1.5 Billion in Aid Released to Egypt

[Conley]

Somewhat old news but I didn't see it here. As I understand it, most of the money will be spent on weapons.

Interesting discussion here:


TAPPER: On the subject of Egypt, following up on Jessica, Senator Leahy lobbied aggressively for the administration to not release the $1.5 billion in funds to the Egyptian government because of the behavior of the Egyptian government, including locking up democracy activists who were American. Why is Senator Leahy wrong ? Why was the money released all at once and not in tranches and not in a joint account that could be controlled by the Americans as well?
CARNEY: Well, I don’t have an answer to you for — on the specific mechanisms by which funds like this were released or might be released. What I would say to you is that we believe it is in the interest of the United States to engage with all parties in Egypt and to engage — to continue to engage with Egypt, because Egypt has been an important ally of the United States and an important — has played a significant role in the region.
And we believe it is in our interest to engage with Egypt, in part in an effort to encourage Egypt to maintain its commitment to its international obligations and to maintain its — to maintain a positive role in the region.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/04/releasing-1-5-in-aid-to-egypt-against-the-wishes-of-sen-leahy-todays-qs-for-os-wh-452012/

[Peter1469]

That was a mistake.

[MMC]

Major Mistake now since the Muslim Brotherhood now has renigged on the deal for the Presidency. Plus the other branch of Islamists make up 1/3rd of the New Parliament.

[Conley]

No doubt. I wonder when those weapons will be used against us and our allies.

[annata]

CARNEY: Well, I don’t have an answer to you for — on the specific mechanisms by which funds like this were released or might be released. What I would say to you is that we believe it is in the interest of the United States to engage with all parties in Egypt and to engage — to continue to engage with Egypt, because Egypt has been an important ally of the United States and an important — has played a significant role in the region.
And we believe it is in our interest to engage with Egypt, in part in an effort to encourage Egypt to maintain its commitment to its international obligations and to maintain its — to maintain a positive role in the region.

"The Egyptian government has asked Interpol (http://thepoliticalforums.com/posts/2012/04/05/uae_detains_foreign_ngo_workers) to issue international arrest warrants for American and other foreign NGO workers for organizations working to develop civil society in Egypt as it struggles with its transition to democracy. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton waived congressional restrictions (http://thepoliticalforums.com/posts/2012/03/22/clinton_waives_restrictions_on_us_aid_to_egypt?hid ecomments=yes) on U.S. aid to Egypt last month, following the release of more than a dozen NGO workers who were barred from leaving Cairo, but the Egyptian government is now seeking the arrests of those NGO workers who were not in Egypt at the time criminal charges were brought.
Interpol is considering the request and can reject warrant requests that are politically motivated, but meanwhile Paul wants to prevent the United States from sending more than $1.5 billion in annual aid to the Egyptian government. He told The Cable Tuesday he will offer an amendment along those lines to the bill (http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/221957-senate-moves-forward-on-postal-service-bill-) moving in the Senate on fixing the financial problems at the U.S. Postal Service.


"I find it incredibly insulting that we're sending them $2 billion in aid and their putting out international warrants," Paul said. "Interpol is not supposed to be involved in political persecution so this is troubling to me."
In February, Paul attempted a similar gambit and filibustered a transportation-related bill as a means of pressuring the Senate to hold a vote on his previous amendment to cut off U.S. aid to Egypt. Democrats blocked Paul's amendment (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/democrat-blocks-rand-paul-s-attempt-cut-aid-egypt-because-its-insolence-and-disregard) from getting a floor vote.
Asked why he thought this time might be different, Paul said, "You have to just be an optimist around here. I don't know that it will go better (this time) but I'm going to try."
Sen. John McCain, the chairman of the International Republican Institute, one of the NGOs with members facing charges, told The Cable today the new Paul amendment was unwise and would not succeed.
"It won't pass," he said. "A lot of us are very unhappy about the events in Egypt and very unhappy about the treatment of NGOs. But this is not the time to cut off aid to Egypt as they are going through this electoral process. ... Most members of the Senate understand that."
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/04/17/here_we_go_again_rand_paul_launches_another_effort _to_cut_egypt_aid

We can give the Egyptian military all we want; i'm not sure if we're buying anything...although Rand Pauls reasoning is nuts. Mccain says "play it again sam".
The NGOs' are still wanted under arrest by Egypt. I'd like to stop dealings, might as well, once we get our people back.
The Arab Spring is going to be done by the Arabs, no more "buying " Mubaracks, and such. get out of internal Egyptian politics.

