PDA

View Full Version : Obama's French Revolution



Peter1469
10-09-2014, 06:29 AM
Obama's French Revolution (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/389895/obamas-ideal-revolution-victor-davis-hanson)

An interesting article from Victor Davis Hanson. The 18th century had two great revolutions: the American and the French. America's revolution was over individual liberty. France's was over equality of outcome.


Unfortunately, the Obama administration is following more the French model than the American.

Suddenly, once-nonpartisan federal bureaucracies have become catalysts for fundamentally transforming America. Often-ideological bureaucrats have forgotten their original mission. NASA might do better to ensure that our astronauts are independent of Vladimir Putin’s Russian rockets rather than claiming that its primary mission is to reach out to the Muslim community.



Intelligence directors vie with one another to please superiors with fatuous but politically correct analysis. Director of National Intelligence James Clapper assured us that the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt was largely secular. CIA director John Brennan once termed a now-emerging Islamic caliphate as “absurd.” Former Director of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano once warned that returning veterans and right-wingers were the chief domestic terrorist threats, not Islamic jihadists.

Mac-7
10-09-2014, 06:43 AM
I agree with the article.

but unfortunately Obama voters do not care about freedom from the government that feeds them.

they want more government to redistribute the wealth for them.

donttread
10-09-2014, 07:42 AM
Obama's French Revolution (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/389895/obamas-ideal-revolution-victor-davis-hanson)

An interesting article from Victor Davis Hanson. The 18th century had two great revolutions: the American and the French. America's revolution was over individual liberty. France's was over equality of outcome.

Not so much equality of outcome as equality of opportunity. Unless the author thinks the French peasants were just lazy bums who had all the chances in the world

Peter1469
10-09-2014, 08:00 AM
Not so much equality of outcome as equality of opportunity. Unless the author thinks the French peasants were just lazy bums who had all the chances in the world

What?

The French Revolution was about equality of outcome.

The American Revolution was about equality of opportunity.

Mister D
10-09-2014, 08:02 AM
What?

The French Revolution was about equality of outcome.

The American Revolution was about equality of opportunity.

You're telling me that the slaveholding upper class fomented a war with Britain so that their economic and social inferiors could have equality of opportunity?

Peter1469
10-09-2014, 08:02 AM
You're telling me that the slaveholding upper class fomented a war with Britain so that their economic and social inferiors could have equality of opportunity?

Of course not. :smiley:

Equal opportunity for the people that mattered.

Common Sense
10-09-2014, 08:04 AM
Their motto was Liberty, Equality and Brotherhood.

I don't see equality of outcome as their desired goal.

Mac-7
10-09-2014, 08:05 AM
What?

The French Revolution was about equality of outcome.

The American Revolution was about equality of opportunity.

then there was that unpleasantness of progressives in the revolutionary government executing their political opponents.

donttread
10-09-2014, 08:08 AM
What?

The French Revolution was about equality of outcome.

The American Revolution was about equality of opportunity.

No I'm pretty sure it was the oppressed sayin "We're not going to take it anymore"

Common Sense
10-09-2014, 08:08 AM
then there was that unpleasantness of progressives in the revolutionary government executing their political opponents.

Who would you call progressives in the French Revolution? The Jacobins I'm assuming?

Mac-7
10-09-2014, 08:12 AM
You're telling me that the slaveholding upper class fomented a war with Britain so that their economic and social inferiors could have equality of opportunity?

This guy is really bitter about something.

Im sure some of the founders had no faith in the common man but others did.

thats why the new form of government had to be negotiated among many different factions.

Mister D
10-09-2014, 08:14 AM
No I'm pretty sure it was the oppressed sayin "We're not going to take it anymore"

You mean oppressed bourgeois who radicalized the population and lost control of them?

Mister D
10-09-2014, 08:15 AM
This guy is really bitter about something.

Im sure some of the founders had no faith in the common man but others did.

thats why the new form of government had to be negotiated among many different factions.

Sorry, I'm not a liberal. I don't believe in democracy, equality, etc.

Common Sense
10-09-2014, 08:16 AM
You mean oppressed bourgeois who radicalized the population and lost control of them?

Similar to the American revolution...without the loss of control. ;)

Mister D
10-09-2014, 08:19 AM
Similar to the American revolution...without the loss of control. ;)

I really don't see a genuine difference of kind. One just goes much further than the other.

Common Sense
10-09-2014, 08:21 AM
I really don't see a genuine difference of kind. One just goes much further than the other.

The French situation was different only in that they had a much larger, more unhappy population and more entrenched institutions. If the American Revolution happened say 100 years later than it did, it would have been much uglier.

Mac-7
10-09-2014, 08:22 AM
Sorry, I'm not a liberal. I don't believe in democracy, equality, etc.

I doubt if you're even American.

but we do believe in those ideals.

