The U.S. will pay the Navajo Nation $554 million to end royalties suit

[nic34]

The U.S. will pay the Navajo Nation $554 million to settle the tribe's 8-year-old lawsuit claiming that the government mismanaged *royalties on tribal mineral-resource contracts for decades.

The settlement, scheduled to be signed Friday in a ceremony in Window Rock, calls for the largest government payout ever to an individual tribe.

Navajo Nation President Ben Shelly said in an e-mail that the deal is "a *victory for tribal sovereignty." Administration officials, meanwhile, cited it as further proof of President Obama's *efforts to honor relationships between U.S. and tribal governments.

---


But the settlement preserves the tribe's right to pursue water-rights claims and to pursue relief for environmental or health impacts from historical uranium mining on or near the *Navajo reservation.

The settlement also does not diminish the tribe's hunting, fishing, trapping and gathering rights, among other *provisions.

Officials from the departments of Justice and Interior and the Bureau of Indian Affairs are scheduled to be on hand Friday to sign the agreement.

U.S. Rep. Ann Kirkpatrick, a Democrat whose district includes the Arizona portion of the Navajo Reservation, said in an e-mail that she was pleased by the settlement.


http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2014/09/25/us-will-pay-navajo-nation-m-end-royalties-suit/16192729/


Finally, some justice....

[Cigar]

The Only Type of Justus people understand is Monetary Justus

[Captain Obvious]

Those tribes are fucking crooks, they should be paying taxes.

Progressive pussy PC bullshit, let them pay the fines.

[Private Pickle]

Finally, some justice....

This lawsuit had nothing to do with the injustices in the 19th century...

[nic34]

Those tribes are fucking crooks, they should be paying taxes.

Progressive pussy PC bullshit, let them pay the fines.

So can the US come over to your place and extract whatever resources and pay you pennies on the dollar for them?

If you get radiation poisoning in the process should you have to pay for your own health costs?


http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2012/09/24/elections-2012-myth-never-leaves-indians-dont-pay-taxes-135495


http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/7871

[Captain Obvious]

So can the US come over to your place and extract whatever resources and pay you pennies on the dollar for them?

If you get radiation poisoning in the process should you have to pay for your own health costs?



http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/7871

So do neanderthals have a lawsuit against the American Injun?

This is the idiocy that is liberalism. At some point enough is enough. We're past that point.

[nic34]

This lawsuit had nothing to do with the injustices in the 19th century...

Didn't say it did.

The tribe sued in 2006, charging that the federal government had mishandled royalties since at least 1946 from oil, gas, coal, uranium and other mineral leases it held in trust for the tribe.

Keep up.

[Matty]

So can the US come over to your place and extract whatever resources and pay you pennies on the dollar for them?

If you get radiation poisoning in the process should you have to pay for your own health costs?


http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2012/09/24/elections-2012-myth-never-leaves-indians-dont-pay-taxes-135495


http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/7871


They did it to the GM shareholders and the holders of GM debt and to the GM dealerships. You didn't bitch about that!

[Cigar]

What Goes Around Comes Around :grin:

[nic34]

So do neanderthals have a lawsuit against the American Injun?

This is the idiocy that is liberalism. At some point enough is enough. We're past that point.

Going to extremes doesn't help your credibility.

[Captain Obvious]

They did it to the GM shareholders and the holders of GM debt and to the GM dealerships. You didn't bitch about that!

Of course not, union thugs benefited.

[Private Pickle]

Didn't say it did.

The tribe sued in 2006, charging that the federal government had mishandled royalties since at least 1946 from oil, gas, coal, uranium and other mineral leases it held in trust for the tribe.

Keep up.

Yeah. I'm sure you've been following the plight of the American Indian concerning the "mishandling royalties" since the beginning.

"Finally!"

:grin:

[nic34]

They did it to the GM shareholders and the holders of GM debt and to the GM dealerships. You didn't bitch about that!

How do you know?

[Private Pickle]

So do neanderthals have a lawsuit against the American Injun?

This is the idiocy that is liberalism. At some point enough is enough. We're past that point.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1y_0NfhF9c

[Captain Obvious]

Yeah. I'm sure you've been following the plight of the American Indian concerning the "mishandling royalties" since the beginning.

"Finally!"

:grin:

My point though wasn't on the topic of royalties - that's simply a matter of law definition probably for the most part.

My point is that these freeloaders who get taxpayer paid entitlements, military protection, access to infrastructure, pay no taxes and profiteer from gambling, gasoline and cigarette rackets need to start paying taxes.

Enough is enough.

[nic34]

Yeah. I'm sure you've been following the plight of the American Indian concerning the "mishandling royalties" since the beginning.

"Finally!"

:grin:

Ummm, I kinda do, because it's in the news everywhere here....

[nic34]

My point though wasn't on the topic of royalties - that's simply a matter of law definition probably for the most part.

My point is that these freeloaders who get taxpayer paid entitlements, military protection, access to infrastructure, pay no taxes and profiteer from gambling, gasoline and cigarette rackets need to start paying taxes.

Enough is enough.

You're wrong.

^^^ look at the links^^^

[Chris]

The U.S. will pay the Navajo Nation $554 million to settle the tribe's 8-year-old lawsuit claiming that the government mismanaged *royalties on tribal mineral-resource contracts for decades.

The settlement, scheduled to be signed Friday in a ceremony in Window Rock, calls for the largest government payout ever to an individual tribe.

Navajo Nation President Ben Shelly said in an e-mail that the deal is "a *victory for tribal sovereignty." Administration officials, meanwhile, cited it as further proof of President Obama's *efforts to honor relationships between U.S. and tribal governments.

---


But the settlement preserves the tribe's right to pursue water-rights claims and to pursue relief for environmental or health impacts from historical uranium mining on or near the *Navajo reservation.

The settlement also does not diminish the tribe's hunting, fishing, trapping and gathering rights, among other *provisions.

