Should we blame John f Kennedy for losing two wars?

[Bob]

I see a lot of blaming of G. W Bush by the Democrats but don't they have their own cross to bear?

When Kennedy became president, he bought into the invasion of Cuba. Then he lost the war. And once that happened, he lost to the Soviets. True he got the missiles out, but to this very day. Cuba is not friends with the USA nor does the USA allow visits there or trade with them.

Kennedy installed many US Forces, "boots on the ground" in Vietnam. Some claim he would soon leave, but this is also true about G.W. Bush.

Bush too planned to simply remove two dictatorships from two countries then come back home. Some ask why Bush had not put a lot of troops in both countries. This is very easy to explain. Bush was not interested in wars. He wanted to quickly free two countries and felt it was then up to them to govern and protect themselves.

If Bush must bear what Obama has allowed in two countries in the ME, of course Kennedy must be blamed for losing two wars.

We to this day live with his failure to free Cuba though it is merely 90 miles from our soil and we easily could have freed Cuba.

[PolWatch]

if you want to blame a president for the Bay of Pigs, you have to include the original planner: 'The U.S. government of President Dwight D. Eisenhower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_D._Eisenhower) was concerned at the direction which Castro's government was taking, and in March 1960, Eisenhower allocated $13.1 million to the CIA in order to plan Castro's overthrow. The CIA proceeded to organize the operation with the aid of various Cuban counter-revolutionary forces, training Brigade 2506 in Mexico. Following his election in 1960, president John F. Kennedy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy) was informed of the invasion plan and gave his consent.'

Viet Nam? ' U.S. Sends Troops to Vietnam (1965): In response to the Gulf of Tonkin Incident of August 2 and 4, 1964, President Lyndon B. Johnson, per the authority given to him by Congress in the subsequent Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, decided to escalate the Vietnam Conflict by sending U.S. ground troops to Vietnam. On March 8, 1965, 3,500 U.S. Marines landed near Da Nang in South Vietnam; they are the first U.S. troops arrive in Vietnam.'

[Redrose]

If we look backwards we will see there is plenty of blame to go around. We need to concentrate on the bozo in power now. He's feckless, an abject failure on all levels. His failed strategy has allowed ISIL to grow, flourish, strengthen. ISIL is a major problem for us, and Obama is responsible for allowing it.

[Libhater]

If we look backwards we will see there is plenty of blame to go around. We need to concentrate on the bozo in power now. He's feckless, an abject failure on all levels. His failed strategy has allowed ISIL to grow, flourish, strengthen. ISIL is a major problem for us, and Obama is responsible for allowing it.


Exactly! Bush left Iraq with plenty of American support there to help the Iraqis maintain their nation. But when Obama took all American personnel out of Iraq....the ISIS movement has and is having a field day moving across Iraq capturing one city after another and posing a major threat to the ME area as well as to America through our porous borders. There are more and more people across both parties and across the nation who are asking for an Obama resignation. This guy is so fucking clueless and so dangerous to our American sovereignty that we can't even joke about it anymore.

[sachem]

I see a lot of blaming of G. W Bush by the Democrats but don't they have their own cross to bear?

When Kennedy became president, he bought into the invasion of Cuba. Then he lost the war. And once that happened, he lost to the Soviets. True he got the missiles out, but to this very day. Cuba is not friends with the USA nor does the USA allow visits there or trade with them.

Kennedy installed many US Forces, "boots on the ground" in Vietnam. Some claim he would soon leave, but this is also true about G.W. Bush.

Bush too planned to simply remove two dictatorships from two countries then come back home. Some ask why Bush had not put a lot of troops in both countries. This is very easy to explain. Bush was not interested in wars. He wanted to quickly free two countries and felt it was then up to them to govern and protect themselves.

If Bush must bear what Obama has allowed in two countries in the ME, of course Kennedy must be blamed for losing two wars.

We to this day live with his failure to free Cuba though it is merely 90 miles from our soil and we easily could have freed Cuba.Free Cuba? Half the island lives in South Florida or play in MLB.

Kennedy was over rated. As are most Presidents.

[del]

how's george's duodenum looking today, bob?

still clear?

[momsapplepie]

if you want to blame a president for the Bay of Pigs, you have to include the original planner: 'The U.S. government of President Dwight D. Eisenhower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_D._Eisenhower) was concerned at the direction which Castro's government was taking, and in March 1960, Eisenhower allocated $13.1 million to the CIA in order to plan Castro's overthrow. The CIA proceeded to organize the operation with the aid of various Cuban counter-revolutionary forces, training Brigade 2506 in Mexico. Following his election in 1960, president John F. Kennedy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy) was informed of the invasion plan and gave his consent.'

