Who warned us by saying this?

[texan]

"I know some in Washington would like us to start leaving Iraq now. To begin withdrawing before our commanders tell us we are ready would be dangerous for Iraq, for the region, and for the United States. It would mean surrendering the future of Iraq to al Qaeda. It would mean that we’d be risking mass killings on a horrific scale. It would mean we’d allow the terrorists to establish a safe haven in Iraq to replace the one they lost in Afghanistan. It would mean increasing the probability that American troops would have to return at some later date to confront an enemy that is even more dangerous."

[Peter1469]

link

[del]

that asshole bush who didn't have the brains to stay the fuck out in the first place

next?

[Cigar]

"I know some in Washington would like us to start leaving Iraq now. To begin withdrawing before our commanders tell us we are ready would be dangerous for Iraq, for the region, and for the United States. It would mean surrendering the future of Iraq to al Qaeda. It would mean that we’d be risking mass killings on a horrific scale. It would mean we’d allow the terrorists to establish a safe haven in Iraq to replace the one they lost in Afghanistan. It would mean increasing the probability that American troops would have to return at some later date to confront an enemy that is even more dangerous."


We where Warned

http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-you-break-it-you-own-it-colin-powell-260215.jpg (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3087644/posts)

[Libhater]

Pretty sure it was the Hilabeast.

[Matty]

President Bush said it. And we won't go through why again. Assholes lefties are too damn stupid to get it.

[del]

yeah, the mideast is soooo much more stable now

we should go back

[Cigar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=XzrJwzYBUkU

[keymanjim]

yeah, the middle east is soooo much more stable now

we should go back
If you want it to be stable then you need to remove the destabilizing element.

[del]

If you want it to be stable then you need to remove the destabilizing element.

if the asshat bush had stayed the fuck out, there'd be no need.

if the shitheads in congress had told him to pound sand, there'd be no need.

next?

[keymanjim]

if the asshat bush had stayed the fuck out, there'd be no need.

if the shitheads in congress had told him to pound sand, there'd be no need.

next?
If the shitheads in congress didn't pound the war drums long before Bush became president......
But, hey. Maybe we should have let saddam thumb his nose at the UN and keep collection materials for nuclear weapons.
That would have made the world a much better place, right?

[Alyosha]

If the shitheads in congress didn't pound the war drums long before Bush became president......
But, hey. Maybe we should have let saddam thumb his nose at the UN and keep collection materials for nuclear weapons.
That would have made the world a much better place, right?


Because at the time China wasn't doing the same to its people and minorities, not to mention it has nukes....don't feed me we cared that Saddam had WMDs (the recipes were from us) and was a brutal dictator so we had to go crap when we saw China killing girl babies, torturing dissidents, starving out whole towns along the yellow mountains, and looked the other way to give them favored nation trading status.

This was about the CFR white paper from 1997.

Anyway, I have to go but love that signature line. I'd be threadbanned and confined to the Hole for breaking the rules. I guess you're special.

[Redrose]

yeah, the mideast is soooo much more stable now

we should go back


No, we need to go back and finish what Bush started....drop a BIG bomb on 'em. Make it one huge crater. They want to hack people up, behead babies, we can blow their asses to hell. No boots on the ground, just a nice big bomb from a nice big plane. Then we can tell the UN to go screw themselves and the EU that is too weak to defend themselves. These heathens want to live in the dark ages, we can blow them the hell back there. Who would miss them? Maybe the porn industry will miss the men. Maybe factories that make black fabric will miss them. Seriously, what freaking good do they do? Cut the head off of the snake. Then we can deal with the pockets of nuts here, without backing from the ME, they will cease to exist. I'm done with all the wishy washy BS coming out of DC.

[protectionist]

No, we need to go back and finish what Bush started....drop a BIG bomb on 'em. Make it one huge crater. They want to hack people up, behead babies, we can blow their asses to hell. No boots on the ground, just a nice big bomb from a nice big plane. Then we can tell the UN to go screw themselves and the EU that is too weak to defend themselves. These heathens want to live in the dark ages, we can blow them the hell back there. Who would miss them? Maybe the porn industry will miss the men. Maybe factories that make black fabric will miss them. Seriously, what freaking good do they do? Cut the head off of the snake. Then we can deal with the pockets of nuts here, without backing from the ME, they will cease to exist. I'm done with all the wishy washy BS coming out of DC.

I like your style. YOU ROCK!!!

[donttread]

"I know some in Washington would like us to start leaving Iraq now. To begin withdrawing before our commanders tell us we are ready would be dangerous for Iraq, for the region, and for the United States. It would mean surrendering the future of Iraq to al Qaeda. It would mean that we’d be risking mass killings on a horrific scale. It would mean we’d allow the terrorists to establish a safe haven in Iraq to replace the one they lost in Afghanistan. It would mean increasing the probability that American troops would have to return at some later date to confront an enemy that is even more dangerous."

Who said "Iraq is a quagmire"?

