Congress quietly ends federal government's ban on medical marijuana

[Chris]

I get the remaining contention over recreational marijuana, sort of, but never could understand restrictions on medical marijuana.

Congress quietly ends federal government's ban on medical marijuana (http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-medical-pot-20141216-story.html)


Tucked deep inside the 1,603-page federal spending measure is a provision that effectively ends the federal government's prohibition on medical marijuana and signals a major shift in drug policy.

The bill's passage over the weekend marks the first time Congress has approved nationally significant legislation backed by legalization advocates. It brings almost to a close two decades of tension between the states and Washington over medical use of marijuana.

Under the provision, states where medical pot is legal would no longer need to worry about federal drug agents raiding retail operations. Agents would be prohibited from doing so.

...

[Cigar]

Change and Progress

[donttread]

I get the remaining contention over recreational marijuana, sort of, but never could understand restrictions on medical marijuana.

Congress quietly ends federal government's ban on medical marijuana (http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-medical-pot-20141216-story.html)

How long do you think it will take them to give the states back the rest of drug policy

[Mac-7]

Now druggies will find a corrupt doctor to write them a perscription.

[The Xl]

Now druggies will find a corrupt doctor to write them a perscription.

All while you have yourself a nice drink, probably.

[Chris]

How long do you think it will take them to give the states back the rest of drug policy

Hard to say with limited-government cons like Cruz advocating for federal enforcement of laws related to recreational use.

[Chris]

Now druggies will find a corrupt doctor to write them a perscription.

Once again you are wholly irrelevant to the topic at hand.

http://i.snag.gy/a8xAM.jpg

[The Xl]

The notion of the state having a say on what people put in their own body is about as anti freedom as it gets. It's even more egregious when you take a substance away from a sick person using it for medical reasons.

This state is evil.

[Crepitus]

I rarely drink, don't like the side effects.
I haven't smoked in decades, since I was a teenager in fact, but I probably would if it were legal. Never had a pot hangover, never got into a pot-fueled brawl either.

[Mac-7]

All while you have yourself a nice drink, probably.

Maybe.

but drinking Budweiser never led to a cocaine addiction like pot often does.

[PolWatch]

hmm...perhaps in 20 years or so, Alabama will get around to looking at the medical marijuana issue...not saying they tend to lag behind the rest of the country or nuttin....

[Mac-7]

Once again you are wholly irrelevant to the topic at hand.

http://i.snag.gy/a8xAM.jpg
i am on topic.

Now to get high all pot heads have to do is find a corrupt doctor.

[Chris]

hmm...perhaps in 20 years or so, Alabama will get around to looking at the medical marijuana issue...not saying they tend to lag behind the rest of the country or nuttin....

I don't expect TX to be any quicker. But that's OK, if Texans aren't ready but Coloradans are, to each state its own.

[Chris]

Change and Progress

Change, yes, progress? Certainly a little more liberty.

[The Xl]

Maybe.

but drinking Budweiser never led to a cocaine addiction like pot often does.

Well, that assertion is incorrect.

In any case, alcohol is certainly a gateway drug, I've known people that moved to weed and other drugs after they started drinking, and the stand alone effects of alcohol are worse than marijuana.

Alcohol pretty much already fucked the lives up of some of of my close childhood friends, and they're only in their mid 20s. So yeah, if you want to use the gateway and damage argument, alcohol fits the bill.

[Mac-7]

Well, that assertion is incorrect.

In any case, alcohol is certainly a gateway drug, I've known people that moved to weed and other drugs after they started drinking, and the stand alone effects of alcohol are worse than marijuana.

Alcohol pretty much already $#@!ed the lives up of some of of my close childhood friends, and they're only in their mid 20s. So yeah, if you want to use the gateway and damage argument, alcohol fits the bill.


Alcohol has ruined many lives.

But adding a 2nd, 3rd or 4th even more dangerous options will only entrap more weak people.

[PolWatch]

I wonder if there are any studies comparing things like auto accidents...pot smoking v/s alcohol consumption? anyone know?

[The Xl]

Alcohol has ruined many lives.

But adding a 2nd, 3rd or 4th even more dangerous options will only entrap more weak people.

Unless we put every alcohol drinker(Which you more or less just admitted to being) and seller in prison first, then no.

[Chris]

Well, that assertion is incorrect.

In any case, alcohol is certainly a gateway drug, I've known people that moved to weed and other drugs after they started drinking, and the stand alone effects of alcohol are worse than marijuana.

Alcohol pretty much already fucked the lives up of some of of my close childhood friends, and they're only in their mid 20s. So yeah, if you want to use the gateway and damage argument, alcohol fits the bill.


Arguing weed is a gateway drug is like arguing guns kill. I think their are addictive personalities, those who try something, weed, beer, and a little isn't enough, and they eventually seek that high in stronger stuff.

