Jackknifed on hypocrisy highway

[texan]

This administration is truly amazing. The have no shame as they go where the wind blows. When you look at everything the man ran on, everything the dem party lied about on war and then watch him remake George Bush's speech damn near word for word it screams hypocrisy.

He he stood at the UN and bragged exactly one year before how he decimated Al Qaeda. Then this week twisted the Iraq war act to justify his actions. 7 years before he was against the act for all the reasons I won't get into.

Unbelieveable.

[Matty]

well believe it.

[Cigar]

If you actually think that ... well then tell us when you and the Mrs are planing a nice safe trip to Iraq.

You won't have 60,000,000 Troops and their Hardware to help you take pictures ... just 1600 :grin:

But hey ... you and your lady friend can handle yourself anyway with the nice locals, and the locals just love The American Women.

[Green Arrow]

This is probably one of the few times I'll agree with Cigar, but frankly texan, you're full of it. Barely a week ago you were demanding Obama act against ISIL, and now that he does it, you're condemning him for acting on ISIL. You are a perfect example of what's wrong with American politics. You are so damn blinded by partisanship that you are really the one turning any way the wind blows based purely on what the opposite side is doing.

[Peter1469]

I have no problem with the bombing campaign. I have a problem telling Americans that the goal is to destroy the Islamic State.

This bombing has zero percent chance of doing that.

[Green Arrow]

I have no problem with the bombing campaign. I have a problem telling Americans that the goal is to destroy the Islamic State.

This bombing has zero percent chance of doing that.

Right. That's why I keep saying we WILL have boots on the ground and another ten year war after the elections. ALL of Obama's top military advisors and even Chuck Hagel are telling Obama that he can only destroy ISIL by putting boots on the ground. He won't ignore them forever, especially if ISIL keeps scaring the American sheeple with beheading videos and threats of terror attacks on the mainland.

[Peter1469]

Right. That's why I keep saying we WILL have boots on the ground and another ten year war after the elections. ALL of Obama's top military advisors and even Chuck Hagel are telling Obama that he can only destroy ISIL by putting boots on the ground. He won't ignore them forever, especially if ISIL keeps scaring the American sheeple with beheading videos and threats of terror attacks on the mainland.

And that is not assured. We had up to 150K on the ground in Iraq for a decade (plus more in contractors) and that didn't do a thing. We need to get the locals to fight perpetually against each other - that way they won't have time to screw with the West. Let them drown in their own blood.

[Green Arrow]

And that is not assured. We had up to 150K on the ground in Iraq for a decade (plus more in contractors) and that didn't do a thing. We need to get the locals to fight perpetually against each other - that way they won't have time to screw with the West. Let them drown in their own blood.

Right. The sad thing about the boots on the ground approach is that it's basically perpetual. You see this attitude in people like John "Ransom" Bolton and John McCain, who question pulling out "too soon" from Iraq - which really just means staying in perpetually anyway.

[Peter1469]

Right. The sad thing about the boots on the ground approach is that it's basically perpetual. You see this attitude in people like John "Ransom" Bolton and John McCain, who question pulling out "too soon" from Iraq - which really just means staying in perpetually anyway.

We are good at defeating armies. That is easy. The nation building fetish is what kills us. Not only are we bad at it, it is foolish to try.

[Mac-7]

Right. The sad thing about the boots on the ground approach is that it's basically perpetual. You see this attitude in people like John "Ransom" Bolton and John McCain, who question pulling out "too soon" from Iraq - which really just means staying in perpetually anyway.

The situation in Iraq was stable when Bush left office.

Which means bush won the war but Obama lost the peace.

The Iraqis are Muslims.

and in fact the most wacko form of Muslims - Arabs.

so nation building is a dumb idea.

maybe zoo keeper is a better description.

keeping the animals inside the cage where they can't eat anyone.

but Obama pulled out and left the gate open.

[Peter1469]

The situation in Iraq was stable when Bush left office.

Which means bush won the war but Obama lost the peace.

The Iraqis are Muslims.

and in fact the most wacko form of Muslims - Arabs.

so nation building is a dumb idea.

maybe zoo keeper is a better description.

keeping the animals inside the cage where they can't eat anyone.

but Obama pulled out and left the gate open.

The situation in Iraq was never stable under Bush but for the fact that a hundred thousand US troops were there. Iraq was destined to immediately go unstable once US forces left. Our fetish for nation building blinded us to the fact that Iraq was never a nation in the real sense of the term.

[Mac-7]

Iraq was destined to immediately go unstable once US forces left.

Then don't go.

can you imagine defeating Nazi Germany or imperial Japan without sticking around to manage the peace?

i can't.

[texan]

This is probably one of the few times I'll agree with Cigar, but frankly texan, you're full of it. Barely a week ago you were demanding Obama act against ISIL, and now that he does it, you're condemning him for acting on ISIL. You are a perfect example of what's wrong with American politics. You are so damn blinded by partisanship that you are really the one turning any way the wind blows based purely on what the opposite side is doing.

