Obama Has 10 times More money than Romney.....

[MMC]

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/DkuImH1EhL16nZbdQ8OZIg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTMxMA--/http://cdn.theatlanticwire.com/img/upload/2012/04/20/AP120418154395/large.jpg

President Obama released his March fundraising totals (http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/dcdev/forms/C00431445/780234/) Friday afternoon, and as The New York Times' (http://twitter.com/#!/nickconfessore/status/193433650887528448)Nick Confessore (https://twitter.com/#!/nickconfessore/status/193433650887528448) points out, he has $104 million cash on hand—10 times what Romney has. Obama raised $35 million last month. One of Obama's bundlers was Jack Rosen, who supported George W. Bush in 2004, BuzzFeed's (http://twitter.com/#!/BuzzFeedBen/status/193428881154379779)Ben Smith (https://twitter.com/#!/BuzzFeedBen/status/193428881154379779) reports. Rosen raised more than $500,000 (http://www.barackobama.com/2012-first-quarter-volunteer-fundraisers) for Obama.....snip~

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-10-times-more-money-romney-203942971.html

10 times more than Romeny has. Must come from those 35k plate dinners.....huh? Thats cash on hand. Wonder where all that money will go? Then he will head back out west to hit up those in Hollywood, again and again. Plus if he feels threatened. I am sure Gates will help find him a way thru it.

Rosen worked for Bush.....now go figure that. Huh?

[gophangover]

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/DkuImH1EhL16nZbdQ8OZIg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTMxMA--/http://cdn.theatlanticwire.com/img/upload/2012/04/20/AP120418154395/large.jpg

President Obama released his March fundraising totals (http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/dcdev/forms/C00431445/780234/) Friday afternoon, and as The New York Times' (http://twitter.com/#%21/nickconfessore/status/193433650887528448)Nick Confessore (https://twitter.com/#%21/nickconfessore/status/193433650887528448) points out, he has $104 million cash on hand—10 times what Romney has. Obama raised $35 million last month. One of Obama's bundlers was Jack Rosen, who supported George W. Bush in 2004, BuzzFeed's (http://twitter.com/#%21/BuzzFeedBen/status/193428881154379779)Ben Smith (https://twitter.com/#%21/BuzzFeedBen/status/193428881154379779) reports. Rosen raised more than $500,000 (http://www.barackobama.com/2012-first-quarter-volunteer-fundraisers) for Obama.....snip~

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-10-times-more-money-romney-203942971.html

10 times more than Romeny has. Must come from those 35k plate dinners.....huh? Thats cash on hand. Wonder where all that money will go? Then he will head back out west to hit up those in Hollywood, again and again. Plus if he feels threatened. I am sure Gates will help find him a way thru it.

Rosen worked for Bush.....now go figure that. Huh?

Follow the money, that's what politicians do....free speech don't ya know. I posted somewhere here yesterday that I got invited to George Clooney's house for a fund raiser, but can't remember where I posted it.

[annata]

Decision 2012 will be "nasty, brutish, and anything but short," writes (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/04/campaign-2012-will-be-nasty-brutish-and-anything-but-short/255892/) Molly Ball at the Atlantic - a "grinding blitzkrieg of negativity."
Plus, it'll be an expensive grinding blitzkreig.
Ball crunches the numbers from the Romney and Obama campaigns so far, and concludes that the amounts of money involved are "unfathomable": "enough to buy a whole fleet of $60 million fighter jets, or dwarf the GDP of a small nation like Tonga ($816 million)."

The Obama camp has already spent nearly half a billion on TV ads - and that's before the campaign has really got started. If you live in a swing state, the neverending commercials will be oppressive.

As for the negativity - how can the campaigns not go negative, with Democratic enthusiasm on the skids, and Republicans bent on getting Obama out of office, but utterly unenthused about their candidate? (Romney is, apparently, the most unpopular nominee in decades (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/19/is-mitt-romney-the-most-unpopular-presidential-nominee-ever.html)).
http://politix.topix.com/homepage/667-election-2012-a-billion-dollar-blitzkrieg

[gophangover]

Decision 2012 will be "nasty, brutish, and anything but short," writes (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/04/campaign-2012-will-be-nasty-brutish-and-anything-but-short/255892/) Molly Ball at the Atlantic - a "grinding blitzkrieg of negativity."
Plus, it'll be an expensive grinding blitzkreig.
Ball crunches the numbers from the Romney and Obama campaigns so far, and concludes that the amounts of money involved are "unfathomable": "enough to buy a whole fleet of $60 million fighter jets, or dwarf the GDP of a small nation like Tonga ($816 million)."

