Why do people make such a big deal about shutting down the government?

[Green Arrow]

Seriously, lots of people talk about a government shutdown, like it's the end of the world and the herald of our collapse. Yet, every time a shutdown happens, the only reason anyone knows it's happening is because the media and hysterical politicians tell us it's happening. Otherwise, life continues on as normal.

[zelmo1234]

Amen Brother. Amen

[Chris]

Fear tactic.

[Cigar]

Seriously, lots of people talk about a government shutdown, like it's the end of the world and the herald of our collapse. Yet, every time a shutdown happens, the only reason anyone knows it's happening is because the media and hysterical politicians tell us it's happening. Otherwise, life continues on as normal.

Every time there's a Government Shutdown or Government Cut-Backs, real American People are affected.

You may never personally feel those affects, but those affects are real for someone, someplace, somehow.

Yes, life does continue as normal for most of us, but then most of us are not afforded the luxury of a Computer, the Internet and the time call Government Shutdown or Government Cut-Backs hysterical.

Sorry, but that's the bleading heart liberal in me talking.

[Peter1469]

Seriously, lots of people talk about a government shutdown, like it's the end of the world and the herald of our collapse. Yet, every time a shutdown happens, the only reason anyone knows it's happening is because the media and hysterical politicians tell us it's happening. Otherwise, life continues on as normal.

That is the biggest reason Congress is not likely to shut down. One of these times, people are going to wake up and demand that every position that was furloughed be cut since everything worked fine.

[Green Arrow]

Every time there's a Government Shutdown or Government Cut-Backs, real American People are affected.

You may never personally feel those affects, but those affects are real for someone, someplace, somehow.

Yes, life does continue as normal for most of us, but then most of us are not afforded the luxury of a Computer, the Internet and the time call Government Shutdown or Government Cut-Backs hysterical.

Who in America doesn't have a computer and the internet? Even when I was homeless, I had access to a computer and internet.

[Mac-7]

I like the idea of shutting down the government.

but I don't like the idea of paying government employes for not working.

If they are laid off for two weeks they should lose two weeks pay or two weeks vacation time.

[Cigar]

That is the biggest reason Congress is not likely to shut down. One of these times, people are going to wake up and demand that every position that was furloughed be cut since everything worked fine.

... and demand that the Job Creators Hire them, because God knows you don't want to pay them the unemployment they have been paying into or you don't want them to not look for work, because that would add to your talking points of labor participation.

:grin:

[nic34]

Unless you work for the government and need your income.

[Cigar]

I like the idea of shutting down the government.

but I don't like the idea of paying government employes for not working.

If they are laid off for two weeks they should lose two weeks pay or two weeks vacation time.

:thumbsup20: I think that should be a GOP Campaign Slogan for 2016

[Green Arrow]

Unless you work for the government and need your income.

Who in their right mind wants to work for government?

[Cigar]

Unless you work for the government and need your income.

They should try their experiments on their own jobs to see if it works :laugh:

[Cigar]

Who in their right mind wants to work for government?

Law Enforcement Officers

Ever wonder who takes care of your Shit when you flush?

[Mac-7]

Unless you work for the government and need your income.

Civilians who are overtaxed to pay for these gov employees need their income too.

[Peter1469]

... and demand that the Job Creators Hire them, because God knows you don't want to pay them the unemployment they have been paying into or you don't want them to not look for work, because that would add to your talking points of labor participation.

:grin:


Make sense please- or at least keep your topics organized. Or should the government put all unemployed people on the government payroll?

[Green Arrow]

Law Enforcement Officers

Ever wonder who takes care of your Shit when you flush?

Law enforcement officers? You mean, the same guys you talked about ending up dead in the streets by citizens unafraid to shoot back?

[Mister D]

Doesn't the machinery of the state continue to run?

[Mac-7]

Law Enforcement Officers

Ever wonder who takes care of your $#@! when you flush?

My impression is libs want to put all the cops in jail and rely on the New Black Panthers for protection.

[Chris]

Unless you work for the government and need your income.

Perhaps time to work for a wealth-generating entity rather than a wealth-consuming one?

[Green Arrow]

Doesn't the machinery of the state continue to run?

It does, but let the ignorant lads have their delusions. Government shutdowns mean the military, police, ambulances, fire departments, hospitals, and gravity all fail.

[Howey]

Seriously, lots of people talk about a government shutdown, like it's the end of the world and the herald of our collapse. Yet, every time a shutdown happens, the only reason anyone knows it's happening is because the media and hysterical politicians tell us it's happening. Otherwise, life continues on as normal.

Of course life goes on. Even as kids go without lunches, national parks are closed, air traffic is disrupted, military, retired military and elderly face non-payment of benefit checks, federal workers and their families will be left jobless and broke, and above all - The American people will continue to lose faith in a political system that was once based on compromise, checks and balances that has now been replaced by childish giveaways and cronyism.

http://i.imgur.com/N0AR2fv.jpg

[Mac-7]

Of course life goes on. Even as kids go without lunches, national parks are closed, air traffic is disrupted, military, retired military and elderly face non-payment of benefit checks, federal workers and their families will be left jobless and broke, and above all - The American people will continue to lose faith in a political system that was based on compromise, checks and balances that has now been replaced by childish giveaways and cronyism.

I'm one of the American people and my faith in government would grow if the royalty in Washington were treated like us peasants for a change.

[Cigar]

I'm one of the American people and my faith in government would grow if the royalty in Washington were treated like us peasants for a change.

I got an Idea ... once President Obama is gone, and if YOUR GOP Candidate Wins in 2016 ...

I'm totally in agreement with YOU treating YOUR Elected President and Government like peasants.

[Mac-7]

I got an Idea ... once President Obama is gone, and if YOUR GOP Candidate Wins in 2016 ...

I'm totally in agreement with YOU treating YOUR Elected President and Government like peasants.

Ok.

Starting this year limit obumer and his mooching family to one two week vacation a year and charge them the full cost.

Then that will be the law from now on.

[Chris]

It does, but let the ignorant lads have their delusions. Government shutdowns mean the military, police, ambulances, fire departments, hospitals, and gravity all fail.

http://i.snag.gy/tVUKD.jpg

[nic34]

Who in their right mind wants to work for government?

Many do, believe it or not. Regular folks like all of us.

Most are proud of their service, like those that work for NASA, National Parks/Monuments, Smithsonian, USPS and others. My dad worked for the NTSB many years and was proud of his contribution to aircraft safety.

The world is not black and white.

[Cigar]

Ok.

Starting this year limit obumer and his mooching family to one two week vacation a year and charge them the full cost.

Then that will be the law from now on.

:rollseyes: There you have it folks ... Governing GOP Style ... Penny Wise and Dollar Stupid all over Hate for a Man who kicked their ass twice fair and square.

[nic34]

Perhaps time to work for a wealth-generating entity rather than a wealth-consuming one?

Yes, definitely. And lets be sure to punish and blame the employees for the shortcomings of government bureaucracy.