[Codename Section]

No, we need to go back and finish what Bush started....drop a BIG bomb on 'em. Make it one huge crater. They want to hack people up, behead babies, we can blow their asses to hell. No boots on the ground, just a nice big bomb from a nice big plane. Then we can tell the UN to go screw themselves and the EU that is too weak to defend themselves. These heathens want to live in the dark ages, we can blow them the hell back there. Who would miss them? Maybe the porn industry will miss the men. Maybe factories that make black fabric will miss them. Seriously, what freaking good do they do? Cut the head off of the snake. Then we can deal with the pockets of nuts here, without backing from the ME, they will cease to exist. I'm done with all the wishy washy BS coming out of DC.


Why?

When you're done with why we'd kill every man, woman, and child in Iraq to get to ISIS can you explain why you think that will stop new suicide bombers from being created?

[Mac-7]

Why?

When you're done with why we'd kill every man, woman, and child in Iraq to get to ISIS can you explain why you think that will stop new suicide bombers from being created?

I think you are engaging in gross over simplification.

compare it to nazi Germany and imagine anyone in Britain or America arguing that we need to just ignore hitler.

Isis can and should be fought for our sake and for everyone else in the world.

But that does not mean we alone have to commit what little remans of our military to do it by ourself.

[Common Sense]

No, we need to go back and finish what Bush started....drop a BIG bomb on 'em. Make it one huge crater. They want to hack people up, behead babies, we can blow their asses to hell. No boots on the ground, just a nice big bomb from a nice big plane. Then we can tell the UN to go screw themselves and the EU that is too weak to defend themselves. These heathens want to live in the dark ages, we can blow them the hell back there. Who would miss them? Maybe the porn industry will miss the men. Maybe factories that make black fabric will miss them. Seriously, what freaking good do they do? Cut the head off of the snake. Then we can deal with the pockets of nuts here, without backing from the ME, they will cease to exist. I'm done with all the wishy washy BS coming out of DC.

This post is insanity...You want to bomb a civilian population into oblivion? It's this sort of irrational thinking that makes this world such a shitty place sometimes.

[del]

If the shitheads in congress didn't pound the war drums long before Bush became president......
But, hey. Maybe we should have let saddam thumb his nose at the UN and keep collection materials for nuclear weapons.
That would have made the world a much better place, right?

couldn't have made it much worse than it is now

get back under your bed

[Codename Section]

I think you are engaging in gross over simplification.

I wasn't the one saying to kill everyone. Why am I the "over simplification" here?




compare it to nazi Germany and imagine anyone in Britain or America arguing that we need to just ignore hitler.


lol, spoken like a true neocon-- we want war, therefore appeasement! WWII ... Hitler...concentration camps...must ramp up war machine.

Talk about over-simplification.

[del]

I wasn't the one saying to kill everyone. Why am I the "over simplification" here?



lol, spoken like a true neocon-- we want war, therefore appeasement! WWII ... Hitler...concentration camps...must ramp up war machine.

Talk about over-simplification.

do you deny the yellow cake that saddam was importing from the sudetenland?

:rolleyes: lol

[Mac-7]

I wasn't the one saying to kill everyone. Why am I the "over simplification" here?



lol, spoken like a true neocon-- we want war, therefore appeasement! WWII ... Hitler...concentration camps...must ramp up war machine.

Talk about over-simplification.

I don't want war but that appears to be the coming attraction whether you like it or not.

you cannot ignore these Muslims any more than FDR was able to ignore hitler and Tojo.

[Bob]

How many ways can we explain how incompetent Obama is but to contrast him to Bush.

Bush turns out was completely correct.

http://www.inquisitr.com/1453870/president-bushs-predicted-in-2007-with-frightening-accuracy-what-is-happening-today-in-iraq/

“I know some in Washington would like us to start leaving Iraq now. To begin withdrawing before our commanders tell us we are ready would be dangerous for Iraq, for the region, and for the United States. It would mean surrendering the future of Iraq to al Qaeda. It would mean that we’d be risking mass killings on a horrific scale. It would mean we’d allow the terrorists to establish a safe haven in Iraq to replace the one they lost in Afghanistan. It would mean increasing the probability that American troops would have to return at some later date to confront an enemy that is even more dangerous.”
Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/1453870/president-bushs-predicted-in-2007-with-frightening-accuracy-what-is-happening-today-in-iraq/#p77tGFtATbsPVRex.99

Using the link, you are given a video showing what Bush predicted.

I keep saying Bush's purpose was to FREE Iraq, then they would create a government of their choosing.

Watch early in the Video where Bush clearly makes those points.

[Bob]

that asshole bush who didn't have the brains to stay the fuck out in the first place

next?

You are not a fan of freedom, period.

