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Bo-4
11-09-2014, 01:05 PM
But pay no mind ... think EBOLA & ISIS ---> far more dangerous! :rolleyes:

http://www.aol.com/article/2014/11/08/5th-teen-dies-following-washington-school-shooting/20990702/ (http://www.aol.com/article/2014/11/08/5th-teen-dies-following-washington-school-shooting/20990702/)



SEATTLE (AP) - Another of the teenagers wounded in a Washington state high school shooting has died, raising to five the number of fatalities after a student opened fire in the cafeteria two weeks ago. Andrew Fryberg, 15, died Friday evening at Harborview Medical Center in Seattle, a hospital spokeswoman said.

Polecat
11-09-2014, 01:07 PM
I agree. Public schools need to be abolished.

Cigar
11-09-2014, 01:11 PM
It's only News if it's a Chicago Shooting :tongue:

Alyosha
11-09-2014, 01:11 PM
I hate to mention this, but there are 340-360 million (including illegals) in the United States. There are only between 11,000 and 13,000 gun related homicides each year, less than 2% of those from registered firearms. That means you have less than a .083% chance of being killed by another person's gun in your lifetime. You have less of a chance of getting Ebola, for certain, but I see them the same.

Tragedies conflated for an agenda.

Cars have killed more people this century than war but because their "intended purpose" was benign we look the other way to the danger.

I feel bad that these people are dead, but unlike a careless driver mental health issues can be addressed and fixed if we as a nation were invested in mental health as we are our physical health.

exotix
11-09-2014, 01:13 PM
I agree. Public schools need to be abolished.
Abolish everything except guns.

Cigar
11-09-2014, 01:14 PM
Abolish everything except guns.

Freedom | Liberty

Peter1469
11-09-2014, 01:16 PM
I hate to mention this, but there are 340-360 million (including illegals) in the United States. There are only between 11,000 and 13,000 gun related homicides each year, less than 2% of those from registered firearms. That means you have less than a .083% chance of being killed by another person's gun in your lifetime. You have less of a chance of getting Ebola, for certain, but I see them the same.

Tragedies conflated for an agenda.

Cars have killed more people this century than war but because their "intended purpose" was benign we look the other way to the danger.

I feel bad that these people are dead, but unlike a careless driver mental health issues can be addressed and fixed if we as a nation were invested in mental health as we are our physical health.

And a large number of those gun related deaths are suicides. The left should support those.

Peter1469
11-09-2014, 01:16 PM
Abolish everything except guns.

It isn't possible, silly.

Polecat
11-09-2014, 01:18 PM
Abolish everything except guns.

Federal/state institutions of indoctrination can be contained. Guns can't.

Alyosha
11-09-2014, 01:24 PM
Freedom | Liberty

Can't have either without arms.

Cigar
11-09-2014, 01:25 PM
And a large number of those gun related deaths are suicides. The left should support those.

What? Mental Heath Care for those who can't afford it :smiley_ROFLMAO:

Cigar
11-09-2014, 01:26 PM
Can't have either without arms.

Bull Shit ... for more than 50 years I've handled any any all without the need of a Gun :grin:

Polecat
11-09-2014, 01:27 PM
What? Mental Heath Care for those who can't afford it :smiley_ROFLMAO:

We used to have that. ACLU shut it down.

Alyosha
11-09-2014, 01:27 PM
Bull Shit ... for more than 50 years I've handled any any all without the need of a Gun :grin:

You've fought against governments for 50 years? Amazing, Che.

Bo-4
11-09-2014, 01:28 PM
I hate to mention this, but there are 340-360 million (including illegals) in the United States. There are only between 11,000 and 13,000 gun related homicides each year, less than 2% of those from registered firearms. That means you have less than a .083% chance of being killed by another person's gun in your lifetime. You have less of a chance of getting Ebola, for certain, but I see them the same.

Tragedies conflated for an agenda.

Cars have killed more people this century than war but because their "intended purpose" was benign we look the other way to the danger.

I feel bad that these people are dead, but unlike a careless driver mental health issues can be addressed and fixed if we as a nation were invested in mental health as we are our physical health.

Okay, but did you know that gun deaths would exceed auto deaths by the end of this year or next? Know why? We took measures 20-30 years ago to make them and their drivers safer. Why can't we do the same with guns?

http://www.bloomberg.com/image/icucI_sYACFM.jpg

Cigar
11-09-2014, 01:31 PM
Okay, but did you know that gun deaths would exceed auto deaths by the end of this year or next? Know why? We took measures 20-30 years ago to make them and their drivers safer. Why can't we do the same with guns?

http://www.bloomberg.com/image/icucI_sYACFM.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSP-CcS7b4koXdNG0-RcBZdYc3Rh9zpK-tnB7zhFMe4mR9UMrVE I think that's going to leave a mark :laugh:

Cigar
11-09-2014, 01:34 PM
You've fought against governments for 50 years? Amazing, Che.

