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Bob
09-15-2014, 10:59 AM
I like Rand Paul. Even though he is not prepared to manage the USA, I really do like the man. He has a lot of potential.

Romney caught hell for changing his mind on a few things.

I guarantee you that Paul will have to explain his changes and stop denying he changed his mind.

Read what I am talking of.

http://news.yahoo.com/why-won-t-rand-paul-admit-he-s-changed-his-mind-005506434.html

Chris
09-15-2014, 11:07 AM
Manage government, not the USA. I'm not sure Rand or any other politician is capable.

Captain Obvious
09-15-2014, 11:08 AM
Rand is inexperienced and under pressure to pander to as many potential constituents as possible.

If red flags aren't popping up for anyone considering the validity of this person as a POTUS candidate then your radar is unplugged.

birddog
09-15-2014, 11:10 AM
He qualified his opinion this morning on Fox News by saying our military should only be used on the ground after Iraq and SA each put 10K troops there. Makes sense to me.

The Xl
09-15-2014, 11:19 AM
Rand is "evolving." Like Obama and Romney did prior.

Which more or less means bending to the will of special interests.

The Xl
09-15-2014, 11:19 AM
He qualified his opinion this morning on Fox News by saying our military should only be used on the ground after Iraq and SA each put 10K troops there. Makes sense to me.

He really supports ground troops? Lol.

What say you, former Rand marks?(You know who you are)

Codename Section
09-15-2014, 11:51 AM
I have never expected Rand Paul to be Ron Paul. Other people have. When given the choice between him and Hillary, I'll pick him. Sorry if that doesn't please anyone but I don't owe people my political charity.

Captain Obvious
09-15-2014, 11:53 AM
I have never expected Rand Paul to be Ron Paul. Other people have. When given the choice between him and Hillary, I'll pick him. Sorry if that doesn't please anyone but I don't owe people my political charity.

Hey - for the record I'd vote for Rand over OBL for what it's worth.

:biglaugh:

Cigar
09-15-2014, 11:54 AM
It does't matter ... Rand Paul will never be President of The United States ... Bank on it

Codename Section
09-15-2014, 11:55 AM
It does't matter ... Rand Paul will never be President of The United States ... Bank on it

Not the topic of the thread. Get on topic. What do you think of what he had to say about troop numbers?

The Xl
09-15-2014, 11:56 AM
I have never expected Rand Paul to be Ron Paul. Other people have. When given the choice between him and Hillary, I'll pick him. Sorry if that doesn't please anyone but I don't owe people my political charity.

It's at the point where it's no different than Republicans who justified voting for Romney in 2012 under the lesser of two evils logic.

The Xl
09-15-2014, 11:57 AM
It does't matter ... Rand Paul will never be President of The United States ... Bank on it

Wonderful. We know "winning," even if it results in shit policy, is all that matters to you. We get it.

That isn't the topic, though.

Chris
09-15-2014, 11:58 AM
He really supports ground troops? Lol.

What say you, former Rand marks?(You know who you are)

I was considering dusting off the old voter registration card and voting next election. I'm beginning to doubt the value in doing that.

The Xl
09-15-2014, 12:00 PM
I was considering dusting off the old voter registration card and voting next election. I'm beginning to doubt the value in doing that.
Same.

I've always been alarmed by Rand. He's proving me right. He's basically the Republican version of Obama, in a lot of ways.

Cigar
09-15-2014, 12:02 PM
Not the topic of the thread. Get on topic. What do you think of what he had to say about troop numbers?


I think he's Full of Shit ... but that's just my opinion and his Own Words :grin:

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/imgs/2014/140904-randstanding.jpg

"No good case for U.S. military intervention" (http://online.wsj.com/articles/sen-rand-paul-america-shouldnt-choose-sides-in-iraqs-civil-war-1403219558)

"I have mixed feelings about it" (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/perry-criticizes-obama-no-strategy-syria)

"I would ... destroy ISIS militarily" (http://www.wbko.com/home/headlines/Sen-Rand-Paul-Responds-to-Flip-Flopping-Criticism-270818741.html)

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/imgs/2014/140915-rand-paul-wows-crowd-with-bs.jpg




Sen. Rand Paul: If I Become President: My 1st Executive order---Repeal ALL Previous Executive OrdersSen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) said on Thursday that if he became president he would repeal all previous executive orders.

