‘Burn in hell’: Christians respond on Facebook to AL atheist with death threats

[Captain Obvious]

Still have your rusty blade handy Mister D ?

:biglaugh:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/10/burn-in-hell-christians-respond-on-facebook-to-al-atheist-with-death-threats-hatred/


“FACEBOOK QUESTION: What are your thoughts on a local woman who wants to see an Athiest motto placed next to the words “In God We Trust” at Government Plaza?,” WKRG posted (https://www.facebook.com/WKRG.News.5/photos/a.398318362499.177226.275851267499/10152610336087500/?type=1&comment_id=10152610682007500&ref=notif&notif_t=like).

What followed were several thousand comments — many deleted now– attacking Scott, wishing for her death, telling her to leave the country, and criticizing her appearance.

Byron Cruthirds (https://www.facebook.com/byron.cruthirds?fref=ufi) wrote: “Take her Atheist self somewhere else. This is One Nation Under God!,” while Jessica Marlowe McPherson (https://www.facebook.com/jlowe0919?fref=ufi) added, ” Always something. Gays want gay rights, blacks have black history month, and so on. But you let Christians preach or want something posted about GOD somewhere and its horrible! But least I know when he comes back I won’t be left here to deap w (sic) all the horrible things!”



http://www.rawstory.com/rs/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Angry-young-Christian-man-via-Shutterstock-615x345.jpg

[countryboy]

Some people are so gullible.

[hanger4]

Who decided all these posters were Christian ?? The very posts themselves allay that point.

[pjohns]

The comments listed strike me as being intemperate and uncharitable--not to mention intellectually unimpressive--but the fact remains that these people have been provoked.

One can, therefore, certainly understand their visceral response, without necessarily wishing to embrace every aspect of it.

[Green Arrow]

It never ceases to amuse me that whenever fringe individuals in a group act out, the Christians are the first to cry out against the whole group, but then the same tactic is turned on them and suddenly it IS a radical fringe and how dare you generalize the whole group.

[PolWatch]

ah...Sweet Home Alabama

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee230/piquiqts/protectmejesus.jpg

[PolWatch]

Who decided all these posters were Christian ?? The very posts themselves allay that point.

As a resident of the area, I have no doubt these people are Christians....or at least, their version of Christians. Just as the Jesuits were considered the warrior priests, southern Christians are the Rabid Protestants.

[Libhater]

It said this atheist woman had committed one of the deadly sins of gluttony. This bitch couldn't have been Rosie O'Donnell, now could it?

[countryboy]

It never ceases to amuse me that whenever fringe individuals in a group act out, the Christians are the first to cry out against the whole group, but then the same tactic is turned on them and suddenly it IS a radical fringe and how dare you generalize the whole group.
It never ceases to amaze me how some people harp on generalizations by using generalizations. :rolleyes:

[Captain Obvious]

Smells like Christianity

[Green Arrow]

It never ceases to amaze me how some people harp on generalizations by using generalizations. :rolleyes:

Yes, it's called using irony to prove a point. What you are complaining about is not my actions, but your own. Like how you whine when people generalize Christians or conservatives, but constantly generalize your opponents.

[countryboy]

Smells like a flame bait troll fest.

[countryboy]

Yes, it's called using irony to prove a point. What you are complaining about is not my actions, but your own. Like how you whine when people generalize Christians or conservatives, but constamtly generalize your opponents.
Though it Paines me to say it, your hypocrisy apparently knows no bounds.

[Captain Obvious]

Smells like a flame bait troll fest.

Yeah, and you swallowed the hook there, Gomer.

:biglaugh:

[Alyosha]

If you don't believe in Hell why would you be offended that someone told you to go there? This sounds attention-seeking to me. I don't believe in Valhalla (although it sounds cool) so if someone told me they hoped I was killed over and over again there I'd be all, "That's nice, thanks."

[Captain Obvious]

If you don't believe in Hell why would you be offended that someone told you to go there? This sounds attention-seeking to me. I don't believe in Valhalla (although it sounds cool) so if someone told me they hoped I was killed over and over again there I'd be all, "That's nice, thanks."

lol! That's not the point.

[Alyosha]

lol! That's not the point.

I had this guy stop me in Dupont Circle as I was walking around with a gay friend and he tells us that homosexuals and idolators will go to Hell. Then he asks me (my Georgetown hoodie was on) if I knew that Catholics were idolators. I go, "Sure. Mary bless you." Then I made the sign of the cross at him and walked on.

I really don't care about words. Words aren't rocks.

When I was in Egypt I had some kids pelt me with rocks because my head was uncovered. I also had some men scare me by offering my husband animals for me. That is the type of religion that scares me, not people who think they're hot shit on Facebook.

[Captain Obvious]

I had this guy stop me in Dupont Circle as I was walking around with a gay friend and he tells us that homosexuals and idolators will go to Hell. Then he asks me (my Georgetown hoodie was on) if I knew that Catholics were idolators. I go, "Sure. Mary bless you." Then I made the sign of the cross at him and walked on.

I really don't care about words. Words aren't rocks.

When I was in Egypt I had some kids pelt me with rocks because my head was uncovered. I also had some men scare me by offering my husband animals for me. That is the type of religion that scares me, not people who think they're hot shit on Facebook.

I've made this statement before and I'll continue to make it, Christianity would be a lot more like radical Islam if we as a society didn't have the intolerance for radical religious kookery that we do.

Christianity was historically a lot like radical Islam is today in some senses.

But the hypocrisy here is, for "Christians" who are supposed to be loving and passive to show this much hate and intolerance... that's the issue and while nobody here to any significant degree is sawing off heads, there are a whole lot of un-Christian like "Christians" in our society.

[Captain Obvious]

I had this guy stop me in Dupont Circle as I was walking around with a gay friend and he tells us that homosexuals and idolators will go to Hell. Then he asks me (my Georgetown hoodie was on) if I knew that Catholics were idolators. I go, "Sure. Mary bless you." Then I made the sign of the cross at him and walked on.

I really don't care about words. Words aren't rocks.

When I was in Egypt I had some kids pelt me with rocks because my head was uncovered. I also had some men scare me by offering my husband animals for me. That is the type of religion that scares me, not people who think they're hot shit on Facebook.

Do you always refer to them as your "gay friends"?

:biglaugh:

(sorry, I'm an asshole, I know)

[Alyosha]

I've made this statement before and I'll continue to make it, Christianity would be a lot more like radical Islam if we as a society didn't have the intolerance for radical religious kookery that we do.

Don't believe it. Christianity has a basis of pacifism. Nowhere in the Gospels (unlike the Koran or Hebrew Bible) is violence advocated--in fact, it is shown to be satanic while pacifism and forgiveness is promoted. The books are the basis and the Gospels are nothing like the Koran or the Hebrew laws.

The nutjobs who act violent are the same people sucking the cock of Israel and are big into Old Testament garbage. The modern day Catholics are very anti-war, very much pacifists--especially since Vatican II, and since Catholics make up the largest Christian denomination you'd only see a scant few nutjobs out there and they'd be very much unsupported by the rest.



Christianity was historically a lot like radical Islam is today in some senses.


30,000 people were killed by the church of 600 years. If you say Christianity is like that then what the hell are governments? They kill more than 30k in a month. :)



But the hypocrisy here is, for "Christians" who are supposed to be loving and passive to show this much hate and intolerance... that's the issue and while nobody here to any significant degree is sawing off heads, there are a whole lot of un-Christian like "Christians" in our society.


Yes, well, everyone's a hypocrite in their own way. It's just we like Christians less here in the US because of the 1980s Evangelical push. No one likes to be told not to be sexual. Humans like sex.

I just see a lot of artifice in some of these arguments to make a mountain out of a molehill. We are soooo not a Christian nation. Look at the single parent birth rates, the divorce rate, the religion-free zones. Worrying about the opinions of a (mostly protestant) group is a waste of time when the real authoritarianism is coming from the left.

Tell me I'm going to Hell and I don't care. Tell me I'm going to jail for smoking pot and that's different.

[Mister D]

He'll believe it even though there is no reason to. :smiley:

[kilgram]

Don't believe it. Christianity has a basis of pacifism. Nowhere in the Gospels (unlike the Koran or Hebrew Bible) is violence advocated--in fact, it is shown to be satanic while pacifism and forgiveness is promoted. The books are the basis and the Gospels are nothing like the Koran or the Hebrew laws.

The nutjobs who act violent are the same people sucking the cock of Israel and are big into Old Testament garbage. The modern day Catholics are very anti-war, very much pacifists--especially since Vatican II, and since Catholics make up the largest Christian denomination you'd only see a scant few nutjobs out there and they'd be very much unsupported by the rest.



30,000 people were killed by the church of 600 years. If you say Christianity is like that then what the hell are governments? They kill more than 30k in a month. :)




Yes, well, everyone's a hypocrite in their own way. It's just we like Christians less here in the US because of the 1980s Evangelical push. No one likes to be told not to be sexual. Humans like sex.

I just see a lot of artifice in some of these arguments to make a mountain out of a molehill. We are soooo not a Christian nation. Look at the single parent birth rates, the divorce rate, the religion-free zones. Worrying about the opinions of a (mostly protestant) group is a waste of time when the real authoritarianism is coming from the left.
I hate this kind of comments. I was going to ignore the conversation.

But what the hell are you talking about authoritarianism is coming from the left? The right is not authoritarian? I must remember you that many of the greatest supporters of dictatorships and authoritarian governments have been rightist like Milton Friedman, Hayek, Thatcher, Ronald Reagan. All them examples of authoritarian ideologues that applied their authoritarism and in the typical rightist hypocrise called them "Libertarians" and defenders of freedom. LOL.

Authoritarianism is in all the sides and today is mainly in the centrist to right, because the left is unexistent in this globalized world.


Tell me I'm going to Hell and I don't care. Tell me I'm going to jail for smoking pot and that's different.
The religious extremists don't do anything because they don't have power. It has explained one hundred times that is thanks to the secularism. We are living in more or less secular societies (American less and for this you have those fringe extremist groups like the Evangelism).

[Mister D]

I hate this kind of comments. I was going to ignore the conversation.

But what the hell are you talking about authoritarianism is coming from the left? The right is not authoritarian? I must remember you that many of the greatest supporters of dictatorships and authoritarian governments have been rightist like Milton Friedman, Hayek, Thatcher, Ronald Reagan. All them examples of authoritarian ideologues that applied their authoritarism and in the typical rightist hypocrise called them "Libertarians" and defenders of freedom. LOL.

Authoritarianism is in all the sides and today is mainly in the centrist to right, because the left is unexistent in this globalized world.

The religious extremists don't do anything because they don't have power. It has explained one hundred times that is thanks to the secularism. We are living in more or less secular societies (American less and for this you have those fringe extremist groups like the Evangelism).

^^^ This from a guy sporting a propaganda poster from a regime that brutally tortured and murdered thousands of Catholic clergy and many more lay people.

[Captain Obvious]

Don't believe it. Christianity has a basis of pacifism.

Yeah, those were some real pacifist replies on FB.

