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Captain Obvious
11-11-2014, 02:50 PM
@Cigar (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=294) always asks these questions, so here are the numbers.We had an ops committee meeting today to approve our health insurance rate increases/changes.

So, since Cigar asks this question all the time, here's the exact answer.Figures are two years ago (first number), new number two years later (second number) - for family level coverage (note the % increase is for a two-year period):

Co-pay: $3,500 to $6,000 (71.4% increase)
Deductable: $800 to $2,000 (150% increase)

These figures are 1-year, from last year (I didn't have the prior year info handy):

Payroll deduction (how much I pay per bi-weekly payroll): $112.29 to $126.30 (12.5% increase)
Office visits: $15 to $20 (33.3% increase)
ER co-pay: $100 to $150 (50% increase)

Similar or greater increases are expected next year also, our plan is to "feather in" the effect that the ACA is having on employer provided plans.Businesses all around us are doing the same thing, many are thinning their staff in order to make up for the increased costs.

This is your O'bamacare in action, these are real numbers, the real story.

Captain Obvious
11-11-2014, 02:52 PM
Can a mod at his/her pleasure fix that from "ACE" to "ACA" please?

Thankyou

The Xl
11-11-2014, 02:53 PM
Obamacare was a fucked up bill that helped some at the expense of others. It was structured this was intentionally, so that some would support it and fight for it not to be repealed.

Healthcare needed an overhaul, but one that raped the middle class at the expense of the poor was bullshit.

Captain Obvious
11-11-2014, 02:53 PM
Obamacare was a fucked up bill that helped some at the expense of others. It was structured this was intentionally, so that some would support it and fight for it not to be repealed.

Healthcare needed an overhaul, but one that raped the middle class at the expense of the poor was bullshit.

We're not unusual, this is what many employers are seeing.

Here's the thing, people are losing coverage - just like this. I don't think most of them understand that.

Cigar
11-11-2014, 02:54 PM
@Cigar (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=294) always asks these questions, so here are the numbers.

We had an ops committee meeting today to approve our health insurance rate increases/changes. So, since Cigar asks this question all the time, here's the exact answer.

Figures are two years ago (first number), new number two years later (second number) - for family level coverage (note the % increase is for a two-year period):

Co-pay: $3,500 to $6,000 (71.4% increase)
Deductable: $800 to $2,000 (150% increase)

These figures are 1-year, from last year (I didn't have the prior year info handy):

Payroll deduction (how much I pay per bi-weekly payroll): $112.29 to $126.30 (12.5% increase)
Office visits: $15 to $20 (33.3% increase)
ER co-pay: $100 to $150 (50% increase)

Similar or greater increases are expected next year also, our plan is to "feather in" the effect that the ACA is having on employer provided plans.

Businesses all around us are doing the same thing, many are thinning their staff in order to make up for the increased costs.

This is your O'bamacare in action, these are real numbers, the real story.

Good thing you have The Freedom & Liberty to Choose another Health Care Provider ... do some research and get off the Forum

momsapplepie
11-11-2014, 02:55 PM
Of course people are the losers, all the way around.

Captain Obvious
11-11-2014, 02:55 PM
Good think you have The Freedom & Liberty to Choose another Health Care Provider ... do some research and get off the Forum

I did actually, our plan is generous compared to alternatives.

Cigar
11-11-2014, 02:56 PM
Of course people are the losers, all the way around.

Don't be so hard on yourself

momsapplepie
11-11-2014, 02:58 PM
I'm not being hard on myself, I'm being hard on the idiot that decided to screw the American people with a healthcare Ponzi scheme that is bound to fail.

Captain Obvious
11-11-2014, 02:58 PM
I did actually, our plan is generous compared to alternatives.

And, I'm assuming so has our employees.

I am not aware of anyone declining our plan coverage and opting for exchange or alternative coverage.

Some people are on their spouses plan but typically it's the other way around - our employees spouses are on our plan.

Blackrook
11-11-2014, 03:06 PM
Cigar is immune to all facts. They roll off him like water rolls off a duck's back.

Cigar
11-11-2014, 03:09 PM
@Cigar (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=294) is immune to all facts. They roll off him like water rolls off a duck's back.

Exactly ... Millions of my American Citizen can now get Health Care ...

That's a Game Changer ... and it really pisses you off.

... and I'm just fine with you being pissed off over Americans Needlessly Dying :grin:

The Xl
11-11-2014, 03:12 PM
Exactly ... Millions of my American Citizen can now get Health Care ...

