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Bob
08-07-2014, 07:32 PM
http://cis.org/USAPatriotAct-ImmigrationRelatedProvisions

The Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001 (USA PATRIOT Act), signed into law on October 26, represents the U.S. government’s primary legislative response to the terrorist attacks of September 11. Patterned after a proposal developed by the Department of Justice, this new law (Public Law No. 107-56) focuses mainly on reinforcing the arsenal of tools available to the Central Intelligence Agency, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and federal prosecutors for identifying and disabling terrorist networks operating both within and outside the United States.Despite the fact that U.S. immigration policy clearly is responsible for allowing foreign terrorists to enter the United States and conduct terrorist activities, the USA PATRIOT Act treats immigration policy almost as an afterthought. The immigration provisions included in this law reflect two persistent — and increasingly problematic — perceptions shared by many of our elected representatives and Justice Department officials: first, that the Immigration and Naturalization Service’s primary function is the admission of aliens into the United States, rather than the enforcement of the laws regulating such admissions; and second, that immigration policy is a political quagmire better left untouched.The first of these perceptions is reflected by the USA PATRIOT Act’s failure to recognize that enforcement of existing immigration laws is just as important in the war on terrorism as better foreign intelligence and more diligent prosecution of those with terrorist ties, and its failure to hold the INS accountable for such enforcement. The second perception is reflected throughout the immigration-related portions of the Act: Rather than requiring immediate action by the INS and the State Department, many provisions simply require studies of potential future actions. Instead of demanding that INS immediately implement certain programs enacted by Congress in 1996, the law requires progress reports.Undoubtedly, the USA PATRIOT Act contains a number of immigration provisions that will improve our ability to identify and either exclude or prosecute aliens with terrorist ties. It is equally clear, however, that this new law represents only a first step in the immigration-policy reforms that are necessary to combat terrorism effectively and to protect Americans from future terrorist attacks. A detailed summary of the law’s immigration-related provisions follows. The complete text of the law: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:HR03162:|TOM:/bss/d107query.html. (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:HR03162:|TOM:/bss/d107query.html|)Title I – Domestic SecuritySection 102 expresses the Sense of Congress condemning discrimination against Arab and Muslim Americans.Title II – SurveillanceSection 203 grants authority for grand jury and electronic, wire and oral interception information to be shared with immigration officials when a matter of foreign intelligence or counterintelligence is involved.Title III – Money LaunderingSection 326 requires the Secretary of the Treasury to establish a system by which banks can verify the identity of account holders and match their names against a list of known terrorists and terrorist organizations to prevent money laundering.Title IV – Protecting the BorderSubtitle A – Protecting the Northern Border
Section 402 authorizes a tripling of the number of Border Patrol personnel, Customs personnel, and immigration inspectors along the Northern Border and an additional $50 million each for Customs and INS to improve monitoring technology along the Northern Border.Section 403 grants INS and State Department personnel access to the FBI’s NCIC-III and the Wanted Persons File for the purpose of checking the criminal history of a visa applicant. INS and State would have access only to extracts from the actual databases, and would have to submit the visa applicant’s fingerprints in order to get the full criminal history. This section also instructs the Attorney General and the Secretary of State to develop and certify within two years of enactment a technology standard that can be used to verify the identity of visa applicants and that can be used as the basis of an integrated system that will verify identity at ports of entry and share information with other law enforcement agencies.Section 404 removes the existing restrictions on overtime pay for INS personnel.Section 405 requires the Attorney General to report to Congress on the feasibility of expanding the FBI’s Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System (IAFIS) to include visa applicants and visa holders wanted in connection with a criminal investigation, so they may be denied a visa or identified upon entry into or exit from the United States.Subtitle B – Enhanced Immigration Provisions
Section 411 broadens the grounds for excluding terrorists and aliens with ties to terrorist organizations. It authorizes the exclusion of the spouses and children of aliens who have committed acts linking them to terrorist organizations within the past five years and makes inadmissible any alien determined by the Attorney General and the Secretary of State to have been associated with a terrorist organization and who intends to commit terrorists acts in while in the United States. (Such aliens already are excludable under current law, since they are entering with the intent to engage in "unlawful activity.")Section 412 directs the Attorney General to detain any alien certified to be engaged in terrorist activities. It authorizes the Attorney General to certify any alien as a terrorist where there are reasonable grounds to believe that he is affiliated with a designated terrorist organization or engaged in terrorist activities. It requires the Attorney General to place such aliens in removal proceedings, charge them with a criminal offense or release them within seven days of taking them into custody. It authorizes the Attorney General to detain certified terrorists for additional periods of up to six months if their removal is