How Empires End

[Mainecoons]

Very interesting treatise from Zero Hedge.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-08/how-empires-end


The Spanish EmpireIn 1556, Philip II of Spain inherited what was regarded as Europe’s most wealthy nation, with no apparent economic problems. Yet, by 1598, Spain was bankrupt. How was this possible?
Spain was doing well but sought to become a major power. To achieve this, Philip needed more tax dollars. Beginning in 1561, the existing servicio tax was regularised, and the crusada tax, the excusado tax, and the millones tax were all added by 1590.
Over a period of 39 years (between 1559 and 1598) taxes increased by 430%. Although the elite of the day were exempt from taxation (the elite of today are not officially exempt), the average citizen was taxed to the point that both business expansion and public purchasing diminished dramatically. Wages did not keep pace with the resultant inflation. The price of goods rose 400%, causing a price revolution and a tax revolution.
Although Spain enjoyed a flood of gold and silver from the Americas at this time, the increased wealth went straight into Philip’s war efforts. However, the 100,000 troops were soon failing to return sufficient spoils to Philip to pay for their forays abroad.
In a final effort to float the doomed empire, Philip issued government bonds, which provided immediate cash but created tremendous debt that, presumably, would need to be repaid one day. (The debt grew to 8.8 times GDP.)
Spain declared bankruptcy. Trade slipped to other countries. The military, fighting on three fronts, went unpaid, and military aspirations collapsed.
It is important to note that, even as the empire was collapsing, Philip did not suspend warfare. He did not back off on taxation. Like leaders before and since, he instead stubbornly increased his autocracy as the empire slid into collapse.
Present-Day EmpiresAgain, the events above are not taught to schoolchildren as being of key importance in the decline of empires, even though they are remarkably consistent with the decline of other empires and what we are seeing today. The very same events occur, falling like dominoes, more or less in order, in any empire, in any age:

The reach of government leaders habitually exceeds their grasp.

Dramatic expansion (generally through warfare) is undertaken without a clear plan as to how that expansion is to be financed.

The population is overtaxed as the bills for expansion become due, without consideration as to whether the population can afford increased taxation.

Heavy taxation causes investment by the private sector to diminish, and the economy begins to decline.

Costs of goods rise, without wages keeping pace.

Tax revenue declines as the economy declines (due to excessive taxation). Taxes are increased again, in order to top up government revenues.

In spite of all the above, government leaders personally hoard as much as they can, further limiting the circulation of wealth in the business community.

Governments issue bonds and otherwise borrow to continue expansion, with no plan as to repayment.

Dramatic authoritarian control is instituted to assure that the public continues to comply with demands, even if those demands cannot be met by the public.

Economic and social collapse occurs, often marked by unrest and riots, the collapse of the economy, and the exit of those who are productive.

In this final period, the empire turns on itself, treating its people as the enemy.
Note #8 and #11

[Libhater]

You just described the Democrat Party to a tee, and more specifically--the very policies and or agenda of the Obama administration for these past 6 years that we have been suffering under here in America.

[Mainecoons]

This has been going on a lot longer than 6 years with the enthusiastic encouragement of the Donkephant.

[Green Arrow]

Completely correct.

[Chris]

Starting with "The reach of government leaders habitually exceeds their grasp," it's the history of the Donkephant.

[Ransom]

Where there were certainly 'forays abroad" as the Spanish had conquered the Aztecs, Philip II of Spain didn't inherit any wealthy nation, with no apparent economic problems. In fact, abroad during their downfall meant across the English Channel where their Armada was sunk by both British naval forces and mother nature's. But what you would have us do Sir......is disregard any Spanish threat...if you're the English. Not build your own navy, not project a forward stance.....you would have had England bury it's head in the sand......rather than build the world's most powerful navy and keep such for centuries until eclipsed by their much richer Niece across the Atlantic.

That's a great analogy, do not miss the English Empire across those same years, Maine. There is much to learn there as well.

[Redrose]

:grin:


Please explain why you post a "happy face" when you see posts showing how bad our government is and what a precarious situation we are in?

Do you have millions stashed away in Switzerland, and can flee this country when it collapses?