Viet Nam? ' U.S. Sends Troops to Vietnam (1965): In response to the Gulf of Tonkin Incident of August 2 and 4, 1964, President Lyndon B. Johnson, per the authority given to him by Congress in the subsequent Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, decided to escalate the Vietnam Conflict by sending U.S. ground troops to Vietnam. On March 8, 1965, 3,500 U.S. Marines landed near Da Nang in South Vietnam; they are the first U.S. troops arrive in Vietnam.'


So this means the war in Iraq is Clinton's fault since he is the one who signed a mandate for regime change in Iraq? Sounds about right to me.

[PolWatch]

So this means the war in Iraq is Clinton's fault since he is the one who signed a mandate for regime change in Iraq? Sounds about right to me.

there is enough blame to go around to all of 'em.....

[Bob]

if you want to blame a president for the Bay of Pigs, you have to include the original planner: 'The U.S. government of President Dwight D. Eisenhower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_D._Eisenhower) was concerned at the direction which Castro's government was taking, and in March 1960, Eisenhower allocated $13.1 million to the CIA in order to plan Castro's overthrow. The CIA proceeded to organize the operation with the aid of various Cuban counter-revolutionary forces, training Brigade 2506 in Mexico. Following his election in 1960, president John F. Kennedy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy) was informed of the invasion plan and gave his consent.'

Viet Nam? ' U.S. Sends Troops to Vietnam (1965): In response to the Gulf of Tonkin Incident of August 2 and 4, 1964, President Lyndon B. Johnson, per the authority given to him by Congress in the subsequent Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, decided to escalate the Vietnam Conflict by sending U.S. ground troops to Vietnam. On March 8, 1965, 3,500 U.S. Marines landed near Da Nang in South Vietnam; they are the first U.S. troops arrive in Vietnam.'

To point 1. Kennedy promised a new way to govern. He as president was not obligated to invade Cuba, much less use a failure program.

You shift blame from one democrat to another as to Vietnam. Would Johnson have invaded Vietnam had the special forces not been so prevalent?

Anyway, a lot of people blame plenty of people for Vietnam but a general mood seems that since Kennedy was killed, just give him a free pass.

I am very happy I was not sent to Vietnam by Kennedy and was home and discharged when Johnson pulled that bone headed deal.

[Bob]

If we look backwards we will see there is plenty of blame to go around. We need to concentrate on the bozo in power now. He's feckless, an abject failure on all levels. His failed strategy has allowed ISIL to grow, flourish, strengthen. ISIL is a major problem for us, and Obama is responsible for allowing it.

Well, I wanted to blame Kennedy a bit. LOL

As to Obama, of course he is a loose cannon. Today it comes out he wants to insert US troops into Ukraine calling it training. We have plenty of places right now for any and all forms of training.

I heard last night that Poroshenko ordered a permanent cease fire. An hour later, the report said he was only thinking about it.

[Cigar]

WE WERE ALL WARNED

http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-you-break-it-you-own-it-colin-powell-260215.jpg (http://izquotes.com/quote/260215)

[Cigar]

I see a lot of blaming of G. W Bush by the Democrats but don't they have their own cross to bear?

When Kennedy became president, he bought into the invasion of Cuba. Then he lost the war. And once that happened, he lost to the Soviets. True he got the missiles out, but to this very day. Cuba is not friends with the USA nor does the USA allow visits there or trade with them.

Kennedy installed many US Forces, "boots on the ground" in Vietnam. Some claim he would soon leave, but this is also true about G.W. Bush.

Bush too planned to simply remove two dictatorships from two countries then come back home. Some ask why Bush had not put a lot of troops in both countries. This is very easy to explain. Bush was not interested in wars. He wanted to quickly free two countries and felt it was then up to them to govern and protect themselves.

If Bush must bear what Obama has allowed in two countries in the ME, of course Kennedy must be blamed for losing two wars.

We to this day live with his failure to free Cuba though it is merely 90 miles from our soil and we easily could have freed Cuba.


When are you going to stop covering for the Biggest Lie in American History

http://i.stack.imgur.com/jiFfM.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&docid=7g1NIwAHF321VM&tbnid=4N5DJ744xVTZlM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.religionnews.com%2F2014%2F08% 2F07%2Fislamic-state-accused-capturing-yazidi-women-forcing-convert-else%2F&ei=4FoHVPrJOdP9yQSkz4KACQ&bvm=bv.74115972,d.aWw&psig=AFQjCNHoUVcn0WqUuCSfHtaW9Dxn6rI_hA&ust=1409854558095816)

[Bob]

how's george's duodenum looking today, bob?

still clear?