As I understand it though, medical marijuana doesn't get you high, it's low on THC, and high on CDB.

What are High CBD Strains and How Do They Differ from THC? (http://www.leafly.com/news/lifestyle/whats-the-deal-with-these-high-cbd-strains)


...CBD is the abbreviation for cannabidiol, the cannabinoid second only to THC when it comes to average volume. Recently, research has shown CBD to have analgesic, anti-inflammatory and anti-anxiety properties without the psychoactive effects (the "high" or "stoned" feeling) that THC provides. While high THC strains often tout levels of over 20%, generally, CBD levels of over 4% are considered to be high.

...It looks to be especially promising for conditions that are difficult to treat such as Crohn’s disease, PTSD and multiple sclerosis. Lately, it is one of the rarest of these conditions, Dravet’s Syndrome, that is getting a lot of attention from both the medical community and the public. Dravet’s Syndrome is an especially debilitating form of epilepsy that affects children and is notoriously resistant to current approved treatment methods. Sufferers are plagued by seizures, often up to hundreds a day that worsen as they age and can be life-threatening.....

[Mac-7]

Unless we put every alcohol drinker(Which you more or less just admitted to being) and seller in prison first, then no.

We tried that during prohibition and failed.

Booze has been a large part of human culture for thousands of years.

but these new drugs only add to the problem.

[Crepitus]

I wonder if there are any studies comparing things like auto accidents...pot smoking v/s alcohol consumption? anyone know?
Yep, Slate from 2011:

A new study suggests that legalizing medical marijuana reduces traffic fatalities (http://medicalxpress.com/news/2011-11-medical-marijuana-laws-traffic-deaths.html). The authors noted that legalizing marijuana reduces alcohol consumption, and people are more wary of driving high than drunk. Which drug is actually more dangerous on the road?
Alcohol, and it’s not even close. It’s hard to directly compare alcohol and marijuana, because driving impairment depends on dosage and the two drugs tend to affect different skills. (Pot makes drivers worse at mindless tasks like staying in a lane, while alcohol undermines behaviors that require more attention like yielding to pedestrians or taking note of stop signs.) Nevertheless, Yale psychiatrist Richard Sewell reviewed the academic literature on driving while intoxicated in a 2009 article (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2722956/?tool=pubmed), and found that alcohol is significantly more dangerous. Real-world data from auto accidents indicate that a drunk driver is approximately 10 times more likely to cause a fatal accident than a stoned driver. In most studies, smoking one-third of a joint or less has virtually no impact on a driver’s performance. A couple of studies even suggest that pot smokers are less likely to cause an accident than sober drivers.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/explainer/2011/11/does_marijuana_make_you_a_more_dangerous_driver_th an_alcohol_.html

[The Xl]

Arguing weed is a gateway drug is like arguing guns kill. I think their are addictive personalities, those who try something, weed, beer, and a little isn't enough, and they eventually seek that high in stronger stuff.

As I understand it though, medical marijuana doesn't get you high, it's low on THC, and high on CDB.

What are High CBD Strains and How Do They Differ from THC? (http://www.leafly.com/news/lifestyle/whats-the-deal-with-these-high-cbd-strains)

I think anything can be a gateway drug tbh. Doesn't mean we should make freedom illegal

[The Xl]

We tried that during prohibition and failed.

Booze has been a large part of human culture for thousands of years.

but these new drugs only add to the problem.

The drug war has failed too, it's just that the government has been much more stubborn on that front in regards to calling it a day. Too many occupations thrive on it.

In any case, your assertion that people should go to prison for drugs, yet, not for alcohol makes no sense. That's like saying we should imprison people who kill by using a bat but not a knife. It literally makes no sense on any scale.

[Chris]

I wonder if there are any studies comparing things like auto accidents...pot smoking v/s alcohol consumption? anyone know?

From NIH: THE EFFECT OF CANNABIS COMPARED WITH ALCOHOL ON DRIVING (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2722956/), abstract:


The prevalence of both alcohol and cannabis use and the high morbidity associated with motor vehicle crashes has lead to a plethora of research on the link between the two. Drunk drivers are involved in 25% of motor vehicle fatalities, and many accidents involve drivers who test positive for cannabis. Cannabis and alcohol acutely impair several driving-related skills in a dose-related fashion, but the effects of cannabis vary more between individuals than they do with alcohol because of tolerance, differences in smoking technique, and different absorptions of Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the active ingredient in marijuana. Detrimental effects of cannabis use vary in a dose-related fashion, and are more pronounced with highly automatic driving functions than with more complex tasks that require conscious control, whereas with alcohol produces an opposite pattern of impairment. Because of both this and an increased awareness that they are impaired, marijuana smokers tend to compensate effectively while driving by utilizing a variety of behavioral strategies. Combining marijuana with alcohol eliminates the ability to use such strategies effectively, however, and results in impairment even at doses which would be insignificant were they of either drug alone. Epidemiological studies have been inconclusive regarding whether cannabis use causes an increased risk of accidents; in contrast, unanimity exists that alcohol use increases crash risk. Furthermore, the risk from driving under the influence of both alcohol and cannabis is greater than the risk of driving under the influence of either alone. Future research should focus on resolving contradictions posed by previous studies, and patients who smoke cannabis should be counseled to wait several hours before driving, and avoid combining the two drugs.


