View Full Version : Concerning Libya.....
Concerning Libya.....lets look at this from the beginning.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/A_Benghazi_citizen_holding_King_Idris%27s_photo.JP G/220px-A_Benghazi_citizen_holding_King_Idris%27s_photo.JP G
A young Benghazian carrying (deposed) King Idris' photo. Support of the Senussi dynasty has traditionally been strong in Cyrenaica.[369]
Muhammad as-Senussi, former Crown Prince and son of the late King Idris, sent his condolences "for the heroes who have laid down their lives, killed by the brutal forces of Gaddafi" and called on the international community "to halt all support for the dictator with immediate effect."[370] as-Senussi said that the protesters would be "victorious in the end" and calls for international support to end the violence.[371] On 24 February, as-Senussi gave an interview to Al Jazeera where he called upon the international community to help remove Gaddafi from power and stop the ongoing "massacre".[372] He dismissed talk of a civil war saying "The Libyan people and the tribes have proven they are united". He later stated that international community needs "less talk and more action" to stop the violence.[373] He asked for a no-fly zone over Libya but does not support foreign ground troops.[374] On April 20, Mohammed spoke in front of the European Parliament calling for more support for Libya.[375] He also states that he will support any form of government that Libya will choose after Gaddafi including a constitutional monarchy.[376]A rival claimant to the throne, Idris bin Abdullah, announced in an interview with Adnkronos that he was ready to return to Libya and "assume leadership" once change had been initiated.[377] On 21 February, he made an appearance on Piers Morgan Tonight to discuss the uprising.[378]In March, it was reported Idris bin Abdullah had held meetings at the State Department and Congress in Washington with U.S. government officials. It was also reported attempts at contact had been initiated by French and Saudi officials.[379] On 3 March, it was reported that another member of the family, Prince Zouber al-Senussi, had fled Libya with his family and was seeking asylum in Totebo,Sweden.
This was the beginning before the French did anything. What does this tell us? Also can anyone discover any info as to what the forces of the Rebels are looking like with manpower?
As a result of the 2011 Libyan civil war, there are currently two entities claiming to be the official government of Libya.[4] The Tripoli-based government of Muammar Gaddafi refers to the Libyan state as the Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya.[5][6] It controls most of the western half of the country. The Benghazi-based Transitional National Council refers to the Libyan state as the Libyan Republic.[7][8] It is led by Mustafa Abdul Jalil and controls most of the eastern half of the country.
Spoken languagesArabic, Berber
Main article: National Transitional Council
The Libyan Republic is the territory governed by the self-proclaimed Transitional National Council during the 2011 Libyan civil war. On 5 March 2011 the council declared itself to be the "sole representative of all Libya". It is currently recognized by 13 countries, including France,[92][93][94] Qatar,[95] Italy,[96] and Germany.[97] It is also supported by several other Arab[98] and European countries.[99] The council formed an interim government on 23 March 2011 with Mahmoud Jibril as prime minister.[100]
Although the government supported Arab causes, including the Moroccan and Algerian independence movements, it took little active part in the Arab-Israeli dispute or the tumultuous inter-Arab politics of the 1950s and early 1960s. The Kingdom was noted for its close association with the West, while it steered a conservative course at home.[102]
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ca/Idris_I_%26_Richard_Nixon.jpg/220px-Idris_I_%26_Richard_Nixon.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Mutassim_Gadaffi_Hilary_Clinton.jpg/220px-Mutassim_Gadaffi_Hilary_Clinton.jpg
King Idris with U.S. vice-president Richard Nixon (March 1957). Libya sought cordial relations with the West.
U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton with Libyan National Security Adviser Moatessem-Billal al-Gaddafi in 2009
Still think the Berbers will ever allow the Arabs to take what is theirs.....we will end up fighting there until the end of time then. Even Qadhafi-less! Also what game was our politians playing?
Didn't stop the French and the game they are playing.....did it? Considering they were one of the causes of both uprisings in Algeria and Morocco. Not to mention keeping the French Foreign Legion there for easy strike purposes.
Look at the time line from Feb. 21st.....then go back to what we stated and were doing. Thats when Clinton had to do a 180 on her remarks about Libya. Due to Rice not knowing that the French had officially recognized the Rebels as the Ruling Government of Libya. Thats without Qadhafi being gone. Even though the UN and the World considered Qadhafi to be the ruling Government of Libya. But Rice definately knew about the Dynasty and who had come to Washington. Not to much was brought about that.
Pretty much in 51 was the ending of anything Italy had going in libya. But they had always relied on the French for backing. Of Course there is also that issue of partying with Qadhafi in the UK in those big mansions. Wherein the French seemed to enjoy the show and partake of it......
Anyone questioning when Dynasty-man came to the US? Anyone figure out how the French and the Sunni were able to Officially recognize the Rebels as the ruling Government of Libya?
Do people still believe this was over Qadhafi committing genocide on his own People?
Already this little adventure has cost us over 700 million dollars and by Sept it will be 1.1 Billion Dollars for involving us into another Country's Civil War. Not to mention we are just dropping bombs on Qadhafi. No one will be able to dislodge him without putting troops on the ground. What, hope we get lucky bombing and that he makes a mistake.
Ask yourself this.....if the Country is locked down. Rebels in East, Rebels in the Sw of the West,the Coalition has a No fly Zone in effect. The US is in the Med right there. Where is Qadhafi getting his mercenaries from and how are they getting into the country to fight for him? Why havent you heard anything about these mercenaries?
Everyone keeps saying Qadhafi, well Qadhafi comes from a clan to and there are others. All Berber. They will pick someone else to lead them. The Rebels if they win will be so week they will be ripe to topple. They will rise up as a whole Against the Sunni. Which then will force us to remain, and it will never end.
Conley
08-07-2011, 12:32 PM
Great posts...gonna take some time to read this thoroughly and will get back to ya.
Great posts...gonna take some time to read this thoroughly and will get back to ya.
Ok CL.....and lets me know if you find anything on how much manpower the Rebels have lost. I am looking as well plus the way the Western Medias propaganda has been in full force it will be like finding a needle in a haystack. ;)
Mister D
08-07-2011, 01:29 PM
The truth could be that there are no reliable estimates of rebel manpower. I'll need to read these at length.
The truth could be that there are no reliable estimates of rebel manpower. I'll need to read these at length.
Thanks D.....I will try and put up some maps too.
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/9883/246829902.jpg
This was back in Feb when Qadhafi called mercs in to help defend Tripoli.
http://pakobserver.net/detailnews.asp?id=78009
Islamabad—The United States, Britain and France have sent several hundred “defence advisors” to train and support the anti-Gadhafi forces in oil-rich Eastern Libya where “rebels armed groups” have apparently taken over. According to an exclusive report confirmed by a Libyan diplomat in the region “the three Western states have landed their “special forces troops in Cyrinacia and are now setting up their bases and training centres” to reinforce the rebel forces who are resisting pro-Qaddafi forces in several adjoining areas.
A Libyan official who requested not to be identified said that the U.S. and British military gurus were sent on February 23 and 24 night through American and French warships and small naval boats off Libyan ports of Benghazi and Tobruk. The Western forces are reportedly preparing to set-up training bases for local militias set-up by the rebel forces for an effective control of the oil-rich region and counter any push by pro- Qaddafi forces from Tripoli.
Other reports claim that efforts to “neutralize” the Libyan Air Force were also underway to limit Qaddafi’s rule in Tripoli if not fully uprooted from the country.
Meanwhile, three Indian Navy warships, are also being dispatched to be deployed in the rebel-held areas of Libya. According to reports the Indian Navy has already sent two warships plus one its largest amphibious vessel INS Jalashwa. According to defence experts “Jalshwa” is the largest ship of Indian Navy which was delivered by the U.S. four years ago. Jalashwa, formaly the USS Trenton, has the capability to embark, transport & land various elements of an amphibious force & its equipped with mechanised landing craft, Sea King helicopters & armed with raders, ship to air missiles & rapid firing guns.
Experts say that Indian ship Jalashwa has a Landing Platform Dock with a capability 1000 fully armed troops. The warship is also used for maritime surveillance, special operations, search & rescue and to undertake other tasks.
This was when the US stated back in the beginning that we were not going to put any troops on the ground in Libya. Did we lie?
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20110303/local/three-dutch-soldiers-captured-in-libya-as-rescue-fails.352774
Three Dutch soldiers were taken prisoner at the weekend by armed men during an operation to evacuate civilians from Libya, the Dutch defence ministry said today. "We confirm it," a navy official told AFP when asked about the capture of three marines reported by Dutch daily De Telegraaf.
The paper said the three marines were captured by armed men loyal to Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi while helping with the evacuation from Sirte in northern Libya of two unnamed civilians, one Dutch and another European, in a helicopter. The marines were attacked after the helicopter landed. The two civilians were handed over by the Libyans to the Dutch embassy and have since left Libya, according to De Telegraaf. "Intensive diplomatic discussions are underway for the freeing of the prisoners," according to the Dutch defence ministry quoted by ANP news agency.
...snip...
This was in March, when NATO said there were not Troops on the ground in Libya....
West
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/1689/westcoastmap.jpg
East
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/3663/eastcoastmap.jpg
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-08/libyan-rebels-appeal-to-un-for-protection-formal-recognition.html
Mar 8, 2011
Leaders of Libya’s rebellion have appealed to the United Nations for recognition and protection against forces loyal to Muammar Qaddafi. “We request from the international community to fulfill its obligations to protect the Libyan people from any further genocide and crimes against humanity without any direct military intervention on Libyan soil,” the Interim Transitional National Council said in a March 5 letter to the UN General Assembly. The council, which is also asking the Arab League and other international organizations for support, is based in the captured city of Benghazi.
The letter may form the basis of a challenge to the UN ambassador appointed by Qaddafi after his top two envoys to the world body broke with the regime last month. Qaddafi named Ali Abdussalam Treki, a loyalist who served as president of the General Assembly from June 2009 to June 2010. The interim council “derives its legitimacy from the city councils who run the liberated cities, and who had been formed by the revolution,” its letter to the UN says. “The council declares that it is the sole representative of all Libya” and is “waiting” for delegations from Tripoli, the capital still in Qaddafi’s control, to join it.
..snip...
Yet we see the Rebels had rose up before this and with who's support?
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/51805000/jpg/_51805056_libya_airstrikes_23.03_624.jpg
March 23.....
Conley
08-07-2011, 02:27 PM
Not only who supported the rebels but what prompted them to strike when they did? Did they know they would have the backing of the French government?
9:56AM: Libya’s fairly tight-lipped opposition national council has opened up, or at least one of its members has. US-educated Ali Tarhouni, the newly appointed finance minister for the council, spoke with reporters last night and revealed that the rebel army consists of only around 1,000 trained men. (He apparently didn’t mention how many untrained volunteers are involved in the fighting.) Until now, the opposition has kept military details under wraps. Tarhouni admitted shortcomings in the rebel’s pell-mell ascent to power in the east.
Tarhouni also said the rebels don’t have a cash crisis, despite being cut off from Tripoli. Countries have agreed to give the rebels credit, including the United Kingdom, which will give $1.1 billion, he claimed.
http://feb17.info/
http://feb17.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Screen-shot-2011-03-25-at-11.59.20-PM.png
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2011/mar/08/libya-nato-no-fly-zone-interactive-map
March 30th.....
http://feb17.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Screen-shot-2011-03-23-at-1.59.56-AM.png
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/03/201132814450241767.html
Qatar has recognised Libya's rebel council as the legitimate representatives of the Libyan people, a day after the group announced an oil contract with the Gulf state. The move on Monday makes Qatar only the second country to formally recognise the Libyan rebel council, but has been backed by the Gulf Co-operation Council (GCC). A statement from Abdulrahman al-Attiyah, the outgoing GCC secretary general, said Qatar's "recognition of the transitional council as the only legitimate representative of the Libyan people comes in line with the decisions of the GCC". "The Libyan system has lost its legitimacy," said al-Attiyahi.
...snip...
The Sunni.....who set up the bank for the Rebels.
Conley
08-07-2011, 02:54 PM
1,000 trained men...That's it?!
1,000 trained men...That's it?!
Yep and not counting volunteers.....
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2011/03/201132994454514581.html
Troops loyal to Muammar Gaddafi, the Libyan leader, have shelled pro-democracy forces heading west on the main coastal highway, pushing them out of Bin Jawad, a small town around 150km east of Sirte, Gaddafi's hometown.
