14 People Made More Money Than the Entire Food Stamp Budget

[Cigar]

How 14 People Made More Money Than the Entire Food Stamp Budget for 50,000,000 Peoplehttp://www.alternet.org/files/styles/story_image/public/story_images/shutterstock_197605076.jpg

For the second year in a row, America's richest 14 individuals made more from their annual investments than the $80 billion provided for people in need of food. Nearly half of the food-deprived are children. Perversely, the food stamp program was CUT because of a lack of federal funding.

In a testament to the inability -- or unwillingness -- of Congress to do anything about the incessant upward re-distribution of America's wealth, the richest 14 Americans increased their wealth from $507 billion to $589 billion in ONE YEAR from their investment earnings. As stated by Forbes, "All together the 400 wealthiest Americans are worth a staggering $2.29 trillion, up $270 billion from a year ago."

The Richest 14 Made Enough Money to Hire Two Million Pre-School Teachers or Emergency Medical Technicians

Billions of dollars of wealth, derived from years of American productivity, have been transferred to a few financially savvy and well-connected individuals who have spent a generation shaping trading rules and tax laws to their own advantage. It's so inexplicably one-sided that the 2013 investment earnings of the richest 1% of Americans ($1.8 trillion) was more than the entire budget for Social Security ($860 billion), Medicare ($524 billion), and Medicaid ($304 billion).

Why Does So Little of Our National Wealth Go to Feed People or Provide Jobs?

The fruits of American productivity go to the richest Americans, who can afford to hold onto their fortunes, defer taxes indefinitely, and then pay a smaller capital gains rate when they eventually decide to cash in. Worse yet, they can stash their winnings overseas, tax-free. It is estimated that $7.6 trillion of personal wealth is hidden in tax havens. That means, stunningly, that $1 of every $12 of worldwide wealth is hidden in a haven.

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/imgs/2014/141006-whats-wrong-with-this-picture.jpg

http://www.alternet.org/economy/it-happened-again-how-14-people-made-more-money-entire-food-stamp-budget-50000000-people

There's not better word for it other than $ GREED $

[Captain Obvious]

And you supported it.

[Cigar]

And you supported it.


Yea ... that's right ...

This started January 20th 2009 :rollseyes:

Just like everything you don't like.

[Captain Obvious]

Yea ... that's right ...

This started January 20th 2009 :rollseyes:

Just like everything you don't like.

The income gap has never been wider during back to black.

[Cigar]

The income gap has never been wider during back to black.


Yea ... because 2008 and every action before that had nothing to do with it.

So Wealth was Invented after January 20th 2009 :laugh:

[Mister D]

Yea ... because 2008 and every action before that had nothing to do with it.

So Wealth was Invented after January 20th 2009 :laugh:

The income gap has never been wider than during back to black.

[Captain Obvious]

The income gap has never been wider than during back to black.

Amazing how simple communication becomes a major struggle with some people.

[The Xl]

The income gap has never been wider during back to black.

But he's black, he can do no wrong.

I don't think I've seen such a potent combination of racism and simple mindedness on a forum than I have with Cigar. And that's pretty crazy, considering the other crap we have and used to have on this site.

[The Xl]

Cigar will be blind to the fact that he's a corporatist who's basically a white man working for white corporate America, stealing wealth from all groups to give to the uber rich, because he has a certain shade of skin color.

Such a simple minded buffoon.

[Matty]

But he's black, he can do no wrong.

I don't think I've seen such a potent combination of racism and simple mindedness on a forum than I have with Cigar. And that's pretty crazy, considering the other crap we have and used to have on this site.
Your other favorite site said we're all a bunch of losers over here! :) do you think you should be seen with us? Roflmao.

[Cigar]

Cigar will be blind to the fact that he's a corporatist who's basically a white man working for white corporate America, stealing wealth from all groups to give to the uber rich, because he has a certain shade of skin color.

Such a simple minded buffoon.


News to me :laugh:

But you're the expert

[The Xl]

Your other favorite site said we're all a bunch of losers over here! :) do you think you should be seen with us? Roflmao.

What, the kkk brigade at Trins place?