[Libhater]

These idiots who keep trotting out this donkephant mantra that suggests both parties are responsible for the downward spiral of our education system in America are just not paying attention. The government's (Common Core) involvement with the billions of dollars to subsidize the mediocre or the failing grades of our public school students is once again a totally Democrat/Liberal initiative. Remember if you can that its the Republicans/Conservatives who are the very people who want to bring us school choice, to privatize our healthcare into private medical accounts, who support private businesses and business people to be able to produce products through the free market competition route and not to penalize these businesses by taxing them, over regulating them, by redistributing their wealth like the democrat liberals will do every time. And how does this ridiculous donkephant mantra apply to Republicans/Conservatives when assessing the government intrusion and subsidizing of the communist unions here in America? You donkephant idiots are more dangerous than even Obama himself to the progress of this nation.

[nic34]

The best you can and should do is to stay informed so that you can protect yourself in the best way possible, and even profit from the situation.

Typical capitalist attitude, get the most out of it for ones self.

[Chris]

The best you can and should do is to stay informed so that you can protect yourself in the best way possible, and even profit from the situation.

Typical capitalist attitude, get the most out of it for ones self.

Typical progressive misrepresentation of natural self-interest.

[nic34]

Very interesting treatise from Zero Hedge.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-08/how-empires-end

[/LIST]Note #8 and #11

There are only #1s.

[nic34]

Typical progressive misrepresentation of natural self-interest.


Is THAT what it is.... I thought it was called selfishness, aka conservatism....

[Chris]

These idiots who keep trotting out this donkephant mantra that suggests both parties are responsible for the downward spiral of our education system in America are just not paying attention. The government's (Common Core) involvement with the billions of dollars to subsidize the mediocre or the failing grades of our public school students is once again a totally Democrat/Liberal initiative. Remember if you can that its the Republicans/Conservatives who are the very people who want to bring us school choice, to privatize our healthcare into private medical accounts, who support private businesses and business people to be able to produce products through the free market competition route and not to penalize these businesses by taxing them, over regulating them, by redistributing their wealth like the democrat liberals will do every time. And how does this ridiculous donkephant mantra apply to Republicans/Conservatives when assessing the government intrusion and subsidizing of the communist unions here in America? You donkephant idiots are more dangerous than even Obama himself to the progress of this nation.


When you bookend your post with "idiots" you're about as persuasive as protectionist or ransom.

But then you are a partisan who can see the donkephant.

[Chris]

Is THAT what it is.... I thought it was called selfishness, aka conservatism....

Again, typical progressive misrepresentation.

It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. ~Adam Smith

Note, he was a liberal, classically so.

[nic34]

privatize our healthcare into private medical accounts

Let me guess who gets those, the wealthy and connected.... right?

[Bob]

This has been going on a lot longer than 6 years with the enthusiastic encouragement of the Donkephant.

You persist in the myth republicans and democrats are the same thing. Explain then their open hostility to each other.

[Bob]

Is THAT what it is.... I thought it was called selfishness, aka conservatism....

No, conservative principles do not stand for selfishness.

As another poster hints, look at Adam Smith and how the market operates.

[Bob]

privatize our healthcare into private medical accounts

Let me guess who gets those, the wealthy and connected.... right?

Wait till you get onto Medicare and find out what is waiting for you. Your doctor wants you to get a colon exam? Forget it. Medicare bans them unless the doctor can supply proof you have something like cancer. Maybe blood has to be pouring out your butt for Medicare to care.

This happened to me so it is no far fetched story. In my case, my doctor simply went ahead and gave me the exam. But he and the hospital were turned down flat for payment.

[Libhater]

The best you can and should do is to stay informed so that you can protect yourself in the best way possible, and even profit from the situation.

Typical capitalist attitude, get the most out of it for ones self.

You don't have a clue about capitalism, son. Capitalism is geared to benefit everyone as everyone is dependent on others to make the system successful. You pull my wanker and I'll pull yours till we're all happy and comfortable in life.

[nathanbforrest45]

You just described the Democrat Party to a tee, and more specifically--the very policies and or agenda of the Obama administration for these past 6 years that we have been suffering under here in America.


As much as I hate to say it this has not been just the work of the Democrats. Both parties are tax and spend puppets, the Republicans less so than the Dems but big spenders anyway. I don't see us going anywhere other than into bankruptcy. I am sorry for my children and grandchildren because they will be the one's affected most by this, I will be long gone.