“I think the first executive order that I would issue would be to repeal all previous executive orders,” he said, according to Breitbart News.


Isn’t that a great idea?

Repealing all executive orders has the potential to undo a large amount of policy. Executive orders, for example, ban assassinations by the United States and organize intelligence agencies under the Director of National Intelligence.


“Senator Paul’s statement was meant to emphasize this president’s overt and unconstitutional executive orders, it was not meant to be taken literally,” Paul spokesman Sergio Gor wrote in an email.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2014_09/the_very_serious_rand_paul052076.php

Chris
09-15-2014, 12:05 PM
Same.

I've always been alarmed by Rand. He's proving me right. He's basically the Republican version of Obama, in a lot of ways.



I'm coming around to agree with your assessment. Like code alludes to, I think I thought of him as the second coming of Ron Paul, which he's not.

The Xl
09-15-2014, 12:06 PM
Rands a fraud, this is true.

The Xl
09-15-2014, 12:07 PM
I'm coming around to agree with your assessment. Like code alludes to, I think I thought of him as the second coming of Ron Paul, which he's not.

Good to hear.

I hope others come around before it's too late. He needs to be completely exposed before 2016.

Codename Section
09-15-2014, 12:10 PM
It's at the point where it's no different than Republicans who justified voting for Romney in 2012 under the lesser of two evils logic.

No, I'd have to think he's evil. I agree with him on about 40%. He's not a libertarian, just a libertarian leaning-Republican. The other candidates don't even come close.

If his last name were "Paul" he'd just be a Republican who's less annoying than the rest. It's how I feel about Bernie Sanders. I like him better than the other guys.

If he called himself a libertarian then he would be disappointing me, but he's not. The sanctions he's agreed to have always been there with stipulations that prevented war, I think that he did it to prevent war. His words now about boots on the ground is saying IF they come up with an actual army (which they won't) then we go to war. Again, a way of preventing war.

I am not like you guys. I don't expect political charity from parties not my own and I don't have unrealistic expectations of politicians who don't claim to believe what I do.

I've always said to you not to vote for him. People should vote for who they feel like voting for.

birddog
09-15-2014, 12:11 PM
It does't matter ... Rand Paul will never be President of The United States ... Bank on it

I said the same thing about your boy Barry, and look what happened. At least Rand Paul would be far better than your scumbucket we have now!

Codename Section
09-15-2014, 12:12 PM
Rands a fraud, this is true.

Frauds are people who pretend to be one thing and then do something else. He never joined the libertarian party. He's a Republican. You're not a Republican, I'm not a Republican...of course he won't appeal.

Fraud is harsh words because he's not pretending to be his dad.

The Xl
09-15-2014, 12:13 PM
No, I'd have to think he's evil. I agree with him on about 40%. He's not a libertarian, just a libertarian leaning-Republican. The other candidates don't even come close.

If his last name were "Paul" he'd just be a Republican who's less annoying than the rest. It's how I feel about Bernie Sanders. I like him better than the other guys.

If he called himself a libertarian then he would be disappointing me, but he's not. The sanctions he's agreed to have always been there with stipulations that prevented war, I think that he did it to prevent war. His words now about boots on the ground is saying IF they come up with an actual army (which they won't) then we go to war. Again, a way of preventing war.

I am not like you guys. I don't expect political charity from parties not my own and I don't have unrealistic expectations of politicians who don't claim to believe what I do.

I've always said to you not to vote for him. People should vote for who they feel like voting for.

I wonder if you'll have that perspective in 2016 when his transformation is complete.

You might not think he's evil, but I've got news for you. If you judge evil based on a politician bending to the will of special interests......I'm afraid I've got some bad news.

In any case, even now, he supports troops on the ground, so how does that not qualify?