[Captain Obvious]

Cigar will be blind to the fact that he's a corporatist who's basically a white man working for white corporate America, stealing wealth from all groups to give to the uber rich, because he has a certain shade of skin color.

Such a simple minded buffoon.

You know, you're pretty smart for a millenium.

:biglaugh:

[The Xl]

News to me :laugh:

But you're the expert

News to you? You're the one posting the nonstop Obama fellating, dude. Do you have the memory of a goldfish or something?

[nathanbforrest45]

How many were George W. Bush?

[Polecat]

I understand your portfolio did well too Cigar. How many hungry children have you fed?

[nathanbforrest45]

News to me :laugh:

But you're the expert

The income gap has never been wider than during back to black.

[Matty]

What, the kkk brigade at Trins place?
none other than her highness!

[The Xl]

You know, you're pretty smart for a millenium.

:biglaugh:

Fuck yes, I'm quite smart for a specific period of time.

But seriously though, being "smart" is all relative to the supreme quantity of dumbfucks that exist in this country, and the world, really.

[Mister D]

But he's black, he can do no wrong.

I don't think I've seen such a potent combination of racism and simple mindedness on a forum than I have with Cigar. And that's pretty crazy, considering the other crap we have and used to have on this site.

It's disturbing.

[The Xl]

This filter is fucking bullshit, I'm turning it off.

[Cigar]

I understand your portfolio did well too Cigar. How many hungry children have you fed?


A lot ... My wife an I belong to 3 Children's Charity Organizations

Try again :grin:

[Chris]

From the OP link:


As for the argument that Microsoft, Google, etc. created products and jobs: It was the industry that did it, supported by decades of research and innovation, and involving tens of thousands of American workers, from scientists to database clerks. Our nation's winner-take-all philosophy makes it look like one person did the work of all these contributors. That's wrong as can be, especially for this year's version of the richest Americans.

One thing I like about that is it points out that it wasn't just the 14 who did it but all sorts of cooperation among all sorts of people all of whom shared in the wealth.

Another thing I like about it is government doesn't enter the picture in terms of generating all that wealth. Government participates only to redistribute wealth and that obviously ends up going to enrich the richest by gutting the middle class.

[Cigar]

This filter is $#@!ing bull$#@!, I'm turning it off.


Now all of a suddon ... certain words are bothering some people :rollseyes:

[Redrose]

Bill and Melinda Gates (Gates Foundation) along with their partner Warren Buffet have donated 58 BILLION dollars of their own money to their foundation which works globally, to improve healthcare and reduce extreme poverty, and in America, to expand educational opportunities and access to information technology.

The very wealthy keep our charities going. St. Jude's requires $8 million per day to operate for example. The millions on welfare can't help there.

Without the mega corporations and the people who own them, our standard of living would be very poor.

If you want to stop private wealth and privately owned corporations, and big government controlling everything and who gets what, then go visit Cuba and voice your opinion to see how that works for you.

[Cigar]

The story said 14, not which 14

[Captain Obvious]

Bill and Melinda Gates (Gates Foundation) along with their partner Warren Buffet have donated 58 BILLION dollars of their own money to their foundation which works globally, to improve healthcare and reduce extreme poverty, and in America, to expand educational opportunities and access to information technology.

The very wealthy keep our charities going. St. Jude's requires $8 million per day to operate for example. The millions on welfare can't help there.

Without the mega corporations and the people who own them, our standard of living would be very poor.

If you want to stop private wealth and privately owned corporations, and big government controlling everything and who gets what, then go visit Cuba and voice your opinion to see how that works for you.




I can never get over it when I see it, people just love kissing rich peoples asses.

THIS... is the main reason humanity will always be a class driven system because only a small minority of people are smart and savvy enough to take complete advantage of the large majority of people...

... and get their asses kissed at the same time.

[Polecat]

A lot ... My wife an I belong to 3 Children's Charity Organizations

Try again :grin:
Good on you then! I was just checking to see if the pot was calling the kettle black. :icon_thumright:

[Chris]

I can never get over it when I see it, people just love kissing rich peoples asses.

THIS... is the main reason humanity will always be a class driven system because only a small minority of people are smart and savvy enough to take complete advantage of the large majority of people...

