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Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 01:34 AM
Via Politico (http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/rand-paul-foreign-policy-108897.html):


If you had any doubts about how seriously some Republicans are taking the notion of a Rand Paul presidency, look at how far they're going to shut down his views on foreign policy.

In the past three days alone, Texas Gov. Rick Perry used a Washington Post op-ed to warn about the dangers of "isolationism" and describe Paul as "curiously blind" to growing threats in Iraq. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) accused the Kentucky senator on CNN of wanting a "withdrawal to fortress America." And former Vice President Dick Cheney declared at a POLITICO Playbook luncheon on Monday that "isolationism is crazy," while his daughter, Liz Cheney, said Paul "leaves something to be desired, in terms of national security policy."


The preemptive strikes suggest that many in GOP fear Paul is winning the foreign policy argument with the American people -- and that that could make him a formidable candidate in 2016. After all, second-tier presidential hopefuls don't usually get shouted down this way.

...

"Maybe [the Republican critics] are starting to realize that he could emerge as a leader of the party, and he'd be dangerous for the country," said New York Rep. Peter King, one of the GOP's most vocal foreign policy hawks. If Paul's "views go unchallenged, it's possible that people will become convinced they're valid foreign policy views, and they're not."
The Xl, this should help ease your fears with regards to Rand's solid non-interventionism.

Peter1469
07-15-2014, 06:22 AM
They only attack him because they are scared of him.

donttread
07-15-2014, 06:24 AM
Via Politico (http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/rand-paul-foreign-policy-108897.html):


@The Xl (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=865), this should help ease your fears with regards to Rand's solid non-interventionism.

If they push too far he could become LP ( which he really is anyway) and put them on the map. Either way the message that the mainstream Donkephant's wars and politics are failed will be heard

Libhater
07-15-2014, 06:35 AM
Via Politico (http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/rand-paul-foreign-policy-108897.html):


@The Xl (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=865), this should help ease your fears with regards to Rand's solid non-interventionism.

Yeah, he isn't any different than his old man in regards to foreign policy matters. I like both the Rands' on every other issue except foreign policy, for they have no foreign policy. That's my big beef with the Libertarians--feckless on foreign affairs--Obama lite in that respect.

Chris
07-15-2014, 07:36 AM
...Paul fired back, saying Perry's new glasses "haven’t altered his perception of the world, or allowed him to see it any more clearly" and calling the governor's op-ed a "fictionalized account" that mischaracterizes Paul's foreign policy views:


In fact, some of Perry’s solutions for the current chaos in Iraq aren’t much different from what I’ve proposed, something he fails to mention. His solutions also aren’t much different from President Barack Obama’s, something he also fails to mention. Because interestingly enough, there aren’t that many good choices right now in dealing with this situation in Iraq.

Perry says there are no good options. I’ve said the same thing. President Obama has said the same thing. So what are Perry’s solutions and why does he think they are so bold and different than anyone else’s?

@ Rand Paul: Rick Perry Is 'Dead Wrong' (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/14/rand-paul-rick-perry-_n_5583972.html)

Alyosha
07-15-2014, 07:48 AM
They hate Rand, ergo he rules.

zelmo1234
07-15-2014, 07:53 AM
While I do believe that Isolationism is Very dangerous.

I could vote for Rand.

The country is moving toward isolationism anyway so you can't fight the tide, They are tired of war.

Those under 40 were not taught what happens when evil is not confronted so they have to make that mistake again.

And lets face it, as a country we have too many people, as does the world. maybe another real war is exactly what is needed to reset the balance.

So while I do believe that this policy will lead to another 911 type attack or even worse, He has enough other qualities so that if he gets that nomination I could vote for him

1751_Texan
07-15-2014, 07:55 AM
They attack him because they fear him..but they also fear every other GOP candidate. You hammer the nail that sticks out.

Cthulhu
07-15-2014, 08:35 AM
They attack him because they fear him..but they also fear every other GOP candidate. You hammer the nail that sticks out.

Not really. Every other republican is just show business. Keeping the Paul's out of office is what unites them.

8251

texan
07-15-2014, 08:37 AM
His father is an isolationist but he is not. It's cute the way the libs paint this issue and tie him in, especially while watching the biggest isolationist president ever. BTW I won;t vote for one, but does this sound like an isolationist?

Sen. Paul Requests Foreign Relations Committee Action on Stand with Israel Act

Jul 9, 2014

WASHINGTON, D.C. - Sen. Rand Paul today issued a letter to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman, Sen. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.), and Ranking Member, Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.), requesting committee action on the Stand with Israel Act (http://www.paul.senate.gov/files/documents/DAV14485.pdf).

Earlier this week, Sen. Paul took to the Senate floor to ask for unanimous consent to pass the Stand with Israel Act, however Sen. Corker objected, citing the need to review the legislation in the Foreign Relations Committee.

The purpose of this bill is to cut off the flow of U.S. taxpayer dollars to the Palestinian Authority if it is allied with Hamas-the same Hamas that murdered two Israeli teenagers and one dual U.S.- Israeli teenager last week. Below is a copy of Sen. Paul's letter and video of his floor speech.


I have heard him say countless times if our interests are at risk he supports actions. He is just more honest about things than most. I am not saying I support him but I do like his honesty. Kind of like I hate Obama's honesty, he has turned out to be the biggest mouth waste of time in history. BUt you guys carry on with your mindless repeating of party talking points.

texan
07-15-2014, 08:42 AM
Off his website:

"We are already in two wars that we are not paying for. We are waging war across the Middle East on a credit card, one whose limit is rapidly approaching. And to involve our troops in further conflicts that hold no vital U.S. interests is wrong."

The Xl
07-15-2014, 09:42 AM
We'll see. It doesn't change some of the things he's said.

del
07-15-2014, 09:53 AM
an empty suit who will say anything to get elected

Mainecoons
07-15-2014, 09:58 AM
an empty suit who will say anything to get elected

You'll be voting for him, then? You do want to be consistent, don't you?

Bob
07-15-2014, 10:08 AM
So we intend to lose an election?

Oh well. This is the formula used to help Democrats win. I don't fear Paul. I like the man. He has no experience at government management. Do you want an untrained cop to show up in a time of need?

What about an untrained fireman?

Want to fly with some guy who read up on airplanes and now thinks that makes him a pilot?

Your standards might be this low but in general far too many in the public won't go for it on the republican side. And if you cater to Democrats, you know they expect more huge government.

I am sorry but we have seen this rodeo before. Best thing when you made a mistake in the past is to keep doing it from the looks of this forum.

Mainecoons
07-15-2014, 10:10 AM
How do you "win" an election by putting a McCain or Romney in the White House?

Unless in your mind a "win" is Democrat Lite.

Once again, what is the point? If you can't elect a government that will really return to the Constitution and reign in the oppression and red ink, isn't it really better to let things play out to the end faster so that a reset is possible?

Chris
07-15-2014, 10:17 AM
an empty suit who will say anything to get elected

That by definition is most any politician these days.

Bob
07-15-2014, 10:18 AM
How do you "win" an election by putting a McCain or Romney in the White House?

Unless in your mind a "win" is Democrat Lite.

Once again, what is the point? If you can't elect a government that will really return to the Constitution and reign in the oppression and red ink, isn't it really better to let things play out to the end faster so that a reset is possible?

I did not like McCain .... EVER. While I voted for him, this was my protest against Obama more than support for McCain.

I had the same complaint about McCain and even Obama that I have against either of the Pauls,

If I honestly thought Paul can manage government, I would give him a shot. I don't get why some posters accept that one can learn to be president on the job.

Obama proves that does not work.

Romney had a lot of experience. I tend to think he won't try again. Rob Portman uunderstands this. We have some awesome state Governors with proven success. If all you want is to not go to war, there are others who don't want war.

I agree with Cheney in that given the moments in 2001 that were faced, invading Iraq turned out to be the right move. It is not my mission fo free countries, but it was Bush's mission. At first he had the full faith and backing of the country.

Anyway, that is a lesson learned so I do not expect any other invasions, no matter who becomes president. Obama has decimated our military. I hear that officers are being let go while in other countries. We have 40 brigades of which 4 are combat ready. We have a tinker toy force. We have awesome naval and air power which is how we defend the country now.

Cthulhu
07-15-2014, 10:20 AM
So we intend to lose an election?

No Bob. We don't want to vote for evil again.



Oh well. This is the formula used to help Democrats win. I don't fear Paul. I like the man. He has no experience at government management. Do you want an untrained cop to show up in a time of need?

What about an untrained fireman?