That's a Game Changer ... and it really pisses you off.

... and I'm just fine with you being pissed off over Americans Needlessly Dying :grin:

That's great but people who previously had healthcare have lost it and had their costs go up.

Cigar
11-11-2014, 03:17 PM
That's great but people who previously had healthcare have lost it and had their costs go up.

Happens all the time in the Insurance Industry

I can't get my State Farm Insurance in Pembroke Pine Florida because of past Hurricanes ... I wasn't able to keep my Insurance.

GTFOI

Dr. Who
11-11-2014, 03:17 PM
Can a mod at his/her pleasure fix that from "ACE" to "ACA" please?

Thankyou
Done.

The Xl
11-11-2014, 03:20 PM
Happens all the time in the Insurance Industry

I can't get my State Farm Insurance in Pembroke Pine Florida because of past Hurricanes ... I wasn't able to keep my Insurance.

GTFOI

I'm speaking of the ones who have had these issues directly due to the bill. You know this.

Cigar
11-11-2014, 03:23 PM
I'm speaking of the ones who have had these issues directly due to the bill. You know this.

If Government had a "choice" they would ahve protected you from that.

But YOU wanted Freedom and so did the Insurance Companies.

Well .. enjoy your Freedom and Liberty

PolWatch
11-11-2014, 03:23 PM
before anyone starts screaming, let me say that I don't think the ACA is wonderful...no plan that is created by one group and forced on the other has much of a chance of being good.

that said...why did this happen? How many years have we heard people complaining about rising health care costs, insurance costs, etc? It has been much longer than 8 years. Remember the Clinton plan for health care reform? The one that was completely routed and the repub majority told us they had a plan that would soon be revealed. How long ago was that? How many times has the subject of health care reform come up and we received more than empty promises? How many times did the repub party drop the ball? The best they provided was Medicare Plan D...better than nothing but doesn't help anyone under 65.

I seem to recall a major part of the last election involved health care reform. For some reason, people seemed to believe the dems more than the repubs....the result is what we are dealing with today.

In spite of a lot of noise, I have read a lot of information about repubs quietly planning to reform the ACA...they may yell about repeal, but they seem to think that train has left the station. Maybe they will all sit down and work together...I doubt it...but who knows...

Cigar
11-11-2014, 03:26 PM
before anyone starts screaming, let me say that I don't think the ACA is wonderful...no plan that is created by one group and forced on the other has much of a chance of being good.

that said...why did this happen? How many years have we heard people complaining about rising health care costs, insurance costs, etc? It has been much longer than 8 years. Remember the Clinton plan for health care reform? The one that was completely routed and the repub majority told us they had a plan that would soon be revealed. How long ago was that? How many times has the subject of health care reform come up and we received more than empty promises? How many times did the repub party drop the ball? The best they provided was Medicare Plan D...better than nothing but doesn't help anyone under 65.

I seem to recall a major part of the last election involved health care reform. For some reason, people seemed to believe the dems more than the repubs....the result is what we are dealing with today.

In spite of a lot of noise, I have read a lot of information about repubs quietly planning to reform the ACA...they may yell about repeal, but they seem to think that train has left the station. Maybe they will all sit down and work together...I doubt it...but who knows...

Those Plans are how we have a Military

anything other than repeal would cause the GOP to actually Govern

texan
11-11-2014, 03:54 PM
Can a mod at his/her pleasure fix that from "ACE" to "ACA" please?

Thankyou


Better yet, can a Mod fix the ACA?

texan
11-11-2014, 03:55 PM
I wish Cigar and is people would just admit everyone was lied to, i mean hell the party is on video saying we were lied to what more do they need to admit wrong doing?

exotix
11-11-2014, 03:56 PM
Good thing you have The Freedom & Liberty to Choose another Health Care Provider ... do some research and get off the Forum
http://s8.tinypic.com/29fox3m_th.jpg

texan
11-11-2014, 03:59 PM
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Cigarhttp://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=833817#post833817)Good thing you have The Freedom & Liberty to Choose another Health Care Provider ... do some research and get off the Forum
http://s8.tinypic.com/29fox3m_th.jpg


Yeah that would be cheaper outside your company, are you DA? I wish you 2 had a mirror so you could see yourselves.

Polecat
11-11-2014, 04:27 PM
My doc said business is booming. He didn't say why exactly but he did say it had to do with ACA people needing to get a PCP.

texan
11-11-2014, 04:36 PM
I believe it............Hope we have enough of those "doc's." You can't get into mine witjout a months notice.