Mister D
10-09-2014, 08:29 AM
I doubt if you're even American.

but we do believe in those ideals.

Why? Because I don't have a an American flag avatar? :grin:

Captain Obvious
10-09-2014, 08:30 AM
Why? Because I don't have a an American flag avatar? :grin:

Fucking commie!

Mister D
10-09-2014, 08:30 AM
The French situation was different only in that they had a much larger, more unhappy population and more entrenched institutions. If the American Revolution happened say 100 years later than it did, it would have been much uglier.

The Old Regime was hit by a series of crisis including a famine. The circumstances were uniformly negative for the old order at the time the revolution occurred.

Mac-7
10-09-2014, 08:40 AM
Why? Because I don't have a an American flag avatar? :grin:

No, just an impression.

Having met a lot foreigners online who have an intense interest in America but with a detached perspective of someone on the outside looking in you give off that vibe.

Mac-7
10-09-2014, 08:44 AM
$#@!ing commie!

Who knows?

Most progressives who would have been communists in the 60's lean toward lefty style fascism today.

Peter1469
10-09-2014, 08:53 AM
They pretty much culled the educated class- you know, lowest common denominator to create equality of outcome.


Their motto was Liberty, Equality and Brotherhood.

I don't see equality of outcome as their desired goal.

Refugee
10-09-2014, 08:56 AM
No, just an impression.

Having met a lot foreigners online who have an intense interest in America but with a detached perspective of someone on the outside looking in you give off that vibe.

That must be me. Not an intense interest, but American forums are about the only place you can actually say anything anymore - certainly not in Europe.

Matty
10-09-2014, 08:57 AM
That must be me. Not an intense interest, but American forums are about the only place you can actually say anything anymore - certainly not in Europe.
Why?

Refugee
10-09-2014, 08:59 AM
Why?

You'd be arrested. Anything against Islam, minorities . . . you think the U.S. is politically correct? Half the posters here would be in jail in the UK.

Mac-7
10-09-2014, 09:02 AM
That must be me. Not an intense interest, but American forums are about the only place you can actually say anything anymore - certainly not in Europe.

i have noticed the American forums are moving away from free speech to managed liberal progressive approved thoughts.

Yes it seems to be worse in the UK and maybe other places where free speech is no longer tolerated but America is not far behind.

Captain Obvious
10-09-2014, 09:05 AM
i have noticed the American forums are moving away from free speech to managed liberal progressive approved thoughts.

Yes it seems to be worse in the UK and maybe other places where free speech is no longer tolerated but America is not far behind.

Both conservatives and liberals think alike when it comes to free speech.

Speech should be free as long as they agree with it.

Mac-7
10-09-2014, 09:08 AM
Both conservatives and liberals think alike when it comes to free speech.

Speech should be free as long as they agree with it.

You only say that as a lib who wants to muddy the waters to hide lib oppression.

i may strongly disagree with your opinion as you do to mine.

But its usually libs who run to the mods to tearfully complain about the conservatives.

Refugee
10-09-2014, 09:14 AM
i have noticed the American forums are moving away from free speech to managed liberal progressive approved thoughts.

Yes it seems to be worse in the UK and maybe other places where free speech is no longer tolerated but America is not far behind.

Yes, I'd agree that people themselves are becoming more touchy feely and the younger the more so. After a few years people tend to take on the dominant ideology, but America hasn't got to the stage of speech being an arrestable offence, (yet). I've no doubt it will come if left to carry on.

Captain Obvious
10-09-2014, 09:17 AM
You only say that as a lib who wants to muddy the waters to hide lib oppression.

i may strongly disagree with your opinion as you do to mine.

But its usually libs who run to the mods to tearfully complain about the conservatives.

Actually, it's the reverse. The "conservatives" here do most of the whining.

But the fact that you use tPF as a source to back your wacky theories tells us a lot about your intellect.

Dismissed

Mac-7
10-09-2014, 09:19 AM
Yes, I'd agree that people themselves are becoming more touchy feely and the younger the more so. After a few years people tend to take on the dominant ideology, but America hasn't got to the stage of speech being an arrestable offence, (yet). I've no doubt it will come if left to carry on.

I hear that expressing unauthorized opinions IS an arrest-able offense in the UK.

Mac-7
10-09-2014, 09:21 AM
Actually, it's the reverse. The "conservatives" here do most of the whining.

But the fact that you use tPF as a source to back your wacky theories tells us a lot about your intellect.

Dismissed


I think i have it right.

you are still spreading misinformation.

Refugee
10-09-2014, 09:27 AM
I hear that expressing unauthorized opinions IS an arrest-able offense in the UK.

Oh most definitely. We have a series of 'hate' laws, which means that if someone says something you consider offensive it's a police matter. Hence everyone talks in whispers, or not at all. We've had progessives as the ruling party for the last 20 years, conservatives included and we're an absolute mess. One tenth of the population have already emigrated in the last decade, equating to one fifth of the working population. It's a mass exodus!