The Obama camp has already spent nearly half a billion on TV ads - and that's before the campaign has really got started. If you live in a swing state, the neverending commercials will be oppressive.

As for the negativity - how can the campaigns not go negative, with Democratic enthusiasm on the skids, and Republicans bent on getting Obama out of office, but utterly unenthused about their candidate? (Romney is, apparently, the most unpopular nominee in decades (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/19/is-mitt-romney-the-most-unpopular-presidential-nominee-ever.html)).
http://politix.topix.com/homepage/667-election-2012-a-billion-dollar-blitzkrieg

The 2016 election starts November 5th 2012.

[MMC]

Follow the money, that's what politicians do....free speech don't ya know. I posted somewhere here yesterday that I got invited to George Clooney's house for a fund raiser, but can't remember where I posted it.


Yeah I heard Clooney was going to hold a fundraiser for Obama. He wants to whisper in Obama's ear about Darfur. I think Conley had up a piece about Obama's Fundraiser in California with a dinner plate of 35k. Distinct clientele too. Plus it does mention the money he has already spent getting in his little pot-shots and some more of those promises he won't keep.

[MMC]

Decision 2012 will be "nasty, brutish, and anything but short," writes (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/04/campaign-2012-will-be-nasty-brutish-and-anything-but-short/255892/) Molly Ball at the Atlantic - a "grinding blitzkrieg of negativity."
Plus, it'll be an expensive grinding blitzkreig.
Ball crunches the numbers from the Romney and Obama campaigns so far, and concludes that the amounts of money involved are "unfathomable": "enough to buy a whole fleet of $60 million fighter jets, or dwarf the GDP of a small nation like Tonga ($816 million)."

The Obama camp has already spent nearly half a billion on TV ads - and that's before the campaign has really got started. If you live in a swing state, the neverending commercials will be oppressive.

As for the negativity - how can the campaigns not go negative, with Democratic enthusiasm on the skids, and Republicans bent on getting Obama out of office, but utterly unenthused about their candidate? (Romney is, apparently, the most unpopular nominee in decades (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/19/is-mitt-romney-the-most-unpopular-presidential-nominee-ever.html)).
http://politix.topix.com/homepage/667-election-2012-a-billion-dollar-blitzkrieg



I see you was reading what the Atlantic had to say to. Mine wasnt by Molly.....

By Elspeth Reeve | The Atlantic Wire – Fri, Apr 20, 2012.....snip~

[Conley]

Yeah I heard Clooney was going to hold a fundraiser for Obama. He wants to whisper in Obama's ear about Darfur. I think Conley had up a piece about Obama's Fundraiser in California with a dinner plate of 35k. Distinct clientele too. Plus it does mention the money he has already spent getting in his little pot-shots and some more of those promises he won't keep.

Yes, but not just in CA. On the same day his Jobs Bill was before Congress Obama was down in Florida running a couple of these fundraisers.

[MMC]

Yes, but not just in CA. On the same day his Jobs Bill was before Congress Obama was down in Florida running a couple of these fundraisers.

Yeah I think he went to go talk the Brews and the golphers.

[wingrider]

I don't care if Obummer has 100 times more money than Romney,, I aint voting for Obama again, one wasted vote in a lifetime is enough.

[annata]

I see you was reading what the Atlantic had to say to. Mine wasnt by Molly.....

By Elspeth Reeve | The Atlantic Wire – Fri, Apr 20, 2012.....snip~I just knew the term "billion $ election", and googled it -that's just what i linked.