[Bob]

No, we need to go back and finish what Bush started....drop a BIG bomb on 'em. Make it one huge crater. They want to hack people up, behead babies, we can blow their asses to hell. No boots on the ground, just a nice big bomb from a nice big plane. Then we can tell the UN to go screw themselves and the EU that is too weak to defend themselves. These heathens want to live in the dark ages, we can blow them the hell back there. Who would miss them? Maybe the porn industry will miss the men. Maybe factories that make black fabric will miss them. Seriously, what freaking good do they do? Cut the head off of the snake. Then we can deal with the pockets of nuts here, without backing from the ME, they will cease to exist. I'm done with all the wishy washy BS coming out of DC.

You are talking Obama here. The man is no commander in chief. He has the acumen of a turtle.

[Mainecoons]

You are not a fan of freedom, period.

After Bush broke the place, how free was Iraq with its constant war between the factions?

How free are you if you can't go to market without standing a very good chance of being blown up by one side or the other?

[Bob]

Well darn
This Am I posted the full story along with what Bush said and gave a link. Don't know why the op did not post the link to the video. (see Bush was 100 percent correct)

[Mainecoons]

Didn't work so hot, did it?

You're another one who keeps forgetting it was the Iraqis wanting the U.S. to get out sooner rather than later.

[Private Pickle]

The idea was correct. The execution was a cluster fuck of epic proportions...

[Cigar]

Naturally :rollseyes:

http://photos-ak.sparkpeople.com/nw/3/4/l340971357.jpg (http://www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_journal_individual.asp?blog_id=47798 13)

[Cigar]

Didn't work so hot, did it?

You're another one who keeps forgetting it was the Iraqis wanting the U.S. to get out sooner rather than later.

http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/does-somebody-need-a-hug.png (http://www.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/p/does-somebody-need-a-hug/)

[Mainecoons]

The idea was correct. The execution was a cluster fuck of epic proportions...

Everything the U.S. government does these days fits that description.

[Cigar]

How many ways can we explain how incompetent Obama is but to contrast him to Bush.

Bush turns out was completely correct.

http://www.inquisitr.com/1453870/president-bushs-predicted-in-2007-with-frightening-accuracy-what-is-happening-today-in-iraq/

“I know some in Washington would like us to start leaving Iraq now. To begin withdrawing before our commanders tell us we are ready would be dangerous for Iraq, for the region, and for the United States. It would mean surrendering the future of Iraq to al Qaeda. It would mean that we’d be risking mass killings on a horrific scale. It would mean we’d allow the terrorists to establish a safe haven in Iraq to replace the one they lost in Afghanistan. It would mean increasing the probability that American troops would have to return at some later date to confront an enemy that is even more dangerous.”
Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/1453870/president-bushs-predicted-in-2007-with-frightening-accuracy-what-is-happening-today-in-iraq/#p77tGFtATbsPVRex.99

Using the link, you are given a video showing what Bush predicted.

I keep saying Bush's purpose was to FREE Iraq, then they would create a government of their choosing.

Watch early in the Video where Bush clearly makes those points.

http://thelibertycaucus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/george-bush-iraq.jpg (http://thelibertycaucus.com/president-bush-still-unapologetic/)

[Cigar]

Everything the U.S. government does these days fits that description.


Quick Pivot :laugh:

[Codename Section]

I don't want war but that appears to be the coming attraction whether you like it or not.

you cannot ignore these Muslims any more than FDR was able to ignore hitler and Tojo.

This is not WWII and you can't fight a distributed network like a centralized power. This is why we will once more only grow more terrorists.

How do you fight terrorists spread out across the globe by pounding one country with weapons? Please, explain that one.

[Private Pickle]

do you deny the yellow cake that saddam was importing from the sudetenland?

:rolleyes: lol

You know we found yellow cake in Iraq right?

[Mac-7]

I wasn't the one saying to kill everyone. Why am I the "over simplification" here?



lol, spoken like a true neocon-- we want war, therefore appeasement! WWII ... Hitler...concentration camps...must ramp up war machine.

Talk about over-simplification.


This is not WWII and you can't fight a distributed network like a centralized power. This is why we will once more only grow more terrorists.

How do you fight terrorists spread out across the globe by pounding one country with weapons? Please, explain that one.

isis is an organized military force occupying parts of iraq and Syria.

you pound them till they are no longer an organized military force.

[Animal Mother]

You know we found yellow cake in Iraq right?

You know we didn't find usable amounts and didn't find them until way into the invasion over yellowcake, right? You know it was a bullshit reason to go to war, right? Which is why they changed it to being about "freedom" because even tptb knew it was bullshit.

[Animal Mother]

isis is an organized military force occupying parts of iraq and Syria.

ISIS is part of a decentralized network expanding over the near east and routinely works with AQ on operations and passing "intelligence" back and forth. There is a semi-organized network in Iraq but as you can see from how they are doing against the Kurds they are not as organized as you think.




you pound them till they are no longer an organized military force.

How do you do that? Seriously, man. I want to know. Then what do you think will happen when all the British, Swede and Americans who identify with ISIS see that happening and then what will you do about them?

[donttread]

How many ways can we explain how incompetent Obama is but to contrast him to Bush.

