US odd man out at Latin American Summit

[annata]

CARTAGENA, Colombia -- Unprecedented Latin American opposition to U.S. sanctions on communist Cuba left President Barack Obama isolated at the Summit of the Americas on Sunday and illustrated Washington's waning influence in the region.
In contrast to the rock-star status he enjoyed at the 2009 summit in Trinidad and Tobago shortly after taking office, Obama has had a bruising time at the two-day meeting in Colombia of some 30 heads of state from across the Americas.
Eleven Secret Service agents and five military personnel were caught in an embarrassing prostitution scandal, Brazil and others have bashed Obama over U.S. monetary policy, and he has been on the defensive over calls to legalize drugs.

Thanks to the U.S. and Canadian line on Cuba, the heads of state were unable to produce a final declaration as the summit fizzled out on Sunday.

"There was no declaration because there was no consensus," said Colombian President Juan Manuel Santos, who hosted the summit.
President Obama's visit to Colombia was overshadowed by an alleged prostitution scandal involving 15 members of the Secret Service and U.S. military. Obama said he'll "be angry" if it turns out the allegations are true. NBC's Kristen Welker reports.

"That is not a failure, on the contrary," he said, trying to spin the outcome and frank exchange of different views as a sign of strength.
At a press conference with Santos, Obama responded to a question about Cuba by saying that while his administration has eased travel by Cuban Americans to Cuba, the Cuban government had not taken steps toward democracy and "has not yet observed basic human rights."

The prostitution saga (http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/14/11203295-secret-service-faces-its-biggest-scandal-over-prostitutes-expert-says?lite), above all, was a major blow to the prestige of Obama's Secret Service bodyguards and turned into the unexpected talk of the town in the historic city of Cartagena.
For the first time, conservative U.S-allied nations like Colombia are throwing their weight behind the traditional demand of leftist governments that Cuba be in the next meeting of the Organization of American States.


"The isolation, the embargo, the indifference, looking the other way, have been ineffective," Santos said.
A major U.S. ally in the region who has relied on Washington for financial and military help to fight guerrillas and drug traffickers, Santos has become vocal over Cuba despite his strong ideological differences with Havana.
In an ironic twist,
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton went dancing after midnight on Sunday at a Cartagena bar called "Cafe Havana" where Cuban music is played.

Havana was kicked out of the OAS a few years after Fidel Castro's 1959 revolution, and has been excluded from its summits due to opposition from the United States and Canada. Latin Americans also oppose Washington's trade embargo on the island.
Argentine President Cristina Fernandez, who has insisted Washington recognize its claim to the Falkland Islands controlled by Britain, left the summit on Sunday morning, before its official closure.

Ecuador's President Rafael Correa boycotted the meeting over Cuba, and fellow leftist Daniel Ortega of Nicaragua also stayed at home. The leftist ALBA bloc of nations - including Venezuela, Ecuador, Bolivia, Nicaragua and some Caribbean nations - said they will not attend future summits without Cuba's presence.

"It's not a favor anyone would be doing to Cuba. It's a right they've had taken away from them," Ortega said from Managua. "At this meeting in Cartagena, I think it's time for the U.S. government, all President Obama's advisers, to listen to all the Latin American nations."
Though there were widespread hopes for a rapprochement with Cuba under Obama when he took office, Washington has done little beyond ease some travel restrictions, saying democratic changes must come on the island before any further steps can be taken.

Obama has not spoken of Cuba in Colombia, though he did complain that Cold War-era issues, some dating from before his birth, were hindering perspectives on regional integration.
"Sometimes I feel as if in some of these discussions, or at least the press reports, we're caught in a time warp, going back to the 1950s and gunboat diplomacy and Yankees and the Cold War, and this and that and the other," the 50-year-old Obama said.
"That's not the world we live in today."
The controversy at the summit added to strain on the Washington-dominated system of hemispheric diplomacy that was built around the OAS but is struggling to evolve with changes in the region.
Perceived U.S. neglect of Latin America has allowed China to move strongly into the region and become the leading trade partner of Brazil and various other nations.

Regional economic powerhouse Brazil has led criticism at the summit of U.S. and other rich nations' expansionist monetary policy that is sending a flood of funds into developing nations, forcing up local currencies and hurting competitiveness.
Cheering the mood a bit, U.S. Trade Representative Ron Kirk announced that a U.S.-Colombia free trade agreement (http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/15/11211839-us-colombia-trade-deal-to-enter-into-force-in-may?lite)will come into force in the middle of May.

