PDA

View Full Version : End taxes on Corporations



Peter1469
08-25-2014, 06:37 AM
End taxes on Corporations (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/24/upshot/one-way-to-fix-the-corporate-tax-repeal-it.html?smid=pl-share&_r=2&abt=0002&abg=0)

It is only paid by individuals anyway. Instead of crying about corporations going overseas, end corporate taxes and see corporations leave other countries to come here.


“Some people are calling these companies ‘corporate deserters.’ ”


That is what President Obama said last month (http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/07/24/remarks-president-economy-los-angeles-ca) about the recent wave of tax inversions sweeping across corporate America, and he did not disagree with the description. But are our nation’s business leaders really so unpatriotic?
A tax inversion occurs when an American company merges with a foreign one and, in the process, reincorporates abroad. Such mergers have many motives, but often one of them is to take advantage of the more favorable tax treatment offered by some other nations.


Such tax inversions mean less money for the United States Treasury. As a result, the rest of us end up either paying higher taxes to support the government or enjoying fewer government services. So the president has good reason to be concerned.

donttread
08-25-2014, 06:41 AM
End taxes on Corporations (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/24/upshot/one-way-to-fix-the-corporate-tax-repeal-it.html?smid=pl-share&_r=2&abt=0002&abg=0)

It is only paid by individuals anyway. Instead of crying about corporations going overseas, end corporate taxes and see corporations leave other countries to come here.

Excellent point

Mainecoons
08-25-2014, 07:17 AM
When people move from states with high taxes and bloated governments (the two go together) they do so for a good reason. Now they are leaving the U.S. for the same good reason. The solution is simple and right in front of everyone's face but of course bloated oppressive government never reforms itself.

Taxes aren't the only problem. Government is making it more and more onerous to employ people in the U.S. That needs to be fixed too.

kilgram
08-25-2014, 07:21 AM
End taxes on Corporations (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/24/upshot/one-way-to-fix-the-corporate-tax-repeal-it.html?smid=pl-share&_r=2&abt=0002&abg=0)

It is only paid by individuals anyway. Instead of crying about corporations going overseas, end corporate taxes and see corporations leave other countries to come here.
And do you think that will stop corporations going oversea? LOL

Peter1469
08-25-2014, 07:23 AM
And do you think that will stop corporations going oversea? LOL

It will bring your corporations here. :smiley:

Your nation is dying anyway.

midcan5
08-25-2014, 09:20 AM
Following along the absurd path of the OP, since corporations are people, we should end taxes on people too, then all the libertarians will go out there and build roads and bridges and insure your saving, and even inspect your food. But some may find it curious that America has had its best days when taxes were the highest. Seems when people, you know like corporation people pay their fair share everyone does well. Isn't that odd?


"There is no historical evidence that tax cuts spur economic growth. The highest period of growth in U.S. history (1933-1973) also saw its highest tax rates on the rich: 70 to 91 percent. During this period, the general tax rate climbed as well, but it reached a plateau in 1969, and growth slowed down five years later. Almost all rich nations have higher general taxes than the U.S., and they are growing faster as well." Tax cuts spur economic growth (http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-taxgrowth.htm)


The Idolatry of Ideology-Why Tax Cuts Hurt the Economy by Russ Beaton (http://www.alternativesmagazine.com/25/beaton.html)
Spending Cuts Vs. Tax Increases at the State Level, 10/30/01 (http://www.cbpp.org/10-30-01sfp.htm)
The rich get rich because of their merit. (http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-richmerit.htm)


"The economic growth that actually followed — indeed, the whole history of the last 20 years — offers one of the most serious challenges to modern conservatism. Bill Clinton and the elder George Bush both raised taxes in the early 1990s, and conservatives predicted disaster. Instead, the economy boomed, and incomes grew at their fastest pace since the 1960s. Then came the younger Mr. Bush, the tax cuts, the disappointing expansion and the worst downturn since the Depression." http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/16/opinion/sunday/do-tax-cuts-lead-to-economic-growth.html

Peter1469
08-25-2014, 09:37 AM
The Fair Tax (http://fairtax.org/)would be the sensible option. Donate to the cause.

Chris
08-25-2014, 10:11 AM
Following along the absurd path of the OP, since corporations are people, we should end taxes on people too, then all the libertarians will go out there and build roads and bridges and insure your saving, and even inspect your food. But some may find it curious that America has had its best days when taxes were the highest. Seems when people, you know like corporation people pay their fair share everyone does well. Isn't that odd?

