View Full Version : Nurses plan strike
Peter1469
11-01-2014, 08:54 AM
Nurses plan strike (http://www.courant.com/sns-rt-us-usa-health-ebola-nurses-20141030-story.html)
Nurses fear that the CDC and administration are not taking Ebola seriously and plan a strike to express their concerns.
A California-based nurses union said Thursday it was organizing strikes and other protests against what it views as insufficient protection for nurses caring for patients stricken with the deadly Ebola virus. The nurses have demanded better protection when treating Ebola patients for weeks, ever since two nurses in Texas became infected with the virus while treating Thomas Duncan, a Liberian who fell ill and died while visiting Dallas.
Can you imagine a person with Ebola and the common cold at the same time infecting everyone in their path?
Peter1469
11-01-2014, 09:47 AM
Can you imagine a person with Ebola and the common cold at the same time infecting everyone in their path?
If those two viruses got together and mutated.....
They wouldn't necessarily have to mutate since a person with Ebola and the cold now have another avenue of transmission which is the coughing and sneezing symptoms of the common cold. The only reason why they are saying this strain is not airborne is largely due to the fact that coughing and sneezing is not typically the symptoms of Ebola.
Matty
11-01-2014, 10:10 AM
They wouldn't necessarily have to mutate since a person with Ebola and the cold now have another avenue of transmission which is the coughing and sneezing symptoms of the common cold. The only reason why they are saying this strain is not airborne is largely due to the fact that coughing and sneezing is not typically the symptoms of Ebola.
Yes, that is what THEY say but the new CDC guidelines insist on the nose, mouth, eyes be totally covered as well as all exposed skin. Now, what does that tell you?
Adelaide
11-01-2014, 10:22 AM
I don't believe the nurses have the right to strike, really (I mean they do but I don't agree with it). Why don't they strike over treating HIV/AIDS patients? Why don't they strike over dealing with hundreds of hospital-acquired infection patients? It's about professional responsibility.
PolWatch
11-01-2014, 10:29 AM
because in the current political atmosphere, its acceptable?
Common
11-01-2014, 10:49 AM
Nurses, just like Police and Firemen do not have to die because govt or the private sector wont do the right thing or give them the tools to be safe.
Nurses are on the very front of the front line in health care. When your in the hospital the face you see is your nurse 24/7 not your doctor. Nurses save more lives than anyone else, they are there to see your changes and sound the alarm.
If nurses dont feel safe with ebola if they feel they dont have the tools to handle it safely. Then who am I to question them.
Ebola has an 80% mortality rate and there is no cure and its far easier to pass on than HIV. Hiv has to enter you strictly through an opening in your body like a cut or via sex. Hiv Dies when exposed to air. EBOLA can live for weeks on your end table. You touch the table and theres a good chance you have just got ebola.
Nurses have every right to strike if they beleive their lives are being needlessly put at risk. Risk is part of the job but not NEEDLESS unnecessary risk.
Matty
11-01-2014, 10:53 AM
If I were a nurse today and observed the lies I would find another profession.
Peter1469
11-01-2014, 11:11 AM
I like nurses. Much easier to get along with than docs.
I don't blame these nurses for feeling the way that they do. We are entering the winter months, the CDC guidelines of transmission of Ebola only apply in the summer or warmer months. Canada, the home of ZMAPP has decided to not accept VISA's coming from those infected countries.
Chloe
11-01-2014, 01:55 PM
I like nurses. Much easier to get along with than docs.
Hey now be nice, my mom gets along with most everybody
Peter1469
11-01-2014, 02:03 PM
Hey now be nice, my mom gets along with most everybody
Well, women docs are easier to get along with than men docs. My primary care doc is a woman.
Max Rockatansky
11-01-2014, 02:17 PM
Nurses plan strike (http://www.courant.com/sns-rt-us-usa-health-ebola-nurses-20141030-story.html)
Nurses fear that the CDC and administration are not taking Ebola seriously and plan a strike to express their concerns.
Not the CDC or the "administration" (I'm guessing that's the White House), but the hospitals mentioned in the article since it's their responsibility to protect the nurses aka their employees:
National Nurses United and its affiliate, the California Nurses Association (CNA), said nurses would walk off the job on Nov. 12, at 66 Kaiser Permanente facilities in California, and at Providence Hospital in Washington, D.C.
