PDA

View Full Version : So how do we take our streets back?



donttread
08-16-2014, 07:27 PM
Militarized police. Violent gangs. Cartel activity. How do we bring this under better control? Make our streets safe again? I despise police brutality but also understand their life can be on the line at any moment. What is your overall solution?

Mine, or at least my first step, is to legalize drugs and use resulting tax dollars to treat addiction like a medical vs legal problem.

momsapplepie
08-16-2014, 07:42 PM
Sorry but I don't think legalizing drugs will stop drug related crimes or the black market.

darroll
08-16-2014, 07:54 PM
This is about the lawless in certain areas.

Peter1469
08-16-2014, 08:03 PM
Militarized police. Violent gangs. Cartel activity. How do we bring this under better control? Make our streets safe again? I despise police brutality but also understand their life can be on the line at any moment. What is your overall solution?

Mine, or at least my first step, is to legalize drugs and use resulting tax dollars to treat addiction like a medical vs legal problem.

That is one step.

I would also try to introduce transparency into politics so citizens can see who is buying their politicians.

donttread
08-16-2014, 08:21 PM
Sorry but I don't think legalizing drugs will stop drug related crimes or the black market.


Why not? I mean not completely but the moonshine and black market tobacco are just a fraction of those overall markets

donttread
08-16-2014, 08:23 PM
That is one step.

I would also try to introduce transparency into politics so citizens can see who is buying their politicians.

Robin Williams said thay should have to wear sponsorship patches like NASCAR in "Man of the Year"

Ransom
08-17-2014, 06:47 AM
Militarized police. Violent gangs. Cartel activity. How do we bring this under better control? Make our streets safe again? I despise police brutality but also understand their life can be on the line at any moment. What is your overall solution?

Mine, or at least my first step, is to legalize drugs and use resulting tax dollars to treat addiction like a medical vs legal problem.

The media can help, look how it's bent you into hysterics. This event is being overblown as usual, you liberals will herd with any flock. The solution we already have, the pied piper I'm sure has somewhere for you to go, :cya:

Alyosha
08-17-2014, 08:18 AM
Sorry but I don't think legalizing drugs will stop drug related crimes or the black market.

Pot legalization in just one state reduced the profit enough that cartels are giving up on pot (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/05/18/1300289/-Marijuana-legalization-hurting-Mexican-drug-cartels#). Black markets only sell what you can't get elsewhere. Drug related crime is both cartel violence and stealing to pay the high cost of drugs. Ending the unconstitutional prohibition will reduce violence and crime as prices come down.

Stoney
08-17-2014, 08:25 AM
I don't know where the quote came from but "Idle hands are the devil's workshop" is appropriate. People who have to work and have some purpose in life don't have the time or inclination to cause this kind of trouble. And they don't have the frustration involved with what they consider dead end socio economic conditions.

donttread
08-17-2014, 10:19 AM
Pot legalization in just one state reduced the profit enough that cartels are giving up on pot (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/05/18/1300289/-Marijuana-legalization-hurting-Mexican-drug-cartels#). Black markets only sell what you can't get elsewhere. Drug related crime is both cartel violence and stealing to pay the high cost of drugs. Ending the unconstitutional prohibition will reduce violence and crime as prices come down.

Portugal and others have achieved great results with decrimilization of drugs. I am unable to find any examples of where prohibition truly works

countryboy
08-17-2014, 10:42 AM
Portugal and others have achieved great results with decrimilization of drugs. I am unable to find any examples of where prohibition truly works
What are you talking about? Prohibition works great.....for the criminals.

countryboy
08-17-2014, 10:43 AM
I don't know where the quote came from but "Idle hands are the devil's workshop" is appropriate. People who have to work and have some purpose in life don't have the time or inclination to cause this kind of trouble. And they don't have the frustration involved with what they consider dead end socio economic conditions.
That is an excellent point. We shouldn't be paying a single able bodied person to sit around. If they can work, they should be.