Mac-7
10-09-2014, 09:32 AM
We've had progessives as the ruling party for the last 20 years, conservatives included and we're an absolute mess.

i noticed that when I was watching CSPAN coverage of the British election a few years ago.

when I tuned in there was a candidate telling us how much more the government would spend if his party won the election.

Lots of new or bigger social programs.

i was sure he was the liberal candidate and was shocked when they identified him as the conservative.

I can only imagine how much more free stuff the lib was promising.

Refugee
10-09-2014, 09:55 AM
i noticed that when I was watching CSPAN coverage of the British election a few years ago.

when I tuned in there was a candidate telling us how much more the government would spend if his party won the election.

Lots of new or bigger social programs.

i was sure he was the liberal candidate and was shocked when they identified him as the conservative.

I can only imagine how much more free stuff the lib was promising.

Every political party in the UK tries to outdo each other with 'free' offers. It's like a closing down sale and the ones that promise the most, get elected. The UK is the original 'from cradle to the grave' socialist nightmare. All three main parties are for inclusion in the European Union, they're progressives. I haven't been back for 6 years and hopefully never will.

Mister D
10-09-2014, 10:12 AM
You'd be arrested. Anything against Islam, minorities . . . you think the U.S. is politically correct? Half the posters here would be in jail in the UK.

No question about it. I would have been in trouble with the law a number of times by now.

Chris
10-09-2014, 11:06 AM
This op ed by historian Victor Davis Hanson has much to do with another thread's question of what are rights and the consequences of one of those views.

Obama’s Ideal Revolution: America’s current revolutionary inspiration seems to derive more from Robespierre than Madison (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/389895/obamas-ideal-revolution-victor-davis-hanson)


At the end of the 18th century, there were two great Western revolutions — the American and the French. Americans opted for the freedom of the individual, and divinely endowed absolute rights and values.

A quite different French version sought equality of result. French firebrands saw laws less as absolute, but instead as useful to the degree that they contributed to supposed social justice and coerced redistribution. They ended up not with a Bill of Rights and separation of powers, but instead with mass executions and Napoleonic tyranny.

Unfortunately, the Obama administration is following more the French model than the American.

Suddenly, once-nonpartisan federal bureaucracies have become catalysts for fundamentally transforming America....

Intelligence directors vie with one another to please superiors with fatuous but politically correct analysis....

The IRS has lost its nonpartisan reputation by hounding perceived ideological enemies....

...Border-patrol agents were not supposed to become agents of social change to nullify settled laws by noncompliance....

...

Mac-7
10-09-2014, 11:15 AM
I haven't been back for 6 years and hopefully never will.

I can't imagine ever saying that about America, no matter how much the progressives screw the country up.

as a matter of fact I still have a soft spot in my heart for Great Britain for the sake of all her past greatness and accomplishments.

but you know the place better than I do so I won't second guess your opinion.

Chris
10-09-2014, 11:19 AM
This is a duplicate of another thread, don't respond, it should be deleted shortly.

Captain Obvious
10-09-2014, 11:22 AM
I can't imagine ever saying that about America, no matter how much the progressives screw the country up.

as a matter of fact I still have a soft spot in my heart for Great Britain for the sake of all her past greatness and accomplishments.

but you know the place better than I do so I won't second guess your opinion.

What a tool

Peter1469
10-09-2014, 11:43 AM
Notice: duplicate threads merged.

Mac-7
10-09-2014, 12:39 PM
What a tool

Why?

because I love my country or because I don't hate Great Britain?

PolWatch
10-09-2014, 03:00 PM
What a tool

gee, I musta missed a lot of posts...when did YOU become a lib?

Refugee
10-09-2014, 06:19 PM
I can't imagine ever saying that about America, no matter how much the progressives screw the country up.

as a matter of fact I still have a soft spot in my heart for Great Britain for the sake of all her past greatness and accomplishments.

but you know the place better than I do so I won't second guess your opinion.

The problem is that the longer you live in these places, the more accustomed and acceptable the ideology becomes. In the end you find yourself talking in whispers, comfortable in paying up to 50% of your income in direct/indirect taxation and political corruption becomes just another unnoticed daily event. The UK is now an ideal destination for third world immigrants and those on welfare. Will America go the same way?

Cigar
10-09-2014, 06:27 PM
http://images.sodahead.com/polls/002113693/1720736303_facepalm_answer_3_xlarge.jpeg (http://www.sodahead.com/fun/something-to-make-you-smile/question-2113693/)

Mac-7
10-09-2014, 07:04 PM
The UK is now an ideal destination for third world immigrants and those on welfare. Will America go the same way?

We are becoming a nation of beggars, aka a welfare state.

and it breaks my heart.

the sad thing is that the more Obama and the progressives screw up the country the more needy voters they create who need the lib welfare state to take care of them.