Keep in mind that that's comparison with weed with high THC, not high CBD content.

[Chris]

I think anything can be a gateway drug tbh. Doesn't mean we should make freedom illegal

Well, I started posting on an RVing forum, and that was a gateway to this. ;)

Agree, anything can be, but I think you need an addictive personality. Some people never go past a few joints or mugs.

[The Xl]

Well, I started posting on an RVing forum, and that was a gateway to this. ;)

Agree, anything can be, but I think you need an addictive personality. Some people never go past a few joints or mugs.

True.

[Chris]

Yep, Slate from 2011:


http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/explainer/2011/11/does_marijuana_make_you_a_more_dangerous_driver_th an_alcohol_.html
[/FONT][/COLOR]

The NIH study I just posted agrees and added that marijuana tends to make people overcompensate and drive more carefully.

Still got to believe it slows reflexes.

[PolWatch]

my personal observation makes me think that alcohol is more likely to increase aggressive behavior...but I don't know if that is just the people I know (mean drunks)

[Chris]

my personal observation makes me think that alcohol is more likely to increase aggressive behavior...but I don't know if that is just the people I know (mean drunks)

The NIH study agreed with that. Weed makes people lazy, unmotivated, is what I've seen.

[Chris]

Silly thought, but Congress must've been high to have passed something so sensible.

http://i.snag.gy/VzCaB.jpg

[Crepitus]

The NIH study I just posted agrees and added that marijuana tends to make people overcompensate and drive more carefully.

Still got to believe it slows reflexes.
Oh absolutely.

[Mac-7]

The drug war has failed too, it's just that the government has been much more stubborn on that front in regards to calling it a day. Too many occupations thrive on it.

In any case, your assertion that people should go to prison for drugs, yet, not for alcohol makes no sense. That's like saying we should imprison people who kill by using a bat but not a knife. It literally makes no sense on any scale.

The drug war has not failed any more than the fight against cancer has failed.

There is no cure for druggies who want to damage their brains but we can make it harder for them to do so and discourage the fence sitters who are not sure one way or the other.

[Chris]

The drug war has not failed any more than the fight against cancer has failed.

There is no cure for druggies who want to damage their brains but we can make it harder for them to do so and discourage the fence sitters who are not sure one way or the other.

Uh, mac, we're not talking about recreational drugs but medical marijuana, OK?

[Mac-7]

Uh, mac, we're not talking about recreational drugs but medical marijuana, OK?

I expect medical marijuana will be abused the same way late term abortions and handicapped parking are.

[Chris]

I expect medical marijuana will be abused the same way late term abortions and handicapped parking are.

It's prescribed, mac, you don't, as usual, know what you're talking about.

[Mac-7]

It's prescribed, mac, you don't, as usual, know what you're talking about.

I know exactly what I'm talking about.

druggies who want to get will soon learn who the corrupt doctors are.

[PolWatch]

I know exactly what I'm talking about.

druggies who want to get will soon learn who the corrupt doctors are.

following that logic, no doctors should be allowed to prescribe any pain management drugs...always gotta be someone who abuses them.

[Codename Section]

I know exactly what I'm talking about.

druggies who want to get will soon learn who the corrupt doctors are.

They don't do that now with harder drugs or anything. :rollseyes:

[Captain Obvious]

It's prescribed, mac, you don't, as usual, know what you're talking about.

"Candy-man" docs are a big problem, especially in my area. CMS, more specifically the OIG is making it a focus to go after docs prescribing unnecessary narcotics to patients for a variety of reasons - sex is one of the somewhat more popular illicit ones.

Patients are known to do drive-by's at ER's looking for narcotics. It's a common practice for ER's to alert nearby ER's of drug seeking patients.

Doc office break-ins are common also, drug seekers. They don't realize that narcotics are either not kept in docs offices or they're locked up.

[Chris]

"Candy-man" docs are a big problem, especially in my area. CMS, more specifically the OIG is making it a focus to go after docs prescribing unnecessary narcotics to patients for a variety of reasons - sex is one of the somewhat more popular illicit ones.

Patients are known to do drive-by's at ER's looking for narcotics. It's a common practice for ER's to alert nearby ER's of drug seeking patients.