Real Men don't need Guns to solve their problems ... :grin: Do you have Problem?

http://www.jermilsadler.com/real_men_use_fists/DSC_0751_800.jpg

Polecat
11-09-2014, 01:36 PM
Real men use their intellect.

Alyosha
11-09-2014, 01:37 PM
Okay, but did you know that gun deaths would exceed auto deaths by the end of this year or next? Know why? We took measures 20-30 years ago to make them and their drivers safer. Why can't we do the same with guns?

Gun related deaths are on the rise because of areas like Chicago, not school shootings. They are on the rise not because of registered firearms which account for less than 2% of gun deaths, but because of the drug war, turf violations, and gang related activity where the guns come in from Mexico.

None of the ideas put forth by Democrats and the Bloombergs of the world will work to any degree worthy of removing a Constitutionally guaranteed right like the ownership of guns...which, by the way, was for the whole purpose of protecting ourselves from a tyrannical government (much like we are growing into).

You want to lower the rate of gun deaths in the US end the drug war.

You want to do something completely useless follow the Democratic plan which wouldn't have caught James Holmes or the Navy shooter, both of whom passed background checks, mental health screenings, etc. It wouldn't have even stopped Adam Lanza who used his mother's weapons.

It's no different than trying to stop drug use by attacking supply instead of attacking demand. It won't work. You will just create both a thriving black market for guns from normal people and drive people towards less safe homemade versions which cannot be traced.

$1,2000 Machine that Lets Anyone Make a Gun (http://www.wired.com/2014/10/cody-wilson-ghost-gunner/)


When Cody Wilson revealed the world’s first fully 3-D printed gun last year, he showed that the “maker” movement has enabled anyone to create a working, lethal firearm with a click in the privacy of his or her garage. Now he’s moved on to a new form of digital DIY gunsmithing. And this time the results aren’t made of plastic.

Wilson’s latest radically libertarian project is a PC-connected milling machine he calls the Ghost Gunner. Like any computer-numerically-controlled (or CNC) mill, the one-foot-cubed black box uses a drill bit mounted on a head that moves in three dimensions to automatically carve digitally-modeled shapes into polymer, wood or aluminum. But this CNC mill, sold by Wilson’s organization known as Defense Distributed for $1,200 (http://ghostgunner.net/), is designed to create one object in particular: the component of an AR-15 rifle known as its lower receiver.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5fhBBipU3w


So instead of throwing away good money after bad, why not attack it from the motivations? Why not try to create a more peaceful society by ending drug prohibition and promoting positive mental health programs?

Alyosha
11-09-2014, 01:38 PM
Real Men don't need Guns to solve their problems ... :grin: Do you have Problem?



When I'm discussing needing guns to fight street thugs we'll talk.

Cigar
11-09-2014, 01:40 PM
Real men use their intellect.

True ... That's why I hit first ... :laugh: then explain why they are now horizontal

http://zerofucksgivendotcom.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/frazier.jpg

Bo-4
11-09-2014, 01:44 PM
So instead of throwing away good money after bad, why not attack it from the motivations? Why not try to create a more peaceful society by ending drug prohibition and promoting positive mental health programs?

I've nothing against promoting positive mental health programs, and i 100% support ending the failed war on drugs. But i additionally see nothing wrong with keeping guns out of the hands of kooks and criminals or limiting them to x-number of bullets (8-10 would be fine). 3D plastic guns have a long way to go, and i doubt if they'll ever considered a weapon of choice for thugs.

Alyosha
11-09-2014, 01:47 PM
I stupidly just noticed it was a Bloomberg report and based on projected estimates not actuals, as well as, including suicide in it when we're discussing homicides. My suicide won't result in you or a class of school kids being dead with me unless I say "allllllaaaaahhhhuuuuu akbarrrrrr" and there's a bomb strapped to my stomach.

This is the actual for homicides

http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Graph.png
Bo-4 I said homicide for a reason. Car related deaths are all accidental. Suicide is death by your own hand (which accounts for the vast majority of gun related deaths at 80%) is a mental health issue that will result in another form of death if someone wants to take their own life.

I said you have less than a .083% chance of being shot. That's the stats. Why do you feel that a .083% chance is worthy of being considered a crisis large enough to remove Constitutionally protected rights? You have the same chance to win a lottery, do you play daily?

momsapplepie
11-09-2014, 01:52 PM
Gun laws don't work on Criminals.