Officials from the departments of Justice and Interior and the Bureau of Indian Affairs are scheduled to be on hand Friday to sign the agreement.

U.S. Rep. Ann Kirkpatrick, a Democrat whose district includes the Arizona portion of the Navajo Reservation, said in an e-mail that she was pleased by the settlement.


http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2014/09/25/us-will-pay-navajo-nation-m-end-royalties-suit/16192729/


Finally, some justice....


It's about time.

For an introduction to our government's long mistreatment and mismanagement of Indians, see The Culture of Violence in the American West: Myth versus Reality (http://www.independent.org/publications/tir/article.asp?a=803): "Abstract Contrary to popular perception, the Old West was much more peaceful than American cities are today. The real culture of violence on the frontier during the latter half of the nineteenth century sprang from the U.S. government’s policies toward the Plains Indians."

[Matty]

How do you know?
Because you are a left wing nut job and very predictable.

[nic34]

chris, at least someone gets it.

The natives stick it to uncle sam and the replies here are not about that, but just more racism.

[Private Pickle]

It's about time.



:smiley_ROFLMAO:

[Captain Obvious]

chris, at least someone gets it.

The natives stick it to uncle sam and the replies here are not about that, but just more racism.

Fuck you and your "racism" bullshit.

Go peddle that shit somewhere else.

[Private Pickle]

chris, at least someone gets it.

The natives stick it to uncle sam and the replies here are not about that, but just more racism.

They are sticking it to you! That's the ironic part that you are missing.

[nic34]

Because you are a left wing nut job and very predictable.

"What about them" is not an argument.

Neither is name calling.

Does anyone like you?

[Cigar]

Not a Good Week for them ... :laugh: they're starting to loose it ... :grin:

[nic34]

Not a Good Week for them ... :laugh: they're starting to loose it ... :grin:

Lot of hate goin' on here....

[Gunny]

It's about time.

For an introduction to our government's long mistreatment and mismanagement of Indias, see The Culture of Violence in the American West: Myth versus Reality (http://www.independent.org/publications/tir/article.asp?a=803): "Abstract Contrary to popular perception, the Old West was much more peaceful than American cities are today. The real culture of violence on the frontier during the latter half of the nineteenth century sprang from the U.S. government’s policies toward the Plains Indians."

Tell that to the Anasazi, the Mound People, The Karankawas, the Coahuilticans, et al. Those indians that the people we perceive as indians killed off? Oh, they were a peaceful lot. The Coman-tse, Kiowa, Apache, Blackfoot, Sioux ...:rollseyes:

[Private Pickle]

Lot of hate goin' on here....

8967

[Cigar]

Look at the bright side .. tomorrow is Friday :laugh:

[Chris]

:smiley_ROFLMAO:

From op link: "The tribe sued in 2006, charging that the federal government had mishandled royalties since at least 1946 from oil, gas, coal, uranium and other mineral leases it held in trust for the tribe."

The government made a contract and then broke it.

[Chris]

Tell that to the Anasazi, the Mound People, The Karankawas, the Coahuilticans, et al. Those indians that the people we perceive as indians killed off? Oh, they were a peaceful lot. The Coman-tse, Kiowa, Apache, Blackfoot, Sioux ...:rollseyes:

Not saying they were peaceful but were driven to it by our government.

[Chris]

They are sticking it to you! That's the ironic part that you are missing.

A problem with government again. It fucks people over, and we get screwed for it.

[Captain Obvious]

From op link: "The tribe sued in 2006, charging that the federal government had mishandled royalties since at least 1946 from oil, gas, coal, uranium and other mineral leases it held in trust for the tribe."

The government made a contract and then broke it.

Who's arguing against that?

I'm not.

[nic34]

From op link: "The tribe sued in 2006, charging that the federal government had mishandled royalties since at least 1946 from oil, gas, coal, uranium and other mineral leases it held in trust for the tribe."

The government made a contract and then broke it.

But it's ok, they're just injuns...

[Captain Obvious]

Not saying they were peaceful but were driven to it by our government.

Yes, Indians, slavery - all products of an evil country, by evil men.

...how many generations ago?

At some point all this shit has to stop. I'm sick of paying for shit, paying to people who have suffered no wrongdoing for things I did not do wrong.

Let these fucking progressive pussies pay these fucking freeloaders then if they're hearts are bleeding.

[Chris]

Yes, Indians, slavery - all products of an evil country, by evil men.

...how many generations ago?

At some point all this shit has to stop. I'm sick of paying for shit, paying to people who have suffered no wrongdoing for things I did not do wrong.

Let these fucking progressive pussies pay these fucking freeloaders then if they're hearts are bleeding.


Nobel Peace Prize winner Barack Obama bombs his 7th country in 6 years (http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/32363-Nobel-Peace-Prize-winner-Barack-Obama-bombs-his-7th-country-in-6-years).

It never ends.

Not men, government, power corrupts, absolutely.

[nic34]

Yes, Indians, slavery - all products of an evil country, by evil men.

...how many generations ago?

At some point all this shit has to stop. I'm sick of paying for shit, paying to people who have suffered no wrongdoing for things I did not do wrong.

Let these fucking progressive pussies pay these fucking freeloaders then if they're hearts are bleeding.


Bad day?

[Captain Obvious]

Bad day?

Punting?

[Captain Obvious]

Nobel Peace Prize winner Barack Obama bombs his 7th country in 6 years (http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/32363-Nobel-Peace-Prize-winner-Barack-Obama-bombs-his-7th-country-in-6-years).

It never ends.

Not men, government, power corrupts, absolutely.

Ok - so it's ok to pay people who suffer no wrongdoing (from people who did no wrong) because we're bombing terrorists?

Want to rephrase that point?

It's MY (and yours) tax dollars paying these people btw, not a corrupt powerful gubmint's.

[Chris]

Ok - so it's ok to pay people who suffer no wrongdoing (from people who did no wrong) because we're bombing terrorists?