Al Jazeera's Hoda-Abdel Hamid, on the road leading east from Ras Lanuf, reported that explosions had also occured in that town on Tuesday, which opposition fighters had earlier retreated to from Bin Jawad. "So certainly what we can say at this stage is that Bin Jawad is not any more in the hands of the rebels, actually the Gaddafi forces now are managing to pound Ras Lanuf and are getting closer and closer to them, pushing the opposition fighters eastwards more and more," she said. "I think this is an exact repeat of what happened about three weeks ago."
Pro-Gaddafi forces were mostly using mortars and artillery, as opposed to the tanks and airstrikes of early advances, she said "The Gaddafi guys hit us with Grads [rockets] and they came round our flanks," Ashraf Mohammed, a 28-year-old fighter wearing a bandolier of bullets, told a reporter from the Reuters news agency at the front.
..snip..
Qadhafi's Tribal home grounds.....also the Rebels came under attack by Berbers not loyal to Qadhafi.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2075314,00.html
In an open lot on the Dhubat al-Saff military base, a group of Libyan rebel recruits gathers around an instructor demonstrating how to fire a Russian-made ZU-23-2 quad-barrel antiaircraft gun. At the far edge of the same lot, another trainer shows his students how to calibrate a mortar. But while the camp's instructors explain the technical specifications of their assorted weapons, Jerry Erwin of Vancouver, Wash., is teaching the recruits how to survive on the battlefield. "One, two, three, down!" the beefy soldier shouts, prompting his students to drop on their elbows. As they do, he slowly moves between them, demonstrating how to fall while still holding their rifles in a shooting position.
The selling of military expertise by foreign privateers, or mercenaries, is known as the world's second oldest profession. But Erwin insists motives are more altruistic and that he is not being paid. He went to Libya in early May, he says, because he was "impressed with the Libyans' struggle against a dictator." Having served with the 101st Airborne in the 1980s, Erwin has spent the past 25 years as an Army Reserve intelligence officer specializing in counterintelligence and strategic analysis.
Throughout the eastern city of Benghazi, a dozen such training camps have sprung up since the rebellion against Muammar Gaddafi began on Feb. 17 and was forced to turn to arms by the regime's slaughter of unarmed protesters. The camps were designed to give recruits a four-week crash course in basic combat skills and weapons training. But because the instructors at Dhubat al-Saff, retired officers who served in the Libyan army, spend most of the six hours of daily training focusing on weapons familiarization, Erwin is trying to teach recruits survival techniques and unit coordination. "They have a determination that reminds me of Rocky Balboa," says the cigar-chomping 46-year-old American. "But they are missing some of the basic methods that all soldiers need."
The recruits are impressed with Erwin's teaching techniques and are eager to benefit from his military experience. "Jerry explains to us things our trainers neglect. Before he came, we spent most of our time taking apart Kalashnikovs," says Mahmud al-Titlawi.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/31/libya-sas-veterans-misrata-rebels?INTCMP=SRCH
Former SAS soldiers and other western employees of private security companies are helping Nato identify targets in the Libyan port city of Misrata, the scene of heavy fighting between Muammar Gaddafi’s forces and rebels, well-placed sources have told the Guardian. Special forces veterans are passing details of the locations and movements of Gaddafi’s forces to the Naples headquarters of Lieutenant General Charles Bouchard, Canadian commander of Nato forces, the sources said. The targets are then verified by spy planes and US Predator drones. “One piece of human intelligence is not enough,” a source said.
The former soldiers are there with the blessing of Britain, France and other Nato countries, which have supplied them with communications equipment. They are likely to be providing information for the pilots of British and French attack helicopters, who are expected to start firing at targets in and around Misrata this week. Four Apache helicopters are on board HMS Ocean, which is approaching Libyan waters. Twelve French Tiger helicopters are on board the amphibious assault ship Tonnerre, which is understood to be already within striking distance of the Libyan coast. The French defence minister, Gerard Longuet, has refused to say exactly when they would be deployed, but added: “In any case, very rapidly.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/30/western-troops-on-ground-libya
Al-Jazeera footage captures 'western troops on the ground' in Libya
Current sitrap
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y298/Crusty_Ass/nafusa12j.jpg
Central
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y298/Crusty_Ass/trip12j.jpg
East
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y298/Crusty_Ass/eastfr12j.jpg
CBS News How Libyan Army Succeeding Despite NATO Air Strikes Helping Rebels Advance In Libya (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM0hC74xLK8#ws)
Dispatch: Libya War Update (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUAbWRKe6jg#ws)
Conley
08-07-2011, 04:20 PM
is that a ZU-23-2 ??
NATO Preparing Ground War in Libya (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0hu2H5VhxI#ws)
June 19th this year.....NATO and the US preparing to put troops on the ground. On this video is a report from the Asian Times and from another media Source. Also Footage from CNN.
Who is decieving who?
Mister D
08-07-2011, 04:41 PM
MMC, those maps are very helpful but the legends are cut off. Or is it just my screen?
BTW, I'm having some network issues but I'm trying to participate some tonight.
Conley
08-07-2011, 04:44 PM
MMC, those maps are very helpful but the legends are cut off. Or is it just my screen?
BTW, I'm having some network issues but I'm trying to participate some tonight.
Hmm. I can see the legends no problem.
Mister D
08-07-2011, 04:46 PM
MMC, those maps are very helpful but the legends are cut off. Or is it just my screen?
BTW, I'm having some network issues but I'm trying to participate some tonight.
Hmm. I can see the legends no problem.
I was thinking that it was probably on my end. Oh well. Just give me the link, MMC.
Mister D
08-07-2011, 04:47 PM
Current sitrap
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y298/Crusty_Ass/nafusa12j.jpg
Central
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y298/Crusty_Ass/trip12j.jpg
East
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y298/Crusty_Ass/eastfr12j.jpg
CBS News How Libyan Army Succeeding Despite NATO Air Strikes Helping Rebels Advance In Libya (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM0hC74xLK8#ws)
I have them. Never mind.
Mister D
08-07-2011, 04:51 PM
Good maps are a great plus. It's difficult to really get a feel for a military situation without them. So now I see why MMC refers to this as a Berber/Arab conflict. You can see it geographically. The rebel areas are in the south away from "civilization" so to speak which has always been concentrated on the coast in this region.
Conley
08-07-2011, 04:54 PM
This is really embarrassing but every time you guys mention the Berbers I think of this little guy:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/Justin_Bieber.jpg
:-\
Did you get them D? I just started copied them from wherever I can get them I didnt check to see.
With all the links that have been provided and what we had up on other threads should bring all of this info together so that we can analyze the sitaution with what would bring us up to-date. For we know from July that the Rebels have been set back in the West and the East. Plus they killed 3 of their own military leaders. Then killed another of Qadhafi's kids.
Reuters reported twice when they caught the rebels lying. So to has the Associated Press especially when it came to taking towns. At the beginning of this Thread the Former Dynasty-man lied when he said all of Libya was untied against Qadhafi. If you watched the videos listen to what they say about the Pro-Qadhafi supporters. or the difficutly of trying to gauge any assesment when it comes to the tribal laws of the Berbers.
Moreover I thought we could all throw up about Libya in the thread as we have all the major factors here in play. Especially since we do not have a Foreign Policy Section and or World Poltics. Either that or we should also think about a thread for Wars and Conflicts. Otherwise the pub will be filled with so much shit. Same thing with Latest Happenings. All due to domestic issues let alone foreign. What do you guys think?
BTW D thanks....you now are reading me correctly on this issue for sure. Especially with the Berber/Arab-Specifically Sunni thing
Conley
08-07-2011, 05:30 PM
This is a great thread. I, for one, like keeping it all here and having it put together.
Mister D
08-07-2011, 06:09 PM
It is a good thread but I agree with MMC. Once the place expands we should make the general topics more specific. Wow that's kind an oxymoron... :D What I mean is that they are far too general.
MMC, what elements in Egypt are supporting the rebels? I remember you saying that a while back and you can see it on the maps. They are all Sunnis. ???
Conley
08-07-2011, 06:26 PM
It is a good thread but I agree with MMC. Once the place expands we should make the general topics more specific. Wow that's kind an oxymoron... :D What I mean is that they are far too general.
MMC, what elements in Egypt are supporting the rebels? I remember you saying that a while back and you can see it on the maps. They are all Sunnis. ???
Oh yeah, I agree with both of you on that. I think we only have seven topics total in the Democrats section. :-\
It is a good thread but I agree with MMC. Once the place expands we should make the general topics more specific. Wow that's kind an oxymoron... :D What I mean is that they are far too general.
MMC, what elements in Egypt are supporting the rebels? I remember you saying that a while back and you can see it on the maps. They are all Sunnis. ???
The Libyans in the East which were with the former Dynasty.....also MB from Egypt, they reported a Mujah was running a group of them. Like I stated all around the upper East it is intermingled populations. Some Berbers in the West that oppose Qadhafi. But not to many.
Then theres the Megrehbev Tribe Or however you spell it. They are Islamic Extremists and will oppose Qadhafi and the Sunni backed Libyan Rebels.
Mister D
08-07-2011, 07:37 PM
It is a good thread but I agree with MMC. Once the place expands we should make the general topics more specific. Wow that's kind an oxymoron... :D What I mean is that they are far too general.
MMC, what elements in Egypt are supporting the rebels? I remember you saying that a while back and you can see it on the maps. They are all Sunnis. ???
The Libyans in the East which were with the former Dynasty.....also MB from Egypt, they reported a Mujah was running a group of them. Like I stated all around the upper East it is intermingled populations. Some Berbers in the West that oppose Qadhafi. But not to many.
Then theres the Megrehbev Tribe Or however you spell it. They are Islamic Extremists and will oppose Qadhafi and the Sunni backed Libyan Rebels.
Ah so OQ has been a secularist of sorts? I can't imagine why else the MB would hate him. That makes sense. I'm surprised, however, that there are not more armed militants coming from abroad.
Mister D
08-07-2011, 07:43 PM
One thing that does appear to be clear is that our government knows little about what's going on there and less about why it matters to us.
Conley
08-07-2011, 08:00 PM
One thing that does appear to be clear is that our government knows little about what's going on there and less about why it matters to us.
Well said.
If the people who blasted Bush for getting involved in Iraq don't hold Obama accountable for this, then I suppose to paraphrase some famous philosopher who's name I could Google, the democracy gets the leader they deserve. >:(
Mister D
08-07-2011, 08:03 PM
One thing that does appear to be clear is that our government knows little about what's going on there and less about why it matters to us.
Well said.
If the people who blasted Bush for getting involved in Iraq don't hold Obama accountable for this, then I suppose to paraphrase some famous philosopher who's name I could Google, the democracy gets the leader they deserve. >:(
Exactly. I've seen some people do that but they are few and far in between. Most people seem to be partisan and just make excuses for BO. ::)
I know that quote but I can't remember who said it either.
Conley
08-07-2011, 08:18 PM
Copied and pasted, not my words:
"The statement is often quoted as "In a democracy, people get the government they deserve," and often attributed to Alexis de Toqueville ... but it's hard to verify where he said it, and even whether he really did.
However, there is a similar and well-documented quotation by Joseph de Maistre: "Every country has the government it deserves (Toute nation a le gouvernement qu’elle mérite") One of the sources below gives its origin as de Maistre's
Lettres et Opuscules Inédits vol. 1, letter 53, written on 15 August 1811 and published in 1851.
Everybody likes to quote de Toqueville, & not that many ever heard of de Maistre. I suspect de Maistre is the real origin. Of course, it's possible de Toqueville said it, in quoting or paraphrasing de Maistre.
But I doubt that de Toqueville said it, simply because it doesn't sound like him. The tone of the remark is sarcastic or cynical, and de Toqueville's writings weren't like that. It wasn't his style."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexis_de_Tocqueville
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081021103757AAbfmpx
Conley
08-07-2011, 08:21 PM
One thing that does appear to be clear is that our government knows little about what's going on there and less about why it matters to us.
Well said.
If the people who blasted Bush for getting involved in Iraq don't hold Obama accountable for this, then I suppose to paraphrase some famous philosopher who's name I could Google, the democracy gets the leader they deserve. >:(
Exactly. I've seen some people do that but they are few and far in between. Most people seem to be partisan and just make excuses for BO. ::)
I know that quote but I can't remember who said it either.
There was a great Opinion piece in the New York Times today tearing Obama a new one. His base is gone. I'll start a new thread...
Mister D
08-08-2011, 07:37 AM
One thing that does appear to be clear is that our government knows little about what's going on there and less about why it matters to us.
Well said.