Great.

Now, report to us about Obama. Same problem.

[Cigar]

Great.

Now, report to us about Obama. Same problem.


Obama never once declared War on anyone ... he's spent the last 6 years cleaning up George W Bush's shit

[Matty]

Oh bullshit. He's not up to the job. Plain and simple.

[Bob]

I read every post that deflected from the topic. Kennedy vs Bush is the real topic and public perception of both.

[Cigar]

Oh bullshit. He's not up to the job. Plain and simple.

yea ... he doesn't shoot for the hip like a cowboy ... :rollseyes:

[Cigar]

I read every post that deflected from the topic. Kennedy vs Bush is the real topic and public perception of both.


One of the two showed restraint and forthought ... that's a documented fact.

[Bob]

Obama never once declared War on anyone ... he's spent the last 6 years cleaning up George W Bush's shit

Keep telling yourself that.

[Cigar]

Keep telling yourself that.


Ok .. then prove me wrong sport :wink:

[Bob]

One of the two showed restraint and forthought ... that's a documented fact.

I was an adult during Kennedy. I don't recall it that way.

That is not how to measure presidents anyway.

Even though the public wanted Bush to attack Afthanistan in the worst possible way, Bush used Afghan people to do the fighting. Brilliant plan.

Bush, unlike Kennedy actually did stick to a plan to free Iraq (Kennedy =Cuba). Bush was very decisive. However even there, he spent a long time working things out and giving Saddam a lot of chances to shape up or leave. Clinton set things up to remove Saddam by a public law.

[Bob]

Ok .. then prove me wrong sport :wink:

We called it war when the Japs bombed Pearl Harbor.

And you won't call it war when Obama bombs the hell out of a number of countries?

How lame.

[Bob]

yea ... he doesn't shoot for the hip like a cowboy ... :rollseyes:

Obama is a stumble bum unable to make a decision in any reasonable period of time.

[Cigar]

Congratulations Republicans - I am blaming you for a large portion of what is going on in the WorldA large portion - not everything.....

When the President of the United States sets foreign policy and then McCain and his boy-toy Lindsay travel around the globe, talking to world leaders bashing that very President - yeah - I blame you if those leaders do not take the President's words seriously.

Prime example - Israel. Obama put his foot down, said he wanted to go back to the 1967 borders - OMG! The right wing FLIPPED out!
There goes old man grumpy and his mistress off to Israel, not to stand with the democratically elected President but to tell Netanyahu - no worries, don't listen to President Obama. Any wonder why Bibi publicly endorsed Romney for President?

Let's talk about Putin. He's a REAL leader, unlike our President. Our President is weak (Lindsay on CNN). Mike Rogers - Putin is playing chess while our President is playing marbles. I betcha that was music to Putin's ears knowing how much he was idolized by the Republican Party.

When Obama said Syria had crossed the line - but he was going to follow the Constitution to have Congress do their job and authorize Military Options - there weren't the votes there for it to pass. And NOW they go on all the news shows pointing to this, how the President said Syria crossed the line but didn't do anything about it. That makes him weak.
Sorry - that is not how the story went. Not to mention that President Obama got what he wanted WITHOUT starting another war - sorry Johnny.

And now let's talk about Isis. Other than the tan suit, the only other thing they got out of the President's press conference was that he said he had no plan, no strategy when what he was saying was they are looking at all options and when they do have a strategy to move forward, it will be brought to Congress Kinda has a different meaning - ya think? Kinda has a different meaning - ya think?
But that's only half of it. They are on every single cable news show, radio show saying the President has no strategy to deal with Isis. I'm sure leaders of Isis are enjoying every second of this. Do you think anyone in the world would have picked up on that portion of a sentence if the rw wackos weren't running around screaming about it? Oh and why can't President Obama be more like David Cameron - he's a real leader, our President wears mom jeans and tan suits.... never once connecting the dots that the man in the black head covering is British and that there is no Ocean between the UK and Syria.

When Dubya was in office we were scolded for being anti-American for questioning him. Dixie Chicks, anyone? It was so extreme. But that was just us - the bloggers, the DUers and the like. There was no one in the Press questioning what the cowboy was doing because it would make us look weak. And if anyone dared question that administration on our teevees, bamm - bye - here's the door, Phil Donahue.

You want to debate what to do about Isis? Putin? Korea? Israel? Fine - Then have a debate BUT belittling the President of the United States 24/7 on every single "news" channel is NOT a debate. Going to foreign countries and telling leaders of foreign countries that they don't have to listen to the President is NOT a debate. Pointing your fat fingers at the President for what is going on in the world while you try to end Obamacare for the 50th time is NOT a debate.