Bush turns out was completely correct.

http://www.inquisitr.com/1453870/president-bushs-predicted-in-2007-with-frightening-accuracy-what-is-happening-today-in-iraq/

“I know some in Washington would like us to start leaving Iraq now. To begin withdrawing before our commanders tell us we are ready would be dangerous for Iraq, for the region, and for the United States. It would mean surrendering the future of Iraq to al Qaeda. It would mean that we’d be risking mass killings on a horrific scale. It would mean we’d allow the terrorists to establish a safe haven in Iraq to replace the one they lost in Afghanistan. It would mean increasing the probability that American troops would have to return at some later date to confront an enemy that is even more dangerous.”
Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/1453870/president-bushs-predicted-in-2007-with-frightening-accuracy-what-is-happening-today-in-iraq/#p77tGFtATbsPVRex.99

Using the link, you are given a video showing what Bush predicted.

I keep saying Bush's purpose was to FREE Iraq, then they would create a government of their choosing.

Watch early in the Video where Bush clearly makes those points.

Are you serious

[Redrose]

Why?

When you're done with why we'd kill every man, woman, and child in Iraq to get to ISIS can you explain why you think that will stop new suicide bombers from being created?

It won't, but that shouldn't stop us from stopping them. With psycho religious fanatics that want to die to get to their reward, we can only deal with them with by killing them. Innocents always die in wars and conflicts, and these nuts are raising their children to hate everyone who believes differently from them, unfortunately the children are the next generation of terrorists and the women are mindless puppets doing the bidding of the men out of fear, ignorance or both. Diplomacy isn't working with these barbaric nuts.

Don't get me wrong, I hate war, many in my own family would be called to defend us, I have lost friends in war, it sucks, but we have reached a point where it's time to shit or get off the pot. The American people need to be protected by their government. Sure there are plenty of us who have the ability to defend our homes, our families, but there are more that cannot. They shouldn't have to live in fear knowing terrorism is headed our way.....soon.

[Green Arrow]

Bush was also 100% wrong in choosing to invade and occupy Iraq in the first place. And yes, so were all the Democrats like Hillary that supported the war.

[Redrose]

http://thelibertycaucus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/george-bush-iraq.jpg (http://thelibertycaucus.com/president-bush-still-unapologetic/)

That will be considered chump change compared with what's coming our way. Bush was wrong for not hitting them with everything we had. We wounded them, but they recovered and Obama's soft, passive approach allowed them to thrive. My guess is they will use germ warfare to hurt us. They want big numbers.

We tried attacking them, (Bush) Fail
We tried diplomacy, (Obama) Fail

Now we need a different approach, annihilate them, leave no remnant to grow and reconstitute.

[The Xl]

The notion of us leaving early as the problem is hilarious when you consider our invasion was the problem in the first place.

[The Xl]

Bush was also 100% wrong in choosing to invade and occupy Iraq in the first place. And yes, so were all the Democrats like Hillary that supported the war.

Ding, ding, ding, winner.

[The Xl]

You are not a fan of freedom, period.

I hope this was a sarcastic post. I really hope so.

[Redrose]

Bush 41 started in 1991 to defend ally Kuwait and keep oil interests out of Saddam's control.

Bush 43 retaliated for 9-11-01

Obama entered and tried civil diplomacy, and the problem escalated.

Bush 41 inadvertently set the house ablaze.

Bush 43 put fuel on the fire.

Obama shows up and allows it to burn.

They are all responsible for the mess we're in.

Now we must figure out how to deal with the mess. Don't look back placing blame, look forward to solve problems.

[Green Arrow]

Bush 41 started in 1991 to defend ally Kuwait and keep oil interests out of Saddam's control.

Bush 43 retaliated for 9-11-01

Obama entered and tried civil diplomacy, and the problem escalated.

Bush 41 inadvertently set the house ablaze.

Bush 43 put fuel on the fire.

Obama shows up and allows it to burn.

They are all responsible for the mess we're in.

Now we must figure out how to deal with the mess. Don't look back placing blame, look forward to solve problems.

Funny, this whole "don't pass blame" message has been utterly absent until people (rightfully) acknowledged that what happened is the result of decades of bad foreign policy.

Still, I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth. I agree. It's time we started talking solutions.

[Dark Mistress]

How many ways can we explain how incompetent Obama is but to contrast him to Bush.

Bush turns out was completely correct.

http://www.inquisitr.com/1453870/president-bushs-predicted-in-2007-with-frightening-accuracy-what-is-happening-today-in-iraq/

“I know some in Washington would like us to start leaving Iraq now. To begin withdrawing before our commanders tell us we are ready would be dangerous for Iraq, for the region, and for the United States. It would mean surrendering the future of Iraq to al Qaeda. It would mean that we’d be risking mass killings on a horrific scale. It would mean we’d allow the terrorists to establish a safe haven in Iraq to replace the one they lost in Afghanistan. It would mean increasing the probability that American troops would have to return at some later date to confront an enemy that is even more dangerous.”
Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/1453870/president-bushs-predicted-in-2007-with-frightening-accuracy-what-is-happening-today-in-iraq/#p77tGFtATbsPVRex.99

Using the link, you are given a video showing what Bush predicted.