Given how most police are trained, I think I would rather have my neighbor show up. Nobody hates firemen though - there is a reason for that too.



Want to fly with some guy who read up on airplanes and now thinks that makes him a pilot?

Your standards might be this low but in general far too many in the public won't go for it on the republican side. And if you cater to Democrats, you know they expect more huge government.

Under Bush the size of government grew insanely, just sayin'. Obama just took the torch and ran with it.



I am sorry but we have seen this rodeo before. Best thing when you made a mistake in the past is to keep doing it from the looks of this forum.

8252

That which your chastise the forum of, you yourself practice. How's that working out so far for the country?

del
07-15-2014, 10:38 AM
You'll be voting for him, then? You do want to be consistent, don't you?

you're cute when you think you have a point

Bob
07-15-2014, 11:07 AM
I believe under Bush that the Government grew, and it was a very prosperous time, by all of 200,000 workers.

And he also needed bodies due to the wars and the tragedy of 911.
I don't fault Bush for those few workers.

I planned to locate my government numbers but ran across this Forbes site.

If size of Government is all you worry about, you are in good hands with Obama.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatton/2013/01/24/the-growth-of-the-federal-government-1980-to-2012/

zelmo1234
07-15-2014, 11:09 AM
Not really. Every other republican is just show business. Keeping the Paul's out of office is what unites them.

8251

Priceless!

zelmo1234
07-15-2014, 11:12 AM
an empty suit who will say anything to get elected

Oh! I agree that is exactly what OBAMA is?

On the other hand, Rand Paul has been trying to get things done, Nothing that will reduce the size or more importantly the POWER of government is going to come out of Dingy Harry's Senate.

And the President would never consider anything that has to do with personal responsibility!

So he is stuck between a rock and a hard place

zelmo1234
07-15-2014, 11:16 AM
you're cute when you think you have a point

Can you provide the wonderful accomplishments that Obama has done that would prove he is not an empty suit.

What leadership skills has he show to actually bring the nation together and get us on the right track?

Bob
07-15-2014, 11:18 AM
Let's use the TRUTH METER on Rand Paul
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/rand-paul/


Rand Paul's website (http://www.paul.senate.gov/)
Our Rand Paul feeds
http://static.politifact.com/images/icon-rssbug-12.gif (http://www.politifact.com/feeds/statementsby/rand-paul/) A feed of statements by Paul (http://www.politifact.com/feeds/statementsby/rand-paul/)
http://static.politifact.com/images/icon-rssbug-12.gif (http://www.politifact.com/feeds/about/rand-paul/) A feed of stories mentioning Paul (http://www.politifact.com/feeds/about/rand-paul/)
Paul's statements by rulingClick on the ruling to see all of Paul's statements for that ruling.

True (http://www.politifact.com/personalities/rand-paul/statements/byruling/true/)
6 (25%)(6)
Mostly True (http://www.politifact.com/personalities/rand-paul/statements/byruling/mostly-true/)
6 (25%)(6)
Half True (http://www.politifact.com/personalities/rand-paul/statements/byruling/half-true/)
4 (17%)(4)
Mostly False (http://www.politifact.com/personalities/rand-paul/statements/byruling/barely-true/)
1 (4%)(1)
False (http://www.politifact.com/personalities/rand-paul/statements/byruling/false/)
6 (25%)(6)
Pants on Fire (http://www.politifact.com/personalities/rand-paul/statements/byruling/pants-fire/)
1 (4%)(1)


Republican from KentuckyRand Paul is a U.S. senator from Kentucky. A physician by trade, Paul defeated Democrat Jack Conway in 2010 for the seat formerly held by Sen. Jim Bunning.

Recent statements involving Rand Paul

zelmo1234
07-15-2014, 11:22 AM
I know that some are still stuck in the Republican/Democrat choice.

But I could vote for Paul because he is a small government guy!

I can't vote for Bush, Romney, Christie, and the other big government Republicans. While all are very fine people, I do not find them to be and improvement over Democrat!

So I have to vote for someone that if elected would make the changes that need to happen.

NOW MY PREFERENCE IS A GOV THAT HAS TUREND AROUND A STATE! AND WORKED WITH THE OPPOSITION. OHIO, WISCONSIN, AND NORTHDAKOTA HAVE WONDERFUL OPTIONS

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 11:31 AM
Bob says we will lose unless we run a governor. Mitt Romney was a governor who lost to a senator.

I think we're okay picking Rand.

Mainecoons
07-15-2014, 11:32 AM
Me too. Let's face it, a candidate who can get Green and I to agree on him must be doing something right since socialists and libertarians normally mix like oil and water.

:grin:

zelmo1234
07-15-2014, 11:35 AM
Bob says we will lose unless we run a governor. Mitt Romney was a governor who lost to a senator.

I think we're okay picking Rand.


part of what scares me a little is the fact that he is a Senator. NOT BECAUSE HE CAN'T DO THE JOB! But because Obama has been a total and complete failure by any stretch of the Imagination!

It could turn some people off.

I would of course still vote for Rand. But he would not be my first choice for President.

HOWEVER HE IS MY FIRST CHOICE FOR VP

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 11:40 AM
Let's use the TRUTH METER on Rand Paul
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/rand-paul/


Rand Paul's website (http://www.paul.senate.gov/)
Our Rand Paul feeds
http://static.politifact.com/images/icon-rssbug-12.gif (http://www.politifact.com/feeds/statementsby/rand-paul/) A feed of statements by Paul (http://www.politifact.com/feeds/statementsby/rand-paul/)
http://static.politifact.com/images/icon-rssbug-12.gif (http://www.politifact.com/feeds/about/rand-paul/) A feed of stories mentioning Paul (http://www.politifact.com/feeds/about/rand-paul/)
Paul's statements by ruling

Click on the ruling to see all of Paul's statements for that ruling.

True (http://www.politifact.com/personalities/rand-paul/statements/byruling/true/)
6 (25%)
(6)
Mostly True (http://www.politifact.com/personalities/rand-paul/statements/byruling/mostly-true/)
6 (25%)
(6)
Half True (http://www.politifact.com/personalities/rand-paul/statements/byruling/half-true/)
4 (17%)
(4)
Mostly False (http://www.politifact.com/personalities/rand-paul/statements/byruling/barely-true/)
1 (4%)
(1)
False (http://www.politifact.com/personalities/rand-paul/statements/byruling/false/)
6 (25%)
(6)
Pants on Fire (http://www.politifact.com/personalities/rand-paul/statements/byruling/pants-fire/)
1 (4%)
(1)

Republican from Kentucky

Rand Paul is a U.S. senator from Kentucky. A physician by trade, Paul defeated Democrat Jack Conway in 2010 for the seat formerly held by Sen. Jim Bunning.

Recent statements involving Rand Paul



Let's see the Truth Meter on Mitt Romney (http://www.politifact.com/personalities/mitt-romney/)!

30 True
33 Mostly True
58 Half True
33 Mostly False
32 False
19 Pants On Fire

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 11:56 AM
If we followed Bob's "only governors" rule, we would never have had most of our Presidents, including George Washington, John Adams, James Madison, John Quincy Adams, Andrew Jackson, Zachary Taylor, Millard Fillmore, Franklin Pierce, James Buchanan, Abraham Lincoln, Ulysses S. Grant, James A. Garfield, Chester A. Arthur, Benjamin Harrison, William Howard Taft, Warren Harding, Herbert Hoover, Harry S. Truman, Dwight D. Eisenhower, John F. Kennedy, Lyndon B. Johnson, Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, George H.W. Bush, and Barack Obama.

Sure, some of those were bad and I'd be more than happy to not have them, but the vast majority were actually fairly decent to pretty good.

Bob
07-15-2014, 12:10 PM
That which your chastise the forum of, you yourself practice. How's that working out so far for the country?

How so?

What happened when the last Libertarian president took office?

Oh, that's right, none has taken office.

Rand Paul runs as a republican. I said over and over, I like the man. Even when he is not telling the truth, he still is okay.

Bob
07-15-2014, 12:12 PM
If we followed Bob's "only governors" rule, we would never have had most of our Presidents, including George Washington, John Adams, James Madison, John Quincy Adams, Andrew Jackson, Zachary Taylor, Millard Fillmore, Franklin Pierce, James Buchanan, Abraham Lincoln, Ulysses S. Grant, James A. Garfield, Chester A. Arthur, Benjamin Harrison, William Howard Taft, Warren Harding, Herbert Hoover, Harry S. Truman, Dwight D. Eisenhower, John F. Kennedy, Lyndon B. Johnson, Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, George H.W. Bush, and Barack Obama.