unlikely in the near future and if the alien’s release will threaten national security or public safety. It limits judicial review of such detention to habeus corpus proceedings. Finally, it requires the Attorney General to report to Congress every six months on the number of certified aliens, the grounds for certification, their nationalities, the length of their detention, and the disposition of their cases.Section 413 authorizes the Secretary of State to share information in State’s visa-lookout database and, under certain circumstances, information on individual aliens with foreign governments in order to combat terrorism and trafficking in controlled substances, persons, or weapons.Section 414 expresses the Sense of Congress regarding the need to expedite implementation of the integrated entry and exit data system enacted in Section 110 of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act (IIRAIRA) of 1996. It requests that the Attorney General fully implement this system at airports, seaports, and land border ports "with all deliberate speed and as expeditiously as practicable." It directs the Attorney General to focus on the use of biometric technology and the development of tamper-resistant, machine-readable documents during the development stage of the entry and exit system. It requires that the resulting system be interfaced with law enforcement databases used by federal agencies to identify and detain individuals who pose a threat to U.S. security. Finally, it requires the Office of Homeland Security to report to Congress within 12 months on "the information that is needed from any United States agency to effectively screen visa applicants and applicants for admission to the United States to identify" terrorists and other dangerous aliens.Section 415 directs the Office of Homeland Security to participate in the development of the entry and exit system.Section 416 directs the Attorney General to implement fully and to expand the foreign student tracking system enacted in the 1996 IIRAIRA. It requires the student database to include information on the date and port of entry and it authorizes the Attorney General to permit flight schools, language training schools, and vocational schools to participate in the expanded program.Section 417 requires the Secretary of State annually to audit the implementation of the requirement that visa waiver countries issue machine-readable passports to their citizens. It advances the deadline by which countries must issue machine-readable passports in order to participate in the visa waiver program from 2007 to 2003, and it authorizes the Secretary of State to waive this requirement for countries that are "making progress toward" issuing machine-readable passports and have "taken appropriate measures to protect against misuse of current passports.Section 418 directs the Secretary of State to determine whether consular shopping – the practice of traveling to a third country to apply for a visa to the United States, in order to avoid tighter security practices in the Consulate in one’s home country – is a problem and to address it if it is.Subtitle C – Preservation of Immigration Benefits for Victims of Terrorism
Section 421 authorizes the Attorney General to grant special immigrant status (a category of legal permanent residence) to any alien for whom a petition for family- or employment-based legal permanent residence was filed and revoked because the petitioner, applicant, or alien beneficiary was killed or lost his or her job as a result of terrorist activities. It also authorizes special immigrant status for any alien who is the grandparent of a child, both of whose parents died as a result of terrorist activity, if either parent was a citizen, national, or lawful permanent resident of the United States on September 10, 2001.Section 422 automatically extends by up to one year the authorized period of stay for nonimmigrants who were disabled by the terrorist attacks, along with their spouses and children. It extends the authorized period of stay for nonimmigrants who were prevented from entering the United States because of the terrorist attacks and permits FY 2001 diversity lottery winners who were prevented from entering the United States by the terrorist attacks to enter during the first six months of FY 2002, but to be counted against the quotas for FY 2001. It also grants legal permanent residence to the spouse and children of any FY 2001 diversity lottery winner who died as a result of the terrorist attacks. Finally, it extends the grant of parole for any parolee who was out of the country and unable to return before his or her parole expired on or after September 11, 2001, and it extends for 30 days any period for voluntary departure that expired between September 11 and October 11, 2001.Section 423 permits aliens who entered the country as the spouses or minor children of U.S. citizens to retain immediate relative status, even though the citizen-sponsor died as a result of the terrorist attacks. It permits the spouses, children, and unmarried adult sons and daughters of lawful permanent residents, for whom immigration petitions have been filed, to retain their status as valid petitioners, even though the resident-alien petitioner died as a result of the terrorist attacks. It permits those spouses, children, and unmarried adult sons and daughters of lawful permanent residents for whom no petition was filed to file a petition on their own behalf for lawful permanent residence. It allows any alien who is the spouse or child of an alien killed in the terrorist attacks and who had applied for adjustment of status to lawful permanent residence to have the application adjudicated as if the death had not occurred. Finally, it waives the public charge grounds for inadmissibility for all aliens granted benefits under this section.Section 424 authorizes any alien whose 21st birthday occurred in September 2001 to be considered a minor child for an additional 90 days for purposes of adjudicating a petition or application for immigration benefits, Rosemary Jenks is Director of Governmental Relations at NumbersUSA.com. (http://www.numbersusa.com/)

Forced to shorten it. Check link for last part.