...

What a wonderful idea, yes, stop taxing people. Texas has no income tax and it's doing fine.

And, yes, roads would go back to being built privately, and would inspections


But some may find it curious that America has had its best days when taxes were the highest.

Can you demonstrate a causal relationship?

kilgram
08-25-2014, 12:20 PM
What a wonderful idea, yes, stop taxing people. Texas has no income tax and it's doing fine.

And, yes, roads would go back to being built privately, and would inspections



Can you demonstrate a causal relationship?
Are you sure Texas is going fine?

Private Pickle
08-25-2014, 12:26 PM
Are you sure Texas is going fine?

Well...it is Texas...

Chris
08-25-2014, 12:28 PM
Are you sure Texas is going fine?

Better than many states, yes. The point though had to do with no state income taxes.

Chris
08-25-2014, 12:30 PM
When people move from states with high taxes and bloated governments (the two go together) they do so for a good reason. Now they are leaving the U.S. for the same good reason. The solution is simple and right in front of everyone's face but of course bloated oppressive government never reforms itself.

Taxes aren't the only problem. Government is making it more and more onerous to employ people in the U.S. That needs to be fixed too.


Yes, taxation is just one form of regulation driving companies away.

PolWatch
08-25-2014, 12:44 PM
Better than many states, yes. The point though had to do with no state income taxes.

I have family in Texas that brag on no income taxes & yet are envious of the low property taxes in Alabama (we have a personal income tax). I suspect it works out.

Mainecoons
08-25-2014, 12:49 PM
The government parasites love it when the debate is about which tax is better instead of the real problem, excessive taxation of all types feeding a bunch of overpaid government workers who gum up and kill prosperity and oppress everyone.

That's the real problem.

The Sage of Main Street
08-25-2014, 02:22 PM
End taxes on Corporations (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/24/upshot/one-way-to-fix-the-corporate-tax-repeal-it.html?smid=pl-share&_r=2&abt=0002&abg=0)

It is only paid by individuals anyway. Instead of crying about corporations going overseas, end corporate taxes and see corporations leave other countries to come here.
The economic treason of companies moving overseas is what should be outlawed. They are just whining; it's not as if they wouldn't make any money if they stayed in America. Since when do we have to give people the unlimited right to make as much money as they can, any way they can?

The Sage of Main Street
08-25-2014, 02:27 PM
Are you sure Texas is going fine? Without 1000% price-gouged oil, Texas would be an economic basket case. We might as well imitate Saudi Arabia if we are going to look to Texas as a role model.

Chris
08-25-2014, 02:28 PM
I have family in Texas that brag on no income taxes & yet are envious of the low property taxes in Alabama (we have a personal income tax). I suspect it works out.

Yea, property taxes are a pain here. That could just be me who hates any tax.

Chris
08-25-2014, 02:29 PM
The government parasites love it when the debate is about which tax is better instead of the real problem, excessive taxation of all types feeding a bunch of overpaid government workers who gum up and kill prosperity and oppress everyone.

That's the real problem.


Or excess spending on things they have no business spending on.

Chris
08-25-2014, 02:31 PM
Without 1000% price-gouged oil, Texas would be an economic basket case. We might as well imitate Saudi Arabia if we are going to look to Texas as a role model.


We're also a decent source of high tech with centers in Dallas, Houston, and the Austin-San Antonio corridor.

Peter1469
08-25-2014, 02:39 PM
The economic treason of companies moving overseas is what should be outlawed. They are just whining; it's not as if they wouldn't make any money if they stayed in America. Since when do we have to give people the unlimited right to make as much money as they can, any way they can?

End corporate taxes- they won't move overseas. Easy.

midcan5
08-26-2014, 06:21 AM
'Oops: The Texas Miracle that Isn't'

Conservative republicans, for the most part, live in a world that never existed and will never exist so long as they put forth policies that are proven useless. But they go on believing and even preaching this fantasy world. So I have to ask and wonder what do they do when faced with reality, a reality that counters their make believe world? Interesting piece below.


'Conservatives say the Lone Star state’s recent record of growth validates their economic agenda. That record crumbles upon inspection.' By Phillip Longman


http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/march_april_may_2014/features/oops_the_texas_miracle_that_is049289.php

zelmo1234
08-26-2014, 06:27 AM
And do you think that will stop corporations going oversea? LOL

Yes, because if I am not paying a large percentage of my profits to the government, and with the increasing cost of shipping it would be cheaper to stay in the USA than move.