Polecat
08-17-2014, 11:31 AM
I have thought a great deal about this issue and come to the conclusion that there is something very dark afoot. There is so much more tragedy being generated by drug policy than ANY drug could inflict by itself the only reason to keep ramping it up is nothing less than pure evil.

Stoney
08-17-2014, 12:09 PM
Those who support drug laws are loath to compare drugs laws to prohibition, but I don't see a lot of difference in the outcome.

donttread
08-17-2014, 12:18 PM
Those who support drug laws are loath to compare drugs laws to prohibition, but I don't see a lot of difference in the outcome.

There is no difference. Heroin OD's occur in large part because the addict can only guess at the strength and purity of their drug.

darroll
08-17-2014, 01:27 PM
Washington state is the new pot state.
The state has taxed pot and made the price twice as expensive as the cartel sell it for.
The cartel loves legalizing pot.
Dumb a$$es.

countryboy
08-17-2014, 01:32 PM
Washington state is the new pot state.
The state has taxed pot and made the price twice as expensive as the cartel sell it for.
The cartel loves legalizing pot.
Dumb a$$es.
That doesn't even make sense. Why would the criminals love being cut out of the equation?

donttread
08-17-2014, 04:11 PM
Washington state is the new pot state.
The state has taxed pot and made the price twice as expensive as the cartel sell it for.
The cartel loves legalizing pot.
Dumb a$$es.

That's a poor plan . A ten percent tax would fly easily

donttread
08-17-2014, 04:11 PM
Washington state is the new pot state.
The state has taxed pot and made the price twice as expensive as the cartel sell it for.
The cartel loves legalizing pot.
Dumb a$$es.

donttread
08-17-2014, 04:12 PM
Washington state is the new pot state.
The state has taxed pot and made the price twice as expensive as the cartel sell it for.
The cartel loves legalizing pot.
Dumb a$$es.

The prinical is not the problem here the implementation is.

kilgram
08-17-2014, 04:38 PM
Portugal and others have achieved great results with decrimilization of drugs. I am unable to find any examples of where prohibition truly works
I think that now has a similar law to the Spanish.

In Spain the consumption of drugs is legal. We can have plants of marijuana. What is illegal in Spain is the commerce of drugs. Selling pot is a crime.

donttread
08-17-2014, 04:53 PM
I think that now has a similar law to the Spanish.

In Spain the consumption of drugs is legal. We can have plants of marijuana. What is illegal in Spain is the commerce of drugs. Selling pot is a crime.

I'm having a conversation about decrimilizing drugs with a guy named kilogram! Think about that next time you're high.

kilgram
08-17-2014, 05:24 PM
I'm having a conversation about decrimilizing drugs with a guy named kilogram! Think about that next time you're high.
My name is Kilgram. No kilogram.

And second. I've never consumed any kind of drug. So don't insult me.

PS: What is the relation of a height unit (kilogram) with drugs?

The Xl
08-17-2014, 05:56 PM
The war on drugs has to go, so does gun control.

momsapplepie
08-17-2014, 05:59 PM
That doesn't even make sense. Why would the criminals love being cut out of the equation?

Because they aren't cut out of the equation. They raise their prices and still sell it on the black market for less than the state.

The Xl
08-17-2014, 06:07 PM
Because they aren't cut out of the equation. They raise their prices and still sell it on the black market for less than the state.

People won't risk buying the illegal stuff when it's legal. The illegal market solely exists because it's illegal.

See:Alcohol prohibition.

darroll
08-17-2014, 06:08 PM
That doesn't even make sense. Why would the criminals love being cut out of the equation?

People won't buy pot from the state as it's too expensive.

The Xl
08-17-2014, 06:09 PM
People won't buy pot from the state as it's too expensive.

The underground alcohol market is so big now, right?

Mister D
08-17-2014, 06:13 PM
People won't buy pot from the state as it's too expensive.