With a presidential election looming, Obama has portrayed his visit to the summit as a way to generate jobs at home by boosting trade

[annata]

well lets add up a few things: the embargo doesn't work, about the only thing Obama got correct
Obama said.
"That's not the world we live in today.

Obama refuses to talk about drug legalizaton -some mish mash statement like "our country won't be following that way"
(like the way things are now are better? Ask Mexico if they like internal narco-cival wars.)

China is moving in as a major trading partner -this is our hemisphere, and we can't even dominate trade with our fellow western spheres?


Regional economic powerhouse Brazil has led criticism at the summit of U.S. and other rich nations' expansionist monetary policy that is sending a flood of funds into developing nations, forcing up local currencies and hurting competitiveness

I believe we're talking "quantitative easing"? not sure here....


With a presidential election looming, Obama has portrayed his visit to the summit as a way to generate jobs at home by boosting trade of course, despite the fact the Summit couldn't even agree on a STATEMENT; but it's a great photo op!!
gotta look busy, and actually DO something beside perpetual campaigns.

As the saying goes "that dog don't hunt no more", and Obama just got a good hard shellacking by Latin America.
Not that he'll DO ANYTHING - While Cuban oil is being pumped across the Straights of Florida, by a Spanish company which is..you guessed it..a subsidiary of China.

[annata]

In a few months Spanish oil company Repsol will start drilling for oil off the coast of Cuba, in a spot just 70 miles south of Key West. Soon Repsol–and its JV partners Norway’s Statoil (http://www.forbes.com/companies/statoil/) and India’s ONGC–will be joined by rigs from PetroVietnam, Malaysia’s Petronas and Venezuela’s PDVSA. But you won’t see any U.S. companies there. Inexplicably, the U.S. maintains its economic embargo against the Castro regime.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2011/12/12/u-s-should-drop-cuba-embargo-for-oil-exploration/

This wrong-headed policy represents a dangerous threat to the environment and a huge missed opportunity to the U.S. oil industry. The U.S. embargo will do nothing to prevent oil drilling from taking place in Cuban waters.
But it will prevent that work from being done by the most experienced companies with the highest-quality equipment. Norway’s Statoil is a proven operator with a long history in the North Sea and the Gulf.
The rest of those companies are just getting started offshore.
A group of U.S. lawmakers in September urged (http://www.businessinsurance.com/article/20110929/NEWS07/110929839#) Repsol (ticker: REPYY.PK) to call off its Cuba plans or face the threat of U.S. lawsuits. Repsol wisely called that bluff.

At least the Obama administration is doing something to ensure that Repsol’s drilling rig is up to snuff.
According to an excellent article from Bloomberg today (http://fuelfix.com/blog/2011/12/09/cuba-oil-drilling-tests-u-s-on-protecting-florida-or-embargo/), Repsol’s Chinese-built Scarabeo 9 rig will soon by boarded by four U.S. inspectors (two from the Coast Guard, two from the Dept. of Interior) who will do what they can to check out the rig and watch some drills.

But, according to the article, there will be real limits to what the inspectors can inspect According to an excellent article from Bloomberg today (http://fuelfix.com/blog/2011/12/09/cuba-oil-drilling-tests-u-s-on-protecting-florida-or-embargo/), Repsol’s Chinese-built Scarabeo 9 rig will soon by boarded by four U.S. inspectors (two from the Coast Guard, two from the Dept. of Interior) who will do what they can to check out the rig and watch some drills. But, according to the article, there will be real limits to what the inspectors can inspect.
They won’t get to check the rig’s all-important blowout preventor, or the well casing or drilling fluids that are to be used. Though the U.S. inspectors will discuss any concerns they have with Repsol, they will have no enforcement authority.Although the offshore industry’s best service companies and parts manufacturers are right here on the U.S. Gulf coast, Repsol will have to train its people and scrounge for spare parts from the rest of the world.
of course it’s smart and safe for the U.S. government to put defensive measures in place in the event of a spill, but the message to the industry is clear: we refuse to give superior U.S. operators the license to drill for oil in Cuba, but we want to make sure you’re ready to clean up any problems.