So when Netanyahu doesn't listen, and Putin ignores and Isis captures another American - yeah - I blame you Republicans. You have worked so hard to try and make our President be a failure that you didn't think for a second that if the President fails, America fails.
Somethings are bigger than politics.

I am thankful that Obama is our President, especially when it comes to foreign affairs.

History will show who was really responcible

Shoot first and ask questions later only brings us Isis.

[Matty]

Fuck that. For six years you and bozo have done nothing but belittle Republicans. Don't like it? Don't dish it.

[Common Sense]

Grade school logic, alive and well...

[Common Sense]

In Kennedy's defense, he didn't exactly get to finish his term.

[Cigar]

Fuck that. For six years you and bozo have done nothing but belittle Republicans. Don't like it? Don't dish it.


Please Explain This ....

Eric Cantor, Paul Ryan & Kevin McCarthy: Plot To Sabotage US Economy with Frank Luntz (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/08/1098434/-Eric-Cantor-Paul-Ryan-Kevin-McCarthy-Plot-To-Sabotage-US-Economy-with-Frank-Luntz)
On January 20, 2009 Republican Leaders in Congress literally plotted to sabotage and undermine U.S. Economy during President Obama's Inauguration.


In Robert Draper's book, "Do Not Ask What Good We Do: Inside the U.S. House of Representatives" Draper wrote that during a four hour, "invitation only" meeting with GOP Hate-Propaganda Minister, Frank Luntz, the below listed Senior GOP Law Writers literally plotted to sabotage, undermine and destroy America's Economy.

The Guest List:
Frank Luntz - GOP Minister of Propaganda
Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI)
Rep. Eric Cantor (R-VA)
Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-CA),
Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX),
Rep. Jeb Hensarling (R-TX),
Rep. Pete Hoekstra (R-MI)
Rep. Dan Lungren (R-CA),
Sen. Jim DeMint (SC-R),
Sen. Jon Kyl (AZ-R),
Sen. Tom Coburn (OK-R),
Sen. John Ensign (NV-R) and
Sen. Bob Corker (TN-R).
Non-lawmakers present Newt Gingrich

During the four hour meeting:
The senior GOP members plotted to bring Congress to a standstill regardless how much it would hurt the American Economy by pledging to obstruct and block President Obama on alllegislation.


These Republican members of Congress were not simply airing their complaints regarding the other party's political platform for four long hours. No, these Republican Congressional Policymakers, who were elected to do 'the People's work' were literally plotting to sabotage, undermine and destroy the U.S. Economy.


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/08/1098434/-Eric-Cantor-Paul-Ryan-Kevin-McCarthy-Plot-To-Sabotage-US-Economy-with-Frank-Luntz




This was "before" Barack Obama spent his first night in The White House

So when ANYONE tell the LIE that it's Obama's policies they don't like, not his color ... that's Bull Shit.

It because he's Black ... you know that's true .

[Cigar]

Obama is a stumble bum unable to make a decision in any reasonable period of time.

That's because he's not on your schedule :laugh:

[del]

Great.

Now, report to us about Obama. Same problem.

i have little use for obama; he's not much different than bush.

try harder, bobby

[del]

Obama is a stumble bum unable to make a decision in any reasonable period of time.

better than making the wrong decisions quickly

[Cigar]

I was an adult during Kennedy. I don't recall it that way.

That is not how to measure presidents anyway.

Even though the public wanted Bush to attack Afthanistan in the worst possible way, Bush used Afghan people to do the fighting. Brilliant plan.

Bush, unlike Kennedy actually did stick to a plan to free Iraq (Kennedy =Cuba). Bush was very decisive. However even there, he spent a long time working things out and giving Saddam a lot of chances to shape up or leave. Clinton set things up to remove Saddam by a public law.


I wasn't an Adult then ... and history as I know it, is we didn't get into a 10 year war.

You know different?

[Redrose]

In Kennedy's defense, he didn't exactly get to finish his term.

Kennedy brought us closer to nuclear war than any other president in modern times. He and Bobby were riding on a high of power. I remember October, 1962 very well. People were sweating blood. Too, too close.

Kennedy died, then LBJ, a REAL cowboy, escalated Viet Nam.

Wilson...Democrat...Progressive...WWI

FDR....Democrat...WWII

JFK/LBJ...Democrats....Viet Nam

Bushes...Middle East Wars

Clinton...rolled over and played dead...except under the desk in the Oval Office.

Obama....indecisive on the Middle East...inadvertently allowing it to escalate.


There is enough blame to go around for the past 50 years, but we are here, now, facing a deadly crazed menace. What do we do now?