:biglaugh:

[PolWatch]

I did not mean for anyone to think that all southern Christians behave like the kooks in the OP. They don't. However, we do have a good sized population of people who use the Bible like a Chinese resturant menu when deciding what to believe (multiple choice dogma). I have said here before, I don't believe in any one religion but I do consider myself a Christian and try to live my life as such. I don't wear a WWJD sign on my back but I do try to keep it in my soul.

[Captain Obvious]

I did not mean for anyone to think that all southern Christians behave like the kooks in the OP. They don't. However, we do have a good sized population of people who use the Bible like a Chinese resturant menu when deciding what to believe (multiple choice dogma). I have said here before, I don't believe in any one religion but I do consider myself a Christian and try to live my life as such. I don't wear a WWJD sign on my back but I do try to keep it in my soul.

No, and nobody is implying that all Christians are kooks. I'd say most of them aren't.

Just like when the mainstream Muslim looks the other way when radical Islam makes the news, just like the mainstream black community looks the other way on issues like black crime, drug use, low educational scores, etc. the mainstream Christian community does not do a good job when they're "brethren" are out there being assholes.

It suddenly turns into a crusade against Christianity. "Oh no, it's teh war on Christmas", blah blah...

Religion is a funny thing, it makes some people crazy. We need to be really careful in this country that the religious right whackjobs don't get out of hand.

[Peter1469]

I don't see any religious people "getting out of hand" in American....

[Libhater]

Religion is a funny thing, it makes some people crazy. We need to be really careful in this country that the religious right whackjobs don't get out of hand.


LOL! Yeah, we really have to be careful of those right wing religious whackjobs from arriving at the Texas border to give aid to the thousands of displaced illegal children while no leftist faction was anywhere near there, and to those other right wing Christian whackos who refuse to abide by PC law by saying Merry Christmas instead of using the secularists version of saying using 'Happy Holidays'.

[Alyosha]

I hate this kind of comments. I was going to ignore the conversation.

But what the hell are you talking about authoritarianism is coming from the left?

Progressive taxation comes from the left. Soda laws, milk laws, food laws in general, helmet laws, swimming pool regulations, driving regulations--heck our drug laws, most of them have come from the left...

[PolWatch]

I don't see any religious people "getting out of hand" in American....

We don't have too many racing around with machetes but we do a lot of 'em who think that anyone who doesn't agree with them have no right to their opinion. I see it a lot in this area. We see people protesting the 'war on Christmas', defending their right to worship in the aisles of our Lady of Wal-Mart, while objecting to the request to display a Menorah at a community holiday event. No one is using violence...yet.

[Captain Obvious]

I don't see any religious people "getting out of hand" in American....

These TV "evangelist" assholes taking old lady's social security checks every week isn't out of hand? These Christian science people who let their kids die because they think prayer works better than medical attention isn't out of hand? How many cases of priest rape and molestation have suddenly turned up, all the while the Catholic Church was busy trying to keep everything hush.

Don't look the other way, brother Christian. It's there. Again, maybe nobody's sawing anyone's heads off, we do an ok job in this country keeping the religious kookery at a minimum but again, my point is - if we didn't, heads would be sawed. If we let the radical religious right have their way this would be a theocracy and any non-Christian would be persecuted.

[Mister D]

We don't have too many racing around with machetes but we do a lot of 'em who think that anyone who doesn't agree with them have no right to their opinion. I see it a lot in this area. We see people protesting the 'war on Christmas', defending their right to worship in the aisles of our Lady of Wal-Mart, while objecting to the request to display a Menorah at a community holiday event. No one is using violence...yet.

Right now you just post on a message forum. You haven't used any violence...yet.

[Peter1469]

I don't think we will see heads being sawed off in American by religious kooks....


These TV "evangelist" assholes taking old lady's social security checks every week isn't out of hand? These Christian science people who let their kids die because they think prayer works better than medical attention isn't out of hand? How many cases of priest rape and molestation have suddenly turned up, all the while the Catholic Church was busy trying to keep everything hush.

Don't look the other way, brother Christian. It's there. Again, maybe nobody's sawing anyone's heads off, we do an ok job in this country keeping the religious kookery at a minimum but again, my point is - if we didn't, heads would be sawed. If we let the radical religious right have their way this would be a theocracy and any non-Christian would be persecuted.

[Captain Obvious]

I don't think we will see heads being sawed off in American by religious kooks....

Neither do I, my point is - if our intolerance for religious kookery weren't as strong as it was, if the radical religious right went unchecked and unchallenged they would approach radical Islam.

[Captain Obvious]

Purely hypothetical opinion mind you.

But I'm rarely wrong, keep that in mind too.

;)

[Peter1469]

Neither do I, my point is - if our intolerance for religious kookery weren't as strong as it was, if the radical religious right went unchecked and unchallenged they would approach radical Islam. And I disagree. Modern American Christianity, even the really odd types, are fundamentally different from militant Islam.

They aren't going on the war path to convert or kill anyone.

[Common Sense]

Take away economic stability, stable government and a relatively cordial society and fundamentalists of any color will act differently.

All three major religions have the ability to turn ugly...quick.

[PolWatch]

Right now you just post on a message forum. You haven't used any violence...yet.

nope, and no plans for the future. I'm just an observer of things in my area...swastika's painted on a synagogue (several years ago), protests over enlarging a local mosque (very recent), objections to a Buddhist temple in the city limits (fairly recently). Oddly enough, no one has been protesting anything any of the Christian organizations have started....go figure.

[Mister D]

Purely hypothetical opinion mind you.

But I'm rarely wrong, keep that in mind too.

;)

It's also the sort of speculation you could make about virtually anyone.

[Libhater]

These TV "evangelist" assholes taking old lady's social security checks every week isn't out of hand?

You are one strange dude. Welcome to the evangelist's version of good old capitalism. No one has a gun to these old lady's heads when they willingly give $$ to whatever cause they believe in.





These Christian science people who let their kids die because they think prayer works better than medical attention isn't out of hand?

I am no big fan of the screwy beliefs of the Christian Scientists, but why should their particular beliefs of shunning medical help make them out to be a danger to society as a whole, or be of a concern to you the righteous one?


How many cases of priest rape and molestation have suddenly turned up, all the while the Catholic Church was busy trying to keep everything hush.

Rape and molestation are human foibles regardless of who is involved...religious or not. I don't see the Catholic church as covering it up.


Don't look the other way, brother Christian. It's there. Again, maybe nobody's sawing anyone's heads off, we do an ok job in this country keeping the religious kookery at a minimum but again, my point is - if we didn't, heads would be sawed. If we let the radical religious right have their way this would be a theocracy and any non-Christian would be persecuted.

The religious right doesn't have their sights set on making America a theocracy. Our founders made sure that religion wouldn't be mixed in with our government. So stop with all your leftist talking points already.

[Mister D]

nope, and no plans for the future. I'm just an observer of things in my area...swastika's painted on a synagogue (several years ago), protests over enlarging a local mosque (very recent), objections to a Buddhist temple in the city limits (fairly recently). Oddly enough, no one has been protesting anything any of the Christian organizations have started....go figure.

FYI, neo-Nazis aren't particularly fond of Christianity and protests over a local mosque or Buddhist temple have exactly what to do with violence? Nothing?

You're just offering your "observations"...for now.

[Mister D]

Take away economic stability, stable government and a relatively cordial society and fundamentalists of any color will act differently.

All three major religions have the ability to turn ugly...quick.

You mean just like any political ideology?

[Common Sense]

You mean just like any political ideology?

Any fundamentalist one...yes.

[Mister D]

Any fundamentalist one...yes.

There are fundamentalists but none of the major religions are fundamentalist. In fact, political ideologies especially modern ideologies (perhaps that's redundant) have much more potential to become "fundamentalist" as 20th Century history clearly demonstrates.

[Mister D]

So there we have it. Let's get rid of religion and politics. Let's just get rid of people. The world will be a much better place. lol

[Captain Obvious]

So there we have it. Let's get rid of religion and politics. Let's just get rid of people. The world will be a much better place. lol

Now you're starting to get it.

:biglaugh:

[kilgram]

^^^ This from a guy sporting a propaganda poster from a regime that brutally tortured and murdered thousands of Catholic clergy and many more lay people.
What are you talking about?

I am using anarchist posters of the civil war. People who fought against the Fascists of Franco.

And about the Spanish Civil War those posters talk about freedom and liberty.

[kilgram]

Progressive taxation comes from the left. Soda laws, milk laws, food laws in general, helmet laws, swimming pool regulations, driving regulations--heck our drug laws, most of them have come from the left...
And from the right none? Really?

And progressive taxation is about social justice. That is not authoritarism. That is pure justice.

Pure justice against your tyranic system called: Libertarianism.

[Peter1469]

And from the right none? Really?

And progressive taxation is about social justice. That is not authoritarism. That is pure justice.

Pure justice against your tyranic system called: Libertarianism.


Not when the power of the state is used to force it.

:smiley:

[Captain Obvious]

So there we have it. Let's get rid of religion and politics. Let's just get rid of people. The world will be a much better place. lol

You know this is an interesting point, religion is a lot like politics.

On paper they all look great. In practice, someone is using it for personal gain and as a tool of oppression to control the masses.

[kilgram]

Not when the power of the state is used to force it.

:smiley:
Justice never is authoritarian. Is what is deserved.

And the big corporations and other thieves deserve to pay more than the others.

[countryboy]

And from the right none? Really?

And progressive taxation is about social justice. That is not authoritarism. That is pure justice.

Pure justice against your tyranic system called: Libertarianism.
All you are saying is, "my authoritarianism is better than your authoritarianism". This is satire, right?

[Mister D]

What are you talking about?

I am using anarchist posters of the civil war. People who fought against the Fascists of Franco.

And about the Spanish Civil War those posters talk about freedom and liberty.

Yes, they talk about freedom and liberty. They practiced murder and mayhem.

[Mister D]

You know this is an interesting point, religion is a lot like politics.

On paper they all look great. In practice, someone is using it for personal gain and as a tool of oppression to control the masses.

Religion and politics are inherent to our social life which means that, as social creatures, they are inherent to our existence. All this talk about getting rid of religion is inane. That's why I bring up politics in an effort to demonstrate just goofy some criticisms of religion are. You can't get rid of either one.

Yes, sometimes these things are sometimes abused but that's true of virtually everything.

[Captain Obvious]

Religion and politics are inherent to our social life which means that, as social creatures, they are inherent to our existence. All this talk about getting rid of religion is inane. That's why I bring up politics in an effort to demonstrate just goofy some criticisms of religion are. You can't get rid of either one.

Yes, sometimes these things are sometimes abused but that's true of virtually everything.

Who said anything about getting rid of religion?

Seriously.

Nobody's warring on your X-mas, relax.

[Mister D]

Who said anything about getting rid of religion?

Seriously.

Nobody's warring on your X-mas, relax.

Uh, you must not be familiar with Dawkins, Hitchens et al. Don't worry. You aren't missing anything.

[Captain Obvious]

Uh, you must not be familiar with Dawkins, Hitchens et al. Don't worry. You aren't missing anything.

Hey, you're right.

Where were they mentioned in this thread?

[del]

religion is for people who are afraid of going to hell

[Mister D]

religion is for people who are afraid of going to hell

Which is why religion is much older than any concept of hell or damnation. lol Yeah, that makes sense.

[Mister D]

Hey, you're right.