Sure, some of those were bad and I'd be more than happy to not have them, but the vast majority were actually fairly decent to pretty good.

Hooo buoy

Good in what way?

I voted for JFK so feel obliged to explain him. His death is why he is admired. But as a president, he really did not do much. If you count engage in hostile talk with the Soviets, then he did a lot. I think he was very close to nuclear war.

The idea I propose is very elementary.

When you examine a track record, should you look at votes in come committee or should you look at the task of governing and examine that and then decide?

I give many examples.

Who would wish the doctor to have been the receptionist in the doctor office then suddenly be promoted to doctor?

Who wants an auto mechanic that reads hot rod magazine to repair their auto but has never repaired a car?

You constantly demand highly trained and excellent people to serve you.

Now we learn presidents are exempt?

The Xl
07-15-2014, 12:12 PM
How so?

What happened when the last Libertarian president took office?

Oh, that's right, none has taken office.

Rand Paul runs as a republican. I said over and over, I like the man. Even when he is not telling the truth, he still is okay.

Right, none have even taken office. Which is why all we ever get are progressive Republicans and liberals who generally act the same way.

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 12:15 PM
Hooo buoy

Good in what way?

You're seriously asking how George Washington was a good President? Or James Madison, the guy who wrote the constitution?

Bob
07-15-2014, 12:18 PM
Oh is Mitt Romney running? Are we evaluating a man who is not running?

Bob
07-15-2014, 12:21 PM
You're seriously asking how George Washington was a good President? Or James Madison, the guy who wrote the constitution?

George Washington managed his army for about 8 years. As president, what remarkable thing do you think he did?

James Madison and Washington ran small operations. This fits the peter principle. We have no idea how they would have managed the gigantic behemoth of today.

Nostalgia for the past is of little use in today's world.

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 12:22 PM
George Washington managed his army for about 8 years. As president, what remarkable thing do you thinjk he did?

James Madison and Washington ran small operations. This fits the peter principle. We have no idea how they would have managed the gigantic behemoth of today.

Nostalgia for the past is of little use in today's world.

Government is government, Bob.

Cthulhu
07-15-2014, 12:23 PM
How so?

What happened when the last Libertarian president took office?

Oh, that's right, none has taken office.

Rand Paul runs as a republican. I said over and over, I like the man. Even when he is not telling the truth, he still is okay.

See: Founding Fathers. I wouldn't exactly classify them as a modern day democrat or republican. The country was founded by those with a libertarian mindset.

Bob
07-15-2014, 12:24 PM
Right, none have even taken office. Which is why all we ever get are progressive Republicans and liberals who generally act the same way.

I won't get the chance since I am nearly 76 but it would sure be a hoot for me to get back to you guys when you reach my age to find out how it worked out for you.

I would expect you would report that in the next 50 years, no libertarian won. Besides Rand Paul is not part of the Libertarian party. Matter of fact, he is a registered Republican.

What you people don't understand is I am 100 percent pro Libertarian. I happen to live in the real world.

PolWatch
07-15-2014, 12:27 PM
George Washington managed his army for about 8 years. As president, what remarkable thing do you think he did?

James Madison and Washington ran small operations. This fits the peter principle. We have no idea how they would have managed the gigantic behemoth of today.

Nostalgia for the past is of little use in today's world.

Nostalgia for the past of little use...does that include the Constitution? Bill of Rights? Weren't those created for 'small operations' and not the behemoth of today?

Bob
07-15-2014, 12:27 PM
See: Founding Fathers. I wouldn't exactly classify them as a modern day democrat or republican. The country was founded by those with a libertarian mindset.

That's right. However how has that worked out given that is true?

What confuses me about the Libertarian party is it really does not wish to manage government but to play a role in returning to 1800. What takes place when one becomes the establishment, is the sheets come off and we see things as they really are and not how we wish they might be. I understand that 80 percent of the LDS are republicans.

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 12:28 PM
Bob's right, fuck the nostalgia of the past. Who needs to return to the founders' vision of America and the constitution?

Bob
07-15-2014, 12:30 PM
Nostalgia for the past of little use...does that include the Constitution? Bill of Rights? Weren't those created for 'small operations' and not the behemoth of today?

We are discussing the problems of George Washington vs today.

The reason I so love the founding documents is that they are timeless. Inclusive and apt for any period.

The kinks for the most part are worked out. It needs some major tweaks, such as removing the 16th and 17th amendment but that is within reach.

So, summed up, I believe those documents fit all sizes of government.

Chris
07-15-2014, 12:31 PM
I won't get the chance since I am nearly 76 but it would sure be a hoot for me to get back to you guys when you reach my age to find out how it worked out for you.

I would expect you would report that in the next 50 years, no libertarian won. Besides Rand Paul is not part of the Libertarian party. Matter of fact, he is a registered Republican.

What you people don't understand is I am 100 percent pro Libertarian. I happen to live in the real world.


I reckon 50 years from now we'll still have a progressive republican or democratic and we'll all be working for if not wards of the state.

zelmo1234
07-15-2014, 12:32 PM
George Washington managed his army for about 8 years. As president, what remarkable thing do you think he did?

James Madison and Washington ran small operations. This fits the peter principle. We have no idea how they would have managed the gigantic behemoth of today.

Nostalgia for the past is of little use in today's world.

If he did nothing more it would still make him one of the Greatest Presidents

He left office after 2 terms.

Bob
07-15-2014, 12:35 PM
Bob's right, fuck the nostalgia of the past. Who needs to return to the founders' vision of America and the constitution?

WOW, I too want to return to the founding vision. It was not what we have today nor will it match Pauls vision.

I think a parallel to today can be the new born Elephant. See how cute the little thing is. George Washington had the baby elephant. We have the full grown version today. This is a vastly different animal in the grown up version.

Tiger cubs are cute. Adults kill humans.

George Washington was not tested on a government this enormous, this vast in reach and scale of operations.

Madison would perhaps have shunned running a thing this enormous.

Some of you people have resorted to the argument of the ridiculous in order to pretty much shut down my arguments. We will see how well that worked for you.

monk
07-15-2014, 12:37 PM
I won't get the chance since I am nearly 76 but it would sure be a hoot for me to get back to you guys when you reach my age to find out how it worked out for you.

I would expect you would report that in the next 50 years, no libertarian won. Besides Rand Paul is not part of the Libertarian party. Matter of fact, he is a registered Republican.

What you people don't understand is I am 100 percent pro Libertarian. I happen to live in the real world.
:cry:
Ron Paul was the closest candidate that I'll ever come close to agreeing with almost 90% of the time.
Rand?? Well he's not as good as his dad but he's not watered down enough to be the Rep. candidate in our next election.
Alas, I'll probably end up voting Rep. and settle for the lesser of the two evils, just like I always do.

Bob
07-15-2014, 12:37 PM
If he did nothing more it would still make him one of the Greatest Presidents

He left office after 2 terms.

Not counting his war cunning, where he led an army for 8 years just to defeat a far off empire, as president what did he do?

Bob
07-15-2014, 12:39 PM
:cry:
Ron Paul was the closest candidate that I'll ever come close to agreeing with almost 90% of the time.
Rand?? Well he's not as good as his dad but he's not watered down enough to be the Rep. candidate in our next election.
Alas, I'll probably end up voting Rep. and settle for the lesser of the two evils, just like I always do.

There you go. You confirmed my point. And Ron flipped all over. First a republican then hell no, a Libertarian then hell no a Republican again.

Actually libertarians should admire republicans for the fact they do the best they can do with the nonsense that DC is of today.

Libhater
07-15-2014, 12:39 PM
Bob's right, fuck the nostalgia of the past. Who needs to return to the founders' vision of America and the constitution?

I see your socialist underpinnings are kicking into high anti American gear.

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 12:39 PM
Not counting his war cunning, where he led an army for 8 years just to defeat a far off empire, as president what did he do?

Besides keep the country together, you mean?

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 12:40 PM
I see your socialist underpinnings are kicking into high anti American gear.

You don't understand sarcasm, do you?

Bob
07-15-2014, 12:42 PM
I reckon 50 years from now we'll still have a progressive republican or democratic and we'll all be working for if not wards of the state.

Sadly, I agree. I don't notice any trend that promotes the Libertarian party. Why won't they join up with those who call themselves tea party people? Why do some think Rand Paul is a Libertarian?

Q of the day

What makes Rand Paul, a Republican ,fodder for the Libertarians?

