Question for atheists

[Captain Obvious]

Serious question.

You're reading this thread on your mobile walking along the suddenly BANG, a car out of nowhere plows onto the sidewalk and into you killing you instantly. Never see it coming.

You regain consciousness and you're in front of God. You know it, it's not the pearly gates, clouds, wings and harps bullshit, you know you're in front of the supreme being. You just know it.

Then God says to you "you abandoned me, now I am abandoning you" and casts you into the eternal flame but before he does that, he tells you that nothing you can say or do at this point can save your soul but you have a chance to make a final statement to him before you eternal punishment. One line basically.

What do you say?

Totally hypothetical question, I'm not promoting an agenda or anything. Just a curious thought that struck me.

[Refugee]

" . . . you have a chance to make a final statement to him before you eternal punishment. One line basically."

You did that on purpose!

No seriously, I suppose I'd say, I did my best and forgive me for the mistakes I made.

[KC]

"So long and thanks for all the fish."

[del]

go home and get your shinebox

[kilgram]

I would think that god is a fucking bastard and a vengeful one. He is evil. Therefore I want to be the most far possible from him. He is a tyrant, and tyrants must be avoided or destroyed.

Therefore, going to the words said by Bakunin: If god ever existed it should be killed.

Therefore my words would be: You are an evil, vengeaful bastard being and it should be better that you have not ever existed.

Or:

In a ironic way: I thought that you represented kindness and mercy... but I see that maybe I wil find that in the side of the Devil.

[Dangermouse]

You and the ass you came in on!

[Newpublius]

Serious question.

You're reading this thread on your mobile walking along the suddenly BANG, a car out of nowhere plows onto the sidewalk and into you killing you instantly. Never see it coming.

You regain consciousness and you're in front of God. You know it, it's not the pearly gates, clouds, wings and harps bull$#@!, you know you're in front of the supreme being. You just know it.

Then God says to you "you abandoned me, now I am abandoning you" and casts you into the eternal flame but before he does that, he tells you that nothing you can say or do at this point can save your soul but you have a chance to make a final statement to him before you eternal punishment. One line basically.

What do you say?

Totally hypothetical question, I'm not promoting an agenda or anything. Just a curious thought that struck me.

It's a rehash of Pascal's wager. The response is obvious, God's vindictiveness amounts to what would clearly be a disproportionate response. Why would an omnipotent/omniscient being even require faith at all and ultimately there's an interesting interplay between the requirement of faith from the get go. If man made religion says that one must have faith or be forsaken, that is either man made or divinely revealed, if it's the latter, the revelation to the person who starts the meme hardly had his faith tested at all.

[Redrose]

" . . . you have a chance to make a final statement to him before you eternal punishment. One line basically."

You did that on purpose!

No seriously, I suppose I'd say, I did my best and forgive me for the mistakes I made.


Excellent answer.

[Green Arrow]

"So long and thanks for all the fish."


" . . . you have a chance to make a final statement to him before you eternal punishment. One line basically."

You did that on purpose!

No seriously, I suppose I'd say, I did my best and forgive me for the mistakes I made.

You guys are hilarious :tongue:

[Chris]

Why would God make such an assumption, that I'd abandoned what I've never known, nor could? In making that false assumption I'd know he was a false god who couldn't send me anywhere.

[KC]

Why would God make such an assumption, that I'd abandoned what I've never known, nor could? In making that false assumption I'd know he was a false god who couldn't send me anywhere.

Or just a non-omniscient god.

[Redrose]

@Captain Obvious (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=3)

I'm not an atheist but I wanted to address your question seriously. We have devout believers, atheists and agnostics in our family. Three very different ways of looking at life and the hear after.

I am a believer and I struggle everyday to be the best I can be and live up to the tennets of my faith. Sometimes I fail. I believe in Heaven and Hell and I believe we must answer to higher power for the bad stuff we did. He is a loving God, but we still must pay for our sins before we can have our reward.

My sister, raised Catholic like me, now highly educated with a PhD. is agnostic. She refuses to even talk about what happens when we die. She says it's nonsense, intelligent people need facts.

My ex was raised Lutheran, was an alter boy, but now says he's an atheist. He believes when you die, that's it, nothing, no heaven no hell nothing.

My SIL was raised with no religious teaching at all and believes in nothing. Life ends when we die, then nothing. She cannot fathom a God, or Heaven, Hell, punishment. She could not answer your question because it's too abstract for her, it's fantasy, too foreign for her to comprehend.