Want to rephrase that point?

It's MY (and yours) tax dollars paying these people btw, not a corrupt powerful gubmint's.


Government made a contract concerning royalties and mismanaged it.

Taxes are coercive, try not paying them.

[nic34]

Punting?

I think in order for non-natives to have respect for natives, they first must learn to have respect for themselves.

[Captain Obvious]

Government made a contract concerning royalties and mismanaged it.

Taxes are coercive, try not paying them.

We're beyond the royalty issue - I am at least. For the third time, I'm not arguing royalties.

And you still dodged the "is it right then" question. Yes I know how taxes work, beyond that, philosophically is it right for us to pay for shit we had nothing to do with to people who suffered no wrongdoing?

[Captain Obvious]

I think in order for non-natives to have respect for natives, they first must learn to have respect for themselves.

As a native American I couldn't agree more.

Now physician, heal thyself.

[Private Pickle]

Who's arguing against that?

I'm not.

/shrug

[Chris]

We're beyond the royalty issue - I am at least. For the third time, I'm not arguing royalties.

And you still dodged the "is it right then" question. Yes I know how taxes work, beyond that, philosophically is it right for us to pay for shit we had nothing to do with to people who suffered no wrongdoing?

I answered the is it right question, you just don't seem to like it and want to dismiss the broken contract over royalties. Just look at the facts in the case, it gets even worse.

UNITED STATES v. NAVAJO NATION (http://www.oyez.org/cases/2000-2009/2008/2008_07_1410)


In 1964 the Navajo Nation entered into a contract with Sentry Royalty Company for the mining of coal on its land. The contract called for royalty payments to the Navajo Nation not to exceed 37.5 cents per ton of coal mined. However, the contract allowed for the Secretary of the Interior to adjust the royalty rate to a "reasonable" level after twenty years. At the end of twenty years, the Navajo Nation was being paid the equivalent of 2 percent of the proceeds from the mining operation. As stipulated by the contract, the Navajo Nation entered into discussions with Peabody Coal Company (formerly Sentry Royalty Company) to adjust the royalty rate. After discussions failed, the Navajo Nation asked the Secretary of the Interior to resolve the dispute. The Department of the Interior's Bureau of Indian Affairs reached an initial decision to set the royalty rate at 20 percent. This decision was delayed on the recommendation of the Secretary of the Interior. Unbeknownst to the Navajo Nation, the Secretary had been meeting with executives of the Peabody Coal Company who requested the delay. Facing dire economic circumstances, the Navajo Nation agreed to a royalty rate of 12.5 percent which was approved by the Secretary of the Interior.

In 1993, the Navajo Nation brought suit against the United States for violations of its statutory and fiduciary duties to the Nation. It sought damages of $600 million. This latest decision by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit represents the fifth chapter in the long running saga over the original dispute. Its decision comes in the wake of the U.S. Court of Federal Claims holding, on instructions from the Supreme Court, that the Navajo Nation did not provide sufficient evidence to seek damages from the United States.

The Court of Appeals disagreed. It held that the Navajo Nation marshaled sufficient evidence to show that the United States "controls the leasing of the [Navajo's] coal resources and that the government is responsible for the liabilities arising thereunder." It reasoned that the body of regulations and statutes that governed the Nation's resources were "reasonably amenable" to an interpretation that imposed liability on the part of the government for breach of its duties....

The court voted 9-0 on it.

[nic34]

We're beyond the royalty issue - I am at least. For the third time, I'm not arguing royalties.

And you still dodged the "is it right then" question. Yes I know how taxes work, beyond that, philosophically is it right for us to pay for shit we had nothing to do with to people who suffered no wrongdoing?

Uranium mining pollution they experienced for decades they are still experiencing today.

[Captain Obvious]

Uranium mining pollution they experienced for decades they are still experiencing today.

And citizens of WV have high cancer rates due to the mercury and other emissions from coal fired plants, so what's your point?

[Captain Obvious]

I answered the is it right question, you just don't seem to like it and want to dismiss the broken contract over royalties. Just look at the facts in the case, it gets even worse.

UNITED STATES v. NAVAJO NATION (http://www.oyez.org/cases/2000-2009/2008/2008_07_1410)



The court voted 9-0 on it.

lol! 4th time, I'm not disputing the royalty issue, I agree - they deserve to win it.

Dismissed.

[Private Pickle]

I think in order for non-natives to have respect for natives, they first must learn to have respect for themselves.

I read that on a Fortune Cookie once.

[nic34]

And citizens of WV have high cancer rates due to the mercury and other emissions from coal fired plants, so what's your point?

We owe them better too.

[Captain Obvious]

We owe them better too.

You sure punt a lot.

I'm going to start calling you "The Cleveland Brown".

:biglaugh:

[Common Sense]

We're beyond the royalty issue - I am at least. For the third time, I'm not arguing royalties.

And you still dodged the "is it right then" question. Yes I know how taxes work, beyond that, philosophically is it right for us to pay for shit we had nothing to do with to people who suffered no wrongdoing?

...and yet have still profited off said wrongdoing?

We as a generation may have had nothing to do with it, yet we still live on their lands and profit from what was taken from them. So yes, it is right.

[Captain Obvious]

...and yet have still profited off said wrongdoing?

We as a generation may have had nothing to do with it, yet we still live on their lands and profit from what was taken from them. So yes, it is right.

And they aren't benefiting from this whole USA thing too?

And slaves? Things were better roaming the plains and jungles waiting to be taken over by someone far more brutal than us like Islamofascists?

Puh-leeze.....

http://poetsandquants.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/rejected.jpg

[Common Sense]

And they aren't benefiting from this whole USA thing too?

And slaves? Things were better roaming the plains and jungles waiting to be taken over by someone far more brutal than us like Islamofascists?

Puh-leeze.....



Ohh, fancy stamp.

Islamofascits...yeah, that's was the only alternative.