Chris
07-15-2014, 12:44 PM
Sadly, I agree. I don't notice any trend that promotes the Libertarian party. Why won't they join up with those who call themselves tea party people? Why do some think Rand Paul is a Libertarian?

Q of the day

What makes Rand Paul, a Republican ,fodder for the Libertarians?

Rand wrote "The Tea Party Goes to Washington." It's actually a good read.

Bob
07-15-2014, 12:45 PM
Besides keep the country together, you mean?

Exactly. What were his policies. What remarkable things did he accomplish as president.

We are not including his war with England. Though he won, many times he almost lost. I don't so much blame him given the state of his troops non experience but he struggled just to win. In such a small battle field, 8 years is an awful long time. Gen. Tommy Franks captured and took out a much larger military in days, not years.

Don
07-15-2014, 12:46 PM
http://www.randpac.com/

Bob
07-15-2014, 12:47 PM
Rand wrote "The Tea Party Goes to Washington." It's actually a good read.

I don't buy nearly as many books now as i once did. I have many books yet to study.

I will check the public library. As much as this area is in the hands of Democrats, I shall be fortunate if they have his book.

zelmo1234
07-15-2014, 12:48 PM
Not counting his war cunning, where he led an army for 8 years just to defeat a far off empire, as president what did he do?

Like I said, leaving office after 2 terms was huge,

But I believe that he did something with neutrality in the French Revolution

I also think that he did a lot to bring the states into agreement over the federal government.

Remember President in Washington's time was a position of Manager, they had very little power

Even congress had little power, the Senators kept the power base of the nation in the States where it belonged.

But Washington could have been King! And he turned the position down and faded away!

Thus with this was most likely the first world leader to do so!

Bob
07-15-2014, 12:51 PM
Government is government, Bob.

Just any old person can run it. I understand now your point of view.

Perianne
07-15-2014, 12:51 PM
George Washington did what he did in the time and era in which he lived. It is unfair to compare him in today's political world.

I am like the others. Simply the fact that he set the standard by choosing to leave office after two terms helps make him a great President. I wish that rotten FDR would have left after two.

Chris
07-15-2014, 12:52 PM
I don't buy nearly as many books now as i once did. I have many books yet to study.

I will check the public library. As much as this area is in the hands of Democrats, I shall be fortunate if they have his book.


Yea, it's not that good, but does capture the spirit of the tea parties' advocacy for less taxes, smaller govertment and more liberty.

Rand is libertarian in a Hayekian sense, his father was more a Rothbardian, though by no means an anarchist.

Ravens Fan
07-15-2014, 12:54 PM
Not counting his war cunning, where he led an army for 8 years just to defeat a far off empire, as president what did he do?

Well, first off he refused the title of "king" and would not choose a political party so as not to further divide the country.

He set the pace for all presidents since him as far as how the office is run. For example having a cabinet and secretaries of the cabinet.

He played a major role in deciding where the nations capitol would be.

He played a major role in establishing the Judicial and Executive branch of the Federal Government, including creating the Supreme court.

He signed into law many things that still are important today, such as the postmaster general, military acts, copyright laws, etc...

And, after all that, he set the precedent of a two term limit to the presidency. Authough he could have easily remained in the position until death.

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 12:55 PM
Just any old person can run it. I understand now your point of view.

Anyone with the right philosophy, yes.

Perianne
07-15-2014, 12:56 PM
And, after all that, he set the precedent of a two term limit to the presidency. Authough he could have easily remained in the position until death.

I would bet that bastard Lincoln would have stayed on and on and on.

Perianne
07-15-2014, 12:56 PM
Just any old person can run it. I understand now your point of view.

Bob, wouldn't you vote for me for President?

Ravens Fan
07-15-2014, 01:01 PM
Exactly. What were his policies. What remarkable things did he accomplish as president.

We are not including his war with England. Though he won, many times he almost lost. I don't so much blame him given the state of his troops non experience but he struggled just to win. In such a small battle field, 8 years is an awful long time. Gen. Tommy Franks captured and took out a much larger military in days, not years.

Christopher Columbus was none too special either. I mean it took him what 6 months to cross the atlantic? now days ships can do it in a matter of days.

PolWatch
07-15-2014, 01:03 PM
Christopher Columbus was none too special either. I mean it took him what 6 months to cross the atlantic? now days ships can do it in a matter of days.

ole Chris didn't even end up where he was headed....lucky us

Ravens Fan
07-15-2014, 01:03 PM
I would bet that bastard Lincoln would have stayed on and on and on.

He may have, but I think he was a dead man either way. If Booth hadn't done it somebody would have.

Chris
07-15-2014, 01:06 PM
ole Chris didn't even end up where he was headed....lucky us

Why I'm right here--oh Chris Columbus, doh.

Ravens Fan
07-15-2014, 01:16 PM
Exactly. What were his policies. What remarkable things did he accomplish as president.

We are not including his war with England. Though he won, many times he almost lost. I don't so much blame him given the state of his troops non experience but he struggled just to win. In such a small battle field, 8 years is an awful long time. Gen. Tommy Franks captured and took out a much larger military in days, not years.

Also, at the time, just how many colonies of the great British Empire had even tried, much less succeeded in gaining their independence? The King had enormous amounts of troops and supplies, going against mere civilians. It may have taken a while, but General Washington created ways of fighting and spying/misinformation techniques that won the war. Plus they are still taught today at West Point.

texan
07-15-2014, 01:16 PM
One could make an argument that he sould have been shot just for wearing that hat.

Peter1469
07-15-2014, 01:16 PM
I would rather fill the House and Senate with majorities of Pauls.

Regarding domestic matter, the president doesn't have much real power.

Bob
07-15-2014, 01:17 PM
Like I said, leaving office after 2 terms was huge,

But I believe that he did something with neutrality in the French Revolution

I also think that he did a lot to bring the states into agreement over the federal government.

Remember President in Washington's time was a position of Manager, they had very little power

Even congress had little power, the Senators kept the power base of the nation in the States where it belonged.

But Washington could have been King! And he turned the position down and faded away!

Thus with this was most likely the first world leader to do so!

As president, let's all examine his actual role in events as president.

As Zelmo states, he did nothing at all for France. But he also did nothing at all for England, Germany, Italy and hell, the rest of the world.

He is given credit for pushing for the Bill of Rights. That in my opinion is awesome.
He fought Americans in the Whiskey Rebellion. A system of unfair taxes I might add.
He bolstered the treasury with a national bank.
He settled Jays Treaty.
While he took the power of Government over, he made it clear he was no king.

That is pretty much what he did.

This is one reason I rank Ronald Reagan so much higher. Reagan had as a task the de fanging of the Soviets if not the dismemberment of that empire. Gorbachev chided a reporter who put Reagan down and told the reporter that Reagan was great and was responsible for removing the arms race.

I thank G. Washington since he and a militia of rag tag people, simple farmers for the most part, took on England and with the navy of France at the end, prevailed. I have been to the spot he took the surrender of the English General at Yorktown. I don't merely study history, I visit where it happened and spent
time studying what he had to deal with at the time.

Madison has come up. This will be confined to his duty as president and what he accomplished.
1. Madison asked for permission to go to war with England.
2. He was reelected despite our defeats with him as president.
3. He fled Washington as the Brits burned the White House.
4. He finally beat England in that war.
5. To pay for the war, he raised tariffs which was contrary to his Jeffersonian principles.
That sums him up.

Bob
07-15-2014, 01:19 PM
I would rather fill the House and Senate with majorities of Pauls.

Regarding domestic matter, the president doesn't have much real power.

That is a good idea. Were we to have the Congress filled with his type, things would be very good. We do have others like him so let's give them credit as well.

Bob
07-15-2014, 01:21 PM
Also, at the time, just how many colonies of the great British Empire had even tried, much less succeeded in gaining their independence? The King had enormous amounts of troops and supplies, going against mere civilians. It may have taken a while, but General Washington created ways of fighting and spying/misinformation techniques that won the war. Plus they are still taught today at West Point.

Oh he did very well all things considered winning the war. Sure it took him almost a decade but in the end he prevailed.

The Xl
07-15-2014, 01:21 PM
I won't get the chance since I am nearly 76 but it would sure be a hoot for me to get back to you guys when you reach my age to find out how it worked out for you.

I would expect you would report that in the next 50 years, no libertarian won. Besides Rand Paul is not part of the Libertarian party. Matter of fact, he is a registered Republican.

What you people don't understand is I am 100 percent pro Libertarian. I happen to live in the real world.

Rand isn't a libertarian like his pop was, I agree with you there.