The problems in Dallas, from sending Duncan back home to the nurses who became infected are directly related to their employer's training of personnel and supply of equipment.
IMHO, this all goes directly to budget cuts. People yammer about reducing costs yet they still want 100% of the same service. That's not the way things work.
gamewell45
11-01-2014, 05:08 PM
Surprise that the Nurses haven't struck over patients being admitted to the hospital with influenza, which kills approx 60,000 annually.
Peter1469
11-01-2014, 05:10 PM
Surprise that the Nurses haven't struck over patients being admitted to the hospital with influenza, which kills approx 60,000 annually.
Less than that. And out of how many people who get the flu.
Or are you an apples v. oranges type of guy.
sachem
11-01-2014, 05:16 PM
Surprise that the Nurses haven't struck over patients being admitted to the hospital with influenza, which kills approx 60,000 annually.Most nurses aren't going to potentially die if they catch the flu from a patient. And many hospitals strongly recommend the flu shot for staff.
sachem
11-01-2014, 05:18 PM
Aren't they striking because of insufficient PPE/education?
Peter1469
11-01-2014, 05:24 PM
Aren't they striking because of insufficient PPE/education?
Sounds like it
gamewell45
11-01-2014, 05:40 PM
Less than that. And out of how many people who get the flu.
Or are you an apples v. oranges type of guy.
No, just a realist. You just cannot brush off 60,000 deaths like that.
Surprise that the Nurses haven't struck over patients being admitted to the hospital with influenza, which kills approx 60,000 annually.
Where do you get your facts that the flu kills 60.000 annually when the CDC has no idea the number of deaths that are caused by the flu? The flu diagnosis is rarely used on death certificates so that is why they do not know.
Peter1469
11-01-2014, 06:00 PM
No, just a realist. You just cannot brush off 60,000 deaths like that.
It isn't 60,000.
Plus with Ebola 75-90% die from it. It is like 1% for flu.
So you are an apples to oranges type of guy. That is what I thought.
Max Rockatansky
11-01-2014, 06:14 PM
It isn't 60,000.
Plus with Ebola 75-90% die from it. It is like 1% for flu.
So far 8 have had Ebola in the US and 1 died. Seems that's 12.5% not 75-90%.
US Ebola patients:
Dr Kent Brantly: The aid worker was flown to Atlanta on 1 August and discharged three weeks later.
Nancy Writebol: Mr Brantly's colleague also contracted the virus in Liberia and also recovered.
Rick Sacra: After working in the same Liberian hospital, he recovered after treatment in Nebraska facility
Thomas Duncan: The Liberian was the first person diagnosed with Ebola inside the US. He died on 8 October.
Nina Pham: A nurse who treated Duncan in Dallas, she was declared free of the virus.
Amber Vinson: The second Dallas nurse is being treated in Atlanta, and about to be discharged.
Ashoka Mukpo: Freelance cameraman flown from Liberia to Nebraska and later released.
Dr Craig Spencer: A doctor recently returned from Guinea is in isolation at a New York city hospital.
So far 7 have had Ebola in the US and 1 died. Seems that's 12.5% not 75-90%.
US Ebola patients:
Dr Kent Brantly: The aid worker was flown to Atlanta on 1 August and discharged three weeks later.
Nancy Writebol: Mr Brantly's colleague also contracted the virus in Liberia and also recovered.
Rick Sacra: After working in the same Liberian hospital, he recovered after treatment in Nebraska facility
Thomas Duncan: The Liberian was the first person diagnosed with Ebola inside the US. He died on 8 October.
Nina Pham: A nurse who treated Duncan in Dallas, she was declared free of the virus.
Amber Vinson: The second Dallas nurse is being treated in Atlanta, and about to be discharged.
Ashoka Mukpo: Freelance cameraman flown from Liberia to Nebraska and later released.
Dr Craig Spencer: A doctor recently returned from Guinea is in isolation at a New York city hospital.
Your stats mean nothing since we are not in an epidemic of Ebola yet or not at all in the future.
Peter1469
11-01-2014, 06:18 PM
Lynn fixed your stats. Anyway, 12.5% is much higher than flu deaths.
So far 8 have had Ebola in the US and 1 died. Seems that's 12.5% not 75-90%.
US Ebola patients:
Dr Kent Brantly: The aid worker was flown to Atlanta on 1 August and discharged three weeks later.