Alyosha
11-09-2014, 01:54 PM
I've nothing against promoting positive mental health programs, and i 100% support ending the failed war on drugs. But i additionally see nothing wrong with keeping guns out of the hands of kooks and criminals or limiting them to x-number of bullets (8-10 would be fine). 3D plastic guns have a long way to go, and i doubt if they'll ever considered a weapon of choice for thugs.
Bo-4

since you're not an idiot like C--r I'll talk to you like an intelligent person and you do the same with me, ok?

Point 1: Limiting bullets...if you mean in a magazine, you can have multiple magazines. If you mean limiting bullet purchases, you don't understand how to reload bullets. In other words, you will just force people to use multiple magazines and reload their own bullets, as well as, purchase them from the black market.

Point 2: Background checks wouldn't have prevented James Holmes from owning a gun or the Navy shooter. It will just prevent a particular minority segment of the population from owning guns legally, and that will incite (rightly) cries of racism.

Point 3: You don't seem to understand the under 35 crowd or 3-D printing. They already have 3D metal printers and guns are made like this now by many companies in the US. The designs for those printers are already online and cost less than $1000 to make.

The millennials, especially the males of our little group, look up to Cody Wilson and the anti-government rebels. So instead of preventing gun ownership you will now inspire a whole group of people who didn't have them before to want them and make them.

I never had so many guns until Bloomberg pissed me off. I downloaded every defense distributed blue print (thousands) and handed them off to anyone and everyone.

Implement gun control and people will go around it. Fact. All that you will succeed in doing is creating a black market economy for them just like with drugs. 2.5 trillion dollars after the war on drugs was declared and over 80% of all Americans admit to having smoked pot and 1 in 3 high school students have done some sort of drug.

Bo-4
11-09-2014, 01:56 PM
Car related accidents are not "all accidental". There are thousands each year from kooks running into crowds of people or getting wasted and driving on the wrong side of the freeway. Very few folks get drunk by accident.

Mental health issues? Yes, lets deal with them, but let's also eliminate gun show purchases without a background check. Harris and Klebold got most of theirs via a straw buyer who was 18 at a gun show from unlicensed dealers.

Alyosha
11-09-2014, 02:01 PM
Car related accidents are not "all accidental". There are thousands each year from kooks running into crowds of people or getting wasted and driving on the wrong side of the freeway. Very few folks get drunk by accident.

I mean people don't say "I'm going to kill someone with this car today".




Mental health issues? Yes, lets deal with them, but let's also eliminate gun show purchases without a background check. Harris and Klebold got most of theirs via a straw buyer who was 18 at a gun show from unlicensed dealers.

If you have a straw buyer who isn't insane the background check does nothing. That's the point of having someone buy your weapon for you.

Do you see why it "feels good" but doesn't work? In my neighborhood of Detroit (3-1-3!!!) a car would pull up and people would buy guns from the trunk. No gun show, no background check. Fresh from Mexico where they were bought through straw purchases. Untraceable.

Now, how do you enforce --reality now, not theoretically-- the law? I could buy a gun at a gun show for 2 teens just like I can buy alcohol. I'd pass the background check. No one could stop me.

Alyosha
11-09-2014, 02:02 PM
Bo-4

btw, thank you for the intelligent and polite debate. It's so rare from our forum Democrats. They're either idiots or exotix.

Bo-4
11-09-2014, 02:03 PM
@Bo-4 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1297)

since you're not an idiot like C--r I'll talk to you like an intelligent person and you do the same with me, ok?

Point 1: Limiting bullets...if you mean in a magazine, you can have multiple magazines. If you mean limiting bullet purchases, you don't understand how to reload bullets. In other words, you will just force people to use multiple magazines and reload their own bullets, as well as, purchase them from the black market.

Point 2: Background checks wouldn't have prevented James Holmes from owning a gun or the Navy shooter. It will just prevent a particular minority segment of the population from owning guns legally, and that will incite (rightly) cries of racism.

Point 3: You don't seem to understand the under 35 crowd or 3-D printing. They already have 3D metal printers and guns are made like this now by many companies in the US. The designs for those printers are already online and cost less than $1000 to make.

The millennials, especially the males of our little group, look up to Cody Wilson and the anti-government rebels. So instead of preventing gun ownership you will now inspire a whole group of people who didn't have them before to want them and make them.

I never had so many guns until Bloomberg pissed me off. I downloaded every defense distributed blue print (thousands) and handed them off to anyone and everyone.

