Why did Jesus beat the money changers? A lesson in currency and control by PBW

[Paperback Writer]

Matthew 21:12-13

And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves. And He said to them, "It is written, 'MY HOUSE SHALL BE CALLED A HOUSE OF PRAYER'; but you are making it a ROBBERS' DEN."…

John 2:14-15

In the temple courts he found people selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.


Why would a pacifist become so angry that he overturned tables and chased these men out of the Temple grounds with a rope? Why would he call them robbers?


Temple taxes were paid in gold coins with no images upon them, they were called "half shekelshekels". Because the Romans demanded their tax be in the Roman currency the Jews could not use their normal coinage to go to Temple, therefore they needed to change that currency into the "half shekelshekels". Because that currency was in a limited supply it was a seller's market. Their monopoly on coinage of this allowed them to raise the cost to whatever the market would bear, which was a lot as Jews could not enter the Temple without paying the tax, could not participate as Jews without attending Temple, and therefore were at the mercy of these robbers who took a religious obligation and profited off it mercilessly.

This practice of currency monopoly and manipulation did not stop with the ancients. In my country the goldsmiths were the earliest bankers. They both minted coins and held them for those who were fearful to lose their coins to robbers and bandits. Taking a nod from the Chinese warlords, these goldsmiths issued paper receipts which were good for gold. However, they realised that they could issue more receipts than gold because no one would bother to cash it in all at once, and thus the robbery became normalised in practice and spread across the guild system to become the banking system we have today.

Though it is truly theft, we all use it and accept it because it exists and has always existed.

Today both the US and England have reserve systems which control the supply of currency. The fractional reserve system, enables those who hold the bonds on these "banks" (look up the names, I guarantee you won't be surprised) to profit 110% off of the wealth of the nations they "serve" as they are allowed to issue currency ten times that of the "gold" they allegedly are holding.

This creates a system where the notes that you hold are devalued so that their wealth increases.

In order to retain this wealth bondholders must eschew all attempts at competing currencies. I could make a list of successful competing currencies but I believe I'll save that for another time as I think that I just wrote all this for nothing.

If anyone's interested I'll continue.

[Chris]

Thus the resistance of nations to bitcoin. Or trying to manage it like Finland.

[Paperback Writer]

I'm resistant to bitcoin. I think that their ought to be competing currencies but in things like gold coins that have real value.

[The Xl]

Great thread.

Jesus knew what was up. Bankers, and those early carnations of bankers, are the biggest thieves and criminals to walk the Earth. Even today, they inflate and profit off the fractional reserve system, allowing them to profit off the interest of money they didn't have, money they created as debt, and manipulate the volume and worth of the currency.

[The Xl]

Thus the resistance of nations to bitcoin. Or trying to manage it like Finland.

Anything internet and digital only worries me. I'd rather have something you can hold in your hand.

[Paperback Writer]

Great thread.

Jesus knew what was up. Bankers, and those early carnations of bankers, are the biggest thieves and criminals to walk the Earth. Even today, they inflate and profit off the fractional reserve system, allowing them to profit off the interest of money they didn't have, money they created as debt, and manipulate the volume and worth of the currency.


King Henry the VIII worked with the Bank of England (a private bank even then) to relax the usury laws thus enabling the bankers (we all know who they are) to become incredibly wealthy beyond belief. The bond system also enables them to hide their true wealth which is estimated in trillions. That story is for another day, however, as the international bond system is complicated.

What most Americans don't know or understand is that the Bank of England actually controls the Federal Reserve in the states through bonds. So whilst you believe you're your own country and no longer subjects of the Crown, you are subjects to the Bank of England.

[The Xl]

No one cares about bankers and their fraudulent system predicated on theft, deception, and manipulation. This thread won't get any traction because the simpletons only like to argue about blacks, gays, and Obama.

[The Xl]

King Henry the VIII worked with the Bank of England (a private bank even then) to relax the usury laws thus enabling the bankers (we all know who they are) to become incredibly wealthy beyond belief. The bond system also enables them to hide their true wealth which is estimated in trillions. That story is for another day, however, as the international bond system is complicated.

What most Americans don't know or understand is that the Bank of England actually controls the Federal Reserve in the states through bonds. So whilst you believe you're your own country and no longer subjects of the Crown, you are subjects to the Bank of England.

Yeah, European bankers run our currency. It's a joke.

England finally lost their battle to the bankers in the 1800s when they finally got the tallysticks, something the bankers couldn't manipulate and profit off of, out of circulation. Then they got us in the early 1900s with the creation of the Federal Reserve and the income tax being passed into law.

Everyone wants to argue about how evil the mindless puppets of these guys are, like Obama, and they never want to address who actually controls things in this world.

[Chris]

Anything internet and digital only worries me. I'd rather have something you can hold in your hand.

I have bought any. But I do appreciate the attempt at coming up with a currency separate from the state.

[Paperback Writer]

No one cares about bankers and their fraudulent system predicated on theft, deception, and manipulation. This thread won't get any traction because the simpletons only like to argue about blacks, gays, and Obama.

It's also why those free market economists irritate because they know that free trade is nonexistent without competing currencies and any attempts to prioritise economics without starting with the banks is doomed to failure.

It's why Chris can point to the growth of wealth since opening trade with China without any improvement to the middle class standard of living or acknowledge that the middle class is shrinking due to the manipulation of currency outside the control of governments, not with the involvement of governments.

Who controls the currency?

[Paperback Writer]

Yeah, European bankers run our currency. It's a joke.

England finally lost their battle to the bankers in the 1800s when they finally got the tallysticks, something the bankers couldn't manipulate and profit off of, out of circulation. Then they got us in the early 1900s with the creation of the Federal Reserve and the income tax being passed into law.

Everyone wants to argue about how evil the mindless puppets of these guys are, like Obama, and they never want to address who actually controls things in this world.

Exactly so. This is why I am not necessarily anti-state as many of you are. Our monarchy from time to time would make valiant attempts to put the bankers in check. I blame King Henry VIII and his ego and selfishness which enslaved us forevermore to these cunts.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Look at the way his life ended and the abuses he supposedly suffered from his father and it's easy to see why Jesus was a bully.

[Chris]

It's also why those free market economists irritate because they know that free trade is nonexistent without competing currencies and any attempts to prioritise economics without starting with the banks is doomed to failure.

It's why Chris can point to the growth of wealth since opening trade with China without any improvement to the middle class standard of living or acknowledge that the middle class is shrinking due to the manipulation of currency outside the control of governments, not with the involvement of governments.

Who controls the currency?

You don't seem to understand what I argue. Perhaps it's me, perhaps it's your tendency toward caricature.

A free marketer would argue for competing currencies, including private currencies like bitcoin.

Trade has greatly improved the standard of living of everyone. That was amply demonstrated in recent discussions.

How is currency manipulated outside governments?

[Ethereal]

I always hear about how advanced central banking and FIAT money are, but as PBW noted, they go all the way back to ancient Chinese warlords. That is our modern monetary policy... :rollseyes:

[Paperback Writer]

Look at the way his life ended and the abuses he supposedly suffered from his father and it's easy to see why Jesus was a bully.

Thank you, truly, for the attempt to take a topic of intellectual discourse and turn it into abject nonsense.

[Paperback Writer]

You don't seem to understand what I argue. Perhaps it's me, perhaps it's your tendency toward caricature.

A free marketer would argue for competing currencies, including private currencies like bitcoin.

Trade has greatly improved the standard of living of everyone. That was amply demonstrated in recent discussions.

How is currency manipulated outside governments?

No, I've seen you argue for incrementalism which only worsens a bad situation.

[Polecat]

All banking globally is controlled by the Rothschild family, has been for several hundred years. And they operate the world's governments as puppets.

[Paperback Writer]

All banking globally is controlled by the Rothschild family, has been for several hundred years. And they operate the world's governments as puppets.

They've occasionally allowed others to become involved, those others as you take note are now related to them by marriage. They control the world in shadow and none the wiser.

[Chris]

No, I've seen you argue for incrementalism which only worsens a bad situation.