The Xl
09-15-2014, 12:14 PM
Frauds are people who pretend to be one thing and then do something else. He never joined the libertarian party. He's a Republican. You're not a Republican, I'm not a Republican...of course he won't appeal.

Fraud is harsh words because he's not pretending to be his dad.

Fraud isn't harsh, because he's obviously banking on his fathers supporters to help him. He's also branding himself as the small government libertarian leaning Republican, that's his gimmick, his claim to fame.

Meanwhile, he supports ground troops to fight Isis. Fucking Obama hasn't even gone that far yet.

Cigar
09-15-2014, 12:16 PM
I said the same thing about your boy Barry, and look what happened. At least Rand Paul would be far better than your scumbucket we have now!


9.5 MILLION VOTES over John McCain

5 MILLION VOTES over Mitt Romney

... better get that PayPal Account ready

Cigar
09-15-2014, 12:17 PM
Frauds are people who pretend to be one thing and then do something else. He never joined the libertarian party. He's a Republican. You're not a Republican, I'm not a Republican...of course he won't appeal.

Fraud is harsh words because he's not pretending to be his dad.


I agree ... he believes every word the comes out of his mouth ...

... he just doesn't remember them

Ransom
09-15-2014, 12:22 PM
I was considering dusting off the old voter registration card and voting next election. I'm beginning to doubt the value in doing that.

It's more than obvious you don't interpret it as a privilege, rather take it for granted so in my opinion, any dusting off I'd doubt you'd see any value in and among all the posts here, there are those defining and most telling posts, this is one of them. Great job, Chris.

Codename Section
09-15-2014, 12:22 PM
I wonder if you'll have that perspective in 2016 when his transformation is complete.

Or it's nothing that nefarious and he just is a Republican. Republicans happen.




You might not think he's evil, but I've got news for you. If you judge evil based on a politician bending to the will of special interests......I'm afraid I've got some bad news.


Which special interests are those?

If someone believes something they may not be cowtowing to special interests. I'll give Bernie Sanders credit on this--do you expect him to not listen to unions or greenpeace? He's a greenie and a socialist.



In any case, even now, he supports troops on the ground, so how does that not qualify?

He said that when they get an actual army of 10,000 then we should intervene. I don't agree, but that's more logical than trying to fight people who are scattered like we did for the last ten years.

Its an actual army at that point.

Codename Section
09-15-2014, 12:23 PM
9.5 MILLION VOTES over John McCain

5 MILLION VOTES over Mitt Romney

... better get that PayPal Account ready

I wanted you once about staying on topic. Everyone, Cigar is out of the thread

Ransom
09-15-2014, 12:23 PM
Fraud=every other individual other than those who Xl supports.

Codename Section
09-15-2014, 12:24 PM
discuss the topic, not the posters

The Xl
09-15-2014, 12:27 PM
Or it's nothing that nefarious and he just is a Republican. Republicans happen.



Which special interests are those?

If someone believes something they may not be cowtowing to special interests. I'll give Bernie Sanders credit on this--do you expect him to not listen to unions or greenpeace? He's a greenie and a socialist.



He said that when they get an actual army of 10,000 then we should intervene. I don't agree, but that's more logical than trying to fight people who are scattered like we did for the last ten years.

Its an actual army at that point.

Clearly, at this point, his interest is the military industrial complex, and I'm sure more will follow once legal bribery.....err.....campaign financing rolls around in 2016.

Him wanting troops on the ground makes no better than the average Neocon. I can't believe any libertarian would vote for that garbage.

Ransom
09-15-2014, 12:28 PM
Frauds are people who pretend to be one thing and then do something else. He never joined the libertarian party. He's a Republican. You're not a Republican, I'm not a Republican...of course he won't appeal.

Fraud is harsh words because he's not pretending to be his dad.

I am a Republican. Card carrying. GOPer. I lean just to the right of Attila on the geopolitical scale, I'm about where Martel is on foreign policy, I think liberalism a cancer on America. And Paul is no fraud perhaps more a realist than most.

The Xl
09-15-2014, 12:28 PM
Fraud=every other individual other than those who Xl supports.