Implement gun control and people will go around it. Fact. All that you will succeed in doing is creating a black market economy for them just like with drugs. 2.5 trillion dollars after the war on drugs was declared and over 80% of all Americans admit to having smoked pot and 1 in 3 high school students have done some sort of drug.
Alyosha

Point one: There have been multiple cases of mass shooters who were thwarted when they went to reload.

Point two: There are also cases that WOULD have been prevented with background checks. My interest is not to prevent people from selling or gifting without such to friends or family members. But those who do so should be held responsible for any ultimate harm that weapon does upon another. PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY right?

Downloading and distributing blue prints for 3D weapons doesn't seem responsible, but maybe that's just me. ;-)

Bo-4
11-09-2014, 02:07 PM
I mean people don't say "I'm going to kill someone with this car today".

If you have a straw buyer who isn't insane the background check does nothing. That's the point of having someone buy your weapon for you.

Do you see why it "feels good" but doesn't work? In my neighborhood of Detroit (3-1-3!!!) a car would pull up and people would buy guns from the trunk. No gun show, no background check. Fresh from Mexico where they were bought through straw purchases. Untraceable.

Now, how do you enforce --reality now, not theoretically-- the law? I could buy a gun at a gun show for 2 teens just like I can buy alcohol. I'd pass the background check. No one could stop me.

Then we need harsher penalties for straw buyers.

Bo-4
11-09-2014, 02:08 PM
@Bo-4 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1297)

btw, thank you for the intelligent and polite debate. It's so rare from our forum Democrats. They're either idiots or exotix.

Ditto Aly, gotta run. You have a good one!

Alyosha
11-09-2014, 02:10 PM
@Alyosha (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=863)

Point one: There have been multiple cases of mass shooters who were thwarted when they went to reload.

There are very few mass shooters relative to time and population and the VA tech shooter, one of the most prolific, reloaded 8 times. Someone like Codename Section or Animal Mother could reload quickly. Then can also fabricate their own weapons and technically are far more dangerous than James Holmes.

Maybe they should require a license to live?

Just a thought.




Point two: There are also cases that WOULD have been prevented with background checks.

Such as?




My interest is not to prevent people from selling or gifting without such to friends or family members. But those who do so should be held responsible for any ultimate harm that weapon does upon another. PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY right?


And they will post-facto. The checks don't prevent gun deaths, they just punish after. Is that your point or is it to prevent them?

Given the rise of extremism in the world and the proliferation by ISIS of IED instructions you'd be better to worry about mental health and stress than guns.



Downloading and distributing blue prints for 3D weapons doesn't seem responsible, but maybe that's just me. ;-)

It's completely responsible of me. My government frightens the hell out of me. When we first came to the US there is no way a president could have gotten away with killing a 16 year old without a trial. There is no way that the government could have gotten away with spying on all of us without warrant. There is no way police would have been caught walking the streets looking like military members in Iraq.

I don't believe our government is a benign force anymore. It's controlled by a group of elites who have proven they are willing to start wars for resources and kill people to get what they want.

When the government fears the people there is peace, when the people fear the government there is tyranny.

Cigar
11-09-2014, 02:10 PM
Gun laws don't work on Criminals.

Then why are they in Jail? :laugh:

The Xl
11-09-2014, 02:13 PM
@Bo-4 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1297)

btw, thank you for the intelligent and polite debate. It's so rare from our forum Democrats. They're either idiots or exotix.

Redundant.

Cigar
11-09-2014, 02:20 PM
http://rummuser.com/wp-content/uploads/denial.jpg

Polecat
11-09-2014, 02:29 PM
Then we need harsher penalties for straw buyers.

The penalties we already have for straw deals are pretty severe. The trouble is much the same here as it is with the war on drugs. It is impossible to police this activity effectively. Gun show dealers are all licensed FFL dealers and are required to do business just like they would at their place of business. The laws are different for private sales and this is the only segment of gun show sales that could be in violation. And believe me they are looked out for. If you pop your trunk and start selling guns to anybody that comes along you will get arrested and charged. As a private seller you can only take a few guns into the show to try to sell to other attendees.

Polecat
11-09-2014, 02:30 PM
Then why are they in Jail? :laugh:

Drug laws most likely.

Alyosha
11-09-2014, 02:31 PM
Then why are they in Jail? :laugh:

Derp, most aren't.

Bo-4
11-09-2014, 04:29 PM
It's completely responsible of me. My government frightens the hell out of me. When we first came to the US there is no way a president could have gotten away with killing a 16 year old without a trial. There is no way that the government could have gotten away with spying on all of us without warrant. There is no way police would have been caught walking the streets looking like military members in Iraq.

I don't believe our government is a benign force anymore. It's controlled by a group of elites who have proven they are willing to start wars for resources and kill people to get what they want.

