View Full Version : Is the US economy in a permanent slump?
Peter1469
11-05-2014, 08:14 PM
Is the US economy in a permanent slump? (http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-is-the-us-economy-in-a-permanent-slump-20141103-column.html)
I would not use the word permanent. Our economy will pick up again when we stop using government to keep it down.
http://www.trbimg.com/img-5457e880/turbine/la-fi-mh-is-the-us-economy-in-a-permanent-slum-001/750/750x422
Summers observes that growth in the U.S. and Europe--and projections for future growth--have been dismal and getting worse. (See graph above.) "U.S. economic growth has averaged only 2% over the last five years, despite having started from a highly depressed state," he writes.
What's worse, he asserts that growth was meager even in the pre-recession period, when it appeared to be quite healthy. But its fundamental sickness was masked by risky financing--"vast erosion of credit standards, the biggest housing bubble in a century, the emergence of substantial budget deficits, and what many criticize as lax monetary and regulatory policies.... It has been close to 20 years since the American economy grew at a healthy pace supported by sustainable finance."
Blackrook
11-05-2014, 09:30 PM
Well, Democrats always make it clear in their campaigns that they are the anti-business party, so no one should be surprised that business does poorly under their leadership.
donttread
11-06-2014, 06:36 AM
Is the US economy in a permanent slump? (http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-is-the-us-economy-in-a-permanent-slump-20141103-column.html)
I would not use the word permanent. Our economy will pick up again when we stop using government to keep it down.
http://www.trbimg.com/img-5457e880/turbine/la-fi-mh-is-the-us-economy-in-a-permanent-slum-001/750/750x422
Compared to the post WW2 economy and if we are talking about the middle class , then yes. It's difficult to imagine that vibrant an economy occurring again in my lifetime.
Keep in mind, as late as the 70's and even early 80's a couple could marry out of high school , own a home, raise a family and enjoy hobbies on just one income with no investment of time, money or debt in college. Now college graduates , even with there college loans paid off would be hard pressed to that.
Automization, sending manufacturing off shore, forcing every man into the stock market thereby redistributing wealth are all huge factors. There simply are not enough good jobs out there. And then of course we pay for a myriad of goods and services that didn't even exist back when . Like cable TV, internet etc. Outdoors was where we played and recreated and it was free
Captain Obvious
11-06-2014, 07:12 AM
No, it's an econimy correction. This is the new growth.
Peter1469
11-06-2014, 08:17 AM
Don't forget the massive numbers of women entering the work force after WWII. That depressed wages over time.
Compared to the post WW2 economy and if we are talking about the middle class , then yes. It's difficult to imagine that vibrant an economy occurring again in my lifetime.
Keep in mind, as late as the 70's and even early 80's a couple could marry out of high school , own a home, raise a family and enjoy hobbies on just one income with no investment of time, money or debt in college. Now college graduates , even with there college loans paid off would be hard pressed to that.
Automization, sending manufacturing off shore, forcing every man into the stock market thereby redistributing wealth are all huge factors. There simply are not enough good jobs out there. And then of course we pay for a myriad of goods and services that didn't even exist back when . Like cable TV, internet etc. Outdoors was where we played and recreated and it was free
Peter1469
11-06-2014, 08:18 AM
No, it's an econimy correction. This is the new growth.
New only in the sense that we have silly, harmful, and counterproductive tax and regulatory policies that we refuse to change.
We created the slump.
Captain Obvious
11-06-2014, 08:33 AM
New only in the sense that we have silly, harmful, and counterproductive tax and regulatory policies that we refuse to change.
We created the slump.
Maybe.
We're beyond the median global standard of living. This "correction" is only natural.
Other things will occur also, like the national debt. It will never get smaller.
Mac-7
11-06-2014, 08:47 AM
We're beyond the median global standard of living. This "correction" is only natural.
natural thanks to free trade but certainly not desirable.
No, most objective economists and folks at large see a bull economy with no end in sight --- what is with the doom & gloom?
Captain Obvious
11-06-2014, 08:57 AM
No, most objective economists and folks at large see a bull economy with no end in sight --- what is with the doom & gloom?
Do you think we're in a bull economy now?
Mac-7
11-06-2014, 08:58 AM
No, most objective economists and folks at large see a bull economy with no end in sight --- what is with the doom & gloom?
A bull economy does not limp along at 2% growth.
Do you think we're in a bull economy now?
No, we're in slow but steady mode. Upside wise, from corporate profits to stocks to potential for the next few years ... it's hard to remember a more promising period in US history.
Is the middle class feeling all this good fortune? Nope, which is why we need to get big money out of politics and have the Monty Burns' of the world pay their fair share.
Captain Obvious
11-06-2014, 09:09 AM
No, we're in slow but steady mode. Upside wise, from corporate profits to stocks to potential for the next few years ... it's hard to remember a more promising period in US history.
Is the middle class feeling all this good fortune? Nope, which is why we need to get big money out of politics and have the Monty Burns' of the world pay their fair share.
We're in slow, steady growth. It's better than recession and all the phoney gloom and doom wingnuts fauxrage in.
But I think this is the new new. I don't see bull economies on the horizon because I think we've over-leveraged our standard of living and you know as well as I do the wealthy aren't giving up their piece of that pie, it's going to get bigger.
And yeah, the middle class takes that hit.
We're in slow, steady growth. It's better than recession and all the phoney gloom and doom wingnuts fauxrage in.
But I think this is the new new. I don't see bull economies on the horizon because I think we've over-leveraged our standard of living and you know as well as I do the wealthy aren't giving up their piece of that pie, it's going to get bigger.
And yeah, the middle class takes that hit.
Not sure about the over-leveraged standard of living part. I've read a few stories and studies of late that would suggest that individual debt is way down while home values have risen to nearly 2006 levels.
Peter1469
11-06-2014, 10:42 AM
Not sure about the over-leveraged standard of living part. I've read a few stories and studies of late that would suggest that individual debt is way down while home values have risen to nearly 2006 levels.
My condo has not returned to 2006 levels. Not close. It is fairly close to what I paid for it.
Captain Obvious
11-06-2014, 10:48 AM
My condo has not returned to 2006 levels. Not close. It is fairly close to what I paid for it.
Your area is outside the bell curve of the real estate market though.
My home I owned since before 2006 has appreciated.
Your area is outside the bell curve of the real estate market though.
My home I owned since before 2006 has appreciated.
Ditto, bout mine at the peak early '07 and it's 30-40k over what i paid in top-dollar land. NW Boise was up 14% last year -my neighborhood 17%. I feel fortunate.
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