Incorrect, Uncle Ransom. He's a fraud because he's branding himself as something he's clearly not.

Good try, though. Not.

Ransom
09-15-2014, 12:29 PM
Clearly, at this point, his interest is the military industrial complex, and I'm sure more will follow once legal bribery.....err.....campaign financing rolls around in 2016.

Him wanting troops on the ground makes no better than the average Neocon. I can't believe any libertarian would vote for that garbage.

What garbage do libertarians vote for?

Ransom
09-15-2014, 12:31 PM
Incorrect, Uncle Ransom. He's a fraud because he's branding himself as something he's clearly not.

Good try, though. Not.

Fraud or slave to special interest or inept is what you've labeled every Republican I can think of, even those opposed to each other on bigger issues. Your issue seems to be money's influence on politics, your theme.....I'm not really sure, can't say as I care either.

Codename Section
09-15-2014, 12:32 PM
Clearly, at this point, his interest is the military industrial complex, and I'm sure more will follow once legal bribery.....err.....campaign financing rolls around in 2016.

Him wanting troops on the ground makes no better than the average Neocon. I can't believe any libertarian would vote for that garbage.

I don't know that and you don't either. All this talk of war over ISIS and he says, if they get 10,000 troops (an Army) then we should consider it. Not seeing what you're seeing.

They're not going to get 10,000 troops. This way he doesn't look like a dove, but he's also not agreeing to war.

It's chess and you want him to be like his father and not play chess. Ron Paul never played politics and we love him for it. Unfortunately nothing changed.

So you either have to play the game until you can get to where you can do something or you pick up a weapon and revolt.

What are your solutions, The Xl

My tone is neutral, but you complain a lot and never say what you'd do to change things immediately.

The Xl
09-15-2014, 12:33 PM
What garbage do libertarians vote for?

Small government, which on the issue of foreign policy, would mean non interventionism, not troops on the ground against ragtag small fry so contractors can get paid.

Codename Section
09-15-2014, 12:33 PM
Fraud or slave to special interest or inept is what you've labeled every Republican I can think of, even those opposed to each other on bigger issues. Your issue seems to be money's influence on politics, your theme.....I'm not really sure, can't say as I care either.

Money has destroyed politics. He's not wrong there.

The Xl
09-15-2014, 12:34 PM
I don't know that and you don't either. All this talk of war over ISIS and he says, if they get 10,000 troops (an Army) then we should consider it. Not seeing what you're seeing.

They're not going to get 10,000 troops. This way he doesn't look like a dove, but he's also not agreeing to war.

It's chess and you want him to be like his father and not play chess. Ron Paul never played politics and we love him for it. Unfortunately nothing changed.

So you either have to play the game until you can get to where you can do something or you pick up a weapon and revolt.

What are your solutions, @The Xl (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=865)

My tone is neutral, but you complain a lot and never say what you'd do to change things immediately.

You guys just think he's playing chess because you want him to be playing chess. Nothing suggests that at this point in time, however.

Solutions to what? I give plenty of solutions, what are you looking for?

The Xl
09-15-2014, 12:35 PM
Fraud or slave to special interest or inept is what you've labeled every Republican I can think of, even those opposed to each other on bigger issues. Your issue seems to be money's influence on politics, your theme.....I'm not really sure, can't say as I care either.

That's because pretty much every Republican, and Democrat, for that matter, is a slave to special interest, or a fraud, or inept, or all of the above.

Yeah, I don't particularly care for legal bribery.

Codename Section
09-15-2014, 12:40 PM
You guys just think he's playing chess because you want him to be playing chess. Nothing suggests that at this point in time, however?

Solutions to what? I give plenty of solutions, what are you looking for?

No. He's prevented a lot of things by playing the game and standing when it will make sense and throwing curve balls into the machinery.

He's a smaller government Republican but he's still a Republican. I'm not one, but I like him better than I like McCain and I like Bernie Sanders better than I like Schumer, but I'm neither a Republican or Democrat.

There are lesser of two evils and then there are people I sorta like.