Where were they mentioned in this thread?

Yeah, that ususally happens.

Do they need to be mentioned for me to comment on their ideas? You obviously share them.

[Alyosha]

Anyone who thinks that Pat Robertson is even close to AQ or ISIS needs to put the bottle down.

[del]

Which is why religion is much older than any concept of hell or damnation. lol Yeah, that makes sense.

ok, religion is for people who are afraid, period.

[Mister D]

ok, religion is for people who are afraid, period.

Of what, del?

[Mister D]

Anyone who thinks that Pat Robertson is even close to AQ or ISIS needs to put the bottle down.

Del, Captain...put the bottle down.

[Captain Obvious]

Yeah, that ususally happens.

Do they need to be mentioned for me to comment on their ideas? You obviously share them.

Why so angry?

[del]

Of what, del?

themselves, mostly

like you

[Captain Obvious]

Anyone who thinks that Pat Robertson is even close to AQ or ISIS needs to put the bottle down.

Maybe not Pat Robertson, but Pat Robertson is a tangent of mainstream Christianity no doubt.

You don't think Robertson is a complete kook? I mean seriously, the guy claims to have a batphone to God.

Oh, I'd be happy to dig up some Robertson kookery, just give me the thumbs up and this thread will become fucking AWESOME!

:biglaugh:

[Mister D]

Why so angry?

I'm furious! lol

[Peter1469]

Justice never is authoritarian. Is what is deserved.

And the big corporations and other thieves deserve to pay more than the others.

Tens of millions of people were killed by their own governments in the 20th Century precisely because of this attitude.

No thanks.

[Mister D]

themselves, mostly

like you

What? lol

[Mister D]

Tens of millions of people were killed by their own governments in the 20th Century precisely because of this attitude.

No thanks.

Watch out for those Christians, Peter.

[kilgram]

Which is why religion is much older than any concept of hell or damnation. lol Yeah, that makes sense.
The ignorance has been the rule of humanity and in that ignorance humans created the religions to explain the nature.

[Peter1469]

The ignorance has been the rule of humanity and in that ignorance humans created the religions to explain the nature.

Translation, the State will think for you. If you don't like it, you shall be purged.

[Mister D]

Translation, the State will think for you. If you don't like it, you shall be purged.

It's all for your own good, Peter.

[PolWatch]

Violence by Christians against other religions or different versions of Christianity in this country is not common. Because violence goes against everything Christianity stands for? nope. There has been lots of violence by Christians against other religions and different versions of Christianity in the past. Is it not practiced now because we have a better quality of Christians or is it not practiced now because more people are watching? IMHO: depends on who is offering the opinion. Where would we be without organizations like the ACLU? They defend the right of Americans to practice their religion (or not) as they wish. I suspect they (& others) are what keep the kooks down. (now, let the screaming begin)

[Mister D]

Violence by Christians against other religions or different versions of Christianity in this country is not common. Because violence goes against everything Christianity stands for? nope. There has been lots of violence by Christians against other religions and different versions of Christianity in the past. Is it not practiced now because we have a better quality of Christians or is it not practiced now because more people are watching? IMHO: depends on who is offering the opinion. Where would we be without organizations like the ACLU? They defend the right of Americans to practice their religion (or not) as they wish. I suspect they (& others) are what keep the kooks down. (now, let the screaming begin)

The ACLU was founded in 1920. Prior to that, America was awash in religious violence...oh wait. No screaming. Just letting you know how silly that was. :kiss:

[Captain Obvious]

Violence by Christians against other religions or different versions of Christianity in this country is not common. Because violence goes against everything Christianity stands for? nope. There has been lots of violence by Christians against other religions and different versions of Christianity in the past. Is it not practiced now because we have a better quality of Christians or is it not practiced now because more people are watching? IMHO: depends on who is offering the opinion. Where would we be without organizations like the ACLU? They defend the right of Americans to practice their religion (or not) as they wish. I suspect they (& others) are what keep the kooks down. (now, let the screaming begin)

I just think there are enough people in society who aren't afraid to point out where religious extremism gets out of hand.

Used to not be that way at one time.

[Mister D]

I just think there are enough people in society who aren't afraid to point out where religious extremism gets out of hand.

Used to not be that way at one time.

When was that, Captain?

[Alyosha]

I just think there are enough people in society who aren't afraid to point out where religious extremism gets out of hand.

Used to not be that way at one time.

I think you need to leave the country and go to a Muslim nation. I don't say this snotty-like, just sort of matter-of-fact. When I moved to the US it was very religious. Now, its sacrilegious almost. The fundamentalists are not powerful. If they were Obama would not have won, gay marriage would not be all over the country.

I think this is just making a mountain out of a molehill.

Extremism is in Egypt or Yemen, not the US.

[Captain Obvious]

I think you need to leave the country and go to a Muslim nation. I don't say this snotty-like, just sort of matter-of-fact. When I moved to the US it was very religious. Now, its sacrilegious almost. The fundamentalists are not powerful. If they were Obama would not have won, gay marriage would not be all over the country.

I think this is just making a mountain out of a molehill.

Extremism is in Egypt or Yemen, not the US.

What are you not getting, we might be saying the same thing here.

Yes, we don't see radical, violent religious kookery here like we see in Pakistan for example.

There is a reason - our society doesn't tolerate it, Pakistan's does.

Click?

[Captain Obvious]

When was that, Captain?

Century ago and earlier, D-wang.

Hell, we were the refugee haven for religious kookery, they all moved out west to Idaho, Utah and the like.

[Mister D]

Century ago and earlier, D-wang.

Hell, we were the refugee haven for religious kookery, they all moved out west to Idaho, Utah and the like.

What happened "a century ago and earlier"?

[Peter1469]

The traditions of Christianity have evolved to where they could not create what you see in the Middle East today.

[Captain Obvious]

What happened "a century ago and earlier"?

Probably rained a lot more.

[Mister D]

The traditions of Christianity have evolved to where they could not create what you see in the Middle East today.

They never could have which is why they never did.

[Mister D]

Probably rained a lot more.

Yeah, that argument of yours seems all wet. :wink:

[Alyosha]

What are you not getting, we might be saying the same thing here.

Yes, we don't see radical, violent religious kookery here like we see in Pakistan for example.

There is a reason - our society doesn't tolerate it, Pakistan's does.

Click?


It's that plus the religion. Tibet is a highly religious nation but they're not stoning people. The Quakers never stoned people, nor the Amish.

[Captain Obvious]

The traditions of Christianity have evolved to where they could not create what you see in the Middle East today.

I don't disagree.

I've said this before, fundamental Islam and Medieval Christianity are in different time zones but are basically very similar.

[Mister D]

I don't disagree.

I've said this before, fundamental Islam and Medieval Christianity are in different time zones but are basically very similar.

In what ways?

[Alyosha]

I find Christian fundamentalists to be annoying but Bill Maher said it correctly when he said, Their fundamentalists fly planes into buildings, ours call the purple Teletubby gay.

[Captain Obvious]

It's that plus the religion. Tibet is a highly religious nation but they're not stoning people. The Quakers never stoned people, nor the Amish.

I don't disagree with the latter statement.

Quakers and Amish are kooks in a much different way, they're not organized for one thing. Instances of rape and incest are common in the Amish community. I don't know any Quakers, are there still any around?

So what your saying is that the big 3 - Islam, Christianity and Judaism are all traditionally based in violence?

Fascinating...

[Captain Obvious]

In what ways?

Warring, forced conversions, totalitarianism

[Captain Obvious]

I find Christian fundamentalists to be annoying but Bill Maher said it correctly when he said, Their fundamentalists fly planes into buildings, ours call the purple Teletubby gay.

And it's because there is enough social pressures on religious kookery to keep it harnessed in our society.

In many Arab societies there is not enough social pressure to keep their religious kooks from blowing shit up and sawing a few heads off.

[Alyosha]

I don't disagree with the latter statement.

Quakers and Amish are kooks in a much different way, they're not organized for one thing. Instances of rape and incest are common in the Amish community. I don't know any Quakers, are there still any around?

So what your saying is that the big 3 - Islam, Christianity and Judaism are all traditionally based in violence?

Fascinating...

No, I don't. I studied Islam in undergrad. I studied Judaism in high school and undergrad, and I've been a Catholic since birth and studied theology from Jesuits. So my opinion, based on research, is that Islam and Judaism are law-based orthodoxy and Christianity is anarchistic and oral tradition based. Christianity from its birth had roots in nonviolence. This is exemplified by Roman writings about them, and their reticence for war.

There have been times post-church/state collusion of violence, but in general it is passive.

[Mister D]

Warring, forced conversions, totalitarianism

So we could say that radical Islam is just like the US government then, right?
:grin:

[Mister D]

No, I don't. I studied Islam in undergrad. I studied Judaism in high school and undergrad, and I've been a Catholic since birth and studied theology from Jesuits. So my opinion, based on research, is that Islam and Judaism are law-based orthodoxy and Christianity is anarchistic and oral tradition based. Christianity from its birth had roots in nonviolence. This is exemplified by Roman writings about them, and their reticence for war.

There have been times post-church/state collusion of violence, but in general it is passive.

Aly, this is the flip side of the shallow ecumenicalism one so frequently encounters. Religions either teach the same positive things or they teach the same hateful things. Either way it's the product of a lazy mind. The truth is that these religions are not the same which is why they produced different cultures and different kinds of men.

[Peter1469]

They never could have which is why they never did.

Well don't tell that to the Cathars.

[Mister D]

Well don't tell that to the Cathars.

I would tell them not to murder papal envoys and missionaries.

[Captain Obvious]

Easy guys, no reason to get violent.

:biglaugh:

[Mister D]

Easy guys, no reason to get violent.

:biglaugh:

I'll saw your fucking head off!

[Peter1469]

I would tell them not to murder papal envoys and missionaries.

Did they?

Lunch where about 250 Cathars walked into the fire rather than convert to Catholicism.

[Mister D]

Yes, they did. In fact, that's when the violence began. The fact that the church relied solely on preaching and argument for decades to quell Catharism is by itself enough to demonstrate that it was quite unlike radical Islam.

[Mister D]

Nice pic though. Sandwich looks good too

[Captain Obvious]

Did they?

Lunch where about 250 Cathars walked into the fire rather than convert to Catholicism.

Is that someone fucking in the bushes behind you?

[Peter1469]

I think it is a rock.

[Captain Obvious]

I think it is a rock.

uh huh...

[Peter1469]

uh huh...

Anyway, the point is the ~250 people who willingly walked into the fire.

[Paperback Writer]

I've seen worse comments from Arsenal supporters on the Mighty Man U Facebook page. Is this really news in the States?

[Green Arrow]

I've seen worse comments from Arsenal supporters on the Mighty Man U Facebook page. Is this really news in the States?

Apparently.

[PolWatch]

yeap, never happened in America...