Better to test the water than to plunge in head first. Might be a shallow pool and you only bust your head open on the bottom.

So how does "incrementalism" (understood as small steps unplanned by any central authority) worsen a bad situation? And how was that bad situation arrived at if not by the central planning of elites who simple have not the knowledge needed for it?

You seem to want to stray off your topic.

[Peter1469]

All banking globally is controlled by the Rothschild family, has been for several hundred years. And they operate the world's governments as puppets.

Not globally, I believe that the Chinese hate the Rothschilds with a passion.

[Paperback Writer]

Better to test the water than to plunge in head first. Might be a shallow pool and you only bust your head open on the bottom.

It's testing nothing, Chris. It's enabling and it's enabling at the benefit of the banking elite to the detriment of the middle class. At this point, I'm quite willing to be selfish and say "fuck off" to those cunts and pressure for laws that benefit me, even temporarily until we can gain some foothold and regroup.




So how does "incrementalism" (understood as small steps unplanned by any central authority) worsen a bad situation? And how was that bad situation arrived at if not by the central planning of elites who simple have not the knowledge needed for it?


The results of this type of behaviour can be seen in the destruction of the middle class and the reduction of their personal wealth and what their property and currency is worth.



You seem to want to stray off your topic.

No, the topic is the bankers and those who manipulate systems using monopoly power. What is a corporation's bond and who holds it?

When you answer that truthfully then you return to the subject of "currency and control".

[Polecat]

They've occasionally allowed others to become involved, those others as you take note are now related to them by marriage. They control the world in shadow and none the wiser.

Rockefeller, Getty, yeah there are a bunch of them. I have even heard but do not know if it is true that Abe Lincoln's wife was in that bloodline and Lincoln was assassinated for not obeying his orders. The truth itself is so unbelievable that wild stories seem plausible.

[Paperback Writer]

Not globally, I believe that the Chinese hate the Rothschilds with a passion.

And the Russians. When Putin seized the oil control from private hands he punched Jacob Rothschild right in the gut and I'm sure Kingston was shitting his pants over that one.

[Polecat]

Not globally, I believe that the Chinese hate the Rothschilds with a passion.

That just endeared the Chinese to me to hear that.

[Peter1469]

That just endeared the Chinese to me to hear that. And the Russians.

[Polecat]

And the Russians. When Putin seized the oil control from private hands he punched Jacob Rothschild right in the gut and I'm sure Kingston was $#@!ting his pants over that one.

I'm thinking we may have been the evil empire all along.:embarrassed:

[Chris]

It's testing nothing, Chris. It's enabling and it's enabling at the benefit of the banking elite to the detriment of the middle class. At this point, I'm quite willing to be selfish and say "fuck off" to those cunts and pressure for laws that benefit me, even temporarily until we can gain some foothold and regroup.

The results of this type of behaviour can be seen in the destruction of the middle class and the reduction of their personal wealth and what their property and currency is worth.



No, the topic is the bankers and those who manipulate systems using monopoly power. What is a corporation's bond and who holds it?

When you answer that truthfully then you return to the subject of "currency and control".





It's testing nothing, Chris...

Then you have a different definition of incrementalism that I do. Which means, once again, you're arguing with something I have not espoused, thank you. And the rest with all that inflammatory vulgar language is ignored as emotional poppycock.



The results of this type of behaviour can be seen in the destruction of the middle class and the reduction of their personal wealth and what their property and currency is worth.

You're merely repeating your claim when asked to explain how.



No, the topic is the bankers and those who manipulate systems using monopoly power.

Then get back to that topic.

[Paperback Writer]

Then you have a different definition of incrementalism that I do. Which means, once again, you're arguing with something I have not espoused, thank you. And the rest with all that inflammatory vulgar language is ignored as emotional poppycock.

Perhaps you ought to be more clear then so I don't misunderstand. I'll meet you on the other thread and you say specifically what you propose incrementally to fix the situation with an immediate impact upon the middle class.


Then get back to that topic.

It's all the same topic.

Who holds a corporations bond?

[The Xl]

I always hear about how advanced central banking and FIAT money are, but as PBW noted, they go all the way back to ancient Chinese warlords. That is our modern monetary policy... :rollseyes:

They've just figured out newer ways to manipulate and devalue the currency, not to mention, they back it with nothing now, but yes, the practice has been around forever.

Moneychangers have been profiting off fraud, controlling countries, and creating or exacerbating wars for thousands of years.

[Paperback Writer]

They've just figured out newer ways to manipulate and devalue the currency, not to mention, they back it with nothing now, but yes, the practice has been around forever.

Moneychangers have been profiting off fraud, controlling countries, and creating or exacerbating wars for thousands of years.


They pushed for and backed our 50 year war until they were able to take full control of England.

[The Xl]

They pushed for and backed our 50 year war until they were able to take full control of England.

They instigated the war of 1812 after we didn't recharter the 1st bank of the United States, tried to assassinate Andrew Jackson for trying to kill the second bank....

They left a pretty obvious and decisive trail of evidence.

[Paperback Writer]

They instigated the war of 1812 after we didn't recharter the 1st bank of the United States, tried to assassinate Andrew Jackson for trying to kill the second bank....

They left a pretty obvious and decisive trail of evidence.

All this is prolly true, but as it's history we can't go off the circumstantial evidence. I do agree though that's what happened, allowing for the chance that it was just a two-shot occurrence.

[Bob]

I'm resistant to bitcoin. I think that their ought to be competing currencies but in things like gold coins that have real value.

I don't wish to debate Jesus at all.

But why do you presume gold has real value?

This is a serious question. You made the statement as if totally true it has real value.

Please defend that one statement.

As to the fractional reserve, were we to kill it, we would all become desperately poverty stricken.

I see the economy a bit different than you do, primarily I suppose because over my 76 years of age. I started companies and saw my workers not only get paid by me, but buy homes, cars, clothing, food and so forth. Something had I not opened up a company, they might have remained out of a job. Many of my workers came to me out of a job. I even worked with agencies to train workers.

[The Xl]

All this is prolly true, but as it's history we can't go off the circumstantial evidence. I do agree though that's what happened, allowing for the chance that it was just a two-shot occurrence.

When you pair the overwhelming circumstantial evidence with the overwhelming physical evidence.....you should have a conviction.

[Paperback Writer]

When you pair the overwhelming circumstantial evidence with the overwhelming physical evidence.....you should have a conviction.

Perhaps, but it was in the 1800's and while I agree, we can't really make the claim. I believed Johnson, his mafia, and the CIA killed Kennedy, but I can't prove it and therefore hesitate to claim it.

[PolWatch]

King Henry the VIII worked with the Bank of England (a private bank even then) to relax the usury laws thus enabling the bankers (we all know who they are) to become incredibly wealthy beyond belief. The bond system also enables them to hide their true wealth which is estimated in trillions. That story is for another day, however, as the international bond system is complicated.

What most Americans don't know or understand is that the Bank of England actually controls the Federal Reserve in the states through bonds. So whilst you believe you're your own country and no longer subjects of the Crown, you are subjects to the Bank of England.

great! I knew that China owns at least 1/2 of the country, now I find that the Bank of England owns the Fed Reserve? I guess the only thing we (citizens) own is the liability to pay all our nation's debt when they eventually default....

[Paperback Writer]

great! I knew that China owns at least 1/2 of the country, now I find that the Bank of England owns the Fed Reserve? I guess the only thing we (citizens) own is the liability to pay all our nation's debt when they eventually default....

They can't default nor can they pay it off. That's the trick. It will never happen cos the value is not there.

[The Xl]

Perhaps, but it was in the 1800's and while I agree, we can't really make the claim. I believed Johnson, his mafia, and the CIA killed Kennedy, but I can't prove it and therefore hesitate to claim it.
Fair enough.

It's not like you need the circumstantial evidence anyway. The system itself, rooted in fraud and theft, is quite enough, really.

[Calypso Jones]

Banking elite. What does that mean anyway?

And secondly. How many of you work in the banking industry?

[Paperback Writer]

Banking elite. What does that mean anyway?

