Bush Is The Cause Of ISIS

[Howey]

We should have stayed out of Iraq and Afghanistan.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/isis-fighters-spawned-from-us-iraq-invasion-358664259963

[Common Sense]

This wont end well...

[Mac-7]

Bush could have handled it better.

Avoid Iraq entirely if saddam does not cause too much trouble.

and stay in Afghanistan just long enough to kill every taliban we can find in 6 months and then pull out.

But bush overcame his errors in Iraq and crushed the resistance before he left office.

it is the least American occupant of the named Obama who blew the peace.

[Peter1469]

There was no peace to be kept in Iraq. I posted an article several weeks ago about the assassinations of Sunni tribesmen that assisted the US. It started in 2008 and lasted until today, but was never openly realized until 2012. That was the ISIL crew doing it. The central government could care less because it was powerful Sunnis being killed.

Sunnis don't like Shia and Shia don't like Sunni. They have been fighting for 1300 years. We did stop that. We can't stop that.

We should sell weapons to both sides.

[Mr. Right]

There was no peace to be kept in Iraq. I posted an article several weeks ago about the assassinations of Sunni tribesmen that assisted the US. It started in 2008 and lasted until today, but was never openly realized until 2012. That was the ISIL crew doing it. The central government could care less because it was powerful Sunnis being killed.

Sunnis don't like Shia and Shia don't like Sunni. They have been fighting for 1300 years. We did stop that. We can't stop that.

We should sell weapons to both sides.


Unfortunately, we'll stay involved there and spend billions more; all money up a wildcat's as-s.

[nic34]

We should sell weapons to both sides.

Its just sad that any American can think that way, sad

[Peter1469]

Its just sad that any American can think that way, sad

Keep them busy fighting each other.

[Mr. Right]

Its just sad that any American can think that way, sad

What's your answer to this "thing" nic? Dazzle us...

[Mac-7]

There was no peace to be kept in Iraq. I posted an article several weeks ago about the assassinations of Sunni tribesmen that assisted the US. It started in 2008 and lasted until today, but was never openly realized until 2012. That was the ISIL crew doing it. The central government could care less because it was powerful Sunnis being killed.

Sunnis don't like Shia and Shia don't like Sunni. They have been fighting for 1300 years. We did stop that. We can't stop that.

We should sell weapons to both sides.

Speaking from the 3% point of view as you always do it is tempting to lump Iraq and Isis in with boco harum in Africa or other militant islams.

but that would be a mistake.

if Isis is allowed to take root and grow it will be like 1938 all over again.

[Gerrard Winstanley]

Keep them busy fighting each other.
Terrible idea.

This isn't a uniform religious war, either. The Syrian Army is predominantly Sunni, as is much of the Iraqi Army (not forgetting the Kurds).

[Peter1469]

Speaking from the 3% point of view as you always do it is tempting to lump Iraq and Isis in with boco harum in Africa or other militant islams.

but that would be a mistake.

if Isis is allowed to take root and grow it will be like 1938 all over again.

I think that is a massive overstatement. There is no power on earth that will create a conventional military that can take on the US military in a conventional fight. These guys are a half-baked motorized light infantry unit. They have no chance of recreating the German war machine.

[Peter1469]

Terrible idea.

This isn't a uniform religious war, either. The Syrian Army is predominantly Sunni, as is much of the Iraqi Army (not forgetting the Kurds).

The Sunni and Shia have been fighting each other for 1300 years without our encouragement.

[donttread]

We should have stayed out of Iraq and Afghanistan.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/isis-fighters-spawned-from-us-iraq-invasion-358664259963

60 years of our playing God in the ME to destabilizing the region is responsible for ISIS.

[Peter1469]

60 years of our playing God in the ME to destabilizing the region is responsible for ISIS.

I am not so sure about that. I think it is a fairly organic movement aimed more at Shiites than the West. Now al Qaeda was a different story.

[hanger4]

[QUOTE=Howey;839882Bush Is The Cause Of ISIS[/QUOTE]

MSNBC/Maddow left out Obama and incompetent Nouri al-Maliki. How convenient. I guess it doesn't fit into their partisan left wing agenda.

[birddog]

The weak CIC Clinton set up 9-11 and the war. Bush made mistakes perhaps, but Clinton's weakness exacerbated violence as has Obama.

[Common Sense]

The weak CIC Clinton set up 9-11 and the war. Bush made mistakes perhaps, but Clinton's weakness exacerbated violence as has Obama.

Perhaps? LOL...so blissfully unaware of your partisanship.

[The Xl]

60 years of our playing God in the ME to destabilizing the region is responsible for ISIS.

/Thread.

[Mac-7]

I think that is a massive overstatement. There is no power on earth that will create a conventional military that can take on the US military in a conventional fight. These guys are a half-baked motorized light infantry unit. They have no chance of recreating the German war machine.

Isis does not have to invade or occupy US soil to be a threat.

Given a base of operations like Syria and Iraq there are many things Isis can do to harm the US.

[Peter1469]

Isis does not have to invade a occupy US soil to be a threat.

Given a base of operations like Syria and Iraq there are many things Isis can do to harm the US.

And we can counter it without another invasion and silly nation building scheme.

[Mac-7]

And we can counter it without another invasion and silly nation building scheme.

Not Isis.

It has to be destroyed.