[Captain Obvious]

Ohh, fancy stamp.

Islamofascits...yeah, that's was the only alternative.

And he gets the punt away...

[Common Sense]

And he gets the punt away...

Yawn...

[Captain Obvious]

Yawn...

Well, you could address my point or just continue dodging it but at the end of the day you failed to provide sufficient retort.

[Chris]

lol! 4th time, I'm not disputing the royalty issue, I agree - they deserve to win it.

Dismissed.

Then you're not being very articulate what you are urging about. Let me know when you figure it out.

The royalties were the issue.

[Common Sense]

Well, you could address my point or just continue dodging it but at the end of the day you failed to provide sufficient retort.

Your ridiculous and hypothetical alternative? Or the fact that former salves and the conquered natives should thank us all? Or the fancy stamp?

They all seemed rhetorical to me...

[Captain Obvious]

Your ridiculous and hypothetical alternative? Or the fact that former salves and the conquered natives should thank us all? Or the fancy stamp?

They all seemed rhetorical to me...

Alternative?

What alternative?

You're suggesting that I owe native Americans and descendants of slaves a royalty for all the accrued benefits we're reaping today and I'm saying they owe us an admission fee for the opportunity to be taken from a virtually guaranteed life of suffering and poverty to one that has opportunity and wealth.

Funny how you find one end of that absurdity acceptable but the other end of that absurdity absurd.

[Captain Obvious]

Then you're not being very articulate what you are urging about. Let me know when you figure it out.

The royalties were the issue.

Go back to sleep.

We agree on the royalties thing.

[Common Sense]

Alternative?

What alternative?

You're suggesting that I owe native Americans and descendants of slaves a royalty for all the accrued benefits we're reaping today and I'm saying they owe us an admission fee for the opportunity to be taken from a virtually guaranteed life of suffering and poverty to one that has opportunity and wealth.

Funny how you find one end of that absurdity acceptable but the other end of that absurdity absurd.

The alternative of Islamofascism. As if there were just those two choices.

Did you ever consider they liked their way of life? They were probably happier than they are today.

So they traded pristine hunting grounds and a life close to nature for what? The opportunity to work a 9-5, have a TV, pay taxes and get fat?

[Chris]

Go back to sleep.

We agree on the royalties thing.

So what are you arguing about? Do you even know?

[Common Sense]

So what are you arguing about? Do you even know?

Anything he can...

[Chris]

Alternative?

What alternative?

You're suggesting that I owe native Americans and descendants of slaves a royalty for all the accrued benefits we're reaping today and I'm saying they owe us an admission fee for the opportunity to be taken from a virtually guaranteed life of suffering and poverty to one that has opportunity and wealth.

Funny how you find one end of that absurdity acceptable but the other end of that absurdity absurd.

Is this the nonsesnse you're arguing?

The government cheated the Navaho over royalties, you even agree on that.

They owe us for the lousy way our government treated them? Lol.

Slavery has nothing to do with topic.

[nic34]

The alternative of Islamofascism. As if there were just those two choices.

Did you ever consider they liked their way of life? They were probably happier than they are today.

So they traded pristine hunting grounds and a life close to nature for what? The opportunity to work a 9-5, have a TV, pay taxes and get fat?

Yes they should thank the government for their high class life style and their re-education into good American citizens.

http://www.californiaindianeducation.org/indian_boarding_schools/pictures/Carlisle_Indian_School.jpg

[nic34]

http://media.salon.com/2013/04/native-americans-guns1-620x322.jpg

[Captain Obvious]

So what are you arguing about? Do you even know?

Go back and read the last page or two, it's pretty clear.

You're like the old man who keeps asking someone who they are and no matter how many times this person says "It's Gregg" he gets asked the same question again and again.

[Captain Obvious]

The alternative of Islamofascism. As if there were just those two choices.

Did you ever consider they liked their way of life? They were probably happier than they are today.

I fail to see how that's my problem to the extent that I have to fund it.


So they traded pristine hunting grounds and a life close to nature for what? The opportunity to work a 9-5, have a TV, pay taxes and get fat?

Again, I fail to see how this is my concern.

What happened happened, for good or for bad and arguing the good and bad things about it is meaningless.

But to sit there and suggest that it's MY fault this happened and I am the one responsible for justifying it - sorry, you fail.

You want retroactive justice for these people, you fund it.

[Chris]

Go back and read the last page or two, it's pretty clear.

It's pretty clear you're just being obnoxious.

[Captain Obvious]

It's pretty clear you're just being obnoxious.

For someone who whines about personal attacks you sure know how to dish them out.

Care to add something of value to the current discussion or are you just going to heckle from the peanut gallery?

[Common Sense]

I fail to see how that's my problem to the extent that I have to fund it.



Again, I fail to see how this is my concern.

What happened happened, for good or for bad and arguing the good and bad things about it is meaningless.

But to sit there and suggest that it's MY fault this happened and I am the one responsible for justifying it - sorry, you fail.

You want retroactive justice for these people, you fund it.

I never suggested it was your fault...maybe a quick re read would help you out.

Nah, you can fund it....and cry about it.

[Captain Obvious]

I never suggested it was your fault...maybe a quick re read would help you out.

Nah, you can fund it....and cry about it.

So now connect those dots.

I know it's a difficult step for liberals but give it a try.

If it's not my fault, why is it my responsibility?

That's a loaded question btw and you already answered it. A fundamental tenant of liberalism is that liberals are the ones who decide what I'm financially responsible for as long as it provides "social justice" (someone elses social justice, certainly not mine).

[Chris]

For someone who whines about personal attacks you sure know how to dish them out.

Care to add something of value to the current discussion or are you just going to heckle from the peanut gallery?


So now you lie about me? Pathetic.

I've presented arguments.

You seem to be having trouble.

[Captain Obvious]

So now you lie about me? Pathetic.

I've presented arguments.

You seem to be having trouble.