I keep saying Bush's purpose was to FREE Iraq, then they would create a government of their choosing.

Watch early in the Video where Bush clearly makes those points.

I am sorry it just doesn't work well that way. they need to free themselves and then create their own gov't. It's not our business and if they want it badly enough and can fight for and then achieve victory then the success of their gov't of choice is more probable. We should not allow ourselves to crutch people to freedom because in the end, they are still gimping along.

[Dark Mistress]

That will be considered chump change compared with what's coming our way. Bush was wrong for not hitting them with everything we had. We wounded them, but they recovered and Obama's soft, passive approach allowed them to thrive. My guess is they will use germ warfare to hurt us. They want big numbers.

We tried attacking them, (Bush) Fail
We tried diplomacy, (Obama) Fail

Now we need a different approach, annihilate them, leave no remnant to grow and reconstitute.


Or just get the hell out and leave them to themselves....

[Redrose]

Funny, this whole "don't pass blame" message has been utterly absent until people (rightfully) acknowledged that what happened is the result of decades of bad foreign policy.

Still, I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth. I agree. It's time we started talking solutions.




To be fair to our politicians from IKE to the present, the enemy we face today is so foreign from what we are used to, no one really has a clue how to deal with them.

Prior to the late fifties, our two oceans and limited travel options kept us relatively safe. But then the jet plane and advanced warfare tactics made the world a much smaller place. In Viet Nam we faced a completely different enemy, even worse than the Japanese Kamikaze in WWII. We couldn't fight them in Viet Nam rice patties and win in their home court. We never saw children used as weapons to kill us, until then. We lost. The only reason we won in WWII in the Pacific was Truman and the bomb. Their "pride" would not let them surrender. It took two massive bombs to get their attention and surrender.

Saddam was a ruthless villain, but he valued his life and all the trappings of wealth. ISIL are a throwback to the Middle Ages, modern trappings hold no interest for them, they live, breath and die to achieve paradise. We don't have a clue how to deal with them. That type of enemy is so foreign to a civilized society, we are the mouse in their cat and mouse game, and they know it.

Conventional strategies are not working, we need to think like they do, anticipate their next move, be on the offensive not the defensive. We are underestimating what they're capable of.

I would love to be able to say they can't hurt us or hit us here on our soil, but I would be lying to myself.

People don't want to be labeled a paranoid, but being naively complacent is just what the enemy is banking on.

[Redrose]

Or just get the hell out and leave them to themselves....


That would be great if they were content on staying in the ME. But they're not, they already said they will attack us here.

[The Xl]

That would be great if they were content on staying in the ME. But they're not, they already said they will attack us here.

Tell them that we're going to leave them to their own devices, cut all ties with the Middle East,(Israel included) tell them its all theirs, we're out of the picture, have fun guys, but if you bring us back in via Jihad, that you're all going to get annihilated.

I think that would work pretty well, actually.

[Green Arrow]

That's just the problem, though. The Seahawks didn't win the Super Bowl last year because they were all offense or all defense, they won because they were damn good at both. We have to do the same. As you yourself have said, they are already here. Blowing up their buddies over there won't change that. We have to get strong on defense (we're not, never have been) AND change our offense. No air raids. That won't help. No military force, either. Send special forces after them, particularly special forces Marines.

Then we just become Switzerland at home. Mandate every household own a gun and train them in how to use it. Train citizen militias to patrol every city in America 24/7. Teach them how to spot IEDs, suspicious persons, bomb vests, the whole nine. Close down the border (north and south) and put the military on it. Put our ships back in our oceans.

[Gerrard Winstanley]

You know we didn't find usable amounts and didn't find them until way into the invasion over yellowcake, right? You know it was a bullshit reason to go to war, right? Which is why they changed it to being about "freedom" because even tptb knew it was bullshit.
Either that, or all the WMDs went to Syria / Iran / some variation on the two. Iraq's advocates really don't know when to throw in the towel.

[Redrose]

Tell them that we're going to leave them to their own devices, cut all ties with the Middle East,(Israel included) tell them its all theirs, we're out of the picture, have fun guys, but if you bring us back in via Jihad, that you're all going to get annihilated.

I think that would work pretty well, actually.


I understand your thinking, but we cannot turn our back on our allies, any ally. The whole situation stinks, but we need to deal with it. That part of the world respects strength, power. They are like a wild animal, if it senses weakness, fear, they attack the vulnerable. Obama, to his credit tried passive complacency, even hanging Israel out to dry to fend for themselves. ISIL still is threatening us. IMHO the only thing that will stop them is a massive show of force from us and hopefully some of our allies in Europe and the ME.

[Common Sense]

To be fair to our politicians from IKE to the present, the enemy we face today is so foreign from what we are used to, no one really has a clue how to deal with them.