[Conley]

What did Rand Paul say? I haven't followed his comments. McCain is a dinosaur.

[annata]

What did Rand Paul say? I haven't followed his comments. McCain is a dinosaur.

find it incredibly insulting that we're sending them $2 billion in aid and their putting out international warrants," Paul said. "Interpol is not supposed to be involved in political persecution so this is troubling to me."
In February, Paul attempted a similar gambit and filibustered a transportation-related bill as a means of pressuring the Senate to hold a vote on his previous amendment to cut off U.S. aid to Egypt. Democrats blocked Paul's amendment (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/democrat-blocks-rand-paul-s-attempt-cut-aid-egypt-because-its-insolence-and-disregard) from getting a floor vote.
Asked why he thought this time might be different, Paul said, "You have to just be an optimist around here. I don't know that it will go better (this time) but I'm going to try."

[Conley]

Thanks Annata, I couldn't find the link originally.

[annata]

Thanks Annata, I couldn't find the link originally.sure. Rand is kinna making sense, giving aid to Egypt now is not going to do anyhting but look like interference - best we stay out of it.

I guess Rand wants the NGO's out from under indictment, and thinks the aid will facilitate.
Not a pretty picture, more proof we need to get out of these situations. Afpak. what can be accomplished by the end of 2013 ?
Obama never should have followed the nationbuilding ( counter -insurgency) model of Bush.Catch you later. like this place

[Conley]

Cool, glad you are enjoying yourself.

I'm against this move (and thus agree with Paul if I'm reading it right) because:

1. I'm against arm sales and the MIC in general

2. I'm especially against arm sales and supporting regimes that may turn against us in the near future (mujahdeen in Afghanistan, Saddam in Iraq, and on and on)

3. They're going after Americans both at home and abroad

4. We don't have the money to be providing billions in aid to anyone

I could probably come up with more reasons if I thought more about it. :grin:

edit: oh and of course Egypt's human rights abuses, like the 'virginity tests'

[MMC]

Yes what bothers me is that Clinton waived Congressionsal restrictions. So what I want to know. Is how does the SOS have the Power to do this. Why does the SOS have the Power to do this. This is clearly designed to undermine Congress. If Congress puts up restrictions then why should the SOS be able to toss them out the Window?

What can the American People do about this? Because I doubt voicing and being vocal with Clintons off the record would do any good. Don't you think the Media should be Questioning this. Shouldnt people be allowed to force those in Washington to answer on this. Should the American People send the Word to Clinton.

Telling her don't ever do that shit again. Or we will put your head on a Silver platter showing your Incompetance the World Over.

The problem here is the POL's will be talking about how this is all bi-partisan. What needs to be done is to tell these politicans from both sides. We don't give a shiznit about your bi-partisan shit. This Country is in debt. So no.....We the American People have decided that. No. you are not going to send them a damn thing. If you do.....we will run you out of office with WHATEVER IT TAKES. Now you can fight it and waste the tax-payers money. But understand this.....there will be consequences to your actions.

[MMC]

"The Muslim Brotherhood suffered a setback when an Egyptian court suspended the assembly charged with writing the country's new constitution amid criticism that Islamists held too much sway. The court's decision, which criticized how the assembly was selected, was the latest in a series of challenges to the Brotherhood, which controls nearly 50 percent of the seats in parliament, as it attempts to consolidate power and anchor the constitution to Islamic law. The judges in effect disbanded the 100-member constituent assembly, which was made up mostly of Islamists.