Cigar
11-11-2014, 04:44 PM
I wish Cigar and is people would just admit everyone was lied to, i mean hell the party is on video saying we were lied to what more do they need to admit wrong doing?

Right after you and your people admit to we were lied to in 2003.

If the Lie you are talking about is the silly out-of-context "you can keep your doctor" then stop playing silly games.

Did a Insurance Company tell you what Doctor YOU can see? No, they changed Doctors they cover, you are free to leave that Insurance Company who dropped coverage for that Doctor and choose one that does.

GTFOI

Cigar
11-11-2014, 04:46 PM
I believe it............Hope we have enough of those "doc's." You can't get into mine witjout a months notice.

Change your Doctor ... that's what I did, after I moved further away from my primary.

Your current Doctor isn't the only Doctor on Planet Earth who can see you.

Don't be a baby :rollseyes:

Polecat
11-11-2014, 04:59 PM
I believe it............Hope we have enough of those "doc's." You can't get into mine witjout a months notice.

I'm wondering where all these folks are coming up with the money. Initial visits are expensive and no insurance covers that anymore. Our deductible is $7500 so we essentially pay out of pocket for everything until I fall off the roof and run up a hospital bill of around $170K. We had to pay 20% of that and our insurance company payed a substantially smaller amount then 80% of 170K. It smacks of rip off. We got billed for speech therapy because they sent a therapist around every other day while I was in there to see if I could communicate effectively while bombed out of my skull on morphine and oxy. My speech cleared up just fine when I came back to earth. In fact I invented several new cuss words to commemorate the event.

texan
11-11-2014, 05:06 PM
Change your Doctor ... that's what I did, after I moved further away from my primary.

Your current Doctor isn't the only Doctor on Planet Earth who can see you.

Don't be a baby :rollseyes:


I don't think its being a baby to point out a liar. I do think its babish not to admit you were wrong and we were lied to by DESIGN according to the people that sold the program.

texan
11-11-2014, 05:08 PM
http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/.a/6a00d834515c5469e2019b00f1a7a0970b-500wi (http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/.a/6a00d834515c5469e2019b00f1a7a0970b-pi)

texan
11-11-2014, 05:11 PM
Obama gets three more Pinocchios from Washington PostAs reported here, the Washington Post recently awarded Barack Obama Four Pinnochios (http://patriotpost.us/posts/21340) for his lie: "If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period." Last week, the White House received three more Pinocchios (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2013/11/07/the-white-house-effort-to-blame-insurance-companies-for-lost-plans/) for blaming insurers for millions of health plan cancelation notices.



What more do you ass covering droids need a mack truck to hit you?

midcan5
11-11-2014, 05:28 PM
OK since reality exists only for us personally, our healthcare costs have been stable and have stayed stable. Thus all is right with the world. My sense of the usual right wing whining is that is all they can do and all they do. No one I know has the story that opened this crying thread. One wonders what world righties and other Obamaphobes live in? Either healthcare coverage was cheap because it covered nothing, or the story is exaggerated nonsense.

7.5 % according to this piece.

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/214847-average-premium-under-obamacare-to-rise-75-percent

Polecat
11-11-2014, 05:32 PM
OK since reality exists only for us personally, our healthcare costs have been stable and have stayed stable. Thus all is right with the world. My sense of the usual right wing whining is that is all they can do and all they do. No one I know has the story that opened this crying thread. One wonders what world righties and other Obamaphobes live in? Either healthcare coverage was cheap because it covered nothing, or the story is exaggerated nonsense.

7.5 % according to this piece.

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/214847-average-premium-under-obamacare-to-rise-75-percent

Not sure who is picking up your tab but most of us have seen our coverage erode to almost nothing over the last 20 years. Yeah. It was a problem long before Obama took his dump on it too. Insurance is institutionalized fraud.

Captain Obvious
11-11-2014, 05:39 PM
My doc said business is booming. He didn't say why exactly but he did say it had to do with ACA people needing to get a PCP.

Patients who didn't qualify for Medicaid coverage took their primary care to the ER and just didn't pay for it.

Now that Medicaid is expanded, these people are signing up and moving their business from the ER to the docs offices where it belongs.

ER visits are down across the region also, doc office visits are up.