I'm not all either/or and the world is black and white. I've never pretended to be Ethereal or Chris or Alyosha. I don't think things will change without force of arms. Wishes won't make them change.

You either need a guy like Rand in now to get a Gary Johnson later to condition the public or you need to scare the shit out of Washington which won't happen. People are scared of libertarians. They won't vote Gary Johnson next time but Rand Paul may break them in.

So I'm asking you with realism applied, as a libertarian how do you plan on accomplishing smaller government?

The Xl
09-15-2014, 12:43 PM
No. He's prevented a lot of things by playing the game and standing when it will make sense and throwing curve balls into the machinery.

He's a smaller government Republican but he's still a Republican. I'm not one, but I like him better than I like McCain and I like Bernie Sanders better than I like Schumer, but I'm neither a Republican or Democrat.

There are lesser of two evils and then there are people I sorta like.

I'm not all either/or and the world is black and white. I've never pretended to be Ethereal or Chris or Alyosha. I don't think things will change without force of arms. Wishes won't make them change.

You either need a guy like Rand in now to get a Gary Johnson later to condition the public or you need to scare the shit out of Washington which won't happen. People are scared of libertarians. They won't vote Gary Johnson next time but Rand Paul may break them in.

So I'm asking you with realism applied, as a libertarian how do you plan on accomplishing smaller government?

Anything he may or may not have done gets tossed out the window he's calling to go further than glorified neocon hawk Barack Obama.

What can I do? It's hopeless as long as the people are uninformed and/or apathetic. The most I can do is support someone who's reasonably close to my ideals. Gary Johnson was passable in 2012, I don't know who that will be, if anyone, in 2016.

Chris
09-15-2014, 12:53 PM
Rands a fraud, this is true.

I wouldn't go that far, but he is a politician, and not one, I'm learning, I can vote for. Still, the rest of the lot are far worse than him.

The Xl
09-15-2014, 12:57 PM
I wouldn't go that far, but he is a politician, and not one, I'm learning, I can vote for. Still, the rest of the lot are far worse than him.

I don't disagree at this stage, but mark my words, that's only for now.

I'll bookmark this thread for 2016 where I can I told you so everyone.

Watch how quickly he loses whatever is left of his principles once the bribes.....err.....donations come in.

Chris
09-15-2014, 01:06 PM
I don't disagree at this stage, but mark my words, that's only for now.

I'll bookmark this thread for 2016 where I can I told you so everyone.

Watch how quickly he loses whatever is left of his principles once the bribes.....err.....donations come in.


OK. Don't think he'll make it that far, don't think he's ready.

Ransom
09-15-2014, 01:13 PM
Small government, which on the issue of foreign policy, would mean non interventionism, not troops on the ground against ragtag small fry so contractors can get paid.

A two word political philosophy?

Ransom
09-15-2014, 01:14 PM
Anything he may or may not have done gets tossed out the window he's calling to go further than glorified neocon hawk Barack Obama.

What can I do? It's hopeless as long as the people are uninformed and/or apathetic. The most I can do is support someone who's reasonably close to my ideals. Gary Johnson was passable in 2012, I don't know who that will be, if anyone, in 2016.

No dog in the fight, huh? How did I know that?

Chris
09-15-2014, 01:38 PM
Small government, which on the issue of foreign policy, would mean non interventionism, not troops on the ground against ragtag small fry so contractors can get paid.


A two word political philosophy?


As opposed to your big government philosophy?

The Xl
09-15-2014, 01:39 PM
No dog in the fight, huh? How did I know that?

You knew that, because even you must be aware that big special interests pay off the government, which leaves quite a big void in the small government politician category.

The Xl
09-15-2014, 01:39 PM
As opposed to your big government philosophy?

Nailed it.

The Xl
09-15-2014, 01:46 PM
Swear, with all the "evolving" these politicians do, it feels like a fucked up game of Pokemon.

What a hopeless situation.

texan
09-15-2014, 03:47 PM
Rand is inexperienced and under pressure to pander to as many potential constituents as possible.

If red flags aren't popping up for anyone considering the validity of this person as a POTUS candidate then your radar is unplugged.