Read the thread and it will be answered.




And secondly. How many of you work in the banking industry?

Before answering, must you work in an industry to have an opinion about it?

[Calypso Jones]

Before answering, must you work in an industry to have an opinion about it?

No but it would help if you had some actual real time experience with it before you go making your wild claims.

Is banking elite specifically defined or am I going to have to read between the lines so to speak.

[Bob]

Banking elite. What does that mean anyway?

And secondly. How many of you work in the banking industry?

Two simple questions that PW could not reply correctly to. A shame a brit refuses to talk straight.

I think his keyboard is his job.

My reply to her question is I work in the home mortgage business and for homes that is a banking sort of business in a few ways. We do not accept deposits nor loan on regular goods so we hardly scratch banking's butt. But when homes to sour, we get called banks all the time.

[Paperback Writer]

No but it would help if you had some actual real time experience with it before you go making your wild claims.

They're neither wild nor without experience in it. Wild, however, is subjective so why don't you start by detailing your experience in banking and the reserve system to explain what makes it so.

[Paperback Writer]

Two simple questions that PW could not reply correctly to. A shame a brit refuses to talk straight.

I think his keyboard is his job.

My reply to her question is I work in the home mortgage business and for homes that is a banking sort of business in a few ways. We do not accept deposits nor loan on regular goods so we hardly scratch banking's butt. But when homes to sour, we get called banks all the time.
Bob

the fact that you compare mortgages to this shows you're not qualified to speak to the world banking systems. No offence.

[Bob]

http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Bob http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=858067#post858067)
Two simple questions that PW could not reply correctly to. A shame a brit refuses to talk straight.

I think his keyboard is his job.

My reply to her question is I work in the home mortgage business and for homes that is a banking sort of business in a few ways. We do not accept deposits nor loan on regular goods so we hardly scratch banking's butt. But when homes to sour, we get called banks all the time.

@Bob (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1013)

the fact that you compare mortgages to this shows you're not qualified to speak to the world banking systems. No offence.

Actually had you not refused to reply to her questions, no need for me to educate you. I in no way said Mortgage "banking" as it is called so often, is just like commercial banking nor consumer banking. I even tipped the bright posters off (excluding you it appears) that WE get called banking when times go bad.

I was well versed in both consumer and commercial banking prior to my well over 40 years education in mortgage banking, as it is so often called.

You in England must not know much about this system.

Oh, no need to thank me for your enhanced education and no offence to you as well.


http://www.mbaa.org/default.htm

Independent Mortgage Bankers Conference (http://events.mortgagebankers.org/IMB2014/default.html)San Diego, CA - December 3, 2014


January 12 - 16 MISMO Winter 2015 Educational Summit and Workshop (http://www.mismo.org/MeetingsAndEvents/MISMOSUMMIT.htm)
February 1 - 4 CREF/Multifamily Housing Convention & Expo (http://events.mortgagebankers.org/CREF2015/default.html)
February 23 - 26 National Mortgage Servicing Conference & Expo (http://events.mortgagebankers.org/Servicing2015/default.html)

[Bob]

Paperback Writer, since you write for a living, are not engaged in any function of global banking, etc and etc, tell us why you are the forum expert on banking again?

I get a kick when some person in England, not knowing squat about me tells me I know nothing. And the amusement is this dude is a writer.

[Polecat]

No but it would help if you had some actual real time experience with it before you go making your wild claims.

Is banking elite specifically defined or am I going to have to read between the lines so to speak.
You can read up on the money that is directly controlled by the family Rothschild if you care to. I believe it is in the neighborhood of 800 trillion. If you are one of their peons you are no doubt being handsomely compensated. But you are obviously not going to be among the elect.

[Polecat]

@Bob (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1013)

the fact that you compare mortgages to this shows you're not qualified to speak to the world banking systems. No offence.
Don't mind Bob. He's a tool in the mid stages of dementia.

[The Xl]

Banking elite. What does that mean anyway?

And secondly. How many of you work in the banking industry?

Are you a rapist? If not, you have no right to critique rape or rapists.

Am I doing it right?

[Alyosha]

Bob

honestly you are the type of person who would teach a cow how to make milk. You never seem to have any idea when you really are in over your head and most of the time you only steer threads that could be good of course.

Since you understand this process, off the top of your head without looking it up, explain how fractional reserves work.

When you do that and we all read it, then we'll engage you, but your contributions being that you were a realtor and understand mortgages shows us that you do not understand what we're talking about at all.

[Alyosha]

Calypso Jones

the word "elite" implies a select portion of a group that is superior either in capabilities or quality. Therefore when someone says "elite bankers" they mean those that control the majority portion or shares of banking, that would be the Rothschild family, predominantly, but there are others.

As far as who works in banking or doesn't, I've yet to see you stopped from commenting on a subject or field that you haven't worked in, so this is just a lame attempt to stifle people from discussing something that for whatever reason you don't want spoken of.

Maybe no one but Peter, Newpub or I should talk about legislation like the ACA because we're the only lawyers on the forum, would you like that to be the case?

[Bob]

@Bob (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1013)

honestly you are the type of person who would teach a cow how to make milk. You never seem to have any idea when you really are in over your head and most of the time you only steer threads that could be good of course.

Since you understand this process, off the top of your head without looking it up, explain how fractional reserves work.

When you do that and we all read it, then we'll engage you, but your contributions being that you were a realtor and understand mortgages shows us that you do not understand what we're talking about at all.

No, it shows you simply do not understand me. I believe in my soul that you never understood me.

And you want to call me just a Realtor without you knowing me in person?


What suddenly qualifies you as the expert. Now that you crapped on me and I right back, fractional banking is the process where banks leverage bank deposits far above the actual deposits. If you really know what you are talking about, now you should figure that out.

I won't post on any thread if I am not able to add value to such posts. A lot of posts I shun because I can't add value. I stay out of issues that causes me to be over my head. God, why can't you discuss topics and lay off discussing posters?

[Bob]

@Calypso Jones (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=248)

the word "elite" implies a select portion of a group that is superior either in capabilities or quality. Therefore when someone says "elite bankers" they mean those that control the majority portion or shares of banking, that would be the Rothschild family, predominantly, but there are others.

As far as who works in banking or doesn't, I've yet to see you stopped from commenting on a subject or field that you haven't worked in, so this is just a lame attempt to stifle people from discussing something that for whatever reason you don't want spoken of.

Maybe no one but Peter, Newpub or I should talk about legislation like the ACA because we're the only lawyers on the forum, would you like that to be the case?

You act all butt hurt. Are you having another bad day?

You jumped her case for a rather simple question then insulted me. That is a large number of insults or taunts in my book.

Oh wait, your taunts and insults add value to the topic?????????????

[Bob]

Are you a rapist? If not, you have no right to critique rape or rapists.

Am I doing it right?

No but it means you hate to answer actual good questions.

[Alyosha]

No, it shows you simply do not understand me. I believe in my soul that you never understood me.

And you want to call me just a Realtor without you knowing me in person?


What suddenly qualifies you as the expert. Now that you crapped on me and I right back, fractional banking is the process where banks leverage bank deposits far above the actual deposits. If you really know what you are talking about, now you should figure that out.

I won't post on any thread if I am not able to add value to such posts. A lot of posts I shun because I can't add value. I stay out of issues that causes me to be over my head. God, why can't you discuss topics and lay off discussing posters?

I didn't say you were "just a realtor" I said you were a realtor and I said that this discussion has nothing to do with mortgages, but is at a higher level.

You do, more often than not, try to teach cows how to make milk.

That said, I think you're a nice old man and don't mean to hurt people's feelings, it's just something you do on accident.

[Bob]

Don't mind Bob. He's a tool in the mid stages of dementia.

It is you so in the stages of dementia that dare insult others in such a fashion. Polecat.
Polecat, until you blurted that insult out, I was willing to cut you a lot of slack.

Any fool can insult posters. I do my best to evade pulling those cheap tricks.

[Alyosha]

You act all butt hurt. Are you having another bad day?