You're welcome to add to the discussion at hand.

Or, unfortunately as you are now you can continue to disrupt it.

Your choice.

[Chris]

So now connect those dots.

I know it's a difficult step for liberals but give it a try.

If it's not my fault, why is it my responsibility?

That's a loaded question btw and you already answered it. A fundamental tenant of liberalism is that liberals are the ones who decide what I'm financially responsible for as long as it provides "social justice" (someone elses social justice, certainly not mine).


In the case of the Navaho it is the government you liberally support who made a contract and broke it. In supporting that government you are responsible.

[Captain Obvious]

In the case of the Navaho it is the government you liberally support who made a contract and broke it. In supporting that government you are responsible.

Chris - we're not talking about royalties.

Go back and read the last page or two. Seriously, whole other discussion going on here.

[Chris]

You're welcome to add to the discussion at hand.

Or, unfortunately as you are now you can continue to disrupt it.

Your choice.

And you are adding what with your continued obnoxiousness?

You've been presented arguments. Obnoxiousness is not a counter.

[Chris]

Chris - we're not talking about royalties.

Go back and read the last page or two. Seriously, whole other discussion going on here.

Who put you in charge of discussion?

Just more obnoxiousness when you've got no argument.

[Captain Obvious]

And you are adding what with your continued obnoxiousness?

You've been presented arguments. Obnoxiousness is not a counter.

Sorry, I'm going to report you if you continue to derail the discussion.

You're welcome to go back and catch up on what's being discussed and join in. If you're not interested in doing that I would appreciate it if you would allow us to continue the discussion in peace without harassment.

Thank you

[Common Sense]

So now connect those dots.

I know it's a difficult step for liberals but give it a try.

If it's not my fault, why is it my responsibility?

That's a loaded question btw and you already answered it. A fundamental tenant of liberalism is that liberals are the ones who decide what I'm financially responsible for as long as it provides "social justice" (someone elses social justice, certainly not mine).

It's the fault of the Nation...as a citizen of that nation with all of its rights and privileges, you bear a small portion of the responsibility.

The same goes for me...

[Chris]

It's the fault of the Nation...as a citizen of that nation with all of its rights and privileges, you bear a small portion of the responsibility.

The same goes for me...

I agree in the case of the Navaho. Not in general about Indians or slavery.

[Captain Obvious]

It's the fault of the Nation...as a citizen of that nation with all of its rights and privileges, you bear a small portion of the responsibility.

The same goes for me...

And I say bullshit, hence my rant.

They benefit from our infrastructure, our military protection, our laws, they receive entitlements and they get to run shady gambling, gasoline and tobacco rackets.

At what point does all this go away and they simply become US citizens?

Here's the answer - never. Why would they shit on their free lunch as long as people like you are willing to pay for it.

[nic34]

Chris - we're not talking about royalties.

Go back and read the last page or two. Seriously, whole other discussion going on here.

Those very royalties you don't disagree with are what could help natives live better without our tax money. How can you not see the connection?

[Captain Obvious]

Those very royalties you don't disagree with are what could help natives live better without our tax money. How can you not see the connection?

Are you in the same nursing home as Chris?

I agree with the royalty decision.

5th time.

I'm guessing the 6th time is only 15 minutes away.

[Common Sense]

And I say bullshit, hence my rant.

They benefit from our infrastructure, our military protection, our laws, they receive entitlements and they get to run shady gambling, gasoline and tobacco rackets.

At what point does all this go away and they simply become US citizens?

Here's the answer - never. Why would they shit on their free lunch as long as people like you are willing to pay for it.

Yes, it is a rant...you feel some sort of injustice has been done to you. The irony is palpable through the monitor.

[nic34]

Are you in the same nursing home as Chris?

I agree with the royalty decision.

5th time.

I'm guessing the 6th time is only 15 minutes away.

Then quit crying about natives not paying taxes for their "free lunch".

Wow you're dense.

[Chris]

Are you in the same nursing home as Chris?

I agree with the royalty decision.

5th time.

I'm guessing the 6th time is only 15 minutes away.

And the obnoxiousness persists.

The topic is the royalty issue.

[Captain Obvious]

And the obnoxiousness persists.

The topic is the royalty issue.

6th time - less than 15 minutes, I agree with the royalty decision.

[Captain Obvious]

Then quit crying about natives not paying taxes for their "free lunch".

Wow you're dense.

:biglaugh:

Oh man, the irony...

[Chris]

6th time - less than 15 minutes, I agree with the royalty decision.

Then concede and stop being just plain obnoxious.

[Captain Obvious]

Then concede and stop being just plain obnoxious.

Concede what?

I agree with you on the royalties matter.

7th time now.

You're welcome to engage the other part of the discussion or continue to derail it.

[Chris]

Concede what?

I agree with you on the royalties matter.

7th time now.

You're welcome to engage the other part of the discussion or continue to derail it.

I've addressed other things you've tried to steer discussion in the direction of. I don't think anyone is following you down your road.

[Captain Obvious]

I've addressed other things you've tried to steer discussion in the direction of. I don't think anyone is following you down your road.

Super.

Care to comment on the subject matter now?

[Chris]

Super.

Care to comment on the subject matter now?

You've already conceded the topic, royalties.

[nic34]

Those tribes are fucking crooks, they should be paying taxes.

Progressive pussy PC bullshit, let them pay the fines.


Again, since you missed it the first time:

1. they do pay taxes.

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwor...y-taxes-135495


http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/7871



2. what fines are owed are the government's to pay. They lost the settlement.

3. Now with the back royalties they can help their own people as you have so eloquently insisted they do.

[Chris]

And that this is a "progressive" thing is shot down by the court's 9-0 decision.

[Captain Obvious]

You've already conceded the topic, royalties.

Then consider your point made even though I never argued the royalties aspect.

[Captain Obvious]

Again, since you missed it the first time:

1. they do pay taxes.