Nancy Writebol: Mr Brantly's colleague also contracted the virus in Liberia and also recovered.
Rick Sacra: After working in the same Liberian hospital, he recovered after treatment in Nebraska facility
Thomas Duncan: The Liberian was the first person diagnosed with Ebola inside the US. He died on 8 October.
Nina Pham: A nurse who treated Duncan in Dallas, she was declared free of the virus.
Amber Vinson: The second Dallas nurse is being treated in Atlanta, and about to be discharged.
Ashoka Mukpo: Freelance cameraman flown from Liberia to Nebraska and later released.
Dr Craig Spencer: A doctor recently returned from Guinea is in isolation at a New York city hospital.
Redrose
11-01-2014, 07:31 PM
I don't believe the nurses have the right to strike, really (I mean they do but I don't agree with it). Why don't they strike over treating HIV/AIDS patients? Why don't they strike over dealing with hundreds of hospital-acquired infection patients? It's about professional responsibility.
Ebola kills in weeks, HIV/AIDS took years.
Max Rockatansky
11-01-2014, 08:42 PM
12.5% is much higher than flu deaths.
Still a far cry from "75-90%".
I'm not saying there shouldn't be a concern. I'm just saying there's no need to panic.
Two dumb assess set off a couple of pressure cooker bombs at a marathon killing three people and wounding 264. Some spread fear and paranoia that it was the first wave of several attacks. All that fear-mongering was harmful. We were right to be concerned, but panicking was not a very good response.
Same for the Ebola "crisis". A major reason there is an epidemic in parts of Africa is due to the conditions; lack of clean water, sanitary conditions, medical facilities and education. All things we have in quantity in the West. Heck, there is folklore being passed around in Africa that saltwater baths and drinking saltwater cure Ebola. Idiotic ideas and panic are not helping to contain this problem.
Common
11-01-2014, 09:15 PM
Ebola death rate hits 70% (http://nypost.com/2014/10/14/ebola-death-rate-rises-above-70/) The death rate in the Ebola outbreak has risen to 70 percent and there could be up to 10,000 new cases a week in two months, the World Health Organization warned Tuesday. WHO assistant director-general Dr. Bruce Aylward gave the grim figures during a news conference in Geneva. Previously, WHO had estimated the death rate at around 50 percent.
Aylward said the 70 percent death rate was “a high-mortality disease” in any circumstance and that the UN health agency was still focused on trying to get sick people isolated and provide treatment as early as possible.
http://nypost.com/2014/10/14/ebola-death-rate-rises-above-70/
The actual death rate for Ebola varies with every outbreak its been as high as 90% in past outbreaks.
There is no preventative vaccine and there is no cure to date.
With those statistics why in the world would nurses willfully put themselves at risk if they feel they dont have the proper equiptment and procedures in place to keep not only them safe. BUT THEIR FAMILIES they could bring it home too.
To me this discussion is ludicrous imho, the nurses have every right to strike as long as they are asking for specific items. Like Proper equiptment and proper SOP that they need to assure their safetly.
I read earlier that newly bought ebola protective equipt allowed the ebola virus to go right through it and infect the health workers.
gamewell45
11-01-2014, 09:15 PM
Where do you get your facts that the flu kills 60.000 annually when the CDC has no idea the number of deaths that are caused by the flu? The flu diagnosis is rarely used on death certificates so that is why they do not know.
I just got done last week having ebola protocol training (I'm a first responder) and that's what the instructor told us.
I just got done last week having ebola protocol training (I'm a first responder) and that's what the instructor told us.
Your instructor is misinformed.
Max Rockatansky
11-02-2014, 07:36 AM
Your instructor is misinformed.Sounds like they need to be sent to a re-education camp and overseen by a political officer, da comrade?
Common
11-02-2014, 08:15 AM
Over a 30 yr period in the USA the low yearly rates for flu deaths was 3,000 to a high of 49,000
Peter1469
11-02-2014, 09:29 AM
This stats on flu deaths that I saw were 36,000 for 2013. But people who die, usually die of a secondary condition due to their weakened immune system. The bad thing about the flu is that it is so easily spread.
Max Rockatansky
11-02-2014, 10:44 AM
This stats on flu deaths that I saw were 36,000 for 2013. But people who die, usually die of a secondary condition due to their weakened immune system. The bad thing about the flu is that it is so easily spread.