There will be no libertarian if this generation deems it so. What happened in the past doesn't have to have a bearing on the future. While their is a majority leftist vibe with the 18-35 year olds of the country, the next biggest group are libertarians, and that block is growing.

Modern day conservatism will die before libertarianism does, because it offers the same message as the left, without the diversity and feel good rhetoric.

PolWatch
07-15-2014, 01:24 PM
thank you Bob...you brought up a subject that probably is the only issue that has a chance of uniting everyone on the board! Let's stage another whiskey rebellion...I know my husband will sign up!

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 01:43 PM
I'll add more input in this thread after I visit my eye doctor. I can't believe I'm actually reading Bob argue that Washington wasn't that great and didn't do that much.

Bob
07-15-2014, 01:47 PM
Anyone with the right philosophy, yes.

Give the young credit since they have but a short time to become naive, and a long time to collect wisdom. They will too get wisdom if they work at it.

The idea any person can run the Federal Government over just philosophies is silly at best and really lame at worst.

Check out Carter for proof.

The reason why Ike worked out is he was not great as a war fighter, such as Patton was, but a superb manager and coordinator of a vast military machine. And he had learned the tricks of DC.

Still let list his accomplishments.

1. He was very popular.
2. A knock on him was his lax work habits.
3. He was said to be detached as a manager.
4. He was accused of baffling speeches.
5. He had rich men in his cabinet and was accused of allowing them full reign.
6. Some blamed him for letting Sen. Joe McCarthy run loose.
7. He stockpiled nuclear weapons and promised massive retaliation against the Soviets then in the Hungarian uprising in 1956 did nothing to help them beat the Soviets.
8. Ike brought the Korean war to a stand off since the war is not officially over.
9. He concluded several alliance agreements and cut the defense budget.
10. His ME doctrine promised aid to them to fight the Soviets.
11. When England, France and Israel invaded the Suez Canal in 1956, he condemned them and they were forced to back down.
12. 2 years later, he sent Marines to Lebanon.
13. He engaged in additional aid to the fighting in the South of Vietnam. (Truman actually aided them first)
14. He expanded Social Security, created the department of health, education and welfare.
15. Spent billions on public housing and freeways.
16. He came out strong for religious devotion.
17. He deeply regretted Brown v board of education by the Supreme Court
18. Democrats controlled congress for all but 2 years of his two terms.
19. He suffered the loss of a US spy plane shot down in Russia.

Make of that record as you will.

Bob
07-15-2014, 01:49 PM
I'll add more input in this thread after I visit my eye doctor. I can't believe I'm actually reading Bob argue that Washington wasn't that great and didn't do that much.

That will give you time to dream things up.

I argue he did fairly well as a General of the army. That as president, he did little of note. I used a good source to document what he did.

Bob
07-15-2014, 01:51 PM
thank you Bob...you brought up a subject that probably is the only issue that has a chance of uniting everyone on the board! Let's stage another whiskey rebellion...I know my husband will sign up!

I can't stand how the government treats the production of such beverages.

The Feds dominate this production field. They tax them with no mercy.

Do you people realize that when you grow vegetables at home, that is income?

Cthulhu
07-15-2014, 01:51 PM
That's right. However how has that worked out given that is true?

For the first little while it worked out great. Until the two party behemoth became established. We're watching the decay unfold in front of us.



What confuses me about the Libertarian party is it really does not wish to manage government but to play a role in returning to 1800.

False. They simple want the freedoms backs. Nobody is saying get rid of technology Bob.


What takes place when one becomes the establishment, is the sheets come off and we see things as they really are and not how we wish they might be. I understand that 80 percent of the LDS are republicans.

Just because a person is LDS doesn't mean they are smart or vote for what is best.

The Xl
07-15-2014, 01:51 PM
I'll add more input in this thread after I visit my eye doctor. I can't believe I'm actually reading Bob argue that Washington wasn't that great and didn't do that much.

In before Reagan is teh best eva

Bob
07-15-2014, 01:55 PM
Rand isn't a libertarian like his pop was, I agree with you there.

There will be no libertarian if this generation deems it so. What happened in the past doesn't have to have a bearing on the future. While their is a majority leftist vibe with the 18-35 year olds of the country, the next biggest group are libertarians, and that block is growing.

Modern day conservatism will die before libertarianism does, because it offers the same message as the left, without the diversity and feel good rhetoric.

Well, take Obama care for instance. Do you honestly believe it will be cancelled? This is in the past yet we suffer it today.

We must relight the vision of the Libertarians but once I studied the platform, i lost a lot of hope.

Government is not like popping a balloon. Merely wishing for change does not cause it to happen. Forces in DC are a lot more mighty than posters here appear to believe.

They know how to stop things dead in it's tracks.

Say Paul wins. He faces Harry Reid. End of story.

Chris
07-15-2014, 01:57 PM
For the first little while it worked out great. Until the two party behemoth became established. We're watching the decay unfold in front of us.



False. They simple want the freedoms backs. Nobody is saying get rid of technology Bob.



Just because a person is LDS doesn't mean they are smart or vote for what is best.



Yes, apply classical liberal principles of liberty to today. It's not a return to yesteryear.

The Xl
07-15-2014, 01:58 PM
Well, take Obama care for instance. Do you honestly believe it will be cancelled? This is in the past yet we suffer it today.

We must relight the vision of the Libertarians but once I studied the platform, i lost a lot of hope.

Government is not like popping a balloon. Merely wishing for change does not cause it to happen. Forces in DC are a lot more mighty than posters here appear to believe.

They know how to stop things dead in it's tracks.

Say Paul wins. He faces Harry Reid. End of story.

I don't think it will be repealed, but I don't have faith in the Republican party to do anything about it either.

Chris
07-15-2014, 01:59 PM
Well, take Obama care for instance. Do you honestly believe it will be cancelled? This is in the past yet we suffer it today.

We must relight the vision of the Libertarians but once I studied the platform, i lost a lot of hope.

Government is not like popping a balloon. Merely wishing for change does not cause it to happen. Forces in DC are a lot more mighty than posters here appear to believe.

They know how to stop things dead in it's tracks.

Say Paul wins. He faces Harry Reid. End of story.



Lowercase l libertarian not uppercase L Libertarian. Principles not party.

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 01:59 PM
Give the young credit since they have but a short time to become naive, and a long time to collect wisdom. They will too get wisdom if they work at it.

The idea any person can run the Federal Government over just philosophies is silly at best and really lame at worst.

Check out Carter for proof.

The reason why Ike worked out is he was not great as a war fighter, such as Patton was, but a superb manager and coordinator of a vast military machine. And he had learned the tricks of DC.

Still let list his accomplishments.

1. He was very popular.
2. A knock on him was his lax work habits.
3. He was said to be detached as a manager.
4. He was accused of baffling speeches.
5. He had rich men in his cabinet and was accused of allowing them full reign.
6. Some blamed him for letting Sen. Joe McCarthy run loose.
7. He stockpiled nuclear weapons and promised massive retaliation against the Soviets then in the Hungarian uprising in 1956 did nothing to help them beat the Soviets.
8. Ike brought the Korean war to a stand off since the war is not officially over.
9. He concluded several alliance agreements and cut the defense budget.
10. His ME doctrine promised aid to them to fight the Soviets.
11. When England, France and Israel invaded the Suez Canal in 1956, he condemned them and they were forced to back down.
12. 2 years later, he sent Marines to Lebanon.
13. He engaged in additional aid to the fighting in the South of Vietnam. (Truman actually aided them first)
14. He expanded Social Security, created the department of health, education and welfare.
15. Spent billions on public housing and freeways.
16. He came out strong for religious devotion.
17. He deeply regretted Brown v board of education by the Supreme Court
18. Democrats controlled congress for all but 2 years of his two terms.
19. He suffered the loss of a US spy plane shot down in Russia.

Make of that record as you will.

Carter was a governor. He'd be one of the very few Presidents left standing if we followed your "governors only" rule. No Eisenhower, Washington, or Madison, but we'll take Carter, Wilson, and FDR.

You're proving yourself for a progressive the more you open your condescending claptrap.

Bob
07-15-2014, 02:00 PM
What confuses me about the Libertarian party is it really does not wish to manage government but to play a role in returning to 1800.
False. They simple want the freedoms backs. Nobody is saying get rid of technology Bob.


Government is not technology and I have no idea why you said that. I too call for the return of freedom but in many many years of calling for it, sadly nothing much changed for the better. If anything, things just got worse.




Just because a person is LDS doesn't mean they are smart or vote for what is best.

It appears you are confirming that.