The verdict came after liberals, secularists, Christians and other groups boycotted the assembly over concerns that the Brotherhood would impose a religious agenda at the expense of civil rights and democratic freedoms. It was another indication that the Brotherhood was clumsily maneuvering in a new political terrain following last year's revolution that toppled President Hosni Mubarak."

http://www.startribune.com/world/146917695.html

[annata]

Yes what bothers me is that Clinton waived Congressionsal restrictions. So what I want to know. Is how does the SOS have the Power to do this. Why does the SOS have the Power to do this. This is clearly designed to undermine Congress. If Congress puts up restrictions then why should the SOS be able to toss them out the Window?

What can the American People do about this? Because I doubt voicing and being vocal with Clintons off the record would do any good. Don't you think the Media should be Questioning this. Shouldnt people be allowed to force those in Washington to answer on this. Should the American People send the Word to Clinton.

Telling her don't ever do that shit again. Or we will put your head on a Silver platter showing your Incompetance the World Over.

The problem here is the POL's will be talking about how this is all bi-partisan. What needs to be done is to tell these politicans from both sides. We don't give a shiznit about your bi-partisan shit. This Country is in debt. So no.....We the American People have decided that. No. you are not going to send them a damn thing. If you do.....we will run you out of office with WHATEVER IT TAKES. Now you can fight it and waste the tax-payers money. But understand this.....there will be consequences to your actions.
we basically have a Unitary Presidency ( Cheneys dream come true)-Congress doesn't do ANYTHING on foreign policy, except pass the occasional authorization.
No wars are declared, and the authorization for AfPak is over 10 years old. Does Congresss EVER question it?
We're being bombed (jihad/IED/suicide bombers, etc) out of there, Paki has prohibited drone use -since we droned the fuck out of houses.

Karzai is corrupt, the Taliban know we're under a timetable, so they make noises of negotiations ( kina like Iran) to run the clock out.

we're so damned dumb. I won't get into Libya this early, but it was war for oil. Iraq?? I think it was just neo-con madness. hyped and played up because of 9-11.

[MMC]

I like a what of you said. Agreed on Libya. Yet with the Neo-Cons and Neo-Libs there is an agenda within their madness. Although I am not so fond of the Chaos theory being used within governmental ideologies. Still both are about assisting the Sunni in their oppression of the Shia. Myself I am not so keen on that mindset of dealing with the lesser of Evils. Which i consider the Sunni Arabs to be far more dangerous as they attempt to craft their own versions of Democracy.

Indeed Karzai is Corrupt. Moreover the Pakis still havent opened the Border crossings. Plus now the Haqqani Taliban has accused the Pakis' Taliban of orchestrating the attacks within Afghanistan this past weekend.

Course now there is Syria and it seems it will not matter who is in Office in the US.....as that play continues to unfold. As clearly the West is set on prompting up another Sunni Led Government. Where they promise to be good little humani-terrorists. All the while treating women as Second Sedimentary foundation of dirt, while persecuting and killing Christians. Some groups of Christians that have been in the ME for Hundreds of years. Gone! The only one who said anything about it was Czarkosy in the UN. Where he called it a systematic persecution of Christians throughtout All of the ME and all the Way over to China.

[roadmaster]

With the economy the way it is, how can they give this much money outside of the USA? It's time for WE the People to make a stand instead of listening to them talk about how much we need to sacrifice and how they need to raise taxes on us.

[Conley]

I agree. I also don't think the SoS should have this much power. The entire executive branch has usurped so much power and Congress, while they are a bunch of morons for the most part, should be able to at least put the brakes on military aid and actions that are so unpopular with the people.