Ball crunches the numbers from the Romney and Obama campaigns so far, and concludes that the amounts of money involved are "unfathomable": "enough to buy a whole fleet of $60 million fighter jets I'm already"bombarded" I'm in Florida, been seeing obama adds for a few weeks now.

what a waste of money, and of course these ads aren't "positive" The "nattering nabobs of negativity" ( S. Agnew),
are now the political campaigns..

[BlackAsCoal]

I just knew the term "billion $ election", and googled it -that's just what i linked.
I'm already"bombarded" I'm in Florida, been seeing obama adds for a few weeks now.

what a waste of money, and of course these ads aren't "positive" The "nattering nabobs of negativity" ( S. Agnew),
are now the political campaigns..

The question is the same that many of those who voted for Obama must ask themselves.

Is America better off without him?

I'm on the real left .. and I say yes.

With him there is no opposition to what is destroying this nation.

Without him, democrats will grow a bit of spine and challenge all that they will not challenge with him in office .. such as the state of perpetual war we find ourselves in.

[Alias]

The question is the same that many of those who voted for Obama must ask themselves.

Is America better off without him?

I'm on the real left .. and I say yes.

With him there is no opposition to what is destroying this nation.

Without him, democrats will grow a bit of spine and challenge all that they will not challenge with him in office .. such as the state of perpetual war we find ourselves in.

The Democrat party needs to regroup and find out what they really represent. Principles or special interest groups.

[BlackAsCoal]

The Democrat party needs to regroup and find out what they really represent. Principles or special interest groups.

I'm in complete agreement with that.

[Captain Obvious]

BAC - welcome to the forum, you fucking jackhole.

[wingrider]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAdLruOIKmA
that reminds me LOL

[gophangover]

Without him, democrats will grow a bit of spine

That's funny, they never had one before. That's why they let Shrub and the cons get away with running this country into the ground for eight years before Obama.

[BlackAsCoal]

That's funny, they never had one before. That's why they let Shrub and the cons get away with running this country into the ground for eight years before Obama.

Not completely.

There was opposition to Bush on Iraq, the Patriot Act, bailouts, and much more. That opposition gained strength as we got further away from the fable of 9/11. There was always opposition from the real left .. as there is to Obama today.

Point being, democrats are every bit as partisan deaf-dumb-blind as are republicans. With Obama-love-for-nothing out of the way, democrats .. in all their weakness .. will at least remember why they stood against Iraq and for civil liberties.

[BlackAsCoal]

BAC - welcome to the forum, you fucking jackhole.

:0)

Given that you know me Captain Bob .. then surely you know that I don't give a rat's ass about insults.

[Captain Obvious]

:0)

Given that you know me Captain Bob .. then surely you know that I don't give a rat's ass about insults.

No doubt.

Lying, liberal, America-hating hypocrites have no shame.

[BlackAsCoal]

No doubt.

Lying, liberal, America-hating hypocrites have no shame.

:0)

Take all the time you need to concentrate on what you think about me .. but you may notice that I relish spending my time on issues .. not insecure and seriously unintellectual people who can't articulate their thoughts in conversation .. thus are resigned to spend all day on people they will never meet. I'm sure there must be some reptilian pleasure in such a silly ass thing .. but me .. I'm too smart for that. :0)

It's all about choices .. and capabilities brother.

[Captain Obvious]

:0)

Take all the time you need to concentrate on what you think about me .. but you may notice that I relish spending my time on issues .. not insecure and seriously unintellectual people who can't articulate their thoughts in conversation .. thus are resigned to spend all day on people they will never meet. I'm sure there must be some reptilian pleasure in such a silly ass thing .. but me .. I'm too smart for that. :0)

It's all about choices .. and capabilities brother.

Is that your pic in your avatar?

If so, do you have one of those Shrek ears?

[MMC]

The question is the same that many of those who voted for Obama must ask themselves.

Is America better off without him?

I'm on the real left .. and I say yes.

With him there is no opposition to what is destroying this nation.

Without him, democrats will grow a bit of spine and challenge all that they will not challenge with him in office .. such as the state of perpetual war we find ourselves in.

