Are mandatory quarantines legal?

[Adelaide]

The coercive mandatory quarantine of Kaci Hickox, the nurse placed in what amounts to Ebola jail after returning to the United States from West Africa, raises troubling questions about the power that state and federal governments have to forcibly isolate individuals.

Hickox, who told CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/26/health/new-jersey-quarantined-nurse/index.html) that her “basic human rights have been violated,” was only released Monday, two days after testing negative for Ebola. While quarantined, she was seemingly powerless to challenge her banishment to a tent in Newark.

The nurse’s treatment, as well as the quarantine policies of New York and New Jersey (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/26/new-york-new-jersey-s-ebola-quarantines-are-an-insane-overreaction.html), have been roundly criticized as heavy-handed. A top National Institutes of Health official called the quarantines “draconian.” (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/fauci-returning-ebola-health-workers-shouldnt-face-draconian-rules-n234141) And former Ebola patient Rick Sacra, a doctor infected in Liberia, likened the mandatory quarantine for returning health-care workers in New York and New Jersey to a “police state approach.”
(http://[http://www.mediaite.com/tv/ebola-survivor-self-quarantine-better-than-police-state-approach/)
So is it legal for the government to quarantine individuals or groups of people?

Are Mandatory Ebola Quarantines Legal? (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/28/are-mandatory-ebola-quarantines-legal.html)

The picture with the article alludes to it, but there was forcible confinement during the small pox outbreak in the US that led to serious questions about civil liberties. That case had other significant issues attached to it but it is a reasonable comparison; is it legal to forcibly confine someone in a quarantine? Not is it the right thing to do, or the responsible thing to do - is it legal?

[Redrose]

Yes, if it's for the greater good.

[Adelaide]

Yes, if it's for the greater good.

Do you think disbanding civil liberties for the greater good applies to more than just this situation?

[Cigar]

Depends ... if it's to avert a real Crisis ... Yes

Based on the statistical record and the known facts ... No

[Mac-7]

Are Mandatory Ebola Quarantines Legal? (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/28/are-mandatory-ebola-quarantines-legal.html)

The picture with the article alludes to it, but there was forcible confinement during the small pox outbreak in the US that led to serious questions about civil liberties. That case had other significant issues attached to it but it is a reasonable comparison; is it legal to forcibly confine someone in a quarantine? Not is it the right thing to do, or the responsible thing to do - is it legal?

Why are you asking us?

no citizen can say except for 5 unelected autocrats on the Supreme Court.

[PolWatch]

without proper authority, I don't think they are legal. I don't know, but I think they would have to have declare something like martial law to override individual rights???? is there a lawyer in the house???

[sachem]

Are Mandatory Ebola Quarantines Legal? (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/28/are-mandatory-ebola-quarantines-legal.html)

The picture with the article alludes to it, but there was forcible confinement during the small pox outbreak in the US that led to serious questions about civil liberties. That case had other significant issues attached to it but it is a reasonable comparison; is it legal to forcibly confine someone in a quarantine? Not is it the right thing to do, or the responsible thing to do - is it legal?It probably is legal, but they should have the right to get in touch with a lawyer.

[Mac-7]

without proper authority, I don't think they are legal. I don't know, but I think they would have to have declare something like martial law to override individual rights????

is there a lawyer in the house???

Be to ask only one lawyer.

because two will disagree.

[Adelaide]

Why are you asking us?

no citizen can say except for 5 unelected autocrats on the Supreme Court.

As Redrose and Polwatch have demonstrated, people can think for themselves and decide if they think this should be or is legal. There are precedents to look at, such as the small pox outbreak, and common sense in terms of civil liberties and the power of the government to determine when they think they have the right to override them.

[Mac-7]

As Redrose and Polwatch have demonstrated, people can think for themselves and decide if they think this should be or is legal. There are precedents to look at, such as the small pox outbreak, and common sense in terms of civil liberties and the power of the government to determine when they think they have the right to override them.

We all have opinions but they mean nothing.

all that matters is what the afore mentioned 5 unelected judges think.

