Questions within the revenue vs. spending debate

[donttread]

IMHO, there can be no question that no amount of revenue would be enough to satisfy the two headed spending monster that is the American government. And no question that much of her spending is unnecessary, unwise and serves interest different from those of the average citizen.
Frankly, I cannot imagine anyone seriously arguing otherwise
Still the two major questions remain
1) How and where should we cut spending
2) How should we raise revenue and from whom

IMO, we need to slash federal spending across the board with exceptions of SS and Medicare which we have pre paid for and federal wages which should be frozen but not cut. Everything else, including budgets for congressional offices and staff , The Dept of Offense , etc would be cut 10% per year until we were running a surplus and paying down the debt. The "scalpel" idea sounds great until you consider that your "representatives" have failed to learn how to use it.

As for revenue. I must admit the idea of the super rich paying more does appeal to me because they have benefited from a very tilted table.

[Chris]

I would cut according to the following criteria:

If the law or agency, within enumerated constitutional powers,



1) protects individual rights
2) promotes general not special welfare



keep, otherwise cut.

Revenue should be derived from some form of uniform consumption tax like the Fair Tax--uniform because that's constitutional.

If revenue doesn't rise to expenditures, cut some more.

[Mainecoons]

Eliminate the DoEd and all Federal education interference and largely wasted spending: $100 billion.
Restore the Department of Defense by downsizing the Department of Offense: $200 billion.
50 percent cut in scope and budget of HHS: $100 billion
50 percent cut in scope and budgets of Homeland Insecurity and the National Spying (on you) Agency: $100 billion.

Get rid of mostly stolen and wasted foreign aid, a scad of those useless boards and commissions and their spending, close the department of agriculture: $50 billion.

Repeal ObombedItCare and cut the overall Federal "work" force by a third: Should be worth another 25 billion or so.

Return Social Security and Medicare to their original intent, namely that if you pays, you gets otherwise you walks.

No more deficit, you may even have a little left over to take care of the SS and Medicare deficits for quite some time to come.

[darroll]

You can't lay off liberal employees (yummy voters), tax the rich or what is left of the middle class.

[The Sage of Main Street]

The 1% alone have $73 trillion. I'm sure that if default would cause worldwide catastrophe and the end of America, they will finally chip in their fair share. Or maybe our transnational plutocracy will just up and go to another country and suffocate class mobility there.

[donttread]

The real issue is how they accumulated that wealth. and on who's backs

[Peter1469]

The real issue is how they accumulated that wealth. and on who's backs Right. Whose? Fractional reserve banking- most money is fantasy.

[The Sage of Main Street]

Right. Whose? Fractional reserve banking- most money is fantasy. Again, sneakily putting down banks so that people will be stuck with predatory and accelerating equity investment by plutocratic parasites. Exposing the real motives of self-declared enemies of democracy. If banks have to get by with only the profits from other loans and a limited percentage of their depositors' money, they won't have enough to fund economic growth. It's easy to see the ulterior motives behind the Lizardtarian platform once you dismiss their pretense of honesty.

[Peter1469]

Again, sneakily putting down banks so that people will be stuck with predatory and accelerating equity investment by plutocratic parasites. Exposing the real motives of self-declared enemies of democracy. If banks have to get by with only the profits from other loans and a limited percentage of their depositors' money, they won't have enough to fund economic growth. It's easy to see the ulterior motives behind the Lizardtarian platform once you dismiss their pretense of honesty.
Oh!

[Jets]

Cut spending and pay down the debt. If the government has to find a way to do more with less so be it. Why should they be any different from anyone else who is barely making ends meet.

IMHO

[Peter1469]

Cut spending and pay down the debt. If the government has to find a way to do more with less so be it. Why should they be any different from anyone else who is barely making ends meet.

IMHO

It is not possible to pay off the debt. I would save up, then default and ride the storm out.

[donttread]

It is not possible to pay off the debt. I would save up, then default and ride the storm out.

It's possible over time . But first we must stop the proverbial bleeding

[Peter1469]

It's possible over time . But first we must stop the proverbial bleeding

Almost $18T in official debt plus the unfunded liabilities- dude impossible to pay off.

The measures that would have to be taken would be worse that us in default. I say f' the people stupid enough to float the loans. Our economy is so big that once we got over the shock we would roar back. Especially if it forced us to make stuff here. Get full employment and rebuild a middle class. Get out of the boot of central banks. End the Fed. Have the Treasury print Green Banks. Heck, even let the states print their own currency.

[Peter1469]

What $1T looks like (http://www.pagetutor.com/trillion/index.html)

A graphic presentation of what just $1T looks like.

[Stoney]

We could advance ideas on how we could get out of this mess, reduce taxes and regulations, move agencies and entitlements not allowed by a strict interpretation of the Constitution to the states and let them decide whether or not to maintain them. Its amazing what this country can do when its let loose.

But I would agree that we've probably too far gone to achieve any of this and the electorate has become convinced that government is the answer. We can't support this government and its becoming bigger every day.

[Chris]

If our government is so in debt it cannot be paid off then it's time to declare it bankrupt, close its doors, sell off "capitol" and start over.

[Stoney]

Yes, but so many of us believe that we can sustain the idea that someone else will pay for our sustenance that it'll just have to break of its own accord.

[donttread]

If our government is so in debt it cannot be paid off then it's time to declare it bankrupt, close its doors, sell off "capitol" and start over.

Or at least offer the creditors 50 cents on a dollar. It's all make believe money anyway

[Peter1469]

If our government is so in debt it cannot be paid off then it's time to declare it bankrupt, close its doors, sell off "capitol" and start over.
They aren't going to do that. They are going to continue as is and force a currency collapse. I imagine the people who really know it is coming are prepared and will be fine.

[Stoney]

Act of War by Brad Thor might having you think that through a little more. If you're "fine" and others are destitute there will be a struggle that most of us can't imagine.

[donttread]

Almost $18T in official debt plus the unfunded liabilities- dude impossible to pay off.

The measures that would have to be taken would be worse that us in default. I say f' the people stupid enough to float the loans. Our economy is so big that once we got over the shock we would roar back. Especially if it forced us to make stuff here. Get full employment and rebuild a middle class. Get out of the boot of central banks. End the Fed. Have the Treasury print Green Banks. Heck, even let the states print their own currency.

Excellent points

[Chris]

Or at least offer the creditors 50 cents on a dollar. It's all make believe money anyway

Inflation?

[The Sage of Main Street]

Right. Whose? Fractional reserve banking- most money is fantasy. The Federal Reserve was an answer to William Jennings Bryan's "Cross of Gold" speech. The money supply should expand as the economy expands. With more things to buy, the Fed has to create money to buy them. The private banks cannot meet the demand for money if they have to rely on deposits and profits only.