Prior to the late fifties, our two oceans and limited travel options kept us relatively safe. But then the jet plane and advanced warfare tactics made the world a much smaller place. In Viet Nam we faced a completely different enemy, even worse than the Japanese Kamikaze in WWII. We couldn't fight them in Viet Nam rice patties and win in their home court. We never saw children used as weapons to kill us, until then. We lost. The only reason we won in WWII in the Pacific was Truman and the bomb. Their "pride" would not let them surrender. It took two massive bombs to get their attention and surrender.

Saddam was a ruthless villain, but he valued his life and all the trappings of wealth. ISIL are a throwback to the Middle Ages, modern trappings hold no interest for them, they live, breath and die to achieve paradise. We don't have a clue how to deal with them. That type of enemy is so foreign to a civilized society, we are the mouse in their cat and mouse game, and they know it.

Conventional strategies are not working, we need to think like they do, anticipate their next move, be on the offensive not the defensive. We are underestimating what they're capable of.

I would love to be able to say they can't hurt us or hit us here on our soil, but I would be lying to myself.

People don't want to be labeled a paranoid, but being naively complacent is just what the enemy is banking on.


Nukes didn't end the war. The Japanese were on the verge of surrender. The bombing was a test of their strength.

[del]

You are not a fan of freedom, period.

you're so far up any republican's ass you can see daylight.

[del]

You know we found yellow cake in Iraq right?

sure

i also believe in the easter bunny.

[Common Sense]

http://images.pinkcakebox.com/cake1172.jpg

This is what they found...

[Bob]

After Bush broke the place, how free was Iraq with its constant war between the factions?

How free are you if you can't go to market without standing a very good chance of being blown up by one side or the other?

I love this sort of error laden debate.

Did you ever read General Tommy Franks book called An American Soldier. Franks laid out the plan in detail. Follwing that, another General spoke out to show how Franks detractors were flat wrong.

First to criticize a person, one must either be a top expert himself or to study experts views, then bitch at what Bush did.

The claim Franks / Bush broke Iran is silly. That invasion was conducted so to destroy or damage very little of Iraq. The oil fields were not set into flames as happened in Bush 41. Bush 43 plan saved them. And not for the USA self interest.

Then the targets gone after by Franks were military targets. He destroyed or ran off the military of Saddam.

This crappy claim Bush broke iraq is simply not true. While Gen. Powell did say to break it is to own it, he knew the full plan of Franks and approved it.

We can't blame Bush for what the people of Iraq decided to do with their new found freedom.

I wish Bush's critics read the official books on those two wars.

Cheney wrote a book that I read
Bush as well and so did Rumsfeld. Good books, read them.

[Bob]

Nukes didn't end the war. The Japanese were on the verge of surrender. The bombing was a test of their strength.

When you get a chance, study that particular history to find out what mistakes you made.

[Common Sense]

When you get a chance, study that particular history to find out what mistakes you made.

I have Bob. The difference is, I can look at facts without your obvious bias.

[Bob]

I understand your thinking, but we cannot turn our back on our allies, any ally. The whole situation stinks, but we need to deal with it. That part of the world respects strength, power. They are like a wild animal, if it senses weakness, fear, they attack the vulnerable. Obama, to his credit tried passive complacency, even hanging Israel out to dry to fend for themselves. ISIL still is threatening us. IMHO the only thing that will stop them is a massive show of force from us and hopefully some of our allies in Europe and the ME.

Obama will go down in history as the WUSS President. No doubt at all. He does not give a damn if people are free or held by tyrants.

[del]

I have Bob. The difference is, I can look at facts without your obvious bias.

bob's not biased


:rofl:

[Common Sense]

Obama will go down in history as the WUSS President. No doubt at all. He does not give a damn if people are free or held by tyrants.

Why would a communist fascist secret Muslim care?

[Bob]

I have Bob. The difference is, I can look at facts without your obvious bias.

No bias on my part. Normally when a Democrat does something, I presume he did it wrong. But Harry Truman got this one right.

[Bob]

Why would a communist fascist secret Muslim care?

I won't go that far to call him a communist fascist, but he does support Muslims.

[Common Sense]

No bias on my part. Normally when a Democrat does something, I presume he did it wrong. But Harry Truman got this one right.

So Eisenhower was wrong?

[Common Sense]

I won't go that far to call him a communist fascist, but he does support Muslims.

He's declared a Jihad on all the white folk.

[Common Sense]

US Strategic Bombing Survey Verdict


The Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs did not defeat Japan, nor by the testimony of the enemy leaders who ended the war did they persuade Japan to accept unconditional surrender. The Emperor, the Lord Privy Seal, the Prime Minister, the Foreign Minister, and the Navy Minister had decided as early as May of 1945 that the war should be ended even if it meant acceptance of defeat on allied terms ...

http://www.anesi.com/ussbs01.htm

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n3p-4_Weber.html

[Redrose]

That's just the problem, though. The Seahawks didn't win the Super Bowl last year because they were all offense or all defense, they won because they were damn good at both. We have to do the same. As you yourself have said, they are already here. Blowing up their buddies over there won't change that. We have to get strong on defense (we're not, never have been) AND change our offense. No air raids. That won't help. No military force, either. Send special forces after them, particularly special forces Marines.