I also see all of the West being overtaken by the Muslim world. The West has become, like Rome, too decadent to care about its future, it is only interested in the next 2 minutes. We have thrown all of our morals and beliefs away, we stand for nothing, we accept everything except reason.

We are as doomed as Greece and Rome ever were and for the same reasons.

[Libhater]

As much as I hate to say it this has not been just the work of the Democrats. Both parties are tax and spend puppets, the Republicans less so than the Dems but big spenders anyway. I don't see us going anywhere other than into bankruptcy. I am sorry for my children and grandchildren because they will be the one's affected most by this, I will be long gone.

I also see all of the West being overtaken by the Muslim world. The West has become, like Rome, too decadent to care about its future, it is only interested in the next 2 minutes. We have thrown all of our morals and beliefs away, we stand for nothing, we accept everything except reason.

We are as doomed as Greece and Rome ever were and for the same reasons.


Looks like I'm going to have to alert the mods to have my Happy Birthday post to you stricken from the forum. C-mon Nate, you're starting to sound like the rest of these donkephants nutcases.

[nathanbforrest45]

Looks like I'm going to have to alert the mods to have my Happy Birthday post to you stricken from the forum. C-mon Nate, you're starting to sound like the rest of these donkephants nutcases.


No, I am sorry but since Richard Nixon, with the exception of Ronald Reagan, all Republicans have been as interested in increasing the size and scope of government as has the Democrats. I will agree the Democrats are out and out socialist but the Republicans are maybe even more insidious in that they are fascist with a smiley face. Even Ayn Rand recognized that. Read some of her works like "Capitalism The Unknown Ideal" and The Objectivist Newsletter. Neither party is worth a shit and both are taking down the road to ruin.

[nic34]

Again, typical progressive misrepresentation.

It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. ~Adam Smith

Note, he was a liberal, classically so.


Another classic liberal...

The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. ~ John Kenneth Galbraith

[nathanbforrest45]

Another classic liberal...

The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. ~ John Kenneth Galbraith


He was a queer socialist, who really gives a shit about Galbraith?

[nic34]

He was a queer socialist, who really gives a shit about Galbraith?

Link?

Those that care about Adam Smith care about Galbraith...

[Chris]

Another classic liberal...

The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. ~ John Kenneth Galbraith



Selfishness is evil, self interest is not, let's not pretend they're one and the same.

The world runs on individuals pursuing their self interests. The great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didn't construct his theory under order from a, from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didn't revolutionize the automobile industry that way. ~Milton Friedman

[Chris]

Link?

Those that care about Adam Smith care about Galbraith...

Link?

[Libhater]

No, I am sorry but since Richard Nixon, with the exception of Ronald Reagan, all Republicans have been as interested in increasing the size and scope of government as has the Democrats. I will agree the Democrats are out and out socialist but the Republicans are maybe even more insidious in that they are fascist with a smiley face. Even Ayn Rand recognized that. Read some of her works like "Capitalism The Unknown Ideal" and The Objectivist Newsletter. Neither party is worth a shit and both are taking down the road to ruin.

Look, when I have time I'll dedicate a post to the danger of having Republicans or Conservatives give up the ship in order to fall in lockstep with and in accordance with the liberal/socialist agenda. But for now, I'm simply exhausted from having another lengthy love making affair with my girlfriend.

[Redrose]

Is THAT what it is.... I thought it was called selfishness, aka conservatism....


Conservatism = selfishness??? How foolish. If I forced you to give up a chunk of your income to the point of jeopardizing the wellbeing of your home and family, to give it to people not willing to work for it, you would protest I'm sure and you would be called selfish. That is exactly what the loony left is doing. The more they tax, the less we have, the less we can donate. The left are the truly selfish ones, forcing everyone to knuckle under to their short sighted views.

In reality, the Conservative middle class and big corporations are the biggest donors for charities.

I give to two churches, the DAV, St. Jude, Red Cross, the Share It Forward plan at work, Shriners, pet shelters and we adopt a family at Christmas and take several names off of Christmas trees locally. It adds up to several thousand dollars each year, and we are not wealthy by any means. Under Obama these past six years has made it more difficult, but we still do it.

Stop believing the liberal crap dished out by the corrupt politicians and crooked media.

[Matty]

Another classic liberal...

The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. ~ John Kenneth Galbraith



Tell ya what. Stay out of our pockets and we will stay out of your wombs! Deal?