When the government fears the people there is peace, when the people fear the government there is tyranny.

The idea that even a mega armed-to-the-teeth citizenry with 3D (or any other) guns could take on the might of the US military has always struck me as silly.

That is, unless they have armed drones, Abrams tanks and F-14s.

Bo-4
11-09-2014, 04:36 PM
The penalties we already have for straw deals are pretty severe. The trouble is much the same here as it is with the war on drugs. It is impossible to police this activity effectively. Gun show dealers are all licensed FFL dealers and are required to do business just like they would at their place of business. The laws are different for private sales and this is the only segment of gun show sales that could be in violation. And believe me they are looked out for. If you pop your trunk and start selling guns to anybody that comes along you will get arrested and charged. As a private seller you can only take a few guns into the show to try to sell to other attendees.

Well, the 18 year old chick that straw-bought from unlicensed dealers at a gun show for Harris and Klebold wasn't charged with a damned thing.

She skated, and witnesses said that the threesome went booth to booth asking each if they were licensed. It the answer was yes they moved on, and it was clear to all that SHE was NOT the buyer. Eric and Dylan were the ones handling and asking all the questions.

Generally, if someone is caught selling this crap out of their trunk ... it is NOT a felony. It NEEDS to be in ALL cases!

Polecat
11-09-2014, 04:38 PM
The idea that even a mega armed-to-the-teeth citizenry with 3D (or any other) guns could take on the might of the US military has always struck me as silly.

That is, unless they have armed drones, Abrams tanks and F-14s.

I'd like to think that in the event of total bedlam our military (at least part of it anyway) would be fighting along side the citizens.

Bo-4
11-09-2014, 04:48 PM
I'd like to think that in the event of total bedlam our military (at least part of it anyway) would be fighting along side the citizens.

I know cat, and this is ALWAYS one of the responses you get to such a scenario. The vast majority of our military hierarchy would support their country and its government.

And THEY are the ones who control this sort of weaponry. Might you get a few who go rogue? Sure, and they'd be stomped in a matter of minutes if not hours.

Please don't encourage a second civil war. The first was ugly enough.

Polecat
11-09-2014, 04:48 PM
Well, the 18 year old chick that straw-bought from unlicensed dealers at a gun show for Harris and Klebold wasn't charged with a $#@!ed thing.

She skated, and witnesses said that the threesome went booth to booth asking each if they were licensed. It the answer was yes they moved on, and it was clear to all that SHE was NOT the buyer. Eric and Dylan were the ones handling and asking all the questions.

Generally, if someone is caught selling this crap out of their trunk ... it is NOT a felony. It NEEDS to be.

The gun shows here don't allow non FLL dealers to set up tables and sell guns. Private sales are governed only by the restriction that you may not knowingly sell to someone that is not allowed to have a firearm. There is no stipulation that you make any attempt to verify that a stranger is legal. This girl clearly had advance knowledge that it was an illegal transaction and could have been prosecuted. Why she wasn't makes no sense.

PolWatch
11-09-2014, 04:54 PM
my sympathy to the families & the community. another wasted life...

Bo-4
11-09-2014, 05:19 PM
The gun shows here don't allow non FLL dealers to set up tables and sell guns. Private sales are governed only by the restriction that you may not knowingly sell to someone that is not allowed to have a firearm. There is no stipulation that you make any attempt to verify that a stranger is legal. This girl clearly had advance knowledge that it was an illegal transaction and could have been prosecuted. Why she wasn't makes no sense.

Because at the time, their were no TEETH in CO law. NOW there is thanks to Hickenlooper and a Dem legislature. Yet that the Senate side has turned red, it will likely be overturned and we'll see more stupidity and violence.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/thespot/2014/11/08/colorado-state-senate-majority/115049/

*Poster's note: I'm a gun owner with a S&W 6-shooter for home protection. I BELIEVE in the 2nd amendment, yet don't believe anyone is trying to "grab my gun". I'd simply like a few smart reforms (as do most NRA members might i say). STOP letting Mr. LaLaLaPierre dictate your entire existence. I'm not an NRA member. Know why? Because they no longer represent individual sportsmen & home protection interests .. they represent MANUFACTURERS and don't give a HOLY CRAP where or to whom guns are sold.

---> WAKE UP!!

Bo-4
11-09-2014, 05:26 PM
my sympathy to the families & the community. another wasted life...

Thanks man, that IS the bottom line. Another kid senselessly killed in a fucking high school cafeteria.

The saddest part is that he sent them all a text inviting them to lunch and that they ignored his previous disturbing FB posts and tweets.

These kids need to wake the fuck up think?