Although they were victims of religious persecution in Europe, the Puritans supported the Old World theory that sanctioned it, the need for uniformity of religion in the state. Once in control in New England, they sought to break "the very neck of Schism and vile opinions." The "business" of the first settlers, a Puritan minister recalled in 1681, "was not Toleration, but [they] were professed enemies of it." Puritans expelled dissenters from their colonies, a fate that in 1636 befell Roger Williams and in 1638 Anne Hutchinson, America's first major female religious leader. Those who defied the Puritans by persistently returning to their jurisdictions risked capital punishment, a penalty imposed on four Quakers between 1659 and 1661. Reflecting on the seventeenth century's intolerance, Thomas Jefferson was unwilling to concede to Virginians any moral superiority to the Puritans. Beginning in 1659 Virginia enacted anti-Quaker laws, including the death penalty for refractory Quakers. Jefferson surmised that "if no capital execution took place here, as did in New England, it was not owing to the moderation of the church, or the spirit of the legislature."

[Captain Obvious]

yeap, never happened in America...

Although they were victims of religious persecution in Europe, the Puritans supported the Old World theory that sanctioned it, the need for uniformity of religion in the state. Once in control in New England, they sought to break "the very neck of Schism and vile opinions." The "business" of the first settlers, a Puritan minister recalled in 1681, "was not Toleration, but [they] were professed enemies of it." Puritans expelled dissenters from their colonies, a fate that in 1636 befell Roger Williams and in 1638 Anne Hutchinson, America's first major female religious leader. Those who defied the Puritans by persistently returning to their jurisdictions risked capital punishment, a penalty imposed on four Quakers between 1659 and 1661. Reflecting on the seventeenth century's intolerance, Thomas Jefferson was unwilling to concede to Virginians any moral superiority to the Puritans. Beginning in 1659 Virginia enacted anti-Quaker laws, including the death penalty for refractory Quakers. Jefferson surmised that "if no capital execution took place here, as did in New England, it was not owing to the moderation of the church, or the spirit of the legislature."

Heads were sawed, lol!

Hear that Mister D ?

:biglaugh:

[Common Sense]

Someone mentioned Tibet and Buddhists...there seems to be a Disneyfication of Tibet and Buddhism. It wasn't always peace and harmony. Before China took over Tibet it was a feudal system. Not one shy of violence. Picture medieval Europe. Feuds, wars, murders, oppression.

No religion has a clean record because every religion is a creation of man and has been used to control other humans. Most are benign, but they all have the capacity for trouble.

[PolWatch]

<jumping into fire again> from personal experience (laugh if you want): I live in a community with more charismatic, fundamentalist churches than conventional. I have heard many sermons on the subject of the ungodly...including Catholics, LDS, Jews, blacks & Asians and anyone else who does not attend their church. Do we have a problem with them killing others? nope. Do I think they are as rabid as the kooks in the Middle East? nope. I don't expect them to try violence because I suspect they know it would not be tolerated...not because of any religious aversion to wiping out the competition. Just because our country believes in and enforces (now) freedom of religion for all, doesn't mean the seeds of theocracy are not there. What some people frame as a war on Christianity is (imho) a war on those who wish to eliminate any worship except as THEY see fit.

[Captain Obvious]

<jumping into fire again> from personal experience (laugh if you want): I live in a community with more charismatic, fundamentalist churches than conventional. I have heard many sermons on the subject of the ungodly...including Catholics, LDS, Jews, blacks & Asians and anyone else who does not attend their church. Do we have a problem with them killing others? nope. Do I think they are as rabid as the kooks in the Middle East? nope. I don't expect them to try violence because I suspect they know it would not be tolerated...not because of any religious aversion to wiping out the competition. Just because our country believes in and enforces (now) freedom of religion for all, doesn't mean the seeds of theocracy are not there. What some people frame as a war on Christianity is (imho) a war on those who wish to eliminate any worship except as THEY see fit.

You could extend that argument also, as I pointed out earlier, to political preferences.

The fringe, far Right wants to eliminate liberalism and wants only conservative principles adhered to.

I'm a liberal whack job to many here but in truth I'm fairly staunchly conservative. Social moderate, maybe even a social liberal. I guess if it weren't for my rabid opposition to abortion I'd be considered a social liberal.

I have no problem with social and fiscal liberalism, I think the whole mix and the current environment lends itself to strengths and weaknesses from both approaches. To use only one kind of spice in your soup may ruin it.

[darroll]

ok, religion is for people who are afraid, period.
I'm not afraid of anything. I'm also not worried about going to hell, they can only fry you so long. If I was not religious I would hope I learned right from wrong.

[darroll]

Violence by Christians against other religions or different versions of Christianity in this country is not common. Because violence goes against everything Christianity stands for? nope. There has been lots of violence by Christians against other religions and different versions of Christianity in the past. Is it not practiced now because we have a better quality of Christians or is it not practiced now because more people are watching? IMHO: depends on who is offering the opinion. Where would we be without organizations like the ACLU? They defend the right of Americans to practice their religion (or not) as they wish. I suspect they (& others) are what keep the kooks down. (now, let the screaming begin)

The ACLU, I just about puked.

[Mister D]

yeap, never happened in America...

Although they were victims of religious persecution in Europe, the Puritans supported the Old World theory that sanctioned it, the need for uniformity of religion in the state. Once in control in New England, they sought to break "the very neck of Schism and vile opinions." The "business" of the first settlers, a Puritan minister recalled in 1681, "was not Toleration, but [they] were professed enemies of it." Puritans expelled dissenters from their colonies, a fate that in 1636 befell Roger Williams and in 1638 Anne Hutchinson, America's first major female religious leader. Those who defied the Puritans by persistently returning to their jurisdictions risked capital punishment, a penalty imposed on four Quakers between 1659 and 1661. Reflecting on the seventeenth century's intolerance, Thomas Jefferson was unwilling to concede to Virginians any moral superiority to the Puritans. Beginning in 1659 Virginia enacted anti-Quaker laws, including the death penalty for refractory Quakers. Jefferson surmised that "if no capital execution took place here, as did in New England, it was not owing to the moderation of the church, or the spirit of the legislature."

Sally Sue, read your own citation. I'll help. I know you're up there in years.


Those who defied the Puritans by persistently returning to their jurisdictions risked capital punishment

Puritans: get the fuck out. we don't want you here in our community anymore.

Probably an ancestor of @Captain Obvious (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=3) : fuck off. I'll do what I want, motherfuckers. You're all religious kooks.

Repeat several times. I'll spare you the final scene.

You seem to believe the Puritan community was not sovereign. It was and should have been. Don't like it? Leave. In any case, that's not the US. So, no, "it" never happened here.

[Captain Obvious]

Sally Sue, read your own citation. I'll help. I know you're up there in years.



Puritans: get the fuck out. we don't want you here in our community anymore.

Probably an ancestor of @Captain Obvious (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=3) : fuck off. I'll do what I want, motherfuckers. You're all religious kooks.

Repeat several times. I'll spare you the final scene.

You seem to believe the Puritan community was not sovereign. It was and should have been. Don't like it? Leave. In any case, that's not the US. So, no, "it" never happened here.

They weren't religiously motivated?

[Mister D]

They weren't religiously motivated?

What difference does it make?

[Gerrard Winstanley]

If you don't believe in Hell why would you be offended that someone told you to go there? This sounds attention-seeking to me. I don't believe in Valhalla (although it sounds cool) so if someone told me they hoped I was killed over and over again there I'd be all, "That's nice, thanks."
If a guy tells me my mother's a whore, it doesn't matter whether it's bullshit. I'm still going to punch him in the face.

[Captain Obvious]

What difference does it make?

None whatsoever I guess.

:biglaugh:

[Mister D]

None whatsoever I guess.

:biglaugh:

If you can't articulate one you're probably right.

[Mister D]

If a guy tells me my mother's a whore, it doesn't matter whether it's bullshit. I'm still going to punch him in the face.

I'd imagine your mother is a first class lady, Gerrard. :smiley:

[Captain Obvious]

If you can't articulate one you're probably right.

Well you just made a ridiculous statement.

You're trying to paint the picture that these people were anti-organized-religion nuts like me, of course if they were religiously motivated it's relevant.

[PolWatch]

'Sally Sue, read your own citation. I'll help. I know you're up there in years.' just a tad bit testy are we?

yeap...not here...not America...just north America...'get thee gone to the ocean you non-Christians..oopss..non-Puritan Christians'!! Out! Dammed spot!...rinse & repeat....you'll never know it happened.

[Mister D]

Well you just made a ridiculous statement.

You're trying to paint the picture that these people were anti-organized-religion nuts like me, of course if they were religiously motivated it's relevant.

It doesn't matter what they were. As per the citation, they kept violating the will of the Puritan community that had expelled them. Hardly sympathetic characters. If such deaths actually happened (who? where?), it was not the result of persecution but rather the intransigence of the persons expelled. On the contrary, they were probably zealots intent on spreading doctrines the Puritan did not want spread in their communities.

[Captain Obvious]

It doesn't matter what they were. As per the citation, they kept violating the will of the Puritan community that had expelled them. Hardly sympathetic characters. If such deaths actually happened (who? where?), it was not the result of persecution but rather the intransigence of the persons expelled. On the contrary, they were probably zealots intent on spreading doctrines the Puritan did not want spread in their communities.

Kinda like someone wanting to put up a portrait of Muhammad in the courthouse instead of the ten commandments?

[Mister D]

'Sally Sue, read your own citation. I'll help. I know you're up there in years.' just a tad bit testy are we?

yeap...not here...not America...just north America...'get thee gone to the ocean you non-Christians..oopss..non-Puritan Christians'!! Out! Dammed spot!...rinse & repeat....you'll never know it happened.


Good Lord...

Sally Sue, the United States and "America" as a mere geographical term are two different things. Was that covered in school?

Testy? not really. I'm just giving you what you obviously want.

[Mister D]

Kinda like someone wanting to put up a portrait of Muhammad in the courthouse instead of the ten commandments?

Couldn't give a damn, personally.

[Gerrard Winstanley]

I'd imagine your mother is a first class lady, Gerrard. :smiley:
You better believe it. Or I'll nut you.

[Captain Obvious]

Couldn't give a damn, personally.

Then I see why you're struggling with the concept.

[Captain Obvious]

You better believe it. Or I'll nut you.

Might want to choose a different cliche.

:biglaugh:

[Mister D]

Then I see why you're struggling with the concept.

This is a tired canard of the secular kooks. I'll repeat: I do not care if predominately Muslim communities have Islamic symbols in public displays. Why do you?

[Captain Obvious]

This is a tired canard of the secular kooks. I'll repeat: I do not care if predominately Muslim communities have Islamic symbols in public displays. Why do you?

I could care less if a picture of Ted Nugent hangs on the walls of my local courthouse, the issue is religious intolerance toward one another, including Christian sects.

[Mister D]

I could care less if a picture of Ted Nugent hangs on the walls of my local courthouse, the issue is religious intolerance toward one another, including Christian sects.

no, the issue is a similarity to radical Islam which is pure, unadulterated nonsense.

[PolWatch]

let me try to make it clearer for you...Christians (& other religions) have been guilty of religious violence all over the world (ambiguous enough for you?) since the word religion was first used. Christians are not currently running berserk in the United States and I don't expect it to happen anytime soon. There are crazies in every religion...even Christianity. A society that allows one religion to persecute another is not a good place to be. To protect the rights of Christians, this country protects the rights of all religions...even those in the minority.

[Captain Obvious]

no, the issue is a similarity to radical Islam which is pure, unadulterated nonsense.