I understand that you are what we would call Liberal in the USA and thus you don't understand that companies are in business to make money and not to be a charity to the people.

So you don't see what they would move back tot he USA if the profits were larger. But that is how it works.

zelmo1234
08-26-2014, 06:30 AM
Following along the absurd path of the OP, since corporations are people, we should end taxes on people too, then all the libertarians will go out there and build roads and bridges and insure your saving, and even inspect your food. But some may find it curious that America has had its best days when taxes were the highest. Seems when people, you know like corporation people pay their fair share everyone does well. Isn't that odd?


"There is no historical evidence that tax cuts spur economic growth. The highest period of growth in U.S. history (1933-1973) also saw its highest tax rates on the rich: 70 to 91 percent. During this period, the general tax rate climbed as well, but it reached a plateau in 1969, and growth slowed down five years later. Almost all rich nations have higher general taxes than the U.S., and they are growing faster as well." Tax cuts spur economic growth (http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-taxgrowth.htm)


The Idolatry of Ideology-Why Tax Cuts Hurt the Economy by Russ Beaton (http://www.alternativesmagazine.com/25/beaton.html)
Spending Cuts Vs. Tax Increases at the State Level, 10/30/01 (http://www.cbpp.org/10-30-01sfp.htm)
The rich get rich because of their merit. (http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-richmerit.htm)


"The economic growth that actually followed — indeed, the whole history of the last 20 years — offers one of the most serious challenges to modern conservatism. Bill Clinton and the elder George Bush both raised taxes in the early 1990s, and conservatives predicted disaster. Instead, the economy boomed, and incomes grew at their fastest pace since the 1960s. Then came the younger Mr. Bush, the tax cuts, the disappointing expansion and the worst downturn since the Depression." http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/16/opinion/sunday/do-tax-cuts-lead-to-economic-growth.html

AWWWWWW! Your are stupid.

The reason that corporations are people is because of taxation. Remember Taxation without representation?

And that revolutionary war thing?

The Justices looked at the highest corporate tax rate in the world and decided that corporations cold not be taxed and not allowed to represent themselves.

Or like most liberal's did you not read the decision??

Take away the tax and you can get them out of politics. But you don't understand because leftist use taxes as punishment!

So that is why we have citizens united.

zelmo1234
08-26-2014, 06:35 AM
The economic treason of companies moving overseas is what should be outlawed. They are just whining; it's not as if they wouldn't make any money if they stayed in America. Since when do we have to give people the unlimited right to make as much money as they can, any way they can?

Since we are a Democratic Republic, and not a socialist one.

And they would not make money. You see we allow imports with NO tariff's and that means that they would be undersold by so much that nobody would buy there products.

And of course there are things that the EPA has mad impossible to do in the USA like casting brass for example.

People that make statements like this do not understand business. And are usually the ones that would not pay one cent more for a bade in the USA product.

zelmo1234
08-26-2014, 06:38 AM
Without 1000% price-gouged oil, Texas would be an economic basket case. We might as well imitate Saudi Arabia if we are going to look to Texas as a role model.

And why not? There is fossil fuels under almost every state. We can put the push on exploration and drive the price of that oil down while letting corporations actually increase there profit margin.

just because TX is not stupid and buying into the Green energy garbage? is not their fault.

They are also leaders in cattle (beef) production. they actually build things still in TX because there tax structure is right and they are become a tech center.

Go to TX and look at the building that is going on. And of curse people are moving to TX because there is jobs.

So they have oil, So does MI but it is under the Great lakes and they will not go get it?

zelmo1234
08-26-2014, 06:43 AM
'Oops: The Texas Miracle that Isn't'

Conservative republicans, for the most part, live in a world that never existed and will never exist so long as they put forth policies that are proven useless. But they go on believing and even preaching this fantasy world. So I have to ask and wonder what do they do when faced with reality, a reality that counters their make believe world? Interesting piece below.


'Conservatives say the Lone Star state’s recent record of growth validates their economic agenda. That record crumbles upon inspection.' By Phillip Longman


http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/march_april_may_2014/features/oops_the_texas_miracle_that_is049289.php

Yes because they have more people they have more minimum wage jobs and of course they have the illegal populations to deal with.

But people are still working and the cost of living when compared to NY, CA, IL the liberal bastions of the USA is dramatically lower as is the cost of housing.

That is why people are leaving the liberal states and moving to places like TX, ND, and FL look at the change in the electoral collage if you don't believe me?

That is what the Democrats need amnesty so much to change the vote of the conservative thriving states.