Agreed. Another bad thing are the large number of people who are afraid to receive a vaccination due to misinformation and/or conspiracy theory BS.
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/spotlights/children-flu-deaths.htm
Pediatric deaths are defined as flu-associated deaths that occur in people younger than 18 years. An early look at this season’s reports indicates that about 90 percent occurred in children who had not received a flu vaccination this season.
This review also indicated that 60 percent of deaths occurred in children who were at high risk of developing serious flu-related complications, but 40 percent of these children had no recognized chronic health problems. The proportions of pediatric deaths occurring in children who were unvaccinated and those who had high-risk conditions are consistent with what has been seen in previous seasons.
This stats on flu deaths that I saw were 36,000 for 2013. But people who die, usually die of a secondary condition due to their weakened immune system. The bad thing about the flu is that it is so easily spread.
Did you know that the CDC report of transmission of the flu is 6 feet while the Ebola is 3 feet from people's bodily fluids expelled.
This stats on flu deaths that I saw were 36,000 for 2013. But people who die, usually die of a secondary condition due to their weakened immune system. The bad thing about the flu is that it is so easily spread.
Per the CDC they did autopsies of people that had the flu and died of secondary complications. They found that the flu virus had diminished to such small levels at the time of death which makes it impossible to put on the death certificate that flu was the cause of death.
Do any of you people realize that the flu virus is not native to the U.S. and most all flu viruses originate out of Asia every year. It is this reason why they can make the flu vaccine every year because they know in advance what virus is going to get to the U.S.
Peter1469
11-02-2014, 04:40 PM
Did you know that the CDC report of transmission of the flu is 6 feet while the Ebola is 3 feet from people's bodily fluids expelled.
Didn't know the distance for the flu.
Diagnostic codes are provided by our government so they could easily know the exact number of people that were exposed and got the flu and died of secondary complications. They could provide a code of those that got the flu shot. These separate codes would provide the exact number of who died from what but the fact is they don't want to do this since it might discredit the value of flu shots that they make big bucks from the public.
Peter1469
11-02-2014, 04:41 PM
Do any of you people realize that the flu virus is not native to the U.S. and most all flu viruses originate out of Asia every year. It is this reason why they can make the flu vaccine every year because they know in advance what virus is going to get to the U.S.
One reason I don't bother with the flu vaccine. It is like the military fighting the last war instead of the war that they are in.
Max Rockatansky
11-02-2014, 05:52 PM
One reason I don't bother with the flu vaccine. It is like the military fighting the last war instead of the war that they are in.
So we should get rid of all our nukes, SSBN's and B-1s'/2's and focus on SpecOps and V-22's? Obviously not.
We prepare for foreseeable contingencies. Reallocating assets to short, intense conflicts with QRF's is good. "Right-sizing" our nuclear forces is good too. Eliminating them completely and totally dropping any capability of fighting another World War? No, that would be stupid.
Anyone with brains will get their shots. They'll also recognize that being vaccinated is preventive medicine, not a cure all. My mom is recovering from the flue in Virginia. The strain going around there wasn't covered by the vaccination, which she had wisely received. It's just her bad luck the flu she caught wasn't one of the three predicted six months ago as the most prevalent strains in the 2014-2015 flu season.
When I flew as a flight instructor, we wore parachutes. I preflighted my 'chute every flight. Over 2500 times. Didn't use it once. Should I have just skipped preflighting my parachute based on the odds? Would that be wise? Or should I be smart and proactive?
http://oi58.tinypic.com/34xm592.jpg
Peter1469
11-02-2014, 05:59 PM
So we should get rid of all our nukes, SSBN's and B-1s'/2's and focus on SpecOps and V-22's? Obviously not.
We prepare for foreseeable contingencies. Reallocating assets to short, intense conflicts with QRF's is good. "Right-sizing" our nuclear forces is good too. Eliminating them completely and totally dropping any capability of fighting another World War? No, that would be stupid.
Anyone with brains will get their shots. They'll also recognize that being vaccinated is preventive medicine, not a cure all. My mom is recovering from the flue in Virginia. The strain going around there wasn't covered by the vaccination, which she had wisely received. It's just her bad luck the flu she caught wasn't one of the three predicted six months ago as the most prevalent strains in the 2014-2015 flu season.
