The FBI: America’s Secret Police

[Ethereal]

The FBI: America’s Secret Police (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article40151.htm)

By John W. Whitehead



We want no Gestapo or secret police. The FBI is tending in that direction. They are dabbling in sex-life scandals and plain blackmail. J. Edgar Hoover would give his right eye to take over, and all congressmen and senators are afraid of him.—President Harry S. Truman



November 06, 2014 "ICH" - Secret police. Secret courts. Secret government agencies. Surveillance. Intimidation tactics. Harassment. Torture. Brutality. Widespread corruption. Entrapment schemes.

These are the hallmarks of every authoritarian regime from the Roman Empire to modern-day America, yet it’s the secret police—tasked with silencing dissidents, ensuring compliance, and maintaining a climate of fear—who sound the death knell for freedom in every age.

Every regime has its own name for its secret police: Mussolini’s OVRA carried out phone surveillance on government officials. Stalin’s NKVD carried out large-scale purges, terror and depopulation. Hitler’s Gestapo went door to door ferreting out dissidents and other political “enemies” of the state. And in the U.S., it’s the Federal Bureau of Investigation that does the dirty work of ensuring compliance, keeping tabs on potential dissidents, and punishing those who dare to challenge the status quo.

Whether the FBI is planting undercover agents in churches, synagogues and mosques; issuing fake emergency letters to gain access to Americans’ phone records; using intimidation tactics to silence Americans who are critical of the government, or persuading impressionable individuals to plot acts of terror and then entrapping them, the overall impression of the nation’s secret police force is that of a well-dressed thug, flexing its muscles and doing the boss’ dirty work.

Indeed, a far cry from the glamorized G-men depicted in Hollywood film noirs and spy thrillers, the government’s henchmen have become the embodiment of how power, once acquired, can be so easily corrupted and abused.

Case in point: the FBI is being sued after its agents, lacking sufficient evidence to acquire a search warrant, disabled a hotel’s internet and then impersonated Internet repair technicians in order to gain access to a hotel suite and record the activities of the room’s occupants. Justifying the warrantless search as part of a sting on internet gambling, FBI officials insisted that citizens should not expect the same right to privacy in the common room of a hotel suite as they would at home in their bedroom.

Far from being tough on crime, FBI agents are also among the nation’s most notorious lawbreakers. In fact, in addition to creating certain crimes in order to then “solve” them, the FBI also gives certain informants permission to break the law, “including everything from buying and selling illegal drugs to bribing government officials and plotting robberies,” in exchange for their cooperation on other fronts. USA Today estimates that agents have authorized criminals to engage in as many as 15 crimes a day. Some of these informants are getting paid astronomical sums: one particularly unsavory fellow, later arrested for attempting to run over a police officer, was actually paid $85,000 for his help laying the trap for an entrapment scheme.

In a stunning development reported by The Washington Post, a probe into misconduct by an FBI agent has resulted in the release of at least a dozen convicted drug dealers from prison. Several suspects awaiting trial have also been freed, and more could be released as the unnamed agent’s caseload comes under scrutiny. As the Post reports: “The scope and type of alleged misconduct by the agent have not been revealed, but defense lawyers involved in the cases described the mass freeing of felons as virtually unprecedented—and an indication that convictions could be in jeopardy. Prosecutors are periodically faced with having to drop cases over police misconduct, but it is unusual to free those who have been found guilty.”

In addition to procedural misconduct, trespassing, enabling criminal activity, and damaging private property, the FBI’s laundry list of crimes against the American people includes surveillance, disinformation, blackmail, entrapment, intimidation tactics, and harassment.

CONTINUED...

Only the most deluded and ignorant Americans will not admit the US is a police state that has borrowed tactics and even personnel from authoritarian regimes such as the Nazis.

Whether it's generalized warrants, mass spying, methodological opacity, or corruption, the FBI has become yet another criminal agency operating totally outside the bounds of legality and ethical conduct.

Like the CIA, which is quite possibly the most evil agency on the planet, the FBI has become nothing more than a sophisticated front for corporate hegemony, exploitation, and oppression.

But as history has shown, such evil and corruption cannot go on forever, and eventually the people will wake up and demand accountability from these handmaidens of the plutocracy.

[Mac-7]

Only the most deluded and ignorant Americans will not admit the US is a police state that has borrowed tactics and even personnel from authoritarian regimes such as the Nazis.

Whether it's generalized warrants, mass spying, methodological opacity, or corruption, the FBI has become yet another criminal agency operating totally outside the bounds of legality and ethical conduct.