If the people who blasted Bush for getting involved in Iraq don't hold Obama accountable for this, then I suppose to paraphrase some famous philosopher who's name I could Google, the democracy gets the leader they deserve. >:(
Exactly. I've seen some people do that but they are few and far in between. Most people seem to be partisan and just make excuses for BO. ::)
I know that quote but I can't remember who said it either.
There was a great Opinion piece in the New York Times today tearing Obama a new one. His base is gone. I'll start a new thread...
.
You'd hope that the Hope and Change people would abandon this mess after a while. No pun intended.
Yeah all keep talking about Qadhafi is a bad man.....yet this Administrations was working with Qadhafi at the end of last year ans was going to send Aid to him in April of this year. You saw the pic of Clinton with Qadhafi's one son back in 2009.
1000 experienced people to use sophisticated equipment minus the volunteers? Plus most of the time we keep hearing how the Rebels are getting killed. Once in a while about some of Qadhafi's people. Plus now the Rebels killed Younis. That was one of the Libyans that defected from Qadhafi.
Italy pulls out their aircraft carrier and Norway pulled out of the NATO Coalition Forces. Obama then sends the Largest Carrier in the Fleet. This ship hold over 3000 Marines. Special Forces Units. About 5000 Rangers. Copters Attack and transport. It's sitting there in the MED. Ready to go.
Mister D
08-08-2011, 08:12 AM
Yeah all keep talking about Qadhafi is a bad man.....yet this Administrations was working with Qadhafi at the end of last year ans was going to send Aid to him in April of this year. You saw the pic of Clinton with Qadhafi's one son back in 2009.
1000 experienced people to use sophisticated equipment minus the volunteers? Plus most of the time we keep hearing how the Rebels are getting killed. Once in a while about some of Qadhafi's people. Plus now the Rebels killed Younis. That was one of the Libyans that defected from Qadhafi.
Italy pulls out their aircraft carrier and Norway pulled out of the NATO Coalition Forces. Obama then sends the Largest Carrier in the Fleet. This ship hold over 3000 Marines. Special Forces Units. About 5000 Rangers. Copters Attack and transport. It's sitting there in the MED. Ready to go.
No surprises here. They were working with Mubarak before urging him to resign. ::)
Yeah all keep talking about Qadhafi is a bad man.....yet this Administrations was working with Qadhafi at the end of last year ans was going to send Aid to him in April of this year. You saw the pic of Clinton with Qadhafi's one son back in 2009.
1000 experienced people to use sophisticated equipment minus the volunteers? Plus most of the time we keep hearing how the Rebels are getting killed. Once in a while about some of Qadhafi's people. Plus now the Rebels killed Younis. That was one of the Libyans that defected from Qadhafi.
Italy pulls out their aircraft carrier and Norway pulled out of the NATO Coalition Forces. Obama then sends the Largest Carrier in the Fleet. This ship hold over 3000 Marines. Special Forces Units. About 5000 Rangers. Copters Attack and transport. It's sitting there in the MED. Ready to go.
No surprises here. They were working with Mubarak before urging him to resign. ::)
I dont see how people cannot view the overall of the ME and see that the Sunni are oppressing the Shia and killing them. That they are attempting to set-up proxy governments. They are involved into many countries politcal Campaigns and all the While they have been leading the Charge to tank the US Dollar as the Worlds Reserve Currency.
Mister D
08-08-2011, 08:55 AM
Yeah all keep talking about Qadhafi is a bad man.....yet this Administrations was working with Qadhafi at the end of last year ans was going to send Aid to him in April of this year. You saw the pic of Clinton with Qadhafi's one son back in 2009.
1000 experienced people to use sophisticated equipment minus the volunteers? Plus most of the time we keep hearing how the Rebels are getting killed. Once in a while about some of Qadhafi's people. Plus now the Rebels killed Younis. That was one of the Libyans that defected from Qadhafi.
Italy pulls out their aircraft carrier and Norway pulled out of the NATO Coalition Forces. Obama then sends the Largest Carrier in the Fleet. This ship hold over 3000 Marines. Special Forces Units. About 5000 Rangers. Copters Attack and transport. It's sitting there in the MED. Ready to go.
No surprises here. They were working with Mubarak before urging him to resign. ::)
I dont see how people cannot view the overall of the ME and see that the Sunni are oppressing the Shia and killing them. That they are attempting to set-up proxy governments. They are involved into many countries politcal Campaigns and all the While they have been leading the Charge to tank the US Dollar as the Worlds Reserve Currency.
I've come to hate neocon foreign policy but I hate BO's even more. At least there was a more consistent logic to Bush's international vision.
Yeah all keep talking about Qadhafi is a bad man.....yet this Administrations was working with Qadhafi at the end of last year ans was going to send Aid to him in April of this year. You saw the pic of Clinton with Qadhafi's one son back in 2009.
1000 experienced people to use sophisticated equipment minus the volunteers? Plus most of the time we keep hearing how the Rebels are getting killed. Once in a while about some of Qadhafi's people. Plus now the Rebels killed Younis. That was one of the Libyans that defected from Qadhafi.
Italy pulls out their aircraft carrier and Norway pulled out of the NATO Coalition Forces. Obama then sends the Largest Carrier in the Fleet. This ship hold over 3000 Marines. Special Forces Units. About 5000 Rangers. Copters Attack and transport. It's sitting there in the MED. Ready to go.
No surprises here. They were working with Mubarak before urging him to resign. ::)
I dont see how people cannot view the overall of the ME and see that the Sunni are oppressing the Shia and killing them. That they are attempting to set-up proxy governments. They are involved into many countries politcal Campaigns and all the While they have been leading the Charge to tank the US Dollar as the Worlds Reserve Currency.
I've come to hate neocon foreign policy but I hate BO's even more. At least there was a more consistent logic to Bush's international vision.
Yeah I said before.....the only difference between Neo-Cons and Neo-Libs is who is in charge.Both are willing to give up Sovereignty for that global thing.
Some think we are so easy to dupe. That would be the Saudi.
Whats this I hear about oil under the North Sea? More than what the M.E. has? Shouldn't this tell the Sunni they no longer can hold the World as ransom.
Mister D
08-08-2011, 09:56 AM
Yeah all keep talking about Qadhafi is a bad man.....yet this Administrations was working with Qadhafi at the end of last year ans was going to send Aid to him in April of this year. You saw the pic of Clinton with Qadhafi's one son back in 2009.
1000 experienced people to use sophisticated equipment minus the volunteers? Plus most of the time we keep hearing how the Rebels are getting killed. Once in a while about some of Qadhafi's people. Plus now the Rebels killed Younis. That was one of the Libyans that defected from Qadhafi.
Italy pulls out their aircraft carrier and Norway pulled out of the NATO Coalition Forces. Obama then sends the Largest Carrier in the Fleet. This ship hold over 3000 Marines. Special Forces Units. About 5000 Rangers. Copters Attack and transport. It's sitting there in the MED. Ready to go.
No surprises here. They were working with Mubarak before urging him to resign. ::)
I dont see how people cannot view the overall of the ME and see that the Sunni are oppressing the Shia and killing them. That they are attempting to set-up proxy governments. They are involved into many countries politcal Campaigns and all the While they have been leading the Charge to tank the US Dollar as the Worlds Reserve Currency.
I've come to hate neocon foreign policy but I hate BO's even more. At least there was a more consistent logic to Bush's international vision.
Yeah I said before.....the only difference between Neo-Cons and Neo-Libs is who is in charge.Both are willing to give up Sovereignty for that global thing.
Some think we are so easy to dupe. That would be the Saudi.
Whats this I hear about oil under the North Sea? More than what the M.E. has? Shouldn't this tell the Sunni they no longer can hold the World as ransom.
Really? That would be great if it's true.
Yeah all keep talking about Qadhafi is a bad man.....yet this Administrations was working with Qadhafi at the end of last year ans was going to send Aid to him in April of this year. You saw the pic of Clinton with Qadhafi's one son back in 2009.
1000 experienced people to use sophisticated equipment minus the volunteers? Plus most of the time we keep hearing how the Rebels are getting killed. Once in a while about some of Qadhafi's people. Plus now the Rebels killed Younis. That was one of the Libyans that defected from Qadhafi.
Italy pulls out their aircraft carrier and Norway pulled out of the NATO Coalition Forces. Obama then sends the Largest Carrier in the Fleet. This ship hold over 3000 Marines. Special Forces Units. About 5000 Rangers. Copters Attack and transport. It's sitting there in the MED. Ready to go.
No surprises here. They were working with Mubarak before urging him to resign. ::)
I dont see how people cannot view the overall of the ME and see that the Sunni are oppressing the Shia and killing them. That they are attempting to set-up proxy governments. They are involved into many countries politcal Campaigns and all the While they have been leading the Charge to tank the US Dollar as the Worlds Reserve Currency.
I've come to hate neocon foreign policy but I hate BO's even more. At least there was a more consistent logic to Bush's international vision.
Yeah I said before.....the only difference between Neo-Cons and Neo-Libs is who is in charge.Both are willing to give up Sovereignty for that global thing.
Some think we are so easy to dupe. That would be the Saudi.
Whats this I hear about oil under the North Sea? More than what the M.E. has? Shouldn't this tell the Sunni they no longer can hold the World as ransom.
Really? That would be great if it's true.
Yeah I heard BP and Rosneft were going to go for the permits for drilling under the ice.....which they had some big deal about all the ownes Swapping shares. That it was in arbitration.
http://news.yahoo.com/libya-rebels-casualties-fight-brega-004216214.html
Reuters – 1 hr 39 mins ago.....
Rebel fighters pushed government troops back about 7 km from their previous positions, fixing a front line about 5 km north of the village of Bir Shuaib, near a diaper factory. They set up a checkpoint on the road and about 150 fighters gathered, some firing weapons in the air to celebrate their advance.
Judging by impact craters, wrecked buildings and burned-out tanks, NATO warplanes have bombed government military targets on the route of the rebel advance over the past week, providing close air support.
Zawiyah is the home town of many of the rebels battling on the western front. It has staged two uprisings against Gaddafi since March but remains in government hands along with its refinery and harbor on the Mediterranean coast. Rebels hope to capture Zawiyah and cut off Gaddafi's stronghold, the capital Tripoli, from access to the outside world along the coast road.
Gaddafi's Deputy Foreign Minister Khaled Kaim on Friday said the rebels could not take Zawiyah and the western coastal highway. "In their dreams," he said. A captured Libyan intelligence officer told Reuters the army had reinforced its garrison in the town and was ready for a fight.
On Libya's most easterly front, at least 21 rebels and government soldiers were killed in fighting for the oil terminal of Brega in the past two days, hospital workers said.
A volunteer at the hospital in Ajdabiyah, where fighters wounded in Brega are taken, said 15 rebel fighters had been killed and about 50 wounded. He said the bodies of six government soldiers were brought in on Friday.
In fighting around a second eastern front in Misrata, much closer to Tripoli, at least six rebels were killed in the past 24 hours, rebel sources said.
The rebels have seized large swathes of the North African state, but are divided and fighting on three fronts.
Rebels in the Western Mountains can muster a few thousand men if their separate units join forces.
On the diplomatic front, a Tunisian government official said on Friday there had been contacts last week between U.S. envoys and Gaddafi's representatives on Tunisian soil. The official, who declined to be named, gave no further details.....snip~
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/world/11/misrata_libya_panel_map/img/misrata_clickable976map2104.jpg
As you can see the Rebels are divided on 3 fronts.....they continue to take more casualties than Qadhafi's Troops. They have only so many experienced people at using equipments. Rebles in the Western mountain can only summon up about a 1000 troops and thats combined. Qadhafi is not even that concerned about them as they cannot progress or even move forward. They are out-numbered at least 7-1, I believe. Also Qadhafi does have the benefit of other Berbers attacking the Rebels. Not to mention his own troops can be attacked by those loyal to the Senussi Dynsty. Thoughts?
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/51747000/jpg/_51747815_all_loc_libya_all_map_976.jpg
Here is what has taken place the last two nights.....
Conley
08-15-2011, 09:51 AM
http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/373452424.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1313420863&Signature=BO8zdLFJkiQyz1XWPMe1hf9Jfnw%3D
Mister D
08-15-2011, 10:14 AM
How do we know they are taking more casualties than government troops?
A volunteer at the hospital in Ajdabiyah, where fighters wounded in Brega are taken, said 15 rebel fighters had been killed and about 50 wounded. He said the bodies of six government soldiers were brought in on Friday.
That's meaningless.