Bob
07-15-2014, 02:04 PM
Carter was a governor. He'd be one of the very few Presidents left standing if we followed your "governors only" rule. No Eisenhower, Washington, or Madison, but we'll take Carter, Wilson, and FDR.

You're proving yourself for a progressive the more you open your condescending claptrap.

No no, If I got my way, the congress would fill with the types to restore freedom and slash Government.

This may be progressive to you and I am content you call my call to scale way back thusly, but I don't believe you mean it this way.

I have offered sound reasons for selecting skilled and proven and competent Governors. This is not the first forum I argued this on. I was making this argument as soon as I got an internet account the past century.

Carter thought much like Rand Paul. Show up with ideas and it will happen. Carter was taught a hard lesson.

It might comfort you to call me condescending but I am not at all that way. I offer facts. When it is pure opinion, I make that fairly clear.

Bob
07-15-2014, 02:07 PM
Lowercase l libertarian not uppercase L Libertarian. Principles not party.

I argue in favor of that.

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 02:07 PM
No no, If I got my way, the congress would fill with the types to restore freedom and slash Government.

This may be progressive to you and I am content you call my call to scale way back thusly, but I don't believe you mean it this way.

I have offered sound reasons for selecting skilled and proven and competent Governors. This is not the first forum I argued this on. I was making this argument as soon as I got an internet account the past century.

Carter thought much like Rand Paul. Show up with ideas and it will happen. Carter was taught a hard lesson.

It might comfort you to call me condescending but I am not at all that way. I offer facts. When it is pure opinion, I make that fairly clear.

You mean, like constantly demeaning your opponents by subtly insulting their intelligence and bemoaning "the young"?

What's it like to be perfect, Bob? I gots ta know.

Bob
07-15-2014, 02:08 PM
I don't think it will be repealed, but I don't have faith in the Republican party to do anything about it either.

What do you think about Ikes expanding Social Security and creating the department of health, education and welfare?

Perianne
07-15-2014, 02:08 PM
Carter thought much like Rand Paul. Show up with ideas and it will happen. Carter was taught a hard lesson.


Carter was a poopoo head. And he still is.

The Xl
07-15-2014, 02:09 PM
What do you think about Ikes expanding Social Security and creating the department of health, education and welfare?

I don't like any of it. I also don't like corporate welfare and a crazy military budget.

Neither side does anything for me.

Perianne
07-15-2014, 02:09 PM
What's it like to be perfect, Bob? I gots ta know.

You are asking the wrong person, Green Arrow. :)

Bob
07-15-2014, 02:09 PM
You mean, like constantly demeaning your opponents by subtly insulting their intelligence and bemoaning "the young"?

What's it like to be perfect, Bob? I gots ta know.

Nobody demeans you without your consent.

I can't do that.

I don't even try.

It is you who gets furious over my facts.

You seem to ignore that I and the older group also were young. We faced just what you face.

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 02:10 PM
Nobody demeans you without your consent.

I can't do that.

I don't even try.

It is you who gets furious over my facts.

Nice try, bub, but that's not how it works. Cthulhu said that being LDS isn't proof that they are smart, and you said he proves that. With no provocation, you insulted his intelligence.

Bob
07-15-2014, 02:12 PM
You are asking the wrong person, @Green Arrow (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=868). :)

Thank you. He hopes he can put me down by making up such crude statements.

del
07-15-2014, 02:12 PM
Can you provide the wonderful accomplishments that Obama has done that would prove he is not an empty suit.

What leadership skills has he show to actually bring the nation together and get us on the right track?

you're cute when you think you have a point, too

i've been saying obama's an empty suit since 2007

monk
07-15-2014, 02:12 PM
Carter thought much like Rand Paul.


No comparison.:shocked:

Bob
07-15-2014, 02:13 PM
Nice try, bub, but that's not how it works. Cthulhu said that being LDS isn't proof that they are smart, and you said he proves that. With no provocation, you insulted his intelligence.

Oh really??? You mean he can dish it out but not take it?

Bob
07-15-2014, 02:14 PM
No comparison.:shocked:

I was talking about how the two of them believed that they would run DC as if it was their club to run.

I was not comparing them to each other as to politics.

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 02:16 PM
Oh really??? You mean he can dish it out but not take it?

Where did he insult you personally, Bob?

Perianne
07-15-2014, 02:16 PM
Thank you. He hopes he can put me down by making up such crude statements.

Bob, you are not perfect. Maybe close to perfect. You notice he didn't ask me what it is like to be perfect because I could have told him! Ain't that right, Green Arrow?

Me and Green Arrow are buds. As I have said many times, he and I rarely agree, but he's really not that difficult to get along with if you accept that he has a strong personality.

Bob, you have to give GA credit. He is trying to find his way in the political world. He is much further along than many people his age.

Bob
07-15-2014, 02:17 PM
I don't like any of it. I also don't like corporate welfare and a crazy military budget.

Neither side does anything for me.

Do you know why the deficit per annum is falling?

Not because the Democrats want it to fall.

It is falling due to efforts made by Republicans.

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 02:18 PM
Bob, you are not perfect. Maybe close to perfect. You notice he didn't ask me what it is like to be perfect because I could have told him! Ain't that right, @Green Arrow (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=868)?

Me and Green Arrow are buds. As I have said many times, he and I rarely agree, but he's really not that difficult to get along with if you accept that he has a strong personality.

Bob, you have to give GA credit. He is trying to find his way in the political world. He is much further along than many people his age.

Not to mention I get along just fine with those older, wiser, and smarter than me...just so long as they discuss with me as an equal and leave age out of it.

Perianne
07-15-2014, 02:20 PM
Not to mention I get along just fine with those older, wiser, and smarter than me...just so long as they discuss with me as an equal and leave age out of it.

But you are so young!

Matty
07-15-2014, 02:20 PM
GA is a charmer with his " period bleeding all over the forums" Prince Charming. A real buddy for sure. Yep!

Bob
07-15-2014, 02:21 PM
Bob, you are not perfect. Maybe close to perfect. You notice he didn't ask me what it is like to be perfect because I could have told him! Ain't that right, @Green Arrow (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=868)?

Me and Green Arrow are buds. As I have said many times, he and I rarely agree, but he's really not that difficult to get along with if you accept that he has a strong personality.

Bob, you have to give GA credit. He is trying to find his way in the political world. He is much further along than many people his age.

If I was perfect, I would locate some company willing to put it into a can and market it to the public.

He is wrong to talk as he does about me.

He defended one poster who slammed me over LDS not being smart.

GA has a powerful attitude. He must honestly think he is as wise as he will ever be.

I think he will grow a lot. Once he quits flip flopping he can settle down.

He flaunts socialism in his avatar. He understands how he paints a red bullseye on his views. He does it on purpose.

I can't recall he ever complimented me, yet i have complimented him many times. Oh well.

Bob
07-15-2014, 02:22 PM
GA is a charmer with his " period bleeding all over the forums" Prince Charming. A real buddy for sure. Yep!


He is who said that to you?

Holy cow.

Cthulhu
07-15-2014, 02:23 PM
Oh really??? You mean he can dish it out but not take it?

Indeed. I'm crying on the inside wondering how I'll kill myself today. Oh poor me....

However shall life go on?

*legendary eyeroll*

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 02:23 PM
But you are so young!

True, and I got where I am by having more friends in their fifties and older, growing up, than kids my own age. I spent my entire Freshman year in high school in the library and the successive years were spent in a classroom between classes and at lunch debating politics.

Matty
07-15-2014, 02:23 PM
He is who said that to you?

Holy cow.
He certainly did.

Bob
07-15-2014, 02:24 PM
Not to mention I get along just fine with those older, wiser, and smarter than me...just so long as they discuss with me as an equal and leave age out of it.

Oh well, you must feel inferior over age.

I don't say things to try to cause others to feel inferior.

This must be the root cause of your taunts and insults.

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 02:24 PM
Oh well, you must feel inferior over age.

I don't say things to try to cause others to feel inferior.

This must be the root cause of your taunts and insults.

I don't feel inferior. I am treated as inferior. There's a difference.

Cthulhu
07-15-2014, 02:25 PM
GA is a charmer with his " period bleeding all over the forums" Prince Charming. A real buddy for sure. Yep!

Friendly advice which you can choose to take or leave - get over it. It doesn't enhance the debate in any way. And you can be sure that Green Arrow still doesn't care.

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 02:25 PM
He is who said that to you?

Holy cow.

Of course I did. She was being nasty and was bordering on harassment. I joined her at her level.