But my back to my athiest ex, he said something recently that made me think he really does believe. As his dad was dying, he kissed him and whispered to him "it's OK dad, go join mom in Heaven", and said the "Our Father". Doesn't sound like an atheist to me.

So IMO true atheists, those who never had any religious teachings shouldn't be held to religious version of what's after death. But those who were aware of the religious vision of Heaven/Hell and turned away from it, may have a different opinion at their moment of death. Those of us who do believe will be held to a higher standard because of our awareness of what is required of us in our teachings.

IMO we will all be judged accordingly, probably fairly.

[Individual]

One man lives his life treating others as he wishes to be treated. He never steals. He always tries to be a positive addition to lives of those who know him. He is not judgmental. When he is wronged he quickly forgives and does not seek revenge. He also finds it hard to believe that there is a supreme being that created a universe billions of light years wide. He sees no god or any kind of decent morality coming from the churches that he knows of.

Another man attends church regularly. He professes that he believes in God to everyone that knows him. There is no question in his mind that we are created by a supreme being. This man steals everything that isn't nailed down. When wronged himself, this man immediately seeks revenge or any way he can be "one up" on the person who wronged him. This man never has anything good to say about anyone but himself, all he does is point out the "sins" of others while refusing to listen to anything that casts him in a bad light. This man believes that all people who do not attend church are immoral, and he questions the morality of some of those who do attend church.

Which of these men came the closest to following God? Which of these men deserves to spend eternity in a paradise and which deserves to spend eternity in a pit?

"Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Jesus of Nazareth.

"Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah.

[Captain Obvious]

Oi vey...

[Chris]

Or just a non-omniscient god.

And illogical to argue from unknowns.

[Alyosha]

I would think that god is a fucking bastard and a vengeful one. He is evil. Therefore I want to be the most far possible from him. He is a tyrant, and tyrants must be avoided or destroyed.

Therefore, going to the words said by Bakunin: If god ever existed it should be killed.

Therefore my words would be: You are an evil, vengeaful bastard being and it should be better that you have not ever existed.

Or:

In a ironic way: I thought that you represented kindness and mercy... but I see that maybe I wil find that in the side of the Devil.

The Gnostics believed the God of the Hebrew Bible with all that wrath stuff is actually a demiurge and that Jesus spoke the truth path.

[Peter1469]

Or just a non-omniscient god.

The bible says much more that would support that position than the converse.

[KC]

The bible says much more that would support that position than the converse.

Especially the Old Testament. I would like to know when people began associating the God of Christianity/Judaism with pure benevolence, omniscience, omnipotence, etc. That is not the impression I got while reading the Bible.

[Chris]

Especially the Old Testament. I would like to know when people began associating the God of Christianity/Judaism with pure benevolence, omniscience, omnipotence, etc. That is not the impression I got while reading the Bible.



Psalm 139:4 For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O Lord, thou knowest it altogether.

Psalm 147:5 Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.

Job 28:24 For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;

Job 37:16 Dost thou know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him which is perfect in knowledge?

[KC]

Psalm 139:4 For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O Lord, thou knowest it altogether.

Psalm 147:5 Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.

Job 28:24 For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;

Job 37:16 Dost thou know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him which is perfect in knowledge?

And yet the God of the first five books appears quite different.

[Chris]

And yet the God of the first five books appears quite different.

Yes, those Gods were quite different. In those books you see many pairs of stories, two Genesis stories, two Flood stories, etc, and each depicts God in a different way, the first an almighty Creator, the second an experimenter trying to find Adam a helpmeet, an interrogator after the fall.

[Adelaide]

I'm not an Atheist, but I believe that so long as you've led a life with good intentions (not to purposely harm someone, for example) then I think you've basically led a 'moral' life and 'God' will accept you. So, I'd propose saying that you've done that, assuming you have.

[KC]

Yes, those Gods were quite different. In those books you see many pairs of stories, two Genesis stories, two Flood stories, etc, and each depicts God in a different way, the first an almighty Creator, the second an experimenter trying to find Adam a helpmeet, an interrogator after the fall.

Because of the different writers. Correct me if I'm wrong but scholars have identified four authors for the first five books, this leading to the two flood stories, two creation stories, etc.

[Chris]

Because of the different writers. Correct me if I'm wrong but scholars have identified four authors for the first five books, this leading to the two flood stories, two creation stories, etc.

Yes, J, E, D and P of the documentary hypothesis. Some add a fifth who put the other stories together. Moses couldn't have written them as he died and the story continued.

[Amazon]

I would ask him why he decided to create us with original sin and then punish us for it.