Mister D
08-15-2011, 10:16 AM
I'd imagine that those airstrikes are not only taking a toll on government forces but also restricting their movements.
I'd imagine that those airstrikes are not only taking a toll on government forces but also restricting their movements.
Yeah.....now things will get interesting as the Rebel attempt to box Qadhafi in.....NATO has led he way with each advance. But now NATO planes will come under more attack. Plus if the Rebels cannot hold.....and still lose ground In the East of Libya, then that will shake them up even more.
Mister D
08-15-2011, 11:51 AM
I'd imagine that those airstrikes are not only taking a toll on government forces but also restricting their movements.
Yeah.....now things will get interesting as the Rebel attempt to box Qadhafi in.....NATO has led he way with each advance. But now NATO planes will come under more attack. Plus if the Rebels cannot hold.....and still lose ground In the East of Libya, then that will shake them up even more.
Sounds like you are rooting for the government! ;D ;)
I'd imagine that those airstrikes are not only taking a toll on government forces but also restricting their movements.
Yeah.....now things will get interesting as the Rebel attempt to box Qadhafi in.....NATO has led he way with each advance. But now NATO planes will come under more attack. Plus if the Rebels cannot hold.....and still lose ground In the East of Libya, then that will shake them up even more.
Sounds like you are rooting for the government! ;D ;)
Nah.....just telling it like it is brutha. Although in the sense of holding out against the Sunni and French and being the under-dog. I would at least like to see Qadhafi do some sort of damage to the EU and those Sunni plans.
Mister D
08-15-2011, 12:39 PM
I'd imagine that those airstrikes are not only taking a toll on government forces but also restricting their movements.
Yeah.....now things will get interesting as the Rebel attempt to box Qadhafi in.....NATO has led he way with each advance. But now NATO planes will come under more attack. Plus if the Rebels cannot hold.....and still lose ground In the East of Libya, then that will shake them up even more.
Sounds like you are rooting for the government! ;D ;)
Nah.....just telling it like it is brutha. Although in the sense of holding out against the Sunni and French and being the under-dog. I would at least like to see Qadhafi do some sort of damage to the EU and those Sunni plans.
The collapse of Qadhafi's regime would be a good thing. I don't see any virtue in their situation whatsoever. That doesn't measn I support what's goin gon in Lybia. Only that I refuse to support a man like Qadhafi.
I'd imagine that those airstrikes are not only taking a toll on government forces but also restricting their movements.
Yeah.....now things will get interesting as the Rebel attempt to box Qadhafi in.....NATO has led he way with each advance. But now NATO planes will come under more attack. Plus if the Rebels cannot hold.....and still lose ground In the East of Libya, then that will shake them up even more.
Sounds like you are rooting for the government! ;D ;)
Nah.....just telling it like it is brutha. Although in the sense of holding out against the Sunni and French and being the under-dog. I would at least like to see Qadhafi do some sort of damage to the EU and those Sunni plans.
The collapse of Qadhafi's regime would be a good thing. I don't see any virtue in their situation whatsoever. That doesn't measn I support what's goin gon in Lybia. Only that I refuse to support a man like Qadhafi.
Yeah there really cannot be any support for what he stands for.....he got his power the same way with the Senussi Berbers. Yet he is the known evil.....IMO the lesser evil if he was left in place. Now there will be no telling after this civil war play out.
How many civil wars do you know, that are over in 2-3 yrs???
Mister D
08-15-2011, 12:51 PM
I'd imagine that those airstrikes are not only taking a toll on government forces but also restricting their movements.
Yeah.....now things will get interesting as the Rebel attempt to box Qadhafi in.....NATO has led he way with each advance. But now NATO planes will come under more attack. Plus if the Rebels cannot hold.....and still lose ground In the East of Libya, then that will shake them up even more.
Sounds like you are rooting for the government! ;D ;)
Nah.....just telling it like it is brutha. Although in the sense of holding out against the Sunni and French and being the under-dog. I would at least like to see Qadhafi do some sort of damage to the EU and those Sunni plans.
The collapse of Qadhafi's regime would be a good thing. I don't see any virtue in their situation whatsoever. That doesn't measn I support what's goin gon in Lybia. Only that I refuse to support a man like Qadhafi.
Yeah there really cannot be any support for what he stands for.....he got his power the same way with the Senussi Berbers. Yet he is the known evil.....IMO the lesser evil if he was left in place. Now there will be no telling after this civil war play out.
How many civil wars do you know, that are over in 2-3 yrs???
Good point about being the known evil. Granted, we shouldn't be backing anyone but we also shouldn't be urging anyone to abdicate.
Conley
08-15-2011, 05:33 PM
Not sure if this source is legit, but dang...
"Between March 31 and June 30, the US carried out over 3400 sorties and 132 of those by the Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps dropped ordinance, or more than twice a day."
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2011/06/defense-africom-air-force-navy-flying-libya-missions-063011/
Conley
08-15-2011, 05:34 PM
Limited engagement my azz... >:(
Conley
08-15-2011, 05:35 PM
The Obama administration has said that the War Powers Resolution does not apply to the Libya operation because the U.S. role is limited.
The White House declined to comment on how 801 strike sorties constitutes “limited” involvement, but Harold Koh, a State Department legal adviser, said in testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Tuesday that “when U.S forces engage in a limited military mission, that involves limited exposure for U.S. troops, and limited risk of serious escalation, and employs limited military means, we are not in the kind of hostilities of the kind envisioned by the War Powers Resolution.”
He said there have been “no active exchanges of fire with hostile forces” despite AFRICOM’s statement that weapons had been dropped during 132 sorties.
Many in Congress on both sides of the aisle vehemently disagree with the White House’s contention.
http://feb17.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/373452424.jpg
Here how things are looking after this weekend.....
Nice CL......good find. You are right.....limited, NOT!
Conley
08-16-2011, 09:06 AM
Thanks MMC.
Is this an impeachable offense by Obama? Seems some say the War Powers Act is unconstitutional, but it has to be assumed constitutional until the SC says it is not, right? And since no one has challenged the WPA in court seems to me it should be assumed valid. Not to mention that Obama and his administration have publicly discussed it and their only defense is that they claim they are not in violation of it (thus giving it legitimacy).
That Koh guy is full of shit.....we have seen pics of Qadhafi'f forces firing anti air on NATO planes.
Mister D
08-16-2011, 01:55 PM
BENGHAZI, Libya (Reuters) - Rebels fighting to topple Muammar Gaddafi scorned reports of secret talks with the Libyan leader on Monday as their forces fought to secure gains and the United States said Gaddafi's days were numbered.
After 41 years of supreme power in his oil-rich desert state 69-year-old Gaddafi was isolated in the capital Tripoli, with reinvigorated rebel forces closing in from the West and South.
http://news.yahoo.com/rebels-tripoli-encircled-u-says-scud-fired-014925794.html
BENGHAZI, Libya (Reuters) - Rebels fighting to topple Muammar Gaddafi scorned reports of secret talks with the Libyan leader on Monday as their forces fought to secure gains and the United States said Gaddafi's days were numbered.
After 41 years of supreme power in his oil-rich desert state 69-year-old Gaddafi was isolated in the capital Tripoli, with reinvigorated rebel forces closing in from the West and South.
http://news.yahoo.com/rebels-tripoli-encircled-u-says-scud-fired-014925794.html
Now we shall see what the Desert Rat does when cornered..... lmao what the Rebels don't think we have been talking to Qadhafi this whole time? But they are ready to be a ruling government?!!!
http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/20110820_MAD001.jpg
http://www.economist.com/node/21526358?fsrc=rss
Looks Like they have surrounded Qadhafi.....
Mister D
08-20-2011, 09:32 AM
http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/20110820_MAD001.jpg
http://www.economist.com/node/21526358?fsrc=rss
Looks Like they have surrounded Qadhafi.....
With NATO support for the rebels I didn't think the government could hold out. Complete and uncontested control of the air is a big factor.
Nice cartoon. ;D
http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/20110820_MAD001.jpg
http://www.economist.com/node/21526358?fsrc=rss
Looks Like they have surrounded Qadhafi.....
With NATO support for the rebels I didn't think the government could hold out. Complete and uncontested control of the air is a big factor.
Nice cartoon. ;D
Yeah I got it from Tedminator.....told him I had a thread running elsewheres on it. Told him to go ahead and use anything of mine to as I had some other maps up.
Now they are talking about Qadhafi's end game. Looks like he is getting his family out. Qadhafi himself they think will stay on and fight either way. Until they kill him. As he said he will go out as a martyr for his people. The US and other are now trying to say they are worried what he will do to the civilian population.
Mister D
08-20-2011, 09:46 AM
http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/20110820_MAD001.jpg
http://www.economist.com/node/21526358?fsrc=rss
Looks Like they have surrounded Qadhafi.....
With NATO support for the rebels I didn't think the government could hold out. Complete and uncontested control of the air is a big factor.
Nice cartoon. ;D
Yeah I got it from Tedminator.....told him I had a thread running elsewheres on it. Told him to go ahead and use anything of mine to as I had some other maps up.
Now they are talking about Qadhafi's end game. Looks like he is getting his family out. Qadhafi himself they think will stay on and fight either way. Until they kill him. As he said he will go out as a martyr for his people. The US and other are now trying to say they are worried what he will do to the civilian population.
..
The civilian population of Tripoli? Yeah, if it turns into a siege it could be ugly...
This morning I have heard one of Qadhafi's Prime Ministers defected.....or pulled his support from Qadhafi.
Mister D
08-20-2011, 10:11 AM
This morning I have heard one of Qadhafi's Prime Ministers defected.....or pulled his support from Qadhafi.
That last article I posted on this thread says something about possible defections. You know that's the end. It's hilarious how BO's supporters think attacking Libya was a great idea. ::) What partisan BS.
This morning I have heard one of Qadhafi's Prime Ministers defected.....or pulled his support from Qadhafi.
That last article I posted on this thread says something about possible defections. You know that's the end. It's hilarious how BO's supporters think attacking Libya was a great idea. ::) What partisan BS.
Yeah that TED is one of them.....although he is a Former Navy Seal and cares about the Soveriegnty of the Country. Otherwise I was on him about being a Neo-Con. >:D
He is all gung-ho with the Wars and Conflicts with what we are doing overseas. :-\
Mister D
08-20-2011, 12:25 PM
This morning I have heard one of Qadhafi's Prime Ministers defected.....or pulled his support from Qadhafi.
That last article I posted on this thread says something about possible defections. You know that's the end. It's hilarious how BO's supporters think attacking Libya was a great idea. ::) What partisan BS.
Yeah that TED is one of them.....although he is a Former Navy Seal and cares about the Soveriegnty of the Country. Otherwise I was on him about being a Neo-Con. >:D
He is all gung-ho with the Wars and Conflicts with what we are doing overseas. :-\
I thin I remember that. He came on as I was leaving. It amazes me how people go through life with that level of cognitive dissonance.
http://feb17.info/news/libya-tnc-pledges-to-relinquish-power/
The head of Libya’s Transitional National Council (TNC) has vowed to hand over power to an elected body within eight months of the downfall of the country’s ruler Muammar Gaddafi. “The TNC will continue for no more than eight months,” after the collapse of Gaddafi’s regime, Mustafa Abdel Jalil said on Tuesday. The TNC has been recognized by dozens of countries as the legitimate governing authority in Libya.....snip~
Think they are going to stick by their Word. Also there are two factions of the Senussi Dynasty that will return. One backs whatever governemnt they impose. The other is reday to take the Country in his eyes. That be the Sunussi Prince that ran to Sweeden.
Conley
08-20-2011, 01:07 PM
Surely the unrest is not going to stop with Quaddafi. Either there will have to be an occupying force like there was in Iraq or else the country will continue to see the ravages of war. :-\
Surely the unrest is not going to stop with Quaddafi. Either there will have to be an occupying force like there was in Iraq or else the country will continue to see the ravages of war. :-\
I think so to.....as I have a funny feeling that the Berbers are not going to go for the MB involved into their politics. Or I should say tribal rule.
Conley
08-20-2011, 01:19 PM
Surely the unrest is not going to stop with Quaddafi. Either there will have to be an occupying force like there was in Iraq or else the country will continue to see the ravages of war. :-\
I think so to.....as I have a funny feeling that the Berbers are not going to go for the MB involved into their politics. Or I should say tribal rule.
So has there been any talk of a troop commitment by the Allies...boots on the ground, peacekeepers etc? Anything definite yet?