[Mac-7]

:rollseyes: There you have it folks ... Governing GOP Style ... Penny Wise and Dollar Stupid all over Hate for a Man who kicked their ass twice fair and square.

Dollar stupid is lavishing millions of those dollars on a lazy golfer in chief and his non working family for vacations that ordinary Americans cannot afford for themselves.

[Mac-7]

Yes, definitely. And lets be sure to punish and blame the employees for the shortcomings of government bureaucracy.

They are the government bureaucracy.

[Chris]

Yes, definitely. And lets be sure to punish and blame the employees for the shortcomings of government bureaucracy.

No, let's blame the politicians who create the monster, nic. You seem to see what's happening, but in defending the system sit there saying it can't be helped, can't lick 'em, join 'em.

[nic34]

They are the government bureaucracy.

Wrong, WE are.

[PolWatch]

yeap, no other President in history has ever taken his family on a vacation. Why don't you chain him to the Resolute desk in the Oval Office? That way, he will have more time to create more regulations and sign more laws!

[Mac-7]

Wrong, WE are.

Who is "we?"

[Mac-7]

yeap, no other President in history has ever taken his family on a vacation. Why don't you chain him to the Resolute desk in the Oval Office? That way, he will have more time to create more regulations and sign more laws!

Ot presidents travel on vacations with the First Lady rather than taking separate jets like obumer and his estranged wife.

And in this time of economic crisis it would not hurt for obumer to spend a little less on himself while the American people are struggling just to make ends meet.

[nic34]

No, let's blame the politicians who create the monster, nic. You seem to see what's happening, but in defending the system sit there saying it can't be helped, can't lick 'em, join 'em.

Ok, let's start by shutting down elections beginning with 2016 and see what happens. Wanna bet it doesn't happen?

See, not so easy to just "lick 'em". But go on ahead, penalize the government worker first.

[Mac-7]

Ok, let's start by shutting down elections beginning with 2016 and see what happens. Wanna bet it doesn't happen?



You read his mind.

I think obumer would love to cancel the 2016 election and be golfer in chief for life.

[Chris]

Ok, let's start by shutting down elections beginning with 2016 and see what happens. Wanna bet it doesn't happen?

See, not so easy to just "lick 'em". But go on ahead, penalize the government worker first.


It's simply outside the box of your thinking, nic, it seems, to consider limiting and reducing government. You turn immediately to limiting the people, here, and elsewhere, the market. Never the government. Statism is a religion.

[Chris]

Wrong, WE are.

I don't work in government, nic.

Granted, a lot of my income goes to government in tax theft, so I suppose it could be said I do as a slave.

[PolWatch]

Are you 100% sure you don't work for the government? I wonder how many people in private industry, actually DO work for the government somewhere along the line. The government is so involved in every aspect of our lives, I bet everyone is employed by the government...even if the connection is several degrees removed!

[del]

I don't work in government, nic.

Granted, a lot of my income goes to government in tax theft, so I suppose it could be said I do as a slave.

lol

[Chris]

Are you 100% sure you don't work for the government? I wonder how many people in private industry, actually DO work for the government somewhere along the line. The government is so involved in every aspect of our lives, I bet everyone is employed by the government...even if the connection is several degrees removed!

Definitely, we all work for government inasmuch as we pay taxes.

But I don't work in government, which is where nic started before moving his goalposts.

[nic34]

Definitely, we all work for government inasmuch as we pay taxes.

But I don't work in government, which is where nic started before moving his goalposts.

I started by saying some folks depend on a paycheck from the government.

YOU moved the goalposts by blaming the cog for the existence of the clock.

[zelmo1234]

I like the idea of shutting down the government.

but I don't like the idea of paying government employes for not working.

If they are laid off for two weeks they should lose two weeks pay or two weeks vacation time.

It is worse, the draw unemployment and then the government pays them.

[zelmo1234]

... and demand that the Job Creators Hire them, because God knows you don't want to pay them the unemployment they have been paying into or you don't want them to not look for work, because that would add to your talking points of labor participation.

:grin:

If they are not needed, then they don't get to have a job and do nothing, And the private sector does hire when they need to, too bad that the government creates policies that prevent them from needing to

[PolWatch]

I used to believe I didn't work for the government...I worked at a diesel engine repair company....until I found that some of our customers (marine towing companies) actually worked on government contract and received government subsidies (transportation)...so I was actually working for the government too!

[Safety]

Seriously, lots of people talk about a government shutdown, like it's the end of the world and the herald of our collapse. Yet, every time a shutdown happens, the only reason anyone knows it's happening is because the media and hysterical politicians tell us it's happening. Otherwise, life continues on as normal.

It's the left's fear tactic, just like ebola was the right's.

[Safety]

I used to believe I didn't work for the government...I worked at a diesel engine repair company....until I found that some of our customers (marine towing companies) actually worked on government contract and received government subsidies (transportation)...so I was actually working for the government too!

Nobody likes the government, but they all want government contracts...maybe it's because you never have to worry about a bounced check....

[Chris]

I used to believe I didn't work for the government...I worked at a diesel engine repair company....until I found that some of our customers (marine towing companies) actually worked on government contract and received government subsidies (transportation)...so I was actually working for the government too!

A lot of people work for the government in that way. In the past I worked at a research facility that did contract work for the military, mainly Air Force, some Navy, and some NASA. All of that research was also done for private business.

[Peter1469]

I used to believe I didn't work for the government...I worked at a diesel engine repair company....until I found that some of our customers (marine towing companies) actually worked on government contract and received government subsidies (transportation)...so I was actually working for the government too!

I would not consider that working for the government. Sure the government and/or its contractors were your customers, but that doesn't make you an employee.

[Peter1469]

Nobody likes the government, but they all want government contracts...maybe it's because you never have to worry about a bounced check....

You would be surprised.

Also many contractors that work for the government focus on maximizing profits with little thought to anything above bare bones performance. They would not make it in the commercial marketplace. The federal regulations (federal acquisition regulations) don't help things either.

Look at the Obamacare website as one example....

[Chris]

I started by saying some folks depend on a paycheck from the government.

YOU moved the goalposts by blaming the cog for the existence of the clock.


You started here, nic: "Unless you work for the government and need your income."

That's different than contracting or paying taxes.

[Safety]

A lot of people work for the government in that way. In the past I worked at a research facility that did contract work for the military, mainly Air Force, some Navy, and some NASA.

When I got my degree, my friends and colleagues were deriding me for accepting a government job, they said I was losing out of so much money vs the private sector. After 2008, they now say I'm an asshole because I still have a job because I work for the government.....

I can't win.

[PolWatch]

My thought was we are all tied to government employment in one way or another...whether we are aware or not. When you think of how much involvement the government has in supposedly private industry, its kinda scary!