Which btw does not require nation building in Iraq.

hopefully there is enough remaining of the nation that bush built to do the job with our help.

[Peter1469]

OK. You have stated an end state. Destroy ISIL.

Now, what ways and means will you use to achieve that end?

We already tried 150K US troops with another 100K Iraqi troops and all the contractors (likely another 100K) and we didn't end the precursor to ISIL (al Qaeda in Iraq).

Do we need more troops? Do we need more time? More money?

Tell us- how do you propose to destroy ISIL?



Not Isis.

It has to be destroyed.

Which btw does not require nation building in Iraq.

hopefully there is enough remaining of the nation that bush built to do the job with our help.

[Chris]

60 years of our playing God in the ME to destabilizing the region is responsible for ISIS.


/Thread.

Agree, but it never is. We, or more broadly the West, gave the Sunnis a target to unite against.

[Mac-7]

OK. You have stated an end state. Destroy ISIL.

Now, what ways and means will you use to achieve that end?

We already tried 150K US troops with another 100K Iraqi troops and all the contractors (likely another 100K) and we didn't end the precursor to ISIL (al Qaeda in Iraq).

Do we need more troops? Do we need more time? More money?

Tell us- how do you propose to destroy ISIL?

It will take more troops than we have there now.

How many more is unclear.

[The Xl]

Agree, but it never is. We, or more broadly the West, gave the Sunnis a target to unite against.

That's because our state wants war and a presence in the Middle East.

[Peter1469]

It will take more troops than we have there now.

How many more is unclear.

Great plan.

[Mac-7]

Great plan.

I think you are confusing me with the Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff.

Im not qualified to plan the campaign against Isis any more (or less) than you are.

but I think it will have to be done.

[Peter1469]

I think you are confusing me with the Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff.

Im not qualified to plan the campaign against Isis any more (or less) than you are.

but I think it will have to be done.

It will never be done. It is not possible with the mood of the nation. Americans will not let this president or another send a couple hundred thousand troops back to the Middle East to invade and then occupy for a decade or two.

We do not have the will to destroy the Islamic State. We also don't have the money.

So you agree to stop tossing the word destroy around?

[Professor Peabody]

We should have stayed out of Iraq and Afghanistan.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/isis-fighters-spawned-from-us-iraq-invasion-358664259963


I know some in Washington would like us to start leaving Iraq now. To begin withdrawing before our commanders tell us we are ready would be dangerous for Iraq, for the region, and for the United States. It would mean surrendering the future of Iraq to al Qaeda. It would mean that we'd be risking mass killings on a horrific scale. It would mean we'd allow the terrorists to establish a safe haven in Iraq to replace the one they lost in Afghanistan. It would mean increasing the probability that American troops would have to return at some later date to confront an enemy that is even more dangerous. -George W. Bush - July 12, 2007 PRESS CONFERENCE (http://politics.suntimes.com/article/washington/sweet-blog-special-bush-press-conference-transcript-iraq-still-insisting-we-can)

Obama WAS warned........Just too ignorant to listen and just too arrogant to care.

[Mac-7]

It will never be done. It is not possible with the mood of the nation. Americans will not let this president or another send a couple hundred thousand troops back to the Middle East to invade and then occupy for a decade or two.

We do not have the will to destroy the Islamic State. We also don't have the money.

So you agree to stop tossing the word destroy around?

I agree to nothing.

we either destroy Isis or the consequences will worse than losing money.

[Chris]

Amazing how the Bush neocons and Obama neo-neocons are so tight in agreement here about destroying ISIS.

[Peter1469]

Amazing how the Bush neocons and Obama neo-neocons are so tight in agreement here about destroying ISIS.

They also have no clue about how such a thing could be accomplished.

They just say do it, and go back to sleep.

[Chris]

It's nearly impossible to defeat decentralized organizations. See Brafman & Beckstrom's The Starfish and the Spider: The Unstoppable Power of Leaderless Organizations. The marines who fought there would know this.

[Mac-7]

It's nearly impossible to defeat decentralized organizations. See Brafman & Beckstrom's The Starfish and the Spider: The Unstoppable Power of Leaderless Organizations. The marines who fought there would know this.

Actually Isis has helpfully centralized itself in Syria and Iraq and is attracting islam wackos from all over the world.

Im surprised that the isolationists didn't know that.

[Chris]

Actually Isis has helpfully centralized itself in Syria and Iraq and is attracting islam wackos from all over the world.

Im surprised that the isolationists didn't know that.


As only a committed neocon interventionist can see it, thanks.

The Roots of ISIS (http://www.theimaginativeconservative.org/2014/11/roots-isis.html) are decentralized Sunnis and Wahabis.

[Mac-7]

As only a committed neocon interventionist can see it, thanks.

The Roots of ISIS (http://www.theimaginativeconservative.org/2014/11/roots-isis.html) are decentralized Sunnis and Wahabis.

Then how can they form an army if all the soldiers are decentralized and not actually present for duty in Iraq?

[Chris]

Then how can they form an army if all the soldiers are decentralized and not actually present for duty in Iraq?

Like I said, you see things through interventionist neocon eyes so that's what you see.

[Mac-7]

Like I said, you see things through interventionist neocon eyes so that's what you see.

You did not answer the question.

obviously the Isis horde sweeping across Iraq is centralized rather than decentralized as you claim.

[Peter1469]

Sunnis are fighting Shia. There is nothing to see here.