Peter1469
08-07-2014, 07:38 PM
Let's visit grammar and learn paragraphs.

del
08-07-2014, 07:42 PM
white space is your friend

obligatory on topic content: the patriot act is one of the worst travesties perpetrated on the american people.

Bob
08-07-2014, 07:46 PM
Let's visit grammar and learn paragraphs.

This system posted it that way. I copied the original text and changed nothing other than shortening it to fit the 15,000 word limit.

Bob
08-07-2014, 07:47 PM
white space is your friend

obligatory on topic content: the patriot act is one of the worst travesties perpetrated on the american people.

Which part are you slamming?

Peter1469
08-07-2014, 07:49 PM
This system posted it that way. I copied the original text and changed nothing other than shortening it to fit the 15,000 word limit.
We have lots of younger members who can't ready anything of length.

But this lack of paragraphs threw me for a loop. Sorry.

del
08-07-2014, 07:50 PM
Which part are you slamming?

all of it

Blackrook
08-07-2014, 08:12 PM
What I like is the name "USA Patriot Act." What that means, is if you're against this law, you're not a "patriot." So really, you have no choice if you're a politician but to vote for it because otherwise you're not a "patriot." So the vote in the Senate was 98-1. 98 Senators proved that they are "patriots" and only one Senator was willing to admit he wasn't.

Peter1469
08-07-2014, 08:25 PM
Basically, the patriot act was meant to give law enforcement the same tools to fight terrorism that it already had to fight the mob.

It was abused.

Blackrook
08-07-2014, 08:57 PM
The government abusing power? Color me surprised.

MrJimmyDale
08-07-2014, 09:43 PM
It was abused.
Say it ain't so.............

Libhater
08-07-2014, 09:53 PM
Basically, the patriot act was meant to give law enforcement the same tools to fight terrorism that it already had to fight the mob.

It was abused.

In what way exactly was it abused?

PolWatch
08-07-2014, 09:55 PM
pick a search engine, type "abuses of patriot act", pick your favorite

Bob
08-07-2014, 10:38 PM
Basically, the patriot act was meant to give law enforcement the same tools to fight terrorism that it already had to fight the mob.

It was abused.

I have long believed it was assembled so fast since it was modeled on RICO. Do you agree?

Abused, that would not be by government, but by various types that draw a paycheck from Government.

Cops abuse too but we don't say due to that we hate a law.

Bob
08-07-2014, 10:40 PM
pick a search engine, type "abuses of patriot act", pick your favorite

i gave you facts. Why look for trouble? We all know that because it is on the internet, it is 100 percent true. :rollseyes:My post was factual. Each time I ask for what is wrong with it, I am told to Google.

Libhater
08-08-2014, 06:15 AM
i gave you facts. Why look for trouble? We all know that because it is on the internet, it is 100 percent true. :rollseyes:My post was factual. Each time I ask for what is wrong with it, I am told to Google.

There is abuse in every government organization, amendments, policies etc. Overall, I say the Patriot Act was and is a good Act. Those that mock it and or have problems with it would need to tell us what they would use to substitute for the Patriot Act--if anything at all. My guess is that those who hate the Act are either pacifists, extreme far leftists who would just soon be isolationists, or both.

Peter1469
08-08-2014, 02:27 PM
Yes, it was meant to give law enforcement the same tools used against the Mob for use against terrorists.


I have long believed it was assembled so fast since it was modeled on RICO. Do you agree?

Abused, that would not be by government, but by various types that draw a paycheck from Government.

Cops abuse too but we don't say due to that we hate a law.

Bob
08-08-2014, 02:33 PM
Yes, it was meant to give law enforcement the same tools used against the Mob for use against terrorists.




http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Bob http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=717699#post717699)
I have long believed it was assembled so fast since it was modeled on RICO. Do you agree?