Like the CIA, which is quite possibly the most evil agency on the planet, the FBI has become nothing more than a sophisticated front for corporate hegemony, exploitation, and oppression.

But as history has shown, such evil and corruption cannot go on forever, and eventually the people will wake up and demand accountability from these handmaidens of the plutocracy.

The CIA is far from the "most evil a agency on the planet."

But some of your concerns have merit.

The abuse of power by the IRS against the Tea Party is very troubling.

[Ethereal]

The CIA is far from the "most evil a agency on the planet."

Like you would know.


But some of your concerns have merit.

The abuse of power by the IRS against the Tea Party is very troubling.

In other words, when the state comes after YOU, it's a problem.

[Mac-7]

In other words, when the state comes after YOU, it's a problem.

IRS abuse of power does not count with you?

[Ethereal]

IRS abuse of power does not count with you?

Of course it does. The IRS should be abolished.

[PolWatch]

I wonder if anyone believes this is the first time the IRS has been used to target political enemies....anyone remember Richard M Nixon?

[Ravens Fan]

I wonder if anyone believes this is the first time the IRS has been used to target political enemies....anyone remember Richard M Nixon?

I agree, but that still doesn't make it right. The IRS has completely too much power, and should be abolished.

[Mac-7]

I wonder if anyone believes this is the first time the IRS has been used to target political enemies....anyone remember Richard M Nixon?

Nixon is very old history .

The IRS abuse I'm talking about is happening now.

[PolWatch]

I agree, but that still doesn't make it right. The IRS has completely too much power, and should be abolished.

I agree 100%. My point was why is it now a problem...when it has been going on since they were created.

[Ravens Fan]

I agree 100%. My point was why is it now a problem...when it has been going on since they were created.

I can appreciate that. Neither side really wants to fix it, because they both use it their own advantage. Doesn't change the fact though that those practices were wrong then and are just as wrong now, no matter who is in charge.

[Mac-7]

I agree 100%. My point was why is it now a problem...when it has been going on since they were created.

You cited Nixon.

why pick on him if, according to you, everyone does it?

[Animal Mother]

The CIA is far from the "most evil a agency on the planet."

But some of your concerns have merit.

The abuse of power by the IRS against the Tea Party is very troubling.

No, it's pretty much the most evil agency on the planet but keep those blinders on, pops.

[Animal Mother]

I agree 100%. My point was why is it now a problem...when it has been going on since they were created.

Because unless it's on TV it's not happening.

[PolWatch]

You cited Nixon.

why pick on him if, according to you, everyone does it?

The FBI has been used to gather info for use against political enemies since J Edgar bought his first dress. The IRS, prob the same (Nixon is the 1st I know of). Its interesting that this is acceptable behavior until it targets YOUR political party.

[Animal Mother]

The FBI has been used to gather info for use against political enemies since J Edgar bought his first dress. The IRS, prob the same (Nixon is the 1st I know of). Its interesting that this is acceptable behavior until it targets YOUR political party.

That's true of all the partisans, but the rest of us have to be vigilant and care every time, pol. I hated Bush. I hate Obama. I hate them for what they've done to this country and worse than I hate them, I hate Democrats and Republicans who refuse to care when it's their guy out of team loyalty.

There are 320 million of us and like 600 of them. They are able to do these things because we are engaged in team sport rivalry and let them.

[Redrose]

Of course it does. The IRS should be abolished.


I agree, and I worked there. But replaced with what? We must tread carefully there.

Why do you think the ACA is so closely intwined with the IRS? They are the muscle to collect revenue to fund this massive, greedy big government machine strangling us.

We received our 2015 health insurance packet last night on the computer. 182 pages long, it used to be 5 pages long. That is what the ACA did to make things better. BS.

The pages were riddled with references to IRS regulations. It took my husband several hours to review it all and make the selection.

If the Dems say the ACA is here to stay, then you know darn well so is the IRS.

[PolWatch]

not only the dems are saying the ACA is here to stay...repubs are too. They are just not making a lotta noise about it (at least, before the election).

[Ethereal]

I agree, and I worked there. But replaced with what? We must tread carefully there.

Why do you think the ACA is so closely intwined with the IRS? They are the muscle to collect revenue to fund this massive, greedy big government machine strangling us.

We received our 2015 health insurance packet last night on the computer. 182 pages long, it used to be 5 pages long. That is what the ACA did to make things better. BS.