[zelmo1234]

Of course life goes on. Even as kids go without lunches, national parks are closed, air traffic is disrupted, military, retired military and elderly face non-payment of benefit checks, federal workers and their families will be left jobless and broke, and above all - The American people will continue to lose faith in a political system that was once based on compromise, checks and balances that has now been replaced by childish giveaways and cronyism.

http://i.imgur.com/N0AR2fv.jpg

Ah yes the dreaded park shut down that cost more money than to keep them open?

The elderly get their payments, so does retired military, current military does not but the get it all made up when they get things done.

there is one clear way to not see this happen and that is for the Democrats to realize that we the USE are broke and stop the foolish spending, for example 500 million to Planed Parenthood in 2014, And with the ACA you are required to have insurance and insurance is required to pay for women's health issues, including most types of birth control

That seems to be 500 million we could save if they did not donate so much of that money back to the DNC

[Peter1469]

My thought was we are all tied to government employment in one way or another...whether we are aware or not. When you think of how much involvement the government has in supposedly private industry, its kinda scary!

Well, I agree in the sense that governments are not going to disappear any time soon, absent some total financial collapse.

[nic34]

You started here, nic: "Unless you work for the government and need your income."

That's different than contracting or paying taxes.

Polwatch brought that up, not me.

http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/36164-Why-do-people-make-such-a-big-deal-about-shutting-down-the-government?p=874727&viewfull=1#post874727

[Safety]

You would be surprised.

Also many contractors that work for the government focus on maximizing profits with little thought to anything above bare bones performance. They would not make it in the commercial marketplace. The federal regulations (federal acquisition regulations) don't help things either.

Look at the Obamacare website as one example....

I guess I was talking more about the field operations, for example, replacing a roof on a facility....a contractor comes and replaces the roof, and it was a shitty job and leaks within a year...instead of making the contractor come and fix their shit, another contractor is hired to replace the roof again.

[zelmo1234]

:rollseyes: There you have it folks ... Governing GOP Style ... Penny Wise and Dollar Stupid all over Hate for a Man who kicked their ass twice fair and square.

I thought that he said it would be police from this time forward?

that means that the next President would have to pay for their vacations as well? Why should the people have to pay for his personal pleasure?

[zelmo1234]

Yes, definitely. And lets be sure to punish and blame the employees for the shortcomings of government bureaucracy.

No I don't think that we need to go that far, but we could freeze federal hiring and wages, until they get a balanced budget

[nic34]

Who is "we?"

All of us that use and depend on government services. And believe me, we all do.

[zelmo1234]

yeap, no other President in history has ever taken his family on a vacation. Why don't you chain him to the Resolute desk in the Oval Office? That way, he will have more time to create more regulations and sign more laws!

A agree, all Presidents in the past have abused the , Why do we need to continue this practice.

So lets make the law NOW and apply it to the next president, how about that for ending the abuse

[Chris]

All of us that use and depend on government services. And believe me, we all do.

Sounds like Obama's faux paus.

[zelmo1234]

Ok, let's start by shutting down elections beginning with 2016 and see what happens. Wanna bet it doesn't happen?

See, not so easy to just "lick 'em". But go on ahead, penalize the government worker first.

Why would we shut down one of the few things that the Federal government is mandated to do In the constitution?

Why not start with ending the Dept of Education. The quality of Education in this country has been declining ever since the Federal Government stuck it's nose into the system. Return that power and all that money back to the states, and hold them accountable for results.

That would save way more money than it cost for elections

[zelmo1234]

It's simply outside the box of your thinking, nic, it seems, to consider limiting and reducing government. You turn immediately to limiting the people, here, and elsewhere, the market. Never the government. Statism is a religion.

The agenda is for the government to provide all? What did you expect?

[Chris]

When I got my degree, my friends and colleagues were deriding me for accepting a government job, they said I was losing out of so much money vs the private sector. After 2008, they now say I'm an asshole because I still have a job because I work for the government.....

I can't win.

My initial point to nic on bureaucracy was simply that it doesn't generate wealth but only consumes it.


Nic seems to think we depend on government when it's the other way around and always has been, government depends on the people.

[zelmo1234]

Are you 100% sure you don't work for the government? I wonder how many people in private industry, actually DO work for the government somewhere along the line. The government is so involved in every aspect of our lives, I bet everyone is employed by the government...even if the connection is several degrees removed!

And you see no problem with them being involved in every aspect of your life?

That is exactly what the problem is.

[Chris]

The agenda is for the government to provide all? What did you expect?

From progressives, nothing less.

[zelmo1234]

I started by saying some folks depend on a paycheck from the government.

YOU moved the goalposts by blaming the cog for the existence of the clock.

Again so why can't we stop the bleeding.

Put a hiring Freeze on all federal agencies, if they need new people, then you transfer them from other departments

You put a wage freeze on all of them and give congress a 10% cut in pay for every year that they do not balance the budget!

[nic34]

Why would we shut down one of the few things that the Federal government is mandated to do In the constitution?

Why not start with ending the Dept of Education. The quality of Education in this country has been declining ever since the Federal Government stuck it's nose into the system. Return that power and all that money back to the states, and hold them accountable for results.

That would save way more money than it cost for elections

That would save us how much? Education is funded mostly at the state/local level.

[nic34]

Every American relies on government in a variety of ways. If you:

went to a public college or university
work for government (i.e., cops, teachers, firefighters, military, social workers, librarians, school janitors, judges, court reporters, bus drivers, etc)
borrow books from a public library
work for or own stock in a defense contractor
get your electricity or water from a government-owned utility
went to, or send your kids to, public school
ride on government-run buses, subways or light-rail
take prescription medicine whose safety and effectiveness are regulated by the Food and Drug Administration
use or work for the post office
went to college on the GI Bill, Pell Grant, state financial aid program
are retired and get Social Security payments
ever used food stamps
lived in public housing or had a Section 8 voucher
used a wheelchair ramp mandated by the Americans for Disability Act
get your health care from the Veterans Administration hospital
go boating or fishing in a government-run lake
have a job whose workplace is safer because of OSHA rules
work for a company or nonprofit organization that has a contract with the local, county, state or federal government
have a family member who depends on a government-subsidized home health care aide
pay for your medicine and medical care with Medicaid
got a tax subsidy for your mortgage interest and/or property taxes
recycle your garbage through your city's sanitation department
took a vacation in a national or state park
own a family- or corporate-owned farm that is irrigated by a government-owned dam
played baseball or soccer or used the see-saw or swings in a public park or playground
got your polio and other vaccination shots at your public school
traveled with a government-issued passport
used an elevator inspected for safety by the local building department
eat food inspected for safety by the U.S. Department of Agriculture
went to a restaurant inspected by the local Health Department
were helped by a police officer, park ranger or firefighter
have a savings account in a bank regulated by the Federal Deposit insurance Corporation
flew on an airplane inspected by the Federal Aviation Administration

[zelmo1234]

My thought was we are all tied to government employment in one way or another...whether we are aware or not. When you think of how much involvement the government has in supposedly private industry, its kinda scary!