Alyosha
11-09-2014, 05:55 PM
I know cat, and this is ALWAYS one of the responses you get to such a scenario. The vast majority of our military hierarchy would support their country and its government.

Maybe 15 years ago, but not now. There is a reason DHS put them on a watch list as potential terror threats. Ask any of the service members on here how happy they are with government.

This government has pulled 20,000 marines and other vets off the street for remarks made in social media and threw them in psych words for 90 days. The fact that you haven't heard about this is a clear sign that the media decides that you don't need to know it, yet another reason why veterans aren't the happiest with the government now. Currently, the Rutherford Institute (https://www.rutherford.org/publications_resources/on_the_front_lines/rutherford_institute_attorneys_file_civil_rights_l awsuit_over_wrongful_arre) is suing the government on their behalf.

You can't piss off people with combat experience by kidnapping them or hurting their friends. They don't like it and they don't forget.





And THEY are the ones who control this sort of weaponry. Might you get a few who go rogue? Sure, and they'd be stomped in a matter of minutes if not hours.


Ask any marine on this forum what the USMC is like now. As one put it libertarianism has spread through the Marine Corps like small pox.
Ethereal Cthulhu Codename Section Terminal Lance Animal Mother KaseyJones The Wash Gunny

what would you do if the government turned on the citizens?


Please don't encourage a second civil war. The first was ugly enough.

Do you also write the government and tell it to quit encouraging a second civil war with its warrentless spying, its drone killing of Americans without due process, it's militarized police, it's 20,000 no knock raids?

Alyosha
11-09-2014, 05:57 PM
The idea that even a mega armed-to-the-teeth citizenry with 3D (or any other) guns could take on the might of the US military has always struck me as silly.

That is, unless they have armed drones, Abrams tanks and F-14s.

We had all of those overseas and AQ was kicking ass and taking names. Asymmetric warfare is tough to beat and our veterans know how to do the same, make improvised explosive devices, and they have weapons.

Even the Soviets gave up when it came down to the military shooting civilians. They don't have the will to kill their countrymen.

Ethereal
11-09-2014, 05:59 PM
Maybe 15 years ago, but not now. There is a reason DHS put them on a watch list as potential terror threats. Ask any of the service members on here how happy they are with government.

This government has pulled 20,000 marines and other vets off the street for remarks made in social media and threw them in psych words for 90 days. The fact that you haven't heard about this is a clear sign that the media decides that you don't need to know it, yet another reason why veterans aren't the happiest with the government now. Currently, the Rutherford Institute (https://www.rutherford.org/publications_resources/on_the_front_lines/rutherford_institute_attorneys_file_civil_rights_l awsuit_over_wrongful_arre) is suing the government on their behalf.

You can't piss off people with combat experience by kidnapping them or hurting their friends. They don't like it and they don't forget.



Ask any marine on this forum what the USMC is like now. As one put it libertarianism has spread through the Marine Corps like small pox.
Ethereal Cthulhu Codename Section Terminal Lance Animal Mother KaseyJones The Wash Gunny

what would you do if the government turned on the citizens?



Do you also write the government and tell it to quit encouraging a second civil war with its warrentless spying, its drone killing of Americans without due process, it's militarized police, it's 20,000 no knock raids?

I'd throw poop at them.

Alyosha
11-09-2014, 06:01 PM
Because at the time, their were no TEETH in CO law. NOW there is thanks to Hickenlooper and a Dem legislature. Yet that the Senate side has turned red, it will likely be overturned and we'll see more stupidity and violence.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/thespot/2014/11/08/colorado-state-senate-majority/115049/

*Poster's note: I'm a gun owner with a S&W 6-shooter for home protection. I BELIEVE in the 2nd amendment, yet don't believe anyone is trying to "grab my gun". I'd simply like a few smart reforms (as do most NRA members might i say). STOP letting Mr. LaLaLaPierre dictate your entire existence. I'm not an NRA member. Know why? Because they no longer represent individual sportsmen & home protection interests .. they represent MANUFACTURERS and don't give a HOLY CRAP where or to whom guns are sold.

---> WAKE UP!!


There is no teeth to any law. It's all in enforcement not the rules and unless you wish to violate the civil liberties of every American by spying on them in their homes, by using the Sneak and Peek provision the Patriot Act you won't be able to catch straw buyers or private sales.

You can write hundreds of thousands of laws, and we have, but we can't enforce them.

Mini Me
11-09-2014, 07:08 PM
I hate to mention this, but there are 340-360 million (including illegals) in the United States. There are only between 11,000 and 13,000 gun related homicides each year, less than 2% of those from registered firearms. That means you have less than a .083% chance of being killed by another person's gun in your lifetime. You have less of a chance of getting Ebola, for certain, but I see them the same.