[Chris]

If we were perfect and not flawed we'd have no reason to be, to do, to act to turn what we value less into what we value more.

[KC]

I would ask him why he decided to create us with original sin and then punish us for it.

In the Catholic version, original sin comes after the fall. Augustine of Hippo believed that before the fall a man could control his lustful desieres. There was a dualist split between soul and body after the fall. It is how his father's Manichaean belief system influenced him (and Catholics for centuries to come, by extension).

[Chloe]

I'm not an Atheist, but I believe that so long as you've led a life with good intentions (not to purposely harm someone, for example) then I think you've basically led a 'moral' life and 'God' will accept you. So, I'd propose saying that you've done that, assuming you have.

I agree. Be a good person and lead a good life that benefits your family, friends and others in a positive way, help people and the planet, and God should accept you.

[Bob]

http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Adelaide http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=792224#post792224)
I'm not an Atheist, but I believe that so long as you've led a life with good intentions (not to purposely harm someone, for example) then I think you've basically led a 'moral' life and 'God' will accept you. So, I'd propose saying that you've done that, assuming you have.


I agree. Be a good person and lead a good life that benefits your family, friends and others in a positive way, help people and the planet, and God should accept you.

You both would make awesome Mormons.

May I suggest a slightly different tack?

When you attended college, the school set goals for you over your personal goals. You could not select the classes of your major for instance and you could take elective courses. Still the aim as you both admit is being with GOD.

What does GOD tell you both as to what he needs for you to be with GOD?

It is my personal belief that the LDS has the answers to that and much more.

[Peter1469]

I would ask him why he decided to create us with original sin and then punish us for it.

The bible doesn't say that. Adam and Eve disobeyed God and that was the original sin.... Serpent, apple, tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Bueller, Bueller?? :shocked:

[Adelaide]

You both would make awesome Mormons.

May I suggest a slightly different tack?

When you attended college, the school set goals for you over your personal goals. You could not select the classes of your major for instance and you could take elective courses. Still the aim as you both admit is being with GOD.

What does GOD tell you both as to what he needs for you to be with GOD?

It is my personal belief that the LDS has the answers to that and much more.

We're both Jewish, albeit different branches, and I'm fairly certain we both intend to continue to be.

[Alyosha]

You both would make awesome Mormons.

May I suggest a slightly different tack?

When you attended college, the school set goals for you over your personal goals. You could not select the classes of your major for instance and you could take elective courses. Still the aim as you both admit is being with GOD.

What does GOD tell you both as to what he needs for you to be with GOD?

It is my personal belief that the LDS has the answers to that and much more.

No offense but you use this forum too much to proselytize for your religion. That's more of a turnoff than a turn on.

[Green Arrow]

The bible doesn't say that. Adam and Eve disobeyed God and that was the original sin.... Serpent, apple, tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Bueller, Bueller?? :shocked:

Well, yes and no. In some circles of Jewish thought, it is believed that man was created with a dual nature, one that is inclined toward good and one that is inclined toward evil. The trick is choosing to follow the good inclination rather than the bad. This isn't theology, mind, as I don't recall Judaism having any theology about human nature, it's mostly individual opinion. It is one I subscribed to when I adhered to the faith, as it seemed to be the most reasonable explanation.

[Mister D]

Well, yes and no. In some circles of Jewish thought, it is believed that man was created with a dual nature, one that is inclined toward good and one that is inclined toward evil. The trick is choosing to follow the good inclination rather than the bad. This isn't theology, mind, as I don't recall Judaism having any theology about human nature, it's mostly individual opinion. It is one I subscribed to when I adhered to the faith, as it seemed to be the most reasonable explanation.

There could be no theology of human nature. Theology is about God. There is, however, an anthropology implicit in almost any religious or philosophical view.

[Green Arrow]

There could be no theology of human nature. Theology is about God. There is, however, an anthropology implicit in almost any religious or philosophical view.

Did you just pull the semantics card on me? :tongue:

[kilgram]

Be good not because a mythical being will accept you. Do good deeds, be coherent with your ideas and you will be well with yourself. And you will contribute to make a better world. Don't do the things for a god, do it for yourself.

[kilgram]

There could be no theology of human nature. Theology is about God. There is, however, an anthropology implicit in almost any religious or philosophical view.
God is human. God has human features because it is created by humans.

[Alyosha]

Be good not because a mythical being will accept you. Do good deeds, be coherent with your ideas and you will be well with yourself. And you will contribute to make a better world. Don't do the things for a god, do it for yourself.