Abused, that would not be by government, but by various types that draw a paycheck from Government.

Cops abuse too but we don't say due to that we hate a law.



RICO has hurt innocent people but so far it has stood the test of time.

I believe once people grasp Patriot is to defeat terrorists, they might quieten down.

Bob
08-08-2014, 02:42 PM
There is abuse in every government organization, amendments, policies etc. Overall, I say the Patriot Act was and is a good Act. Those that mock it and or have problems with it would need to tell us what they would use to substitute for the Patriot Act--if anything at all. My guess is that those who hate the Act are either pacifists, extreme far leftists who would just soon be isolationists, or both.

It gets called a terrible law yet nobody can explain to me what is wrong with it.

I know how RICO works as well and when it came out it was poorly used by law enforcement.

It treated the apparently innocent guilty as if they did wrong.

i can give actual examples.

Take the landlord who rented to a person caught by RICO. The law allowed the landlords home to be seized by law since it was used in the commission of crimes. I am not sure if that stands today or not.

donttread
08-08-2014, 07:13 PM
http://cis.org/USAPatriotAct-ImmigrationRelatedProvisions

The Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001 (USA PATRIOT Act), signed into law on October 26, represents the U.S. government’s primary legislative response to the terrorist attacks of September 11. Patterned after a proposal developed by the Department of Justice, this new law (Public Law No. 107-56) focuses mainly on reinforcing the arsenal of tools available to the Central Intelligence Agency, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and federal prosecutors for identifying and disabling terrorist networks operating both within and outside the United States.Despite the fact that U.S. immigration policy clearly is responsible for allowing foreign terrorists to enter the United States and conduct terrorist activities, the USA PATRIOT Act treats immigration policy almost as an afterthought. The immigration provisions included in this law reflect two persistent — and increasingly problematic — perceptions shared by many of our elected representatives and Justice Department officials: first, that the Immigration and Naturalization Service’s primary function is the admission of aliens into the United States, rather than the enforcement of the laws regulating such admissions; and second, that immigration policy is a political quagmire better left untouched.The first of these perceptions is reflected by the USA PATRIOT Act’s failure to recognize that enforcement of existing immigration laws is just as important in the war on terrorism as better foreign intelligence and more diligent prosecution of those with terrorist ties, and its failure to hold the INS accountable for such enforcement. The second perception is reflected throughout the immigration-related portions of the Act: Rather than requiring immediate action by the INS and the State Department, many provisions simply require studies of potential future actions. Instead of demanding that INS immediately implement certain programs enacted by Congress in 1996, the law requires progress reports.Undoubtedly, the USA PATRIOT Act contains a number of immigration provisions that will improve our ability to identify and either exclude or prosecute aliens with terrorist ties. It is equally clear, however, that this new law represents only a first step in the immigration-policy reforms that are necessary to combat terrorism effectively and to protect Americans from future terrorist attacks. A detailed summary of the law’s immigration-related provisions follows. The complete text of the law: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:HR03162:|TOM:/bss/d107query.html. (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:HR03162:|TOM:/bss/d107query.html|)Title I – Domestic SecuritySection 102 expresses the Sense of Congress condemning discrimination against Arab and Muslim Americans.Title II – SurveillanceSection 203 grants authority for grand jury and electronic, wire and oral interception information to be shared with immigration officials when a matter of foreign intelligence or counterintelligence is involved.Title III – Money LaunderingSection 326 requires the Secretary of the Treasury to establish a system by which banks can verify the identity of account holders and match their names against a list of known terrorists and terrorist organizations to prevent money laundering.Title IV – Protecting the BorderSubtitle A – Protecting the Northern Border
Section 402 authorizes a tripling of the number of Border Patrol personnel, Customs personnel, and immigration inspectors along the Northern Border and an additional $50 million each for Customs and INS to improve monitoring technology along the Northern Border.Section 403 grants INS and State Department personnel access to the FBI’s NCIC-III and the Wanted Persons File for the purpose of checking the criminal history of a visa applicant. INS and State would have access only to extracts from the actual databases, and would have to submit the visa applicant’s fingerprints in order to get the full criminal history. This section also instructs the Attorney General and the Secretary of State to develop and certify within two years of enactment a technology standard that can be used to verify the identity of visa applicants and that can be used as the basis of an integrated system that will verify identity at ports of entry and share information with other law enforcement agencies.Section 404 removes the existing restrictions on overtime pay for INS personnel.Section 405 requires the Attorney General to report to Congress on the feasibility of expanding the FBI’s Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System (IAFIS) to include visa applicants and visa holders wanted in connection with a criminal investigation, so they may be denied a visa or identified upon entry into or exit from the United States.Subtitle B – Enhanced Immigration Provisions