Tragedies conflated for an agenda.

Cars have killed more people this century than war but because their "intended purpose" was benign we look the other way to the danger.

I feel bad that these people are dead, but unlike a careless driver mental health issues can be addressed and fixed if we as a nation were invested in mental health as we are our physical health.

:wink: My bumper sticker says; "Support mental health or I'll kill you!"

Alyosha
11-09-2014, 07:30 PM
:wink: My bumper sticker says; "Support mental health or I'll kill you!"

I'll send you money and you can send me one.

Mini Me
11-09-2014, 08:04 PM
I'll send you money and you can send me one.

I'll work pro bono for you!

You are one of the few conservatives here who makes sense!

Alyosha
11-09-2014, 08:08 PM
I'll work pro bono for you!

You are one of the few conservatives here who makes sense!

Heehee. Why do you say I'm a conservative? I am an anarchist, actually. :)

Codename Section
11-10-2014, 11:35 AM
Meant to post earlier, Alyosha

The United States Marine Corps is very libertarian, very Constitutionalist, very much pissed off at our current government and we like each other better than we like "them". If the government told marines to turn their guns on citizens you'd see a revolution. The one or two assholes who would get off on that wouldn't do shit because the majority of his brothers would not and he'd go along with the majority.

My division must have kept Ron Paul's book on the best sellers list because every enlisted person I met was a Ron Paul fanatic. It's not like people in the marines didn't speculate weekly on what they'd do "if".

The government knows this and I kinda think its another reason police are getting "militarized".

Bo-4
11-10-2014, 11:38 AM
Meant to post earlier, @Alyosha (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=863)

The United States Marine Corps is very libertarian, very Constitutionalist, very much pissed off at our current government and we like each other better than we like "them". If the government told marines to turn their guns on citizens you'd see a revolution. The one or two assholes who would get off on that wouldn't do shit because the majority of his brothers would not and he'd go along with the majority.

My division must have kept Ron Paul's book on the best sellers list because every enlisted person I met was a Ron Paul fanatic. It's not like people in the marines didn't speculate weekly on what they'd do "if".

The government knows this and I kinda think its another reason police are getting "militarized".

Do you honestly think the government would tell marines to turn their guns on citizens --- REALLY?

momsapplepie
11-10-2014, 11:40 AM
under obambi? No doubt in my mind he would turn the military loose on US citizens.

Codename Section
11-10-2014, 11:41 AM
Do you honestly think the government would tell marines to turn their guns on citizens --- REALLY?

Yes. They're already conditioning people to accept it.

http://www.cato.org/raidmap


http://atlantafreespeech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/swat_no_knock1-e1402584927817.jpg


Why do you think some of our targets in practice galleries are of civilians?

Codename Section
11-10-2014, 11:42 AM
Do I think it will happen this year or next year? No. Do I think they're preparing for a "just in case"? Yes.

momsapplepie
11-10-2014, 11:44 AM
They can start with ferguson.

Codename Section
11-10-2014, 11:46 AM
They can start with ferguson.

When crime rates in the US have gone down, it's hard to justify military gear for police UNLESS you are conditioning people to accept it which is exactly what they're doing.

When you look at what we've done to people across the globe, dropping hellfires on villages in countries we're not even at war with why do we believe these same people are too "good" or "benign" to hurt us?

Alyosha
11-10-2014, 11:51 AM
All governments go bad. All of them. We kept allowing more and more centralization of power, obscurring the Constitution and it came under the guise of greater good and helping people, made it easier to accept until now the FBI has autonomy over the whole country.

The Constitution ONLY allows the federal government the right to prosecute treason, maritime issues, etc. Never criminal law. Now it can declare anyone a criminal and assert authority.

Why? We accepted it.

Because "Jim Crow". Why are we letting the government enforce drug laws with no knock warrants? Jim Crow. Why are we letting the government come in and seize people's homes over ground water? Jim Crow. Why can the federal government now take everything you own if you're suspected of maybe having pot plants somewhere on your property? Jim Crow.

Evil never comes out and uses evil reasons, never reveals it's hand, it's always under the guise of doing something good.