Just because you believe in God doesn't mean that you only do good because of that God.

[GrassrootsConservative]

"Fuck you and your piece of shit son, bitchboy"

[Animal Mother]

I don't believe in things I can't see but at the same time people who claim to be atheists are annoying as fuck with their anti-Christian shit. They ruin Christmas and take the fun out of fucking holidays.

Jerks.

[GrassrootsConservative]

I don't believe in things I can't see but at the same time people who claim to be atheists are annoying as $#@! with their anti-Christian $#@!. They ruin Christmas and take the fun out of $#@!ing holidays.

Jerks.

Right. They are in the wrong for being intolerant of Christianity, but you are absolutely not a hypocrite for being intolerant of everyone not a Christian.

Fucking stooge.

[Animal Mother]

Right. They are in the wrong for being intolerant of Christianity, but you are absolutely not a hypocrite for being intolerant of everyone not a Christian.

Fucking stooge.

I keep forgetting how people on this forum translate English like they are retahds. I never said I'm intolerant of people not Christians but read in whatevs and while you're at it suck a camel cock for all I care. Just as long as you enjoy yourself I'm happy.

Peace!

[GrassrootsConservative]

I'll leave the camel cock sucking for your pussy God.

[Green Arrow]

I'll leave the camel cock sucking for your pussy God.

Excessive vulgarity is against the rules, and this is well beyond excessive.

[GrassrootsConservative]

It takes two hands to clap.

[Green Arrow]

It takes two hands to clap.

Yeah, and it takes two clicks to stop the clapping. Let's not let it get to that point.

[Captain Obvious]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nSKkwzwdW4

[Animal Mother]

I'll leave the camel cock sucking for your pussy God.

Pussy is my god. Other than that I have none.

[GrassrootsConservative]

$#@! is my god. Other than that I have none.
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/warning.gifWarningExcessive vulgarity is against the rules, and this is well beyond excessive.

[Green Arrow]

@Animal Mother (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1166) -

The vulgarity warning is for everyone on this thread. Please adhere to it.
GrassrootsConservative -

Moderator warnings and notices are for moderators to use, not you.

One more warning and you're TB'd, GRC.

[Refugee]

9131

My loyal subjects and I remain displeased at your uncouth and vulgar colonialist manners. :smiley:

[Mister D]

God is human. God has human features because it is created by humans.

If God is human you get what you deserve. Stop yapping about your rights and your freedom.

[kilgram]

I don't believe in things I can't see but at the same time people who claim to be atheists are annoying as fuck with their anti-Christian shit. They ruin Christmas and take the fun out of fucking holidays.

Jerks.
You don't need any religion to enjoy holidays...

And I don't see how fun is Christmas. It is one of the worst holidays.

[kilgram]

If God is human you get what you deserve. Stop yapping about your rights and your freedom.
What?

Do you mean I cannot fight for my rights and freedom and demand more of both? Seriously?

[Amazon]

In the Catholic version, original sin comes after the fall. Augustine of Hippo believed that before the fall a man could control his lustful desieres. There was a dualist split between soul and body after the fall. It is how his father's Manichaean belief system influenced him (and Catholics for centuries to come, by extension).Wow! You apparently know a lot more about Catholicism than I do.

I'm not Catholic- but I spent 2 years in a Catholic school. My father had a knee-jerk reaction to me witnessing a student stabbing himself when I was in 4th grade at PS 36 in New York. Next thing I knew, I was attending a Catholic school.

But I do remember hearing that we were all born with the sins of Eve and Adam on our shoulders.

[Chris]

I don't believe in things I can't see but at the same time people who claim to be atheists are annoying as fuck with their anti-Christian shit. They ruin Christmas and take the fun out of fucking holidays.

Jerks.


Agree, many, not all are. But the same can apply to some Christian who are just as antagonistic against those who don't share their faith.

Think it has to do with insecurity. If you truly believe, or don't, you don't need to bolster that by attacking others, you rest assured in your belief, or nonbelief.

[Chris]

What?

Do you mean I cannot fight for my rights and freedom and demand more of both? Seriously?

Fighting for rights on a private forum? Seriously?

I think D's main comment was on your making God human.

[Chris]

Wow! You apparently know a lot more about Catholicism than I do.

I'm not Catholic- but I spent 2 years in a Catholic school. My father had a knee-jerk reaction to me witnessing a student stabbing himself when I was in 4th grade at PS 36 in New York. Next thing I knew, I was attending a Catholic school.

But I do remember hearing that we were all born with the sins of Eve and Adam on our shoulders.