You jumped her case for a rather simple question then insulted me. That is a large number of insults or taunts in my book.

Oh wait, your taunts and insults add value to the topic?????????????


I'm not butthurt, so don't project and get back on the topic. Do you disagree with what I said about the definition of elite or banking?

Do you disagree with what I said about denying people the right to speak even if they don't work in that industry?

No, I know you do not.

The subject of the thread is money changing and the banking industry. Talk about the OP in specifics or I'll report you. This is an interesting topic and I don't want it to degrade because people get their panties in a bunch if we say something bad about someone in business.

It happens, get over it.

[Bob]

I didn't say you were "just a realtor" I said you were a realtor and I said that this discussion has nothing to do with mortgages, but is at a higher level.

You do, more often than not, try to teach cows how to make milk.

That said, I think you're a nice old man and don't mean to hurt people's feelings, it's just something you do on accident.

No, some cows get caught up by my explanations. but the vast number posting on this forum are not cows nor know how to make milk.

I don't hurt anybody on accident. I don't tell posters I am a bitch nor a bastard to them. Suppose you tell the forum who claims she is a bitch?

It is not my nature to wish to hurt any person's feelings until they slash and burn me.

Actually as you may not notice, mortgages played a huge factor in the recession in the USA.

It is very presumptive on your part to claim I don't understand the other facets of banking. I explained that in the past.

First, I never compared mortgages. I stated that at times we get called mortgage bankers. I have extensively proved my understanding of economics over and over and including the rest of banking. That you don't know about Mortgage banking must leave you out when it comes to discussing the collapse.

Talk law to me. I understand business law, real estate law and how to prepare a lot of legal papers.

No, do not engage me in criminal law. I fully admit I am not remotely qualified there.

In college I not only argued cases in class, as all of us had to do, I prepared briefs in law and got straight As in law. Yes, I did write papers for the class that also graded all A grades.

[Bob]

I'm not butthurt, so don't project and get back on the topic. Do you disagree with what I said about the definition of elite or banking?

Do you disagree with what I said about denying people the right to speak even if they don't work in that industry?

No, I know you do not.

The subject of the thread is money changing and the banking industry. Talk about the OP in specifics or I'll report you. This is an interesting topic and I don't want it to degrade because people get their panties in a bunch if we say something bad about someone in business.

It happens, get over it.

Sure, i will return to the actual post that alleges what you allege.

But on this post, you start it. When you start it with me, don't be expecting me to not defend myself.

You derailed it.

[Chloe]

everybody please stay on topic and try to avoid making it personal. Thank you.

[Bob]

Alyosha stated
Do you disagree with what I said about the definition of elite or banking?

Do you disagree with what I said about denying people the right to speak even if they don't work in that industry?

I agree that as far as it went, you did make correct comments on the elite of banking. For what it is worth, it fell short since you may have been talking to a real banker as if she does not know a thing.

We all talk at times on topics we only know what the media allows us to know. That is why I am huge on research. I understood banking fully by 1967. When did you believe you understand it.

The OP launched into a dialogue about Jesus and his actions in a Jew temple.

I dismissed Jesus but took on the actual topic, alleged banking in a temple and money changing.

When some insulted me, sure, it the topic off into a he said or she said direction.

It is not ever my intention to divert a really good topic. You can take that to the bank.

Sadly you don't know of my background concerning banking. I don't mind when the unwashed masses try to discuss mortgage banking. I find a gross number of errors when those not in the business boldly lecture me who is in the business. But I never see you complain when that happens.

[Polecat]

It is you so in the stages of dementia that dare insult others in such a fashion. @Polecat (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=921).
@Polecat (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=921), until you blurted that insult out, I was willing to cut you a lot of slack.

Any fool can insult posters. I do my best to evade pulling those cheap tricks.

You are right Bob. That was uncalled for and I do apologize for being so rude. Your walk is yours and I have no business cutting you off at the knees with that kind of remark. I am sorry.

[Bob]

It is never.....NEVER personal to me until they make it personal and ATTACK Me.

[Bob]

You are right Bob. That was uncalled for and I do apologize for being so rude. Your walk is yours and I have no business cutting you off at the knees with that kind of remark. I am sorry.

What is it you are apologizing for? ROFLMAO

I forgot.

Kidding.

Thanks.

No harm no foul.

[Polecat]

What is it you are apologizing for? ROFLMAO

I forgot.

Kidding.

Thanks.

No harm no foul.
No, it was a foul. Your age is not spaghetti sauce on your shirt. It was a rude thing to type at you and I was wrong to do so.

[Bob]

Let me try to benefit PW's discussion.

PW says (It is not needed to discuss Jesus, temples and removing bankers from said temples.

However going back to this.


Paperback Writer

This practice of currency monopoly and manipulation did not stop with the ancients. In my country the goldsmiths were the earliest bankers. They both minted coins and held them for those who were fearful to lose their coins to robbers and bandits. Taking a nod from the Chinese warlords, these goldsmiths issued paper receipts which were good for gold. However, they realised that they could issue more receipts than gold because no one would bother to cash it in all at once, and thus the robbery became normalised in practice and spread across the guild system to become the banking system we have today.

Though it is truly theft, we all use it and accept it because it exists and has always existed.

Today both the US and England have reserve systems which control the supply of currency. The fractional reserve system, enables those who hold the bonds on these "banks" (look up the names, I guarantee you won't be surprised) to profit 110% off of the wealth of the nations they "serve" as they are allowed to issue currency ten times that of the "gold" they allegedly are holding.

This creates a system where the notes that you hold are devalued so that their wealth increases.

In order to retain this wealth bondholders must eschew all attempts at competing currencies. I could make a list of successful competing currencies but I believe I'll save that for another time as I think that I just wrote all this for nothing.

If anyone's interested I'll continue.

PW: This practice of currency monopoly and manipulation

Bob: Someone must do it, but if you think not, who then will ensure value in currency? As to manipulation, there is no mystery. All over the globe, various experts in money determine the exchange value so we can use dollars to buy products in Russia that sell for Rubles. We can buy from Japan when they use Yen.

PW: these goldsmiths issued paper receipts which were good for gold.

Bob: Since miners first obtained and owned gold, it was up to them to decide if paper was suitable. Paper though as good as gold, yup, when you buy and sell gold, you don't get more gold or silver, you get what? Paper or credit.

I have bought and sold gold. When you sell it, it is discounted so you get less real cash than the alleged value of gold. When they sell gold, they are guaranteed a profit.

PW:However, they realised that they could issue more receipts than gold because no one would bother to cash it in all at once, and thus the robbery became normalised in practice and spread across the guild system to become the banking system we have today.

Bob... I refuse to argue that because at some point fractional banking was invented and there is no decent purpose to arguing over this or that.

I believe most of us engaged with bankers understand they must pay wages, overhead and other expenses, so when they pay us 1 percent on deposits, they must fully use any tool they have to both,

Keep us interested in using them
Make cash available to us in the course of business where we pay a premium, called interest, to borrow said cash. If they fail to run a bank right, they fail.

Banks have failed and the public lost interest or faith in the banks. They stiff us all at their peril.

To call them robbers can only be proven by the public accounting Banks must do for their stockholders and even depositors so wishing bank, statements to show their full accounting.

PW: However, they realised that they could issue more receipts than gold because no one would bother to cash it in all at once, and thus the robbery became normalised in practice and spread across the guild system to become the banking system we have today.

Governments globally approve this. A lot goes wrong when Government gets involved. I would love to see more blame on government.

I believe I covered almost all of your salient points. As to your final point, a lot of it hits the fan and we are naturally in the way of it.

[Bob]

No, it was a foul. Your age is not spaghetti sauce on your shirt. It was a rude thing to type at you and I was wrong to do so.

Thank you. Actually I am so happy to be 76. As a young guy, I imagined at 76 you were frail, about crippled, hardly walked, and mushed your words.

I look in the mirror and say, at 76, you ought to look real old.

Alas, nature has been kind to me.
I think clearly, write clearly, am still damned intelligent (not to toot my horn but be very honest) and take no credit for what nature handed me. Nature could have given me Downs syndrome, put me into an iron lung as a kid, and many ailments could have hit. Me. I am blessed with good health. i very seldom get a cold or flu.