The Sage of Main Street
08-26-2014, 11:08 AM
End corporate taxes- they won't move overseas. Easy. Conformist puppets refuse to listen to solutions that not even the Liberals propose. Their Right Wing talk-show nannies only give them rebuttals to what the Left Wingers do propose.

Peter1469
08-26-2014, 12:14 PM
Conformist puppets refuse to listen to solutions that not even the Liberals propose. Their Right Wing talk-show nannies only give them rebuttals to what the Left Wingers do propose.

Oh!

The Sage of Main Street
08-27-2014, 03:31 PM
Conformist puppets refuse to listen to solutions that not even the Liberals propose. Their Right Wing talk-show nannies only give them rebuttals to what the Left Wingers do propose.


Oh! You're not buying enough vowels to win your Wheel of Fortune. I know you're trying for a lucrative after-retirement job at one of the oil companies whose price-gouging you protect with your irrelevant military strategies, but I wouldn't count on their corruption of the government lasting much longer.

Peter1469
08-27-2014, 03:34 PM
The rational adults will handle things from here on out.

nic34
08-27-2014, 05:12 PM
Value Added Tax (VAT)A value-added tax (http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/encyclopedia/VAT.cfm)
(VAT) is a tax on the sales of goods and services to consumers. However, unlike a traditional retail sales tax that is collected only on final sales to consumers, a VAT is collected from businesses at each stage of the production process. Under the most common form of collection—the credit-invoice method—all sales by businesses are taxable, but firms are able to claim credits for all taxes paid on purchases from other registered businesses. The net result is that business-to-business transactions are untaxed and the tax base is equal to the full value of the final sale to the consumer.

Chris
08-27-2014, 05:17 PM
Value Added Tax (VAT)A value-added tax (http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/encyclopedia/VAT.cfm)
(VAT) is a tax on the sales of goods and services to consumers. However, unlike a traditional retail sales tax that is collected only on final sales to consumers, a VAT is collected from businesses at each stage of the production process. Under the most common form of collection—the credit-invoice method—all sales by businesses are taxable, but firms are able to claim credits for all taxes paid on purchases from other registered businesses. The net result is that business-to-business transactions are untaxed and the tax base is equal to the full value of the final sale to the consumer.

And each value-added tax would only end up making consumers pay higher prices.

nic34
08-27-2014, 05:26 PM
'Oops: The Texas Miracle that Isn't'

Conservative republicans, for the most part, live in a world that never existed and will never exist so long as they put forth policies that are proven useless. But they go on believing and even preaching this fantasy world. So I have to ask and wonder what do they do when faced with reality, a reality that counters their make believe world? Interesting piece below.


'Conservatives say the Lone Star state’s recent record of growth validates their economic agenda. That record crumbles upon inspection.' By Phillip Longman


http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/march_april_may_2014/features/oops_the_texas_miracle_that_is049289.php

More info:

http://www.austinchronicle.com/daily/news/2013-04-15/texas-on-the-brink/

Chris
08-27-2014, 05:51 PM
More info:

http://www.austinchronicle.com/daily/news/2013-04-15/texas-on-the-brink/

Yet Texas does well despite "policies that are proven useless."

Mainecoons
08-27-2014, 06:05 PM
Austin Chronicle.

Austin is like this little island of liberal fools in the middle of Texas.

Love those Austin City Limits, though.

It sure isn't the paradise of a town it was when I went to UT there. Those were the best days of my life.

The Sage of Main Street
08-28-2014, 01:38 PM
Value Added Tax (VAT)

A value-added tax (http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/encyclopedia/VAT.cfm)
(VAT) is a tax on the sales of goods and services to consumers. However, unlike a traditional retail sales tax that is collected only on final sales to consumers, a VAT is collected from businesses at each stage of the production process. Under the most common form of collection—the credit-invoice method—all sales by businesses are taxable, but firms are able to claim credits for all taxes paid on purchases from other registered businesses. The net result is that business-to-business transactions are untaxed and the tax base is equal to the full value of the final sale to the consumer. How is that different from what we have now? Businesses are taxed on their profits, which they get on sales to retailers, who get taxed on their profits to customers, who also pay a sales tax.

Chris
08-28-2014, 01:45 PM
How is that different from what we have now? Businesses are taxed on their profits, which they get on sales to retailers, who get taxed on their profits to customers, who also pay a sales tax.

Way I understand VAT is the manufacturer of the lead, the wood, the paint, the label stamp, the eraser, the metal eraser holder, each would be taxed in addition to the pencil manufacturer, the store and the customer.