And what pointed out is that radical Christianity is no different.

[Mister D]

let me try to make it clearer for you...Christians (& other religions) have been guilty of religious violence all over the world (ambiguous enough for you?) since the word religion was first used. Christians are not currently running berserk in the United States and I don't expect it to happen anytime soon. There are crazies in every religion...even Christianity. A society that allows one religion to persecute another is not a good place to be. To protect the rights of Christians, this country protects the rights of all religions...even those in the minority.

You're as clear as mud, Sally. That might be because you can't stay on topic. Christians have never run berserk in the US. EVER. There is no meaningful similarity between Christianity, particularly as practiced in the US, and radical Islam.

[Mister D]

And what pointed out is that radical Christianity is no different.

never heard the term before. Could you describe their doctrine for me and how it threatens you?

[Gerrard Winstanley]

And what pointed out is that radical Christianity is no different.
Historical radical Christianity, sure.

[Gerrard Winstanley]

never heard the term before. Could you describe their doctrine for me and how it threatens you?
By that logic, radical Islam doesn't exist.

[Captain Obvious]

You're as clear as mud, Sally. That might be because you can't stay on topic. Christians have never run berserk in the US. EVER. There is no meaningful similarity between Christianity, particularly as practiced in the US, and radical Islam.

Bingo - that's my point.

You're getting it now, slowly but surely. We don't tolerate religious kookery. Maybe a bit early on as I pointed out earlier as did Sally... er, PolWatch, go back and retrace this discussion. You'll see all of this and maybe it will click.

In Medieval times there was high tolerance for religious violence.

Click?

[Captain Obvious]

Historical radical Christianity, sure.

Right, agreed - that's kinda my point.

We see remnants of it now but our society is such that we likely won't see it's full glory.

[PolWatch]

http://www.directsmiley.com/cat/10/10_1_138.gif

[Mister D]

Bingo - that's my point.

You're getting it now, slowly but surely. We don't tolerate religious kookery. Maybe a bit early on as I pointed out earlier as did Sally... er, PolWatch, go back and retrace this discussion. You'll see all of this and maybe it will click.

In Medieval times there was high tolerance for religious violence.

Click?

Sigh...

no, the "religious kookery" simply has never been a significant force. That's not because it's not tolerated. It's because it's not widely practiced. never has been. IOW, it's not part of the culture.

In your own time, we tolerate a great deal of violence much of it official. Mistakenly vaporize some goat herders and their children? Oops. Yeah, we have so much on those Medieval savages.

[Mister D]

Right, agreed - that's kinda my point.

We see remnants of it now but our society is such that we likely won't see it's full glory.

Yeah, it's all over the place. Can't miss it!

[Captain Obvious]

Yeah, it's all over the place. Can't miss it!

You can't.

Much like how Cigar looks the other way on issues of minority dysfunction I think you're blinders are on a bit when it comes to religious kookery in this country.

[Mister D]

By that logic, radical Islam doesn't exist.

I'll ask you then. Could you describe their doctrine for me, who exactly they are, and how it/they threaten you? With radical Islam it's easy. They believe you're an infidel and if you do not submit to them they have license to kill you. Your turn.

[Mister D]

You can't.

Much like how Cigar looks the other way on issues of minority dysfunction I think you're blinders are on a bit when it comes to religious kookery in this country.

Could you describe their doctrine for me, who exactly they are, and how it/they threaten you? Also, how is it just like radical Islam? I'll wait.

[Captain Obvious]

Could you describe their doctrine for me, who exactly they are, and how it/they threaten you? Also, how is it just like radical Islam? I'll wait.

They don't - physically if that's what you're asking.

Are you paying attention?

[Mister D]

They don't - physically if that's what you're asking.

Are you paying attention?

So we may dismiss this claim that it's like radical Islam. We've (or I should say you) have stumbled onto to a major difference. One set will kill you. They other will give you a nasty look. lol

Share that with del.

[Captain Obvious]

So we may dismiss this claim that it's like radical Islam. We've (or I should say you) have stumbled onto to a major difference. One set will kill you. They other will give you a nasty look. lol

Share that with del.

mmmm, nah but let's just go with it.

[PolWatch]

I'm sure you have heard of the snake handlers of Appalachia...they take the verse in Mark about taking up serpents literally. If you were to tell them that they were wrong, they would have little hesitation in tossing a rattler or 2 at you...when you died, it proved to them that you were sinful & wrong. They are kook Christians. imho they don't have much difference from someone who wants to use suicide bombs to kill the infidels. There are not too many of them but they are just as violent...to themselves & to others in the name of their version of religion.

[Gerrard Winstanley]

I'll ask you then. Could you describe their doctrine for me, who exactly they are, and how it/they threaten you? With radical Islam it's easy. They believe you're infidel ad if you do not submit to them they have license to kill you. Your turn.
There isn't just one radical Islamic doctrine. Some aren't even into killing people. All the term denotes is a particularly militant, political strain of Islam. 'Radical Christianity' serves the same purpose.

[Mister D]

There isn't just one radical Islamic doctrine. Some aren't even into killing people. All the term denotes is a particularly militant, political strain of Islam. 'Radical Christianity' serves the same purpose.

Could you describe their doctrine for me, who exactly they are, and how it/they threaten you? With radical Islam it's easy. They believe you're infidel and if you do not submit to them they have license to kill you. Your turn.

[Mister D]

I'm sure you have heard of the snake handlers of Appalachia...they take the verse in Mark about taking up serpents literally. If you were to tell them that they were wrong, they would have little hesitation in tossing a rattler or 2 at you...when you died, it proved to them that you were sinful & wrong. They are kook Christians. imho they don't have much difference from someone who wants to use suicide bombs to kill the infidels. There are not too many of them but they are just as violent...to themselves & to others in the name of their version of religion.

Tell us, has this ever happened? Seriously, I mean literally "ever". As in one time.

[Mister D]

mmmm, nah but let's just go with it.

Agreed. Del is a lost cause.

[Gerrard Winstanley]

Could you describe their doctrine for me, who exactly they are, and how it/they threaten you? With radical Islam it's easy. They believe you're infidel and if you do not submit to them they have license to kill you. Your turn.
There isn't just one radical Islamic doctrine. Some aren't even into killing people. All the term denotes is a particularly militant, political strain of Islam. 'Radical Christianity' serves the same purpose.

[Peter1469]

Tell us, has this ever happened? Seriously, I mean literally "ever". As in one time. It also doesn't really matter. The numbers of snake handlers is not relevant when compared to the Islaimists.

[Mister D]

There isn't just one radical Islamic doctrine. Some aren't even into killing people. All the term denotes is a particularly militant, political strain of Islam. 'Radical Christianity' serves the same purpose.

I'm not asking about radical Islam. Regarding "radical Christians", could you describe their doctrine for me, who exactly they are, and how it/they threaten you? With radical Islam it's easy. They believe you're an infidel and if you do not submit to them they have license to kill you. Your turn.

Obviously, you have no idea. IOW, radical Christianity is just theoretical.

[Mister D]

It also doesn't really matter. The numbers of snake handlers is not relevant when compared to the Islaimists.

True. Don't forget the lone abortion bomber who strikes every 20 years.

[Gerrard Winstanley]

I'm not asking about radical Islam. Regarding "radical Christians", could you describe their doctrine for me, who exactly they are, and how it/they threaten you? With radical Islam it's easy. They believe you're an infidel and if you do not submit to them they have license to kill you. Your turn.

Obviously, you have no idea. IOW, radical Christianity is just theoretical.
So is radical Islam.

On the topic of religion, you're more fun telling us all how the Cathars brought the massacres upon themselves, or how the Inquisition were really nice chaps.

[Captain Obvious]

So is radical Islam.

On the topic of religion, you're more fun telling us all how the Cathars brought the massacres upon themselves, or how the Inquisition were really nice chaps.

Let's face it, you can't Tokemada anything.

[Mister D]

now if you will all excuse me, I have some heads to saw off. I will be sure to make a video of my..hmm let's call it a crusade...for the forum. :smiley:

[Captain Obvious]

now if you will all excuse me, I have some heads to saw off. I will be sure to make a video of my..hmm let's call it a crusade...for the forum. :smiley:

Be sure to fetch your rusty blade.

:biglaugh:

[Mister D]

So is radical Islam.

On the topic of religion, you're more fun telling us all how the Cathars brought the massacres upon themselves, or how the Inquisition were really nice chaps.

Yes, 9-11 and the London subway bombings were theoretical. Wow.

More than willing to discuss the events of the 13th Century (that's the 1200s, Polwatch). That's another trhread though.

[PolWatch]

what good would it do to cite any examples? you will just disregard as you did earlier:

'Puritans: get the fuck out. we don't want you here in our community anymore.
Probably an ancestor of @Captain Obvious (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=3) : fuck off. I'll do what I want, motherfuckers. You're all religious kooks.
Repeat several times. I'll spare you the final scene.
You seem to believe the Puritan community was not sovereign. It was and should have been. Don't like it? Leave. In any case, that's not the US. So, no, "it" never happened here. '

so I will cut to the bottom line...I'm not trying to attack or insult you or your faith. Christianity does not get a pass on crazy...whether its the 1st camp of the snake handlers or Jim Jones in Guyana. This country attempts to protect all religions from each other. Sometimes it seems like an impossible job because it always makes someone mad and someone else thinks they are being picked on. Make fun of me if you wish, but we need organizations like the ACLU who try to make equal rights a reality for everyone...even those we don't like.

[Captain Obvious]

what good would it do to cite any examples? you will just disregard as you did earlier:

'Puritans: get the fuck out. we don't want you here in our community anymore.
Probably an ancestor of @Captain Obvious (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=3) : fuck off. I'll do what I want, motherfuckers. You're all religious kooks.
Repeat several times. I'll spare you the final scene.
You seem to believe the Puritan community was not sovereign. It was and should have been. Don't like it? Leave. In any case, that's not the US. So, no, "it" never happened here. '

so I will cut to the bottom line...I'm not trying to attack or insult you or your faith. Christianity does not get a pass on crazy...whether its the 1st camp of the snake handlers or Jim Jones in Guyana. This country attempts to protect all religions from each other. Sometimes it seems like an impossible job because it always makes someone mad and someone else thinks they are being picked on. Make fun of me if you wish, but we need organizations like the ACLU who try to make equal rights a reality for everyone...even those we don't like.

Thank you

[Gerrard Winstanley]

Yes, 9-11 and the London subway bombings were theoretical. Wow.
No. The idea of radical Islam being some singular, united tendency. You don't have to include a reference closer to home to get my nipples tingly.

[Mister D]

what good would it do to cite any examples? you will just disregard as you did earlier:

'Puritans: get the fuck out. we don't want you here in our community anymore.
Probably an ancestor of @Captain Obvious (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=3) : fuck off. I'll do what I want, motherfuckers. You're all religious kooks.
Repeat several times. I'll spare you the final scene.
You seem to believe the Puritan community was not sovereign. It was and should have been. Don't like it? Leave. In any case, that's not the US. So, no, "it" never happened here. '

so I will cut to the bottom line...I'm not trying to attack or insult you or your faith. Christianity does not get a pass on crazy...whether its the 1st camp of the snake handlers or Jim Jones in Guyana. This country attempts to protect all religions from each other. Sometimes it seems like an impossible job because it always makes someone mad and someone else thinks they are being picked on. Make fun of me if you wish, but we need organizations like the ACLU who try to make equal rights a reality for everyone...even those we don't like.

no one suggested it does. See why I'm being a little dismissive of you? The topic is the supposed similarity between radical Islam and this thing called "radical Christianity" that its creators cannot seem to describe for us.