... and get their asses kissed at the same time.


I can't get over how some people read nonsense into what others say. Rose wasn't kissing ass, cap, she was pointing out how, contrary to the myth perpetuated by progressives about the class oppression, the rich in fact contribute a lot.

[Cigar]

Good on you then! I was just checking to see if the pot was calling the kettle black. :icon_thumright:


We're DINK's ... but we have way too many Nieces and Nephews :laugh:

[Polecat]

I can't get over how some people read nonsense into what others say. Rose wasn't kissing ass, cap, she was pointing out how, contrary to the myth perpetuated by progressives about the class oppression, the rich in fact contribute a lot.

I still find it obscene that just two individuals can drop 58 billion and still be the wealthiest people in the country.

[The Xl]

I can't get over how some people read nonsense into what others say. Rose wasn't kissing ass, cap, she was pointing out how, contrary to the myth perpetuated by progressives about the class oppression, the rich in fact contribute a lot.

The thing is, though, is that most of the rich became rich to that level via cronyism.

[Captain Obvious]

I still find it obscene that just two individuals can drop 58 billion and still be the wealthiest people in the country.

Gates profiteered off of what was essentially a monopoly in the US for decades.

It's good to be the king.

Did you realize that Gates named his company after his cock?

Micro... soft

[Chris]

The thing is, though, is that most of the rich became rich to that level via cronyism.

That I agree is wrong. The rich should not be able to buy government off. Limit government to limit redistribution.

[PolWatch]

Some of the rich actually start with an idea and work to become rich. AFTER they are rich, they can afford cronyism...when ya have a lotta $$$, everyone wants to be your friend. After they can buy a few friends, they usually buy a few politicians...have a few favorable laws passed and get richer.

[Polecat]

That I agree is wrong. The rich should not be able to buy government off. Limit government to limit redistribution.

There in lies the problem. The exceedingly rich can afford anything.

[Chris]

There in lies the problem. The exceedingly rich can afford anything.

And the government is more than happy to sell us out. Therein lies the real problem.

[Polecat]

Gates profiteered off of what was essentially a monopoly in the US for decades.

It's good to be the king.

Did you realize that Gates named his company after his cock?

Micro... soft

Bill Gates is the poster child of what is wrong with corporate America. He did not develop anything. He was at Harvard long enough to learn how moguls operate and the moment in history was at hand to make the move. He duped the guy that actually created the original software into giving it to him for practically nothing and made an inspirational collusion with IBM to corner the exploding small computer market. Apple would have been wiped from the face of the earth had it not been for their advanced graphics capabilities and near full acceptance from the publishing community. Windows was essentially stolen from Apple. Microsoft has always taken the innovation of others. The only creation they can claim is distinctly theirs is the rabidly successful business model of reselling the same old crap over and over again as new and improved.

[Mini Me]

I can never get over it when I see it, people just love kissing rich peoples asses.

THIS... is the main reason humanity will always be a class driven system because only a small minority of people are smart and savvy enough to take complete advantage of the large majority of people...

... and get their asses kissed at the same time.

For 34 years, Rethuglicans have been kissing rich, elite corporate ass, ever since Reagan, and now they try to dump the blame on Obama.....TRULY AMAZING!

The rich are always getting richer, throughout history. Nothing new there.

[Mini Me]

That I agree is wrong. The rich should not be able to buy government off. Limit government to limit redistribution.

What the hell? It is the rich who have bought government and limit redistribution! If we have no redistribution, the vast majority will be even poorer!

Do You want to drown government in a bathtub, so the criminal elite can rape, rob, and plunder us with impunity, with little or no regulation or watch dogs?

Its bad enough as it is, with the people having no voice, without giving complete control to corporate thugs!

[Chris]

What the hell? It is the rich who have bought government and limit redistribution! If we have no redistribution, the vast majority will be even poorer!

Do You want to drown government in a bathtub, so the criminal elite can rape, rob, and plunder us with impunity, with little or no regulation or watch dogs?

Its bad enough as it is, with the people having no voice, without giving complete control to corporate thugs!




What the hell, it's government selling out. Odd that you should stand for that.