The pages were riddled with references to IRS regulations. It took my husband several hours to review it all and make the selection.

If the Dems say the ACA is here to stay, then you know darn well so is the IRS.

Why does it need to be replaced with anything? This country thrived without an IRS for over a century.

[Mac-7]

No, it's pretty much the most evil agency on the planet but keep those blinders on, pops.

I wonder where libs get this self hatred of America from ?

The CIA serves America.

Without it all these years we may not be free to disagree today.

[Ethereal]

I wonder where libs get this self hatred of America from ?

And I wonder why faux conservatives conflate the federal government with "America", as if they were the same thing.


The CIA serves America.

That makes for a nice bedtime story, but the truth is they serve themselves and corporate special interest groups.


Without it all these years we may not be free to disagree today.

One wonders how America managed to remain free and prosperous in the 150 years before its existence.

[Animal Mother]

I wonder where libs get this self hatred of America from ?

The CIA serves America.

Without it all these years we may not be free to disagree today.

Oh I see in your warped brain hating an agency that tortures, blackmails, lies, and spies on citizens and foreign nationals is hating America.

Get the fuck out with that crazy shit.

[donttread]

The CIA is far from the "most evil a agency on the planet."

But some of your concerns have merit.

The abuse of power by the IRS against the Tea Party is very troubling.

Just what agencies are responsible for more death and destruction then the CIA?

[Redrose]

We did need health care addressed, but this ACA is not the answer. It needs some serious tweaking to function better. Prices went up not down, who does that help? The one thing that scares the tar out of me is the IRS connection with the whole deal. That is bad news for ALL of us. It's bad enough that the IRS has your social security number, address, phone number and financial information, but now under the ACA rules, they will have access to your accounts...without your permission. They will have access to your most private medical info too.

I never cared that some pencil pusher in the IRS saw what I had in the bank, or what my salary was, but I do take issue with them knowing what my innerds are doing. As to men, do you want them knowing you need a penile implant? or a woman who had a mastectomy or cosmetic surgery? Or even more private sex reassignment surgery. Many of the employees hired to process info between these agencies work for ACORN. They have been shown to hire people without proper background screenings. Some reports show convicted criminals are now processing your most private information. Are you comfortable with that, I'm not.

We're leaving ourselves wide open for serious problems. I'm hoping the new Congress can either tweak or replace the ACA with a plan that will benefit the American people with real affordable health insurance and minimize the security risks that riddle the current law.

[Matty]

As long as the ACA is around damaging the middle class, which will be two more years the Republicans chances in 2016 go up up up.

[Ethereal]

I'm happy to bash the IRS and the CIA, but I would also like to discuss the thread topic, which is the FBI.

In particular, I would like to address the early attempts by US government officials to not only model the FBI on the Nazi secret police, but to recruit Nazis into the government at large.

The effects of this Nazification are still lingering till this day. The upper echelons of the US government are a haven for sociopaths and nobody seems to notice or care.

[Animal Mother]

And this is just de-classified shit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

http://www.archives.gov/iwg/declassified-records/rg-330-defense-secretary/

[Mac-7]

Oh I see in your warped brain hating an agency that tortures, blackmails, lies, and spies on citizens and foreign nationals is hating America.

Get the $#@! out with that crazy $#@!.

Without the CIA during the Cold War there might not be an America as we know it today.

[del]

Without the CIA during the Cold War there might not be an America as we know it today.

that's the problem, slick

[Mac-7]

that's the problem, slick

Only a lib would say that.

Conservatives still love this country in spite of bad things Obama and the progressives have done to it.

[Ethereal]

Only a lib would say that.

Conservatives still love this country in spite of bad things Obama and the progressives have done to it.

According to your logic, Obama is the “country", after all, you failed earlier to make a distinction between the government and America.

[Animal Mother]

Only a lib would say that.

Conservatives still love this country in spite of bad things Obama and the progressives have done to it.


You can love your kid without being permissive and allowing them to be a holy terror running through the walmart kicking other kids and pulling shit off the shelves.

[Mister D]

And this is just de-classified $#@!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

http://www.archives.gov/iwg/declassified-records/rg-330-defense-secretary/

Paperclip was a masterstroke although I'll grant that we have had more unsavory dealings with former Nazis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaus_Barbie#US_intelligence_and_Bolivia

[Mac-7]

You can love your kid without being permissive and allowing them to be a holy terror running through the walmart kicking other kids and pulling $#@! off the shelves.

We have a very different view of America.