[Calypso Jones]

I'm inclined to say that it is LEGAL seeing as it has always been done and it IS for the benefit of society at large. We can't have infecteds running around in the public. But then with Aids....how many infecteds have intentionally infected as many people as they could before they finally get arrested. How many are out there still doing that and they're getting away with it. So, that sort of negates the concept of the greater good theory in favor of PC.

This alleged nurse, Kaci Hickox in my opinion is a disgrace to her claimed profession. Maybe that's why she can behave the way she does. Being a nurse, if that is the truth, she'd have submitted to the procedure if for nothing else than to put the public at ease.

So. In a normal world, quarantine would not only be legal, but it would be expected and obeyed. We don't live in a normal world anymore.

[Mac-7]

I'm inclined to say that it is LEGAL seeing as it has always been done and it IS for the benefit of society at large. We can't have infecteds running around in the public. But then with Aids....how many infecteds have intentionally infected as many people as they could before they finally get arrested. How many are out there still doing that and they're getting away with it. So, that sort of negates the concept of the greater good theory in favor of PC.

This alleged nurse, Kaci Hickox in my opinion is a disgrace to her claimed profession. Maybe that's why she can behave the way she does. Being a nurse, if that is the truth, she'd have submitted to the procedure if for nothing else than to put the public at ease.

So. In a normal world, quarantine would not only be legal, but it would be expected and obeyed. We don't live in a normal world anymore.

I suspect Hichox was being paid a bonus to be in west Africa.

[Common Sense]

Yes, if it's for the greater good.

"For the greater good" is a slippery slope. Particularly for a conservative.

[Adelaide]

I'm inclined to say that it is LEGAL seeing as it has always been done and it IS for the benefit of society at large. We can't have infecteds running around in the public. But then with Aids....how many infecteds have intentionally infected as many people as they could before they finally get arrested. How many are out there still doing that and they're getting away with it. So, that sort of negates the concept of the greater good theory in favor of PC.

This alleged nurse, Kaci Hickox in my opinion is a disgrace to her claimed profession. Maybe that's why she can behave the way she does. Being a nurse, if that is the truth, she'd have submitted to the procedure if for nothing else than to put the public at ease.

So. In a normal world, quarantine would not only be legal, but it would be expected and obeyed. We don't live in a normal world anymore.

Working in healthcare, I have to agree that most people I work with would voluntarily submit to a quarantine if exposed. I definitely see your point on that.

[sachem]

"For the greater good" is a slippery slope. Particularly for a conservative.Big time.

[Calypso Jones]

I think most nurses and health care workers...is that redundant? are caring people...UNTIL such time as they are totally burned out. Maybe it doesn't happen to many of them, I've just seen too many that have become jaded I suppose. Nursey Hickox has been outed as not the nurse that she claims to be but rather a partisan government bureaucratic employee. Of course she is Put out, outraged, intentionally rude to the state of New Jersey and the doctor in charge of her quarantine and threatening legal action.

I'm sure she thinks she is one tough woman and we all admire her. I find her to be contemptible and thus probably Chelsea's choice for Surgeon General in twenty years.

[del]

I think most nurses and health care workers...is that redundant? are caring people...UNTIL such time as they are totally burned out. Maybe it doesn't happen to many of them, I've just seen too many that have become jaded I suppose. Nursey Hickox has been outed as not the nurse that she claims to be but rather a partisan government bureaucratic employee. Of course she is Put out, outraged, intentionally rude to the state of New Jersey and the doctor in charge of her quarantine and threatening legal action.

I'm sure she thinks she is one tough woman and we all admire her. I find her to be contemptible and thus probably Chelsea's choice for Surgeon General in twenty years.

she is one tough woman, and all you wingnut wannabes aren't fit to wipe her butt.

[sachem]

I think most nurses and health care workers...is that redundant? are caring people...UNTIL such time as they are totally burned out. Maybe it doesn't happen to many of them, I've just seen too many that have become jaded I suppose. Nursey Hickox has been outed as not the nurse that she claims to be but rather a partisan government bureaucratic employee. Of course she is Put out, outraged, intentionally rude to the state of New Jersey and the doctor in charge of her quarantine and threatening legal action.