Redistribution goes to the rich, not the poor. Sure, there's social welfare, taken from the middle class, but all that is used to purchase necessities from megacorps.

The power is still with government. Increase it and you increase the target for rent seeking.

[Mini Me]

Bill Gates is the poster child of what is wrong with corporate America. He did not develop anything. He was at Harvard long enough to learn how moguls operate and the moment in history was at hand to make the move. He duped the guy that actually created the original software into giving it to him for practically nothing and made an inspirational collusion with IBM to corner the exploding small computer market. Apple would have been wiped from the face of the earth had it not been for their advanced graphics capabilities and near full acceptance from the publishing community. Windows was essentially stolen from Apple. Microsoft has always taken the innovation of others. The only creation they can claim is distinctly theirs is the rabidly successful business model of reselling the same old crap over and over again as new and improved.

I shuddered when Gates Foundation decided to dump billions into Africa! Its a lost cause. Like pouring $$ down a rat hole.
He totally ignored America and her needs!

[Redrose]

I still find it obscene that just two individuals can drop 58 billion and still be the wealthiest people in the country.


True, but look where their wealth is coming from, products we are using right now, and products that improve the quality of our lives and businesses. We own two computers, three ipads, three iphones, 2 lap tops and a lot of office equipment. They became rich because they provided a product and/or service people wanted, and would pay money for. Did you see the lines for the new Apple 6 that is out? No one is forcing them to but that stuff. All the complaints against America's wealthy are purely jealousy.

The opportunities are still there. Technology is changing minute by minute. Go in your garage and invent something people want. I wish you luck.

[Polecat]

True, but look where their wealth is coming from, products we are using right now, and products that improve the quality of our lives and businesses. We own two computers, three ipads, three iphones, 2 lap tops and a lot of office equipment. They became rich because they provided a product and/or service people wanted, and would pay money for. Did you see the lines for the new Apple 6 that is out? No one is forcing them to but that stuff. All the complaints against America's wealthy are purely jealousy.

The opportunities are still there. Technology is changing minute by minute. Go in your garage and invent something people want. I wish you luck.

I would not care to be obscenely wealthy. If I was it would indicate I am ripping off my customers or my employees or both. Say I go out to the garage and invent a cure for cancer but insist on selling it at the highest possible price just to get a bigger private jet and more houses and servants etc..etc. I don't believe it is at all moral to be so greedy. And I wouldn't be that way.

[Chris]

I shuddered when Gates Foundation decided to dump billions into Africa! Its a lost cause. Like pouring $$ down a rat hole.
He totally ignored America and her needs!


Short-sighted. Say the Gates Foundation, Bono, and others manage to bring prosperity to Africa. How will that happen but by Africans starting businesses that sell goods to us and the rest of the world? And what will they do with that prosperity but buy goods and services from us and the rest of the world. So they gain and we gain.

[Redrose]

Short-sighted. Say the Gates Foundation, Bono, and others manage to bring prosperity to Africa. How will that happen but by Africans starting businesses that sell goods to us and the rest of the world? And what will they do with that prosperity but buy goods and services from us and the rest of the world. So they gain and we gain.


The Gates Foundation is smart though, they control the funds. They know they had to keep the money out of government hands, they know big government screws everything up and wastes tons.

[Refugee]

I wonder how many billions, in how many more years, the west wastes on Africa before the penny finally drops that it isn't increasing anything but dependency.

[rembrant]

How 14 People Made More Money Than the Entire Food Stamp Budget for 50,000,000 People

http://www.alternet.org/files/styles/story_image/public/story_images/shutterstock_197605076.jpg

For the second year in a row, America's richest 14 individuals made more from their annual investments than the $80 billion provided for people in need of food. Nearly half of the food-deprived are children. Perversely, the food stamp program was CUT because of a lack of federal funding.

In a testament to the inability -- or unwillingness -- of Congress to do anything about the incessant upward re-distribution of America's wealth, the richest 14 Americans increased their wealth from $507 billion to $589 billion in ONE YEAR from their investment earnings. As stated by Forbes, "All together the 400 wealthiest Americans are worth a staggering $2.29 trillion, up $270 billion from a year ago."