[Rebel Son]

Still have your rusty blade handy @Mister D (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=4) ?

:biglaugh:



I'm agnostic, never wanted to kill anybody. I think D is pretty religious, not reading it all so your point is what since we agree on some stuff?

[Dr. Who]

I had this guy stop me in Dupont Circle as I was walking around with a gay friend and he tells us that homosexuals and idolators will go to Hell. Then he asks me (my Georgetown hoodie was on) if I knew that Catholics were idolators. I go, "Sure. Mary bless you." Then I made the sign of the cross at him and walked on.

I really don't care about words. Words aren't rocks.

When I was in Egypt I had some kids pelt me with rocks because my head was uncovered. I also had some men scare me by offering my husband animals for me. That is the type of religion that scares me, not people who think they're hot shit on Facebook.
Sometimes they are. It depends who is throwing them.

[Rebel Son]

I had this guy stop me in Dupont Circle as I was walking around with a gay friend and he tells us that homosexuals and idolators will go to Hell. Then he asks me (my Georgetown hoodie was on) if I knew that Catholics were idolators. I go, "Sure. Mary bless you." Then I made the sign of the cross at him and walked on.

I really don't care about words. Words aren't rocks.

When I was in Egypt I had some kids pelt me with rocks because my head was uncovered. I also had some men scare me by offering my husband animals for me. That is the type of religion that scares me, not people who think they're hot shit on Facebook.

You went to a shit hole,,,,,,,,,,,for what reason?

[Dr. Who]

No, and nobody is implying that all Christians are kooks. I'd say most of them aren't.

Just like when the mainstream Muslim looks the other way when radical Islam makes the news, just like the mainstream black community looks the other way on issues like black crime, drug use, low educational scores, etc. the mainstream Christian community does not do a good job when they're "brethren" are out there being assholes.

It suddenly turns into a crusade against Christianity. "Oh no, it's teh war on Christmas", blah blah...

Religion is a funny thing, it makes some people crazy. We need to be really careful in this country that the religious right whackjobs don't get out of hand.
I agree. No religion should think it has the right to dictate anything to anyone. I'm in favor of honoring all manner of religious celebrations, but I'm against the co-mingling of religion and secular law. People who love their religions should go ahead and apply it to themselves, but don't try to require others to buy into it. Conversely, don't try to impose secular beliefs on religious establishments and try to force said establishments to accede to secular pressure.

[Dr. Who]

These TV "evangelist" assholes taking old lady's social security checks every week isn't out of hand? These Christian science people who let their kids die because they think prayer works better than medical attention isn't out of hand? How many cases of priest rape and molestation have suddenly turned up, all the while the Catholic Church was busy trying to keep everything hush.

Don't look the other way, brother Christian. It's there. Again, maybe nobody's sawing anyone's heads off, we do an ok job in this country keeping the religious kookery at a minimum but again, my point is - if we didn't, heads would be sawed. If we let the radical religious right have their way this would be a theocracy and any non-Christian would be persecuted.
Given the rabidity of some Christian sects, you are probably right.

[del]

So is radical Islam.

On the topic of religion, you're more fun telling us all how the Cathars brought the massacres upon themselves, or how the Inquisition were really nice chaps.

:rofl:

[Dr. Who]

And I disagree. Modern American Christianity, even the really odd types, are fundamentally different from militant Islam.

They aren't going on the war path to convert or kill anyone.
Never underestimate the power of hysteria. In times gone by Christian hysteria was employed to support non-religious agendas. See Salem witch trials. We are not so evolved from that time. It's not hard to induce hysteria in the unquestioning or simple minded. It is easy to cherry pick from the OT to justify any manner of horror. Never say never.

[Rebel Son]

Given the rabidity of some Christian sects, you are probably right.
And who cares if there is a god or not?? Human morality has gone to shit, or what. I'm so tired of hearing that you have to be a christian to be a good person. On the other side those who don't are devil worsipers. I know wrong spelling. but damn.

[countryboy]

We don't have too many racing around with machetes but we do a lot of 'em who think that anyone who doesn't agree with them have no right to their opinion. I see it a lot in this area. We see people protesting the 'war on Christmas', defending their right to worship in the aisles of our Lady of Wal-Mart, while objecting to the request to display a Menorah at a community holiday event. No one is using violence...yet.

I don't believe that for a nanosecond.

[Dr. Who]

And who cares if there is a god or not?? Human morality has gone to shit, or what. I'm so tired of hearing that you have to be a christian to be a good person. On the other side those who don't are devil worsipers. I know wrong spelling. but damn.
I've said before, you don't have to be an adherent to any faith to be moral. Morality really comes from within. Faiths are teaching tools and add the worship of a deity to, in some cases, scare people into good behavior. While I come from a Christian background and still believe in some kind of creator, I don't believe in redemptive justice in the sense that is expressed in Judeo/Christian religion. I think that karma is what it is and if you are a waste of skin in this life, you will have additional hurdles in the next and if you are truly nasty, you will go back to the first grade in terms of your ability to manipulate your environment when you next appear here or elsewhere in the universe. I think that life is about spiritual growth and lessons to be learned, but I don't believe in Heaven or Hell in the biblical sense.

[Green Arrow]

I don't believe that for a nanosecond.

Of course not, we're talking about Christians. If it were Muslims or atheists, I doubt you'd have a hard time believing it, though.

Are there any imperfect, bad Christians, my friend?

[countryboy]

Of course not, we're talking about Christians. If it were Muslims or atheists, I doubt you'd have a hard time believing it, though.

Are there any imperfect, bad Christians, my friend?
Tons of em. Or, more accurately, there are a ton of assholes who call themselves "Christians". People throw this shit out there to see what sticks. You've hung around Christians for most of your life, yes? Have you personally known any Christians who would object to a Menorah being displayed at a community holiday event? Yeah, me neither.

[Green Arrow]

And for the record, with all due respect to my good friends kilgram and Captain Obvious, I don't buy this idea that Christian fundamentalists would be just as bad as Islamic fundamentalists. That, to me, is just paranoid hysterics and frankly, there's no evidence of it.

I grew up Christian, and though I left the faith over ten years ago, I still am deeply immersed in that culture, because I live in the South, I go to church regularly, and 90% of the people I know are Christians of one stripe or another. The fundamentalists are annoying, but save for an extremely small fringe that exist in every single group of people in humanity, they do not engage in violence.

[Green Arrow]

Tons of em. Or, more accurately, there are a ton of assholes who call themselves "Christians". People throw this shit out there to see what sticks. You've hung around Christians for most of your life, yes? Have you personally known any Christians who would object to a Menorah being displayed at a community holiday event? Yeah, me neither.

Actually, yes, I have.

[countryboy]

Actually, yes, I have.
Fair enough. I haven't.

[spunkloaf]

This is a tired canard of the secular kooks. I'll repeat: I do not care if predominately Muslim communities have Islamic symbols in public displays. Why do you?

You have a sort of point, at least to satisfy one perspective of the issue. I think the most fundamental elements in this issue are ownership and entitlement.

I noticed that I don't really have a problem with Christian logos on public properties and currency until I confront the subject in a conversation. It could be because when I encounter an opponent on the matter, I am plagued by this preconception that they represent all Christians and that they feel they're entitled to project their beliefs unto all of the US because they assume they are the country's spiritual superintendents.

The only cause for my anger is in the sensation that some people believe they are better than their peers, and they have the audacity to conduct themselves in public with that kind of attitude and higher authority. Although I know it's not the case, it's naturally an annoying trespass against me and my voice as a citizen. That is not to mention that the moment that I might complain about "In God We Trust" scribbled all over public properties, some "Christians" will attack with the un-Christ-like viciousness of an unreasonably provoked victim, as if it is their constitutional right to vandalize public property exclusively with their propaganda rather than a borderline crime that the rest of us have tolerated too far.

Furthermore, these same "Christians" will compare the issue to gays wanting to marry, and to atheists supporting abortion...it's sort of ridiculous how high their threshold of entitlement is in this country which they believe they rule.

Genuine Christians (and other faiths of God) should know that their faith is not measured by how big and bright their billboard is, and I expect that they are mature enough to understand why it's offensive to stamp their religious branding all over things that are jointly owned by people outside of their faith. It's too bad that their modesty and humbled nature stifles their good example among all the politicized ruckus of their acquainted "Christian" posers.

The only reason any true Christian should feel offended would be if "In God We Trust" was replaced by "There is no God" or "Everybody Should Be Gay" or "Abortion is Awesome" or "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle, and Piss off a Christian" rather than being omitted from public property altogether. There are few things more annoying than somebody who acts offended where they are merely asked to be more fair, and unfortunately it is mostly these ingenuine "Christians" lately who are playing that victimized role.

I don't consider you as a "Christian" poser BTW, D-wang, only somewhat bewildered and offended by non-Christian people whose motives you probably misunderstand. And there are probably many genuine Christians like yourself who feel similarly provoked by people who share my sentiments on this issue. It's important that people completely convey their intentions behind their ambitions, especially when they can appear to be hostile and prejudiced.

I promise that it's not prejudice or hostility that drives people to have religious logos removed from public property, but a desire for as much mutual respect, attention, fairness and equality in our country as possible.

[Rebel Son]

I've said before, you don't have to be an adherent to any faith to be moral. Morality really comes from within. Faiths are teaching tools and add the worship of a deity to, in some cases, scare people into good behavior. While I come from a Christian background and still believe in some kind of creator, I don't believe in redemptive justice in the sense that is expressed in Judeo/Christian religion. I think that karma is what it is and if you are a waste of skin in this life, you will have additional hurdles in the next and if you are truly nasty, you will go back to the first grade in terms of your ability to manipulate your environment when you next appear here or elsewhere in the universe. I think that life is about spiritual growth and lessons to be learned, but I don't believe in Heaven or Hell in the biblical sense.


Religion is a killing tool........Thousands of years, no lessons learned.......We here will be different in what way? I've argued that point about religion before,,,,,,been laughed at. Probably will again.

[Dr. Who]

Religion is a killing tool........Thousands of years, no lessons learned.......We here will be different in what way? I've argued that point about religion before,,,,,,been laughed at. Probably will again.
I hear you. Religion has and continues to be the most divisive tool on the planet. It inherently creates an us and them dynamic and a desire on the part of some to impose their worldview on others. If you aren't one of us, you are an enemy, a heretic or a devil.

[Rebel Son]

I hear you. Religion has and continues to be the most divisive tool on the planet. It inherently creates an us and them dynamic and a desire on the part of some to impose their worldview on others. If you aren't one of us, you are an enemy, a heretic or a devil.
Agreed.

[spunkloaf]

Religion is a killing tool........Thousands of years, no lessons learned.......We here will be different in what way? I've argued that point about religion before,,,,,,been laughed at. Probably will again.