And the message to Cuba: we’re not going to let you use our engineers, just our janitors. Knowing that a top-notch American clean-up crew is on standby in case of a blowout is not a big incentive for Cuba to keep its own regulators on top of things.
Think about Cuba in relation to U.S. oil adventures in the rest of the world.
Even if Cuba really were a tyrannical threat to U.S. interests, there’s myriad countries where U.S. oil companies have done business that are no more democratic than Cuba. They include Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Burma, Libya, Equatorial Guinea and Kazakhstan.
The Castros’ days as rulers of Cuba are numbered. The embargo stick hasn’t brought regime change, and has only forced Cuba into the arms of autocrats like Venezuela’s Hugo Chavez. Better to use the carrot of capitalism to gradually bring Cuba into the U.S. sphere of influence. The oil industry is a great place to start.

[Captain Obvious]

We should demand compensation for all of the US investment that was nationalized during the Cuban revolution first.

[Conley]

It doesn't surprise me at all that Latin America is telling the US to go f itself. Especially given their consideration of legalizing drugs.

The US doesn't have the money to fund them any more and there's no reason for them to kowtow to us otherwise. Now it's just the ugly history of American interference that will be a factor...no surprise they're running to the Chinese.

[annata]

We should demand compensation for all of the US investment that was nationalized during the Cuban revolution first.how would you do that? what is the formula? how about those whom now own those house?

That's nuts. no other word, Latin America is telling us to "grow up" and stop using the embargo, it's hurting the US as much as Cuba.
we could be rehabbing Havana -you do know the state of the buildings there? they're crumbling, only skilled carpenters prop them up. There is a new market for American construction.

we could be partnering, and build hotels, Cuba is a natuaral trading partner. read what the leaders said ( aside from the oil we're not getting), and stop the reactionary mind.

[annata]

It doesn't surprise me at all that Latin America is telling the US to go f itself. Especially given their consideration of legalizing drugs.

The US doesn't have the money to fund them any more and there's no reason for them to kowtow to us otherwise. Now it's just the ugly history of American interference that will be a factor...no surprise they're running to the Chinese. bingo. Obama had a chance to go there and treat them as equal partners, and work together.
He said No " to all their ideas ( except the Columbian trade agreement -a minor deal).
So they told him "no statement" and it was a failure ( except for some snazzy campaign photos).

I wonder if the USA will ever grow up? China continues its' quest for trade and raw materials. we sit on our Embargo Ass.

[annata]

Communism is so...yesterday. Time to drop the failed policies of yesteryear's warmongers, and move forward.Cuba is moving to a market based economy. SOCIALISM, not COMMUNISM. There are small businesses, and venture capital from europe/China

Please read up on Cuba, don't listen to the US politicians, their minds are stuck in the 1950's.

Brazil leads the world on sugar cane gasoline ( biomass) there are so many things happening -Cuban Dr's are among the best in the world.

catch you later -back to work

[Conley]

bingo. Obama had a chance to go there and treat them as equal partners, and work together.
He said No " to all their ideas ( except the Columbian trade agreement -a minor deal).
So they told him "no statement" and it was a failure ( except for some snazzy campaign photos).

I wonder if the USA will ever grow up? China continues its' quest for trade and raw materials. we sit on our Embargo Ass.

Right...China has made huge inroads in the Middle East, Latin America, everywhere. If it weren't for their poor diplomacy and the general awkwardness of their government / isolationism / paranoia they would be making even bigger advances. I don't think normalizing our relations with Cuba is a possibility because politicians don't want to lose that Miami / Florida support. It's another instance of politicians doing what's best for their careers rather than what's best for the US.

[Captain Obvious]

how would you do that? what is the formula? how about those whom now own those house?

That's nuts. no other word, Latin America is telling us to "grow up" and stop using the embargo, it's hurting the US as much as Cuba.
we could be rehabbing Havana -you do know the state of the buildings there? they're crumbling, only skilled carpenters prop them up. There is a new market for American construction.

we could be partnering, and build hotels, Cuba is a natuaral trading partner. read what the leaders said ( aside from the oil we're not getting), and stop the reactionary mind.

Build hotels? Are you fucking kidding me?

Cuba's a shithole no matter how much of a paradise those socialist wannabe, Michael Moore ass sucking, "It's so fucking great in Cuba that I'll stay right here in the US" idiots say it is.

Fun fact though, did you know that Cuba receives the majority of it's imports from the US?

Anyway, I'm really neither here nor there on the embargo. Could care less if we lift it, could care less if it stays. There is really nothing that interests me about Cuba, but that's just me.

Cuban cigars are over-rated.

[Conley]

It's a shit hole right now but there could be some sweet hotels there. Look at the Bahamas in terms of beaches, weather, etc. It would take a lot of work but it could be done. I think there were some nice resots back when the USSR was funding them also - that's where the Ruskies would go for vacations, at least in the Tom Clancy books I read.