When I flew as a flight instructor, we wore parachutes. I preflighted my 'chute every flight. Over 2500 times. Didn't use it once. Should I have just skipped preflighting my parachute based on the odds? Would that be wise? Or should I be smart and proactive?
http://oi58.tinypic.com/34xm592.jpg
Bad analogy. Your parachute, if properly packed will save you the one time you need it. A flu vaccine for the wrong influenza is a waste of time. Every time.
Max Rockatansky
11-02-2014, 06:21 PM
Bad analogy. Your parachute, if properly packed will save you the one time you need it. A flu vaccine for the wrong influenza is a waste of time. Every time.
My parachute might save me. It's one chute and no reserve. If packed improperly or if I missed something on preflight or if I jump outside the envelope it won't help at all. It's the equivalent of preventive medicine, but it is certainly no silver bullet.
A flu shot is preventive medicine for the most common predicted flu strains and it will protect from those strains. However, if you get a flu shot every year (under current technology) it won't necessarily protect you from next year's strain(s).
So, if you think all shots or just flu shots are a waste of time, fine. Your choice. I will continue to keep my vaccinations current, including flu shots. It's proactive preventive medicine.
PolWatch
11-02-2014, 06:25 PM
Life is a crap shoot...my doc recommends I get the flu shots & I listen. I haven't had the flu since I started getting them. If I can lessen my chances of getting the flu by 1%, I'll do it...
Max Rockatansky
11-02-2014, 06:33 PM
Life is a crap shoot...my doc recommends I get the flu shots & I listen. I haven't had the flu since I started getting them. If I can lessen my chances of getting the flu by 1%, I'll do it...
Exactly. We do waht what we can to minimize risk and maximize our odds of success. If a vaccination, fully covered by most medical plans, does that, then count me in.
Peter1469
11-02-2014, 08:02 PM
My parachute might save me. It's one chute and no reserve. If packed improperly or if I missed something on preflight or if I jump outside the envelope it won't help at all. It's the equivalent of preventive medicine, but it is certainly no silver bullet.
A flu shot is preventive medicine for the most common predicted flu strains and it will protect from those strains. However, if you get a flu shot every year (under current technology) it won't necessarily protect you from next year's strain(s).
So, if you think all shots or just flu shots are a waste of time, fine. Your choice. I will continue to keep my vaccinations current, including flu shots. It's proactive preventive medicine.
I never said all vaccines were a waste of time. Flu for healthy people is.
Max Rockatansky
11-02-2014, 08:13 PM
I never said all vaccines were a waste of time. Flu for healthy people is.
I'm guessing you're operating on the premise that being sick strengthens one's immune system. I agree with this premise to an extent. However, I'm still getting my flu shots. :)
BTW, that premise deals more with growing immune systems, i.e. children, not adults. Once we're adults, we're pretty much set.
PolWatch
11-02-2014, 08:13 PM
I'm in pretty good shape for the shape I'm in...but since I'm in one of the high risk groups (65+) I'll continue to get shot at often....
Mister D
11-02-2014, 08:15 PM
Life is a crap shoot...my doc recommends I get the flu shots & I listen. I haven't had the flu since I started getting them. If I can lessen my chances of getting the flu by 1%, I'll do it...
They offer them at work every year. no thanks. I'm not a fan of needles anyway.
PolWatch
11-02-2014, 08:16 PM
They offer them at work every year. no thanks. I'm not a fan of needles anyway.
I can't watch...I'm a wuss...
Mister D
11-02-2014, 08:19 PM
I can't watch...I'm a wuss...
lol Same here. I had to look at the wall when I had my last blood test.
PolWatch
11-02-2014, 08:21 PM
I'm the only woman I know that was begging for a pill instead of a shot in the labor room....told ya I'm a wuss!
Max Rockatansky
11-02-2014, 08:22 PM
I can't watch...I'm a wuss...
A matter of mind over matter. Watch with dispassion. It's just a needle going into an arm.
exotix
11-02-2014, 08:25 PM
Can you imagine a person with Ebola and the common cold at the same time infecting everyone in their path?
If those two viruses got together and mutated.....
They wouldn't necessarily have to mutate since a person with Ebola and the cold now have another avenue of transmission which is the coughing and sneezing symptoms of the common cold. The only reason why they are saying this strain is not airborne is largely due to the fact that coughing and sneezing is not typically the symptoms of Ebola.