The Richest 14 Made Enough Money to Hire Two Million Pre-School Teachers or Emergency Medical Technicians

Billions of dollars of wealth, derived from years of American productivity, have been transferred to a few financially savvy and well-connected individuals who have spent a generation shaping trading rules and tax laws to their own advantage. It's so inexplicably one-sided that the 2013 investment earnings of the richest 1% of Americans ($1.8 trillion) was more than the entire budget for Social Security ($860 billion), Medicare ($524 billion), and Medicaid ($304 billion).

Why Does So Little of Our National Wealth Go to Feed People or Provide Jobs?

The fruits of American productivity go to the richest Americans, who can afford to hold onto their fortunes, defer taxes indefinitely, and then pay a smaller capital gains rate when they eventually decide to cash in. Worse yet, they can stash their winnings overseas, tax-free. It is estimated that $7.6 trillion of personal wealth is hidden in tax havens. That means, stunningly, that $1 of every $12 of worldwide wealth is hidden in a haven.

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/imgs/2014/141006-whats-wrong-with-this-picture.jpg

http://www.alternet.org/economy/it-happened-again-how-14-people-made-more-money-entire-food-stamp-budget-50000000-people

There's not better word for it other than $ GREED $

The POINT of Democracy...always was to level the playing field. Politics always was about class warfare.
For the sake of all.. we tried to get away from thugs, riots, mobs, etc. If you took Poli Sci 1A in college.. the Social Contract is in the first part. The concept goes back to America's start. The 1%.....are few. If they get TOO greedy... they find that the 99% outnumber them. The ultra rich... may spend HUGE to tilt the table, to get a lot of the 99% to join whatever allied cult. Ever wonder about the link between Pro Life and Pro GUn..or Pro Death Penalty? Ever wonder how there's folks who love SOME of the constitution.. hate much of it? Ever note how some folks espouse TREASON.. as they call themselves PATRIOTS.

MASS MARKETING. Mass Psychology. Find the weak link and manipulate. You could write a masters thesis in Psychology about how Rush Limbaugh rabble rouses. Rush is the old pro, hardly alone. When Politics and Economics are reasonable, factual, logical, HONEST.. We do fine.

If a bunch of us are suckers, if MANY Millions are spent to CONFUSE, Decieve...to PREVENT democracy...we are screwed. When politics is about low end emotions...it's a problem. I'm an AMERICAN. It's a big deal. I don't want MY America to be about some arisocracy doing vast corruption, doing Mass Hypnosis, running a CON game

[Refugee]

And meanwhile the general public concentrate on what Kim Kardashian is wearing, the antics of Justin Beiber and their recent infatuation with having huge backsides (butts). People, I think, are more concerned about trivialities and they get that by the bucketful. It's like the Roman games, keep the masses amused and they are.

[Professor Peabody]

How 14 People Made More Money Than the Entire Food Stamp Budget for 50,000,000 People

http://www.alternet.org/files/styles/story_image/public/story_images/shutterstock_197605076.jpg

For the second year in a row, America's richest 14 individuals made more from their annual investments than the $80 billion provided for people in need of food. Nearly half of the food-deprived are children. Perversely, the food stamp program was CUT because of a lack of federal funding.

In a testament to the inability -- or unwillingness -- of Congress to do anything about the incessant upward re-distribution of America's wealth, the richest 14 Americans increased their wealth from $507 billion to $589 billion in ONE YEAR from their investment earnings. As stated by Forbes, "All together the 400 wealthiest Americans are worth a staggering $2.29 trillion, up $270 billion from a year ago."

The Richest 14 Made Enough Money to Hire Two Million Pre-School Teachers or Emergency Medical Technicians

Billions of dollars of wealth, derived from years of American productivity, have been transferred to a few financially savvy and well-connected individuals who have spent a generation shaping trading rules and tax laws to their own advantage. It's so inexplicably one-sided that the 2013 investment earnings of the richest 1% of Americans ($1.8 trillion) was more than the entire budget for Social Security ($860 billion), Medicare ($524 billion), and Medicaid ($304 billion).