You actually think the Demos would grow a spine. Maybe if there was some real Democrats left. Not these ones who call themsleves such, These Neo-libs are all in tune with the Walk and step of the Neo-Cons. Granted there may be a few left. But the money is not there to fight within their own party. Same with the GOP. True Republicans can't compete money wise with the Neo Cons and Southerns Cons. Moreover Bildeberg will never cast a gazing eye on them. As they know their azz would be shit out of luck. Just like any other Foreign Groups attempting to derail what has been started here.

[BlackAsCoal]

You actually think the Demos would grow a spine. Maybe if there was some real Democrats left. Not these ones who call themsleves such, These Neo-libs are all in tune with the Walk and step of the Neo-Cons. Granted there may be a few left. But the money is not there to fight within their own party. Same with the GOP. True Republicans can't compete money wise with the Neo Cons and Southerns Cons. Moreover Bildeberg will never cast a gazing eye on them. As they know their azz would be shit out of luck. Just like any other Foreign Groups attempting to derail what has been started here.

Again I remind you of the undeniable opposition during the Bush years .. and, I am talking about democratic constituents, not politicians with the exception of a few.

But the onus on saving this country does not rest with democrats. Unless the American people demand taking the money and the corporate hand out of our government, it will not happen.

Such is the failure of capitalism .. such was the fate of Rome.

[MMC]

Again I remind you of the undeniable opposition during the Bush years .. and, I am talking about democratic constituents, not politicians with the exception of a few.

But the onus on saving this country does not rest with democrats. Unless the American people demand taking the money and the corporate hand out of our government, it will not happen.

Such is the failure of capitalism .. such was the fate of Rome.


You will get no argument out of me with what you stated there. Now if those who call themselves this. Can just figure that part out.
We might actually have a chance just to get things started.

[Stoney]

Again I remind you of the undeniable opposition during the Bush years .. and, I am talking about democratic constituents, not politicians with the exception of a few.

But the onus on saving this country does not rest with democrats. Unless the American people demand taking the money and the corporate hand out of our government, it will not happen.

Such is the failure of capitalism .. such was the fate of Rome.

"Unless the American people demand taking the money and the corporate hand out of our government, it will not happen."

I'm not sure of your reference to money, but would argue that the reason corporations have a hand in government is that government has the ability to legislate in ways to help individual corporations. The fact that some companies (GE) pay no corporate taxes while others do is a perfect example.

We need to "regulate" the potential of business to do harm. But the regulations should be in a form that affects every business equally so legislators don't have the ability to favor one business over another and business has no reason to support said legislators.

We want to change human nature, the nature to pursue self interest, to blame corporatism on business and hope that they will do what we see as "the right thing." Well, we can hope about that. But the solution is to remove the ability to do what we see as wrong.

[MMC]

Good Post Stoney. Have you gone over some of the other things I was talking about. Moreover people need to be bringing out what is being told to the American People now. By this Admistration and by this President. Lies, deceptions, unbroken promises, and no plans or solutions to solve the problems this country is facing.

Look at what Obama was saying about Ryans plan. That it was Un American? Social Darwism. All one need do is listen to Obama's remarks with the budget. Yet Obama knows What the Independant Experts say about the plan. That he has no solution or plans. When he proposed his budget last year it was shot down by his own Majority led Senate. Then it was shot down in the House. Both Parties and not one vote in favor of anything. Now the Independant Experts are the ones that are saying his numbers don't add up or do what he says they will do by his timetable.

[Stoney]

Good Post Stoney. Have you gone over some of the other things I was talking about. Moreover people need to be bringing out what is being told to the American People now. By this Admistration and by this President. Lies, deceptions, unbroken promises, and no plans or solutions to solve the problems this country is facing.

Look at what Obama was saying about Ryans plan. That it was Un American? Social Darwism. All one need do is listen to Obama's remarks with the budget. Yet Obama knows What the Independant Experts say about the plan. That he has no solution or plans. When he proposed his budget last year it was shot down by his own Majority led Senate. Then it was shot down in the House. Both Parties and not one vote in favor of anything. Now the Independant Experts are the ones that are saying his numbers don't add up or do what he says they will do by his timetable.

Politicians assume the electorate is unable to sort out the facts and reach reasonable solutions for good reason. I would say this campaign (already has) will take that fact to a new level. And the Ryan Plan is infinitely better than plans offered by Obama (and at least has some support.) But I think his plan acknowledges the fact that we're too stupid to be able to do what needs to be done, as, if memory serves, it doesn't even balance the budget until 2010.