I'm sure she thinks she is one tough woman and we all admire her. I find her to be contemptible and thus probably Chelsea's choice for Surgeon General in twenty years.She could just be a malcontent, but I also allow that maybe she was "manhandled" by those instituting the quarantine. That could certainly piss someone off. Forcibly losing one's freedom is scary, no matter what the reason.

[gamewell45]

I'll check with my family's friends who were guests of the US Government during WW II when they were confined to internment camps because of their Japanese heritage.

[Mac-7]

she is one tough woman, and all you wingnut wannabes aren't fit to wipe her butt.

Not very tough when she is too soft to spend the night in a tent without TV.

[Redrose]

Do you think disbanding civil liberties for the greater good applies to more than just this situation?


Yes, in certain situastions. That's what martial law is, with restrictions and curfews. It's a temporary suspension of our normal civil laws in very serious, select situations where the public in general could be harmed.

Technically a draft is a temporary suspension of freedom, especially in time of war, like WWII.

I got very ill after a spine surgery, was sent to a rehab facility for three weeks in quarentine. No one was allowed in to see me, except nurses and doctors, no family. It was for their good.

We all have our freedoms, but common sense must prevail, we cannot allow one person's freedoms infringe on someone else's when there is the possibility of a major health issue. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[sachem]

I'll check with my family's friends who were guests of the US Government during WW II when they were confined to internment camps because of their Japanese heritage.Yeah, we seem to frequently forget this "noble" moment in our history.

[Mac-7]

Yeah, we seem to frequently forget this "noble" moment in our history.

I guess you'll condemn those Americans for being pissed at the Japanese at all.

but interning the Japanese probably saved some of their lives and maybe a few Chinese and Koreans too.

[sachem]

I guess you'll condemn those Americans for being pissed at the Japanese at all.

but interning the Japanese probably saved some of their lives and maybe a few Chinese and Koreans too.We are gonna lock you up to protect you. Good excuse. :rolleyes:

[Mac-7]

We are gonna lock you up to protect you. Good excuse. :rolleyes:

They were locked up to protect us.

but I think there are grandchildren of the neisi who would not exist today without the internment camps.

[PolWatch]

interesting to note that at the same time Joe DiMaggio was serving in the US military, his parents were nearly placed into an interment camp for Italian Americans...they were the enemy too.

[Mac-7]

interesting to note that at the same time Joe DiMaggio was serving in the US military, his parents were nearly placed into an interment camp for Italian Americans...they were the enemy too.

Germans too.

[Calypso Jones]

Yeah, we seem to frequently forget this "noble" moment in our history.

Democrat president.

[Peter1469]

Which level of scrutiny would SCOTUS measure a challenge on? That is the key to answering the OP.

[Matty]

If obama allows the troops to be quarantined it's all over, for that matter when texas imposed quarantine on the Duncan family and it went unchallenged it was over!

[Mac-7]

If obama allows the troops to be quarantined it's all over, for that matter when texas imposed quarantine on the Duncan family and it went unchallenged it was over!


With the least American golfer in chief cheered on by the lib news media it is never over as far as clueless Obama voters are concerned.

[decedent]

interesting to note that at the same time Joe DiMaggio was serving in the US military, his parents were nearly placed into an interment camp for Italian Americans...they were the enemy too.

You just admitted that they were Italians (we were fighting Italy). It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to know this makes no sense.

[PolWatch]

ya know, if I thought you were for real, I would be calling for the men in the white jackets with the big nets...as it is...please continue...I love a good laugh!

[Peter1469]

I will answer my own question since nobody has touched it.

SCOTUS uses 3 levels of scrutiny when deciding cases- strict scrutiny, intermediate,, and rational basis. Since a quarantine is within the traditional police powers of a state, the court will likely apply the 3rd test.