I thank you for correcting your posting style. Let's just call it style and forget it.

Thanks one more time.

[Alyosha]

Bob

no someone must not manipulate currency. We should have competing currencies backed against, not a fractional reserve, but actual wealth as we understand it.

Currency competition holds real value.

[Bob]

@Bob (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1013)

no someone must not manipulate currency. We should have competing currencies backed against, not a fractional reserve, but actual wealth as we understand it.

Currency competition holds real value.

I had thought you might really understand fractional banking.

I won't bore you with my milking cow lecture but no, that won't work as you claim it would.

Here is one reason why.

First, not everybody can define wealth. I see a lot of things said about wealth and they are just wrong, so i can pretty well guage it.

I happened to learn some of it from Dunn and Bradstreet.

I was so interested in the nature of wealth, that it was probably in the mid 60s I started to study wealth.

I also was mentored by some wealthy people.

Should we use gold? Well, too scarce and it limits human progress. Grain? gets moldy in storage. Trees? Well you see that problem.

For each idea that uses a metal, one runs into the problem of too little supply. Humans have populated so much more since I was 20 than I ever imagined they would. A lot of nations would be depopulating but for the Muslims taking over their countries. f

Muslims to my way of thinking don't see Gold as a standard.

The fractional reserve works find so long as some determined scale is imposed and held to. That happens to be what our Federal Reserve is in business to do.

Muslims might be comfortable with oil. America I doubt wants oil to be our standard.

[Bob]

Alyosha, go find a dealer selling gold.

But don't buy much of it.

Buy an OZ.

Then in a month, visit the dealer to try to get back the cash you spent.

You will learn a lot about gold by being involved in that market.

[Alyosha]

I do understand fractional, Bob. I'm against it. I'm also against a monopoly on currency. We're not talking about what exists, other than to say that it does and why.

We're saying what's wrong with it and why we don't want it.

As for gold and the like, why do you assume automatically that I don't own gold or have bought gold? This is why sometimes I want to put you on ignore, then I remember you're older and I try to have patience.

[Green Arrow]

I think the increasing use of electronic money is also part of that, Paperback Writer. It's even less "real" and backed up than our paper money. Yet, it's such a huge facet of the economy. We get paid in invisible electronic money, and unless you pay for everything in cash, you purchase and sell in this invisible, electronic money.

[iustitia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0

[Bob]

I think the increasing use of electronic money is also part of that, @Paperback Writer (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=862). It's even less "real" and backed up than our paper money. Yet, it's such a huge facet of the economy. We get paid in invisible electronic money, and unless you pay for everything in cash, you purchase and sell in this invisible, electronic money.

Should you ever take a course in Business law, or economics, you will learn that money is not one thing, it is many things. When people wrote checks to pay bills, that ended up being electrictronic as well. Money is no longer gold. Gold as a metal simply is in too short a supply even at sky high prices.

[Alyosha]

Should you ever take a course in Business law, or economics, you will learn that money is not one thing, it is many things. When people wrote checks to pay bills, that ended up being electrictronic as well. Money is no longer gold. Gold as a metal simply is in too short a supply even at sky high prices.
@Bob (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1013)

please stop trying to teach us things that we already know. We already know that "currency" is anything of value. We're speaking of issued national currencies, so please stop going off track in this thread.

[Green Arrow]

Should you ever take a course in Business law, or economics, you will learn that money is not one thing, it is many things. When people wrote checks to pay bills, that ended up being electrictronic as well. Money is no longer gold. Gold as a metal simply is in too short a supply even at sky high prices.

Is water wet too, Bob?

[Alyosha]

This is why we can't have nice things.

[Bob]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0

Mike Malone does not turn down a dollar since he speaks to earn dollars.

I watched almost 5 minutes hoping to actually learn something.

Most are confused by the money system and use that as some mystery to rake in a lot of money.

Mike will happily take your money to show you how to guess what? Make money.

[Bob]

http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Bob http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=858379#post858379)
Should you ever take a course in Business law, or economics, you will learn that money is not one thing, it is many things. When people wrote checks to pay bills, that ended up being electrictronic as well. Money is no longer gold. Gold as a metal simply is in too short a supply even at sky high prices.


Is water wet too, Bob?

As I suspected, you probably will not take either course.

This is one reason why you are not easy to talk to. Dealing with a petulant person is very hard.

[Alyosha]

Bob

did you read the OP? Why must you continue to go off topic and why when someone consistently goes off topic (a rule, btw) is this always allowed.

If you want to discuss what you want to discuss, make a different thread and maybe we'll all join you there.

[Alyosha]

As I suspected, you probably will not take either course.

This is one reason why you are not easy to talk to. Dealing with a petulant person is very hard.


Bob, for the last fucking time. DO NOT TREAT US LIKE WE ARE UNEDUCATED AND DESIRE YOUR ASSISTANCE TO THAT END.

WE UNDERSTAND WHAT CURRENCY IS.

WE UNDERSTAND THAT ANYTHING FROM MOONSHINE TO FIAT MONEY IS CURRENCY.

WE UNDERSTAND THAT IN THE EVENT OF A NATURAL DISASTER THAT FOOD AND BULLETS WILL BE WORTH MORE THAN GOLD.

THANK YOU.

[Bob]

http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Bob http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=858379#post858379)
Should you ever take a course in Business law, or economics, you will learn that money is not one thing, it is many things. When people wrote checks to pay bills, that ended up being electrictronic as well. Money is no longer gold. Gold as a metal simply is in too short a supply even at sky high prices.


@Bob (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1013)

please stop trying to teach us things that we already know. We already know that "currency" is anything of value. We're speaking of issued national currencies, so please stop going off track in this thread.

You persist in trying to teach me a lot of things I already know. Not one time have I bashed you. Maybe that was my big mistake.

Show where I am not dealing with the topic of money? Money can be in the USA or globally. i am not sure you follow me to begin with.

[Bob]

Bob, for the last fucking time. DO NOT TREAT US LIKE WE ARE UNEDUCATED AND DESIRE YOUR ASSISTANCE TO THAT END.

WE UNDERSTAND WHAT CURRENCY IS.

WE UNDERSTAND THAT ANYTHING FROM MOONSHINE TO FIAT MONEY IS CURRENCY.

WE UNDERSTAND THAT IN THE EVENT OF A NATURAL DISASTER THAT FOOD AND BULLETS WILL BE WORTH MORE THAN GOLD.

THANK YOU.


Unless the we you speak of is more than you, and i never told you that money is other than what you claim since I also said any person who studied business law, knows this. And you studied business law.

Green arrow loves to smart off at me so please let him hang on his own petard. Are you his mom today?

[Chloe]

@Alyosha (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=863) can you please redefine what the topic is please so that everybody can get back on topic? Admittedly this topic is a little bit beyond me and so i'm not really sure how to enforce the going off topic rule :undecided:

@Bob (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1013) I think if you were a little less condescending they probably wouldn't be complaining like this to you, just saying.

[Bob]

@Bob (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1013)

did you read the OP? Why must you continue to go off topic and why when someone consistently goes off topic (a rule, btw) is this always allowed.

If you want to discuss what you want to discuss, make a different thread and maybe we'll all join you there.

Funny that you don't admit that to make sure the debate was on track, I posted what PW stated and discussed his salient points.

You should of all people know about money. You took it in law school. But can you claim others also took it as you and I took it. I am not even trying to engage you yet you leap all over me.

Justina's threads must really offend you since he lectures as a lawyer.

[Green Arrow]

As I suspected, you probably will not take either course.

This is one reason why you are not easy to talk to. Dealing with a petulant person is very hard.

Plenty of people find me easy to talk to. That you don't is a reflection on you, not me. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm actually interested in PBW's topic and I will not help you destroy it.

[Bob]

@Alyosha (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=863) can you please redefine what the topic is please so that everybody can get back on topic? Admittedly this topic is a little bit beyond me and so i'm not really sure how to enforce the going off topic rule :undecided:

@Bob (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1013) I think if you were a little less condescending they probably wouldn't be complaining like this to you, just saying.