You are correct but this is exactly what needs to stop.

For example Obama pulls the troops out of Iraq and the Democrats tell us how much money they are saving.

but they Employ Private Contractors that make in a week what a soldier makes in a year to protect there interest.

So they Cut the contactors pay to save money, We all leave because it is not worth it, and then ISIL or ISIS or what ever they want to call themselves this week and now we are rebuilding the force in Iraq.

No money saved because politics rather than sound policy ruled the day.

[zelmo1234]

All of us that use and depend on government services. And believe me, we all do.

You are again correct but the founding fathers knew that the best way to provide those services was to keep them as local as possible.

The federal government is the worse possible way to provide those services.

[zelmo1234]

Every American relies on government in a variety of ways. If you:

went to a public college or university
work for government (i.e., cops, teachers, firefighters, military, social workers, librarians, school janitors, judges, court reporters, bus drivers, etc)
borrow books from a public library
work for or own stock in a defense contractor
get your electricity or water from a government-owned utility
went to, or send your kids to, public school
ride on government-run buses, subways or light-rail
take prescription medicine whose safety and effectiveness are regulated by the Food and Drug Administration
use or work for the post office
went to college on the GI Bill, Pell Grant, state financial aid program
are retired and get Social Security payments
ever used food stamps
lived in public housing or had a Section 8 voucher
used a wheelchair ramp mandated by the Americans for Disability Act
get your health care from the Veterans Administration hospital
go boating or fishing in a government-run lake
have a job whose workplace is safer because of OSHA rules
work for a company or nonprofit organization that has a contract with the local, county, state or federal government
have a family member who depends on a government-subsidized home health care aide
pay for your medicine and medical care with Medicaid
got a tax subsidy for your mortgage interest and/or property taxes
recycle your garbage through your city's sanitation department
took a vacation in a national or state park
own a family- or corporate-owned farm that is irrigated by a government-owned dam
played baseball or soccer or used the see-saw or swings in a public park or playground
got your polio and other vaccination shots at your public school
traveled with a government-issued passport
used an elevator inspected for safety by the local building department
eat food inspected for safety by the U.S. Department of Agriculture
went to a restaurant inspected by the local Health Department
were helped by a police officer, park ranger or firefighter
have a savings account in a bank regulated by the Federal Deposit insurance Corporation
flew on an airplane inspected by the Federal Aviation Administration



How much of this could be done better and far cheaper at the local level?

[Chris]

How much of this could be done better and far cheaper at the local level?

And privately.

Just because people depend on government isn't reason to believe it's a good thing.

People depend on each other, even in the market place cooperation is the rule. That's what's important. Government replacing society, the coercive replacing the voluntary, is not a good thing.

[Chris]

Every American relies on government in a variety of ways. If you:

went to a public college or university
work for government (i.e., cops, teachers, firefighters, military, social workers, librarians, school janitors, judges, court reporters, bus drivers, etc)
borrow books from a public library
work for or own stock in a defense contractor
get your electricity or water from a government-owned utility
went to, or send your kids to, public school
ride on government-run buses, subways or light-rail
take prescription medicine whose safety and effectiveness are regulated by the Food and Drug Administration
use or work for the post office
went to college on the GI Bill, Pell Grant, state financial aid program
are retired and get Social Security payments
ever used food stamps
lived in public housing or had a Section 8 voucher
used a wheelchair ramp mandated by the Americans for Disability Act
get your health care from the Veterans Administration hospital
go boating or fishing in a government-run lake
have a job whose workplace is safer because of OSHA rules
work for a company or nonprofit organization that has a contract with the local, county, state or federal government
have a family member who depends on a government-subsidized home health care aide
pay for your medicine and medical care with Medicaid
got a tax subsidy for your mortgage interest and/or property taxes
recycle your garbage through your city's sanitation department
took a vacation in a national or state park
own a family- or corporate-owned farm that is irrigated by a government-owned dam
played baseball or soccer or used the see-saw or swings in a public park or playground
got your polio and other vaccination shots at your public school
traveled with a government-issued passport
used an elevator inspected for safety by the local building department
eat food inspected for safety by the U.S. Department of Agriculture
went to a restaurant inspected by the local Health Department
were helped by a police officer, park ranger or firefighter
have a savings account in a bank regulated by the Federal Deposit insurance Corporation
flew on an airplane inspected by the Federal Aviation Administration




Get that at Common Dreams: breaking news & views for the progressive community (http://www.commondreams.org/views/2013/06/22/hey-paul-ryan-we-all-depend-government-even-you-and-your-mom)?

Interesting, you insist we depend on government and demonstrate that by depending on a private organization.

[Cthulhu]

And privately.

Just because people depend on government isn't reason to believe it's a good thing.

People depend on each other, even in the market place cooperation is the rule. That's what's important. Government replacing society, the coercive replacing the voluntary, is not a good thing.
Mostly what I was thinking, if Walmart knew it could get more business by building a road, or a wheelchair ramp, they would.


Sent from my evil cell phone.

[Chris]

Mostly what I was thinking, if Walmart knew it could get more business by building a road, or a wheelchair ramp, they would.

Walmart, like most businesses these days, is smart enough to know it can get government to spend our money on those roads to its doors. Works because as polly argued about games, it's only pennies per person. --Of course try and pay government in pennies....

[Cthulhu]

I, like most businesses these days, is smart enough to know it can get government to spend our money on those roads to its doors. Works because as polly argued about games, it's only pennies per person. --Of course try and pay government in pennies....
In theory you should be able to.

But then there are those ignorant bastards at the Rexburg PD...


Sent from my evil cell phone.

[hanger4]

That would save us how much? Education is funded mostly at the state/local level.

So the Edu. Dept. Is useful how ?? nic34 the Edu. Dept provides what ??

[nic34]

Get that at Common Dreams: breaking news & views for the progressive community (http://www.commondreams.org/views/2013/06/22/hey-paul-ryan-we-all-depend-government-even-you-and-your-mom)?

Interesting, you insist we depend on government and demonstrate that by depending on a private organization.

Yes, a piece by Peter Dreier..... your point?

Do you believe that government and private organizations can't exist at the same time?

This is getting comical.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Every time there's a Government Shutdown or Government Cut-Backs, real American People are affected.

You may never personally feel those affects, but those affects are real for someone, someplace, somehow.

Yes, life does continue as normal for most of us, but then most of us are not afforded the luxury of a Computer, the Internet and the time call Government Shutdown or Government Cut-Backs hysterical.

Sorry, but that's the bleading heart liberal in me talking.

Maybe they should stop being so dependent on the government. I would be happy as a pig in shit not to pay $1,800 annually to the government in property taxes for being a successful American citizen if they were to shut down. The government can eat my chocolate starfish.


/Edit: Anyone who needs them and supports them taking my money to feed their gaping maw can do the same.

[Chris]

Yes, a piece by Peter Dreier..... your point?

Do you believe that government and private organizations can't exist at the same time?

This is getting comical.