Doc office break-ins are common also, drug seekers. They don't realize that narcotics are either not kept in docs offices or they're locked up.



Medical marijuana has low concentrations of THC, it doesn't get you high.

[Captain Obvious]

Medical marijuana has low concentrations of THC, it doesn't get you high.

I don't know that marijuana is classified as a narcotic. I doubt it is but I'm not sure.

[Chris]

I know exactly what I'm talking about.

druggies who want to get will soon learn who the corrupt doctors are.


No, you do not know. Medical marijuana has low concentrations of THC, it doesn't get you high.

[Captain Obvious]

No, you do not know. Medical marijuana has low concentrations of THC, it doesn't get you high.

I would guess that medical marijuana would be at the low end of what drug seekers are seeking.

They want the shit that keeps them numb all weekend.

[Chris]

I would guess that medical marijuana would be at the low end of what drug seekers are seeking.

They want the shit that keeps them numb all weekend.


Right, earlier I said I can somewhat understand arguments against recreational use. But this legislation concerned only medical.

[The Xl]

The drug war has not failed any more than the fight against cancer has failed.

There is no cure for druggies who want to damage their brains but we can make it harder for them to do so and discourage the fence sitters who are not sure one way or the other.

I'll wait for you to turn yourself in for drinking, as your no different than the "druggies" you demonize.

[donttread]

I don't know that marijuana is classified as a narcotic. I doubt it is but I'm not sure.

The legal and scientific definitions of drugs do not always align. Some actually classify MJ as a hallucinogen, but I find that quite debatable

[Chris]

Well, according to this it's unclear what the amendment did: Congress Did Not Repeal the Ban on Medical Marijuana (http://reason.com/blog/2014/12/16/congress-did-not-repeal-the-ban-on-medic)


Yesterday I argued that it's not clear whether a rider aimed at stopping federal harassment of medical marijuana patients and their suppliers will accomplish that goal. The provision, introduced by Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.) and included in the omnibus spending bill passed by Congress last week, bars the Justice Department from spending money to "prevent" states or the District of Columbia from "implementing" laws allowing medical use of cannabis. I am not sure exactly what that means, but I am pretty sure it does not mean what the Los Angeles Times claims it means in a story headlined "Congress Quietly Ends Federal Government's Ban on Medical Marijuana"....

The Rohrabacher amendment is a welcome indication that many members of Congress, including a sizable number of Republicans, are inclined to let states set their own marijuana policies, and it may indeed deter federal prosecutors from targeting patients and suppliers who comply with state law. But it clearly does not end the federal ban on marijuana, which makes no distinction between medical and recreational use....

...

[Mac-7]

I would guess that medical marijuana would be at the low end of what drug seekers are seeking.

They want the $#@! that keeps them numb all weekend.

I would guess that there is no national standards for medical pot and no limits on the level of thc.

[Don]

Medical or "recreational", the federal government should have no say about it. It should strictly be a states issue. In the states where it is illegal the people can keep an eye on the states where it is legal or less restricted and decide for themselves what they want to do by what they observe.

[Chris]

I would guess that there is no national standards for medical pot and no limits on the level of thc.

The medical community sets standard on medical marijuana. THC is not a factor in this topic and you know it. Apparently even many Republicans including the one who introduced the amendment agree with it.

[Mac-7]

The medical community sets standard on medical marijuana. THC is not a factor in this topic and you know it. Apparently even many Republicans including the one who introduced the amendment agree with it.

The medical community does not have any established legal limits on pot.

btw: here you claim that "thc is not a factor in this topic" but in a previous post you wrote


" Originally Posted by Chris
Medical marijuana has low concentrations of THC, it doesn't get you high."

can't you you keep your story straight?

[Chris]

The medical community does not have any established legal limits on pot.

btw: here you claim that "thc is not a factor in this topic" but in a previous post you wrote



can't you you keep your story straight?


You asked about standards and I answered the medical community sets those. With medical marijuana limits on THC is not a factor.

"thc is not a factor in this topic" because "Medical marijuana has low concentrations of THC, it doesn't get you high."


When you figure this out about what medical marijuana is I'll be glad to have an intelligent discussion with you, till then that's impossible.

[donttread]

All while you have yourself a nice drink, probably.

and a cigar

[Mac-7]

You asked about standards and I answered the medical community sets those. With medical marijuana limits on THC is not a factor.

"thc is not a factor in this topic" because "Medical marijuana has low concentrations of THC, it doesn't get you high."


When you figure this out about what medical marijuana is I'll be glad to have an intelligent discussion with you, till then that's impossible.

i didn't ask you about standards.

you made a silly claim that medical marijuana doesn't produce a high because (you claim) medical marijuana is somehow different from recreational marijuana and I don't think it is.

Its impossible to have an intelligent conversation with you when you can't even keep your story straight.