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Cigar
08-06-2014, 09:27 AM
A comprehensive investigation of voter impersonation finds 31 credible incidents out of one billion ballots cast

Voter ID laws are back in the news once again, with two new opinions (http://www.wicourts.gov/sc/opinion/DisplayDocument.pdf?content=pdf&seqNo=118665) from the Wisconsin Supreme Court late last week dealing with the state's ID requirement, which would allow people to vote only if they provide certain forms of government-issued ID. The Court made some minor changes to the law (http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/divided-court-upholds-wisconsins-voter-id-law-b99321108z1-269363811.html) but otherwise upheld it. However, the ID requirement is still on hold pending a federal lawsuit (http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/litigation/Frank.v.Walker.php).

Part of this litigation — and any rational debate about the issue generally — hinges on two things:costs and benefits (http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2017228). The costs of these sorts of laws vary, because the laws themselves differ from state to state (http://blog.constitutioncenter.org/2013/10/voter-id-update-the-diversity-in-the-details/) (some are far more burdensome than others). The ostensible benefits, though, are all the same. And in addressing these purported benefits, the Wisconsin Supreme Court blew it. Twice.

First, the court cited the idea that ID laws could enhance public confidence--that is, in theory, the laws might make us feel better about elections in that they might provide some security theater. It turns out, though, that this effect is hard to spot. People in states with more restrictive ID laws don’t generally feel better about their elections than people in more permissive states. People who think elections are being stolen, and people who think they’re not, each hold on to that opinion no matter what the governing ID rules in their area. The factor that really influences whether people think the elections are fair? Whether their preferred candidates win.

Second, the court said that ID laws can help stop fraud. It then cited an example of recent fraud … that ID laws aren’t designed to stop. Specifically, it mentioned a case in which a supporter of Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker was charged with 13 counts of election fraud, including "registering to vote in more than one place, voting where he didn't live, voting more than once in the same election, and providing false information to election officials," according to an account by Talking Points Memo. Wisconsin's ID law would not likely have prevented any of the alleged violations.

more
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/08/06/a-comprehensive-investigation-of-voter-impersonation-finds-31-credible-incidents-out-of-one-billion-ballots-cast/

:grin: NEXT!

PolWatch
08-06-2014, 09:32 AM
Alabama & Mississippi have both offered $1,000 to anyone who reports voter fraud. So far, no takers have been reported but its early yet....

Cigar
08-06-2014, 09:36 AM
Alabama & Mississippi have both offered $1,000 to anyone who reports voter fraud. So far, no takers have been reported but its early yet....


I'm surprised ... you'd think if it was real, people would be cashing in on Free Money.

But reporting and proving are two different things also.

Captain Obvious
08-06-2014, 09:38 AM
I'm surprised ... you'd think if it was real, people would be cashing in on Free Money.



They're doing that with legitimate voting now.

PolWatch
08-06-2014, 09:41 AM
the offer of a reward should help prove the need of voter id...one way or the the other.

Cigar
08-06-2014, 09:41 AM
They're doing that with legitimate voting now.


Good, then it should make it really easy to prove in the court of Law :wink:

Cigar
08-06-2014, 09:42 AM
the offer of a reward should help prove the need of voter id...one way or the the other.


Well we all know Republicans are really big on the Rule of Law so this should be a simple problem to fix ... if it's a real problem. :wink:

PolWatch
08-06-2014, 10:20 AM
The idea of voter id bothers me...its just a little too close to the days of poll taxes designed to keep minorities from voting. However, if voter fraud is an actual problem I'm all for making sure it stops.

Captain Obvious
08-06-2014, 10:24 AM
The idea of voter id bothers me...its just a little too close to the days of poll taxes designed to keep minorities from voting.

Can you elaborate? Not sure I understand your point.

PolWatch
08-06-2014, 10:36 AM
poll taxes & literacy tests were used in the Jim Crowe era to make sure the poor and/or uneducated blacks did not vote. It would not be difficult to make obtaining an ID difficult for poor or uneducated people to obtain one...simply locating the offices in an area difficult to get to would accomplish that. I suspect there are many people who distrust any government agency enough that requiring a card to vote would be something they would avoid (including those who claim sovereign citizenship). I live in the deep south and we don't have a good reputation for handling things like this fairly...I think I have good reason to feel uncomfortable.

Captain Obvious
08-06-2014, 10:37 AM
poll taxes & literacy tests were used in the Jim Crowe era to make sure the poor and/or uneducated blacks did not vote. It would not be difficult to make obtaining an ID difficult for poor or uneducated people to obtain one...simply locating the offices in an area difficult to get to would accomplish that. I suspect there are many people who distrust any government agency enough that requiring a card to vote would be something they would avoid (including those who claim sovereign citizenship). I live in the deep south and we don't have a good reputation for handling things like this fairly...I think I have good reason to feel uncomfortable.

How?

Aren't most states providing non-drivers ID free of charge for most poor/elderly people? Or many states?

PolWatch
08-06-2014, 10:39 AM
How?

Aren't most states providing non-drivers ID free of charge for most poor/elderly people? Or many states?

I think so...but the relatively low number of people who obtain them are proof of the problems I outlined above...

Captain Obvious
08-06-2014, 10:42 AM
I think so...but the relatively low number of people who obtain them are proof of the problems I outlined above...

But that's kind of wag-the-dog.

I'm guessing that if it were made mandatory after all the bed shitting was over people would go get their ID's and vote and life would continue.

PolWatch
08-06-2014, 10:46 AM
But that's kind of wag-the-dog.

I'm guessing that if it were made mandatory after all the bed shitting was over people would go get their ID's and vote and life would continue.

possibly, but I find it interesting the flack I got about gun licenses being a violation of our rights, yet, voter ID is apparently acceptable....makes me wonder if guns are more cherished than votes...

Cigar
08-06-2014, 07:39 PM
Can you elaborate? Not sure I understand your point.


Wouldn't expect you to understand or relate ... that's the point. :laugh:

Blackrook
08-06-2014, 08:20 PM
Cigar if you honestly think you can fool people into thinking there's been only 31 cases of voter fraud in 14 years then you are a bigger fool than I thought you were.

del
08-06-2014, 08:28 PM
Cigar if you honestly think you can fool people into thinking there's been only 31 cases of voter fraud in 14 years then you are a bigger fool than I thought you were.

you should be able to link up to the vast number of voter fraud cases that have been proven then.

i'll wait

Captain Obvious
08-06-2014, 08:32 PM
you should be able to link up to the vast number of voter fraud cases that have been proven then.

i'll wait

You won't need a snickers bar I'm guessing.

del
08-06-2014, 10:04 PM
You won't need a snickers bar I'm guessing.

mmmmmm, snickers