Surely the unrest is not going to stop with Quaddafi. Either there will have to be an occupying force like there was in Iraq or else the country will continue to see the ravages of war. :-\
I think so to.....as I have a funny feeling that the Berbers are not going to go for the MB involved into their politics. Or I should say tribal rule.
So has there been any talk of a troop commitment by the Allies...boots on the ground, peacekeepers etc? Anything definite yet?
Not that I heard....but I expect the french to play as much as a part as they can. They need it as they will be next after Spain on the IMF bail-outs. Already they are talking about taking away their trip A rating......plus Eurpoe will need Oil.
Mister D
08-20-2011, 01:52 PM
France has claimed an interest in the area for a long time. Remember, this region was under French control as late as the 1960s.
Conley
08-20-2011, 01:58 PM
Surely the unrest is not going to stop with Quaddafi. Either there will have to be an occupying force like there was in Iraq or else the country will continue to see the ravages of war. :-\
I think so to.....as I have a funny feeling that the Berbers are not going to go for the MB involved into their politics. Or I should say tribal rule.
So has there been any talk of a troop commitment by the Allies...boots on the ground, peacekeepers etc? Anything definite yet?
France has claimed an interest in the area for a long time. Remember, this region was under French control as late as the 1960s.
Yeah I kind of figured they'd take over since they were the initiators of all this to begin with. They want the oil no doubt.
Mister D
08-20-2011, 03:29 PM
Surely the unrest is not going to stop with Quaddafi. Either there will have to be an occupying force like there was in Iraq or else the country will continue to see the ravages of war. :-\
I think so to.....as I have a funny feeling that the Berbers are not going to go for the MB involved into their politics. Or I should say tribal rule.
So has there been any talk of a troop commitment by the Allies...boots on the ground, peacekeepers etc? Anything definite yet?
France has claimed an interest in the area for a long time. Remember, this region was under French control as late as the 1960s.
Yeah I kind of figured they'd take over since they were the initiators of all this to begin with. They want the oil no doubt.
The French, unlike the Germans, have lately come to realization that Europe is more or less irrelevant in geopolitical terms. Sure, it's rich and developed but it has no muscle and even less will to use muscle even if it had any. I think we will see the defense capabilities of Europe rise over the next few decades. I could be wrong though.
France has claimed an interest in the area for a long time. Remember, this region was under French control as late as the 1960s.
Well technically speaking Libya is Italy's screw-up.....but you and I know the French and italy were aligned. One need only look to Sardinia and Corsica and go back in time. Especially wih anything west of Italy.
Surely the unrest is not going to stop with Quaddafi. Either there will have to be an occupying force like there was in Iraq or else the country will continue to see the ravages of war. :-\
I think so to.....as I have a funny feeling that the Berbers are not going to go for the MB involved into their politics. Or I should say tribal rule.
So has there been any talk of a troop commitment by the Allies...boots on the ground, peacekeepers etc? Anything definite yet?
France has claimed an interest in the area for a long time. Remember, this region was under French control as late as the 1960s.
Yeah I kind of figured they'd take over since they were the initiators of all this to begin with. They want the oil no doubt.
The French, unlike the Germans, have lately come to realization that Europe is more or less irrelevant in geopolitical terms. Sure, it's rich and developed but it has no muscle and even less will to use muscle even if it had any. I think we will see the defense capabilities of Europe rise over the next few decades. I could be wrong though.
I think you will be right. As the grand liberal experiment has proven to be a failure. As evidenced with what is taking place with most of the E.U.'s economies. Germany will not go for long as being the country to hold up Europe Economically. Eventually the political structure will force Each to look to their own Defenses. Which is something they have not had to do for decades.
France knows this and makes their move for the long term political game to buy time. As France know they need more markets for the EU. Problem France just put theirselves back into the game with the M.E.....by Aligning with the Sunni. Maybe the French think they can keep the Berbers divided. Or even reduced to a point where population wise they are no longer a viable threat.
It is the end game for Qadhafi.....trying to hold Tripoli is ridiculous. Why he ever(thats if the info is actual and correct.) attempted to hold Tripoli as a siege point. Is beyond me. IMO he has no choice but to go in country and take what he can with him. Or disperse all units to do the same. It is his only Chance. It also means giving up any ties to his family until he is done one way or another. Also such would also take in account that he can inspire other to keep the fight up with him.
Conley
08-23-2011, 10:22 PM
Interesting account of the journalists' experience with Seif:
Take the reports that Seif al-Islam, a favored son of Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi and one-time heir-apparent to his desert regime, had been captured by rebel fighters as they stormed through the city.
But here he was, confident and smiling in his camouflage pants and army-green T-shirt, turning up out of the night early Tuesday at the Rixos.
He flashed a big smile and a V-for-victory sign.
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2011/08/23/general-ml-libya-hotel-from-hell_8639184.html
Interesting account of the journalists' experience with Seif:
Take the reports that Seif al-Islam, a favored son of Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi and one-time heir-apparent to his desert regime, had been captured by rebel fighters as they stormed through the city.
But here he was, confident and smiling in his camouflage pants and army-green T-shirt, turning up out of the night early Tuesday at the Rixos.
He flashed a big smile and a V-for-victory sign.
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2011/08/23/general-ml-libya-hotel-from-hell_8639184.html
Thing is all US military advisors are saying the only way now to weigh Qadhafi's strength is thru street-fighting with gangs. Interesting to note that Seif is the head of all the youth groups across the country. Gang, drugs, etc etc.
http://blog.seattlepi.com/davidhorsey/files/2011/03/Libya-3-16-11-color-640x484.jpg
::)
http://feb17.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/680_62.jpg
Test.....What is missing from this map? Cool map tho. ;)
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/envoy/libyan-rebels-bought-miniature-surveillance-drone-internet-213029799.html
The Libyan Rebels in June began using a Miniature Aerial Drone. Which they purchased off the Internet.
Naturally, the rebels turned to the Internet for help. In June, members of the Libyan National Transition Council were "searching the Web," the New York Times reports, where they found information about a surveillance drone--"essentially a tiny, four-rotor helicopter dangling a pod carrying stabilized-image day- and night-vision cameras"--made by Aeryon Labs of Waterloo, Ontario.
The cost? About $100,000 to $200,000, Barlow said, "but it depends a lot" on the situation, he added, explaining that mitigating factors include how quickly the customer needs the device, how many they're buying, and whether it's a drone that has thermal cameras, which are able to see at night.
Once Canada recognized the rebels as the official Libyan government, no more legal obstacles remained, Barlow said.....snip~
Aeryon Scout UAV in use with the Libyan Rebels (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ3hEt0EOkc#ws)
This is what the Flying Camera looks like.....It has helped the Rebels with their Advances.
Exposed MI6 spies paved rebel path to Tripoli battlefront (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ridbAu_QGJQ#)
This is how the Rebels were able to make their move on Tripoli.....
Mister D
08-26-2011, 07:31 AM
France has claimed an interest in the area for a long time. Remember, this region was under French control as late as the 1960s.
Well technically speaking Libya is Italy's screw-up.....but you and I know the French and italy were aligned. One need only look to Sardinia and Corsica and go back in time. Especially wih anything west of Italy.
True. France has been working on a E.U./North African trade agreement for a while now. I thin it calls for some economic integration with the E.U. but I don't think that will ever fly at this point considering how europeans feel about migration.
France has claimed an interest in the area for a long time. Remember, this region was under French control as late as the 1960s.
Well technically speaking Libya is Italy's screw-up.....but you and I know the French and italy were aligned. One need only look to Sardinia and Corsica and go back in time. Especially wih anything west of Italy.
True. France has been working on a E.U./North African trade agreement for a while now. I thin it calls for some economic integration with the E.U. but I don't think that will ever fly at this point considering how europeans feel about migration.
Yeah to me France is doing all they can to avoid that IMF bailout.....they know they are up next. Britain is already headed towards hyper-inflation. Plus the Germans just told the the whole EU financial sector they will not allow policy to be dictated by that financial sector. Meaning they are not going to back up all of the EU.
In the meantime some Rebels are now going after each other.....While others are celebrating in some towns. To top it off then they are fighting Qadhafi's forces. In which he released another statement today.
Mister D
08-26-2011, 08:20 AM
France has claimed an interest in the area for a long time. Remember, this region was under French control as late as the 1960s.
Well technically speaking Libya is Italy's screw-up.....but you and I know the French and italy were aligned. One need only look to Sardinia and Corsica and go back in time. Especially wih anything west of Italy.
True. France has been working on a E.U./North African trade agreement for a while now. I thin it calls for some economic integration with the E.U. but I don't think that will ever fly at this point considering how europeans feel about migration.
Yeah to me France is doing all they can to avoid that IMF bailout.....they know they are up next. Britain is already headed towards hyper-inflation. Plus the Germans just told the the whole EU financial sector they will not allow policy to be dictated by that financial sector. Meaning they are not going to back up all of the EU.
In the meantime some Rebels are now going after each other.....While others are celebrating in some towns. To top it off then they are fighting Qadhafi's forces. In which he released another statement today.
Now we'll have to find out who is who among the rebel factions. Like I said several times, I'm not sorry to see Omar go but now we'll see what we are actually supporting.
http://news.yahoo.com/gruesome-tripoli-rebels-call-aid-033525234.html
"We are calling all the humanitarian organisations and telling them that Tripoli needs medicines, first aid products and surgical material," he told a news conference.
Blaming "sabotage by Kadhafi's forces" for shortages of water and electricity in Tripoli, he said: "We are working on resolving these problems."
While fighting was still under way on various fronts, the focus was increasingly turning to a post-Kadhafi era, with calls for reconciliation and a peaceful transition.
He admitted there was still resistance left.
"Anybody who thinks that there is not a fraction of people who support Kadhafi or that there is no fifth column who will try to trouble the peace of Tripoli would be mistaken."
The rebels have offered a $1.7 million dollar reward for Kadhafi's capture, dead or alive.
The rebels late Friday captured the Ras Jdir border post on the frontier with Tunisia, through which it was feared Kadhafi, his henchmen and family might use to escape.
The rebels, who are making slow progress in their advance on Kadhafi's hometown of Sirte, east of Tripoli, another possible bolthole, want to find him so they can proclaim final victory in the six-month-old uprising.....snip~
According to the article they discovered 50 bodies after fighting Qadhafi's one Son's 32 Brigade. Khamis! For 7 hrs. The Arab league has asked that Libya's assets be opened up. Also the Rebels want more humanitarian aid. Maybe the French and the Brits can oblige them some more. Same with the Sunni. Either way the TNC admits they must get Qadhafi. Also Sebah is still in Qadhafi's hands. US assessment is.....if Qadhafi attempts to escape we believe he will exit thru Chad or Niger. The Rebels took the Border Post on the Tunisian Border thinking he will go to Tunisia.
IMO the Rebels are attempting to surround Sirte Qadhafi's home grounds. They leaped over this area to make the move on Qadhafi in the West. Looks Like MI-6 was trying to lock in the home grounds while leaving a way so that Qadhafi could head home. Bringing that End game to a finality. I havent seen anything on Sabah and thats where I think Qadhafi's other kid is. The Rebels need to take Sebah. If they can do this then Qadhafi can be trapped in his home turf. >:D
Qadhafi vows not to surrender and to fight with guerilla warfare. He also called Sirte the Capital of the resistence. That Libya is being occupied and will be by NATO. He stated they have come for the Oil. Not only did he just broadcast once. He did so again at night. This was even after one of his ministers had turned on him, and some of his family got out to Algeria.....
The Rebels changed their deadline on attacking Sirte. Also Qadhafi has now called out all those tribes from the Bani Walid and stating they are loyal to him and the people of Libya.
http://news.yahoo.com/gadhafi-hiding-vows-no-surrender-libya-201028973.html
TRIPOLI, Libya (AP) — In a fiery broadcast from hiding, Moammar Gadhafi warned Thursday that loyalist tribes in his main strongholds were armed and preparing for battle, a show of defiance hours after rebels extended a deadline for the surrender of the fugitive leader's hometown.
"We want to save our fighters and not lose a single one in battles with Gadhafi's forces," said Mohammed al-Rajali, a spokesman for the rebel leadership in the eastern city of Benghazi. "In the end, we will get Sirte, even if we have to cut water and electricity" and let NATO pound it with airstrikes.....snip~ Did the Rebels forget the UN Mandate? Can NATO just bomb Sirte only?
World leaders meeting in Paris on Libya's future after Gadhafi said the NATO military operations would continue as long as needed.
The rebels, who have effectively ended Gadhafi's rule, dismiss his threats as empty rhetoric.