Point? Credit your sources.

Agree, your question was comical. Of course they can, and they seem to thrive from the collusion.

[PolWatch]

And you see no problem with them being involved in every aspect of your life?

That is exactly what the problem is.

could you show me where I said this is a good thing? IF you had read my posts, you would have realized I was pointing out that government is involved in our lives, whether we notice it or not. I seem to recall that your income is involved with making sure the status quo is not disturbed, so I can understand why you would think this is a good thing.

[Mr. Freeze]

Yes, a piece by Peter Dreier..... your point?

Do you believe that government and private organizations can't exist at the same time?

This is getting comical.

They can exist at the same time, but at the same time all of those items listed can be produced outside of government. None of them require elite skills and all of them are mutually beneficial for corporations, as well as, private citizens. If a company needs a road to get customers or employees to its doors, it would pay for it.

Right now we're subsidizing roads for corporations. Think about that.

[zelmo1234]

could you show me where I said this is a good thing? IF you had read my posts, you would have realized I was pointing out that government is involved in our lives, whether we notice it or not. I seem to recall that your income is involved with making sure the status quo is not disturbed, so I can understand why you would think this is a good thing.

How is selling homes and providing security and distribution of Appliances, involved with that status quo?

I would like to change back to federalism not the crap that they are trying to sell in DC today

[PolWatch]

I thought you had been involved with training and providing private contractors for security work...guess that was someone else.

[zelmo1234]

I thought you had been involved with training and providing private contractors for security work...guess that was someone else.

Yes But mostly for local police forces, the military training was a long time ago. I sold that company for a boat load to a competitor some years back!

But you make a wonderful point! Why is our government paying 100 times the amount to have private contractors do the training? You see this is again part of the problem

The government is out of control. I make no apologies for them hiring me to do something that they did not feel they could do themselves. They were a customer. Just like the private companies are customers.

Is that taking Government money? Sure it is, but would I trade it for a 10% corporate tax rate? You bet I would

[nic34]

They can exist at the same time, but at the same time all of those items listed can be produced outside of government. None of them require elite skills and all of them are mutually beneficial for corporations, as well as, private citizens. If a company needs a road to get customers or employees to its doors, it would pay for it.

Right now we're subsidizing roads for corporations. Think about that.

At least we all get to use those roads.

Or would it be better if corporations built their own, then charge us toll every time we used it?

[Green Arrow]

Of course life goes on. Even as kids go without lunches, national parks are closed, air traffic is disrupted, military, retired military and elderly face non-payment of benefit checks, federal workers and their families will be left jobless and broke, and above all - The American people will continue to lose faith in a political system that was once based on compromise, checks and balances that has now been replaced by childish giveaways and cronyism.



How many planes have gone down during shutdowns?

My kids would never go without lunch.

[Peter1469]

Government employees deemed essential still work. That includes the air traffic controllers.

[Safety]

Government employees deemed essential still work. That includes the air traffic controllers.

Yea, the sucky part is, you have to work and you won't get paid until congress passes a bill. It sucks.

[Peter1469]

Yea, the sucky part is, you have to work and you won't get paid until congress passes a bill. It sucks.

And the ones that don't work get paid too. Although there is no legal requirement for that. It has never not happened.

[Safety]

And the ones that don't work get paid too. Although there is no legal requirement for that. It has never not happened.

Yea, the non-essential (admins, payroll, etc.) all pretty much get a paid vacation. However, that is not law, and it is up to congress to approve it every time.

[Howey]

And the ones that don't work get paid too. Although there is no legal requirement for that. It has never not happened.


Yea, the non-essential (admins, payroll, etc.) all pretty much get a paid vacation. However, that is not law, and it is up to congress to approve it every time.

Huh? I've got a friend who works for the Civil Service in NJ who was furloughed without pay for the entirety of the last shutdown. If you have enough accumulated leave, fine. If not, you're screwed. And those who worked did so voluntarily.

[Peter1469]

Huh? I've got a friend who works for the Civil Service in NJ who was furloughed without pay for the entirety of the last shutdown. If you have enough accumulated leave, fine. If not, you're screwed. And those who worked did so voluntarily.

Safety and I were talking about the federal level. However, DoD did furlough their civilians last year. 9-12 days or something like that.

[Common Sense]

The last government shutdown ended up costing the govt $2 billion in payroll costs of furloughed employee salaries.

Plus many other costs...

www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34680.pdf

[Chris]

The last government shutdown ended up costing the govt $2 billion in payroll costs of furloughed employee salaries.

Plus many other costs...

www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34680.pdf

Certainly how Obama and liberal progressives spun it.

But this is the broken window fallacy in reverse. That $2B that wan't spent wasn't lost, it was spent elsewhere.

[Common Sense]

Certainly how Obama and liberal progressives spun it.

But this is the broken window fallacy in reverse. That $2B that wan't spent wasn't lost, it was spent elsewhere.

It was from a report from the CRS (Congressional Research Service).

[Peter1469]

No federal employee was furloughed during the last government shutdown. Many did not work and they got paid as if they did work.

DoD sequestered many if not all of their civilian employees because of sequestration. Two different events.
The last government shutdown ended up costing the govt $2 billion in payroll costs of furloughed employee salaries.

Plus many other costs...

www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34680.pdf (http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34680.pdf)

[Peter1469]

Cost come with contracts and their expenses dealing with the shut down. Unless they are adding salaries of feds who didn't work into their numbers.

[Professor Peabody]

Seriously, lots of people talk about a government shutdown, like it's the end of the world and the herald of our collapse. Yet, every time a shutdown happens, the only reason anyone knows it's happening is because the media and hysterical politicians tell us it's happening. Otherwise, life continues on as normal.

I never noticed the difference last time.

[Peter1469]

I never noticed the difference last time.

Most won't. Because they keep a skeleton staff on.

Some people who noticed were WWII vets trying to visit the WWII memorial. Which is an open air memorial and which does not have staff and which is not roped off on federal holidays. But that was a political stuff from Obama to the American people.

[PolWatch]

Most won't. Because they keep a skeleton staff on.

Some people who noticed were WWII vets trying to visit the WWII memorial. Which is an open air memorial and which does not have staff and which is not roped off on federal holidays. But that was a political stuff from Obama to the American people.

it wasn't political when the repubs were there asking the park ranger if she wasn't ashamed to turn these poor vets away?

[Peter1469]

it wasn't political when the repubs were there asking the park ranger if she wasn't ashamed to turn these poor vets away?

The park rangers should never have roped the place off. It is never done. I can go to the WWII memorial right now. I can go at midnight. I can go on X-mass day. Same with the Lincoln Memorial. Except the gift shop and public restrooms will be locked. But I can walk around inside.

[Safety]

I never noticed the difference last time.

Really? Cause I swear there were many many threads by a poster with the same name on PF that was bitching and complaining how the monument, national parks, and the memorial were closed. I guess I was imagining things....