America has served as the world's policeman many times since WWII.

but that just goes with being the #1 nation on the planet.

[Animal Mother]

We have a very different view of America.

America has served as the world's policeman many times since WWII.

but that just goes with being the #1 nation on the planet.

You think America is the government. I think it's the people. The CIA are terrorists. I can love America and still say that. If I didn't have some love of country I never would have joined the military.

[Ethereal]

We have a very different view of America.

America has served as the world's policeman many times since WWII.

but that just goes with being the #1 nation on the planet.

No, the U.S. government has taken it upon themselves to police the world while the majority of Americans were just trying to mind their own business and live their lives. For some reason, you seem incapable of drawing a distinction between the state and the people, unless it serves your purposes, of course.

[Redrose]

I'm happy to bash the IRS and the CIA, but I would also like to discuss the thread topic, which is the FBI.

In particular, I would like to address the early attempts by US government officials to not only model the FBI on the Nazi secret police, but to recruit Nazis into the government at large.

The effects of this Nazification are still lingering till this day. The upper echelons of the US government are a haven for sociopaths and nobody seems to notice or care.


There are plenty of sociopaths running loose all around us, so apparently we're conditioned to just accept them. It's politically incorrect to say anything bad against anybody. Everybody is freaking great.

J. Edgar Hoover was the biggest weirdo of them all. He had book on everybody, which kept him in power for years, decades. People complained about McCarthy, Hoover was much worse.

[Ethereal]

There are plenty of sociopaths running loose all around us...

True, but most of them do not wield the kind of power that the upper echelons of the US government posses. A sociopath who is protected by secrecy, wealth, and the color of law is far more dangerous than your run of the mill sociopath who cuts you off on the highway and feels no remorse about it.


...so apparently we're conditioned to just accept them. It's politically incorrect to say anything bad against anybody. Everybody is freaking great.

J. Edgar Hoover was the biggest weirdo of them all. He had book on everybody, which kept him in power for years, decades. People complained about McCarthy, Hoover was much worse.

He was also free to copy and recruit Nazis at his pleasure, and he was not restrained by the kind of narrowness of focus that characterized Operation Paperclip.

The FBI’s shameful recruitment of Nazi war criminals (http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2013/03/06/the-fbis-shameful-recruitment-of-nazi-war-criminals/)

[Mac-7]

According to your logic, Obama is the “country", after all, you failed earlier to make a distinction between the government and America.

So did your friend Animal Mother in post #28.

the difference between us is I still love America in spite of a president and party that I despise but when libs see America they see the CIA that they hate.

so you end up with dark thoughts about the country also.

[Animal Mother]

So did your friend Animal Mother in post #28.

the difference between us is I still love America in spite of a president and party that I despise but when libs see America they see the CIA that they hate.

so you end up with dark thoughts about the country also.


Not really. When I say I love my country I mean I love the food, the people, Megan Fox, muscle cars, our landscape, southern culture and then see the CIA putting all that at jeopardy.

I swore an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States against enemies foreign and domestic. They are an enemy to America and our way of life.

[Mac-7]

Not really. When I say I love my country I mean I love the food, the people, Megan Fox, muscle cars, our landscape, southern culture and then see the CIA putting all that at jeopardy.



I think of America as more than a place to get good pizza.

and I'm sure that you do too even though it does not sound like it at times.

[Ethereal]

So did your friend Animal Mother in post #28.

the difference between us is I still love America in spite of a president and party that I despise but when libs see America they see the CIA that they hate.

so you end up with dark thoughts about the country also.

The CIA is not America, they are one agency within the federal government. America is the land, the free market, and the culture that springs forth from it.

[Mister D]

I think of America as more than a place to get good pizza.

and I'm sure that you do too even though it does not sound like it at times.

If so, keep an eye on your handlers. For them, the entire world is America: a place where people eat pizza, watch reality TV, and cheer when a Negro puts a ball in a basket.

[Mac-7]

You think America is the government. I think it's the people. The CIA are terrorists. I can love America and still say that. If I didn't have some love of country I never would have joined the military.

Don't be silly.

I think America is more than the government.

and I certainly don't think the CIA is the one dimensional comic book character that you see it as.

The CIA are not perfect but at the same time they have done heroic service for America and we could not have survived the Cold War without them.

[Alyosha]

I think of America as more than a place to get good pizza.

and I'm sure that you do too even though it does not sound like it at times.

You completely miss the point. We are under the sway of a rogue government beneath our government that has irretrievably changed the landscape of our rights, liberties, and culture and you defend these cretins under the guise of some misplaced patriotism.