The rebels believe he may be in one of their three key targets. The fighters, backed by NATO airstrikes, have been pushing recently toward Sirte as well as Bani Walid, 90 miles (140 kilometers) southeast of Tripoli, and the southern city of Sabha.
All three were given a Saturday deadline to surrender. While the deadline extension was officially only for Sirte, rebels said it would also apply to Bani Walid and Sabha.
Pro-Gadhafi forces control most of Sabha and large numbers of soldiers — including mercenaries from other African countries — are camped on its outskirts, said Abdul Awidat, a Sabha resident currently in Tripoli.....snip~
Looks like it is not quite over like the Rebels are saying..... :o
http://news.yahoo.com/gadhafi-leaned-arab-allies-stay-power-054547467.html
AP – 5 hrs ago.....
CAIRO (AP) — Moammar Gadhafi's dictatorship likely wouldn't have survived for more than four decades without the sea of dictators all around, protecting one another and working together to silence dissident voices.
Gadhafi himself saw collapse was inevitable as Arab unity frayed, and he pointed to the fall of Iraq's Saddam Hussein as a sign of things to come. "Your turn is next," he warned fellow leaders in a scathing speech at the 2008 Arab League summit in Damascus.
Shortly after that, King Idriss' nephew Abdullah al-Abid al-Senoussi, also known as the Black Prince, led a force of 5,000 mercenaries from Chad and planned to arm tribes loyal to the king to fight against Gadhafi. This time, it was Tunisians who are believed to have tipped off Gadhafi.
In a recent interview, Gadhafi's former Foreign Minister Abdel-Rahman Shalqam, who defected during this year's rebellion, told the pan-Arab newspaper Al-Hayat that Gadhafi used to pay former Tunisian President Zine El Abidine Ben Ali a monthly salary, and that Tunisian-Libyan cooperation was "at the highest level."
Gadhafi even paid the editors of state-owned newspapers in Egypt, Syria and elsewhere to run "propaganda glorifying him or at the very least to block any channels between the opposition and public opinion," said Fayez Jibril, a Cairo-based founder of the National Front for the Salvation of Libya, Libya's oldest opposition group.
In 1980, Morocco handed over a well-known former member of the Gadhafi-led Revolution Council, Omar al-Mehishi. Al-Mehishi had fled first to Egypt and then to Morocco after his failed attempt to oust Gadhafi.....snip~
Some of this shows why Gadhafi was protected and still may be why he is protected.....also as a member of OPEC and has spoken out against Qatar. Would also show why he was having the Sunni come down on him.
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/55018000/jpg/_55018007_libya_algeria_624x.jpg
Qadhafi released another message yesterday stating he was not gone. Told the people to rise up and not let France and Italy take them back to be a colony.
Mister D
09-08-2011, 09:28 AM
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/55018000/jpg/_55018007_libya_algeria_624x.jpg
Qadhafi released another message yesterday stating he was not gone. Told the people to rise up and not let France and Italy take them back to be a colony.
France and Italy don't have the will for any such thing. Qadhafi is desperate. Besides, the people are rising up. That's why your hold on power is slipping.
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/55018000/jpg/_55018007_libya_algeria_624x.jpg
Qadhafi released another message yesterday stating he was not gone. Told the people to rise up and not let France and Italy take them back to be a colony.
France and Italy don't have the will for any such thing. Qadhafi is desperate. Besides, the people are rising up. That's why your hold on power is slipping.
Later there was a release that he was looking to negotiate with Niger. I haven't confirmed it tho.
Mister D
09-08-2011, 10:03 AM
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/55018000/jpg/_55018007_libya_algeria_624x.jpg
Qadhafi released another message yesterday stating he was not gone. Told the people to rise up and not let France and Italy take them back to be a colony.
France and Italy don't have the will for any such thing. Qadhafi is desperate. Besides, the people are rising up. That's why your hold on power is slipping.
Later there was a release that he was looking to negotiate with Niger. I haven't confirmed it tho.
Negotiate what? What can Niger do? Grant asylum?
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/55018000/jpg/_55018007_libya_algeria_624x.jpg
Qadhafi released another message yesterday stating he was not gone. Told the people to rise up and not let France and Italy take them back to be a colony.
France and Italy don't have the will for any such thing. Qadhafi is desperate. Besides, the people are rising up. That's why your hold on power is slipping.
Later there was a release that he was looking to negotiate with Niger. I haven't confirmed it tho.
Negotiate what? What can Niger do? Grant asylum?
Yep thats all they can do.....well, or deny him.
Mister D
09-08-2011, 10:09 AM
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/55018000/jpg/_55018007_libya_algeria_624x.jpg
Qadhafi released another message yesterday stating he was not gone. Told the people to rise up and not let France and Italy take them back to be a colony.
France and Italy don't have the will for any such thing. Qadhafi is desperate. Besides, the people are rising up. That's why your hold on power is slipping.
Later there was a release that he was looking to negotiate with Niger. I haven't confirmed it tho.
Negotiate what? What can Niger do? Grant asylum?
Yep thats all they can do.....well, or deny him.
I doubt they will decline him. The AU is a bit of a joke and they crave relevance.
http://news.yahoo.com/gaddafi-loyalists-capture-17-foreign-mercenaries-095030646.html
Gaddafi himself remains on the run. Ibrahim, his spokesman, has repeatedly said he is still in Libya directing resistance.
In addition to Bani Walid and Sirte, his fighters also control the town of Sabha deep in the Sahara desert, effectively dividing the east of the country from the west and making it difficult for the NTC to exert control.
BANI WALID/SIRTE, Libya (Reuters) - Muammar Gaddafi's loyalists said on Monday they had captured 17 mercenaries -- some British and French -- in what would amount to a severe blow to Libya's new rulers and their international backers.
Nearly a month after Gaddafi was driven from power, his loyalist holdouts have beaten back repeated assaults by National Transitional Council forces at the town of Bani Walid and Gaddafi's home city of Sirte. NTC fighters have been sent fleeing in disarray after failing to storm Gaddafi bastions.
The NTC, still based in the eastern city of Benghazi, has faced questions about whether it can unify a country divided on tribal and local lines. A long-promised attempt to set up a more inclusive interim government fell apart overnight.
However, Western nations have sent special forces in the past, and media have reported that private security firms have aided anti-Gaddafi forces in training, targeting and with leadership. Gulf Arab states have also sent trainers and arms.
The political infighting reveals some of the fractures in an alliance that was united during the conflict by opposition to Gaddafi but divided among pro-Western liberals, underground Islamist guerrillas and defectors from Gaddafi's government.
The NTC has its roots in Libya's east, but most of the militiamen who finally succeeded in driving Gaddafi out of Tripoli are from towns in the west. Fighters are organized by home town into units with little overall coordination.....snip~
Hmmmm Looks like Gadhafi is still Alive and Kickin. Actually a few days ago there have been AFP and AP flashes that Gadhafi Forces stuffed the whole advance into the Bani Walid. NATO has bombed the shit out of Qadhafi's home town and birthplace. But they have stopped all advances.
Again what I was talking about before is coming into play. They cannot agree on a Government. Those in the West don't care to much for what those in the East's agenda is. The article points this out with the way the West is set up with the Berber Tribes and their Units.
Who is pushing the Libyan Rebels to keep things going in the aspect of taking rule of the Country? When the enemy has not been defeated. Lets run the country but have only a half to run. What type of Military strategy is this? The Rebels are now learning what takes place when listening to politicians. Still to have all this backing. Plus French and British Special Forces in and on the ground from the beginning, and to now have broadcast across the world that the Rebels were stuffed. Plus now NATO troops captured. I think that NATO and all these Western Nations just took a major hit politically. Which we know means money.
http://ts2.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1075901302901&id=2ce91a25a243ddfad8d674497478d812&url=http%3a%2f%2fmotivationalimage.com%2fold%2fwp-content%2f2008_03%2fc2361273e8.jpg
All know.....right now, if the US pulls their support. That then NATO and Rebels will not be able to take control of the country. We dont watch out. Gadhafi will become the Ghost of the Desert. An Iconic Nomadic Holy-Man bent on the destruction of the known Universe....."wait" didn't we see this before, Obie-one? ;)
Mister D
09-19-2011, 08:32 AM
Not sure we can believe Gaddafi loyalists. Reminds me of Saddam's propaganda guy in Baghdad.
Conley
09-19-2011, 09:08 AM
How is the capture of 17 mercenaries "a severe blow to Libya's new rulers and their international backers."
???
How is the capture of 17 mercenaries "a severe blow to Libya's new rulers and their international backers."
???
Because NATO said they had no troops on the ground.Which the UN mandate did not call for Putting Troops into Libya.
Mister D
09-19-2011, 09:13 AM
How is the capture of 17 mercenaries "a severe blow to Libya's new rulers and their international backers."
???
:D Did Gaddafi write this?
Mister D
09-19-2011, 09:14 AM
How is the capture of 17 mercenaries "a severe blow to Libya's new rulers and their international backers."
???
Because NATO said they had no troops on the ground.Which the UN mandate did not call for Putting Troops into Libya.
NATO troops and Spec Forces aren't mercenaries.
How is the capture of 17 mercenaries "a severe blow to Libya's new rulers and their international backers."
???
Because NATO said they had no troops on the ground.Which the UN mandate did not call for Putting Troops into Libya.
NATO troops and Spec Forces aren't mercenaries.
While true.....the French and British Army don't use mercs to engage in battle. But thats what Gahafi will call them. Could be security forces and trainers.
Mister D
09-19-2011, 09:19 AM
How is the capture of 17 mercenaries "a severe blow to Libya's new rulers and their international backers."
???
Because NATO said they had no troops on the ground.Which the UN mandate did not call for Putting Troops into Libya.
NATO troops and Spec Forces aren't mercenaries.
While true.....the French and British Army don't use mercs to engage in battle. But thats what Gahafi will call them. Could be security forces and trainers.
Or ths could be 100% horse shit. ;)
How much is Gaddafi payng you? >:(
How is the capture of 17 mercenaries "a severe blow to Libya's new rulers and their international backers."
???
Because NATO said they had no troops on the ground.Which the UN mandate did not call for Putting Troops into Libya.
NATO troops and Spec Forces aren't mercenaries.
While true.....the French and British Army don't use mercs to engage in battle. But thats what Gahafi will call them. Could be security forces and trainers.
Or ths could be 100% horse shit. ;)
How much is Gaddafi payng you? >:(
It's Rueters.....don't blame me, brutha ;)
Conley
09-19-2011, 09:32 AM
Yeah in my mind if they had captured real foreign troops they'd be singing if from the rooftops. Youse guys know better than me.
http://news.yahoo.com/civilians-join-gaddafi-fighters-defend-hometown-175905125.html
Ruling National Transitional Council (NTC) fighters said it was unclear how many Gaddafi loyalists were in the city but several suggested that some of Sirte's civilian residents had started joining the fight on the ousted leader's side.
"There has been some resistance from civilians, volunteers. They're above the buildings with Kalashnikovs, anti-aircraft guns, rockets and other weapons," he said.....snip~
Rueters again.....althought the Rebels say they are advancing. They just forgot to mention it was the opposite direction they need to go. ::)
http://news.yahoo.com/gaddafi-spokesman-17-including-french-british-captured-001716005.html
CAIRO (Reuters) - A spokesman for Muammar Gaddafi said on Sunday that 17 "mercenaries," including what he called French and British "technical experts" had been captured in the Gaddafi bastion of Bani Walid in Libya.
"Most of them are French, one of them is from an Asian country that has not been identified, two English people and one Qatari," he added.
He said the 17 would be shown on television at a later time, but did not give more details.
Western special forces are known to have been in Libya and to have liaised with anti-Gaddafi officials during the conflict. Private security firms have also been helping anti-Gaddafi forces, according to Western media reports.....snip~
Reuters is on it, like Blue Bonnet Margarine! ;)
Conley
09-19-2011, 09:55 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/civilians-join-gaddafi-fighters-defend-hometown-175905125.html
Ruling National Transitional Council (NTC) fighters said it was unclear how many Gaddafi loyalists were in the city but several suggested that some of Sirte's civilian residents had started joining the fight on the ousted leader's side.
"There has been some resistance from civilians, volunteers. They're above the buildings with Kalashnikovs, anti-aircraft guns, rockets and other weapons," he said.....snip~
Rueters again.....althought the Rebels say they are advancing. They just forgot to mention it was the opposite direction they need to go. ::)
Civilians with AA guns? What? :D
Advancing eh?
http://news.yahoo.com/civilians-join-gaddafi-fighters-defend-hometown-175905125.html
Ruling National Transitional Council (NTC) fighters said it was unclear how many Gaddafi loyalists were in the city but several suggested that some of Sirte's civilian residents had started joining the fight on the ousted leader's side.