Section 411 broadens the grounds for excluding terrorists and aliens with ties to terrorist organizations. It authorizes the exclusion of the spouses and children of aliens who have committed acts linking them to terrorist organizations within the past five years and makes inadmissible any alien determined by the Attorney General and the Secretary of State to have been associated with a terrorist organization and who intends to commit terrorists acts in while in the United States. (Such aliens already are excludable under current law, since they are entering with the intent to engage in "unlawful activity.")Section 412 directs the Attorney General to detain any alien certified to be engaged in terrorist activities. It authorizes the Attorney General to certify any alien as a terrorist where there are reasonable grounds to believe that he is affiliated with a designated terrorist organization or engaged in terrorist activities. It requires the Attorney General to place such aliens in removal proceedings, charge them with a criminal offense or release them within seven days of taking them into custody. It authorizes the Attorney General to detain certified terrorists for additional periods of up to six months if their removal is unlikely in the near future and if the alien’s release will threaten national security or public safety. It limits judicial review of such detention to habeus corpus proceedings. Finally, it requires the Attorney General to report to Congress every six months on the number of certified aliens, the grounds for certification, their nationalities, the length of their detention, and the disposition of their cases.Section 413 authorizes the Secretary of State to share information in State’s visa-lookout database and, under certain circumstances, information on individual aliens with foreign governments in order to combat terrorism and trafficking in controlled substances, persons, or weapons.Section 414 expresses the Sense of Congress regarding the need to expedite implementation of the integrated entry and exit data system enacted in Section 110 of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act (IIRAIRA) of 1996. It requests that the Attorney General fully implement this system at airports, seaports, and land border ports "with all deliberate speed and as expeditiously as practicable." It directs the Attorney General to focus on the use of biometric technology and the development of tamper-resistant, machine-readable documents during the development stage of the entry and exit system. It requires that the resulting system be interfaced with law enforcement databases used by federal agencies to identify and detain individuals who pose a threat to U.S. security. Finally, it requires the Office of Homeland Security to report to Congress within 12 months on "the information that is needed from any United States agency to effectively screen visa applicants and applicants for admission to the United States to identify" terrorists and other dangerous aliens.Section 415 directs the Office of Homeland Security to participate in the development of the entry and exit system.Section 416 directs the Attorney General to implement fully and to expand the foreign student tracking system enacted in the 1996 IIRAIRA. It requires the student database to include information on the date and port of entry and it authorizes the Attorney General to permit flight schools, language training schools, and vocational schools to participate in the expanded program.Section 417 requires the Secretary of State annually to audit the implementation of the requirement that visa waiver countries issue machine-readable passports to their citizens. It advances the deadline by which countries must issue machine-readable passports in order to participate in the visa waiver program from 2007 to 2003, and it authorizes the Secretary of State to waive this requirement for countries that are "making progress toward" issuing machine-readable passports and have "taken appropriate measures to protect against misuse of current passports.Section 418 directs the Secretary of State to determine whether consular shopping – the practice of traveling to a third country to apply for a visa to the United States, in order to avoid tighter security practices in the Consulate in one’s home country – is a problem and to address it if it is.Subtitle C – Preservation of Immigration Benefits for Victims of Terrorism
Section 421 authorizes the Attorney General to grant special immigrant status (a category of legal permanent residence) to any alien for whom a petition for family- or employment-based legal permanent residence was filed and revoked because the petitioner, applicant, or alien beneficiary was killed or lost his or her job as a result of terrorist activities. It also authorizes special immigrant status for any alien who is the grandparent of a child, both of whose parents died as a result of terrorist activity, if either parent was a citizen, national, or lawful permanent resident of the United States on September 10, 2001.Section 422 automatically extends by up to one year the authorized period of stay for nonimmigrants who were disabled by the terrorist attacks, along with their spouses and children. It extends the authorized period of stay for nonimmigrants who were prevented from entering the United States because of the terrorist attacks and permits FY 2001 diversity lottery winners who were prevented from entering the United States by the terrorist attacks to enter during the first six months of FY 2002, but to be counted against the quotas for FY 2001. It also grants legal permanent residence to the spouse and children of any FY 2001 diversity lottery winner who died as a result of the terrorist attacks. Finally, it extends the grant of parole for any parolee who was out of the country and unable to return before his or her parole expired on or after September 11, 2001, and it extends for 30 days any period for voluntary departure that expired between September 11 and October 11, 2001.Section 423 permits aliens who entered the country as the spouses or minor children of U.S. citizens to retain immediate relative status, even though the citizen-sponsor died as a result of the terrorist attacks. It permits the spouses, children, and unmarried adult sons and daughters of lawful permanent residents, for whom immigration petitions have been filed, to retain their status as valid petitioners, even though the resident-alien petitioner died as a result of the terrorist attacks. It permits those spouses, children, and unmarried adult sons and daughters of lawful permanent residents for whom no petition was filed to file a petition on their own behalf for lawful permanent residence. It allows any alien who is the spouse or child of an alien killed in the terrorist attacks and who had applied for adjustment of status to lawful permanent residence to have the application adjudicated as if the death had not occurred. Finally, it waives the public charge grounds for inadmissibility for all aliens granted benefits under this section.Section 424 authorizes any alien whose 21st birthday occurred in September 2001 to be considered a minor child for an additional 90 days for purposes of adjudicating a petition or application for immigration benefits, Rosemary Jenks is Director of Governmental Relations at NumbersUSA.com. (http://www.numbersusa.com/)