[Captain Obvious]

It's a shit hole right now but there could be some sweet hotels there. Look at the Bahamas in terms of beaches, weather, etc. It would take a lot of work but it could be done. I think there were some nice resots back when the USSR was funding them also - that's where the Ruskies would go for vacations, at least in the Tom Clancy books I read.

I don't disagree, I've seen photos of Cuba. Beautiful beaches, aquamarine water, lush landscapes.

... but it's fucking Cuba. Communist countries governed by radical idiots don't become resorts, they become oppressive communist countries full of poor people and a handful of very wealthy people.

The end of the cold war had a far more devastating impact on Cuba's economy than the embargo will ever have.

[Conley]

True, but how much longer is Castro going to be around? We need to start planning for a post-Cuba Castro, and treating them like fecal matter on the flaccid penis that is Florida isn't really going to make inroads with the next generation of leaders.

Too graphic? :grin:

[Captain Obvious]

True, but how much longer is Castro going to be around? We need to start planning for a post-Cuba Castro, and treating them like fecal matter on the flaccid penis that is Florida isn't really going to make inroads with the next generation of leaders.

Too graphic? :grin:

They're a corrupt little banana communisto. That kind of political infestation won't change overnight and they have nothing anyone wants anymore, not even Russia.

Which is why it doesn't matter if we lift the embargo. Maybe it will save us some geets in the long run, we won't have to give them aid and shit but at the end of the day, they're just another Columbia or whatever.

[annata]

Build hotels? Are you fucking kidding me?

Cuba's a shithole no matter how much of a paradise those socialist wannabe, Michael Moore ass sucking, "It's so fucking great in Cuba that I'll stay right here in the US" idiots say it is.

Fun fact though, did you know that Cuba receives the majority of it's imports from the US?

Anyway, I'm really neither here nor there on the embargo. Could care less if we lift it, could care less if it stays. There is really nothing that interests me about Cuba, but that's just me.

Cuban cigars are over-rated.
Cuba receive most of it's MONEY from the US -remittances.

To the extent that it has the hard currency to support trade at all, Cuba gets most of its imports from the EU and its neighbors to the south
http://emergingfrontiersblog.com/2012/04/04/cuba-could-be-key-to-caribbean-basin/


I gotta go back to work, I don't wish to argure, just debate, so i apologize if I came off harsh.
I'm passionate about ending a 50plus year failed policy. catch you later

[Conley]

They're a corrupt little banana communisto. That kind of political infestation won't change overnight

The corruption will always be there but the communisto part might very much change overnight IMO. Granted, it's not our most pressing foreign policy concern right now but it is another example of much of a failure in general our policies really are.

[annata]

They're a corrupt little banana communisto. That kind of political infestation won't change overnight and they have nothing anyone wants anymore, not even Russia.

Which is why it doesn't matter if we lift the embargo. Maybe it will save us some geets in the long run, we won't have to give them aid and shit but at the end of the day, they're just another Columbia or whatever.
do you know the amout of European touristas that would disagree?

they're just another Columbia or whatever :whatever: - idjit language.

[Captain Obvious]

The corruption will always be there but the communisto part might very much change overnight IMO. Granted, it's not our most pressing foreign policy concern right now but it is another example of much of a failure in general our policies really are.

Besides cigars, what do they have that we could possibly want?

Sugar? I think China or someone buys all their sugar.

The rage in Cuba is driving the old 50's and 60's big-boat American cars. They're everywhere there. I guess the climate does wonders for them.

[Captain Obvious]

do you know the amout of European touristas that would disagree?
:whatever: - idjit language.

But you're missing my point - who cares about Cuba?

They have nothing we're interested in. We have great resorts in Florida and the various tropical islands around that area. Dropping the embargo to invest in Cuba is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard of, nobody wants to invest there.

Tell you what though, I'd love to see these Michael Moore ass kissers go move down there, they all say everyone there pisses honey and shits flowers. Greatest healthcare in the world, hey - go for it. Cuba awaits.

Still waiting for that departing boat from Florida to Cuba with Michael Moore and all these asswipe socialists. In the mean time, cuban refugees still show up by the dozens on the Florida shores. Wonder why they don't stick around with all the 'touristas' in town.

