View Full Version : NECONs want to destroy Assad, and then IS
Peter1469
09-16-2014, 06:06 PM
NECONs want to destroy Assad, and then the Islamic State (http://www.newrepublic.com/article/119424/isis-and-syria-why-us-should-eliminate-bashar-al-assad-first):
Right. Destroy a credible force and create another vacuum in the Middle East....
Iraq and Syria are extreme examples of the fundamental grievances embodied by the 2011 Arab Spring. Since the 1920s, much of the Arab World has been struggling to answer one fundamental question: what is it that follows the Ottoman Sultan-Caliph as the source of political legitimacy? The answer suggested by protesters in Tunis, Cairo, Deraa, and elsewhere was compellingly correct: the consent of the governed. That autocrats should reject the answer and push back is hardly surprising. Today only Tunisia seems to be on a clear path to legitimacy. Other Arab Spring countries—notably Libya and Yemen—teeter on the brink of state failure. Syria has taken the plunge. Iraq, though not an Arab Spring country per se, is likewise in the pit.
The consent of the governed has failed in the Middle East. Even this guy points to one possible success story- Tunisia.
Cigar
09-16-2014, 06:17 PM
This entire thing is a Train wreck ... I still think we should pack our shit and watch it from the cheep seats
Ransom
09-16-2014, 06:20 PM
Does Israel make two? Oops.
Green Arrow
09-16-2014, 07:10 PM
We got rid of Gaddhafi, and now Libya is in chaos. We got rid of Saddam, now ISIL has taken half of Iraq and Syria. We got rid of a democratically-elected government in Iran, and got Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini. We helped depose Mubarak, and the Muslim Brotherhood (briefly) took Egypt.
When are we going to learn that strongman dictators are, with few exceptions, all the Middle East understands?
Peter1469
09-16-2014, 08:09 PM
We got rid of Gaddhafi, and now Libya is in chaos. We got rid of Saddam, now ISIL has taken half of Iraq and Syria. We got rid of a democratically-elected government in Iran, and got Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini. We helped depose Mubarak, and the Muslim Brotherhood (briefly) took Egypt.
When are we going to learn that strongman dictators are, with few exceptions, all the Middle East understands?
Libya was one of the better off Arab nations. We screwed the pooch with that one.
Green Arrow
09-16-2014, 08:54 PM
Libya was one of the better off Arab nations. We screwed the pooch with that one.
Yeah, Gaddhafi was crazy, but he wasn't that bad of a leader.
Peter1469
09-16-2014, 08:56 PM
Yeah, Gaddhafi was crazy, but he wasn't that bad of a leader.
He was a great leader - check out what he did for that nation.
Now clearly we in the West wouldn't go for all of that, but we in the West f' things up in the Middle East when we try to make them like us.
texan
09-16-2014, 09:22 PM
This entire thing is a Train wreck ... I still think we should pack our shit and watch it from the cheep seats
I may agree, in fact I do! Why is Obama dragging us into a war?
texan
09-16-2014, 09:31 PM
Well I have seen it all now. A brutal dictator that rapped women like a barbarian, bombed god knows how many innocent people, beheaded enemies, stole other mens wives is a great leader.
Oh oh yes i am sure he was a great leader. I am sure the little bit of cover money he bought a few things with was awesome!
Note to Peter and greenly , really?
exotix
09-16-2014, 09:35 PM
It's not like it's a neocon debut at it ...
Nixon, Rummy, Cheney
http://i60.tinypic.com/ndldzb.jpg
PolWatch
09-16-2014, 09:37 PM
I don't remember the source, but I found someone who had said that some in ME don't believe in democracy because they believe all laws, etc, should come from Mohammad. Anyone know if this is correct or just some dreck on the internet?
who the hell is being called a neo-con?
Good grief.
We got rid of Gaddhafi, and now Libya is in chaos. We got rid of Saddam, now ISIL has taken half of Iraq and Syria. We got rid of a democratically-elected government in Iran, and got Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini. We helped depose Mubarak, and the Muslim Brotherhood (briefly) took Egypt.
When are we going to learn that strongman dictators are, with few exceptions, all the Middle East understands?
We have Obama.
What the hell did you expect?
Green Arrow
09-16-2014, 09:46 PM
We have Obama.
What the hell did you expect?
I expected the same thing we had under Bush Jr., Clinton, Bush Sr., Reagan, Ford, Nixon, LBJ, and Eisenhower.
Green Arrow
09-16-2014, 09:47 PM
Well I have seen it all now. A brutal dictator that rapped women like a barbarian, bombed god knows how many innocent people, beheaded enemies, stole other mens wives is a great leader.
Oh oh yes i am sure he was a great leader. I am sure the little bit of cover money he bought a few things with was awesome!
Note to Peter and greenly , really?
Really.
I don't remember the source, but I found someone who had said that some in ME don't believe in democracy because they believe all laws, etc, should come from Mohammad. Anyone know if this is correct or just some dreck on the internet?
http://www.c-span.org/video/?319734-1/islam-west
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Bob http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=767175#post767175)
We have Obama.
What the hell did you expect?
I expected the same thing we had under Bush Jr., Clinton, Bush Sr., Reagan, Ford, Nixon, LBJ, and Eisenhower.
Why think like that of Obama? Obama never proved to be a leader as those others have.