I think it was Alexis de Tocqueville who said something to the effect that our form of government will not survive the electorate learning that they can vote themselves money from the public treasury. We've certainly reached that point and the rationalization of that as "social justice," as theft as being a good thing.

[BlackAsCoal]

"Unless the American people demand taking the money and the corporate hand out of our government, it will not happen."

I'm not sure of your reference to money, but would argue that the reason corporations have a hand in government is that government has the ability to legislate in ways to help individual corporations. The fact that some companies (GE) pay no corporate taxes while others do is a perfect example.

We need to "regulate" the potential of business to do harm. But the regulations should be in a form that affects every business equally so legislators don't have the ability to favor one business over another and business has no reason to support said legislators.

We want to change human nature, the nature to pursue self interest, to blame corporatism on business and hope that they will do what we see as "the right thing." Well, we can hope about that. But the solution is to remove the ability to do what we see as wrong.

I would argue that most of us who fight against corporatism as government understand that citizens should never "hope" for "the right thing." We understand that the right thing has to be legislated and rights must be demanded. In other words, we understand human nature better than you may think.

What must be removed is the corporate hand in American elections and government.

Those who don't understand the urgency of this most likely have no understanding of history. The history of the Robber Barons awaits them.

[MMC]

Not just the Corporations.....but the Media as well. They should not be allowed to influence the Politics of the day. Nor be in bed with them. Nor be running around this country acting like they are some sort of Aristocracy.

BTW Stoney.....the Ryan Plan balances the Budget by 2040. With the Obama plan it is a 45 degree slant that keeps rising up. Now The CBO stated Obamas plan does not balance the budget by any stretch of time. Ryans plan is to decrease the debt. Moreover Obama lied when he said it was about getting rid of Medicaid. Or That it would be the end of Social Social Security. In his speech last week he called the Cuts by Ryans plan draconian. Yet he had nothing to say about White Co-creating the plan.

Thats Where Ryan out-played this President. Obama should be the one taking the hit on this, despite the MS Media doing what they can to save his azz.

[OFBUACMKA]

The question is the same that many of those who voted for Obama must ask themselves.

Is America better off without him?

I'm on the real left .. and I say yes.

With him there is no opposition to what is destroying this nation.

Without him, democrats will grow a bit of spine and challenge all that they will not challenge with him in office .. such as the state of perpetual war we find ourselves in.

He IS 'what's destroying this nation"...

[Mainecoons]

Nope, Obama is just a symptom of what is destroying the U.S. As was Bush before him.

What is really destroying the U.S. is the idea you can have something for nothing, either in the form of entitlements paid for these days by printing money and also extorting it from half the population that is still paying taxes, or by the rampant criminal behavior of large public corporations and the financial "industry." America has changed from being a place where great things were invented and manufactured to create real wealth, to a nation of entitlement cattle and elitist thieves.



A substantial portion of the American people are destroying the U.S. As is always the case when great nations decline and die.

[MMC]

Nope, Obama is just a symptom of what is destroying the U.S. As was Bush before him.

What is really destroying the U.S. is the idea you can have something for nothing, either in the form of entitlements paid for these days by printing money and also extorting it from half the population that is still paying taxes, or by the rampant criminal behavior of large public corporations and the financial "industry." America has changed from being a place where great things were invented and manufactured to create real wealth, to a nation of entitlement cattle and elitist thieves.



A substantial portion of the American people are destroying the U.S. As is always the case when great nations decline and die.

2 separate and distinct ideaologies that will have to come to a head. Wherein there will be only one final solution.

[Stoney]

I would argue that most of us who fight against corporatism as government understand that citizens should never "hope" for "the right thing." We understand that the right thing has to be legislated and rights must be demanded. In other words, we understand human nature better than you may think.

What must be removed is the corporate hand in American elections and government.

Those who don't understand the urgency of this most likely have no understanding of history. The history of the Robber Barons awaits them.

You will never remove the "corporate hand" from American Elections and government as long as there is something that legislators can trade, to their advantage.