I disagree. A safe, convenient, and reliable source is worth the extra cost.

darroll
08-17-2014, 06:15 PM
The underground alcohol market is so big now, right?

Yup, they also sell a lot of moonshine.
Care-ful some bad booze will make you go blind. Pot Don't know.

Guerilla
08-17-2014, 06:16 PM
Because they aren't cut out of the equation. They raise their prices and still sell it on the black market for less than the state.

If we cut down on the regulation and taxation of weed, then I bet legal shops could outcompete the black market.

momsapplepie
08-17-2014, 06:17 PM
That's not going to happen. The only reason states passed this was for the tax money.

Guerilla
08-17-2014, 06:35 PM
That's not going to happen. The only reason states passed this was for the tax money.

I know it's bullshit. Everything is about money. People even want to compromise their belief on drugs, for money. Or they never had the belief in the first place which is worse.

The large marijuana businesses are lobbying to keep marijuana illegal (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/big-marijuana-lobby-fights-legalization-efforts-94816.html)so they don't have to deal with any competition. Classic crony-capitalism. It seems that the gov still allows some shops, but as long as they pay the heavy tax, which makes them unable to compete with the black market..

So what is more important to you, getting more tax money, or the stopping the black market?

Alyosha
08-17-2014, 06:38 PM
Because they aren't cut out of the equation. They raise their prices and still sell it on the black market for less than the state.

Oh? They marked up weed 400% over what it sells for in Colorado.

darroll
08-17-2014, 07:37 PM
If we cut down on the regulation and taxation of weed, then I bet legal shops could outcompete the black market.

Yes.... But
The states are already counting their money and the poor people that bought a pot shop are in for a surprise.

Remember other forms of taxation is in the states prayers.

Peter1469
08-17-2014, 07:39 PM
Don't forget that the medical MJ scheme leaves a paper trail of who is enjoying.

countryboy
08-17-2014, 09:12 PM
My name is Kilgram. No kilogram.

And second. I've never consumed any kind of drug. So don't insult me.

PS: What is the relation of a height unit (kilogram) with drugs?
Kilogram is a weight unit, not a length measurement. For some reason, drugs are sold by metric units even in the United States. Or, um, that's what I've heard. :f_whistle:

countryboy
08-17-2014, 09:14 PM
Because they aren't cut out of the equation. They raise their prices and still sell it on the black market for less than the state.
Valid point. For the record, although I am in favor of legalization, I have never been one of these people who say, "yeah, let's legalize it and tax the living shit out of it". Why entrust the government with even more money, when they have proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that they are poor stewards of the money we already let them confiscate from us at the point of a gun?

The Xl
08-17-2014, 09:17 PM
Yup, they also sell a lot of moonshine.
Care-ful some bad booze will make you go blind. Pot Don't know.

How is the underground alcohol market now compared to Prohibition?

We both know the answer.

donttread
08-17-2014, 09:28 PM
That's not going to happen. The only reason states passed this was for the tax money.


Of course it can happen, a reasonable tax dedicated to addiction treatment can still easily out compete the black market.

donttread
08-17-2014, 09:31 PM
I know it's bullshit. Everything is about money. People even want to compromise their belief on drugs, for money. Or they never had the belief in the first place which is worse.

The large marijuana businesses are lobbying to keep marijuana illegal (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/big-marijuana-lobby-fights-legalization-efforts-94816.html)so they don't have to deal with any competition. Classic crony-capitalism. It seems that the gov still allows some shops, but as long as they pay the heavy tax, which makes them unable to compete with the black market..

So what is more important to you, getting more tax money, or the stopping the black market?

Most of the cost of illegal drugs is due to their illegality. For example , heroin vs oxy

donttread
08-17-2014, 09:34 PM
My name is Kilgram. No kilogram.

And second. I've never consumed any kind of drug. So don't insult me.

PS: What is the relation of a height unit (kilogram) with drugs?

Height measurement? I was thinking Kilo ( yes I misread your name) no insult intended just pandering off and old SNL sketch