[Conley]

I think the car thing is because they can't afford anything else...replica parts are easy to manufacture. As far as products go I don't know what they've got. I just think at some point you have to let bygones be bygones. I think other Latin American / South American countries can point to Cuba as how stuck in the old days we are and how shortsighted our policies are. It's a reminder of how we've screwed over a lot of other countries too, and it limits our sphere of influence with our neighbors, which shouldn't be the case. Cuba's harmless, we're just screwing with them because we can. That doesn't bring much respect - just my take on it and I haven't spent a lot of time reading about it.

[Conley]

The Michael Moore thing is a tangent - he just tries to be controversial and get people to watch his movies to bring in the money. I don't think this is about that, though I will say I bet they have some good doctors because they can't afford to run every test available and see what the machine tells them the diagnosis is. Of course treatment is a whole different ballgame.

[Captain Obvious]

The Michael Moore thing is a tangent - he just tries to be controversial and get people to watch his movies to bring in the money. I don't think this is about that, though I will say I bet they have some good doctors because they can't afford to run every test available and see what the machine tells them the diagnosis is. Of course treatment is a whole different ballgame.

You were asking me about DCJ in another thread, go there and ask some of those monkey fuckers about Cuba. You will be surprised at how many will readily tell you how badly the US sucks and how spectacular Cuba is.

... from the comfort of their dens here in the US, mind you.

[dadakarma]

You were asking me about DCJ in another thread, go there and ask some of those monkey fuckers about Cuba. You will be surprised at how many will readily tell you how badly the US sucks and how spectacular Cuba is.

... from the comfort of their dens here in the US, mind you.

Are you a member at DCJ?

[Captain Obvious]

Are you a member at DCJ?

Several times over.

They got sick of banning me after a while.

[dadakarma]

Several times over.

They got sick of banning me after a while.

Who are you over there?

[Captain Obvious]

Who are you over there?

Used to be the same moniker I used here but that got perm banned.

Currently I'm Udo Dirkschneider. Don't post there often anymore but every once in a while I stroll over there to take a few shots at Dick Moby.

I own him.

[dadakarma]

Used to be the same moniker I used here but that got perm banned.

Currently I'm Udo Dirkschneider. Don't post there often anymore but every once in a while I stroll over there to take a few shots at Dick Moby.

I own him.

Good for you. :thumbsup:

[Captain Obvious]

Good for you. :thumbsup:

I'm an asshole, but I'm also a cordial guy. At least that's how I see my online persona.

Cosby - even though he's an impractical socialist bucket carrier, he's an equally cordial guy so I have a lot of tolerance with him. Moby's completely incapable of displaying an ounce of unbiasness, he's one of those guys who thinks liberals never do wrong and conservatives are all evil. I have a hard time with that narrowmindedness, used to piss me off but lately I just ignore it. I don't have any interest in debating or discussing matters with people who have such limited intellect.

Yeah, I totally anal raped the spelling in this post.

[dadakarma]

I'm an asshole, but I'm also a cordial guy. At least that's how I see my online persona.

Cosby - even though he's an impractical socialist bucket carrier, he's an equally cordial guy so I have a lot of tolerance with him. Moby's completely incapable of displaying an ounce of unbiasness, he's one of those guys who thinks liberals never do wrong and conservatives are all evil. I have a hard time with that narrowmindedness, used to piss me off but lately I just ignore it. I don't have any interest in debating or discussing matters with people who have such limited intellect.

Yeah, I totally anal raped the spelling in this post.

Well, if it makes you feel better, I'm one liberal that Moby and Bill cannot tolerate under any circumstances whatsoever. :grin:

[Captain Obvious]

Well, if it makes you feel better, I'm one liberal that Moby and Bill cannot tolerate under any circumstances whatsoever. :grin:

You use the same moniker over there?

[dadakarma]

You use the same moniker over there?

No, but everyone over there knew that Parade Rain was dadakarma.

[Captain Obvious]

No, but everyone over there knew that Parade Rain was dadakarma.

You're Parade Rain?

No doubt I've taken a few shots at you then.

[dadakarma]

You're Parade Rain?

No doubt I've taken a few shots at you then.

More than likely, they bounced off harmlessly.

[Captain Obvious]

More than likely, they bounced off harmlessly.

So tell me something, recently there's been an influx of DCJ refugees here in the last month or two. Who posted the "douchebags wanted" ad over there?

[dadakarma]

So tell me something, recently there's been an influx of DCJ refugees here in the last month or two. Who posted the "douchebags wanted" ad over there?

Let me go see...hold on..

Is that a thread title?

[Captain Obvious]

Let me go see...hold on..

Is that a thread title?

Yeah, that's it.