Bob
07-15-2014, 02:25 PM
Indeed. I'm crying on the inside wondering how I'll kill myself today. Oh poor me....

However shall life go on?

*legendary eyeroll*

I was told you were cold blooded. Your notes to me confirmed that.

Matty
07-15-2014, 02:27 PM
Of course I did. She was being nasty and was bordering on harassment. I joined her at her level.
Of course you did. You are the grossest nastiest excuse for a so called man I've ever seen.

Bob
07-15-2014, 02:28 PM
Of course I did. She was being nasty and was bordering on harassment. I joined her at her level.

Oh my god

Bob
07-15-2014, 02:29 PM
Of course you did. You are the grossest nastiest excuse for a so called man I've ever seen.

Oh my god

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 02:30 PM
Of course you did. You are the grossest nastiest excuse for a so called man I've ever seen.

http://newnation.sg/wp-content/uploads/fall-asleep-gif.gif

Bob
07-15-2014, 02:31 PM
I don't feel inferior. I am treated as inferior. There's a difference.

This is no time to engage in a fake pity party. Nobody thinks of you as inferior.

I do think socialists are and explain you use of their banner of pride?

Cthulhu
07-15-2014, 02:31 PM
If I was perfect, I would locate some company willing to put it into a can and market it to the public.

He is wrong to talk as he does about me.

He defended one poster who slammed me over LDS not being smart.

Trust me, I did not slam you. I simply pointed out that the rank and file church member at large is no more intelligent than the average citizen. The fact that you think 80% are republicans may or may not be true. But say it was. It doesn't make them superior voters in any sense. Or more intelligent. It wasn't a personal swipe at you. How you read a personal attack from my statement remains a mystery I frankly do not care to solve at the moment.



GA has a powerful attitude. He must honestly think he is as wise as he will ever be.

I think he will grow a lot. Once he quits flip flopping he can settle down.

He flaunts socialism in his avatar. He understands how he paints a red bullseye on his views. He does it on purpose.

I can't recall he ever complimented me, yet i have complimented him many times. Oh well.

Socialism - at least the type Green Arrow advocates for is not the compulsory type. Is he for single payer health care? Sure. Would he impose it on other via force? I highly doubt it. At the end of the day we need to realize that we are no owed compliments or rep or any other ego stroking that occurs on political forums by virtue of just posting.

Want your ego stroked? Post something others will find worth while. But if one's self esteem is governed by random strangers across the ether of the internet, I worry for that soul.

Matty
07-15-2014, 02:33 PM
This is no time to engage in a fake pity party. Nobody thinks of you as inferior.

I do think socialists are and explain you use of their banner of pride?
I do. I think he is inferior.

Bob
07-15-2014, 02:33 PM
Where did he insult you personally, Bob?

He knows what he pulled. This is my affair and he belongs in it.

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 02:34 PM
This is no time to engage in a fake pity party. Nobody thinks of you as inferior.

I do think socialists are and explain you use of their banner of pride?

Explain? Okay. I'm a socialist.

Clear enough for ya?

Bob
07-15-2014, 02:34 PM
I do. I think he is inferior.

That does you nor him any good.

He is deluded to claim I see him as inferior.

Bob
07-15-2014, 02:35 PM
Explain? Okay. I'm a socialist.

Clear enough for ya?

Certainly is. I thought you were to seek some help for your eyes?

Perianne
07-15-2014, 02:35 PM
Of course I did. She was being nasty and was bordering on harassment. I joined her at her level.

I am not gonna call someone out on the forum.

But in the future, maybe we should not say "period bleeding" on here. Can we all agree with that?

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 02:36 PM
I am not gonna call someone out on the forum.

But in the future, maybe we should not say "period bleeding" on here. Can we all agree with that?

Certainly. I agree that it went too far, which is why it only happened once and I'm not defending it.

Matty
07-15-2014, 02:36 PM
That does you nor him any good.

He is deluded to claim I see him as inferior.


So? Roll with it.

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 02:37 PM
Certainly is. I thought you were to seek some help for your eyes?

I did, but it didn't seem to help. You're still saying Washington didn't do much.

monk
07-15-2014, 02:37 PM
It is kinda gross. (The bleeding part.)

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 02:38 PM
That does you nor him any good.

He is deluded to claim I see him as inferior.

I didn't say you do, Bob. I said your words establish you as my superior.

Matty
07-15-2014, 02:38 PM
[QUOTE=Green Arrow;689659]Certainly. I agree that it went too far, which is why it only happened once and I'm not defending it.[/

you already did defend it.

Cthulhu
07-15-2014, 02:38 PM
I was told you were cold blooded. Your notes to me confirmed that.

This hasn't been a secret Bob - ask anybody on the board who knows me even remotely. I am as warm and fuzzy as glacier. The world is better off that I am LDS. If I didn't have Christian values of self restraint and believe in accountability after death - I would be a killer.

A clever, inventive, festive, clean, serial killer.

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 02:39 PM
[QUOTE=Green Arrow;689659]Certainly. I agree that it went too far, which is why it only happened once and I'm not defending it.[/

you already did defend it.

Where? Show me.

donttread
07-15-2014, 02:41 PM
Off his website:

"We are already in two wars that we are not paying for. We are waging war across the Middle East on a credit card, one whose limit is rapidly approaching. And to involve our troops in further conflicts that hold no vital U.S. interests is wrong."

That is absolutely correct, except he didn't point out that the Bushbama administration should be charged with murder for every American killed in Iraq and everyone killed in Afghanistan in the last two years

Matty
07-15-2014, 02:42 PM
Of course I did. She was being nasty and was bordering on harassment. I joined her at her level.


[QUOTE=Matalese;689668]

Where? Show me.
Here ^^^^^^^^^^

Ravens Fan
07-15-2014, 02:42 PM
That does you nor him any good.

He is deluded to claim I see him as inferior.

Is he? Is he really?

He and Xl have stated a few times recently how they take issue with posters who automaticly dismiss their views based on their age alone. So in response, you use the age/experience argument to open your discussions with them. Kinda like the whole issue with the Wash.

Seems like maybe you are a bit deluded to think that you can talk down to people and expect them to take your point of views seriously.

Bob
07-15-2014, 02:42 PM
Trust me, I did not slam you. I simply pointed out that the rank and file church member at large is no more intelligent than the average citizen. The fact that you think 80% are republicans may or may not be true. But say it was. It doesn't make them superior voters in any sense. Or more intelligent. It wasn't a personal swipe at you. How you read a personal attack from my statement remains a mystery I frankly do not care to solve at the moment.



Socialism - at least the type Green Arrow advocates for is not the compulsory type. Is he for single payer health care? Sure. Would he impose it on other via force? I highly doubt it. At the end of the day we need to realize that we are no owed compliments or rep or any other ego stroking that occurs on political forums by virtue of just posting.

Want your ego stroked? Post something others will find worth while. But if one's self esteem is governed by random strangers across the ether of the internet, I worry for that soul.

You have real issues.

Holy cow.

The more I read you, the more issues I see you have.

Socialism is never voluntary.

Fact is, it is very old and has a long history. Each time, it was imposed.

Look, I don't want to pick a fight over the LDS. I thought it was crude the way you talked about them.

I had not portrayed them as smarter, smugger or superior at all.

A friend of mine at my ward informed me he is a Democrat and he told me as if he were correct that 80 percent are republicans. One can try to shoot me I suppose for repeating his words.

But the snark you leveled at me was not warranted so I returned your favor.

My ego is very healthy and does not need stroking. Why do you talk that way?

You we offered the chance to know more about me in private and you refused. What does that tell the forum about you?

I made the offer. Offer rejected. Then I get lectured?

PolWatch
07-15-2014, 02:43 PM
'A clever, inventive, festive, clean, serial killer'. Dexter!

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 02:44 PM
Here ^^^^^^^^^^

Nice try, but I didn't defend it. I acknowledged that I did it.

Matty
07-15-2014, 02:45 PM
Of course I did. She was being nasty and was bordering on harassment. I joined her at her level.


[QUOTE=Matalese;689668]

Where? Show me.


Nice try, but I didn't defend it. I acknowledged that I did it.
You defended it.

Bob
07-15-2014, 02:45 PM
Is he? Is he really?

He and Xl have stated a few times recently how they take issue with posters who automaticly dismiss their views based on their age alone. So in response, you use the age/experience argument to open your discussions with them. Kinda like the whole issue with the Wash.

Seems like maybe you are a bit deluded to think that you can talk down to people and expect them to take your point of views seriously.

I NEVER talk down to any poster. I mock some of the left wing but I doubt you mind that.