I hear you. Religion has and continues to be the most divisive tool on the planet. It inherently creates an us and them dynamic and a desire on the part of some to impose their worldview on others. If you aren't one of us, you are an enemy, a heretic or a devil.

I empathize with both your feelings but I ultimately disagree with the preciseness of where you place the blame. I would say it's a lack of things like empathy, effective communication, adequately conveyed intentions, and exploitation by public figures among religion(s) (eat your heart out, Michelle Bachmann) which causes us to become divided and argumentative. Even if religions do conflict with scientific reason and reality, and even if they are misunderstood and misused by their participants and by imposters, their intentions and principles are not much different from beliefs and disciplines of any others--including atheists. Most people just want a better world and a richer, enlightened society to share it with. Religion has appeared to backstep on those goals, but faith is not to blame. Humanity is. As an agnostic, former atheist and former Catholic, I recognize this.

[Dark Mistress]

I remember studying world religions in college, Islam being one among them, and being fascinated and in awe at the beauty of many of the world's different faiths. I love the study of other religions even though it is something I certainly don't devote much time to anymore. There is goodness and beauty in almost every faith, it is the mere mortal who corrupts religion IMO.

[spunkloaf]

Applause to Dark Mistress since my thanks button seems to not work.

[Rebel Son]

I remember studying world religions in college, Islam being one among them, and being fascinated and in awe at the beauty of many of the world's different faiths. I love the study of other religions even though it is something I certainly don't devote much time to anymore. There is goodness and beauty in almost every faith, it is the mere mortal who corrupts religion IMO.

Not so..........its the mortal who corrupts faith...........that is dangerous.

[spunkloaf]

I remember studying world religions in college, Islam being one among them, and being fascinated and in awe at the beauty of many of the world's different faiths. I love the study of other religions even though it is something I certainly don't devote much time to anymore. There is goodness and beauty in almost every faith, it is the mere mortal who corrupts religion IMO.
To piggy - back on this point, the important thing is that people see the goodness in eachother and demonstrate tolerance and open-mindedness. Since their individual faiths cower in comparison to the awesomeness of the higher powers they serve, nobody from any religion should put their faith before the common good of humankind.

[Dark Mistress]

I am a Christian myself. In my faith we are taught to look for the good in ALL religions. I firmly believe in this, but I see individuals of my faith calling Catholicism, Islam, etc evil. I certainly don't believe that. They will think what they will, but it is not what the our faith preaches. We need less of that hate.

Sometimes it's just like with individuals. We can look for the good in others or focus on their flaws, but then again there seems to be individuals with no redeeming qualities...

[Dr. Who]

I empathize with both your feelings but I ultimately disagree with the preciseness of where you place the blame. I would say it's a lack of empathy, effective communication, adequately conveyed intentions, and exploitation by public figures among religion(s) (eat your heart out, Michelle Bachmann) which causes us to become divided and argumentative. Even if religions do conflict with scientific reason and reality, and even if they are misunderstood and misused by their participants and by imposters, their intentions and principles are not much different from beliefs and disciplines of any others--including atheists. Most people just want a better world and a richer, enlightened society to share it with. Religion has appeared to backstep on those goals, but faith is not to blame. Humanity is. As an agnostic, former atheist and former Catholic, I recognize this.
I was careful in my statement. I suggested that religion is a divisive tool. That was deliberate. There is no any inherent wrongness with religions themselves, it is how people use them, much as a shovel can be used to dig a hole or also be used to smash someone's skull. The wrongness is in the people who use their religion as a determination of worthiness and superiority. Said people essentially miss the core messages of their religions and pick and choose excerpts from parables and larger instructive texts to persecute those who disagree with their their worldview. Many people do have an aversion to anything that is different and if it's different, it must be evil and dangerous. Other people use the tool to enhance their status and wealth. In combination, you have an army of hate.

[Dark Mistress]

Not so..........its the mortal who corrupts faith...........that is dangerous.

It can be dangerous. If we allow it to be. Many faiths have been corrupted by corrupt mortals, but not all followers are led astray. Some corruption leads one to truth in a different light.

[Rebel Son]

I empathize with both your feelings but I ultimately disagree with the preciseness of where you place the blame. I would say it's a lack of things like empathy, effective communication, adequately conveyed intentions, and exploitation by public figures among religion(s) (eat your heart out, Michelle Bachmann) which causes us to become divided and argumentative. Even if religions do conflict with scientific reason and reality, and even if they are misunderstood and misused by their participants and by imposters, their intentions and principles are not much different from beliefs and disciplines of any others--including atheists. Most people just want a better world and a richer, enlightened society to share it with. Religion has appeared to backstep on those goals, but faith is not to blame. Humanity is. As an agnostic, former atheist and former Catholic, I recognize this.

Then prove to me religion hasn't caused the major wars in the world.

[Rebel Son]

It can be dangerous. If we allow it to be. Many faiths have been corrupted by corrupt mortals, but not all followers are led astray. Some corruption leads one to truth in a different light.

But you can't stop it........there is the problem. We have people who want to kill up from everywhere, that we could have stopped. Now, I'm not sure.

[spunkloaf]

Then prove to me religion hasn't caused the major wars in the world.
I suppose I can only attempt to prove that when you attempt to prove that they have caused the major wars. Look, religion is definitely elemental in the conflicts in the modern and historical world but it can't be ignored that they are just tools- just like guns- that have occasionally been misused.

[Rebel Son]

I suppose I can only attempt to prove that when you attempt to prove that they have caused the major wars. Look, religion is definitely elemental in the conflicts in the modern and historical world but it can't be ignored that they are just tools- just like guns- that have occasionally been misused.

Religion is the basis for all major wars,,,,,,minor were over land. Major........religion.

And who made them tools,,,,,,,,,they did......They let themselves become tools...

[spunkloaf]

I was careful in my statement. I suggested that religion is a divisive tool. That was deliberate. There is no any inherent wrongness with religions themselves, it is how people use them, much as a shovel can be used to dig a hole or also be used to smash someone's skull. The wrongness is in the people who use their religion as a determination of worthiness and superiority. Said people essentially miss the core messages of their religions and pick and choose excerpts from parables and larger instructive texts to persecute those who disagree with their their worldview. Many people do have an aversion to anything that is different and if it's different, it must be evil and dangerous. Other people use the tool to enhance their status and wealth. In combination, you have an army of hate.
Well, I guess I see your reasoning now...and I wholeheartedly agree. I thought "divisive tool" meant a tool that is purposed for creating conflict, rather than a tool that occasionally has that tendency. If you knew me 7 years ago on this forum, I'd be telling you that religion is evil and corruptive, and that Christianity is the epitome of corporate evil and conspiracy.

[Rebel Son]

It can be dangerous. If we allow it to be. Many faiths have been corrupted by corrupt mortals, but not all followers are led astray. Some corruption leads one to truth in a different light.

You think that will change, corrupt mortals...........?? Those who chose dark rather than light. Those who would fall than live in Valhalla?

[pjohns]

I don't believe in Valhalla...

I think there is a place in Knoxville (Tennessee) known as Vol Hollow...

[pjohns]

I don't wear a WWJD sign on my back...

Actually, I have always considered it presumptuous to ask (and then answer) the question, "What Would Jesus Do?," as it allows one to superimpose one's own views upon Jesus.

[pjohns]

[T]he big corporations and other thieves deserve to pay more than the others.

I find it most instructive that you would consider "big corporations" equivalent to "thieves."

But I suppose that is merely in keeping with (undiluted) Marxian doctrine...

[pjohns]

And what pointed out is that radical Christianity is no different.

I am unaware of any Christians who are currently in the process of beheading, crucifying, or even burning alive the practitioners of other religions, in order to establish their own theocracy (as with ISIS--or ISIL--in northern Iraq and part of Syria). Or who are kidnapping hundreds of innocent girls (as with Boko Haram in Nigeria).

[pjohns]

I'm sure you have heard of the snake handlers of Appalachia...they take the verse in Mark about taking up serpents literally.

Obviously, textual criticism is not their strong suit. (The so-called "Long Conclusion" to the Gospel of Mark--i.e. Mark 16:9-20--is not contained in any of the older uncial manuscripts, such as Codices Vaticanus and Sinaiticus.)

[pjohns]

The only cause for my anger is in the sensation that some people believe they are better than their peers, and they have the audacity to conduct themselves in public with that kind of attitude and higher authority. Although I know it's not the case, it's naturally an annoying trespass against me and my voice as a citizen. That is not to mention that the moment that I might complain about "In God We Trust" scribbled all over public properties, some "Christians" will attack with the un-Christ-like viciousness of an unreasonably provoked victim, as if it is their constitutional right to vandalize public property exclusively with their propaganda rather than a borderline crime that the rest of us have tolerated too far.



The words found on our coins--"In God We Trust"--have (quite accurately, I believe) been described as ceremonial deism. They are certainly not intended as a serious attempt at evangelizing.

The deep, visceral opposition of a few to these (quite innocuous) words strikes me as being essentially anti-religious; and that is very different than its merely being non-religious...

[Captain Obvious]

no one suggested it does. See why I'm being a little dismissive of you? The topic is the supposed similarity between radical Islam and this thing called "radical Christianity" that its creators cannot seem to describe for us.

There were many examples made throughout this thread, the fact you chose to disregard them is on you, not everyone else.

[Captain Obvious]

I am unaware

Correct

[Peter1469]

Religion is the basis for all major wars,,,,,,minor were over land. Major........religion.

And who made them tools,,,,,,,,,they did......They let themselves become tools...

Most wars in history were not related to religion at all.

[kilgram]

Translation, the State will think for you. If you don't like it, you shall be purged.
Translation: You said a stupid thing. And no. I didn't say that.

I said that religion exists thanks to the ignorance of people. It is a fact. When less ignorant is the people, less religious is. BEcause they find the knowledge in other ways.

[Peter1469]

Translation: You said a stupid thing. And no. I didn't say that.

I said that religion exists thanks to the ignorance of people. It is a fact. When less ignorant is the people, less religious is. BEcause they find the knowledge in other ways.

And I said something stupid?

[midcan5]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEJx8cYnUuE

[Libhater]

I said that religion exists thanks to the ignorance of people. It is a fact. When less ignorant is the people, less religious is. BEcause they find the knowledge in other ways.

Are you just trying to be illiterate, or is it something embedded in your DNA?

[countryboy]

Translation: You said a stupid thing. And no. I didn't say that.

I said that religion exists thanks to the ignorance of people. It is a fact. When less ignorant is the people, less religious is. BEcause they find the knowledge in other ways.
As you have demonstrated time and time again, you do not know the difference between fact and opinion. Not to mention the definition of the word, "ignorance".

[spunkloaf]

The words found on our coins--"In God We Trust"--have (quite accurately, I believe) been described as ceremonial deism. They are certainly not intended as a serious attempt at evangelizing.

The deep, visceral opposition of a few to these (quite innocuous) words strikes me as being essentially anti-religious; and that is very different than its merely being non-religious...
OK. But that should be declared and clarified with everybody including some Christians who use it to claim spiritual authority in the US.

[Guerilla]

I don't think it's religion that makes people violent or tolerant, but their environment. It's basically the chimp vs. bonobo argument. Over a thousand years ago Christian Europe was in similar conditions as the rest of the world, and thus they were just as violent as everyone else. Since muslims still live in those conditions they remain violent.