[dadakarma]

Yeah, that's it.

The only thread there with 'douchebags' in the title was posted by Citizen. He hasn't joined here. Not that I'm aware, anyway.

[Captain Obvious]

Citizen - he's like one of the 3 conservatives over there.

[Conley]

Cap'n what's the thread about? You mentioned an ad?

[Captain Obvious]

I don't know if there was a fucking ad, I was just being sarcastic.

Jesus....

:grin:

[Conley]

I did a search for douchebag and found a thread started by Seedy. :laugh:

[Conley]

I don't know if there was a fucking ad, I was just being sarcastic.

Jesus....

:grin:

Hahah...If you're being sarcastic learn to use your emoticons

I thought someone was advertising for douchebags and telling them to join up here!

[Captain Obvious]

Hahah...If you're being sarcastic learn to use your emoticons

I thought someone was advertising for douchebags and telling them to join up here!

Seems like it though, how do you explain how suddenly a fucking bus load of them show up all at once?

[Captain Obvious]

I did a search for douchebag and found a thread started by Seedy. :laugh:

Shocking.

He was here for a while, Juggernot I think. He didn't want Spunk to know who he was.

[Conley]

Shocking.

He was here for a while, Juggernot I think. He didn't want Spunk to know who he was.

Yup.

[annata]

Obama may be well-liked by the people of Latin America, but smiling and waving won't clean up the mess the United States leaves on their table.BY JAMES TRAUB | APRIL 20, 2012
People who care about Latin America worry that the donnybrook (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2112489,00.html) over the Secret Service agents who got caught picking up -- and then refusing to pay for -- prostitutes in Cartagena, Colombia, has overshadowed the Summit of the Americas, where the agents were tasked with protecting U.S. President Barack Obama. They have it backward: If it weren't for the scandal, most Americans wouldn't even know the summit occurred.

: Latin America is not a top-of-the-head subject even for foreign-policy columnists, many of whom -- like me -- have spent a great deal less time there than they have in the conflict zones of the Middle East or the misery zones of Africa (or the wine-and-cheese zones of Europe). The steady growth of democracy and free markets there means that Latin America is not the source of worry it once was, and unlike Asia, where democratic, high-growth states feel menaced by a regional hegemon, Latin America has no China to keep U.S. policymakers awake at night. If the squeaky wheel gets the grease, the neglect that Latin America suffers should be seen as a token of regional success.

In fact, the big news out of Cartagena -- outside of the Secret Service wing of the Hotel Caribe, that is -- was the united front that Latin American countries put up against the United States on several big issues. The immediate (and yet seemingly ageless) provocation was the question of whether Cuba should be admitted to the next summit, in 2015, which the United States and Canada opposed and all 30 Latin American countries, both left-wing bastions like Ecuador and traditional U.S. allies like Colombia, favored, thus bringing the meeting to an end without a planned joint declaration. But Latin American countries were equally prepared to stand up to Washington on the far more important question of drug policy, though they differed among themselves on what needed to be done.
The idea of an "American camp" in Latin America has been an anachronism for some while, but this became glaringly clear in Cartagena. "We need them more than they need us," as Christopher Sabatini, senior director of policy at the Americas Society, puts it. The United States remains the region's largest trading partner, the source of 40 percent of its foreign investment and 90 percent of its remittances. U.S. foreign aid still props up shaky countries like Colombia and Guatemala.

But trade with both China and Europe has grown sharply over the last decade. And both big economies like Brazil and Argentina, and smaller ones like Chile and Peru, have experienced solid growth at a time when the United States has faltered. "Most countries of the region view the United States as less and less relevant to their needs," as a recent report (http://www.thedialogue.org/PublicationFiles/IAD2012PolicyReportFINAL.pdf) on U.S.-Latin American relations concluded.
The most neuralgic issues are not, in any case, economic. The one significant breakthrough that came out of the summit was an agreement between Obama and Colombian President Juan Manuel Santos on labor standards that cleared the final obstacle from a pending free trade agreement between the two countries. The big issues that divide the United States (and let's not forget, Canada) from its Latin American allies are Cuba, drugs, and immigration.

On a trip to Latin America last year, in fact, Obama promised (http://www.americasquarterly.org/node/2496) Salvadoran President Mauricio Funes that he would push immigration reform through Congress -- an effort he later abandoned. But for all their recent maturation, Latin American countries are affected by U.S. domestic issues in a way that no other region could be. Latin America therefore suffers from the paralysis of U.S. domestic politics as Europe or Asia does not.