Peter1469
09-16-2014, 09:54 PM
Well I have seen it all now. A brutal dictator that rapped women like a barbarian, bombed god knows how many innocent people, beheaded enemies, stole other mens wives is a great leader.
Oh oh yes i am sure he was a great leader. I am sure the little bit of cover money he bought a few things with was awesome!
Note to Peter and greenly , really?
And you want to bring Jeffersonian democracy to a people living in 680AD. :smiley:
Who is the fool?
Seriously. You need to study up on real life.
And you want to bring Jeffersonian democracy to a people living in 680AD. :smiley:
Who is the fool?
Seriously. You need to study up on real life.
How far back does parliament go?
That is what Iraq and Afghanistan selected by themselves.
Peter1469
09-16-2014, 10:03 PM
How far back does parliament go?
That is what Iraq and Afghanistan selected by themselves.
The "citizens" didn't section anything.
The people went to their tribal leaders and asked " who vote for...."
Americans who think that democracy exists in the Middle East are uneducated and don't deserve a vote until they tighten up.
Peter1469
09-16-2014, 10:04 PM
How can America make a sensible policy when Americans are so uniformed?
PolWatch
09-16-2014, 10:06 PM
The "citizens" didn't section anything.
The people went to their tribal leaders and asked " who vote for...."
Americans who think that democracy exists in the Middle East are uneducated and don't deserve a vote until they tighten up.
all those purple thumbs didn't mean much?
Peter1469
09-16-2014, 10:12 PM
all those purple thumbs didn't mean much?
Not a god-dam thing. Those people went to their sheiks and asked, "who do you want me to vote for."
The West needs to end this fetish for democracy in the Middle East. If those crazy Islamists have any chance whatsoever of truly hurting the West it is only because we try to play nice with them. They need to be managed and harshly.
They don't get it. And they don't want to get it. We are cutting our necks when we pretend to give it to them.
exotix
09-16-2014, 10:14 PM
all those purple thumbs didn't mean much?
They got voter-suppressed.
Green Arrow
09-16-2014, 10:16 PM
Why think like that of Obama? Obama never proved to be a leader as those others have.
It's not a compliment.
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Bob http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=767185#post767185)
Why think like that of Obama? Obama never proved to be a leader as those others have.
It's not a compliment.
Then why bring them up if you think that poorly of Obama yet decided to vote for him as your man?
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Bob http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=767189#post767189)
How far back does parliament go?
That is what Iraq and Afghanistan selected by themselves.
The "citizens" didn't section anything.
The people went to their tribal leaders and asked " who vote for...."
Americans who think that democracy exists in the Middle East are uneducated and don't deserve a vote until they tighten up.
Sounds a lot like what Americans do.
They don't really understand this country and look for some sort of expert to explain to them who to vote for.
It takes a lot of study of the correct books to figure out even this country.
all those purple thumbs didn't mean much?
Kind of dumb of them don't you think? i would not do that.
Peter1469
09-16-2014, 10:24 PM
Jeffersonian democracy in ME = utter failure.
You NEOCONs have a ball.
Jeffersonian democracy in ME = utter failure.
You NEOCONs have a ball.
I told how Mr. Kristol was a Neocon. I have yet to read how he wanted to invade other countries.
So, name those neo-cons who thumb their noses at the father of neo-cons.
Peter1469
09-16-2014, 10:32 PM
I don't believe you for a second. The Neocons are not hiding. And you seem to take a shine to them.
Lose some weight, maybe they will let you go fight for God and Country.
I told how Mr. Kristol was a Neocon. I have yet to read how he wanted to invade other countries.
So, name those neo-cons who thumb their noses at the father of neo-cons.
I don't believe you for a second. The Neocons are not hiding. And you seem to take a shine to them.
Lose some weight, maybe they will let you go fight for God and Country.
Rather than attack me, just tell me the names please.
We are very interested (speaking up for those who don't know yet) who they are.
The military would not take me were i to want to go back in.
Gunny
09-17-2014, 10:56 AM
I don't remember the source, but I found someone who had said that some in ME don't believe in democracy because they believe all laws, etc, should come from Mohammad. Anyone know if this is correct or just some dreck on the internet?
That is essentially correct. It isn't that they don't believe in democracy ... very few have any understanding of what it is. It is neither how they live nor think.
Green Arrow
09-17-2014, 11:36 AM
Then why bring them up if you think that poorly of Obama yet decided to vote for him as your man?
Because I was making the point that what is happening now is the result of decades of terrible foreign policy on the part of our government all the way back to Eisenhower.
Green Arrow
09-17-2014, 11:39 AM
Sounds a lot like what Americans do.
They don't really understand this country and look for some sort of expert to explain to them who to vote for.
I agree. Rather than voting for their own principles and following their own hearts, they look for someone else to tell them how to vote.
It takes a lot of study of the correct books to figure out even this country.
...are you suggesting people SHOULD let others tell them how to cast their vote?
donttread
09-17-2014, 06:53 PM
NECONs want to destroy Assad, and then the Islamic State (http://www.newrepublic.com/article/119424/isis-and-syria-why-us-should-eliminate-bashar-al-assad-first):
Right. Destroy a credible force and create another vacuum in the Middle East....
When was it we supported Assuad? A couple years ago?
The consent of the governed has failed in the Middle East. Even this guy points to one possible success story- Tunisia.
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