Patriotism is fighting for the soul of your country, not giving into temptation and evil just to "be number 1, be number 1".

Cheerleaders aren't players and they aren't vital to the game. Keep looking the other way as the soul of the country crumbles--and quite frankly everything he said IS America. America is us, the people, our towns, our lives, not the 600 people who whore out their votes in Washington and certainly not the insipid, vile people at agencies like the CIA who have admitted under oath to torturing children, drugging unsuspecting people, torture, and other anti-Christ activities.

[Ethereal]

Nationalism is a form of idolatry anyway. No true Christian can be a flag-waver under a secular state like the US.

[Alyosha]

Nationalism is a form of idolatry anyway. No true Christian can be a flag-waver under a secular state like the US.

I always wondered about the religious like devotion to the state from Republicans who also claim to be Christians. There is no biblical basis for it, but then again I don't understand statism as there is no logical basis for that.

[Ethereal]

The US government is virulently anti-Christian, and it comes from both sides, whether it's in their occult symbolism (obelisks, pyramids, etc.), sayings (novus ordo seclorum), or practices (Bohemian Grove), all facets of the US government are polluted by satanic elements.


http://youtu.be/dPb-PN9F2Pc

[PolWatch]

I always wondered about the religious like devotion to the state from Republicans who also claim to be Christians. There is no biblical basis for it, but then again I don't understand statism as there is no logical basis for that.

good advertising did the trick. I don't know about other areas, but here all a politician needs to get elected is a flag pin in one lapel, and a cross in the other. imho, it began in the 50's when 'under God' was inserted into the Pledge of Allegiance and has continued until now. I have always believed it was part of the southern strategy of the 60's...they wanted to get the south to change from majority dem to repub. Tying politics to religion is one of the areas they used. The plan was successful in the south and has been spread nationwide.

[Mac-7]

You completely miss the point. We are under the sway of a rogue government beneath our government that has irretrievably changed the landscape of our rights, liberties, and culture and you defend these cretins under the guise of some misplaced patriotism.

Patriotism is fighting for the soul of your country, not giving into temptation and evil just to "be number 1, be number 1".

Cheerleaders aren't players and they aren't vital to the game. Keep looking the other way as the soul of the country crumbles--and quite frankly everything he said IS America. America is us, the people, our towns, our lives, not the 600 people who $#@! out their votes in Washington and certainly not the insipid, vile people at agencies like the CIA who have admitted under oath to torturing children, drugging unsuspecting people, torture, and other anti-Christ activities.

When has the CIA tortured children?

[Alyosha]

When has the CIA tortured children?

I've posted the Congressional hearings several times on this forum, including in threads you've been in. If you never bothered to read before why would you read it now. Here, a picture is worth a thousand words:

http://sometimesinteresting.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/mkultra-8.jpg



https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Project_MKULTRA.html


Project MKULTRA, or MK-ULTRA, was the code name for a covert, illegal CIA (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Intelligence_Agency) human research program, run by the Office of Scientific Intelligence (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Intelligence_Agency_Directorate_of_Science _%26_Technology). This official U.S. government (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._government) program began in the early 1950s, continuing at least through the late 1960s, and it used U.S. and Canadian citizens as its test subjects.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA#cite_note-0)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA#cite_note-nytimes.com-1)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA#cite_note-2)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA#cite_note-3)


The published evidence indicates that Project MKULTRA involved the use of many methodologies to manipulate individual mental states and alter brain functions, including the surreptitious administration of drugs and other chemicals, sensory deprivation, isolation, and verbal and sexual abuse.


Project MKULTRA was first brought to wide public attention in 1975 by the U.S. Congress (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congress_of_the_United_States), through investigations by the Church Committee (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee), and by a presidential commission known as the Rockefeller Commission (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_President%27s_Commission_on_CIA_acti vities_within_the_United_States). Investigative efforts were hampered by the fact that CIA Director Richard Helms (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Helms) ordered all MKULTRA files destroyed in 1973; the Church Committee and Rockefeller Commission investigations relied on the sworn testimony of direct participants and on the relatively small number of documents that survived Helms' destruction order.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA#cite_note-Cia-4)


In 1977, a FOIA (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_Information_Act_%28United_States%29) request uncovered a cache of 20,000 documents[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA#cite_note-Wanttoknow.info-5) relating to project MKULTRA, which led to the Senate Hearings of 1977.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA#cite_note-nytimes.com-1) In recent times most information regarding MKULTRA has been officially declassified (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declassification).