Yes, that is what THEY say but the new CDC guidelines insist on the nose, mouth, eyes be totally covered as well as all exposed skin. Now, what does that tell you?
If I were a nurse today and observed the lies I would find another profession.http://i59.tinypic.com/2e36h76.gif
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y
PolWatch
11-02-2014, 08:25 PM
nope, no how, no way...its my arm! My son had arthroscopic surgery on his knee at 16 & they had a closed circuit TV in the waiting room so we could watch, even made a tape of it. Husband & son both watched...not me. When he got stitches as a child, my husband had to clean them 'cause I couldn't look at them. I cut a finger while cutting floor tile & fainted. I am a super wuss....Florence Nightingale I ain't!
Peter1469
11-02-2014, 09:12 PM
Keep your immune system strong and you are good to go.
I'm guessing you're operating on the premise that being sick strengthens one's immune system. I agree with this premise to an extent. However, I'm still getting my flu shots. :)
BTW, that premise deals more with growing immune systems, i.e. children, not adults. Once we're adults, we're pretty much set.
Common
11-02-2014, 09:18 PM
Needles dont bother me at all its not like the pain is debiliating or anything, takes two seconds
Max Rockatansky
11-03-2014, 07:50 AM
Keep your immune system strong and you are good to go.
A strong immune system is important to help but completely foregoing vaccinations and other preventative health measures is like going into combat without body armor on Nietzschean premise "That which does not kill us makes us stronger".
Peter1469
11-03-2014, 03:11 PM
A strong immune system is important to help but completely foregoing vaccinations and other preventative health measures is like going into combat without body armor on Nietzschean premise "That which does not kill us makes us stronger".
I agree about some vaccines. Not all of them, to include the flu.
Max Rockatansky
11-03-2014, 04:43 PM
I agree about some vaccines. Not all of them, to include the flu.
Why not the flu?
While kids need to develop their immune systems, it's pretty much set at adulthood and weakens with age. Deliberately or recklessly getting sick as an adult to strengthen one's immune system makes a much sense as beating one's head against a wall to toughen one's brain.
Peter1469
11-03-2014, 05:21 PM
Why not the flu?
While kids need to develop their immune systems, it's pretty much set at adulthood and weakens with age. Deliberately or recklessly getting sick as an adult to strengthen one's immune system makes a much sense as beating one's head against a wall to toughen one's brain.
Because there is no evidence that the flu vaccine works. Granted, very few people have negative reactions to it, but some do.
The former Chief Vaccine Office at the FDA, Dr. Anthony Morris states: “there is no evidence that any influenza vaccine thus far developed is effective in preventing or mitigating any attack of influenza.” - See more at: http://www.naturalblaze.com/2014/11/this-could-be-biggest-seasonal-flu-lie.html#sthash.hD1OQUZ2.dpuf
Because there is no evidence that the flu vaccine works. Granted, very few people have negative reactions to it, but some do.
That article is a good one and it amazes me that people do not see the ulterior motives for pushing flu shots which is money.
Max Rockatansky
11-03-2014, 05:40 PM
Because there is no evidence that the flu vaccine works. Granted, very few people have negative reactions to it, but some do.
Disagreed. There's tons of evidence flu vaccine works. I think the problem is people who don't understand what it does.
In short, there are lots of flu strains. Each is different. Every year new strains evolve. Mostly on pig farms in China. Why, I don't know, but that's what I've read. Current med tech only allows us to make a vaccine that protects against a single strain. Each year doctors look at prevailing strains and take a guess at what 3 strains are most likely to be the most prevalent that season. Why only 3 and not 2 or 4? I don't know. Vaccines take time to develop so there is a six month lead time in developing a sufficient quantity to protect the US population each flu season. My understanding is that "flu season" is when people are confined in closed rooms with each other such as during cold weather. If, as in the case of my mother and the state of Virginia, a strain of flu begins to be passed around that isn't covered by the vaccination, then people will become sick.
Aside from feeling like they have the world's worst hangover for 3-5 days, most young adults can survive the flu. Those most vulnerable are the very young, due to developing immune systems, and the very old, due to age-compromised immune systems.
I get a flu vaccination not because I couldn't survive it, but because I have had very bad hangovers and do not desire to risk one like it when a free vaccination would prevent it.