One can't actually be condescending in writing given the medium is super poor for that.

They is Alyosha. She and I both studied money as part of our law courses.

She keeps acting as if my comments to others means they are to her.

A few posts back,. I redefined it by cutting and pasting what PWriter stated but left out his lecture on Jesus and cut to the chase and spent a bit of time discuss ing what he stated. But for some unknown reason,. my horse is jumped by Alyosha though I did not mention her at all.

I will repost my earlier post where I stuck to what Paperback Writer said. Bet that is missed as well . We will see. @Chloe (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=565).

Finally you said this. Chloe "and so i'm not really sure how to enforce the going off topic rule"

I assure you the topic is not me nor my typing replies to salient points. Alyosha's attacks are off point.

Excuse me while I find my post dealing with the OP in full.

[Green Arrow]

Can everyone on this thread do PBW some respect and just pretend Bob is not posting in this thread? I'm doing it now, we'd all be better off doing it.

[Bob]

Plenty of people find me easy to talk to. That you don't is a reflection on you, not me. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm actually interested in PBW's topic and I will not help you destroy it.

Had you read my earlier post, you would see I not only discussed his points, but commented on all points save one. When you smart mouth me, you destroy it, not me.

[Chloe]

One can't actually be condescending in writing given the medium is super poor for that.

They is Alyosha. She and I both studied money as part of our law courses.

She keeps acting as if my comments to others means they are to her.

A few posts back,. I redefined it by cutting and pasting what PWriter stated but left out his lecture on Jesus and cut to the chase and spent a bit of time discuss ing what he stated. But for some unknown reason,. my horse is jumped by Alyosha though I did not mention her at all.

I will repost my earlier post where I stuck to what Paperback Writer said. Bet that is missed as well . We will see. @Chloe (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=565).

Finally you said this. Chloe "and so i'm not really sure how to enforce the going off topic rule"

I assure you the topic is not me nor my typing replies to salient points. Alyosha's attacks are off point.

Excuse me while I find my post dealing with the OP in full.

Bob i'm just trying to help get the thread back on track for EVERYBODY. Just please post something relating to the topic and not to my response to you or Alyosha or anybody else please.

[Chloe]

Can everyone on this thread do PBW some respect and just pretend Bob is not posting in this thread? I'm doing it now, we'd all be better off doing it.

FYI this probably doesn't help

[iustitia]

PBW is gonna be like 'WTF?' when he returns.

[Bob]

Post 66 repeated. Please engage where needed in the topic and to the points made by both PW and Bob.

Thank you all.

Let me try to benefit PW's discussion.

PW says (It is not needed to discuss Jesus, temples and removing bankers from said temples.

However going back to this.


Paperback Writer

This practice of currency monopoly and manipulation did not stop with the ancients. In my country the goldsmiths were the earliest bankers. They both minted coins and held them for those who were fearful to lose their coins to robbers and bandits. Taking a nod from the Chinese warlords, these goldsmiths issued paper receipts which were good for gold. However, they realised that they could issue more receipts than gold because no one would bother to cash it in all at once, and thus the robbery became normalised in practice and spread across the guild system to become the banking system we have today.

Though it is truly theft, we all use it and accept it because it exists and has always existed.

Today both the US and England have reserve systems which control the supply of currency. The fractional reserve system, enables those who hold the bonds on these "banks" (look up the names, I guarantee you won't be surprised) to profit 110% off of the wealth of the nations they "serve" as they are allowed to issue currency ten times that of the "gold" they allegedly are holding.

This creates a system where the notes that you hold are devalued so that their wealth increases.

In order to retain this wealth bondholders must eschew all attempts at competing currencies. I could make a list of successful competing currencies but I believe I'll save that for another time as I think that I just wrote all this for nothing.

If anyone's interested I'll continue.


PW: This practice of currency monopoly and manipulation

Bob: Someone must do it, but if you think not, who then will ensure value in currency? As to manipulation, there is no mystery. All over the globe, various experts in money determine the exchange value so we can use dollars to buy products in Russia that sell for Rubles. We can buy from Japan when they use Yen.

PW: these goldsmiths issued paper receipts which were good for gold.

Bob: Since miners first obtained and owned gold, it was up to them to decide if paper was suitable. Paper though as good as gold, yup, when you buy and sell gold, you don't get more gold or silver, you get what? Paper or credit.

I have bought and sold gold. When you sell it, it is discounted so you get less real cash than the alleged value of gold. When they sell gold, they are guaranteed a profit.

PW:However, they realised that they could issue more receipts than gold because no one would bother to cash it in all at once, and thus the robbery became normalised in practice and spread across the guild system to become the banking system we have today.

Bob... I refuse to argue that because at some point fractional banking was invented and there is no decent purpose to arguing over this or that.

I believe most of us engaged with bankers understand they must pay wages, overhead and other expenses, so when they pay us 1 percent on deposits, they must fully use any tool they have to both,

Keep us interested in using them
Make cash available to us in the course of business where we pay a premium, called interest, to borrow said cash. If they fail to run a bank right, they fail.

Banks have failed and the public lost interest or faith in the banks. They stiff us all at their peril.

To call them robbers can only be proven by the public accounting Banks must do for their stockholders and even depositors so wishing bank, statements to show their full accounting.

PW: However, they realised that they could issue more receipts than gold because no one would bother to cash it in all at once, and thus the robbery became normalised in practice and spread across the guild system to become the banking system we have today.

Governments globally approve this. A lot goes wrong when Government gets involved. I would love to see more blame on government.

I believe I covered almost all of your salient points. As to your final point, a lot of it hits the fan and we are naturally in the way of it.

[Alyosha]

You persist in trying to teach me a lot of things I already know. Not one time have I bashed you. Maybe that was my big mistake.

Show where I am not dealing with the topic of money? Money can be in the USA or globally. i am not sure you follow me to begin with.

I don't use a callout and instruct you. I just don't.

The topic of the thread is money changers, not money. Money changers, not money. Money changers, not money.

!!!!!

[Alyosha]

matthew 21:12-13

and jesus entered the temple and drove out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves. and he said to them, "it is written, 'my house shall be called a house of prayer'; but you are making it a robbers' den."…

john 2:14-15

in the temple courts he found people selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. so he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.


why would a pacifist become so angry that he overturned tables and chased these men out of the temple grounds with a rope? Why would he call them robbers?


Temple taxes were paid in gold coins with no images upon them, they were called "half shekelshekels". Because the romans demanded their tax be in the roman currency the jews could not use their normal coinage to go to temple, therefore they needed to change that currency into the "half shekelshekels". Because that currency was in a limited supply it was a seller's market. Their monopoly on coinage of this allowed them to raise the cost to whatever the market would bear, which was a lot as jews could not enter the temple without paying the tax, could not participate as jews without attending temple, and therefore were at the mercy of these robbers who took a religious obligation and profited off it mercilessly.

This practice of currency monopoly and manipulation did not stop with the ancients. In my country the goldsmiths were the earliest bankers. They both minted coins and held them for those who were fearful to lose their coins to robbers and bandits. Taking a nod from the chinese warlords, these goldsmiths issued paper receipts which were good for gold. However, they realised that they could issue more receipts than gold because no one would bother to cash it in all at once, and thus the robbery became normalised in practice and spread across the guild system to become the banking system we have today.

Though it is truly theft, we all use it and accept it because it exists and has always existed.

Today both the us and england have reserve systems which control the supply of currency. The fractional reserve system, enables those who hold the bonds on these "banks" (look up the names, i guarantee you won't be surprised) to profit 110% off of the wealth of the nations they "serve" as they are allowed to issue currency ten times that of the "gold" they allegedly are holding.

This creates a system where the notes that you hold are devalued so that their wealth increases.

In order to retain this wealth bondholders must eschew all attempts at competing currencies. I could make a list of successful competing currencies but i believe i'll save that for another time as i think that i just wrote all this for nothing.