[Stoney]

Not just the Corporations.....but the Media as well. They should not be allowed to influence the Politics of the day. Nor be in bed with them. Nor be running around this country acting like they are some sort of Aristocracy.

BTW Stoney.....the Ryan Plan balances the Budget by 2040. With the Obama plan it is a 45 degree slant that keeps rising up. Now The CBO stated Obamas plan does not balance the budget by any stretch of time. Ryans plan is to decrease the debt. Moreover Obama lied when he said it was about getting rid of Medicaid. Or That it would be the end of Social Social Security. In his speech last week he called the Cuts by Ryans plan draconian. Yet he had nothing to say about White Co-creating the plan.

Thats Where Ryan out-played this President. Obama should be the one taking the hit on this, despite the MS Media doing what they can to save his azz.

I'd vote for Ryan's plan over Obama's, but neither does the job.

[MMC]

I'd vote for Ryan's plan over Obama's, but neither does the job.


Agreed there but like Ryan stated it was a plan to get the ball rolling. Not until there is a unified effort to change the tax system would there be real change seen.

[Stoney]

Agreed there but like Ryan stated it was a plan to get the ball rolling. Not until there is a unified effort to change the tax system would there be real change seen.

I understand. But I don't know to solve a problem that we (as a country) can't acknowledge.

I wish I was optimistic.

[MMC]

I understand. But I don't know to solve a problem that we (as a country) can't acknowledge.

I wish I was optimistic.

:laugh: Well truly I wouldn't want to put that all on you in the first place. I mean look how fast these guy's hair goes grey after a couple years in office. :shocked: :grin:

[Mainecoons]

2 separate and distinct ideaologies that will have to come to a head. Wherein there will be only one final solution.

Unfortunately, neither of the ideaologies represented by the two major parties is going to solve anything.

[BlackAsCoal]

He IS 'what's destroying this nation"...

No he isn't. He's a symptom of it .. and those symptoms can be found in thr Republican party as well.

[BlackAsCoal]

You will never remove the "corporate hand" from American Elections and government as long as there is something that legislators can trade, to their advantage.

Legislators can always find something to trade for their advantage.

What is required is serious campaign finance reform that come with jail time and immediate loss of office upon conviction.

It is corruption and should be treated as such.

[annata]

Legislators can always find something to trade for their advantage.

What is required is serious campaign finance reform that come with jail time and immediate loss of office upon conviction.

It is corruption and should be treated as such.difficult with CU. but the best way out of the influence of money on politics.
America: "perpetual wars -perpetual campaigns"- so much so it's hard to seperate the ideas.

[MMC]

Yes Obama is a sympton of it.....but currently he presents more of a problem as he has been unable to lead with even his own ideas. How is he able to hold dinners where the plates are 35k? Or 5 grand and up. How does that just work out with Campaign finance reform?

[BlackAsCoal]

Yes Obama is a sympton of it.....but currently he presents more of a problem as he has been unable to lead with even his own ideas. How is he able to hold dinners where the plates are 35k? Or 5 grand and up. How does that just work out with Campaign finance reform?

From what I can see Obama doesn't have any ideas that have not been handed to him. I have no idea what lies underneath all that fraud.

That being said, the republican opposition offers absolutely nothing .. not even common sense. Both are completely owned by their corporate masters, and without serious campaign finance reform, nothing changes. The only question is do Americans have the balls to demand it?

Do Americans have the courage to resist?

The lessons of 9/11 says no, we do not.

[Stoney]

Legislators can always find something to trade for their advantage.

What is required is serious campaign finance reform that come with jail time and immediate loss of office upon conviction.

It is corruption and should be treated as such.

More government is always the intuitive direction. But too much government is the problem.

[dadakarma]

More government is always the intuitive direction. But too much government is the problem.

Corporate-owned government is the problem.

[Stoney]

Corporate-owned government is the problem.

Less government would make it less owned.

[dadakarma]

Less government would make it less owned.

That would have zero effect on whether the People's interests were served.

[Stoney]

That would have zero effect on whether the People's interests were served.

Yes it would, even more than zero, much more than zero.

[dadakarma]

Yes it would, even more than zero, much more than zero.