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwor...y-taxes-135495


http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/7871



2. what fines are owed are the government's to pay. They lost the settlement.

3. Now with the back royalties they can help their own people as you have so eloquently insisted they do.

Since you're an authority on the topic what say you now explain to us how tribes benefit from selling gas, cigarettes and why tribal casinos are all the rage? While you're at it, give us some detail on how tribal sovereignty works too. Your words, not just links but support would certainly be welcome and give your viewpoints credibility.

Again - for the 4th or 5th time, if the gubmint by agreement were required to pay those royalties then they should, I never argued that point. What they do with that royalty money is their business. What is my business and every other taxpayers is how these "sovereign" tribes benefit at our expense.

This is a pretty simple and basic concept, I don't know why you and the Chrismaster are struggling so much with it.

Maybe somebody with a little more insight and objectivity will chime in.

[nic34]

Cap, it's simple, if you don't want to pay for other people's "expenses" you at least pay the agreed to amount for their services and/or goods.

[Chris]

Since you're an authority on the topic what say you now explain to us how tribes benefit from selling gas, cigarettes and why tribal casinos are all the rage? While you're at it, give us some detail on how tribal sovereignty works too. Your words, not just links but support would certainly be welcome and give your viewpoints credibility.

Again - for the 4th or 5th time, if the gubmint by agreement were required to pay those royalties then they should, I never argued that point. What they do with that royalty money is their business. What is my business and every other taxpayers is how these "sovereign" tribes benefit at our expense.

This is a pretty simple and basic concept, I don't know why you and the Chrismaster are struggling so much with it.

Maybe somebody with a little more insight and objectivity will chime in.


Because you were being obnoxious with everyone who made the very same point.


Oh, wait, you also made this point?


Those tribes are fucking crooks, they should be paying taxes.

Progressive pussy PC bullshit, let them pay the fines.

[donttread]

The U.S. will pay the Navajo Nation $554 million to settle the tribe's 8-year-old lawsuit claiming that the government mismanaged *royalties on tribal mineral-resource contracts for decades.

The settlement, scheduled to be signed Friday in a ceremony in Window Rock, calls for the largest government payout ever to an individual tribe.

Navajo Nation President Ben Shelly said in an e-mail that the deal is "a *victory for tribal sovereignty." Administration officials, meanwhile, cited it as further proof of President Obama's *efforts to honor relationships between U.S. and tribal governments.

---


But the settlement preserves the tribe's right to pursue water-rights claims and to pursue relief for environmental or health impacts from historical uranium mining on or near the *Navajo reservation.

The settlement also does not diminish the tribe's hunting, fishing, trapping and gathering rights, among other *provisions.

Officials from the departments of Justice and Interior and the Bureau of Indian Affairs are scheduled to be on hand Friday to sign the agreement.

U.S. Rep. Ann Kirkpatrick, a Democrat whose district includes the Arizona portion of the Navajo Reservation, said in an e-mail that she was pleased by the settlement.


http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2014/09/25/us-will-pay-navajo-nation-m-end-royalties-suit/16192729/


Finally, some justice....

They mismanaged our SS for decades too. What about us? How the hell can they keep throwing money they don't have around?

[Captain Obvious]

Cap, it's simple, if you don't want to pay for other people's "expenses" you at least pay the agreed to amount for their services and/or goods.

nic - it's simple, I'm not arguing that part of the issue.

You and Chris are beyond basic comprehension.

I think neither of you can address the secondary issue I brought up and this is your way of floundering on it, which is fine but it's a poor reflection of your ability to debate a point.

Chris I expect that from, he's the master of the red herring and projecting false positions onto other people. You, I think sometimes you can be smarter than that. But maybe I'm wrong.

[Chris]

nic - it's simple, I'm not arguing that part of the issue.

You and Chris are beyond basic comprehension.

I think neither of you can address the secondary issue I brought up and this is your way of floundering on it, which is fine but it's a poor reflection of your ability to debate a point.

Chris I expect that from, he's the master of the red herring and projecting false positions onto other people. You, I think sometimes you can be smarter than that. But maybe I'm wrong.


Aw, poor cappy. Can't argue the point so argues the man.

http://i.snag.gy/qK6Kx.jpg

[nic34]

nic - it's simple, I'm not arguing that part of the issue.

You and Chris are beyond basic comprehension.

I think neither of you can address the secondary issue I brought up and this is your way of floundering on it, which is fine but it's a poor reflection of your ability to debate a point.

Chris I expect that from, he's the master of the red herring and projecting false positions onto other people. You, I think sometimes you can be smarter than that. But maybe I'm wrong.

Is your "secondary issue" part of the OP?

[Animal Mother]

The US government made a deal. Maybe the deal was made a long time ago but it's still a deal. Sucks to be us.

Other than White who's only like 1/5 injun I've never met a fucking indian in my life. That's how rare they are. Wassup with all the peeps complaining about taxes and benefits that go to less people total than you'd see at any random St. Patrick's Day parade?

I love all the bitching about tribes that make up less than a percent of the population meanwhile we're being ass raped by waste in the unwinnable drug war and all our foreign adventures. Two trillion lost never to return with the Iraq invasion because fed every contractor who ever worked for DOD.

[Chris]

The US government made a deal. Maybe the deal was made a long time ago but it's still a deal. Sucks to be us.

Other than White who's only like 1/5 injun I've never met a fucking indian in my life. That's how rare they are. Wassup with all the peeps complaining about taxes and benefits that go to less people total than you'd see at any random St. Patrick's Day parade?

I love all the bitching about tribes that make up less than a percent of the population meanwhile we're being ass raped by waste in the unwinnable drug war and all our foreign adventures. Two trillion lost never to return with the Iraq invasion because fed every contractor who ever worked for DOD.


Pretty much agree, we owe them for our sucky government breaking a deal, nothing more.

[nic34]

The US government made a deal. Maybe the deal was made a long time ago but it's still a deal. Sucks to be us.

