).

Religion has to be judged on the fruits it produces.

There is an outer teaching for the layperson, and an inner teaching for those who have an ear to hear.

There is more than one solution to a problem. See the sermon on the mount for several examples.

Now, Christianity is an iceberg, and those who pay the greater price for it find the more in it.

You cannot learn the mysteries of Christianity and Jesus from an organization. All of the outward teachings are in heavy allegory, misinterpretations and in many religions, outright lies. "...like all the Religions, All the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled; to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them ,and to draw them away from it, or would pervert it." -Albert Pike

God can and does appear and talk to man today, but only to those who He has sorely test to ensure they want Him, and not the things of world, not His rewards, and not an easy path.

The belief principle and emotionalism are only the surface. Without violating my oaths, written in the bible, in allegory, is a step by step method to oxygenate the blood until the heart stops beating (without the difficult and unnatural method of http://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/lib451.htm that bro. David Carradine used) to induce a near-death experience and find out the truth of the matter for oneself. It is as certain as scraping a match lights it. "I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily." "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:"

Faith is the SUBSTANCE of things not seen, etc.

Both blind belief and skepticism have to be transcended with the reason to make any spiritual progress, the fundamentalists run around in circles living like beasts.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor (http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/ebd/ebd298.htm#006), free and bond (http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/ebd/ebd062.htm#001), to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast (http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/ebd/ebd049.htm#001), or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast (http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/ebd/ebd049.htm#001): for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Vau vau vau = nail nail nail, 666. In a nutshell, someone who takes his outer teachings without practicing the inner, name (Jesus), mark (the cross/3 nails) or number in his right hand (actions) or forehead (beliefs) 666 shall be cast into the lake of fire (animal life.) "In secret have I said nothing (Ain, the vacuum of spirit.)

11 And when the king (http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/ebd/ebd219.htm#001) came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

13 Then said the king (http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/ebd/ebd219.htm#001) to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness (http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/ebd/ebd097.htm#008), there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (cast back into a physical body - the wedding garmet is total, complete, and perfect freedom from ALL attachments and desires through oneness with God, against which there is no comparison in fulfillment in anything soever - "Excepting in the case of an adept, man only arises to a glimmer of universal consciouness in love and orgasm, when the mind is blotted out." -Aleister Crowley)

"He that overcomes will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out" (into a body again.)

Even dying and coming back without the effort to change does nothing. "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still." Look at Judas's greed carrying over from when he was formerly Gehazi and betrayed his master's word, and what he repeated in a far worse manner. Mary Magdalene when she returned as Therese Nuemann, never ate, never drank, was studied by doctors, and the nazis could not go to her house no matter how many times she was ordered arrested.

All sin comes back as various wordly suffering, Jesus healed the man stricken with palsy by forgiving him his sins. His disciples asked who did sin, the man or his parents, that he was born blind. Jesus said this teaching was only for those who can receive it. That is why he taught in parables.




“All these things spoke Jesus unto the multitude in PARABLES; and without a parable spoke He not unto them.” Matt 13:34

“But without a PARABLE spoke He not unto them…” Mark 4:34

“This PARABLE spoke Jesus unto them; but they understood not what things they were which He spoke unto them.” John 10:6




“And when He was alone, they that were about Him with the twelve asked of Him the parable. And He said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God, but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables.

“That seeing they may see, and not perceived: and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted and their sins should be forgiven them. And He said unto them, Know ye not this parable? And how then will you know all parables?” Mark 4:10-13





“And the disciples came, and said unto Him, Why do you speak unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto YOU to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but unto them it is NOT given.”

And finally, see this near death experience http://www.living-martyr.org/doc5.html , this man was a Jew and died, saw people from many religions that God showed him and came back a Christian after he was almost dammed for being a Jew. My father because he put all the emphasis on Jesus and not the religious leaders had a pleasant near death experience but was no longer the Mormon he was when he passed to the other side, and came back a humble Christian also who had all of his questions about life, death, and the scriptures answered.