Peter1469
11-10-2014, 12:35 PM
Citizens should not permit the federal government to act outside of these limits.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts (http://www.usconstitution.net/glossary.html#IMPOST) and Excises (http://www.usconstitution.net/glossary.html#EXCISE), to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence (http://www.usconstitution.net/constmiss.html) and general Welfare (http://www.usconstitution.net/glossary.html#WELFARE) of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts (http://www.usconstitution.net/glossary.html#IMPOST) and Excises (http://www.usconstitution.net/glossary.html#EXCISE) shall be uniform throughout the United States;


To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads (http://www.usconstitution.net/glossary.html#POSTROAD);

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque (http://www.usconstitution.net/glossary.html#MARQUE) and Reprisal (http://www.usconstitution.net/glossary.html#REPRISAL), and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;

And To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Cthulhu
11-10-2014, 05:24 PM
The idea that even a mega armed-to-the-teeth citizenry with 3D (or any other) guns could take on the might of the US military has always struck me as silly.

That is, unless they have armed drones, Abrams tanks and F-14s.
35 bucks can annihilate an Abrams tank. Propane canister that is full, and some copper plating, and a will to kill is all that is needed.

Seriously, it doesn't require a soviet division to stand up against the military.

Without boots on the ground you do not control anything.


Sent from my evil cell phone.

Cthulhu
11-10-2014, 05:57 PM
Maybe 15 years ago, but not now. There is a reason DHS put them on a watch list as potential terror threats. Ask any of the service members on here how happy they are with government.

This government has pulled 20,000 marines and other vets off the street for remarks made in social media and threw them in psych words for 90 days. The fact that you haven't heard about this is a clear sign that the media decides that you don't need to know it, yet another reason why veterans aren't the happiest with the government now. Currently, the Rutherford Institute (https://www.rutherford.org/publications_resources/on_the_front_lines/rutherford_institute_attorneys_file_civil_rights_l awsuit_over_wrongful_arre) is suing the government on their behalf.

You can't piss off people with combat experience by kidnapping them or hurting their friends. They don't like it and they don't forget.



Ask any marine on this forum what the USMC is like now.


As one put it libertarianism has spread through the Marine Corps like small pox.

I should copyright that mojo.



Ethereal Cthulhu Codename Section Terminal Lance Animal Mother KaseyJones The Wash Gunny

what would you do if the government turned on the citizens?

I believe I would indulge in some light reading.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/10/fe8caad94d44e39e3b8a411dc8d64b47.jpg

Strictly to pass the time of course. Only crazy people dislike the government ya know. :rolleyes:



Sent from my evil cell phone.

Cthulhu
11-10-2014, 06:00 PM
Do you honestly think the government would tell marines to turn their guns on citizens --- REALLY?
If they are willing to inter Japanese Americans in WW II into camps solely because they are Japanese at gun point. I see no reason why not.


Sent from my evil cell phone.

Cthulhu
11-10-2014, 06:02 PM
Yes. They're already conditioning people to accept it.

http://www.cato.org/raidmap


http://atlantafreespeech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/swat_no_knock1-e1402584927817.jpg


Why do you think some of our targets in practice galleries are of civilians?
Dude that brand of "no hesitation" targets has me pissed beyond words. Targets of kids, elderly, pregnant women and such...

Smart, but damn evil.


Sent from my evil cell phone.

Codename Section
11-10-2014, 06:34 PM
Brother, how are you man?

Cthulhu
11-10-2014, 06:49 PM
Brother, how are you man?

Enduring menstration.

And learning about hydroponics and cows.

You?


Sent from my evil cell phone.

Matty
11-10-2014, 06:51 PM
Lovely!

Bo-4
11-10-2014, 07:00 PM
This government has pulled 20,000 marines and other vets off the street for remarks made in social media and threw them in psych words for 90 days

Need links, not buying.

Matty
11-10-2014, 07:02 PM
Tough shit! Innit?

GrassrootsConservative
11-10-2014, 07:08 PM
Another shooting in a BLUE STATE.

Blackrook
11-11-2014, 02:18 AM
Historically, the vast majority of gun-related murders have been carried out by governments with guns, not private individuals with guns.

BB-35
11-11-2014, 01:13 PM
Abolish everything except guns.
Maybe we need to abolish your naivite'

Bob
11-11-2014, 01:26 PM
But pay no mind ... think EBOLA & ISIS ---> far more dangerous! :rolleyes:

http://www.aol.com/article/2014/11/08/5th-teen-dies-following-washington-school-shooting/20990702/ (http://www.aol.com/article/2014/11/08/5th-teen-dies-following-washington-school-shooting/20990702/)


SEATTLE (AP) - Another of the teenagers wounded in a Washington state high school shooting has died, raising to five the number of fatalities after a student opened fire in the cafeteria two weeks ago. Andrew Fryberg, 15, died Friday evening at Harborview Medical Center in Seattle, a hospital spokeswoman said.


He was told he had to show up for shots.

In his haste, he thought he had to bring to school the means to give students shots.