The summit showed that even Washington's closest allies in the region have lost patience with U.S. politics, even as they sympathize with Obama's unwillingness to risk reelection in order to help his neighbors. This year, Guatemalan President Otto Pérez Molina, a former general elected as a hard-liner, dramatically reversed course and spoke up (http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/guatemalan-president-proposes-drug-legalization-for-central-america/) in favor of drug legalization. This earned him extraordinary visits from both U.S. Vice President Joe Biden (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-17256695) and Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano (http://www.dhs.gov/ynews/releases/20120227-napolitano-mexico-guatemala-visit.shtm). According to Eduardo Stein, the former vice president of Guatemala,

Biden said that the United States was eager to discuss drug reform, just not at the summit, while Napolitano reportedly plainlysaid, "Don't think of raising the issue at the summit." Pérez then went ahead and called a meeting of regional leaders, who could not agree on an alternative set of policies but decided to raise the issue in Cartagena. Pérez later said (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/16/world/americas/summit-of-the-americas-ends-without-consensus-statement.html) that drug policy was the only issue discussed at the summit's final closed-door session

[annata]

This is, in fact, an important sign of progress. At previous summits, as Sabatini notes, heads of state merely smiled and waved, while donning guayaberas and issuing mind-numbing policy communiqués. This time they argued. And the U.S. president listened -- a skill at which he is uniquely gifted. Obama stayed in Colombia for three days, a record in itself. Felipe Calderón, the president of Mexico, was quoted (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/16/world/americas/summit-of-the-americas-ends-without-consensus-statement.html) as saying that he had never before seen a U.S. leader sit and listen to other countries. And this really matters in Latin America, where memories are long for U.S. arrogance and condescension.

Of course, Obama thrilled listeners in the Middle East when he came to Cairo in 2009 and promised a new atmosphere of mutual respect and understanding. The era of good feelings evaporated when Obama was unable to deliver what his audience really wanted, which was a Palestinian state. In Latin America, Obama remains enormously popular, but he may not have the maneuvering room to deliver on their issues any more than he could in Cairo. "The best he can do is sit there and listen," as Michael Shifter, president of the Inter-American Dialogue, puts it.
The Obama administration has made some progress on Cuba, where Americans can now visit relatives and send remittances.
But the U.S. embargo of Cuba strikes Latin Americans as an absurd anachronism and a testimony to the political power of Cuban exiles in Florida -- which is exactly what it is. Immigration reform is one of those issues -- one of the many, many issues -- that hopeful souls believe that Obama will address in his wished-for second term. And drugs pose a catastrophic problem for both the United States and its southern neighbors. A former senior U.S. administration official insisted to me that the administration had begun a "paradigm shift on drugs," from a dominant focus on eradication and interdiction to a wider approach stressing alternative development, institution-building and public health.

The Latin American experts I talked to don't see nearly as dramatic a change. Most favor the decriminalization of marijuana, an emphasis on treatment, sharp reductions in drug eradication south of the border, and a narrower focus on gangs and high-level operatives. But they don't expect to see it happen anytime soon.
It's good to have the United States nearby when Americans are buying the cars you assemble and the fruit you grow, but it's bad when Americans are sucking up vast amounts of the cocaine you plant and transport.

Guatemala, as Stein puts it, has become a "service station of illegality," its institutions corrupted, its streets terrifying. Guatemala has 41 murders per 100,000 people; the rate in Honduras is double that. (In the United States, it's five.) Whatever progress these countries make is being undermined by an increasingly violent narco trade; they, not the United States, bear the brunt of the United States' endless war on drugs. The weakness and corruption of Central American states is as much to blame as the U.S. appetite, but that's only to say that any solution, or even mitigation, of the problem will require collective decision-making and action.


Posted by a DCJ "douchebag"

[annata]

Seems like it though, how do you explain how suddenly a fucking bus load of them show up all at once?It's the wet foot policy. came here to wipe some mud off my feet, once I have 1 foot on land. I can't be deported -same as our Cuban policy.

[Conley]

Don't worry, Cap'n just doing his usual routine to make newbies feel welcome. :wink:

Good article, but why the reference to DCJ? That didn't read like a forum post.

[annata]

Don't worry, Cap'n just doing his usual routine to make newbies feel welcome. :wink:

Good article, but why the reference to DCJ? That didn't read like a forum post.
I added the "DCJ" douchebag" since Captian Oblivious, was slamming all the "douchebags" that joined here.
I'm from DCJ. I hope you understood the "wet foot" policy, that is our actual law for Cubans.

