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Cigar
12-16-2014, 06:13 PM
Yes, We Did Execute Japanese Soldiers for Waterboarding American POWs
It stuns me that we are still having a debate, as a country, over whether or not what the Bush Administration did to detainees in the war on terror was actually torture. I would hope that this helps settle things. The fact-checking outfit called PolitiFact confirms that a McCain statement from 2007, dredged up recently by Paul Begala, is accurate:


"I forgot to mention last night that following World War II war crime trials were convened. The Japanese were tried and convicted and hung for war crimes committed against American POWs. Among those charges for which they were convicted was waterboarding," told reporters at a campaign event.
....
You can argue that the techniques used by Americans on detainees were necessary and, because of the OLC memos, legal. I would disagree with you, but you could plausibly make that argument. What you cannot do any longer is pretend that those techniques do not meet the definition of torture that America has used in the past.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2009/04/yes-we-did-execute-japanese-soldiers-waterboarding-american-pows

There you have it. "Waterboarding" was such a despicable act as to classify it as a war crime deserving execution. Anyone who says it's not torture is an ignoramus at best, with the other end of the scale being "genuine war criminal".

donttread
12-16-2014, 06:43 PM
Yes, We Did Execute Japanese Soldiers for Waterboarding American POWs


It stuns me that we are still having a debate, as a country, over whether or not what the Bush Administration did to detainees in the war on terror was actually torture. I would hope that this helps settle things. The fact-checking outfit called PolitiFact confirms that a McCain statement from 2007, dredged up recently by Paul Begala, is accurate:

"I forgot to mention last night that following World War II war crime trials were convened. The Japanese were tried and convicted and hung for war crimes committed against American POWs. Among those charges for which they were convicted was waterboarding," told reporters at a campaign event.

....
You can argue that the techniques used by Americans on detainees were necessary and, because of the OLC memos, legal. I would disagree with you, but you could plausibly make that argument. What you cannot do any longer is pretend that those techniques do not meet the definition of torture that America has used in the past.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2009/04/yes-we-did-execute-japanese-soldiers-waterboarding-american-pows

There you have it. "Waterboarding" was such a despicable act as to classify it as a war crime deserving execution. Anyone who says it's not torture is an ignoramus at best, with the other end of the scale being "genuine war criminal".

But torture led us to discover the WMD's in Iraq! Oh, wait, my bad

Peter1469
12-16-2014, 07:27 PM
Here is another example of the hard left passing on talking points without understanding a word in the post before they hit Post Reply.

This is not only unbelievably stupid, it is either sloppy fact checking (like Rolling Stone) or it is a deliberate lie.

And with the hard left, it could very well be both. :smiley:

The water boarding techniques used by the Imperial Japanese was nothing like what was used by America and her allies in the GWOT (I know, stupid name).

The Japanese version was meant to possibly kill - water was poured directly into the mouth. If they didn't stop you would drown. The Spanish inquisition version used a funnel to get the water into the stomach and water was poured until the stomach distilled. Sometimes it would rupture on its own. Other times people would stomp on the stomach to get it to pop.

Hard leftists, take your lies somewhere else.





Yes, We Did Execute Japanese Soldiers for Waterboarding American POWs


It stuns me that we are still having a debate, as a country, over whether or not what the Bush Administration did to detainees in the war on terror was actually torture. I would hope that this helps settle things. The fact-checking outfit called PolitiFact confirms that a McCain statement from 2007, dredged up recently by Paul Begala, is accurate:
"I forgot to mention last night that following World War II war crime trials were convened. The Japanese were tried and convicted and hung for war crimes committed against American POWs. Among those charges for which they were convicted was waterboarding," told reporters at a campaign event.

....
You can argue that the techniques used by Americans on detainees were necessary and, because of the OLC memos, legal. I would disagree with you, but you could plausibly make that argument. What you cannot do any longer is pretend that those techniques do not meet the definition of torture that America has used in the past.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2009/04/yes-we-did-execute-japanese-soldiers-waterboarding-american-pows

There you have it. "Waterboarding" was such a despicable act as to classify it as a war crime deserving execution. Anyone who says it's not torture is an ignoramus at best, with the other end of the scale being "genuine war criminal".