The Christian West seems to be the only ones to have considerably risen from those poor conditions, thus they remain relatively peaceful people.

Muslims and Christians have been fighting a lot in Africa recently. Africa is also crappy conditions like in the ME and in older Europe.

Just recently the Buddhists in Myanmar began killing and persecuting a minority population of muslims, the Rohingya Muslims. (http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2014/08/myanmar-rohingya-deprived-education-201484105134827695.html) Myanmar is generally crappy conditions as well.

Crappy conditions make people violent.

[Captain Obvious]

I don't think it's religion that makes people violent or tolerant, but their environment. It's basically the chimp vs. bonobo argument. Over a thousand years ago Christian Europe was in similar conditions as the rest of the world, and thus they were just as violent as everyone else. Since muslims still live in those conditions they remain violent.

The Christian West seems to be the only ones to have considerably risen from those poor conditions, thus they remain relatively peaceful people.

Muslims and Christians have been fighting a lot in Africa recently. Africa is also crappy conditions like in the ME and in older Europe.

Just recently the Buddhists in Myanmar began killing and persecuting a minority population of muslims, the Rohingya Muslims. (http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2014/08/myanmar-rohingya-deprived-education-201484105134827695.html) Myanmar is generally crappy conditions as well.

Crappy conditions make people violent.

Things are crappy in Saudi Arabia?

[Mister D]

I hear you. Religion has and continues to be the most divisive tool on the planet. It inherently creates an us and them dynamic and a desire on the part of some to impose their worldview on others. If you aren't one of us, you are an enemy, a heretic or a devil.

You have it backwards. Tell us, what unites people? Well, we've eliminated religion so...hmmm politics? Yeah, that can work too. Of course politics has been far more deadly when it becomes absolute as, again, the history of the 20th Century clearly demonstrates. So what do we have? Blood and kinship? Culture and race? :wink: Please, spare us the empty chatter about humanity. It fails to inspire. That's a fact. Not my opinion.

[Mister D]

To piggy - back on this point, the important thing is that people see the goodness in eachother and demonstrate tolerance and open-mindedness. Since their individual faiths cower in comparison to the awesomeness of the higher powers they serve, nobody from any religion should put their faith before the common good of humankind.

What exactly do those things mean? I think you may have a tendency to confuse tolerance with accetpance.

[Mister D]

Then prove to me religion hasn't caused the major wars in the world.

Prove it has. You made the claim.

[Mister D]

I suppose I can only attempt to prove that when you attempt to prove that they have caused the major wars. Look, religion is definitely elemental in the conflicts in the modern and historical world but it can't be ignored that they are just tools- just like guns- that have occasionally been misused.

Yeah? Which ones?

[Captain Obvious]

You have it backwards. Tell us, what unites people? Well, we've eliminated religion so...hmmm politics? Yeah, that can work too. Of course politics has been far more deadly when it becomes absolute as, again, the history of the 20th Century clearly demonstrates. So what do we have? Blood and kinship? Culture and race? :wink: Please, spare us the empty chatter about humanity. It fails to inspire. That's a fact. Not my opinion.

What unites people?

Historically external threats do.

That's pretty much it, everything else like religion, politics, race divides us.

[Mister D]

Religion is the basis for all major wars,,,,,,minor were over land. Major........religion.

And who made them tools,,,,,,,,,they did......They let themselves become tools...

Yeah? Which ones?

[Mister D]

There were many examples made throughout this thread, the fact you chose to disregard them is on you, not everyone else.

Please show us one.

[Captain Obvious]

Please show us one.

Go do your own homework.

Nigga please...

[Mister D]

I don't think it's religion that makes people violent or tolerant, but their environment. It's basically the chimp vs. bonobo argument. Over a thousand years ago Christian Europe was in similar conditions as the rest of the world, and thus they were just as violent as everyone else. Since muslims still live in those conditions they remain violent.

The Christian West seems to be the only ones to have considerably risen from those poor conditions, thus they remain relatively peaceful people.

Muslims and Christians have been fighting a lot in Africa recently. Africa is also crappy conditions like in the ME and in older Europe.

Just recently the Buddhists in Myanmar began killing and persecuting a minority population of muslims, the Rohingya Muslims. (http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2014/08/myanmar-rohingya-deprived-education-201484105134827695.html) Myanmar is generally crappy conditions as well.

Crappy conditions make people violent.

Europe became more not less violent in the modern era.

[Dark Mistress]

But you can't stop it........there is the problem. We have people who want to kill up from everywhere, that we could have stopped. Now, I'm not sure.

I am a believer that judgment day comes for all. And the justice of the higher being is harsher in the next life than this one. Especially for those guilty of heinous crimes against innocent people. In this I find some comfort.

We do not have control over anyone but ourselves. This is something I have to remind myself as a parent. I cannot control my children even though it is in my nature to try to control things in life. The best thing I can learn is to exercise self control and be an example to them and those around me.

[Mister D]

Go do your own homework.

Nigga please...

Thought as much. Thanks for not wasting our time.

[Mister D]

What unites people?

Historically external threats do.

That's pretty much it, everything else like religion, politics, race divides us.

How can something be external if there is no unity? You're not making sense. In order for something to be external there must exist a consciousness of difference.

[Captain Obvious]

Thought as much. Thanks for not wasting our time.

You're welcome, and yes - I agree. It would be a waste of time.

Examples, several of them have already been presented and discussed. You're denial of acknowledgement would be a waste of time.

[Guerilla]

Things are crappy in Saudi Arabia?

No, but just about every other place in the world (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index)follows what I said. You seem to have only found an outlier.

I'm not saying culture and mindset can't play a part, or that there aren't other influences. But a consistent trend is that poorer conditions are more violent, and better living conditions people are more friendly and tolerant.

[Captain Obvious]

How can something be external if there is no unity? You're not making sense. In order for something to be external there must exist a consciousness of difference.

No click, read it again.

War unites us, terrorism unites us.

Click? No?

Religion divides us, politics divide us, racial intolerance divides us.

Boom!

[Mister D]

No click, read it again.

War unites us, terrorism unites us.

Click? No?

Religion divides us, politics divide us, racial intolerance divides us.

Boom!

That seems to have been a dud.

If an entity is at war then it must be something, right? For example, it must be a state, a people, etc, right? The fact that you are at war presupposes some kind of unity, right? Otherwise, who exactly is making war on whom? It doesn't make any sense. Click?

Better still, who is "us"? Why are we "us"? That also implies unity.

:smiley:

[Captain Obvious]

That seems to have been a dud.

If an entity is at war then it must be something, right? For example, it must be a state, a people, etc, right? The fact that you are at war presupposes some kind of unity, right? Otherwise, who exactly is making war on whom? It doesn't make any sense. Click?

Better still, who is "us"? Why are we "us"? That also implies unity.

:smiley:

Semantics.

An entity can be divided, or united or anywhere on the spectrum.

[Mister D]

You're welcome, and yes - I agree. It would be a waste of time.

Examples, several of them have already been presented and discussed. You're denial of acknowledgement would be a waste of time.

Well, we had Sally Sue copy and paste something from Wikipedia. I'm not sure what her point was though. Then Sally babbled something about snake handlers throwing snakes at people. I couldn't help laughing. Anything else?

[Captain Obvious]

Well, we had Sally Sue copy and paste something from Wikipedia. I'm not sure what her point was though. Then Sally babbled something about snake handlers throwing snakes at people. I couldn't help laughing. Anything else?

No, you're dismissed.

:biglaugh:

[Mister D]

Semantics.

An entity can be divided, or united or anywhere on the spectrum.

It's logic. An entity has to have some kind of common identity or you wouldn't refer to it as such.

[Mister D]

No, you're dismissed.

:biglaugh:

After I saw off your head I'm going to shove a snake down your throat.

[spunkloaf]

Yeah? Which ones?
Iraqi freedom, for one. Notice I said religion and not Christianity, although some can associate Christianity with the anti-Muslim propaganda that was needed to persuade the public's approval.

The crusades.

Don't freak. I'm defending religion if you haven't noticed.

[spunkloaf]

What exactly do those things mean? I think you may have a tendency to confuse tolerance with accetpance.
No, not when I observe a faction in society which has the audacity to hinder the liberties of others based exclusively on their beliefs. That swerves violently from the realm of non-acceptance into non-tolerance. Either way, in our modern political climate you and I both know that both terms are so influenced and exploited by the media and political swayers that they are practically interchangeable because of the mere severity of propaganda.

[del]

Thought as much. Thanks for not wasting our time.

perhaps you could extend the same courtesy?

[spunkloaf]

After I saw off your head I'm going to shove a snake down your throat.
:o

:)

:D

;)

[Guerilla]

Europe became more not less violent in the modern era.

Yes statism is a terrible thing. Individuals do not kill each other in mass, individuals in Europe and America and Canada are all pretty friendly. But states rally you to fight an enemy you, as an individual, don't even know, that's why it has been easy for them to kill so many.

None of the americans care when a government drone accidentally blows up an innocent family in the desert. With a state their is disconnect, between the people and the state actions and their opponent. This disconnect allows for inhuman behavior.

[Mister D]

Iraqi freedom, for one. Notice I said religion and not Christianity, although some can associate Christianity with the anti-Muslim propaganda that was needed to persuade the public's approval.

The crusades.

Don't freak. I'm defending religion if you haven't noticed.

Wait what? Iraqi Freedom was a religious war? Well, that's true only in the sense that liberal progress is in fact a religion or at least the empty shell of Christianity. Otherwise, this is just crazy talk at best. At worst, you're parroting AQ propaganda about a Christian crusade.

The Crusades? I think they were great but I'll grant you they were completely religious for the sake of argument. The last crusade was over 600 years ago.


Don't freak. If you haven't noticed I'm trying to be respectful. :smiley:

[Mister D]

perhaps you could extend the same courtesy?

Perhaps you could actually contribute something to the thread?


:smiley_ROFLMAO: I'm just teasing. I know you can't.

[spunkloaf]

You have it backwards. Tell us, what unites people? Well, we've eliminated religion so...hmmm politics? Yeah, that can work too. Of course politics has been far more deadly when it becomes absolute as, again, the history of the 20th Century clearly demonstrates. So what do we have? Blood and kinship? Culture and race? :wink: Please, spare us the empty chatter about humanity. It fails to inspire. That's a fact. Not my opinion.
What you're describing doesn't altogether fit religion by the way I understand it. Close, but not precisely. A common good can exist without religion. That is, if you mean that religion must be dogmatic. If not, then religion is more loose in terms and you can be correct in your statement.

[Mister D]

No, not when I observe a faction in society which has the audacity to hinder the liberties of others based exclusively on their beliefs. That swerves violently from the realm of non-acceptance into non-tolerance. Either way, in our modern political climate you and I both know that both terms are so influenced and exploited by the media and political swayers that they are practically interchangeable because of the mere severity of propaganda.

You seem to blur the two. For example, I think gay marriage is inane. Is that a lack of acceptance of a lack of tolerance? Actually, it's neither. Let me think of a better example. OK. Let's say I disapprove of homosexuality on moral grounds. Is that a lack of acceptance or a lack of tolerance?