[annata]

I like a what of you said. Agreed on Libya. Yet with the Neo-Cons and Neo-Libs there is an agenda within their madness. Although I am not so fond of the Chaos theory being used within governmental ideologies. Still both are about assisting the Sunni in their oppression of the Shia. Myself I am not so keen on that mindset of dealing with the lesser of Evils. Which i consider the Sunni Arabs to be far more dangerous as they attempt to craft their own versions of DemocracyI can't say ; the Shiites are generally considered more "dangerous" as Iran is hellbent on becoming the dominante regional power. They support Hezbollah.
I'm not that upset about Iran getting nukes -i see it more as as "joining the club" -get nukes, and all of a sudden you aren't sanctioned, or under constant threat. The Sunni's are going to turn to Sharia -not much we can do about it.
Not that we HAVE to, i'm thinking just stay out of it. really not much we can do; it's their country, they can do what they want -or rather we have no say in what they do.




Indeed Karzai is Corrupt. Moreover the Pakis still havent opened the Border crossings. Plus now the Haqqani Taliban has accused the Pakis' Taliban of orchestrating the attacks within Afghanistan this past weekend.

I heard the were going to open the border, but Afg. is just ungovernable, look at their history, the Brits and Soviets couldn't stay there -if I recall even Alexander the Great couldn't hold it(?). if we laft in 2008,,or stay till 2013 ( some say longer) NOTHING will change, we're just buying time....for i don't know what.


now there is Syria and it seems it will not matter who is in Office in the US.....as that play continues to unfold. As clearly the West is set on prompting up another Sunni Led Government. Where they promise to be good little humani-terrorists. All the while treating women as Second Sedimentary foundation of dirt, while persecuting and killing Christians. Some groups of Christians that have been in the ME for Hundreds of years. Gone! The only one who said anything about it was Czarkosy in the UN. Where he called it a systematic persecution of Christians throughtout All of the ME and all the Way over to China.
Russia owns that sphere of influence, they are not going to allow the west to intercede.

[MMC]

With the economy the way it is, how can they give this much money outside of the USA? It's time for WE the People to make a stand instead of listening to them talk about how much we need to sacrifice and how they need to raise taxes on us.

I am all for this.....but both sides don't want to hear what We the People have to Say. So now they are crafting any legislation they can to prevent the only solution that will work against them. Which that answer is violence as the law and the Constitution has been usurped. As we have been shown these people will even take the American people to court to even challenge being thrown out of office by their very own people.

[MMC]

I agree. I also don't think the SoS should have this much power. The entire executive branch has usurped so much power and Congress, while they are a bunch of morons for the most part, should be able to at least put the brakes on military aid and actions that are so unpopular with the people.


Exactly how can Clinton just relax Congress' Restrictions. They did not bring this issue to the We the People. They just tell us they are doing this. Truthfully neither side can tells us specifically what this entails as for the Best Interests of the United States. Becuase there is no guarntee on who will lead their country. Moreover why isn't the Media all over it with questions until they answer with just more than have. Specific Obvious questions that should have been asked considering the Circumstances of the country.

Clinton, McCain, Kerry.....All of them!

[MMC]

[QUOTE=MMC;61796I can't say ; the Shiites are generally considered more "dangerous" as Iran is hellbent on becoming the dominante regional power. They support Hezbollah.
I'm not that upset about Iran getting nukes -i see it more as as "joining the club" -get nukes, and all of a sudden you aren't sanctioned, or under constant threat. The Sunni's are going to turn to Sharia -not much we can do about it.
Not that we HAVE to, i'm thinking just stay out of it. really not much we can do; it's their country, they can do what they want -or rather we have no say in what they do.



I heard the were going to open the border, but Afg. is just ungovernable, look at their history, the Brits and Soviets couldn't stay there -if I recall even Alexander the Great couldn't hold it(?). if we laft in 2008,,or stay till 2013 ( some say longer) NOTHING will change, we're just buying time....for i don't know what.

Russia owns that sphere of influence, they are not going to allow the west to intercede.

The Shia yes looked at as more dangerous. Based on their Extremism. Yet maintain only two Countries with Shia Led Governments. In All of the ME. While the Sunni Expand and take over other countries, and again while promising Democratic Ways and elections. (Hence the Sunni Arabs getting a Chance at Libya and taking Control away from the Berbers. Something they could not do for hundreds and hundreds of years.)