Then we just become Switzerland at home. Mandate every household own a gun and train them in how to use it. Train citizen militias to patrol every city in America 24/7. Teach them how to spot IEDs, suspicious persons, bomb vests, the whole nine. Close down the border (north and south) and put the military on it. Put our ships back in our oceans.


Do you really want to live like that? I don't. I say kill them where they live. Those that are here we can eliminate. To keep us safe in the future we need to have more secure borders, this open border crap is weakening us. Stop this liberal gun control crap. I'm not giving up my guns. If our government is too wussy to protect us, I' m protecting me and mine.

[Common Sense]

The US southern border isn't open. It's a bit leaky, but it's hardly open.

In fact the US border is probably more secure today than ever before.

[Matty]

Do you really want to live like that? I don't. I say kill them where they live. Those that are here we can eliminate. To keep us safe in the future we need to have more secure borders, this open border crap is weakening us. Stop this liberal gun control crap. I'm not giving up my guns. If our government is too wussy to protect us, I' m protecting me and mine.


That is exactly what we need to do. Militarize our borders. Shut them down, then systematically star deporting every single over stayed visa. Then start with illegal criminal aliens. punish any person who employs an illegal. We really do need to gain control of this country.

[Matty]

The US southern border isn't open. It's a bit leaky, but it's hardly open.

In fact the US border is probably more secure today than ever before.
Bullshit.

[Matty]

Go peddle your liberal lies in Canada we ain't buying that shit here.

[Redrose]

[QUOTE=Common Sense;752535]The US southern border isn't open. It's a bit leaky, but it's hardly open.

In fact the US border is probably more secure today than ever before.[/QUOT

True it is not really "open" but it is leaking. A boat will still sink eventually if it leaking.....unless it's plugged.

[Bob]

Surrender of Japan

http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB162/

Document 42 (http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB162/42.pdf): Diary Entry, July 24, 1945, "Japanese Peace Feelers"
Source: Naval Historical Center, Operational Archives, James Forrestal Diaries
Secretary of the Navy James Forrestal was a regular recipient of “Magic” intercept reports; this substantial entry reviews the dramatic Sato-Togo exchanges covered in the 22 July “Magic” summary (although Forrestal misdated Sato’s cable as “first of July” instead of the 21st). In contrast to Alperovitz’s argument that Forrestal tried to modify the terms of unconditional surrender to give the Japanese an out, Frank sees Forrestal’s account of the Sato-Togo exchange as additional evidence that senior U.S. officials understood that Tokyo was not on the “cusp of surrender.” [34] (http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB162/#_edn34)

[Green Arrow]

Do you really want to live like that?

No, but unfortunately, we no longer have a choice. Decades of absolutely terrible foreign policy are bringing our chickens home to roost.


I say kill them where they live. Those that are here we can eliminate. To keep us safe in the future we need to have more secure borders, this open border crap is weakening us. Stop this liberal gun control crap. I'm not giving up my guns. If our government is too wussy to protect us, I' m protecting me and mine.

Not an option anymore. They aren't just there, they are here, and you'll never kill them all here without killing innocent Americans. The plan I put forward is backed up by our military guys who have been there and seen what these people do. You can be uncomfortable or you can be dead, you can't have comfort and safety anymore.

[nathanbforrest45]

yeah, the mideast is soooo much more stable now

we should go back


Why is the left so stupid. Is it because they smoked so much dope it has completely rotted their brains?

The mess in Iraq is exactly what Bush was warning against and predicting what would happen if we left Iraq when we did.

[del]

Why is the left so stupid. Is it because they smoked so much dope it has completely rotted their brains?

The mess in Iraq is exactly what Bush was warning against and predicting what would happen if we left Iraq when we did.

why is the right so stupid? is it because they drank so much cheap wine that it's completely rotted their brains?

the mess in iraq is exactly what we warned bush against when he was ginning up excuses to start a war with iraq and what we predicted would happen if he did.

[Green Arrow]

Why is the left so stupid. Is it because they smoked so much dope it has completely rotted their brains?

The mess in Iraq is exactly what Bush was warning against and predicting what would happen if we left Iraq when we did.

Funny that he didn't predict what would happen if we went in there in the first place.

[Mr. Right]

if the asshat bush had stayed the fuck out, there'd be no need.

if the shitheads in congress had told him to pound sand, there'd be no need.

next?

Right, and we wouldn't have had to hear that assinine comment by the flip-floppers, "I was for the war in Iraq before I was against it."

Cheers!

[Mr. Right]

Bush was also 100% wrong in choosing to invade and occupy Iraq in the first place. And yes, so were all the Democrats like Hillary that supported the war.