"There has been some resistance from civilians, volunteers. They're above the buildings with Kalashnikovs, anti-aircraft guns, rockets and other weapons," he said.....snip~
Rueters again.....althought the Rebels say they are advancing. They just forgot to mention it was the opposite direction they need to go. ::)
Civilians with AA guns? What? :D
Advancing eh?
http://news.yahoo.com/gadhafi-forces-launch-attack-libyan-fighters-084935042.html
Yep Advancing.....so the Rebels say. :D ;)
http://news.yahoo.com/gadhafi-loyalists-beat-back-assault-strongholds-205552596.html;_ylt=AsRbMQ8TgqeIMzKShBgeD7IKewgF;_ ylu=X3oDMTFxdWRtcGYxBG1pdANJbmZpbml0ZSBCcm93c2UgVG V4dARwb3MDMwRzZWMDTWVkaWFJbmZpbml0ZUJyb3dzZUxpc3Q-;_ylg=X3oDMTNhb2l0ZXQ4BGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRw c3RhaWQDMzUwMzkxODYtNDQ0OS0zMGY5LTkzNjAtZjYyOWU0OT lmNDlmBHBzdGNhdAN3b3JsZHxtaWRkbGUgZWFzdARwdANzdG9y eXBhZ2UEdGVzdAM-;_ylv=3
This was Friday.....
SIRTE, Libya (AP) — Moammar Gadhafi's fighters beat back an attempt by Libya's new government Friday to crush remnants of the old regime, forcing revolutionary troops into retreat in the mountains and turning Gadhafi's seaside hometown into an urban battlefield of snipers firing from mosques and heavy weapons rattling main boulevards.
The tough defense of the holdout towns of Sirte and Bani Walid displayed the firepower and resolve of the Gadhafi followers and suggested Libya's new rulers may not easily break the back of regime holdouts. It also raised fears the country could face a protracted insurgency of the sort that has played out in Iraq and Afghanistan....snip~
Two different fronts both were just stopped cold.....more and more we are seeing those Civillians in the West go and back Gadhafi. If one were to go to these links and read the comments. Look how many are now starting to root for Qadhafi.
Looks Like Gadhafi has Desert Power.....Do you think the Force is with him, or the Sands of Time? http://politirant.com/Smileys/oldrant/clock.gif ;D
Conley
09-19-2011, 10:36 AM
Seems like real soldiers could hide out in the desert indefinitely. Not sure about Gadhafi though.
MMC how long do you think this will go on?
Seems like real soldiers could hide out in the desert indefinitely. Not sure about Gadhafi though.
MMC how long do you think this will go on?
I couldn't really say.....no one has mentioned all those Soviet Attack Helicopters he has. Nor any of his sams. Sabha is over 650 kilometers from Tripoli and farther to the coast of the Med. Harder to extend a NO fly Zone over such an area. They say Gadhafi luvs the desert. He was a warrior for his tribe. He was a soldier despite himself taking the title of Colonel. Althought he may have earned such when he was part of the Senussi Dynasty. You should read his bio-CL. One does not survive 56 assassination attempts with just luck. Not to mention he survived Reagan's hit on his azz. :-\
Conley
09-19-2011, 11:02 AM
Yeah I gather he is somewhat of a beast, but likely has been slowed by age and a soft life...not sure. I think if they really wanted to take him out just airdrop Putin in there and those two 60 somethings could settle it like men. Put it on Pay Per View with the profits going to pay off the U.S. debt. Win-win-win for all involved. 8)
Mister D
09-19-2011, 11:15 AM
Seems like real soldiers could hide out in the desert indefinitely. Not sure about Gadhafi though.
MMC how long do you think this will go on?
I couldn't really say.....no one has mentioned all those Soviet Attack Helicopters he has. Nor any of his sams. Sabha is over 650 kilometers from Tripoli and farther to the coast of the Med. Harder to extend a NO fly Zone over such an area. They say Gadhafi luvs the desert. He was a warrior for his tribe. He was a soldier despite himself taking the title of Colonel. Althought he may have earned such when he was part of the Senussi Dynasty. You should read his bio-CL. One does not survive 56 assassination attempts with just luck. Not to mention he survived Reagan's hit on his azz. :-\
I'd imagine that, if his SAMs and Soviet helicopters existed, they would have been used a long time ago.
Seems like real soldiers could hide out in the desert indefinitely. Not sure about Gadhafi though.
MMC how long do you think this will go on?
I couldn't really say.....no one has mentioned all those Soviet Attack Helicopters he has. Nor any of his sams. Sabha is over 650 kilometers from Tripoli and farther to the coast of the Med. Harder to extend a NO fly Zone over such an area. They say Gadhafi luvs the desert. He was a warrior for his tribe. He was a soldier despite himself taking the title of Colonel. Althought he may have earned such when he was part of the Senussi Dynasty. You should read his bio-CL. One does not survive 56 assassination attempts with just luck. Not to mention he survived Reagan's hit on his azz. :-\
I'd imagine that, if his SAMs and Soviet helicopters existed, they would have been used a long time ago.
I think General Ham was more concerned who he would sell them to or get them out of the country. NATO has not been able to engage any of them. Nor did Africa Command report that he even tried to use them. I am sure the Sams must be near Sabha thats a Military Airbase and heavily fortified. That is not going to be an easy target to take out. Notice there are no Reports of NATO hitting anything in Sabha. Nor has there been.
Mister D
09-19-2011, 11:32 AM
Seems like real soldiers could hide out in the desert indefinitely. Not sure about Gadhafi though.
MMC how long do you think this will go on?
I couldn't really say.....no one has mentioned all those Soviet Attack Helicopters he has. Nor any of his sams. Sabha is over 650 kilometers from Tripoli and farther to the coast of the Med. Harder to extend a NO fly Zone over such an area. They say Gadhafi luvs the desert. He was a warrior for his tribe. He was a soldier despite himself taking the title of Colonel. Althought he may have earned such when he was part of the Senussi Dynasty. You should read his bio-CL. One does not survive 56 assassination attempts with just luck. Not to mention he survived Reagan's hit on his azz. :-\
I'd imagine that, if his SAMs and Soviet helicopters existed, they would have been used a long time ago.
I think General Ham was more concerned who he would sell them to or get them out of the country. NATO has not been able to engage any of them. Nor did Africa Command report that he even tried to use them. I am sure the Sams must be near Sabha thats a Military Airbase and heavily fortified. That is not going to be an easy target to take out. Notice there are no Reports of NATO hitting anything in Sabha. Nor has there been.
I don't know. With his ass in hot water like that I seriously doubt they are being saved for his grand counter offensive.
Seems like real soldiers could hide out in the desert indefinitely. Not sure about Gadhafi though.
MMC how long do you think this will go on?
I couldn't really say.....no one has mentioned all those Soviet Attack Helicopters he has. Nor any of his sams. Sabha is over 650 kilometers from Tripoli and farther to the coast of the Med. Harder to extend a NO fly Zone over such an area. They say Gadhafi luvs the desert. He was a warrior for his tribe. He was a soldier despite himself taking the title of Colonel. Althought he may have earned such when he was part of the Senussi Dynasty. You should read his bio-CL. One does not survive 56 assassination attempts with just luck. Not to mention he survived Reagan's hit on his azz. :-\
I'd imagine that, if his SAMs and Soviet helicopters existed, they would have been used a long time ago.
I think General Ham was more concerned who he would sell them to or get them out of the country. NATO has not been able to engage any of them. Nor did Africa Command report that he even tried to use them. I am sure the Sams must be near Sabha thats a Military Airbase and heavily fortified. That is not going to be an easy target to take out. Notice there are no Reports of NATO hitting anything in Sabha. Nor has there been.
I don't know. With his ass in hot water like that I seriously doubt they are being saved for his grand counter offensive.
Yeah and considering they have held up most of his money. I would think he would sell them out to the AU. Maybe even offer one or two to say like Niger or Chad.
Mister D
09-19-2011, 11:42 AM
Seems like real soldiers could hide out in the desert indefinitely. Not sure about Gadhafi though.
MMC how long do you think this will go on?
I couldn't really say.....no one has mentioned all those Soviet Attack Helicopters he has. Nor any of his sams. Sabha is over 650 kilometers from Tripoli and farther to the coast of the Med. Harder to extend a NO fly Zone over such an area. They say Gadhafi luvs the desert. He was a warrior for his tribe. He was a soldier despite himself taking the title of Colonel. Althought he may have earned such when he was part of the Senussi Dynasty. You should read his bio-CL. One does not survive 56 assassination attempts with just luck. Not to mention he survived Reagan's hit on his azz. :-\
I'd imagine that, if his SAMs and Soviet helicopters existed, they would have been used a long time ago.
I think General Ham was more concerned who he would sell them to or get them out of the country. NATO has not been able to engage any of them. Nor did Africa Command report that he even tried to use them. I am sure the Sams must be near Sabha thats a Military Airbase and heavily fortified. That is not going to be an easy target to take out. Notice there are no Reports of NATO hitting anything in Sabha. Nor has there been.
I don't know. With his ass in hot water like that I seriously doubt they are being saved for his grand counter offensive.
Yeah and considering they have held up most of his money. I would think he would sell them out to the AU. Maybe even offer one or two to say like Niger or Chad.
Not sure he'll find any takers at this point. How will he get them out?
Seems like real soldiers could hide out in the desert indefinitely. Not sure about Gadhafi though.
MMC how long do you think this will go on?
I couldn't really say.....no one has mentioned all those Soviet Attack Helicopters he has. Nor any of his sams. Sabha is over 650 kilometers from Tripoli and farther to the coast of the Med. Harder to extend a NO fly Zone over such an area. They say Gadhafi luvs the desert. He was a warrior for his tribe. He was a soldier despite himself taking the title of Colonel. Althought he may have earned such when he was part of the Senussi Dynasty. You should read his bio-CL. One does not survive 56 assassination attempts with just luck. Not to mention he survived Reagan's hit on his azz. :-\
I'd imagine that, if his SAMs and Soviet helicopters existed, they would have been used a long time ago.
I think General Ham was more concerned who he would sell them to or get them out of the country. NATO has not been able to engage any of them. Nor did Africa Command report that he even tried to use them. I am sure the Sams must be near Sabha thats a Military Airbase and heavily fortified. That is not going to be an easy target to take out. Notice there are no Reports of NATO hitting anything in Sabha. Nor has there been.
I don't know. With his ass in hot water like that I seriously doubt they are being saved for his grand counter offensive.
Yeah and considering they have held up most of his money. I would think he would sell them out to the AU. Maybe even offer one or two to say like Niger or Chad.
Not sure he'll find any takers at this point. How will he get them out?
Easily NATO does not have the Southern Part of Libya under any fly Zone. If you check back with some of the maps we have you will see NATO has nothing anywheres near the Southern border of LIBYA. Lot of Desert out there.
Vietnam War-House of the Rising Sun (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpWEv9Q0XQ4#)
Eerily similar in many respects.Meaning on How it All began.
http://news.yahoo.com/libyan-forces-captured-part-sabha-013259312.html
http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/Denq3RBRmtzIjNx0c0b5hg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD0zMDM7cT04NTt3PTQ1MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2011-09-20T102300Z_01_BTRE78J0SHO00_RTROPTP_2_LIBYA.JPG
This is not a good picture but you see how Gadhafi is camoing his tanks and artillery. The Rebels said they took this tank as Gadhafi forces just left it. I think it is a crock of shit. Al-jazerra has no report of the Rebels going into the center of Sirte and taking this tank like they said they did. Even Rueters has pointed out how many times the Rebels have gotten their information wrong. Which was a nice way to say. QUIT LYING MOFO's! All reports by the Media. AFP, Reuters, Al-Jazerra, and the Asian times have all reported the stall out by the Rebels. That they have fled in disarray and been stuffed in certain areas.
NATO and the WEST are denying that Gadhafi captured anybody. Not that I care for the Sandman of the Desert. But if I was Gadhafi and he had French Prisoners, and all were Denying it. I would immediately keep Executing them Until the French Admitted to the truth and that NATO did put SF in on the ground despite all their lies.
WTF did they think we forgot when Gadhafi captured the SAS boys and those Dutch SF boys. Quit lying to the World and especially to us AMERICANS! >:(
Mister D
09-20-2011, 10:42 AM
You're on Omar's payroll! >:( ;D
Did you guys see the beginning of that Video I put up with what Kennedy said? He is in the beginning of that Video talking about how the US did not want to go to War. I remind you all what took place with Nam after that speech.