How so?

[Stoney]

How so?

How would it not?

[dadakarma]

How would it not?

Because their priorities are still skewed to favor corporate interests whether there's 10 or 100 of them.

[Stoney]

I apologize for the dance.

Let me ask you to give this some thought. If congress was not able to enact laws that treated one business, company or person differently than another, then politicians would have no ability to give advantage to some over others and there would be no reason, no profit, for business to back politicians.

I'll have to admit that its a bit more complicated than that. But the source of the corruption, the collusion of business and government is that legislative ability.

[dadakarma]

I apologize for the dance.

Let me ask you to give this some thought. If congress was not able to enact laws that treated one business, company or person differently than another, then politicians would have no ability to give advantage to some over others and there would be no reason, no profit, for business to back politicians.

I'll have to admit that its a bit more complicated than that. But the source of the corruption, the collusion of business and government is that legislative ability.

I will definitely give this more thought for further discussion - but for now, one thing that stands out in your post is this:


there would be no reason, no profit, for business to back politicians.

Businesses backing politicians is what has led to the current level of corruption-on-steroids. Don't you agree?

[Stoney]

I will definitely give this more thought for further discussion - but for now, one thing that stands out in your post is this:



Businesses backing politicians is what has led to the current level of corruption-on-steroids. Don't you agree?

Sorry I'm not communicating better. Actually what I see is government getting too deep into controlling business and ending up using business to draft legislation. And legislators chose business to help draft legislation that help those legislators. So its the ability of government to help business that's the source of the problem. And I've been involved in this to the extent that I've been asked to help draft technical requirements for government bids. Maybe it would not surprise most that I used that access to give me an edge in the bidding process.

As an example, EPA has the ability to form rules and regulations relative to maintaining a certain level of air quality. I'm guessing, but it stands to reason they use the expertise of business to help draft the rules who in tern use that access to limit competition. Why not just make laws to define the limits of air pollution and just use the EPA to do random measurements of air quality and look for violators?

[dadakarma]

Sorry I'm not communicating better. Actually what I see is government getting too deep into controlling business and ending up using business to draft legislation. And legislators chose business to help draft legislation that help those legislators. So its the ability of government to help business that's the source of the problem. And I've been involved in this to the extent that I've been asked to help draft technical requirements for government bids. Maybe it would not surprise most that I used that access to give me an edge in the bidding process.

As an example, EPA has the ability to form rules and regulations relative to maintaining a certain level of air quality. I'm guessing, but it stands to reason they use the expertise of business to help draft the rules who in tern use that access to limit competition. Why not just make laws to define the limits of air pollution and just use the EPA to do random measurements of air quality and look for violators?

Well, thank you for your candor. I think what you describe has become SOP with legislators. My guess is that they won't simply define the limits because it will constrain those companies whose campaign funds promoted their careers. I think we're in agreement on most points; I see as the most obvious solution to get business money out of politics altogether and certainly a reversal of Citizens United. That would be a good start, but it would only be the beginning.

[MMC]

From what I can see Obama doesn't have any ideas that have not been handed to him. I have no idea what lies underneath all that fraud.

That being said, the republican opposition offers absolutely nothing .. not even common sense. Both are completely owned by their corporate masters, and without serious campaign finance reform, nothing changes. The only question is do Americans have the balls to demand it?

Do Americans have the courage to resist?

The lessons of 9/11 says no, we do not.

Since you know the SCOTUS made it's ruling on Campaign Finance Reform and tied such in with the 1st Amendment. Then you know that to do so will now affect the 1st Amendment.....Correct? Do you know what other areas of Free Speech it will affect in trying to remove the First?

[BlackAsCoal]

Since you know the SCOTUS made it's ruling on Campaign Finance Reform and tied such in with the 1st Amendment. Then you know that to do so will now affect the 1st Amendment.....Correct? Do you know what other areas of Free Speech it will affect in trying to remove the First?

The un-elected .. the SC .. does whatever their corporate masters tell them to do. The Constitition is open to any and every interpretation one can imagine. That's why we have special lawyers to "interpret" what was designed to be easily understood language and intent.