Each would of course pass that on to their buyer in higher prices and in the end the customer would pay a lot for just a pencil.

nic34
08-28-2014, 02:51 PM
Who pays?The conventional assumption is that the VAT is passed forward fully in prices and therefore is regressive in effect. This is an oversimplification. Depending on the elasticities of demand and supply, taxes may be shifted to individuals in one or more roles as consumers or factory suppliers. Nonetheless, that the VAT is an imbedded, broad-based tax on sales certainly gives the tax a regressive character. (Even if it is shifted backward, the burden may fall on suppliers of labor rather than of capital.)
With respect to vertical equity, governments frequently exempt items that feature prominently in low-income household budgets, such as food. Whether all food (e.g., in the United Kingdom) or only "essential" food is zero-rated, this favored treatment erodes revenue, creates definition problems, and can lead to costly settling disputes on what is and what is not a taxable item. Moreover, this approach uses the VAT to try to attain distributional ends for which it is ill suited. The VAT is levied primarily for revenue. There are more appropriate strategies for providing budget relief for the poor.

nic34
08-28-2014, 02:53 PM
And each value-added tax would only end up making consumers pay higher prices.

But you also have more take-home as income taxes would no longer be necessary.

Peter1469
08-28-2014, 03:08 PM
You need to end the income tax via a Constitutional amendment. Also the Fair Tax is better than a VAT. It is more transparent.

Chris
08-28-2014, 03:14 PM
Who pays?The conventional assumption is that the VAT is passed forward fully in prices and therefore is regressive in effect. This is an oversimplification. Depending on the elasticities of demand and supply, taxes may be shifted to individuals in one or more roles as consumers or factory suppliers. Nonetheless, that the VAT is an imbedded, broad-based tax on sales certainly gives the tax a regressive character. (Even if it is shifted backward, the burden may fall on suppliers of labor rather than of capital.)
With respect to vertical equity, governments frequently exempt items that feature prominently in low-income household budgets, such as food. Whether all food (e.g., in the United Kingdom) or only "essential" food is zero-rated, this favored treatment erodes revenue, creates definition problems, and can lead to costly settling disputes on what is and what is not a taxable item. Moreover, this approach uses the VAT to try to attain distributional ends for which it is ill suited. The VAT is levied primarily for revenue. There are more appropriate strategies for providing budget relief for the poor.



Elasticities are dynamic and eventually catch up in equilibrium.

Mainecoons
08-28-2014, 03:14 PM
As a Soak The Rich guy Nic you of all people should know that the hated rich spend a much lower portion of their evil wealth on the goods and services taxed by the VAT. That is why it is such a regressive tax.

However, if you confiscate all their wealth first or more likely, drive them out of the country since they are a lot smarter than government and its advocates, a process that is already well underway, I suppose one could argue that those left would be equitably taxed.

Well they would if they had jobs. That can obviously be solved by your progressive ideas as well by having everyone "work" for the government since the rest of the employers have either left or are on welfare.

Didn't the Russians try this already? You probably won't find out from reading the DailyKos.

OK

Chris
08-28-2014, 03:15 PM
But you also have more take-home as income taxes would no longer be necessary.

So you've managed to raise revenues, incomes and prices with a single law. Something is missing there.

Mainecoons
08-28-2014, 03:16 PM
Yeah, reality.

:rofl:

Bob
08-28-2014, 03:39 PM
I have family in Texas that brag on no income taxes & yet are envious of the low property taxes in Alabama (we have a personal income tax). I suspect it works out.

One thing about income, no matter what state you live in, a hundred thousand per year is the same. I notice that Alabama homes are very cheap, even for very large new homes. We can't get a 3,375 sq foot new home at all in CA for $379,000
http://www.zillow.com/homes/Alabama_rb/

And you put up with an enormous amount of rain fall. And the cockroaches drive buses. And the humidity is death taking. I had so much trouble with that humidity.

Your state income taxes top off at 5 percent which is not much different from TX income taxes.

Taxes have to be bundled up then measured to see a true government tax rate.

Separate state from Federal.

Bob
08-28-2014, 03:40 PM
So you've managed to raise revenues, incomes and prices with a single law. Something is missing there.

Read up on velocity of money.

Bob
08-28-2014, 03:46 PM
You need to end the income tax via a Constitutional amendment. Also the Fair Tax is better than a VAT. It is more transparent.

That is entirely correct. A bill has been presented to congress a few times to do that.