Mister D
09-20-2011, 10:55 AM
Two things:
1. It's a war zone and it's an undeveloped country. The information reaching the public will rarely be completely relaible. Moreover, the antagonists will try to put the best possible spin on the information they do release.
2. Unlike Vietnam, there is no superpwoer showdown. The context is very different. There is no way in hell the American public will allow troops on the ground in anythign like the level in Iraq/Afghanistan.
You're on Omar's payroll! >:( ;D
:o http://www.politicalhotwire.com/images/smilies/signs/dau.gif thats Mo-Mar to you Crusader. Omar is his cuzin. Ali-baba is his thief. Ahab is his sailor. Mata-Hari his spy. Mohammed is his prophet. :D Notice something missing from that mix.
Thats right.....A Leader!
Now if I was on his payroll.....this shit would have been over two months ago. With the French, Sunni, and Rebels tuckin-tail and hoping I decided to leave Club Med alone. I would have forced the US out and how you might ask would I have done that. By leaking classifed intel to the Media about any dealings I had with them. Then offer it as a gift to the Chinese and Russians. I would not have played defense.
ALso I would have excuted the SAS and any French Advisors live on World-wide Television. Pointing out how they stated there would be no Troops on the ground. Thus breaking the UN Mandate that was told to the Entire World.
Two things:
1. It's a war zone and it's an undeveloped country. The information reaching the public will rarely be completely relaible. Moreover, the antagonists will try to put the best possible spin on the information they do release.
2. Unlike Vietnam, there is no superpwoer showdown. The context is very different. There is no way in hell the American public will allow troops on the ground in anythign like the level in Iraq/Afghanistan.
Ah, you musta missed the beginning of that video with Kennedy. Other than the NO Fly Zone. The same was said with Nam. No war. No Troops being sent anywheres. Same bottom line.....same concept. Different circumstances.
You cannot win a War without Putting Troops on the ground.(well you can, but no one on the planet will do what is required.) You cannot dislodge a guerilla fighter by saying you are winnng and he is no longer ruling. Then just start running the country. He must be defeated. Killed, captured, or sent into exile. This conflict is hardly over.
Gadhafi knew all along that he cannot stop the US supplies. He has played defense only. Moreover he can count on the other Berbers not accepting Sunni rule. Nor a Sunni and or French Puppet. He plays for time. Has from the start. While the French, Sunni, and Brits rushed to get it over. All knew the consequences of a guerilla war before they even took the endeavor.
Mister D
09-20-2011, 11:29 AM
Two things:
1. It's a war zone and it's an undeveloped country. The information reaching the public will rarely be completely relaible. Moreover, the antagonists will try to put the best possible spin on the information they do release.
2. Unlike Vietnam, there is no superpwoer showdown. The context is very different. There is no way in hell the American public will allow troops on the ground in anythign like the level in Iraq/Afghanistan.
Ah, you musta missed the beginning of that video with Kennedy. Other than the NO Fly Zone. The same was said with Nam. No war. No Troops being sent anywheres. Same bottom line.....same concept. Different circumstances.
You cannot win a War without Putting Troops on the ground.(well you can, but no one on the planet will do what is required.) You cannot dislodge a guerilla fighter by saying you are winnng and he is no longer ruling. Then just start running the country. He must be defeated. Killed, captured, or sent into exile. This conflict is hardly over.
Gadhafi knew all along that he cannot stop the US supplies. He has played defense only. Moreover he can count on the other Berbers not accepting Sunni rule. Nor a Sunni and or French Puppet. He plays for time. Has from the start. While the French, Sunni, and Brits rushed to get it over. All knew the consequences of a guerilla war before they even took the endeavor.
It's a totally different world picture, MMC. Unfortunately it's also a different America. :-\
I agree that you can't win a war without occupying ground but this isn't our war and there is no way the powers that be will be able to justify troop deployments to Libya beyond some BS peacekeeping. No chance. I agree that teh war, such that it is, will drag on but that does not make it another Vietnam.
Two things:
1. It's a war zone and it's an undeveloped country. The information reaching the public will rarely be completely relaible. Moreover, the antagonists will try to put the best possible spin on the information they do release.
2. Unlike Vietnam, there is no superpwoer showdown. The context is very different. There is no way in hell the American public will allow troops on the ground in anythign like the level in Iraq/Afghanistan.
Ah, you musta missed the beginning of that video with Kennedy. Other than the NO Fly Zone. The same was said with Nam. No war. No Troops being sent anywheres. Same bottom line.....same concept. Different circumstances.
You cannot win a War without Putting Troops on the ground.(well you can, but no one on the planet will do what is required.) You cannot dislodge a guerilla fighter by saying you are winnng and he is no longer ruling. Then just start running the country. He must be defeated. Killed, captured, or sent into exile. This conflict is hardly over.
Gadhafi knew all along that he cannot stop the US supplies. He has played defense only. Moreover he can count on the other Berbers not accepting Sunni rule. Nor a Sunni and or French Puppet. He plays for time. Has from the start. While the French, Sunni, and Brits rushed to get it over. All knew the consequences of a guerilla war before they even took the endeavor.
It's a totally different world picture, MMC. Unfortunately it's also a different America. :-\
I agree that you can't win a war without occupying ground but this isn't our war and there is no way the powers that be will be able to justify troop deployments to Libya beyond some BS peacekeeping. No chance. I agree that teh war, such that it is, will drag on but that does not make it another Vietnam.
Well when it goes into next year......just remember there won't be any pulling some bearded guy out of hole in the ground with a bunch of Cold-Hard Cash. The French were the one that was delving into Indochina. They made a play. They couldn't hold their own. They came to us for help. Then left us with the bag. Yet you do not see this happening here?
While the French have called the shots and Led the way. Manipulting it's Allies just like it did before. Decieving it's allies like they did before. Then when the shit hits the fan. They bug out asking all to help them again. Except this time it is different. The French has the backing of a larger UN.
Mister D
09-20-2011, 11:48 AM
Two things:
1. It's a war zone and it's an undeveloped country. The information reaching the public will rarely be completely relaible. Moreover, the antagonists will try to put the best possible spin on the information they do release.
2. Unlike Vietnam, there is no superpwoer showdown. The context is very different. There is no way in hell the American public will allow troops on the ground in anythign like the level in Iraq/Afghanistan.
Ah, you musta missed the beginning of that video with Kennedy. Other than the NO Fly Zone. The same was said with Nam. No war. No Troops being sent anywheres. Same bottom line.....same concept. Different circumstances.
You cannot win a War without Putting Troops on the ground.(well you can, but no one on the planet will do what is required.) You cannot dislodge a guerilla fighter by saying you are winnng and he is no longer ruling. Then just start running the country. He must be defeated. Killed, captured, or sent into exile. This conflict is hardly over.
Gadhafi knew all along that he cannot stop the US supplies. He has played defense only. Moreover he can count on the other Berbers not accepting Sunni rule. Nor a Sunni and or French Puppet. He plays for time. Has from the start. While the French, Sunni, and Brits rushed to get it over. All knew the consequences of a guerilla war before they even took the endeavor.
It's a totally different world picture, MMC. Unfortunately it's also a different America. :-\
I agree that you can't win a war without occupying ground but this isn't our war and there is no way the powers that be will be able to justify troop deployments to Libya beyond some BS peacekeeping. No chance. I agree that teh war, such that it is, will drag on but that does not make it another Vietnam.
Well when it goes into next year......just remember there won't be any pulling some bearded guy out of hole in the ground with a bunch of Cold-Hard Cash. The French were the one that was delving into Indochina. They made a play. They couldn't hold their own. They came to us for help. Then left us with the bag. Yet you do not see this happening here?
While the French have called the shots and Led the way. Manipulting it's Allies just like it did before. Decieving it's allies like they did before. Then when the shit hits the fan. They bug out asking all to help them again. Except this time it is different. The French has the backing of a larger UN.
Not a chance of that happening here, IMO. We had specific reasons why we didn't want the French to fail in Vietnam. Moreover those were reasons most Americans could rally behind. I don't think that situation exists today. What case could be made with regard to US interests in Libya especially after Iraq and Afghanistan?
Two things:
1. It's a war zone and it's an undeveloped country. The information reaching the public will rarely be completely relaible. Moreover, the antagonists will try to put the best possible spin on the information they do release.
2. Unlike Vietnam, there is no superpwoer showdown. The context is very different. There is no way in hell the American public will allow troops on the ground in anythign like the level in Iraq/Afghanistan.
Ah, you musta missed the beginning of that video with Kennedy. Other than the NO Fly Zone. The same was said with Nam. No war. No Troops being sent anywheres. Same bottom line.....same concept. Different circumstances.
You cannot win a War without Putting Troops on the ground.(well you can, but no one on the planet will do what is required.) You cannot dislodge a guerilla fighter by saying you are winnng and he is no longer ruling. Then just start running the country. He must be defeated. Killed, captured, or sent into exile. This conflict is hardly over.
Gadhafi knew all along that he cannot stop the US supplies. He has played defense only. Moreover he can count on the other Berbers not accepting Sunni rule. Nor a Sunni and or French Puppet. He plays for time. Has from the start. While the French, Sunni, and Brits rushed to get it over. All knew the consequences of a guerilla war before they even took the endeavor.
It's a totally different world picture, MMC. Unfortunately it's also a different America. :-\
I agree that you can't win a war without occupying ground but this isn't our war and there is no way the powers that be will be able to justify troop deployments to Libya beyond some BS peacekeeping. No chance. I agree that teh war, such that it is, will drag on but that does not make it another Vietnam.
Well when it goes into next year......just remember there won't be any pulling some bearded guy out of hole in the ground with a bunch of Cold-Hard Cash. The French were the one that was delving into Indochina. They made a play. They couldn't hold their own. They came to us for help. Then left us with the bag. Yet you do not see this happening here?
While the French have called the shots and Led the way. Manipulting it's Allies just like it did before. Decieving it's allies like they did before. Then when the shit hits the fan. They bug out asking all to help them again. Except this time it is different. The French has the backing of a larger UN.
Not a chance of that happening here, IMO. We had specific reasons why we didn't want the French to fail in Vietnam. Moreover those were reasons most Americans could rally behind. I don't think that situation exists today. What case could be made with regard to US interests in Libya especially after Iraq and Afghanistan?
We have specific reasons why we wont let the French and Sunni fail here as well. Which will concern the African Continent. One is Egypt and the Suez. The others are Oil and Minerals. Rare Metals. Especially Considering Most of South America is doing buisness with the Chinese and Russians. Not so much with the US. Other than Colombia. That other tie is an economic interest that ties or brings into the fold.
http://news.yahoo.com/gadhafi-gunmen-cross-border-algeria-libya-114431968.html
TRIPOLI, Libya (AP) — Libyan officials say gunmen loyal to Moammar Gadhafi have crossed the border from Algeria to attack revolutionary forces in a border city, killing six people.
He told reporters Sunday that the attackers belonged to a unit that had been under the command of Gadhafi's son, Khamis.
An official from Ghadames, Ali al-Mana, confirmed the attack and said six people were killed and 63 others wounded.....snip~
Okay now.....for days they have been crossing the Algerian border and making attacks on the Rebels??? Is he trying to say Khamis is running shit out of Algeria. While his other Son fights in Sirte. Then while Qadhafi runs back and forth to Sabha and the Bani Walid.....So we heard the Rebels vaulting they had moved on Sabha. Only to get stuffed again. Whats up with that? seems the Rebels are always counting their chickens before they hatch. Scrambled Eggs anyone?
Conley
09-25-2011, 08:55 AM
Scrambled eggs indeed. Wasn't this supposed to be over weeks ago according to the rebels? They had Gadhafi surrounded and all that. This looks like another military encounter that we'll be in for a while. Hmmm...yet another one that was supposed to be quick and easy. ::)
Scrambled eggs indeed. Wasn't this supposed to be over weeks ago according to the rebels? They had Gadhafi surrounded and all that. This looks like another military encounter that we'll be in for a while. Hmmm...yet another one that was supposed to be quick and easy. ::)
Plus Sarkosy is having trouble at home. plus they put the sanctions on Syrian Oil. If the rebels cannot keep control of the Libyan Oil fields france will have some more probelms. as will Sarkosy. Especially now with what he did in the UN with the Palestinians. They have to get rid of Gadhafi. They can't just ignore him.
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