I agree with staying out of their Conflicts. Moreover We shouldn't be sharing any technology nor building up their infrastructures. Let them do it themselves. There was no reason to give this this aid. Their Military was capable of defending their borders. Besides who is going to want to attack Egypt.

Yes they were suppose to open those borders. But they havent. As far as Afghanistan is concerned. I would look to Kublai Khans Control over the Whole ME and how he kept them in Check.

I don't know if the Russians will be able to hold off the Wests onslaught now. As the US has made the Move to have UN Observers to go into Syria.

[annata]

^agreed about Egypt, since we have no control, or no lackey like Mubarak to impose, let Egypt be for the Egyptians.
at least. let's let this work out before we give yet more aid.

The ME is pretty hopeless, the rise of Sharia, along with the Arab Spring ( reports I just saw of an attempted coupe' in Qatar). means things are -aligning.

our only REAl interest is oil anyways. for once let's just stay out of there.

don't know if the Russians will be able to hold off the Wests onslaught now. As the US has made the Move to have UN Observers to go into Syria
oh wonderful. another Libya in the making

[MMC]

^agreed about Egypt, since we have no control, or no lackey like Mubarak to impose, let Egypt be for the Egyptians.
at least. let's let this work out before we give yet more aid.

The ME is pretty hopeless, the rise of Sharia, along with the Arab Spring ( reports I just saw of an attempted coupe' in Qatar). means things are -aligning.

our only REAl interest is oil anyways. for once let's just stay out of there.
oh wonderful. another Libya in the making

Yes and I don't think it will matter with Either Administration as the Neo's are all alinged with it. Not to mention Clinton admitted we were helping the rebels to evade capture inside Syria. IMO admitting we are involved in Syria's Civil War. I think I have a piece up on it in World Affairs or latest happenings. Clintons Friends of Syria Meeting.

[annata]

Yes and I don't think it will matter with Either Administration as the Neo's are all alinged with it. Not to mention Clinton admitted we were helping the rebels to evade capture inside Syria. IMO admitting we are involved in Syria's Civil War. I think I have a piece up on it in World Affairs or latest happenings. Clintons Friends of Syria Meeting. we had CIA and SAS in Libya, even before the US leveling of the place. From what I understand it was mostly to keep and eye on the Horn, or maybe Gaddafi just paid that price to become "accepted" back into the world community.

There is this112 classic pic

I no longer understand this country, or maybe it's that i AM understanding it fully now.

EDIT: I gotta run, but i'lll check out Clinton ( whom I voted for in o8).
Cheney must have made a deal with the devil, keep him alive forever, and he'll keep the neo-cons in power.

[MMC]

we had CIA and SAS in Libya, even before the US leveling of the place. From what I understand it was mostly to keep and eye on the Horn, or maybe Gaddafi just paid that price to become "accepted" back into the world community.

There is this112 classic pic

I no longer understand this country, or maybe it's that i AM understanding it fully now.

EDIT: I gotta run, but i'lll check out Clinton ( whom I voted for in o8).
Cheney must have made a deal with the devil, keep him alive forever, and he'll keep the neo-cons in power.


http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4516880210331006&id=c5ba7f9464efb8d9d0922a4a86c77aba&url=http%3a%2f%2f1.bp.blogspot.com%2f_Lwyp--6UDlE%2fS4hKmn98C6I%2fAAAAAAAACQQ%2fGEEz8ftUkpA%2f s320%2fvader_fight_bw_cheney.jpg

Oh, and with my little secret. Did you think you were getting out of here Alive and Dry? :evil: :wink: :laugh:

[Peter1469]

Major Mistake now since the Muslim Brotherhood now has renigged on the deal for the Presidency. Plus the other branch of Islamists make up 1/3rd of the New Parliament.


I imagine that if the MB tells the Egyptian military to attack Israel their will be another military coup.

[MMC]

I imagine that if the MB tells the Egyptian military to attack Israel their will be another military coup.

I believe they also responded with holding up the Writing of Egypt's New Quasi Constitution.