Max Rockatansky
11-03-2014, 05:41 PM
That article is a good one and it amazes me that people do not see the ulterior motives for pushing flu shots which is money.
Don't get one then. Advise all of your friends not to get one. Especially don't let any of your children see doctors or have vaccinations.
Peter1469
11-03-2014, 05:48 PM
Don't get one then. Advise all of your friends not to get one. Especially don't let any of your children see doctors or have vaccinations.
Don't lump all vaccines together. Many are very much needed and have proven track records.
PolWatch
11-03-2014, 05:49 PM
well, as a member of the high risk group, I will continue to get a flu shot. Reading the stats on the increase on whooping cough, measles, etc, I will also continue to encourage family to have their babies vaccinated....
Max Rockatansky
11-03-2014, 06:08 PM
well, as a member of the high risk group, I will continue to get a flu shot. Reading the stats on the increase on whooping cough, measles, etc, I will also continue to encourage family to have their babies vaccinated....
It may sound harsh, but I only encourage the smart and sane ones. Both traits are genetic.
http://oi61.tinypic.com/2f055q1.jpg
The Xl
11-03-2014, 06:20 PM
There really is nothing wrong with anyone skeptical of all the vaccines flooding the market. The medical industry has a profit incentive to keep people sick, dubious things are put in the vaccines, and disease rates, like cancer and autism, have exploded in recent times.
Max Rockatansky
11-03-2014, 06:31 PM
There really is nothing wrong with anyone skeptical of all the vaccines flooding the market.
People are free to believe as they wish.
The medical industry has a profit incentive to keep people sick, dubious things are put in the vaccines, and disease rates, like cancer and autism, have exploded in recent times.Same here about people believing as they like. If they want to believe in conspiracy theories, that's fine with me. If they don't believe in seat belts or think they feel freer riding a motorcycle without a helmet, I fully support their right to do so.
I completely disagree with Nanny State laws preventing people from doing things deemed too dangerous by others. Let people do as they please with the exception being when that action endangers innocents.
Evolution is good and letting our species streamline itself for the better through freedom of individual choice is a good thing.
The Xl
11-03-2014, 06:44 PM
People are free to believe as they wish.
Same here about people believing as they like. If they want to believe in conspiracy theories, that's fine with me. If they don't believe in seat belts or think they feel freer riding a motorcycle without a helmet, I fully support their right to do so.
I completely disagree with Nanny State laws preventing people from doing things deemed too dangerous by others. Let people do as they please with the exception being when that action endangers innocents.
Evolution is good and letting our species streamline itself for the better through freedom of individual choice is a good thing.
Conflating vaccines with seat-belts is hilariously illogical.
Indeed, let evolution take its course. I don't think it will unfold the way you seem to think it will, however.
Max Rockatansky
11-03-2014, 06:46 PM
Conflating vaccines with seat-belts is hilariously illogical.
Ridicule all you like, but we are agreed on letting evolution take its course.
The Xl
11-03-2014, 06:47 PM
Ridicule all you like, but we are agreed on letting evolution take its course.
Likewise and agreed.
Guerilla
11-03-2014, 07:40 PM
Disagreed. There's tons of evidence flu vaccine works. I think the problem is people who don't understand what it does.
In short, there are lots of flu strains. Each is different. Every year new strains evolve. Mostly on pig farms in China. Why, I don't know, but that's what I've read. Current med tech only allows us to make a vaccine that protects against a single strain. Each year doctors look at prevailing strains and take a guess at what 3 strains are most likely to be the most prevalent that season. Why only 3 and not 2 or 4? I don't know. Vaccines take time to develop so there is a six month lead time in developing a sufficient quantity to protect the US population each flu season. My understanding is that "flu season" is when people are confined in closed rooms with each other such as during cold weather. If, as in the case of my mother and the state of Virginia, a strain of flu begins to be passed around that isn't covered by the vaccination, then people will become sick.
Aside from feeling like they have the world's worst hangover for 3-5 days, most young adults can survive the flu. Those most vulnerable are the very young, due to developing immune systems, and the very old, due to age-compromised immune systems.
I get a flu vaccination not because I couldn't survive it, but because I have had very bad hangovers and do not desire to risk one like it when a free vaccination would prevent it.
The very young and the very old are the ones who shouldn't get vaccinated because their bodies are too weak to handle the toxins present in a vaccine. Vaccines have stuff you should never come into contact with, let alone put in your blood stream. Just because you don't have a classic reaction doesn't mean you aren't damaging your body.