Cigar
11-11-2014, 05:43 PM
Glenn Beck Reveals Serious Health Problems (http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/glenn-beck-reveals-serious-health-problems_b245568)http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/files/2014/11/BeckHealth2.jpg

On TheBlaze this evening, Glenn Beck (http://www.mediabistro.com/Glenn-Beck-profile.html) revealed he has been battling a serious neurological illness that even the best medical professionals couldn’t quite diagnose. Beck says doctors told him he had 5-10 years, after which he would not be able to function. He started having seizures.
“My hands, feet, arms and legs feel like someone had just crushed them, or pushed broken glass into my feet,” Beck says about the intense bouts of pain. “The doctors tell me I haven’t had REM sleep in as much as a decade.”


Beck says he has dealt with the pain for years. “While I was at Fox the pain would get so bad that the crew worked out hand signals so they would know when to take the camera off of me.” Beck says doctors looked for adrenal fatigue and macular dystrophy. He also had vocal chord issues. “We even looked into whether someone was poisoning me,” he says. “We moved to a warmer climate. Yes, this is one of the reasons we moved to Dallas.”

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/files/2014/11/BeckHealth.jpg

“My doctors thought if I stayed in New York City, I wouldn’t be alive today.”


Still, the symptoms persisted. “Most afternoons my hands will start to shake, or my hands and feet will curl up. When it gets real bad, my friends try to uncurl me.”
“I was told by doctors to take a year off. This is the network you built,” he told his audience in the often tearful 40-minute revelation. “That would not happen.”

Beck turned a corner this summer. He says with hormone therapy, a brain research center which happens to be 3 minutes away from his Dallas studio, and, most importantly, his faith in God, he has “a clean bill of health.”


“My brain is back on line in a big way,” he says. Beck took a TBI (traumatic brain injury) test at the end of the summer and scored 90% capacity. When he’d taken the test last year, he was in the bottom 10%.


http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/files/2014/11/Beckhealth4.jpg

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/glenn-beck-reveals-serious-health-problems_b245568

Best Wishes Mr. Beck ...

Thank God more that 10 Million American now have "Access and Opportunity" with The ACA ... Just Like You!

Captain Obvious
11-11-2014, 05:45 PM
OK since reality exists only for us personally, our healthcare costs have been stable and have stayed stable. Thus all is right with the world. My sense of the usual right wing whining is that is all they can do and all they do. No one I know has the story that opened this crying thread. One wonders what world righties and other Obamaphobes live in? Either healthcare coverage was cheap because it covered nothing, or the story is exaggerated nonsense.

7.5 % according to this piece.

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/214847-average-premium-under-obamacare-to-rise-75-percent

You realize that the overall CPI is like 1.7%, right?

The O'bama and company promised cost reductions. 7.5% is something like 450% of the average inflation rate.

Polecat
11-11-2014, 06:05 PM
Patients who didn't qualify for Medicaid coverage took their primary care to the ER and just didn't pay for it.

Now that Medicaid is expanded, these people are signing up and moving their business from the ER to the docs offices where it belongs.

ER visits are down across the region also, doc office visits are up.

That's funny. If I have an urgent issue come up I have to go to the ER cause my doc is two to four weeks booked. Got a nail in my eye about a year ago and we're still paying for that.

Captain Obvious
11-11-2014, 06:13 PM
That's funny. If I have an urgent issue come up I have to go to the ER cause my doc is two to four weeks booked. Got a nail in my eye about a year ago and we're still paying for that.

Most places have EZ Care walk-in offices but a lot of them won't take self pay. They'll refer them to the ER.

pjohns
11-12-2014, 02:14 AM
Got a nail in my eye about a year ago and we're still paying for that.

What sord of healthcare insurance do you have?

Does it come with a hefty deductible--as, say, ObamaCare does?

Redrose
11-12-2014, 03:10 AM
I wish Cigar and is people would just admit everyone was lied to, i mean hell the party is on video saying we were lied to what more do they need to admit wrong doing?



ACA architect Jonathan Gruber has admitted the ACA was a lousy plan and they intentionally lied to the "stupid" voters in order to get it passed. He went on further to say "if the American voter knew what was really in it, they never would have gone along with it".

Any law that takes from one group to give to another group is wrong and un-American. The ACA is one big lie. Obama intentionally lied to the American people. Anyone who thinks it's a good law is dilusional.