Other than White who's only like 1/5 injun I've never met a fucking indian in my life. That's how rare they are. Wassup with all the peeps complaining about taxes and benefits that go to less people total than you'd see at any random St. Patrick's Day parade?

I love all the bitching about tribes that make up less than a percent of the population meanwhile we're being ass raped by waste in the unwinnable drug war and all our foreign adventures. Two trillion lost never to return with the Iraq invasion because fed every contractor who ever worked for DOD.

Tell it AM....., what he said.....!

[nic34]

The US government made a deal. Maybe the deal was made a long time ago but it's still a deal. Sucks to be us.

Other than White who's only like 1/5 injun I've never met a fucking indian in my life. That's how rare they are. Wassup with all the peeps complaining about taxes and benefits that go to less people total than you'd see at any random St. Patrick's Day parade?

I love all the bitching about tribes that make up less than a percent of the population meanwhile we're being ass raped by waste in the unwinnable drug war and all our foreign adventures. Two trillion lost never to return with the Iraq invasion because fed every contractor who ever worked for DOD.

Tell it AM....., what he said.....!

[Peter1469]

The US government made a deal. Maybe the deal was made a long time ago but it's still a deal. Sucks to be us.

Other than White who's only like 1/5 injun I've never met a fucking indian in my life. That's how rare they are. Wassup with all the peeps complaining about taxes and benefits that go to less people total than you'd see at any random St. Patrick's Day parade?

I love all the bitching about tribes that make up less than a percent of the population meanwhile we're being ass raped by waste in the unwinnable drug war and all our foreign adventures. Two trillion lost never to return with the Iraq invasion because fed every contractor who ever worked for DOD.

During Desert Shield/Storm, one of the paratroopers in my fire team was 100% Cherokee. He claimed that his father was a tribal chief. I have no reason to not believe him- he was the most decent human out there. He made me and 2 other of my team honorary Cherokee warriors with some sort of long ceremony that included blood.

I wasn't into that stuff back then. Now I think that is cool. For what it matters, I guess I am an honorary Cherokee warrior.

[Gunny]

Then concede and stop being just plain obnoxious.

Nope. They don't deserve sh*t. The taxes they don't pay are royalties enough. They stole the land from the people that were here before them. That's how mankind has rolled down through the centuries.

Or should we start paying people off and giving back land until each and every person on Earth is standing in the exact same spot?

[Animal Mother]

Man I'm going to disagree with Gunny but a deals a fucking deal. We have to have some honor. Oaths don't have time limits. We said we'd do it, we just don't want to do it anymore.

[Chris]

Nope. They don't deserve sh*t. The taxes they don't pay are royalties enough. They stole the land from the people that were here before them. That's how mankind has rolled down through the centuries.

Or should we start paying people off and giving back land until each and every person on Earth is standing in the exact same spot?


A deal is a deal. That's all I've argued.

I didn't argue reparations.

[Peter1469]

Can't we just let them open a casino?

[Animal Mother]

Gunny's killing me. We have to keep our honor clean. You make a deal and like it or not you roll with it.

[Peter1469]

Gunny's killing me. We have to keep our honor clean. You make a deal and like it or not you roll with it.

Not to elaborate, but didn't recent activity with some people demonstrate that is not how the world works? :shocked:

[Chris]

Let me clarify. Much earlier it was argued the nation mistreated Indians and thus owes them. The nation as its people didn't mistreat them, and certainly we now living didn't mistreat those now living. Nothing is owed.

If you read some history you'd see that, despite exceptions, for the most part settlers and Indians got along and traded. Trouble came mainly when the government stepped in. I suggest reading The Not So Wild Wild West.

But if our government made a deal we're stuck with it as long as we're stuck with our government.

[nic34]

Nope. They don't deserve sh*t. The taxes they don't pay are royalties enough. They stole the land from the people that were here before them. That's how mankind has rolled down through the centuries.

Or should we start paying people off and giving back land until each and every person on Earth is standing in the exact same spot?

I've already posted links to show that they do in fact pay taxes, so please let's dispense with that lie once and for all.

[Peter1469]

Right, government screwed everything. It is a wonder that people want government.... The west was wild but they asked how high to jump from Washington in order to become states.....

Maybe one day we get a long term experiment of non-government ... perhaps.

[Chris]

Right, government screwed everything. It is a wonder that people want government.... The west was wild but they asked how high to jump from Washington in order to become states.....

Maybe one day we get a long term experiment of non-government ... perhaps.



Generally people like the idea (theory) of government just not the reality (practice).

[nic34]

Let me clarify. Much earlier it was argued the nation mistreated Indians and thus owes them. The nation as its people didn't mistreat them, and certainly we now living didn't mistreat those now living. Nothing is owed.

If you read some history you'd see that, despite exceptions, for the most part settlers and Indians got along and traded. Trouble came mainly when the government stepped in. I suggest reading The Not So Wild Wild West.

But if our government made a deal we're stuck with it as long as we're stuck with our government.

Exactly. The OP is concerning the last few decades, not centuries, despite what some here want to turn this debate into.

Haven't we stolen enough resources here and worldwide?

[Chris]

Exactly. The OP is concerning the last few decades, not centuries, despite what some here want to turn this debate into.

Haven't we stolen enough resources here and worldwide?


Well, "we" aren't doing that, our government is, though we must pay for it.

If discussion turns any where else it ought to address the cronyism involved with the government playing favorites with mining companies.

[Animal Mother]

Generally people like the idea (theory) of government just not the reality (practice).

Most people live their whole lives believing the theory is the practice. See Mac on the CIA thread. Even when presented with evidence, he believes its still necessary.

[Chris]

Most people live their whole lives believing the theory is the practice. See Mac on the CIA thread. Even when presented with evidence, he believes its still necessary.

Yea, I've run into Mac. He thinks democracy is a good form of government because, well, it just is. Deep!