Sounds like Obama in 2008. But you knuckleheads still voted for him. Now you got a war, way to go.

texan
09-15-2014, 03:50 PM
BTW what I remember Paul saying all along was he would act at anytime he felt American interests were at risk.

I don't think he has changed much on this if any. I kept warning people for the last year or so that Rand Paul is not an isolationist like his papa. All you have to do is pay attention. I also said you had better not underestimate him because he is a dangerous candidate.

Of all the candidates right now on both sides, who do you think has a shot at the college type voters?

The Xl
09-15-2014, 04:57 PM
BTW what I remember Paul saying all along was he would act at anytime he felt American interests were at risk.

I don't think he has changed much on this if any. I kept warning people for the last year or so that Rand Paul is not an isolationist like his papa. All you have to do is pay attention. I also said you had better not underestimate him because he is a dangerous candidate.

Of all the candidates right now on both sides, who do you think has a shot at the college type voters?

Ron Paul wasn't an isolationist, the lot of you have no idea what the word means.

The potential support Rand has with the college demo will go to shit the second he signs on for a full scale ground war.

Chris
09-15-2014, 04:58 PM
Ron Paul wasn't an isolationist, the lot of you have no idea what the word means.

The potential support Rand has with the college demo will go to shit the second he signs on for a full scale ground war.


Right, I'd thought he was a noninterventionist, not at all an isolationist, but he seems now to tilt toward interventionism.

The Xl
09-15-2014, 05:02 PM
Right, I'd thought he was a noninterventionist, not at all an isolationist, but he seems now to tilt toward interventionism.

You'll be surprised about future revelations on Rands issues, his "evolving" on them.

Bob
09-15-2014, 05:21 PM
Manage government, not the USA. I'm not sure Rand or any other politician is capable.

i hope you mean to manage the government of the USA. I stated he is not ready for prime time.

Governors have on the job training. They must work up from lower jobs to become governor.

Chris
09-15-2014, 05:28 PM
i hope you mean to manage the government of the USA. I stated he is not ready for prime time.

Governors have on the job training. They must work up from lower jobs to become governor.


We've had this discussion, I would prefer someone inexperienced in the art of governing.

And when I say he's not experienced enough, I mean as a campaigner.

Bob
09-15-2014, 05:29 PM
No. He's prevented a lot of things by playing the game and standing when it will make sense and throwing curve balls into the machinery.

He's a smaller government Republican but he's still a Republican. I'm not one, but I like him better than I like McCain and I like Bernie Sanders better than I like Schumer, but I'm neither a Republican or Democrat.

There are lesser of two evils and then there are people I sorta like.

I'm not all either/or and the world is black and white. I've never pretended to be Ethereal or Chris or Alyosha. I don't think things will change without force of arms. Wishes won't make them change.

You either need a guy like Rand in now to get a Gary Johnson later to condition the public or you need to scare the shit out of Washington which won't happen. People are scared of libertarians. They won't vote Gary Johnson next time but Rand Paul may break them in.

So I'm asking you with realism applied, as a libertarian how do you plan on accomplishing smaller government?

You are a member of a club that simply is not a factor.

You can only chat.

I vote for republicans because they do win. I prefer to imprint Libertarian values on them than persuade Libertarians they follow the path of little voter support.

Chris
09-15-2014, 05:30 PM
You are a member of a club that simply is not a factor.

You can only chat.

I vote for republicans because they do win. I prefer to imprint Libertarian values on them than persuade Libertarians they follow the path of little voter support.


SO you can chat and repeat the party line? Whoopdee.

donttread
09-15-2014, 06:36 PM
I like Rand Paul. Even though he is not prepared to manage the USA, I really do like the man. He has a lot of potential.

Romney caught hell for changing his mind on a few things.

I guarantee you that Paul will have to explain his changes and stop denying he changed his mind.

Read what I am talking of.

http://news.yahoo.com/why-won-t-rand-paul-admit-he-s-changed-his-mind-005506434.html


That is a concern. I don't like to see him caving on non-interventionism.