Bullshit!

I SAID DON't GO, THE END!

Nice job failing greeny....Peter want to confirm since you and I talked about this one? See the problem with you greeny is you are already at your young age an ideologue and it makes you assumptive. Open your mind up read and listen. You'll find that I don't subscribe to the Republican Party and my beliefs, as much as you incorrectly think, don't line up with theirs. I think for myself.

My problem with Obama is his obvious hypocrisy. Do you want to debate what he has said on all of this over time? Cause we will get a referee and go to the facts? It is crystal clear! Finally, be careful agreeing with Cigar, he hasn't had an original thought on politics in his life. I could make his uninformed cut and paste posts. I could also taunt everyone. I could also make things up. That is hardly intellectual thinking.

[texan]

I have no problem with the bombing campaign. I have a problem telling Americans that the goal is to destroy the Islamic State.


This bombing has zero percent chance of doing that.


Good points as you and I discussed previously. This is not about winning its about appearance, performance polls and political pressure. Nothing has changed with ISIS from June till now except three beheadings. Polls showed him dropping after those beheadings and all the sudden we needed to do something.


Like I said in our discussion, it wouldn't matter if you are for or completely against, right or wrong don't come with a half in half out plan and fill us with fluffy BS like we are gonna win.


I said don't do it.


I saw bushs speech at the UN and I saw his speech and 90% the same content and in the10% there wasn't an earth shattering difference. Strikingly similar. This is political!

[Peter1469]

Then don't go.

can you imagine defeating Nazi Germany or imperial Japan without sticking around to manage the peace?

i can't.

Germany and Japan were nations in the technical sense.

Do you understand the difference with Iraq and Afghanistan? And now Syria?

Hint. The word nation, in English, has a meaning. I suggest you look it up.

[texan]

I don't understand why the Obama supporters stick to their guns on some obvious stuff relating to the Iraq/terrorist issue. It makes them look desperate.

Obama's own words are damning in hypocrisy. It isn't even close, he sounds like two different people depending on the news cycle and polling.

[Mac-7]

Germany and Japan were nations in the technical sense.

Do you understand the difference with Iraq and Afghanistan? And now Syria?

Hint. The word nation, in English, has a meaning. I suggest you look it up.

If you have a point to make then make rather than merely hinting at a cogent argument.

[Peter1469]

If you have a point to make then make rather than merely hinting at a cogent argument.

Sorry. I wasn't hinting at anything. But, public school education sucks. So I will back up.

A nation is a group of people who share a common culture, religion, language, etc.

A state is lines on a map.

The middle east is made up of states created after WWI. There are no true nations in the Middle East. Especially in the Levant- the area at issue now. They are a collection of tribes and they don't understand the word nation. And they don't care.

So to jump ahead- our nation building in Iraq (and Afghanistan) had zero % chance of working from the get go. There is no nation there to build.

Does that help?

[Mac-7]

Sorry. I wasn't hinting at anything. But, public school education sucks. So I will back up.

A nation is a group of people who share a common culture, religion, language, etc.

A state is lines on a map.



So we need to break up Switzerland?

[Green Arrow]

The situation in Iraq was stable when Bush left office.

Which means bush won the war but Obama lost the peace.

The Iraqis are Muslims.

and in fact the most wacko form of Muslims - Arabs.

so nation building is a dumb idea.

maybe zoo keeper is a better description.

keeping the animals inside the cage where they can't eat anyone.

but Obama pulled out and left the gate open.

How do you plan to pay for perpetual occupation when our economy is swirling the bowl?

[Green Arrow]

Bullshit!

I SAID DON't GO, THE END!

Nice job failing greeny....Peter want to confirm since you and I talked about this one? See the problem with you greeny is you are already at your young age an ideologue and it makes you assumptive. Open your mind up read and listen. You'll find that I don't subscribe to the Republican Party and my beliefs, as much as you incorrectly think, don't line up with theirs. I think for myself.

My problem with Obama is his obvious hypocrisy. Do you want to debate what he has said on all of this over time? Cause we will get a referee and go to the facts? It is crystal clear! Finally, be careful agreeing with Cigar, he hasn't had an original thought on politics in his life. I could make his uninformed cut and paste posts. I could also taunt everyone. I could also make things up. That is hardly intellectual thinking.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

[Mac-7]

How do you plan to pay for perpetual occupation when our economy is swirling the bowl?

There are always social programs that can be reduced.

[Captain Obvious]

There are always social programs that can be reduced.

Your fiscal brilliance is... well, overwhelming.

Not in a good way either.

:biglaugh:

[Mac-7]

Your fiscal brilliance is... well, overwhelming.

Not in a good way either.

:biglaugh:

Libs shouldn't ask if they are too delicate to hear my answer.

[texan]

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.


Great response! How about I lied or I didnt know what I was talking about or I misspoke?


Nah Nah just another Bullshit response. Nice going greeny, note yourself don't make shit up to fit your argument!