What do ya wanna bet the STOOGE/MORON chosen to run against Shrillery completely forgets her support of the war and doesn't cite it in his campaign.

[Gerrard Winstanley]

Why is the left so stupid. Is it because they smoked so much dope it has completely rotted their brains?

The mess in Iraq is exactly what Bush was warning against and predicting what would happen if we left Iraq when we did.
Iraq was lost the day we set foot on it.

[Green Arrow]

What do ya wanna bet the STOOGE/MORON chosen to run against Shrillery completely forgets her support of the war and doesn't cite it in his campaign.

I think it's rather sad that your concern is for the next presidential campaign.

[Peter1469]

Iraq was lost the day we set foot on it.

Incorrect. Iraq was lost the day we decided that Jeffersonian democracy was good for them.

[Gerrard Winstanley]

Incorrect. Iraq was lost the day we decided that Jeffersonian democracy was good for them.
Any characters we resigned to install at the top were going to fail. It doesn't matter whether they were full-blown autocrats or autocrats pretending to be liberals (i.e. the current lot). Imposed dictatorships have never worked, nor have imposed democracies.

[Mini Me]

Because at the time China wasn't doing the same to its people and minorities, not to mention it has nukes....don't feed me we cared that Saddam had WMDs (the recipes were from us) and was a brutal dictator so we had to go crap when we saw China killing girl babies, torturing dissidents, starving out whole towns along the yellow mountains, and looked the other way to give them favored nation trading status.

This was about the CFR white paper from 1997.

Anyway, I have to go but love that signature line. I'd be threadbanned and confined to the Hole for breaking the rules. I guess you're special.

This "hole" sounds scary!

Is it a rubber room torture chamber or something like that?

Or can we do primal scream therapy there?

Who lives there?:violent4:

[Mini Me]

How many ways can we explain how incompetent Obama is but to contrast him to Bush.

Bush turns out was completely correct.

http://www.inquisitr.com/1453870/president-bushs-predicted-in-2007-with-frightening-accuracy-what-is-happening-today-in-iraq/

“I know some in Washington would like us to start leaving Iraq now. To begin withdrawing before our commanders tell us we are ready would be dangerous for Iraq, for the region, and for the United States. It would mean surrendering the future of Iraq to al Qaeda. It would mean that we’d be risking mass killings on a horrific scale. It would mean we’d allow the terrorists to establish a safe haven in Iraq to replace the one they lost in Afghanistan. It would mean increasing the probability that American troops would have to return at some later date to confront an enemy that is even more dangerous.”
Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/1453870/president-bushs-predicted-in-2007-with-frightening-accuracy-what-is-happening-today-in-iraq/#p77tGFtATbsPVRex.99

Using the link, you are given a video showing what Bush predicted.

I keep saying Bush's purpose was to FREE Iraq, then they would create a government of their choosing.

Watch early in the Video where Bush clearly makes those points.

Well, Bush started his "bug out" of Iraq plan in 2008, and Obama finished Bush'e plan in 2012.
So he didn't follow his own advice!

Reminds me of Nixon campaigning saying; "We will not bug out of Vietnam"
And that's exactly what he did!

[Peter1469]

Any characters we resigned to install at the top were going to fail. It doesn't matter whether they were full-blown autocrats or autocrats pretending to be liberals (i.e. the current lot). Imposed dictatorships have never worked, nor have imposed democracies.

What is your definition of work? The CIA destabilized the Iraqi government in the early 1960s which lead room for Saddam to take power. He clamped down on the Iraqis until we deposed him in 2003.

What I mean is had we turned Iraq over to another ruthless dictator none of what we are seeing now with the Islamic State would be possible.

[Green Arrow]

Any characters we resigned to install at the top were going to fail. It doesn't matter whether they were full-blown autocrats or autocrats pretending to be liberals (i.e. the current lot). Imposed dictatorships have never worked, nor have imposed democracies.

I don't necessarily agree with that. Saddam had our help getting into power, and the only reason he lost that power was because we took him right back out again. Gaddhafi too, same way. Even Israel had a good relationship with Gaddhafi at first.

[donttread]

Iraq is a"Quagmire" albeit a profitable one

[Peter1469]

Iraq is a"Quagmire" albeit a profitable one

It wasn't profitable for the US.

[Common Sense]

It wasn't profitable for the US.

Some Americans and some American companies did quite well for themselves.

[Peter1469]

Some Americans and some American companies did quite well for themselves.

Right.

[PolWatch]

Well, Bush started his "bug out" of Iraq plan in 2008, and Obama finished Bush'e plan in 2012.
So he didn't follow his own advice!

Reminds me of Nixon campaigning saying; "We will not bug out of Vietnam"
And that's exactly what he did!

Nixon campaigned on getting out of Viet Nam (video of Nixon commercial in 1968)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx3rt9IYtUM

[The Xl]

Right.

Well, considering the fact that a small group of special interests basically own the US...