[PolWatch]

The park rangers should never have roped the place off. It is never done. I can go to the WWII memorial right now. I can go at midnight. I can go on X-mass day. Same with the Lincoln Memorial. Except the gift shop and public restrooms will be locked. But I can walk around inside.

I don't know about when they can be visited...but the repub giving the park ranger a hard time was there for the politics...the same reason the ropes were there...no difference.

[Peter1469]

I don't know about when they can be visited...but the repub giving the park ranger a hard time was there for the politics...the same reason the ropes were there...no difference.

The Repub was there for the cameras. Sure. The park police were there to carry out a once in a life time order based on vain politics.

[PolWatch]

sometimes I think all politicians are like Pavlov's dogs...instead of a bell, let 'em see a camera & watch 'em start to salivate.

[Peter1469]

That is true too.

[Common Sense]

I don't know about when they can be visited...but the repub giving the park ranger a hard time was there for the politics...the same reason the ropes were there...no difference.

The rationale given is that the memorials need protection as they have been vandalized before. That's why access was cut off. The orders came from congress.

[Howey]

I don't know about when they can be visited...but the repub giving the park ranger a hard time was there for the politics...the same reason the ropes were there...no difference.


The Repub was there for the cameras. Sure. The park police were there to carry out a once in a life time order based on vain politics.

If I remember he was sent by Breitbart.

[Peter1469]

If I remember he was sent by Breitbart.

That is looking at a traffic violation while the bank is being robbed. What is wrong with you.

[zelmo1234]

How many planes have gone down during shutdowns?

My kids would never go without lunch.

You can't feed your own kids!!!! that is the Governments job, shame on you! :)

[zelmo1234]

it wasn't political when the repubs were there asking the park ranger if she wasn't ashamed to turn these poor vets away?

She should have been because the only reason they did it was to hurt the vets

[Redrose]

Seriously, lots of people talk about a government shutdown, like it's the end of the world and the herald of our collapse. Yet, every time a shutdown happens, the only reason anyone knows it's happening is because the media and hysterical politicians tell us it's happening. Otherwise, life continues on as normal.


It's all for show, nothing more. If it went by quietly, no one could score any political points. They make a big deal out of it to make themselves look good and slam the other side. Both parties do it.

At the IRS, when the gov't. shut down, we were all sent home. We loved it. It was a paid vacation. A couple of days later we were all called back, and pay was retro.

It's no biggie.

[Mac-7]

The rationale given is that the memorials need protection as they have been vandalized before. That's why access was cut off. The orders came from congress.

Spoken like a clueless Canadian.

The memorials are under obumers direct control.

[Howey]

I don't know about when they can be visited...but the repub giving the park ranger a hard time was there for the politics...the same reason the ropes were there...no difference.


Spoken like a clueless Canadian.

The memorials are under obumers direct control.

No. They are under the control of the National park service. And congress shut them down.
I'd like to remind you we don't insult others here.

[Mac-7]

No. They are under the control of the National park service. And congress shut them down.


The National a Park Service is in the executive branch of government.

obumer controls the day to day operation not congress.

[donttread]

Seriously, lots of people talk about a government shutdown, like it's the end of the world and the herald of our collapse. Yet, every time a shutdown happens, the only reason anyone knows it's happening is because the media and hysterical politicians tell us it's happening. Otherwise, life continues on as normal.

I personally believe, government shutdown is preferable to whatever the hell they call what they do when they are not shutdown.

[donttread]

Every time there's a Government Shutdown or Government Cut-Backs, real American People are affected.

You may never personally feel those affects, but those affects are real for someone, someplace, somehow.

Yes, life does continue as normal for most of us, but then most of us are not afforded the luxury of a Computer, the Internet and the time call Government Shutdown or Government Cut-Backs hysterical.

Sorry, but that's the bleading heart liberal in me talking.

Funny it never seems to effect "real American Politicians" though ain't it?

[Bo-4]

Seriously, lots of people talk about a government shutdown, like it's the end of the world and the herald of our collapse. Yet, every time a shutdown happens, the only reason anyone knows it's happening is because the media and hysterical politicians tell us it's happening. Otherwise, life continues on as normal.

The last one (thanks TeaTed) cost us 24 billion after credit downgrade. In my world, that's a BFD.

[Chris]

The last one (thanks TeaTed) cost us 24 billion after credit downgrade. In my world, that's a BFD.

How do you figure $24B was lost when it was just spent elsewhere. Just a reverse broken window fallacy.

[donttread]

The last one (thanks TeaTed) cost us 24 billion after credit downgrade. In my world, that's a BFD.

Credit downgrades are the only thing that can stop the Donkephant spending spree! Well technically the people could but they lack two necessary requirements
1) A set and
2) A clue
So getting the credit card cut up is pretty much our only current hope.

[Mac-7]

The last one (thanks TeaTed) cost us 24 billion after credit downgrade. In my world, that's a BFD.

Obama closed the government last time even though the pro Obama lib news media convinced ignorant Americans that Cruz did it.

[Safety]

Obama closed the government last time even though the pro Obama lib news media convinced ignorant Americans that Cruz did it.

Don't fart and then blame the dog, Mac.


http://youtu.be/MIQu7IJ_dbs

[Mac-7]

Don't fart and then blame the dog, Mac.


http://youtu.be/MIQu7IJ_dbs

The Republican house presented a budget that funded the government and Reid/Obama rejected it.

[PolWatch]

I loved how the repubs bragged they were gonna do it, the night it was done they were dancing in the halls, the next day they were soooo proud...until the poll results started coming in. When they figured out that most Americans did not admire their actions, it suddenly became the dems fault.

[Mac-7]

I loved how the repubs bragged they were gonna do it, the night it was done they were dancing in the halls, the next day they were soooo proud...until the poll results started coming in. When they figured out that most Americans did not admire their actions, it suddenly became the dems fault.

Repubs were happy for the chance to delay or completely stop ObamaCare.

Considering what a disaster it has been that was an excellent idea.

[Safety]

I loved how the repubs bragged they were gonna do it, the night it was done they were dancing in the halls, the next day they were soooo proud...until the poll results started coming in. When they figured out that most Americans did not admire their actions, it suddenly became the dems fault.

F'kin, A.

When the polls showed the public didn't like the shutdown, the GOP turned into how some of the conservatives act here, playing the victim.

12 hours before the shutdown..."we are taking a stand, we will shut the government down!"

After the shutdown...."we didn't cause the shutdown, Obama did"

[Howey]

The Republican house presented a budget that funded the government and Reid/Obama rejected it.

If only they had presented a budget that would get approved...

This is the problem with Republicans. They can present a bill all they want, but if there's no chance of it getting passed why do it?

[Safety]

If only they had presented a budget that would get approved...

This is the problem with Republicans. They can present a bill all they want, but if there's no chance of it getting passed why do it?

Because they know they have "useful idiots" that go on political forums and say
The Republican house presented a budget that funded the government and Reid/Obama rejected it. to try and pretend the GOP was against it from the beginning.

[Mac-7]

If only they had presented a budget that would get approved...

This is the problem with Republicans. They can present a bill all they want, but if there's no chance of it getting passed why do it?

You mean letting obumer write the budget for the repub house to pass?

[Mac-7]

Because they know they have "useful idiots" that go on political forums and say to try and pretend the GOP was against it from the beginning.

Obama smacked you with a great big Gruber and you believed him.

[Safety]

Obama smacked you with a great big Gruber and you believed him.

Switch to decaf Mac.

[Bo-4]

How do you figure $24B was lost when it was just spent elsewhere. Just a reverse broken window fallacy.

Uh Huh.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-z9mo8bSmg4I/ThnOeGyFr2I/AAAAAAAAAng/RQtQue57Dek/s400/blocs.tinet.catblog.jpg

[Peter1469]

Did you understand the words that Chris typed? Your post indicates that you did not.


Uh Huh.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-z9mo8bSmg4I/ThnOeGyFr2I/AAAAAAAAAng/RQtQue57Dek/s400/blocs.tinet.catblog.jpg

[Bob]

The last one (thanks TeaTed) cost us 24 billion after credit downgrade. In my world, that's a BFD.

There was no shut down. You just got fooled.

[Bob]

I loved how the repubs bragged they were gonna do it, the night it was done they were dancing in the halls, the next day they were soooo proud...until the poll results started coming in. When they figured out that most Americans did not admire their actions, it suddenly became the dems fault.
PolWatch

The more you post, the more I understand just how much you are devoted to Democrats.

A surprise a minite. (spelled for hill billies)

[PolWatch]

@PolWatch (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1099)

The more you post, the more I understand just how much you are devoted to Democrats.

A surprise a minite. (spelled for hill billies)

I'm not surprised...you think anyone who doesn't worship all things repub is a dem. However, the more I see of partisan repubs, the less I like them....who knows, maybe you will be successful in getting me to join the democrats eventually.

[Bo-4]

How do you figure $24B was lost when it was just spent elsewhere. Just a reverse broken window fallacy.

We got a credit downgrade.. did you hear? And all for NAUGHT other than TeaWad masturbation.

And oh, Geraldo is one of YOURS now. :D

Did you get your $70 refund from TeaTed yet?

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2013/10/21/geraldo-rivera-wants-send-ted-cruz-bill-23-billion-shutdown-cost-estimat

[Paperback Writer]

Here's the mind blower-mate, who gives you the credit downgrade and who holds their bonds?

[Bo-4]

Did you understand the words that Chris typed? Your post indicates that you did not.

Oh yes i did, TOTALLY.. did YOU understand or DO you understand what any hint on default of full faith and credit means Peter?

I think not..

[Bo-4]

Credit downgrades are the only thing that can stop the Donkephant spending spree! Well technically the people could but they lack two necessary requirements
1) A set and
2) A clue
So getting the credit card cut up is pretty much our only current hope.

WoW, dumb response #12 in this thread alone.

Do continue and SHUT-er-DOWN!!

[Bo-4]

There was no shut down. You just got fooled.

Cool, tell it to S&P as well as the US public who blamed YOUR idiots by a HUGE percentage.

Yes i know, get cocky about the last election. Temporary Gomer.

[PolWatch]

While reading articles on realclearpolitics, I ran across this...The comparison to 'Ruthless People' is priceless!

The Washington Examiner's Sean Higgins compared (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2536665) the 2013 shutdown to the 1986 Danny DeVito film Ruthless People. In the movie, DeVito's wife is abducted by kidnappers expecting a ransom. What they don't realize is that DeVito hates his wife and had intended to kill her himself, making him unlikely to pay the ransom.
"That is the flaw in [Ted] Cruz's defund strategy," Higgins wrote. "He is trying to threaten the Democrats with something that they are not only unafraid of, but with something that they really, really want."
The Cruz-inspired shutdown did not, in fact, end up defunding Obamacare. Instead, it distracted public attention from Obamacare's inept roll-out, where Republicans would have otherwise looked prescient in their objections to the health-care law.
Invariably, the shutdowns rally the Democratic base against the GOP. They turn off conflict-averse independents, who say they just want to get things done. Finally, when Republicans ultimately capitulate and reopen the government, their remaining conservative supporters are angry
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/the-gops-government-shutdown-dilemma-11841

[Chris]

Uh Huh.

...


So, what, bo, the money is lost somewhere, like a hidden treasure to be found and dug up. Time to call Jack Sparrow, me hearties!

DO you know what the broken wind fallacy is?

[Howey]

You mean letting obumer write the budget for the repub house to pass?

Did I say that?

[Bob]

While reading articles on realclearpolitics, I ran across this...The comparison to 'Ruthless People' is priceless!

The Washington Examiner's Sean Higgins compared (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2536665) the 2013 shutdown to the 1986 Danny DeVito film Ruthless People. In the movie, DeVito's wife is abducted by kidnappers expecting a ransom. What they don't realize is that DeVito hates his wife and had intended to kill her himself, making him unlikely to pay the ransom.
"That is the flaw in [Ted] Cruz's defund strategy," Higgins wrote. "He is trying to threaten the Democrats with something that they are not only unafraid of, but with something that they really, really want."
The Cruz-inspired shutdown did not, in fact, end up defunding Obamacare. Instead, it distracted public attention from Obamacare's inept roll-out, where Republicans would have otherwise looked prescient in their objections to the health-care law.
Invariably, the shutdowns rally the Democratic base against the GOP. They turn off conflict-averse independents, who say they just want to get things done. Finally, when Republicans ultimately capitulate and reopen the government, their remaining conservative supporters are angry
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/the-gops-government-shutdown-dilemma-11841

Government never shut down.

Parks closed, but parks are not government.

[Peter1469]

Oh yes i did, TOTALLY.. did YOU understand or DO you understand what any hint on default of full faith and credit means Peter?

I think not..

Incorrect. I do. Also, you do not.

What do you think QE was? Give me $100 today and next year this time I will pay you back $85 - deal? :shocked:

Additionally, the $18T+ debt that we have cannot be paid back politically (or realistically).

[TrueBlue]

Repubs were happy for the chance to delay or completely stop ObamaCare.

Considering what a disaster it has been that was an excellent idea.
The fact of the matter is that Repubs have been spending almost every dime they have trying to tear down the Affordable Care Act. However, there are more Success stories about it than there are failures. The Affordable Care Act Is Working!

Want to see how? Here's how!

ACA Success

http://www.acasuccess.com/

ACA Facts

http://www.acasuccess.com/aca-facts/

[Green Arrow]

TrueBlue, I can't afford health insurance on my own, and last time I checked I don't qualify for the subsidies, so I'm basically left with no insurance and a fine to pay on my already low income.

How is that supposed to help me?

[zelmo1234]

I loved how the repubs bragged they were gonna do it, the night it was done they were dancing in the halls, the next day they were soooo proud...until the poll results started coming in. When they figured out that most Americans did not admire their actions, it suddenly became the dems fault.