[Mac-7]

SCOTUS uses 3 levels of scrutiny when deciding cases- strict scrutiny, intermediate,, and rational basis. Since a quarantine is within the traditional police powers of a state, the court will likely apply the 3rd test.

there is noting rational about the sc.

the judges will just pull something out of their asses based on their own personal bias as they usually do.

[Peter1469]

there is noting rational about the sc.

the judges will just pull something out of their asses based on their own personal bias as they usually do.

not really.

[Mac-7]

not really.

So you believe sc decisions are scientific?

[Peter1469]

So you believe sc decisions are scientific?

No.

What an odd question.

[Mac-7]

No.



Then it's just their opinion and subject to all the personal and political bias they have.

[Peter1469]

Then it's just their opinion and subject to all the personal and political bias they have.

Within the context of one of the three levels of scrutiny.

[donttread]

Are Mandatory Ebola Quarantines Legal? (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/28/are-mandatory-ebola-quarantines-legal.html)

The picture with the article alludes to it, but there was forcible confinement during the small pox outbreak in the US that led to serious questions about civil liberties. That case had other significant issues attached to it but it is a reasonable comparison; is it legal to forcibly confine someone in a quarantine? Not is it the right thing to do, or the responsible thing to do - is it legal?

Yes, I believe it falls under emergency powers. On the other hand we must monitor how it's used very carefully

[Mac-7]

Within the context of one of the three levels of scrutiny.

No matter how you spin it the decision is just the personal opinion of the judge.

[Peter1469]

No matter how you spin it the decision is just the personal opinion of the judge.

Not really.

[Mac-7]

Not really.

yes really.

[Peter1469]

Let me know if you want to learn.

[Mac-7]

Let me know if you want to learn.

Thats a pretty snobbish thing to say.

who says you have all the answers?

[Mac-7]

Actually Peter this little exchange of ours is a good example of how the judges operate.

you feel compelled to disagree with me no matter what the logic points to.

you are being driven to an opinion based on your dislike for me rather than some immutable logic.

you want to argue so you irrationally take the opposite position from mine and away we go.

judges know what they want before ever considering the arguments and merely pick and chose arguments that fit their bias.

[del]

Thats a pretty snobbish thing to say.

who says you have all the answers?

he does

[Ransom]

Thats a pretty snobbish thing to say.

who says you have all the answers?

It would be snobbish should he actually have the answers. By his contributions in here however, we can all see that's not the case...so it's conceit, not snobbery.

[Mac-7]

It would be snobbish should he actually have the answers. By his contributions in here however, we can all see that's not the case...so it's conceit, not snobbery.

Correct.

Conceit is a more appropriate term.

[Ransom]

Correct.

Conceit is a more appropriate term.

Conceited and wrong, but I ain't dismissing him. He may be wrong way Pete but he's our wrong way Pete.

[Casper]

Why are you asking us?

no citizen can say except for 5 unelected autocrats on the Supreme Court.

Ummm, there are Eight Judges plus the Chief Justice, meaning you are off by four judges. Makes me wonder what else you get wrong by being too lazy to get your facts in order. How Ya doing Mac:)

[The Xl]

My biggest fear with this whole ebola thing is that it would set the precedent with forcing quarantines with slight reasonable doubt. Seems that I may have been justified with that fear. The government never fails to capitalize on a crisis with anti liberty legislation.

Never let a good crisis go to waste.

[Captain Obvious]

My biggest fear with this whole ebola thing is that it would set the precedent with forcing quarantines with slight reasonable doubt. Seems that I may have been justified with that fear. The government never fails to capitalize on a crisis with anti liberty legislation.

Never let a good crisis go to waste.

Bingo

[Mac-7]

Conceited and wrong, but I ain't dismissing him. He may be wrong way Pete but he's our wrong way Pete.

Speak for yourself.

i ain't going to feed him.

[Mac-7]

Ummm, there are Eight Judges plus the Chief Justice, meaning you are off by four judges. Makes me wonder what else you get wrong by being too lazy to get your facts in order.


How Ya doing Mac:)

You are still way off on the facts.

a SC decision only requires 5 votes.

[decedent]

That nurse should be forced to keep her voluntary quarantine.