"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." ~George Washington

[Mac-7]

Exactly. The OP is concerning the last few decades, not centuries, despite what some here want to turn this debate into.

Haven't we stolen enough resources here and worldwide?

Indians (or native Americans if you prefer) were easy to take advantage of because they were so primitive.

i feel sorry for them because we took their way of life away and made them welfare bums instead of the proud hunters and warriors that they once were.

[Mac-7]

Yea, I've run into Mac. He thinks democracy is a good form of government because, well, it just is. Deep!

"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." ~George Washington

I see my reputation precedes me.

There was a reported survey recently that said less than 40% of adults could name the 3 branches of government.

maybe there are so many people on this board who do not respect our history or form of government because they do not know our history or understand our form of government.

and now they attack me because I don't care to invest hundreds of pages with links of arguments and days if not weeks of my time educating them.

but I've found that when people on the Internet believe something its almost impossible to change their mind and I have largely given up trying.

i just tell you how I see the issue and hope that little light bulb will come on someday when you are older.

[Mac-7]

Most people live their whole lives believing the theory is the practice. See Mac on the CIA thread. Even when presented with evidence, he believes its still necessary.

The CIA is very necessary.

you say you just want to replace the spies we have now with other spies who won't do bad things but that is childish.

intelligence gathering is dirty business and you wouldn't know where to begin with such an impractical transformation.

[donttread]

The US government made a deal. Maybe the deal was made a long time ago but it's still a deal. Sucks to be us.

Other than White who's only like 1/5 injun I've never met a fucking indian in my life. That's how rare they are. Wassup with all the peeps complaining about taxes and benefits that go to less people total than you'd see at any random St. Patrick's Day parade?

I love all the bitching about tribes that make up less than a percent of the population meanwhile we're being ass raped by waste in the unwinnable drug war and all our foreign adventures. Two trillion lost never to return with the Iraq invasion because fed every contractor who ever worked for DOD.

More money for the reservation or as I like to call it addiction central

[Codename Section]

Casinos excluded, how many people on this thread have spent a day on an Indian res to know about this addiction?

[Mac-7]

Casinos excluded, how many people on this thread have spent a day on an Indian res to know about this addiction?

We won't learn much about Indians in the casinos because practically no Indians ever go there except to gamble away their welfare check.

[Captain Obvious]

Casinos excluded, how many people on this thread have spent a day on an Indian res to know about this addiction?

I've seen Anthrax a couple times live, does that count?

[Codename Section]

Nope.

Natives have to go through double the paperwork and approvals to build or start businesses on the res. Regulations ( no one likes me saying this) makes it tough for small businesses to get ahead.

Indian Res?

http://www.drbukk.com/img/cms/mobile_homes/pinkpalace.jpg

Or just Mississippi?

It's not all shit and trash there. My grandma lives here:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/CheyenneReservationPhilKonstantin.jpg

http://8p4qd47fp4ia5bn1xu2am1e4f.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/312054_266597393378005_247089311995480_711431_1890 842608_n.jpg

http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2008/montana/montana_postcard_01.jpg

[nic34]

We won't learn much about Indians in the casinos because practically no Indians ever go there except to gamble away their welfare check.

natives laugh all the way to the bank watching the blue hairs do that...

[Ransom]

Well.....might I ask that some of those funds go towards their fellow "Redskins?" I mean....how would you like to be a Redskin fan? I figured they's show up last night, they're at home.....Kirk Cousins playing decent ball.....you can forget about RGIII...he's overrated. I know Snyder has money but....dam. That was a debacle last night. Made Manning look like his brother. The G-men.......making a statement? Dallas at home against New Orleans, the Eagles playing stout ball......Where are the Washington Redskins. You cannot possibly the name controversy makes you play that badly? Cmon!

[Chris]

I see my reputation precedes me.

There was a reported survey recently that said less than 40% of adults could name the 3 branches of government.

maybe there are so many people on this board who do not respect our history or form of government because they do not know our history or understand our form of government.

and now they attack me because I don't care to invest hundreds of pages with links of arguments and days if not weeks of my time educating them.

but I've found that when people on the Internet believe something its almost impossible to change their mind and I have largely given up trying.

i just tell you how I see the issue and hope that little light bulb will come on someday when you are older.


Yes, we know that and don't expect more from you. It's OK, really.

[donttread]

I've seen Anthrax a couple times live, does that count?


Seriously? Look at the numbers.

[Mainecoons]

It's the fault of the Nation...as a citizen of that nation with all of its rights and privileges, you bear a small portion of the responsibility.

The same goes for me...

Well I've heard you Canadians have treated and continue to treat your "native" Americans poorly but it looks like once again in your ardor to stick your oar in U.S. affairs, you are confusing just which country you are a citizen of.

What have you done to push your own nation into better treatment of its native population lately?

http://canadiangenocide.nativeweb.org/genocide.pdf

Even the UN is on Canada's case:

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/10/24/331074/un-urges-canada-to-end-aboriginal-crisis/

[Mainecoons]

Can't we just let them open a casino?

Damn, Pete, they already have on practically every corner out west.

[Common Sense]

Well I've heard you Canadians have treated and continue to treat your "native" Americans poorly but it looks like once again in your ardor to stick your oar in U.S. affairs, you are confusing just which country you are a citizen of.

What have you done to push your own nation into better treatment of its native population lately?

http://canadiangenocide.nativeweb.org/genocide.pdf

Even the UN is on Canada's case:

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/10/24/331074/un-urges-canada-to-end-aboriginal-crisis/

It's true. I'm not a crazy person who refuses to discuss these matters with "foreigners". Canada is far from innocent.

My wife is half native...

[Mainecoons]

No, the problem here is that you don't seem to know which country you're a citizen of.


The same goes for me...

It's OK, I'll keep reminding you until you get over your confusion about that.

Now tell us what you're doing about Canada's horrific treatment of its Native Americans. No, marrying a "half" native isn't exactly an action plan.