Although the CIA insists that MKULTRA-type experiments have been abandoned, 14-year CIA veteran Victor Marchetti (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Marchetti) has stated in various interviews that the CIA routinely conducts disinformation (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinformation) campaigns and that CIA mind control (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_control) research continued. In a 1977 interview, Marchetti specifically called the CIA claim that MKULTRA was abandoned a "cover story."[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA#cite_note-6)[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA#cite_note-7)


On the Senate floor in 1977, Senator Ted Kennedy (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kennedy) said:


The Deputy Director of the CIA revealed that over thirty universities and institutions were involved in an "extensive testing and experimentation" program which included covert drug tests on unwitting citizens "at all social levels, high and low, native Americans and foreign." Several of these tests involved the administration of LSD (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide) to "unwitting subjects in social situations." At least one death, that of Dr. Olson (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Olson), resulted from these activities. The Agency itself acknowledged that these tests made little scientific sense. The agents doing the monitoring were not qualified scientific observers.[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA#cite_note-8)

[Mac-7]

I've posted the Congressional hearings several times on this forum, including in threads you've been in. If you never bothered to read before why would you read it now. Here, a picture is worth a thousand words:

http://sometimesinteresting.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/mkultra-8.jpg



https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Project_MKULTRA.html

I don't know enough about this project to defend it without reservation, but what's described here is not "torture" of children as you claimed.

At one time in the early 1950s LSD was an experimental drug used for research.

Research carried out at 42 universities according to your source.

Many of the subjects were volunteers who were paid for their service.

I believe the CIA is capable of going too far and probably has.

but no one here has made the case that it is the most evil organization on the planet.

[Alyosha]

I don't know enough about this project to defend it without reservation, but what's described here is not "torture" of children as you claimed.

Yes, it was. Start reading the materials. I happen to find sexual abuse of children a form of torture, maybe you don't.

[Alyosha]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jawon3Ig-R0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pceuQZbVymg

[Mac-7]

Yes, it was. Start reading the materials. I happen to find sexual abuse of children a form of torture, maybe you don't.

Quote or document the sexual abuse you claim.

[Alyosha]

One girl who was awarded a mere $120,000 had a her vagina "stimulated" with electrical shocks at age 12. I hope she didn't spend it all in one place...

[Alyosha]

Quote or document the equal abuse you claim.



http://vimeo.com/69689688

There are 20,000 documents in that archive which led to the findings of the US government which asserted that these things indeed did happen. You can choose to be an ignorant puppet or read them all yourself if you truly care about America and her soul.

[Alyosha]

From my original link


CIA document and page number: 190684, pp. 1, 4
Title: Outline of Special H Cases
Date: 7 January 1953
Page 1 (http://www.wanttoknow.info/mind_control/foia_mind_control/190684.1_hypnosis_mind_control_girls), Page 4 (http://www.wanttoknow.info/mind_control/foia_mind_control/190684.4_hypnosis_mind_control_girls)
In a general request for volunteers [deleted names] volunteered for H [hypnosis] experimentation and were originally tested on 21 May 1951. Both girls, at this time, were nineteen years of age. These subjects have clearly demonstrated that they can pass from a fully awake state to a deep H controlled state via the telephone, via some very subtle signal that cannot be detected by other persons in the room, and without the other individuals being able to note the change. It has been shown clearly that physically individuals can be induced into H by telephone, by receiving written matter, or by the use of code, signal, or words. Control of those hypnotized can be passed from one individual to another without great difficulty. It has also been shown by experimentation with these girls that they can act as unwilling couriers for information purposes, and that they can be conditioned to a point where they believe a change in identity on their part even on the polygraph.



Note: This document shows that CIA experimenters were successful in hypnotizing young women (19 years old in this case) to do things they would not do normally without any memory afterward, sometimes even unwillingly. Though they volunteered, these women were thus programmed to be Manchurian Candidates or super spies with no knowledge of what these men were doing to them.




CIA document and page number: 17395, p. 18
Title: ESP Research
Date: Unknown
Link to view image of original: Click here (http://www.wanttoknow.info/mind_control/foia_mind_control/17395_drugs_electric_shock_mind_control)
Learning models will be instituted in which the subject will be rewarded or punished for his overall performance and reinforced in various ways – by being told whether he was right, by being told what the target was, with electric shock etc. ... In other cases drugs and psychological tricks will be used to modify his attitudes. The experimenters will be particularly interested in disassociative states, from the abaissement de niveau (http://www.nyaap.org/index.php/id/7/subid/44) mental to multiple personality in so-called mediums, and an attempt will be made to induce a number of states of this kind, using hypnosis.