If anyone's interested i'll continue.


bump

[Bob]

Bob i'm just trying to help get the thread back on track for EVERYBODY. Just please post something relating to the topic and not to my response to you or Alyosha or anybody else please.
Chloe

Can you put a stop to what Green Arrow and Alyosha is pulling? Thank you.

But since you wanted it on topic, check post 66 by me and also I believe it is post 93 which is a replay.

You said you are confused. I hope either 66 or 93 will clear it up for you.

There you will find the best part of the OP with commentary to PW.

[Alyosha]

Paperback Writer

Why did English kings give up the tally system and give in to the Rothschilds?

[Chloe]

@Chloe (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=565)

Can you put a stop to what Green Arrow and Alyosha is pulling? Thank you.

But since you wanted it on topic, check post 66 by me and also I believe it is post 93 which is a replay.

You said you are confused. I hope either 66 or 93 will clear it up for you.

There you will find the best part of the OP with commentary to PW.

Thank you @Bob (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1013) now please just focus on the topic and not green arrow or alyosha. When you make posts like this it ultimately means one of them will reply and keep the thread going off topic. Just please continue with money changers and please do not reply to this reply.

[Bob]

I don't use a callout and instruct you. I just don't.

The topic of the thread is money changers, not money. Money changers, not money. Money changers, not money.
!!!!!

The topic contains so much more. But when you read the OP, you will find that out.

[Alyosha]

Matthew 21:12-13

And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves. And He said to them, "It is written, 'MY HOUSE SHALL BE CALLED A HOUSE OF PRAYER'; but you are making it a ROBBERS' DEN."…

John 2:14-15

In the temple courts he found people selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.


Why would a pacifist become so angry that he overturned tables and chased these men out of the Temple grounds with a rope? Why would he call them robbers?


Temple taxes were paid in gold coins with no images upon them, they were called "half shekelshekels". Because the Romans demanded their tax be in the Roman currency the Jews could not use their normal coinage to go to Temple, therefore they needed to change that currency into the "half shekelshekels". Because that currency was in a limited supply it was a seller's market. Their monopoly on coinage of this allowed them to raise the cost to whatever the market would bear, which was a lot as Jews could not enter the Temple without paying the tax, could not participate as Jews without attending Temple, and therefore were at the mercy of these robbers who took a religious obligation and profited off it mercilessly.

This practice of currency monopoly and manipulation did not stop with the ancients. In my country the goldsmiths were the earliest bankers. They both minted coins and held them for those who were fearful to lose their coins to robbers and bandits. Taking a nod from the Chinese warlords, these goldsmiths issued paper receipts which were good for gold. However, they realised that they could issue more receipts than gold because no one would bother to cash it in all at once, and thus the robbery became normalised in practice and spread across the guild system to become the banking system we have today.

Though it is truly theft, we all use it and accept it because it exists and has always existed.

Today both the US and England have reserve systems which control the supply of currency. The fractional reserve system, enables those who hold the bonds on these "banks" (look up the names, I guarantee you won't be surprised) to profit 110% off of the wealth of the nations they "serve" as they are allowed to issue currency ten times that of the "gold" they allegedly are holding.

This creates a system where the notes that you hold are devalued so that their wealth increases.

In order to retain this wealth bondholders must eschew all attempts at competing currencies. I could make a list of successful competing currencies but I believe I'll save that for another time as I think that I just wrote all this for nothing.

If anyone's interested I'll continue.

I agree Paperback Writer that this is exactly what Jesus was fighting against. In his entire history of rabbinic teachings never once did he espouse violence, quite the opposite and yet the took the money changers to task with violence, in such contrast.

It should be a warning to us as Christians (I know you are not, but I am).

[Bob]

If money changers is all some of you got from his OP, please return to his post to find my commentary on post 66 that addresses his salient points. It was far more than money changers.

[Chloe]

If money changers is all some of you got from his OP, please return to his post to find my commentary on post 66 that addresses his salient points. It was far more than money changers.
Bob do you have an opinion on post #100?

[Bob]

Since PW is being quoted, by all means I will also and include the topic and context one more time.

Post 66 repeated. Please engage where needed in the topic and to the points made by both PW and Bob.

Thank you all.

Let me try to benefit PW's discussion.

PW says (It is not needed to discuss Jesus, temples and removing bankers from said temples.

However going back to this.


Paperback Writer

This practice of currency monopoly and manipulation did not stop with the ancients. In my country the goldsmiths were the earliest bankers. They both minted coins and held them for those who were fearful to lose their coins to robbers and bandits. Taking a nod from the Chinese warlords, these goldsmiths issued paper receipts which were good for gold. However, they realised that they could issue more receipts than gold because no one would bother to cash it in all at once, and thus the robbery became normalised in practice and spread across the guild system to become the banking system we have today.

Though it is truly theft, we all use it and accept it because it exists and has always existed.

Today both the US and England have reserve systems which control the supply of currency. The fractional reserve system, enables those who hold the bonds on these "banks" (look up the names, I guarantee you won't be surprised) to profit 110% off of the wealth of the nations they "serve" as they are allowed to issue currency ten times that of the "gold" they allegedly are holding.

This creates a system where the notes that you hold are devalued so that their wealth increases.

In order to retain this wealth bondholders must eschew all attempts at competing currencies. I could make a list of successful competing currencies but I believe I'll save that for another time as I think that I just wrote all this for nothing.

If anyone's interested I'll continue.


PW: This practice of currency monopoly and manipulation

Bob: Someone must do it, but if you think not, who then will ensure value in currency? As to manipulation, there is no mystery. All over the globe, various experts in money determine the exchange value so we can use dollars to buy products in Russia that sell for Rubles. We can buy from Japan when they use Yen.

PW: these goldsmiths issued paper receipts which were good for gold.

Bob: Since miners first obtained and owned gold, it was up to them to decide if paper was suitable. Paper though as good as gold, yup, when you buy and sell gold, you don't get more gold or silver, you get what? Paper or credit.

I have bought and sold gold. When you sell it, it is discounted so you get less real cash than the alleged value of gold. When they sell gold, they are guaranteed a profit.

PW:However, they realised that they could issue more receipts than gold because no one would bother to cash it in all at once, and thus the robbery became normalised in practice and spread across the guild system to become the banking system we have today.

Bob... I refuse to argue that because at some point fractional banking was invented and there is no decent purpose to arguing over this or that.

I believe most of us engaged with bankers understand they must pay wages, overhead and other expenses, so when they pay us 1 percent on deposits, they must fully use any tool they have to both,

Keep us interested in using them
Make cash available to us in the course of business where we pay a premium, called interest, to borrow said cash. If they fail to run a bank right, they fail.

Banks have failed and the public lost interest or faith in the banks. They stiff us all at their peril.

To call them robbers can only be proven by the public accounting Banks must do for their stockholders and even depositors so wishing bank, statements to show their full accounting.

PW: However, they realised that they could issue more receipts than gold because no one would bother to cash it in all at once, and thus the robbery became normalised in practice and spread across the guild system to become the banking system we have today.

Governments globally approve this. A lot goes wrong when Government gets involved. I would love to see more blame on government.

I believe I covered almost all of your salient points. As to your final point, a lot of it hits the fan and we are naturally in the way of it.

[Alyosha]

I'm quoting PBW and responding to him. You're now spamming the thread with your response that none of us want to read or comment on. If we did we would have done so.

We're commenting on his.

[Bob]

@Bob (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1013) do you have an opinion on post #100?

Well, it shorts what PW actually said. He did mention that but his post was a lot longer. I gave my views several times and to PW. I asked others to join and stick to the topic before you spent time trying to get this topic fixed.

I agree with post 100 but as I said, there is so much more richness to PW's comments.

[Alyosha]

Matthew 21:12-13

And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves. And He said to them, "It is written, 'MY HOUSE SHALL BE CALLED A HOUSE OF PRAYER'; but you are making it a ROBBERS' DEN."…

John 2:14-15

In the temple courts he found people selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.


Why would a pacifist become so angry that he overturned tables and chased these men out of the Temple grounds with a rope? Why would he call them robbers?