Remember the other day on the Neocons? Remember saying you were right? Supporting your argument. Yeah I don't have an agenda. When you are right I say you are right, you are wrong I say you are wrong. If its an opinion I debate it and I might debate an opposite opinion whether I believe in it or not, thats how we learn.

[Cigar]

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/2111944960/h56E87DD1/ (http://cheezburger.com/2111944960)

[nic34]

There are always social programs that can be reduced.

Taken out on kids and seniors no doubt....

[Peter1469]

So we need to break up Switzerland?

That is a silly question to ask me. Ask the Swiss. I would hazard a guess- no.

No are you going to respond to my comment or just play like you are smart?

[Mac-7]

Taken out on kids and seniors no doubt....

No, start with able bodied adult that up yo now have been too lazy to work.

[Green Arrow]

Great response! How about I lied or I didnt know what I was talking about or I misspoke?


Nah Nah just another Bullshit response. Nice going greeny, note yourself don't make shit up to fit your argument!

Remember the other day on the Neocons? Remember saying you were right? Supporting your argument. Yeah I don't have an agenda. When you are right I say you are right, you are wrong I say you are wrong. If its an opinion I debate it and I might debate an opposite opinion whether I believe in it or not, thats how we learn.

What's the point, texan? I know what you said. You want to abandon it now, go ahead.

[Green Arrow]

There are always social programs that can be reduced.

We're in crippling debt, Mac. Reducing spending is a good start, but it's not the grand solution to our problems. Keep going.

[Mac-7]

That is a silly question to ask me. Ask the Swiss. I would hazard a guess- no.

No are you going to respond to my comment or just play like you are smart?

Im not sure whet your question is.

by your definition Switzerland is not a nation but merely a state.

so substitute state for nation in the Middle East and proceed from there.

i also regret the idea that America could ever tame and civilize Iraq.

there are just too many crazy Arabs there.

but saddam and Assad a kadaffi knew how to make the Arabs behave and we should find another strongman for Iraq to take that job over from us.

[Peter1469]

Im not sure whet your question is.

by your definition Switzerland is not a nation but merely a state.

so substitute state for nation in the Middle East and proceed from there.

i also regret the idea that America could ever tame and civilize Iraq.

there are just too many crazy Arabs there.

but saddam and Assad a kadaffi knew how to make the Arabs behave and we should find another strongman for Iraq to take that job over from us.


You are just being difficult. The Swiss seem to be able to make their non-nation status work in the context of a state.

Yes or no. If you can't answer that simple question stop reading.

Now. Both in Afghanistan and Iraq. Any clue about whether they can live nicely together under one state? If you say yes you are something that the rules prevent me from saying. Actually several different things.


Go back and review what a nation is. What a state is. And come back and post something that makes sense, even if it hurts your feelings to be forced to say something rational. For once.

[texan]

We're in crippling debt, Mac. Reducing spending is a good start, but it's not the grand solution to our problems. Keep going.

New management would be a good start. I am for term limits to kickoff this event.

Get these bums out every 6 to 8 years.

Bring in a 3rd party to do campaign finance reform and how perks are managed. Someone than can be trusted by all. A Ross Perot type.

Reform these damn pensions that everone is getting. It used to be people took government jobs for the retirement and benefits even tho it paid less. Well thats out the window now. The pay better and you still get the red carpet treatment on benefits infancy to death.

Stop crushing the job creators with taxes and regulation. You want jobs? Provide incentives. The democratic party has declared war on business over the years. Don;t understand that except someone must be paying them a lot on teh side to do it.

[Mac-7]

We're in crippling debt, Mac. Reducing spending is a good start, but it's not the grand solution to our problems. Keep going.

I don't disagree that we have large deficits.

But ignoring security threats today only ends up costing money later on.

look at the current situation in Iraq.

obama thought he was home free when pulled out but now he's stuck in that tar pit on e again.

[Common Sense]

If gas wont put out that fire you started...use more gas!!!

[Mac-7]

You are just being difficult. The Swiss seem to be able to make their non-nation status work in the context of a state.

Yes or no. If you can't answer that simple question stop reading.

Now. Both in Afghanistan and Iraq. Any clue about whether they can live nicely together under one state? If you say yes you are something that the rules prevent me from saying. Actually several different things.


Go back and review what a nation is. What a state is. And come back and post something that makes sense, even if it hurts your feelings to be forced to say something rational. For once.


You seem to be beating a dead horse since I agree with you that dragging the Arabs and afghans into the 21 Century was a mission impossible.

but that does not mean it is a good idea to allow and even crazier group like Isis to occupy the vacuum Obama left behind.

[donttread]

This administration is truly amazing. The have no shame as they go where the wind blows. When you look at everything the man ran on, everything the dem party lied about on war and then watch him remake George Bush's speech damn near word for word it screams hypocrisy.

He he stood at the UN and bragged exactly one year before how he decimated Al Qaeda. Then this week twisted the Iraq war act to justify his actions. 7 years before he was against the act for all the reasons I won't get into.

Unbelieveable.


Funny how despite all the rhetoric he acts the same as Bush