Only Cubans cannot be deported, if they make it to US shores (on dry land.)
U.S.-Cuba Migration Policy










By Jefferson Morley
washingtonpost.com Staff Writer
Friday, July 27, 2007; 3:02 PM What is the "wet-foot, dry-foot" policy?
This is the informal named given to a 1995 agreement under which Cuban migrants seeking passage to the United States who are intercepted at sea ("wet feet") are sent back to Cuba or to a third country, while those who make it to U.S. soil ("dry feet") are allowed to remain in the United States. The policy, formally known as the U.S.-Cuba Immigration Accord (http://www.state.gov/www/regions/wha/cuba/fs_000828_migration_accord.html), has been written into law as an amendment to the 1966 Cuban Adjustment Act (http://www.state.gov/www/regions/wha/cuba/fs_adjustment_act.html).
How does the Coast Guard enforce this policy?
The Coast Guard uses patrol boats, cutters and aircraft to patrol the seas and skies around southern Florida. Cubans intercepted at sea are interviewed by the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service, which decides whether they have a well-founded fear of persecution and are thus eligible for asylum in a third country. If not, they are repatriated to Cuba.
What happens to Cubans who make it to U.S. soil?
After one year, they are eligible to apply for a change in legal status that makes them eligible for an immigrant visa, permanent residence, and eventually, U.S. citizenship. The policy applies to undocumented aliens from Cuba only. Undocumented Haitian or Dominican migrants who reach U.S. shores are not automatically eligible for immigrant visas, or permanent residence -- only Cubans.
What happens to migrants returned to Cuba?
In 1994, Cuba agreed to not take action against returnees as a consequence of their attempt to emigrate illegally, as long as they did not face other criminal charges. The U.S. Interests Section monitors Cuban compliance with this provision by visiting the returnees throughout Cuba. In 2006, the State Department reported that "in practice some would-be migrants experienced harassment and discrimination," citing one example. Cuba notes that illegal immigration is a crime under Cuban law. Related: 2007 Report on Cuba (http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2006/78887.htm) by Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor.
Do we know how many die trying to get here?
Nobody knows for sure. Neither the Coast Guard nor the State Department nor human rights groups keep statistics on Cuban fatalities at sea. During the balsero crisis of 1994, there were estimates that anywhere from 25 percent to 75 percent of all those who attempt to migrate were dying at sea. As human smugglers have begun using more sophisticated boats in recent years, fatalities at sea may have begun to decrease, but no one really knows.
How might restrictions change in the future?
The "wet foot, dry foot" policy, while resented by Cuba, has served the interests of both countries for more than a decade. It has prevented a recurrence of the massive, uncontrolled migration that the United States fears, and it has established the kind of more normal migration arrangements that Cuba seeks. The U.S. Congress is debating more modest proposals to loosen the current ban on travel between the United States and Cuba. But changes in migration policy probably depend on changes in the larger relationship between Washington and Havana.

[Conley]

Ah, I didn't realize you were from over there. Interesting stuff about the Cuban policy, I didn't realize they were exempt from deportation. Crazy.

[annata]

Ah, I didn't realize you were from over there. Interesting stuff about the Cuban policy, I didn't realize they were exempt from deportation. Crazy. LOL I changed my username, i'm sure ppl can figure it out, only 3 Buddhists at DCJ, and the other 2 are women.

Both sites have some advantages, but the "brain drain" over there caused me to post here more.
Smaller boards are more inclusive, and less obnoxious idjits - I'm not calling ANYONE here an idjit -from what i've seen the posters are well thought out.

DCJ has many more members, but quantity doesn't always equate with quality. nor does it preclude it.

Glad to see some old friends here too, and new one's like you! :grin:

[BlackAsCoal]

We should demand compensation for all of the US investment that was nationalized during the Cuban revolution first.

They should demand compensation for all the horror the US brought to Cuba.

[Captain Obvious]

They should demand compensation for all the horror the US brought to Cuba.

We've been paying "compensation" for decades, unfortunately.

[Mainecoons]

I really thought Obama would move to get rid of this stupid Cuba embargo. Wrong again. This guy needs to spend less time vacationing and more time actually doing something useful.

[MMC]

I really thought Obama would move to get rid of this stupid Cuba embargo. Wrong again. This guy needs to spend less time vacationing and more time actually doing something useful.


Well.....he is not good at golf plus they say he don't know how to bowl. :grin: