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Alyosha
12-01-2014, 12:23 PM
Interesting article on Politico from a retired police officer that only Democrats and libertarians will read.

This is interesting as to how partisan the forum is on these things:

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/10/the-police-are-still-out-of-control-112160.html#ixzz3Kem1B3PE


I had refused to take bribes and had testified against my fellow officers. Police make up a peculiar subculture in society. More often than not they have their own moral code of behavior, an “us against them” attitude, enforced by a Blue Wall of Silence. It’s their version of the Mafia’s omerta. Speak out, and you’re no longer “one of us.” You’re one of “them.” And as James Fyfe, a nationally recognized expert on the use of force, wrote in his 1993 book about this issue, Above The Law, officers who break the code sometimes won’t be helped in emergency situations, as I wasn’t.

<SNIP>

And today the Blue Wall of Silence endures in towns and cities across America. Whistleblowers in police departments — or as I like to call them, “lamp lighters,” after Paul Revere — are still turned into permanent pariahs. The complaint I continue to hear is that when they try to bring injustice to light they are told by government officials: “We can’t afford a scandal; it would undermine public confidence in our police.” That confidence, I dare say, is already seriously undermined.


<SNIP>


But an even more serious problem — police violence — has probably grown worse, and it’s out of control for the same reason that graft once was: a lack of accountability.

<SNIP>


Today the combination of an excess of deadly force and near-total lack of accountability is more dangerous than ever: Most cops today can pull out their weapons and fire without fear that anything will happen to them, even if they shoot someone wrongfully. All a police officer has to say is that he believes his life was in danger, and he’s typically absolved. What do you think that does to their psychology as they patrol the streets—this sense of invulnerability? The famous old saying still applies: Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.



Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/10/the-police-are-still-out-of-control-112160_Page2.html#ixzz3KfT1r0uP




Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/10/the-police-are-still-out-of-control-112160.html#ixzz3KfSOXXdx

Cigar
12-01-2014, 12:37 PM
Interesting: Remember when the NRA came out and said that if Mike Brown had a gun, he'd be alive today?

... me neither.

Alyosha
12-01-2014, 12:39 PM
Interesting: Remember when the NRA came out and said that if Mike Brown had a gun, he'd be alive today?

... me neither.

Not really sure what that has to do with this, but ok.

Chris
12-01-2014, 12:51 PM
I have trouble with topics like this, I'm conflicted. On the one hand I've known police officers all my life, personally, and while there are bad cops, most are good. OTOH, I don't think it's so much the individual cops changing as the institution of policing, it's becoming more and more militarized, more violent, more against the people than their protectors, and individual cops get swept up in it.

Alyosha
12-01-2014, 12:54 PM
I have trouble with topics like this, I'm conflicted. On the one hand I've known police officers all my life, personally, and while there are bad cops, most are good. OTOH, I don't think it's so much the individual cops changing as the institution of policing, it's becoming more and more militarized, more violent, more against the people than their protectors, and individual cops get swept up in it.

A lot of it has to do with the size of the force, that culture, union etc.

Like saying my small town Sheriff is the standard for all cops is just a wrong assumption. He polices a wide area with lots of trees and one deputy. He's awesome and I like him. In Detroit cops were dirty as hell. They'd beat your ass but they'd also take money not to arrest you.

In New York it was very much like he describes. I knew plenty of good cops, but they would get in trouble with the other guys for not towing the line.

Ravens Fan
12-01-2014, 12:55 PM
Very good article.

Matty
12-01-2014, 12:55 PM
Never fear Chris. Congress is fixing to write some strongly worded legislation which will neuter these evil asswipe cops!

Alyosha
12-01-2014, 12:56 PM
I hear we're going to strip them naked and give them spitballs.

Matty
12-01-2014, 12:57 PM
That's what we need to do! So we can stop the bitching. Make little tiny foam balls!

Alyosha
12-01-2014, 01:03 PM
That's what we need to do! So we can stop the bitching. Make little tiny foam balls!

I am glad, all seriousness, that you've had great experiences. My first was being hit in the face repeatedly by a cop with a tightly rolled newspaper because at 12 I didn't speak the language well and couldn't answer their questions fast enough.

My next "experience" was watching cops shake kids down who had pot. The ones who had pot but money, they let go and the others were arrested.

My next experience was watching a 12 year old kid in my neighborhood get shot and then waiting 20 minutes for the police to arrive and by that time he was already taken to the hospital and there was no crime scene to investigate, meanwhile the response times in Grosse Pointe were 5 minutes.

My next experience was watching cops plant heroin on a friend of mine so that he would "talk", ie make something up about someone that they wanted to arrest.

My first NICE police experience was when I was in a white college town where I did ride alongs for my criminal justice class and saw very nice, respectful, kind police officers.


We all speak from our experiences Matalese you have more good than bad. Mine are half and half. I think about the bad half and think what can we do to keep that type of behavior from happening because the good cop will be fine either way.

Matty
12-01-2014, 01:08 PM
I am glad, all seriousness, that you've had great experiences. My first was being hit in the face repeatedly by a cop with a tightly rolled newspaper because at 12 I didn't speak the language well and couldn't answer their questions fast enough.

My next "experience" was watching cops shake kids down who had pot. The ones who had pot but money, they let go and the others were arrested.

My next experience was watching a 12 year old kid in my neighborhood get shot and then waiting 20 minutes for the police to arrive and by that time he was already taken to the hospital and there was no crime scene to investigate, meanwhile the response times in Grosse Pointe were 5 minutes.

My next experience was watching cops plant heroin on a friend of mine so that he would "talk", ie make something up about someone that they wanted to arrest.

My first NICE police experience was when I was in a white college town where I did ride alongs for my criminal justice class and saw very nice, respectful, kind police officers.


We all speak from our experiences @Matalese (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=796) you have more good than bad. Mine are half and half. I think about the bad half and think what can we do to keep that type of behavior from happening because the good cop will be fine either way.


I know this. I have said many times I know that there are bad cops! That has been proven. My beef is with the demonization of cops, it is becoming a national past time. I would no more let any of my relatives ever even think of becoming a cop or a soldier! Both are thankless tasks. The nation mourns neither, and the criminals get the sympathy. It is what it is!

Bob
12-01-2014, 01:19 PM
Do you see the Moderators bad mouthing other moderators on this forum?

This could give you a tip why cops support each other.

My Son in law got back from vacation Sunday and I talked to my daughter for most of an hour. They knew of both killings, Brown and the kid in Cleveland.

My daughter told me her husband, a no longer cop, supports the cops.

Let me tell you a bit about my son in law.
Republican
Christian devoted to family
Attends a non-denomination church regularly.
Two sons and both are not only awesome because I say so, but they really are. One will attend Cal Poly to end up a designer of space vehicles as an engineer. The younger one is only in the 7th grade so naturally he has no career in mind but gets top grades as his older brother always has.

Randy knows most of the details about both killings.

The press inflamed the issue by stating the kid in Cleveland died at the hands of cops who were not told of a possible toy gun. This is standard since nobody knew for sure if the gun was real or a toy. Thinkiing it was a toy would perhaps get the cops to not show up for one thing. Thinking it is a toy might get them killed.

I was told by her that crooks are already taking real guns and putting orange stickers on them to fool cops.

As to the idea of staying well away, bullets travel super fast so even if the cops are 200 feet away, a good marksman can easily kill them. Cops make decisions daily. Some they regret. Some causes lives to be saved.

This making out Wilson to be a bad guy is over the top. Some of a cops job is to evaluate, decide and take action. Action not taken in seconds can not only end up with a dead cop, but maybe a lot of civilians also dead. Brown was to most people a giant. Very tall and very strong. De La Salle high school has boys like him and they are very outstanding football players. They are not only fast, but very tough. They are also a clean playing football team.

Brown I believe also had played football in high school. Some kids are very dirty football players.

I am 5-11. At my high school, on my football team, we had a guy, now dead, Tony Del Rio. His uncle currently is a coach for Denver Broncos. Jack Del Rio of the past Head coaching job at Jacksonville, of course knew Tony when he was a child. I decided to not play football in my senior year. Word got to me that the team upon learning this was very upset. They figured we might have a chance to do well but according to them, without me, they lost a bit of hope. I played in the backfield.

OK, get to the point bob.

Tony caught up to me early in the Fall when school opened and grabbed me hard by my chest area, my clothes. He yanked me up off the ground and demanded to know why I did not play on the team. Naturally with my feet half a foot off the ground, i muttered why. He set me down. Tony and the Brown boy were about the same size. Tony however was maybe 260 where Brown was 292. My entire point is until some 292 pound dude yanks you up, you can only try to imagine how powerful they are if they have played sports.

Jack Del Rio the coach could more than likely knock most of the men here, if not all of us, on our butts in no time. I saw him play in high school. His father and I were team mates on the football team. His dad and I are about the same size. I know Jack Del Rio is about 6-4 and he is less than 292 pounds. I believe he would be more like his uncle Tony at around 240-250. We can check that using google.

Cops jobs rarely get them thanked. Even victims are too upset or angry and are not in the mood to thank anybody. Maybe a woman got beat up and the cop had to deal with her raging husband or boyfriend.

I hope you thank cops more than you hate them.

Here you can find out more about Jack Del Rio.

On the team, we had 3 brothers active when I played. We had Dave, and Jack, father of this Jack on the Broncos. My freshman year we had the oldest Del Rio who was I think 6-6 and the brother of Tony.

Tony and Richard Del Rio were very powerful. Dave and Jack were my build. I am a bit surprised Jack of my size had such a large son. Tony actually could pick up a grown man, like Officer Wilson and toss him at a tree. I am serious. Tony did that in Castro Valley and broke a guys back against a tree.

Link to Jack Del Rio

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Del_Rio

Bob
12-01-2014, 01:35 PM
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Alyosha http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=860147#post860147)
I am glad, all seriousness, that you've had great experiences.

My next experience was watching cops plant heroin on a friend of mine so that he would "talk", ie make something up about someone that they wanted to arrest.


Ray worked at a gas station in Hayward, CA and we became buddies. I was then at the telephone company and got off work that day around 11pm. I drove to the station to pick up gasoline and noticed some guy at the place the money was then kept, that only the attendant had the key to. This was around 1957 and station security was not like today. i myself had worked at that same gas station prior to the telephone company so I knew company procedure very well.

I parked and asked the guy at the cash box, (it was on a steel pole and made of heavy metal with a key lock) where Ray was. Had he said he was a new hire, I probably would have drove off. But he told me Ray had gone to buy some hamburgers. Ray never violated company policy and you were not allowed to go get fast food. One attendant at a time was there in that late shift.

That made me very suspicious. I am not stupid so perhaps if he had a gun, I played it cool. I started checking out the gas station premises looking for Ray. Ray was then locked up and tied up in the women's rest room. I checked only the mens.

Suddenly a car pulled up by the street corner and this guy I talked too ran to the car. I ran to get the license plate number. I called the cops and they started rolling up maybe in 5 minutes or so.

I had heard a loud bang noise when checking and told the cops. Ray was then located in the womens toilet area in the stall of the toilet. He was seriously scared.

Skip to later after the cops caught one of the crooks, the guy I saw.

We are assembled at the Hayward police station and the cops are talking to the crook. They ask Ray to sign the 20 dollar bills they got from the crook. The story was that Ray had always signed them and he was to simply look over the money and exclaim to the cops as they showed Ray the cash in front of the crook, Hey, there is a twenty i signed. And look, here is one more, etc.

At that point, the crook looks at Ray and says, Hey man, did I scare you?

Ray then almost exploded but the cops held him back. Something snapped and Ray let his anger show.

So, cops do tamper with evidence. But this time, a crook went to jail. I was warned on the street later that were I spotted by his pal that never got caught, the car driver, I was to be executed. I survived. LOL

Alyosha
12-01-2014, 01:51 PM
I know this. I have said many times I know that there are bad cops! That has been proven. My beef is with the demonization of cops, it is becoming a national past time. I would no more let any of my relatives ever even think of becoming a cop or a soldier! Both are thankless tasks. The nation mourns neither, and the criminals get the sympathy. It is what it is!

I don't know that I believe that the criminals get sympathy. Everyone hated Ted Bundy, had Brown gotten arrested instead they'd dislike him, and when pedophiles get caught people cheer.

When police die they get huge funerals and people have a wake for them. I have said this before, I only mourn for people I personally know. I don't even pretend to feel more than the offhand sadness because it's not there. I am sad in that moment and then its gone. Like the ASPCA commercials, I'm sad watching, I send money and then I don't think about the dogs after.

If were mourned for everyone who died we'd never get anything done, so our bodies don't let us.

I will say this about the case. I don't think Wilson should have been indicted for murder because I don't think he did. I think he made the wrong decision because Brown was already shot and bleeding and I don't believe that he would have had his life in danger.

I'm ambivalent about the case. The people who want to string Wilson up for murder couldn't police a day much less hit the streets constantly, but at the same time @Matalese (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=796) I don't like his style of policing.

I think he should have been relieved of street duty and put behind a desk, not charged with murder.

Murder, for the forum, requires MOTIVE and INTENT.

Alyosha
12-01-2014, 02:01 PM
From the article


In some ways, matters have gotten even worse. The gulf between the police and the communities they serve has grown wider. Mind you, I don’t want to say that police shouldn’t protect themselves and have access to the best equipment. Police officers have the right to defend themselves with maximum force, in cases where, say, they are taking on a barricaded felon armed with an assault weapon. But when you are dealing every day with civilians walking the streets, and you bring in armored vehicles and automatic weapons, it’s all out of proportion. It makes you feel like you’re dealing with some kind of subversive enemy. The automatic weapons and bulletproof vest may protect the officer, but they also insulate him from the very society he’s sworn to protect. All that firepower and armor puts an even greater wall between the police and society, and solidifies that “us-versus-them” feeling.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/10/the-police-are-still-out-of-control-112160_Page2.html#ixzz3KfrqQncQ

Calypso Jones
12-01-2014, 02:36 PM
might be a good idea to actually read the grand jury report. The man did nothing. The gentle giant did not have his hands up, he was not surrendering, he was not a good guy and he already had quite a juvenile offender record. He would have killed that officer and not a one of you would have had a thing to say because the media would not have had a thing to say.

You know what...lives matter. The lives of people doing the right thing, minding their own business and not destroying the property and lives of other people.

Bob
12-01-2014, 02:42 PM
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Alyosha
I think he should have been relieved of street duty and put behind a desk, not charged with murder.

My son in law got injured in the line of his duty while riding in a city car. He found out about desk jobs. But he told me each desk job could only last 3 years.

Once he got hurt, his desk job was as a Detective and the next was running the department's scheduling system for vacations and probably more. Anyway, when he finished that 3 years, he was told he had to retire due to the problem of the auto accident injury. I learned last night that he has to have a new knee put in which can't be done until his blocked heart arteries are taken care of.

Alyosha
12-01-2014, 02:44 PM
might be a good idea to actually read the grand jury report. The man did nothing. The gentle giant did not have his hands up, he was not surrendering, he was not a good guy and he already had quite a juvenile offender record. He would have killed that officer and not a one of you would have had a thing to say because the media would not have had a thing to say.

You know what...lives matter. The lives of people doing the right thing, minding their own business and not destroying the property and lives of other people.

Believe it or not, this thread has nothing to do with Officer Wilson in particular and we should keep it that way. It's about the police code of silence which he knows about firsthand and police militarization.

Bob
12-01-2014, 02:46 PM
Believe it or not, this thread has nothing to do with Officer Wilson in particular and we should keep it that way. It's about the police code of silence which he knows about firsthand and police militarization.

If it is about militarization, just what has the department got that is military?

A vehicle? Those are also command vehicles.

Alyosha
12-01-2014, 02:49 PM
If it is about militarization, just what has the department got that is military?

A vehicle? Those are also command vehicles.

Cthulhu
Codename Section
Peter1469
Ethereal
Animal Mother

can you list the military grade equipment for Bob? If I do it then you'll read stuff like: that gun with the weird thingy, that vehicle with the big thingy

Thanks.

Bob
12-01-2014, 03:08 PM
In some ways, matters have gotten even worse. The gulf between the police and the communities they serve has grown wider. Mind you, I don’t want to say that police shouldn’t protect themselves and have access to the best equipment. Police officers have the right to defend themselves with maximum force, in cases where, say, they are taking on a barricaded felon armed with an assault weapon. But when you are dealing every day with civilians walking the streets, and you bring in armored vehicles and automatic weapons, it’s all out of proportion. It makes you feel like you’re dealing with some kind of subversive enemy. The automatic weapons and bulletproof vest may protect the officer, but they also insulate him from the very society he’s sworn to protect. All that firepower and armor puts an even greater wall between the police and society, and solidifies that “us-versus-them” feeling.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...#ixzz3KfrqQncQ (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/10/the-police-are-still-out-of-control-112160_Page2.html#ixzz3KfrqQncQ)


This is the opinion of some writer.

I suppose we need to dress cops up in bunny suits or maybe shorts and a beanie cap.

If people wish to study those military type vehicles, they need to really learn the vehicle.

I can describe our Armored personnel carriers circa 1965. They had aluminum armor of all things. The entire vehicle was built of aluminum. It might have deflected a bullet but it was not bullet proof. A 30.06 might take out a person riding in it.

While modern armor probably is different, steel armor is very heavy. A lot of whining was done over the HUMVEE which was not armored. They are not fighting vehicles as such. A tank is. The MRAPS are designed to ward off those explosives buried in roads. The cure for that is simply more high explosives. The more you armor, the more explosives it takes. Rumsfeld got blasted over so called unarmored vehicles but they come factory made with none. Guy were attaching armor plate which then made the Humvee very heavy and in ways, more dangerous. It presented itself as able to ward off the enemy yet the enemy was using roadside bombs and of course just used larger and larger bombs.

I question the nature of police armored vehicles. I have never been inside one so can't do much judging.

I expect them to have some fancy radios good for cops on the cop frequencies. If cops can ride to a potential riot safely in them and have Kevlar body armor, at least we can save more cops lives.

There is nothing standing in the way of rioters showing up with automatic weapons of their own.

Bob
12-01-2014, 03:10 PM
@Cthulhu (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=872)
@Codename Section (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=866)
@Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10)
@Ethereal (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=870)
@Animal Mother (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1166)

can you list the military grade equipment for Bob? If I do it then you'll read stuff like: that gun with the weird thingy, that vehicle with the big thingy

Thanks.

Can you ask cops to supply me with the list. I know what the Military uses.

Alyosha
12-01-2014, 03:26 PM
Can you ask cops to supply me with the list. I know what the Military uses.

I was going to supply them with the list of what cops you and they can tell you what the military uses. Or you can go to the ACLU website and read about it. Rand Paul is also sponsoring a bill to restrict that equipment so there's Rand's Senate page, as well.

Alyosha
12-01-2014, 03:27 PM
This is the opinion of some writer.

It's the opinion of a former police officer in his own words. You keep posting "for" your SIL should we tell you to shut up or ask that you make him sign online and post his opinion himself?

You can take his experience of leave it.

Cthulhu
12-01-2014, 03:29 PM
Can you ask cops to supply me with the list. I know what the Military uses.

MRAPs and drones for starters. Stuff they have no business using given their training and discipline.

When I see pictures of MRAPs with turrets rolling around the streets - it is a bad sign. It is social conditioning.

Alyosha
12-01-2014, 03:38 PM
MRAPs and drones for starters. Stuff they have no business using given their training and discipline.

When I see pictures of MRAPs with turrets rolling around the streets - it is a bad sign. It is social conditioning.

Drew said that one department bought a 50 cal but now they have to give it back. :(

Peter1469
12-01-2014, 03:40 PM
We posted a couple of articles on this a while back. I will look for them. It is a lot of stuff being transferred from the military to the police.


@Cthulhu (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=872)
@Codename Section (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=866)
@Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10)
@Ethereal (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=870)
@Animal Mother (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1166)

can you list the military grade equipment for Bob? If I do it then you'll read stuff like: that gun with the weird thingy, that vehicle with the big thingy

Thanks.

Peter1469
12-01-2014, 04:12 PM
@Cthulhu (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=872)
@Codename Section (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=866)
@Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10)
@Ethereal (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=870)
@Animal Mother (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1166)

can you list the military grade equipment for Bob? If I do it then you'll read stuff like: that gun with the weird thingy, that vehicle with the big thingy

Thanks.

Here is one of the articles posted before. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/08/14/the-pentagon-gave-nearly-half-a-billion-dollars-of-military-gear-to-local-law-enforcement-last-year/)


The program provides things like office equipment, tents, generators, pick-up trucks and ATVs, according to a PowerPoint presentation on its website (http://www.dispositionservices.dla.mil/leso/Pages/1033ProgramFAQs.aspx). But law enforcement agencies can also use it to obtain military aircraft (http://www.dispositionservices.dla.mil/leso/Pages/Aircraft.aspx), weapons (http://www.dispositionservices.dla.mil/leso/Pages/Weapons.aspx) (including grenade launchers), and heavily armored tactical vehicles (http://www.dispositionservices.dla.mil/leso/Pages/Vehicles.aspx). You can see an example of one of these vehicles below, pictured in Ferguson (although it's unclear if local law enforcement there received the vehicle through the DOD program).




Law enforcement agencies can browse online (http://www.dispositionservices.dla.mil/leso/Pages/PropertySearch.aspx) to obtain small arms and other materials. Getting an armored personnel carrier is slightly more complicated, requiring the completion of a one-page request form (http://www.dispositionservices.dla.mil/leso/Documents/LESO%20Forms/vehiclerequest.pdf)in which you can indicate your preference for a vehicle that has either wheels or tracks like a tank. "Once ordered, arrangements for pick-up or delivery must be made within 14 days," according to the website.

Alyosha
12-01-2014, 04:16 PM
I've got Bob on ignore now. It's best.

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_le7knfYWng1qd1fjko1_500.gif





Mister D I'm going to watch it again now.

Cthulhu
12-01-2014, 04:24 PM
Drew said that one department bought a 50 cal but now they have to give it back. :(

Danger Will Robinson! Danger Will Robinson!

Mister D
12-01-2014, 04:30 PM
I've got Bob on ignore now. It's best.

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_le7knfYWng1qd1fjko1_500.gif





@Mister D (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=4) I'm going to watch it again now.

When the hitman kicks Sonny's corpse in the head remains my favorite part. It's often edited out of the film depending on what network is airing it. Brutal stuff.

The Xl
12-01-2014, 04:30 PM
I don't know that I believe that the criminals get sympathy. Everyone hated Ted Bundy, had Brown gotten arrested instead they'd dislike him, and when pedophiles get caught people cheer.

When police die they get huge funerals and people have a wake for them. I have said this before, I only mourn for people I personally know. I don't even pretend to feel more than the offhand sadness because it's not there. I am sad in that moment and then its gone. Like the ASPCA commercials, I'm sad watching, I send money and then I don't think about the dogs after.

If were mourned for everyone who died we'd never get anything done, so our bodies don't let us.

I will say this about the case. I don't think Wilson should have been indicted for murder because I don't think he did. I think he made the wrong decision because Brown was already shot and bleeding and I don't believe that he would have had his life in danger.

I'm ambivalent about the case. The people who want to string Wilson up for murder couldn't police a day much less hit the streets constantly, but at the same time @Matalese (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=796) I don't like his style of policing.

I think he should have been relieved of street duty and put behind a desk, not charged with murder.

Murder, for the forum, requires MOTIVE and INTENT.

Motive was there after being upset at getting hit, intent was clear from the volume of bullets fired.

I think this is where me and you disagree, I think the kid was executed.

Alyosha
12-01-2014, 04:34 PM
Motive was there after being upset at getting hit, intent was clear from the volume of bullets fired.

I think this is where me and you disagree, I think the kid was executed.

I'll reread the witness accounts. It seemed to me to be, after reading redrose commentary, that this is just police protocol now.

I think that manslaughter or murder in the 2nd should be used for both the Ohio cases, though because they were at close range and the intent to kill was there. Murder, no, but murder in the 2nd can be accidental the way the law was written.

Cigar
12-01-2014, 04:37 PM
When the hitman kicks Sonny's corpse in the head remains my favorite part. It's often edited out of the film depending on what network is airing it. Brutal stuff.

Ahhh ... the Good Old Days when Brutal Gang Wars where Heroic and Admired and Romanced and Not Thuggish :grin:

http://www.gonemovies.com/WWW/Pictures/Pictures/Godfather14aBrasiStrangled.jpg

Can't stop watching the stuff ...

Alyosha
12-01-2014, 04:39 PM
Because people didn't eat up el Mariachi (Mexican gangsters), Pulp Fiction (black gang leader), Jackie Brown (black criminals), or Training Day....

http://media.giphy.com/media/13gaSUi5EsZ9Is/giphy.gif

Mister D
12-01-2014, 04:39 PM
Ahhh ... the Good Old Days when Brutal Gang Wars where Heroic and Admired and Romanced and Not Thuggish :grin:

http://www.gonemovies.com/WWW/Pictures/Pictures/Godfather14aBrasiStrangled.jpg

Can't stop watching the stuff ...

It's a film, Cigar. Oh, and the mob can shoot straight. :wink:

Cigar
12-01-2014, 04:40 PM
Because people didn't eat up el Mariachi (Mexican gangsters), Pulp Fiction (black gang leader), Jackie Brown (black criminals), or Training Day....

Or the really Cool Threads .... :laugh:

http://ferdyonfilms.com/GONY%201.jpg

Cigar
12-01-2014, 04:41 PM
It's a film, Cigar. Oh, and the mob can shoot straight. :wink:

We all know The Mob didn't exist ... except in the Movies ...

Step One:

Mister D
12-01-2014, 04:42 PM
And I really liked Boyz N the Hood. Menace to Society was good too. :afro:

Mister D
12-01-2014, 04:42 PM
We all know The Mob didn't exist ... except in the Movies ...

Step One:

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.

Alyosha
12-01-2014, 04:54 PM
American Gangster, one of the better made mob movies.

http://33.media.tumblr.com/ea1636bde4f68a32f6c943e7c945c025/tumblr_mj7uuhLCtM1qbtzbno3_500.gif

Cigar
12-01-2014, 05:00 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&amp;v=nEGxoJWasZY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&amp;v=NglMHrAQ9C0

Alyosha
12-01-2014, 05:06 PM
No way Cigar is New Jack City even on par with American Gangster or the Godfather.

Denzel Washington and Al Pacino are the far, far superior actors to Wesley Snipes.

Mister D
12-01-2014, 05:07 PM
New Jack was worth seeing though.

Ethereal
12-01-2014, 07:26 PM
@Cthulhu (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=872)
@Codename Section (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=866)
@Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10)
@Ethereal (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=870)
@Animal Mother (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1166)

can you list the military grade equipment for Bob?

Yea, right after I finish talking to this brick wall...