Yes the public really punished them in the November elections Just think if they would not have shut the government down? They might of picked up 9 seats in the Senate? Oh wait, Never mind

[TrueBlue]

@TrueBlue (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1308), I can't afford health insurance on my own, and last time I checked I don't qualify for the subsidies, so I'm basically left with no insurance and a fine to pay on my already low income. How is that supposed to help me?
Hi Green Arrow, Sorry to hear about your dire financial situation. And while I cannot offer any advice in that direction since it takes a certified or licensed professional which I am not, there is a great website you might wish to visit that contains lots of information that you might find worth reading.

What if I can't afford insurance under health care reform?
A guide to hardship exemptions

http://www.netquote.com/health-insurance/news/health-care-reform-hardship-exemptions.aspx

[PolWatch]

Yes the public really punished them in the November elections Just think if they would not have shut the government down? They might of picked up 9 seats in the Senate? Oh wait, Never mind

do you really think that it had anything to do with the midterm results? how many people outside of those of us on the forum even remember the 2013 incident? I think people are disgusted with obama and the midterms were a rejection of him.

[Kalkin]

Obamacare is finished. The mandates will be repealed by the next president and congress. Once that happens, it's just a shell of the marxist dream it was conceived to be.

[Green Arrow]

Hi Green Arrow, Sorry to hear about your dire financial situation. And while I cannot offer any advice in that direction since it takes a certified or licensed professional which I am not, there is a great website you might wish to visit that contains lots of information that you might find worth reading.

What if I can't afford insurance under health care reform?
A guide to hardship exemptions

http://www.netquote.com/health-insurance/news/health-care-reform-hardship-exemptions.aspx

Thanks! I appreciate your very helpful response.

[Bob]

ACA was supposed to fix health care, not cause Dr. Coburn to lose his cancer doctor. To force people to pay a lot more. It was supposed to get 60 million more insured, not 6 million. So many lost insurance the actual figure might be more or less than 6 million.

[Green Arrow]

Obamacare is finished. The mandates will be repealed by the next president and congress. Once that happens, it's just a shell of the marxist dream it was conceived to be.

If the GOP is smart, they won't try a full repeal of Obamacare. They'll take the piecemeal approach. The problem with full repeal is it would leave even more people without insurance than there were before, and that will backfire on the GOP.

[Bob]

do you really think that it had anything to do with the midterm results? how many people outside of those of us on the forum even remember the 2013 incident? I think people are disgusted with obama and the midterms were a rejection of him.

Even Reid is no longer sold on Obama.

[Kalkin]

If the GOP is smart, they won't try a full repeal of Obamacare. They'll take the piecemeal approach. The problem with full repeal is it would leave even more people without insurance than there were before, and that will backfire on the GOP.
A full repeal isn't necessary (although I would certainly support such a move). The mandates are the most odious aspect, as well as the lynchpin that makes it somewhat financially feasible.

[Green Arrow]

A full repeal isn't necessary (although I would certainly support such a move). The mandates are the most odious aspect, as well as the lynchpin that makes it somewhat financially feasible.

If they don't go for full repeal and repeal the mandates, they'll have to quickly introduce a new funding apparatus (at least temporarily, until it can be fixed) or our economy could crash from the strain.

It's not unlike defusing a bomb, really. Cut the wrong wire and the whole thing could blow.

[PolWatch]

As far back as Jan 2014, repubs were discussing proposals for the revision of the ACA. Some of them have quietly admitted it can't/won't be repealed, but should be modified. The New England Journal of Medicine had an article about Orrin Hatch's proposal that was interesting.

[Bob]

If the GOP is smart, they won't try a full repeal of Obamacare. They'll take the piecemeal approach. The problem with full repeal is it would leave even more people without insurance than there were before, and that will backfire on the GOP.

Let me try to paint a word picture.

Say the car has bald tires. Somebody says you fix it by gluing a bit of rubber on the bald tires.

That sucks. Somebody says, make a tweak. That won't work.

I am saying, the problem never was insurance. Sure, insurance had it's faults. Like how easy insurance companies can boot you off or refuse you for instance. Those fixes can take a few pages of law. But 3,000, no way.

So, what is the reason doctors and hospitals charge so much, compared to other countries.

1. Unions
2. Courts rulings
3. Government

Unions because they got so involved and it ran up prices.
Courts because it is easy to sue doctors, even though innocent, insurance companies pay.
Government because it got involved.

[Bob]

As far back as Jan 2014, repubs were discussing proposals for the revision of the ACA. Some of them have quietly admitted it can't/won't be repealed, but should be modified. The New England Journal of Medicine had an article about Orrin Hatch's proposal that was interesting.

This law is so deeply flawed, only ripping it out and beginning to solve the real problems can have a chance.

[Green Arrow]

Let me try to paint a word picture.

Let's not. Just make your point and be done with it. Like this:

Obamacare is a big handout to insurance companies. The single-payer plans put forward by Reps. Dennis Kucinich (D, OH-10) and Anthony Weiner (D, NY-9) were much better options that the Democratic leadership killed.

[Bob]

Let's not. Just make your point and be done with it. Like this:

Obamacare is a big handout to insurance companies. The single-payer plans put forward by Reps. Dennis Kucinich (D, OH-10) and Anthony Weiner (D, NY-9) were much better options that the Democratic leadership killed.

How long have you thought you are my boss?

Try backing up and coming again.

I gave the reasons health care is so expensive.

Once they comprehend why costs are high, solutions can be discussed.

[Green Arrow]

How long have you thought you are my boss?

Since I got the green nametag and you didn't, but I'm not posting as a mod, so that's beside the point. I'm not trying to be your boss, just giving you a suggestion.


Try backing up and coming again.

I gave the reasons health care is so expensive.

Once they comprehend why costs are high, solutions can be discussed.

Why healthcare is expensive isn't germane to the topic. The topic is Obamacare and the logic of different repeal/repair approaches.

[Mac-7]

Cool, tell it to S&P as well as the US public who blamed YOUR idiots by a HUGE percentage.

Yes i know, get $#@!y about the last election. Temporary Gomer.

The public only knows what pro Obama libs at MSNBC or the NY Times want them to know.

You were lied to to pass ObamaCare and you are still being lied to.

[Mac-7]

Did I say that?

You implied that the repubs were only allowed to pass a budget that Dirty Harry and obumer APPROVED of.

But that's not how the three branches of government and the separation of powers are supposed to work.

[Mac-7]

However, there are more Success stories about it than there are failures.

Bullshit.

obamacare raises the cost of health insurance for 280 million Americans who were already doing ok so that 10-20 million deadbeats can get free or government subsidized service.

Thats why Obama and Gruber had to tell all those lies to pass the bill.

[donttread]

I'm one of the American people and my faith in government would grow if the royalty in Washington were treated like us peasants for a change.

Common ground.