Max Rockatansky
11-03-2014, 07:44 PM
The very young and the very old are the ones who shouldn't get vaccinated because their bodies are too weak to handle the toxins present in a vaccine. Vaccines have stuff you should never come into contact with, let alone put in your blood stream. Just because you don't have a classic reaction doesn't mean you aren't damaging your body.
The Xl and Peter1469 you have an ally!
Disagreed. There's tons of evidence flu vaccine works. I think the problem is people who don't understand what it does.
In short, there are lots of flu strains. Each is different. Every year new strains evolve. Mostly on pig farms in China. Why, I don't know, but that's what I've read. Current med tech only allows us to make a vaccine that protects against a single strain. Each year doctors look at prevailing strains and take a guess at what 3 strains are most likely to be the most prevalent that season. Why only 3 and not 2 or 4? I don't know. Vaccines take time to develop so there is a six month lead time in developing a sufficient quantity to protect the US population each flu season. My understanding is that "flu season" is when people are confined in closed rooms with each other such as during cold weather. If, as in the case of my mother and the state of Virginia, a strain of flu begins to be passed around that isn't covered by the vaccination, then people will become sick.
Aside from feeling like they have the world's worst hangover for 3-5 days, most young adults can survive the flu. Those most vulnerable are the very young, due to developing immune systems, and the very old, due to age-compromised immune systems.
I get a flu vaccination not because I couldn't survive it, but because I have had very bad hangovers and do not desire to risk one like it when a free vaccination would prevent it.
The reason why they evolve on pig farms in China is due to the fact that they also are breeding large number of chickens in the same area as those pigs. Pigs eat anything including the droppings of chickens which allow flu viruses to originate then mutate in the pigs and then on to Humans.
Max Rockatansky
11-04-2014, 08:09 AM
The reason why they evolve on pig farms in China is due to the fact that they also are breeding large number of chickens in the same area as those pigs. Pigs eat anything including the droppings of chickens which allow flu viruses to originate then mutate in the pigs and then on to Humans.
It's good to know you understand flu actually exists and isn't a hoax disease.
Captain Obvious
11-04-2014, 08:11 AM
There really is nothing wrong with anyone skeptical of all the vaccines flooding the market. The medical industry has a profit incentive to keep people sick, dubious things are put in the vaccines, and disease rates, like cancer and autism, have exploded in recent times.
I half agree, the other side of that is a local healthcare environment that is really concerned with the well being of people in the community. I see it on a regular basis.
It's good to know you understand flu actually exists and isn't a hoax disease.
Do you understand that the flu strains would not exist if China kept their pigs entirely separate from their poultry farming.
Max Rockatansky
11-04-2014, 01:10 PM
Do you understand that the flu strains would not exist if China kept their pigs entirely separate from their poultry farming.
That's incorrect. The flu strains exist and continue to evolve. Now, if you keep the humans away from the pigs and birds, then they won't be transmitted to humans.
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/avian_influenza/en/
Avian influenza (AI) is an infectious viral disease of birds (especially wild water fowl such as ducks and geese), often causing no apparent signs of illness. AI viruses can sometimes spread to domestic poultry and cause large-scale outbreaks of serious disease. Some of these AI viruses have also been reported to cross the species barrier and cause disease or subclinical infections in humans and other mammals.
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/swineflu/
Swine influenza (swine flu) (http://www.cdc.gov/flu/swineflu/influenza-in-swine.htm) is a respiratory disease of pigs caused by type A influenza viruses that regularly cause outbreaks of influenza in pigs. Influenza viruses that commonly circulate in swine are called “swine influenza viruses” or “swine flu viruses.” Like human influenza viruses, there are different subtypes and strains of swine influenza viruses. The main swine influenza viruses circulating in U.S. pigs in recent years are:
swine triple reassortant (tr) H1N1 influenza virus
trH3N2 virus
trH1N2 virus
Swine flu viruses do not normally infect humans. However, sporadic human infections with swine influenza viruses (http://www.cdc.gov/flu/swineflu/variant.htm) have occurred. When this happens, these viruses are called “variant viruses.” They also can be denoted by adding the letter “v” to the end of the virus subtype designation. Human infections with H1N1v, H3N2v and H1N2v viruses have been detected in the United States.
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