Forced to shorten it. Check link for last part.

The "Unpatriot Act" is about control not security. If they were really worried about security they would at least try to seal the border

Bob
08-08-2014, 07:27 PM
The "Unpatriot Act" is about control not security. If they were really worried about security they would at least try to seal the border

Yes, to control terrorists.

donttread
08-08-2014, 08:26 PM
Yes, to control terrorists.

Keep drinkin the coolaid

Bob
08-08-2014, 08:27 PM
Keep drinkin the coolaid

See, that disgusts me. That is not an argument.


Don't be shy. Tell us all just what portion of Patriot act you find fault with.

donttread
08-08-2014, 08:30 PM
Basically, the patriot act was meant to give law enforcement the same tools to fight terrorism that it already had to fight the mob.

It was abused.

It was abusive on its face. I refuse to accept national security as an excuse to re write the Constitution when we don't even try to seal the border. It is a ridiculous defense of control oriented legislation

Peter1469
08-08-2014, 08:34 PM
The man who drafted the Patriot act agrees with you. That circles back to my posts above.....

It was abusive on its face. I refuse to accept national security as an excuse to re write the Constitution when we don't even try to seal the border. It is a ridiculous defense of control oriented legislation

Bob
08-08-2014, 08:35 PM
It was abusive on its face. I refuse to accept national security as an excuse to re write the Constitution when we don't even try to seal the border. It is a ridiculous defense of control oriented legislation

Which section, what quote are you using to make that claim?

We can't catch terrorists if the rest of us believe the law is flawed.

I have asked many people to quote me the part they can't stand.

Nobody will.

I posted a good argument for it in post number 1.

del
08-08-2014, 09:20 PM
the next good argument you post will be the first one.

"i'm old" isn't an argument

Bob
08-08-2014, 09:23 PM
the next good argument you post will be the first one.

"i'm old" isn't an argument

Del, you are delusional. My arguments, including the first in this topic are good arguments.

Rather than whine at me, explain the part of patriot you are against? It is in post one with the full link.

del
08-08-2014, 09:28 PM
Del, you are delusional. My arguments, including the first in this topic are good arguments.

Rather than whine at me, explain the part of patriot you are against? It is in post one with the full link.

i'm not whining.

all of it.

what part of that triggers your dementia?

donttread
08-09-2014, 08:49 AM
Which section, what quote are you using to make that claim?

We can't catch terrorists if the rest of us believe the law is flawed.

I have asked many people to quote me the part they can't stand.

Nobody will.

I posted a good argument for it in post number 1.

How about the part where they can detain American citizens without their Constitutional due process rights?

donttread
08-09-2014, 08:50 AM
Del, you are delusional. My arguments, including the first in this topic are good arguments.

Rather than whine at me, explain the part of patriot you are against? It is in post one with the full link.

Why don't you explain the parts you support?