Why Does So Little of Our National Wealth Go to Feed People or Provide Jobs?

The fruits of American productivity go to the richest Americans, who can afford to hold onto their fortunes, defer taxes indefinitely, and then pay a smaller capital gains rate when they eventually decide to cash in. Worse yet, they can stash their winnings overseas, tax-free. It is estimated that $7.6 trillion of personal wealth is hidden in tax havens. That means, stunningly, that $1 of every $12 of worldwide wealth is hidden in a haven.

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/imgs/2014/141006-whats-wrong-with-this-picture.jpg

http://www.alternet.org/economy/it-happened-again-how-14-people-made-more-money-entire-food-stamp-budget-50000000-people

There's not better word for it other than $ GREED $

Jealousy is just this ugly!

[midcan5]

Shhhh, one must pretend inequality doesn't exist, that accumulated advantage doesn't exist, that wealth is inherited doesn't exist, shhhh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfgSEwjAeno

[Refugee]

Shhhh, one must pretend inequality doesn't exist, that accumulated advantage doesn't exist, that wealth is inherited doesn't exist, shhhh.



I don't want to be equal, I'd like some advantage and if anyone wants to leave me their wealth I'd gratefully accept it. If not, I'll just have to go and work and earn it myself. :smiley:

[Amazon]

Republicans rely on people who lack critical thinking skills.

A lot of conservatives tirelessly support almost any policy that takes from the poor and gives to the rich. They argue against any sort of minimum wage increase and when everyone suddenly qualifies for food stamps and taxes go up as a result, they whine about taxes.

Instead of forcing people out on the street to die because you don't want to pay taxes, why not pay workers a fair wage, get them OFF welfare and lower your taxes??

Answer: A severe lack of critical thinking skills.

[Captain Obvious]

Republicans rely on people who lack critical thinking skills.

A lot of conservatives tirelessly support almost any policy that takes from the poor and gives to the rich. They argue against any sort of minimum wage increase and when everyone suddenly qualifies for food stamps and taxes go up as a result, they whine about taxes.

What's wrong with being fiscally conscious?

I think the alternative, where we're at now which is just spend like drunken sailors because life is short and just let our children's children pay for it is unconscionable.


Instead of forcing people out on the street to die because you don't want to pay taxes, why not pay workers a fair wage, get them OFF welfare and lower your taxes??


Many people are on the street not because they can't get jobs but because they don't want jobs, they don't want to be part of productive society.

[del]

many people lol

[Chris]

Republicans rely on people who lack critical thinking skills.

A lot of conservatives tirelessly support almost any policy that takes from the poor and gives to the rich. They argue against any sort of minimum wage increase and when everyone suddenly qualifies for food stamps and taxes go up as a result, they whine about taxes.

Instead of forcing people out on the street to die because you don't want to pay taxes, why not pay workers a fair wage, get them OFF welfare and lower your taxes??

Answer: A severe lack of critical thinking skills.


Same goes for most liberals. But you're a partisan, aren't you.

What's a fair wage? How is that determined?

[Amazon]

What's wrong with being fiscally conscious?

I think the alternative, where we're at now which is just spend like drunken sailors because life is short and just let our children's children pay for it is unconscionable. Being fiscally conscious has nothing to do with raising the minimum wage- that money does not come from the federal budget.




Many people are on the street not because they can't get jobs but because they don't want jobs, they don't want to be part of productive society.The vast majority of those on welfare would rather work. But for the few who do not want to work, can you blame them if staying at home collects more money than working? The problem is that wages and benefits are too low to motivate them.

[Amazon]

It was figured out in 1938, but it was intentionally set high to force the low paying slave labor jobs to fade away. It probably made sense in the mid-eighties, but if the minimum wage had kept pace with individual productivity and inflation since then, it would be about $18 an hour today.

[Chris]

It was figured out in 1938, but it was intentionally set high to force the low paying slave labor jobs to fade away. It probably made sense in the mid-eighties, but if the minimum wage had kept pace with individual productivity and inflation since then, it would be about $18 an hour today.

Here I thought slavery ended here with the Civil War.


Are you saying productivity determines wage? So did Marx.