Temple taxes were paid in gold coins with no images upon them, they were called "half shekelshekels". Because the Romans demanded their tax be in the Roman currency the Jews could not use their normal coinage to go to Temple, therefore they needed to change that currency into the "half shekelshekels". Because that currency was in a limited supply it was a seller's market. Their monopoly on coinage of this allowed them to raise the cost to whatever the market would bear, which was a lot as Jews could not enter the Temple without paying the tax, could not participate as Jews without attending Temple, and therefore were at the mercy of these robbers who took a religious obligation and profited off it mercilessly.

This practice of currency monopoly and manipulation did not stop with the ancients. In my country the goldsmiths were the earliest bankers. They both minted coins and held them for those who were fearful to lose their coins to robbers and bandits. Taking a nod from the Chinese warlords, these goldsmiths issued paper receipts which were good for gold. However, they realised that they could issue more receipts than gold because no one would bother to cash it in all at once, and thus the robbery became normalised in practice and spread across the guild system to become the banking system we have today.

Though it is truly theft, we all use it and accept it because it exists and has always existed.

Today both the US and England have reserve systems which control the supply of currency. The fractional reserve system, enables those who hold the bonds on these "banks" (look up the names, I guarantee you won't be surprised) to profit 110% off of the wealth of the nations they "serve" as they are allowed to issue currency ten times that of the "gold" they allegedly are holding.

This creates a system where the notes that you hold are devalued so that their wealth increases.

In order to retain this wealth bondholders must eschew all attempts at competing currencies. I could make a list of successful competing currencies but I believe I'll save that for another time as I think that I just wrote all this for nothing.

If anyone's interested I'll continue.

Can you, Paperback Writer as in Paperback Writer, as in I'm addressing Paperback Writer, explain more about the bond system as you, Paperback Writer understand it since I know what your father does for a living.

[Chloe]

Well, it shorts what PW actually said. He did mention that but his post was a lot longer. I gave my views several times and to PW. I asked others to join and stick to the topic before you spent time trying to get this topic fixed.

I agree with post 100 but as I said, there is so much more richness to PW's comments.

ok thanks but keep in mind that at the moment nobody wants to discuss the discussion you posted but they are talking about post #100. Maybe that's where the topic should go right now until others join in. What do you think?

[Bob]

I'm quoting PBW and responding to him. You're now spamming the thread with your response that none of us want to read or comment on. If we did we would have done so.

We're commenting on his.

It seemed to me that since I quoted him, I am commenting on his. Others decided I am the topic.

I assure all of you, I am not the topic.

[Peter1469]

Notice: Don't respond to Bob in this thread. He has been thread banned.

All, get back on topic please.

[Alyosha]

Back on topic, the world has not changed since the Lehman crisis and the debt has actually jumped from 9 trillion to 23 trillion. Right now, the western nations under the US Federal Reserve and the Bank of England have printed too much currency, and China is no better.

None of this bodes well for the American middle class and I'm just preparing with a purchase of land, resources, and other "currency" that will matter should the house of cards they built collapse.

[Green Arrow]

Back on topic, the world has not changed since the Lehman crisis and the debt has actually jumped from 9 trillion to 23 trillion. Right now, the western nations under the US Federal Reserve and the Bank of England have printed too much currency, and China is no better.

None of this bodes well for the American middle class and I'm just preparing with a purchase of land, resources, and other "currency" that will matter should the house of cards they built collapse.

That is all that will matter in the collapse, really.

[Alyosha]

I hesitate to raise the issue because of my nationality, since everything thinks I'm loyal to Russia, but George Soros has had a great deal to do with the Ukraine being invited to the EU table and her last election. He was the first to scare us about Russian influence in the Baltics, the first to suggest we open up our oil reserves "because Russia", etc.

He is a currency investor, he was involved the bondholders of the private oil companies that Putin took back over, and is closely associated with Rothschild banking...and Obama.

[The Xl]

No but it means you hate to answer actual good questions.

Ask a good question and it will be answered.

Well, I guess that's impossible, especially with your TB.

[iustitia]

I hesitate to raise the issue because of my nationality, since everything thinks I'm loyal to Russia, but George Soros has had a great deal to do with the Ukraine being invited to the EU table and her last election. He was the first to scare us about Russian influence in the Baltics, the first to suggest we open up our oil reserves "because Russia", etc.

He is a currency investor, he was involved the bondholders of the private oil companies that Putin took back over, and is closely associated with Rothschild banking...and Obama.

The influence of banks is behind all our conflicts. Beyond economic hegemony there is no reason for conflict with Russia.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/1970/01/murray-n-rothbard/wall-street-wars/

[Alyosha]

Soros also helped to last minute ruin Scotland's bid for independence with his currency crisis fear-mongering. It's funny that he was one of the few bankers called out by Stanley Kubrick in his Eyes Wide Shut, or not funny depending upon how you view it.

We need competing currencies and the only way to get around the system since they are already regulating bitcoin (I know, I know Ethereal)
is barter and trade. Yes, you have to declare it but they have to prove you actually did it.

[The Xl]

We either need a competing currency or a government currency that is actually issued by the government, not created out of debt, and not manipulated by private hands. The latter will never happen, probably, as the moneychangers have had their roots in government for so long.

[Green Arrow]

Soros also helped to last minute ruin Scotland's bid for independence with his currency crisis fear-mongering. It's funny that he was one of the few bankers called out by Stanley Kubrick in his Eyes Wide Shut, or not funny depending upon how you view it.

We need competing currencies and the only way to get around the system since they are already regulating bitcoin (I know, I know @Ethereal (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=870))
is barter and trade. Yes, you have to declare it but they have to prove you actually did it.

Bitcoin isn't physical currency tho, right?

[Animal Mother]

I'm not sure how I feel about bitcoin. It's good for now but in the event you have a collapse that's gone and to get in you really have to spend fiat money. Mining just isn't lucrative anymore.

[Paperback Writer]

Bitcoin is currency, but I'm not certain if it is the right currency for me. I see more and more businesses accepting it, but many of those are businesses who are complying with regulations and doesn't that obscure the whole point of it?
Ethereal you're our resident expert, your opine, please?

[Calypso Jones]

I've never denied anyone the right to speak...not like some have. I merely asked a question. And it wasn't even addressed to the complainer. Perhaps some posters ought to let their compatriots fight their own battles...unless they are incapable.

[Paperback Writer]

I've never denied anyone the right to speak...not like some have. I merely asked a question. And it wasn't even addressed to the complainer. Perhaps some posters ought to let their compatriots fight their own battles...unless they are incapable.

No one was denied the right to speak. Someone spoke and went off topic and stayed off topic in spite of what appears to be several attempts to force him back on topic.

The rules of this forum state that you're to keep to the thread topic, do they not? What happens when someone breaks a rule on your forum? I'll tell you what, their VIP status is removed, readded, removed and then they're IP banned. Not sure this faux affront has teeth all things considered.

[Chloe]

I've never denied anyone the right to speak...not like some have. I merely asked a question. And it wasn't even addressed to the complainer. Perhaps some posters ought to let their compatriots fight their own battles...unless they are incapable.

Things were calming down and getting back on topic. Derailing the thread with a complaint that has nothing to do with the topic and/or responding to this warning will both result in a thread ban. Thank you.

[Ethereal]

Bitcoin is currency, but I'm not certain if it is the right currency for me. I see more and more businesses accepting it, but many of those are businesses who are complying with regulations and doesn't that obscure the whole point of it?
@Ethereal (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=870) you're our resident expert, your opine, please?

For the digital monetary system as a whole, mainstream acceptance of the bitcoin protocol is a good thing. Once people are familiar with the protocol, then it can be abstracted into many other areas of commerce and law.

[Alyosha]

I like competing currency but I think that the Cody Wilson "dark wallet" and dark web will be a hassle for someone like me, tbh. I hate technology so fucking much that it won't be worth the trouble.

[Animal Mother]

The shareholders of the federal reserve each get 6% dividend before they declare profit. 6%. Dicks.