CIA document and page number: 140393, p. 1
Title: [Deleted]
Date: 9 July 1951
Link to view image of original: Click here (http://www.wanttoknow.info/mind_control/foia_mind_control/cia_sexual_abuse_mind_control)
On 2 July 1951 approximately 1:00 p.m. the instruction began with [deleted] relating to the student some of his sexual experiences. [Deleted] stated that he had constantly used hypnotism as a means of inducing young girls to engage in sexual intercourse with him. [Deleted], a performer in [deleted] orchestra, was forced to engage in sexual intercourse with [deleted] while under the influence of hypnotism. [Deleted] stated that he first put her into a hypnotic trance and then suggested to her that he was her husband and that she desired sexual intercourse with him.



How much more do you want? I can keep picking them or you can go read them for yourself?

[Alyosha]

Mac-7

http://www.wanttoknow.info/mind_control/foia_mind_control/19520709_140393_1.jpg

[Mac-7]

Was anyone ever prosecuted or convicted of these alleged crimes?

[Alyosha]

Was anyone ever prosecuted or convicted of these alleged crimes?

They are not alleged crimes, idiot. It's like saying that Ted Bundy allegedly murdered women. When a trial is over there is no longer the use of the word "alleged".

The "trial" was concluded by the Senate Judiciary and the agency was found guilty of human rights abuses, fined, and the projects were allegedly shut down. It was then in multiple cases sent to the US Supreme Court were they concluded in favor of the involuntary human subjects and awarded them cash settlements.


http://publicintelligence.net/ssci-mkultra-1977/

The findings are in there ^^

And if that is not enough our Supreme Court said:


concerned with "the research and development of chemical, biological, and radiological materials capable of employment in clandestine operations to control human behavior." The program consisted of some 149 subprojects which the Agency contracted out to various universities, research foundations, and similar institutions. At least 80 institutions and 185 private researchers participated. Because the Agency funded MKULTRA indirectly, many of the participating individuals were unaware that they were dealing with the Agency

and


The medical trials at Nuremberg in 1947 deeply impressed upon the world that experimentation with unknowing human subjects is morally and legally unacceptable. The United States Military Tribunal established the Nuremberg Code as a standard against which to judge German scientists who experimented with human subjects... . [I]n defiance of this principle, military intelligence officials ... began surreptitiously testing chemical and biological materials, including LSD.


No judicially crafted rule should insulate from liability the involuntary and unknowing human experimentation alleged to have occurred in this case. Indeed, as Justice Brennan observes, the United States played an instrumental role in the criminal prosecution of Nazi officials who experimented with human subjects during the Second World War, and the standards that the Nuremberg Military Tribunals developed to judge the behavior of the defendants stated that the 'voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential ... to satisfy moral, ethical, and legal concepts.' If this principle is violated, the very least that society can do is to see that the victims are compensated, as best they can be, by the perpetrators

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?q=471+U.S.+159&hl=en&as_sdt=2,33&case=16297847318525168348&scilh=0

^^That's the court case, clueless.

[Alyosha]

Mac-7

are you a fucking troll or do you not know how the Senate and Supreme Court system works? I've presented endless documentation and links which point to the findings of the Senate, actual documents recovered from the CIA, and the Supreme Court and you still act like either the world's biggest idiot and doofus or someone who does not care that his government drugged women, hypnotized them into having sex with people, and harmed children.

I show you a picture of a little kid in the program strapped down and fed LSD and you toss it off as "not that bad".

Seriously you're an inhuman jerk and if you think that's ok from America then you're also the enemy and an asshole.

[Mac-7]

From my original link











How much more do you want? I can keep picking them or you can go read them for yourself?

Hypnosis?

ok.

is this technique available only in the US?

it sounds like a trained spy could make B52 bomber pilots drop a bomb on New York if someone wanted them too.

And I bet the Russians are even better at this than we are.

what do you think?

[Mac-7]

@Mac-7 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1014)

I show you a picture of a little kid in the program strapped down and fed LSD and you toss it off as "not that bad"..

I saw a picture of a child that you claim was being tortured.

but all I see is a child in a hospital.

[Alyosha]

Hypnosis?

ok.

is this technique available only in the US?

it sounds like a trained spy could make B52 bomber pilots drop a bomb on New York if someone wanted them too.