[Amazon]

Here I though slavery ended here with the Civil War.


Are you saying productivity determines wage? So did Marx.Why shouldn't wages reflect individual productivity?

[Chris]

Why shouldn't wages reflect individual productivity?


Because the labor theory of value doesn't consider factors other than labor. Because, for example,. the one paying the wage may not value the work the same as the worker. Wage needs to be determined by both and what the market can bear.

[Captain Obvious]

Being fiscally conscious has nothing to do with raising the minimum wage- that money does not come from the federal budget.

But it does with reducing spending.

Cutting taxes and maintaining market-driven wage rates keeps businesses, production (ie: jobs) here. When people work and businesses produce, we all benefit.




The vast majority of those on welfare would rather work. But for the few who do not want to work, can you blame them if staying at home collects more money than working? The problem is that wages and benefits are too low to motivate them.

Then in this scenario I would suggest that welfare and benefits are too high. Cut them, give the working taxpayers the additional savings in the form of tax cuts and force those people to take jobs to make ends meet.

The problem here, a problem is that we've designed a rich welfare system that causes this phenomenon. Forcing the minimum wage beyond market doesn't solve this problem, it enables it.

It also eliminates jobs, it causes another phenomenon of people's wages being subsidized by the market by allowing them to earn more than they are producing.

If you want to talk about how shifting earnings from the uber rich to the middle and lower class I'll listen to that. That's an entirely different scenario and a more practical one on paper although it's never going to happen.

[Captain Obvious]

Why shouldn't wages reflect individual productivity?

If wages reflected individual productivity then the minimum wage (along with all wages) would be wholly market driven and not mandated.

Forcing the minimum wage up by mandate creates a scenario where people are earning more than they are producing, by market standards.

[Amazon]

But it does with reducing spending.

Cutting taxes and maintaining market-driven wage rates keeps businesses, production (ie: jobs) here. When people work and businesses produce, we all benefit.
Cutting taxes does no such thing. They won't move jobs back to the US just because we gave them a tax break, that's patently ridiculous.
As evidence, let me remind you that Bush gave big tax breaks to corporations and they continued to move our manufacturing jobs overseas.

When corporate CEOs were only making 20 times what a worker did, in the 1970's, the jobs were all here. Nowadays they make 400 times what a worker does, and yet- all our jobs are overseas.

You see, if you give a greedy person more money they don't return the favor. They simply say, "thanks, sucker" and shove the money into an account in the Cayman Islands.


Then in this scenario I would suggest that welfare and benefits are too high. Cut them, give the working taxpayers the additional savings in the form of tax cuts and force those people to take jobs to make ends meet. That's the problem, most of our jobs don't allow people to "make ends meet."

Also you can't force someone to work, you have to motivate them to work. Anyone who really does not want to work will steal for what they need rather than put in 40 hours a week only to fall short anyway.


The problem here, a problem is that we've designed a rich welfare system that causes this phenomenon. Forcing the minimum wage beyond market doesn't solve this problem, it enables it.I can't imagine how offering more wages for working would cause people to apply for welfare. That simply doesn't make sense.

The truth is, raising the minimum wage would encourage people to get off of welfare, not the other way around.



If you want to talk about how shifting earnings from the uber rich to the middle and lower class I'll listen to that. That's an entirely different scenario and a more practical one on paper although it's never going to happen.

That is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

[Amazon]

If wages reflected individual productivity then the minimum wage (along with all wages) would be wholly market driven and not mandated.

Forcing the minimum wage up by mandate creates a scenario where people are earning more than they are producing, by market standards.That would be true if the minimum wage were currently an accurate representation of individual productivity, but it isn't. My whole argument is that minimum wage does not reflect individual productivity. Since companies will not willingly pay a fair wage, mandate is the only viable solution.

[Chris]

That would be true if the minimum wage were currently an accurate representation of individual productivity, but it isn't. My whole argument is that minimum wage does not reflect individual productivity. Since companies will not willingly pay a fair wage, mandate is the only viable solution.


My whole argument is that minimum wage does not reflect individual productivity.

Again I ask what is the basis of this argument of yours? How you you determine this? Moreover, why is productivity the only factor you look at?