Common
11-12-2014, 03:31 AM
I have no personal experience with the ACA except when my closest friend passed on Jan3rd and his wife lost his healthcare. For her to get the same healthare he had prior to his death had a premium of 1130.00 per month for one person.
I went on the exchange and got her something similar for 640.00 per month. This year her same insurance saw an increase of 24.00 per month to 664.00

Redrose
11-12-2014, 03:44 AM
It messed up my healthcare. I went on Medicare last year. Not one doctor in my area (there are dozens I live near the hospital) will take a new Medicare patient. I have to go to a local clinic. They all are phasing out their Medicare patients and will not take on any new ones. The 3/4 of a billion dollars that the ACA robbed from Medicare hurt seniors. I also have been denied a test I need for an intestional problem that was found with a catscan. Medicare will not pay for it, I'm too old, (66) the doctor actually told me that, saying "if you were in your 20's or 30's they'd approve it". They said I could pay for the test myself, $3500. Gee thanks. Between my Medicare and supplement I pay almost $300 per month for health insurance just for myself, with high deductibles and co pays, my husband pays for his through his job. This is the worst coverage I've had since I was born.

Common
11-12-2014, 04:14 AM
It messed up my healthcare. I went on Medicare last year. Not one doctor in my area (there are dozens I live near the hospital) will take a new Medicare patient. I have to go to a local clinic. They all are phasing out their Medicare patients and will not take on any new ones. The 3/4 of a billion dollars that the ACA robbed from Medicare hurt seniors. I also have been denied a test I need for an intestional problem that was found with a catscan. Medicare will not pay for it, I'm too old, (66) the doctor actually told me that, saying "if you were in your 20's or 30's they'd approve it". They said I could pay for the test myself, $3500. Gee thanks. Between my Medicare and supplement I pay almost $300 per month for health insurance just for myself, with high deductibles and co pays, my husband pays for his through his job. This is the worst coverage I've had since I was born.

RedRose I believe you and I dont dispute what you say.
I live in fla and truthfully nothing has changed for me yet. All my doctors take the same patients they always have. None have signs up saying they are no longer taking this or that insurance or groups. Ive experienced no longer waits for appts. Nothing thats been approved in the past has been disapproved except for a psa test for prostrate cancer. Which eventually they did pay for.
I go to the VFW, Legion, DAV, moose and Elks clubs and I mingle with a considerable amount of people regularly, no one has demonstrated any negatives about their healthcare yet.

Peter1469
11-12-2014, 06:17 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G790p0LcgbI

ACA architect Jonathan Gruber has admitted the ACA was a lousy plan and they intentionally lied to the "stupid" voters in order to get it passed. He went on further to say "if the American voter knew what was really in it, they never would have gone along with it".

Any law that takes from one group to give to another group is wrong and un-American. The ACA is one big lie. Obama intentionally lied to the American people. Anyone who thinks it's a good law is dilusional.

Peter1469
11-12-2014, 06:20 AM
Lots of retirees in Florida. The state caters to them. I don't mean that in a negative way.


RedRose I believe you and I dont dispute what you say.
I live in fla and truthfully nothing has changed for me yet. All my doctors take the same patients they always have. None have signs up saying they are no longer taking this or that insurance or groups. Ive experienced no longer waits for appts. Nothing thats been approved in the past has been disapproved except for a psa test for prostrate cancer. Which eventually they did pay for.
I go to the VFW, Legion, DAV, moose and Elks clubs and I mingle with a considerable amount of people regularly, no one has demonstrated any negatives about their healthcare yet.

Common
11-12-2014, 06:59 AM
I dont know what catering to retiree's has to do with the ACA pete, the aca doesnt have any clauses that give special privledges to the retirees actually Ive heard the opposite

Peter1469
11-12-2014, 07:10 AM
I dont know what catering to retiree's has to do with the ACA pete, the aca doesnt have any clauses that give special privledges to the retirees actually Ive heard the opposite

I mean health care and dealing with them in general.

texan
11-12-2014, 10:04 AM
They have a second video of Gruber saying the same thing at a different place and time, I saw it last night.

Sure it was a one time mistake!

I wonder why this came out yesterday. It didn't! It was available on Penn's website for a year know one knew it was there until someone ran into it this past week.

PolWatch
11-12-2014, 10:55 AM
things like this make me wonder...if cops have to wear body cams to record their actions & words, maybe we could make politicians wear 'em too! sounds like a good idea to me!

pjohns
11-12-2014, 01:31 PM
Not one doctor in my area (there are dozens I live near the hospital) will take a new Medicare patient.

Sadly, this is quickly becoming the case.

Insofar as Medicare is concerned, I have only Part A (which pays toward hospitalization; it is a freebie, which is paid for by taxes throughout one's working lifetime). I also have Blue Cross/Blue Shield.


I'm too old, (66)...