I am not responsible for the lack of understanding of my comments when I try hard to make myself clear.

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 02:48 PM
You defended it.

*pat* It's okay. I know you don't understand the difference between acknowledgement and defense.

Bob
07-15-2014, 02:49 PM
'A clever, inventive, festive, clean, serial killer'. Dexter!

I saw the final episode of Dexter this weekend. The ending left one with a desire to bump off the writers.

Did Dexter die with his boat? Was that him at the end at some cafe or ??

He had a son and a woman that loved him. He had cleared his way at his job to depart to safety. He dumped his sister in the water rather than bury her with honor.

I know he was a killer. but I wish the writing on the last episode was decent.

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 02:50 PM
I NEVER talk down to any poster. I mock some of the left wing but I doubt you mind that.

I am not responsible for the lack of understanding of my comments when I try hard to make myself clear.

https://poolagirl.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/smellslikebullshit2.jpg

PolWatch
07-15-2014, 02:51 PM
that series gave me the willies!

Matty
07-15-2014, 02:51 PM
*pat* It's okay. I know you don't understand the difference between acknowledgement and defense.
You included a reason as to why you did it. That buddy, is defending it. So take your nasty condescending *pat* and put it where the moon don't shine.

Bob
07-15-2014, 02:51 PM
I didn't say you do, Bob. I said your words establish you as my superior.

I wish it was my fault so I could apologize. But you take things entirely the wrong way.

Cthulhu
07-15-2014, 02:51 PM
You have real issues.

Holy cow.

The more I read you, the more issues I see you have.

Obviously. There is a reason I get along better with animals than humans.



Socialism is never voluntary.

False. Co-ops exist. And they are a form of socialism. Have health insurance? Socialism. Social security? Socialism. Socialism done right is super. Most can't manage it right though which is why I generally oppose it.



Fact is, it is very old and has a long history. Each time, it was imposed.

Look, I don't want to pick a fight over the LDS. I thought it was crude the way you talked about them.

Facts are facts, how you feel about them doesn't concern me. I just have a realistic view of humanity, even those who are LDS.



I had not portrayed them as smarter, smugger or superior at all.

A friend of mine at my ward informed me he is a Democrat and he told me as if he were correct that 80 percent are republicans. One can try to shoot me I suppose for repeating his words.

But the snark you leveled at me was not warranted so I returned your favor.

My ego is very healthy and does not need stroking. Why do you talk that way?

Blarg.



You we offered the chance to know more about me in private and you refused. What does that tell the forum about you?

I made the offer. Offer rejected. Then I get lectured?

I attempted to fix something, and saw that I was not the right person to do it. Just because you have a pulse, does not mean I owe you friendship. I am commanded to love all men - and I do, in my own abrasive way...but the good books don't say anything about having to like all men.

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 02:53 PM
You included a reason as to why you did it. That buddy, is defending it. So take your nasty condescending *pat* and put it where the moon don't shine.

Bless your heart.

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 02:54 PM
I wish it was my fault so I could apologize. But you take things entirely the wrong way.

I'm sure :rollseyes: I keep forgetting you are perfect and do no wrong.

Bob
07-15-2014, 02:54 PM
that series gave me the willies!

I liked him in 6 feet under and somebody told me I should watch Dexter. I am happy it ended. A lot of the writing was superior. The acting was very good. I was told to watch Game of Thrones. I like it to an extent. It does not make me say, oh .... when will the DVD get here. I will watch an episode of Thrones and then some movies in the mix.

Breaking bad was entertaining but i seem to be hung up waiting on Netflix to get the other episodes.

Matty
07-15-2014, 02:55 PM
I'm sure :rollseyes: I keep forgetting you are perfect and do no wrong.
Oh gwad, the Joan of Arc act.

Cthulhu
07-15-2014, 02:56 PM
You included a reason as to why you did it. That buddy, is defending it. So take your nasty condescending *pat* and put it where the moon don't shine.

Have a cupcake-

8254

Bob
07-15-2014, 02:56 PM
I'm sure :rollseyes: I keep forgetting you are perfect and do no wrong.

I have admitted wrong on this forum. Come to think of it, I have no experience with you admitting wrong. Even that blood curdling comment to Matalese and you think you could defend why you did it to her.

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 03:01 PM
I have admitted wrong on this forum. Come to think of it, I have no experience with you admitting wrong. Even that blood curdling comment to Matalese and you think you could defend why you did it to her.

Again, I didn't defend it. I told Perianne it was wrong. Try something else, that one won't stick.

Bob
07-15-2014, 03:02 PM
Obviously. There is a reason I get along better with animals than humans.

Yep, I notice that.

I attempted to fix something, and saw that I was not the right person to do it. Just because you have a pulse, does not mean I owe you friendship. I am commanded to love all men - and I do, in my own abrasive way...but the good books don't say anything about having to like all men.

You aimed to ask me to not use a word. Actually prior to you requesting it, I had already stopped.

Sadly you figured you should then beat me up over it. I told you I don't say it. It did not matter to you what I said, you took off as if I was snubbing you.

You seem to lecture over poor behavior while you engage in it.

I don't get your point in doing that to people.

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 03:02 PM
Oh gwad, the Joan of Arc act.

It's spelled "gawd."

Matty
07-15-2014, 03:03 PM
It's spelled "gawd."
Tell it to the ipad. Explain period bleeding to the folks again about how you just had to do it?

Bob
07-15-2014, 03:03 PM
Again, I didn't defend it. I told Perianne it was wrong. Try something else, that one won't stick.

You are never wrong. Ask you.

Bob
07-15-2014, 03:07 PM
I did, but it didn't seem to help. You're still saying Washington didn't do much.

You were invited to lecture me as to what he did. I have looked and looked for your commentary. As superior as you are, surely you can produce something that does not smell like bullshit.

Peter1469
07-15-2014, 03:08 PM
Warning: this thread is about "piling on" Rand Paul. Not other members. Last warning.

Bob
07-15-2014, 03:10 PM
I hope i replied to those talking to me. If you remarked and feel you got no reply, give me a heads up. I have other things to attend to for some period of time.

I am waiting for the remarkable list of Washington's achievements doing his job as President. I know he is a sacred cow and make no mistake, I honor the man and credit him for a lot. But can't find much he did as president. Some person surely will post his vast achievements done while in the white house.

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 03:15 PM
Tell it to the ipad. Explain period bleeding to the folks again about how you just had to do it?

I didn't have to do it. I just did.

Ravens Fan
07-15-2014, 03:16 PM
I hope i replied to those talking to me. If you remarked and feel you got no reply, give me a heads up. I have other things to attend to for some period of time.

I am waiting for the remarkable list of Washington's achievements doing his job as President. I know he is a sacred cow and make no mistake, I honor the man and credit him for a lot. But can't find much he did as president. Some person surely will post his vast achievements done while in the white house.

I already answered that for ya, Bob. I'll even add to my list that he somehow kept an infant country together without the technology that we take for granted today. No telegraphs, no telephones, no television, no cars planes or trains to carry information or opinions. No internet. and working off a brand new constitution, the first of it's kind. The decisions he made and the template he set for the office of the President are still used today.

Hell, he must have done something extraordinary to have the nation's capitol, a state, many cities, colleges, schools and roads named after him. Don't ya think?

Green Arrow
07-15-2014, 03:16 PM
You are never wrong. Ask you.

Alright. One moment.

...

...

I asked if I was never wrong. I answered, "Of course I'm wrong." So, it would appear you are incorrect.

Cthulhu
07-15-2014, 03:27 PM
You aimed to ask me to not use a word. Actually prior to you requesting it, I had already stopped.

Sadly you figured you should then beat me up over it. I told you I don't say it. It did not matter to you what I said, you took off as if I was snubbing you.

You seem to lecture over poor behavior while you engage in it.

I don't get your point in doing that to people.

Egads... I am not going to attempt to re-hash what actually happened and compare it to what you actually remember.

I leave this weirdness.

Have a cupcake with Matalese.

8255

Matty
07-15-2014, 03:28 PM
Egads... I am not going to attempt to re-hash what actually happened and compare it to what you actually remember.

I leave this weirdness.

Have a cupcake with @Matalese (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=796).

8255

texan
07-15-2014, 03:41 PM
I love it that everyone is so scared of Rand Paul, that means we should seriously consider him.

Peter1469
07-15-2014, 03:59 PM
I love it that everyone is so scared of Rand Paul, that means we should seriously consider him.

I agree with that.

donttread
07-16-2014, 12:31 PM
I agree with that.


We certainly should but sheep alligences run deep