It's hereditary from Adam and Eve. It's the price of knowledge of good and evil.

[Alyosha]

You don't need any religion to enjoy holidays...

And I don't see how fun is Christmas. It is one of the worst holidays.

kilgram you know you're one of my favorites, but you're not just an atheist you're an anti-theist and sometimes it gets old. I don't go around telling Muslims that they're wrong or Buddhists or make fun of their faith. I don't tell atheists they should be Christians.

I live and let live. If you do anything else you sound like a bitter ex.

[Chris]

The problem has come from the New Atheists--Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Christopher Hitchens--popularizing anti-theism.

[kilgram]

@kilgram (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=867) you know you're one of my favorites, but you're not just an atheist you're an anti-theist and sometimes it gets old. I don't go around telling Muslims that they're wrong or Buddhists or make fun of their faith. I don't tell atheists they should be Christians.

I live and let live. If you do anything else you sound like a bitter ex.
I've always said that I am anti-theist. I don't hide this fact.

I won't stop making fun of what I believe is funny. I've always said that I don't have to respect the ideas. Only people.

And Christmas are holidays that I don't like. Are a business/commercial holidays that only are useful to spend more and more money in big stores. No fun there is.

Well, I am a little weird and I usually don't like most of holidays. I enjoy having holidays (because I don't have to work and I can rest) but not "parties".

So, to my dislike of Christmas you have to add my personality to my anti-theism.

I just reason with the different believes. Or I believe I do that. I do it in different ways, sometimes more "respectful" and others more "provocative", depending of my intentions. If I want to be more nasty or be more polite. But, these last months I've got tired being polite and respectful. I prefer to be nasty and disrepectful.

[Green Arrow]

I've always said that I am anti-theist. I don't hide this fact.

I won't stop making fun of what I believe is funny. I've always said that I don't have to respect the ideas. Only people.

And Christmas are holidays that I don't like. Are a business/commercial holidays that only are useful to spend more and more money in big stores. No fun there is.

Well, I am a little weird and I usually don't like most of holidays. I enjoy having holidays (because I don't have to work and I can rest) but not "parties".

So, to my dislike of Christmas you have to add my personality to my anti-theism.

I just reason with the different believes. Or I believe I do that. I do it in different ways, sometimes more "respectful" and others more "provocative", depending of my intentions. If I want to be more nasty or be more polite. But, these last months I've got tired being polite and respectful. I prefer to be nasty and disrepectful.

The thing is your making fun of religions around here, particularly Christianity, has gone beyond just poling fun and is just really rude and mean-spirited.

[Mister D]

The thing is your making fun of religions around here, particularly Christianity, has gone beyond just poling fun and is just really rude and mean-spirited.

His points are also grossly overstated although that may be a language issue.

[Redrose]

You don't need any religion to enjoy holidays...

And I don't see how fun is Christmas. It is one of the worst holidays.


You are a very sad person. Try having some respect for what others value and respect. It's called common decency. I'm Christian, and I wish my Jewish friends happy Hannukah, Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashanah.
I would never belittle their holidays.

[Matty]

Gosh Christmas bashing has started early this year. It's not even Holloweenie yet.

[Green Arrow]

Gosh Christmas bashing has started early this year. It's not even Holloweenie yet.

Well, of course. Fox starts up their "War on Christmas" rhetoric in January, so the Christmas bashers come out of the woodwork and spew their nonsense.

[Matty]

Oh brother trot out the Fox News is to blame bullshit. A true lefty!

[Green Arrow]

Oh brother trot out the Fox News is to blame bullshit. A true lefty!

Were you a gnat in a past life?

[nic34]

Serious question.

You're reading this thread on your mobile walking along the suddenly BANG, a car out of nowhere plows onto the sidewalk and into you killing you instantly. Never see it coming.

You regain consciousness and you're in front of God. You know it, it's not the pearly gates, clouds, wings and harps bull$#@!, you know you're in front of the supreme being. You just know it.

Then God says to you "you abandoned me, now I am abandoning you" and casts you into the eternal flame but before he does that, he tells you that nothing you can say or do at this point can save your soul but you have a chance to make a final statement to him before you eternal punishment. One line basically.

What do you say?

Totally hypothetical question, I'm not promoting an agenda or anything. Just a curious thought that struck me.

You can't "regain consciousness" after you are dead and have a conversation.

[Chris]

http://i.snag.gy/y2JRr.jpg

[KC]

You can't "regain consciousness" after you are dead and have a conversation.

You are no fun.