And I bet the Russians are even better at this than we are.

what do you think?


You are a prick. I don't care what those countries do. Saudi Arabia lashes women for being raped. Is it okay if we do it?

It is inhuman and immoral. Do you not care that we hurt women? That we hurt children? Did you listen to those women describe what happened to them under the care of the agency? They were taken out of the foster care system and sexually assaulted!

Stop talking to me. You're just a monster if you can justify that with the "everybody else is doing it".

[Mac-7]

You are a $#@!. I don't care what those countries do.



You should care.

because those techniques are aimed against us.

This is the same as libs declaring we want nothing to do with biological warfare while our enemies proceed full speed ahead with their bio programs.

[Adelaide]

I have always been of the opinion that the US law enforcement agencies are bloated and inefficient - I posted elsewhere about the fairly streamlined approach to Canadian law enforcement (which includes our counter-terrorism and counter-espionage agencies or task forces). There are a massive amount of US law enforcement agencies with a sheer force that is astonishing, yet somehow they still manage to be inefficient and ineffective when it comes to handling modern domestic challenges. Then you have to worry about corruption and abuse of power.

Only been to the States a few times and was absolutely shocked by the heavy police presence. Even security guards appear to be better armed than my regional and provincial police. The number of law enforcement officers out was insane plus they're prepared for war more than law enforcement. Our RCMP (equal to your FBI, DEA, DHS - essentially most US federal law enforcement agencies) had to borrow weapons from civilians once during a shoot-out out west because they only had rifles and limited ammunition. They're better equipped now for instances like that, but still not to the scale of US law enforcement. They're meant to protect and serve us, not to terrorize us.

I have no problem believing when I hear of abuse by law enforcement or a complete disregard for civil liberties. I have no doubt it's widespread more than anyone probably knows. I also think it has been actively occurring for decades on different levels. I also know my country is slowly going to go down that road if we allow it. One successful lone wolf attack and we're readjusting legislation that would allow for more abuses against law-abiding citizens.

[Alyosha]

You should care.

because those techniques are aimed against us.

This is the same as libs declaring we want nothing to do with biological warfare while our enemies proceed full speed ahead with their bio programs.

What profits a man if he gains the whole world but loses his own soul? Thank you, but I'd rather be moral and not be the number one superpower than become immoral and turn away from God and humanity.

[Ethereal]

You should care.

because those techniques are aimed against us.

This is the same as libs declaring we want nothing to do with biological warfare while our enemies proceed full speed ahead with their bio programs.

ISIS is cutting people's heads off on video tape. According to your logic, we should do it, too.

[Mac-7]

ISIS is cutting people's heads off on video tape. According to your logic, we should do it, too.

We should make them die however possible.

And then bury them in the same hole with swine.

[Ethereal]

We should make them die however possible.

And then bury them in the same howl with swine.

Except we're talking about the treatment of Americans, not our enemies. According to your logic, it's okay to test such methods on our own people as long as the enemy is doing it.

[Mac-7]

Except we're talking about the treatment of Americans, not our enemies. According to your logic, it's okay to test such methods on our own people as long as the enemy is doing it.

These are your words:

"ISIS is cutting people's heads off on video tape. According to your logic, we should do it, too."

But if the topic is the CIA I agree that some of things alleged here are pretty bad.

however the CIA is not entirely bad as the usual suspects here claim.

[Alyosha]

These are your words:

"ISIS is cutting people's heads off on video tape. According to your logic, we should do it, too."

But if the topic is the CIA I agree that some of things alleged here are pretty bad.

however the CIA is not entirely bad as the usual suspected here claim.


They admitted to it, there is no "alleged" to it. Read the Congressional testimony. Also, they only admitted to it because they were caught by a janitor who read something he shouldn't have read and told someone at the FBI. When the CIA agents discovered a paper missing they started shredding which is why there are only 20,000 documents remaining. When the FBI got there they were in the middle of shredding files.

Moreover, former agents have testified before Congress that they never really stopped the program. When this happened (during Bill Clinton's term) the proceedings were stopped and 20 million dollars was put into a structured settlement for people who were victims.

This to me is classic acknowledgment.

So you can say they do some good, but when their overwhelming record is that of fucking up the stability of the Middle East, turning it from a western friendly secular place to a hotbed of religious extremists I don't see even their basic ability to do their jobs as being stellar, much less the truly evil, wicked, and despicable things they do to their own people.