Interestingly enough, that is my own exact age, also...

Common
11-12-2014, 01:41 PM
I wish Cigar and is people would just admit everyone was lied to, i mean hell the party is on video saying we were lied to what more do they need to admit wrong doing?

Look of course we were lied to, everyone in america knows it. Pelosi told us she was lieing. On national TV she stated quote. We have to pass it to know whats in it. That alone told everyone in america that it was not going to be what they were telling us it is. Having said that there isnt a major bill passed that we arent lied to about. Example" GWBushs prescription drug program for Seniors. He only pushed it through because Big Pharma was under seige by seniors who couldnt afford medicine and wanted it legal to buy from canada for Half or less than half of what it sold for here for the same medication. Bush at the behest of big Pharma passed then lied when he said the govt can negotiate cheaper prices and the cost wont go up yearly. HE LIED written right into the bill it states the govt CANNOT negotiate for cheaper prices. Big Pharma rapes that program it was a taxpayer windfall. The taxpayers now pay for prescriptions for old folks so that big pharma makes BILLIONS more and doesnt have to worry about americans buyin from canada Lieing to us isnt a one way street texan

Cigar
11-12-2014, 01:46 PM
ACA ZERO Impact on Da-Brother :laugh:

Professor Peabody
11-12-2014, 02:22 PM
@Cigar (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=294) always asks these questions, so here are the numbers.We had an ops committee meeting today to approve our health insurance rate increases/changes.

So, since Cigar asks this question all the time, here's the exact answer.Figures are two years ago (first number), new number two years later (second number) - for family level coverage (note the % increase is for a two-year period):

Co-pay: $3,500 to $6,000 (71.4% increase)
Deductable: $800 to $2,000 (150% increase)

These figures are 1-year, from last year (I didn't have the prior year info handy):

Payroll deduction (how much I pay per bi-weekly payroll): $112.29 to $126.30 (12.5% increase)
Office visits: $15 to $20 (33.3% increase)
ER co-pay: $100 to $150 (50% increase)

Similar or greater increases are expected next year also, our plan is to "feather in" the effect that the ACA is having on employer provided plans.Businesses all around us are doing the same thing, many are thinning their staff in order to make up for the increased costs.

This is your O'bamacare in action, these are real numbers, the real story.


“This bill was written in a tortured way to make sure CBO did not score the mandate as taxes. If CBO scored the mandate as taxes, the bill dies. Okay, so it’s written to do that. In terms of risk rated subsidies, if you had a law which said that healthy people are going to pay in – you made explicit healthy people pay in and sick people get money, it would not have passed… Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage. And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really really critical for the thing to pass… Look, I wish Mark was right that we could make it all transparent, but I’d rather have this law than not.” Obamacare Architect Jonathan Gruber - 2014

"call it the stupidity of the American voter" Obamacare Architect Jonathan Gruber - 2014

Cigar
11-12-2014, 02:24 PM
"call it the stupidity of the American voter" Obamacare Architect Jonathan Gruber - 2014

Well you and your friends called it ... now eat it

Captain Obvious
11-12-2014, 02:24 PM
ACA ZERO Impact on Da-Brother :laugh:

You mean you, right?

I highly doubt it. Either you're not being honest or you're not smart enough to see it.

I think it's less degrading to go with the former.

Cigar
11-12-2014, 02:27 PM
You mean you, right?

I highly doubt it. Either you're not being honest or you're not smart enough to see it.

I think it's less degrading to go with the former.

... Or I except it either way

Redrose
11-12-2014, 03:21 PM
RedRose I believe you and I dont dispute what you say.
I live in fla and truthfully nothing has changed for me yet. All my doctors take the same patients they always have. None have signs up saying they are no longer taking this or that insurance or groups. Ive experienced no longer waits for appts. Nothing thats been approved in the past has been disapproved except for a psa test for prostrate cancer. Which eventually they did pay for.
I go to the VFW, Legion, DAV, moose and Elks clubs and I mingle with a considerable amount of people regularly, no one has demonstrated any negatives about their healthcare yet.


I understand, if I had stayed in Florida and stayed with my doctor when I turned 65 he would have taken my Medicare, because I was his patient. My problem was because I moved to Tennessee and needed to get a new primary, but now I was a Medicare patient, so no one would take a new one. I should have moved her before I hit 65 and found a doctor before going on Medicare. You're lucky it hasn't hit you yet. My nephew is a doctor in Florida and he tells us just how bad it's going to get in '15 and '16.