What is your interpretation of what will be affected by serious campaign finance reform .. which Americans MUST have to restore their authority?

[MMC]

The un-elected .. the SC .. does whatever their corporate masters tell them to do. The Constitition is open to any and every interpretation one can imagine. That's why we have special lawyers to "interpret" what was designed to be easily understood language and intent.

What is your interpretation of what will be affected by serious campaign finance reform .. which Americans MUST have to restore their authority?


With what I was listening to on this. One of the main problems has to do with the publications of works, printing, copy-writing,. Which would affect Newspapers and Op Eds. Radio Broadcasts. Especially with what Sanders is trying to push. Now with what Pelosi has stated about her backing this measure she sure was not thinking about the Constitution and We the People.

[BlackAsCoal]

With what I was listening to on this. One of the main problems has to do with the publications of works, printing, copy-writing,. Which would affect Newspapers and Op Eds. Radio Broadcasts. Especially with what Sanders is trying to push. Now with what Pelosi has stated about her backing this measure she sure was not thinking about the Constitution and We the People.

There is no two ways about it brother. Either one backs "We the People" or one backs the right of corporations to dominate your government. Even the framers were aware of the danger of Banking and corporations .. ie; corruption.

The Constitution is a living document. It is how it was designed to be. That was the wisdom of the framers.

Your politicians are owned. Do you think you can vote you way out of that box without CFR?

[MMC]

I am not saying that there shouldnt be any reform. There is no reason to reform the First Amendment like Sanders and Pelosi want done. If one looks at another legal recourse. Whoever is in power would have the abilty to stop any of the other parties from getting their message out. Which we do have that going while running a two-party system already. But it would be even more prevalent.

As then with what Pelosi was saying. Some committee would regulate such. Which is totally unacceptable. There is absolutely no reason to strike down the first. They want to change CFR.....they and we the people have to stand up and tell them. The answer lies in a different direction. Not that it can't be done. But not this way.

[wingrider]

There is no two ways about it brother. Either one backs "We the People" or one backs the right of corporations to dominate your government. Even the framers were aware of the danger of Banking and corporations .. ie; corruption.

The Constitution is a living document. It is how it was designed to be. That was the wisdom of the framers.

Your politicians are owned. Do you think you can vote you way out of that box without CFR? as long as the people are getting their Bread and Circus,, the politicians cando whatever they want.. Rome is a prime example..

[Alias]

There is no two ways about it brother. Either one backs "We the People" or one backs the right of corporations to dominate your government. Even the framers were aware of the danger of Banking and corporations .. ie; corruption.

The Constitution is a living document. It is how it was designed to be. That was the wisdom of the framers.

Your politicians are owned. Do you think you can vote you way out of that box without CFR?

What do you mean by "The Constitution is a living document"?

[Captain Obvious]

What do you mean by "The Constitution is a living document"?

Meaning it can be raped.

[wingrider]

What do you mean by "The Constitution is a living document"? good question,, in my opinion the Constitution is dead it just needs a dcent funeral.. the Patriot act and the NDAA along with the NSA have pretty much murdered that sucker

[MMC]

Nah.....it wasn't the NSA. You mean that wasted bureaucracy of DHS.

[wingrider]

been to an airport lately? the NSA.. violates the 4th and the 5th amendments every day

[MMC]

been to an airport lately? the NSA.. violates the 4th and the 5th amendments every day

Oh.....I thought that was the TSA. Rent-a-cops. They musta have down-graded the training. :laugh:

[Stoney]

There is no two ways about it brother. Either one backs "We the People" or one backs the right of corporations to dominate your government. Even the framers were aware of the danger of Banking and corporations .. ie; corruption.

The Constitution is a living document. It is how it was designed to be. That was the wisdom of the framers.

Your politicians are owned. Do you think you can vote you way out of that box without CFR?

"The Constitution is a living document. It is how it was designed to be. That was the wisdom of the framers."

I'd just love to see a direct reference for this assertion, maybe from James Madison or Alexander Hamilton in the Federalist Papers.

[coolwalker]

I don't care if Obummer has 100 times more money than Romney,, I aint voting for Obama again, one wasted vote in a lifetime is enough.

Good for you!