Cigar
12-16-2014, 07:34 PM
http://stephenhsia.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/wrongsideofhistory.jpg

Captain Obvious
12-16-2014, 07:34 PM
Here is another example of the hard left passing on talking points without understanding a word in the post before they hit Post Reply.

This is not only unbelievably stupid, it is either sloppy fact checking (like Rolling Stone) or it is a deliberate lie.

And with the hard left, it could very well be both. :smiley:

The water boarding techniques used by the Imperial Japanese was nothing like what was used by America and her allies in the GWOT (I know, stupid name).

The Japanese version was meant to possibly kill - water was poured directly into the mouth. If they didn't stop you would drown. The Spanish inquisition version used a funnel to get the water into the stomach and water was poured until the stomach distilled. Sometimes it would rupture on its own. Other times people would stomp on the stomach get it to pop.

Hard leftists, take your lies somewhere else.

Not just into the mouth also.

Professor Peabody
12-16-2014, 10:30 PM
Yes, We Did Execute Japanese Soldiers for Waterboarding American POWs


It stuns me that we are still having a debate, as a country, over whether or not what the Bush Administration did to detainees in the war on terror was actually torture. I would hope that this helps settle things. The fact-checking outfit called PolitiFact confirms that a McCain statement from 2007, dredged up recently by Paul Begala, is accurate:

"I forgot to mention last night that following World War II war crime trials were convened. The Japanese were tried and convicted and hung for war crimes committed against American POWs. Among those charges for which they were convicted was waterboarding," told reporters at a campaign event.

....
You can argue that the techniques used by Americans on detainees were necessary and, because of the OLC memos, legal. I would disagree with you, but you could plausibly make that argument. What you cannot do any longer is pretend that those techniques do not meet the definition of torture that America has used in the past.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2009/04/yes-we-did-execute-japanese-soldiers-waterboarding-american-pows

There you have it. "Waterboarding" was such a despicable act as to classify it as a war crime deserving execution. Anyone who says it's not torture is an ignoramus at best, with the other end of the scale being "genuine war criminal".


During the Japanese occupation of Singapore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_occupation_of_Singapore) the Double Tenth Incident (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Tenth_Incident) occurred. This included waterboarding, by the method of binding or holding down the victim on his back, placing a cloth over his mouth and nose, and pouring water onto the cloth. In this version, interrogation continued during the torture, with the interrogators beating the victim if he did not reply and the victim swallowing water if he opened his mouth to answer or breathe. When the victim could ingest no more water, the interrogators would beat or jump on his distended stomach.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding#World_War_II

Post the evidence we did THAT!

Cigar
12-16-2014, 11:00 PM
Step One:

Peter1469
12-16-2014, 11:15 PM
Saul Alinsky is gay.

del
12-16-2014, 11:45 PM
Saul Alinsky is gay.

does the salvation army know?

waltky
11-24-2016, 02:52 AM
FBI doesn't believe it works either...

Trump Faces Hurdles to Reinstating Waterboarding
Nov 23, 2016 | WASHINGTON — President-elect Donald Trump backs waterboarding and his pick for CIA director has called those who have done it "patriots" not "torturers." Yet a Trump administration faces steep legal and legislative hurdles to reinstate the interrogation practice that simulates drowning.


Under a law approved last year, all government employees, including intelligence agents, must abide by Army guidelines for interrogating prisoners — guidelines that don't permit waterboarding. Those rules are subject to review, but it's not clear if they can be revised to allow the practice. If the Trump administration were to try to change the law or the guidelines, the effort would run into bipartisan opposition in Congress. The most formidable obstacle there would be a fellow Republican, John McCain. The Arizona senator, who was beaten as a prisoner of war in Vietnam in the 1960s, adamantly opposes waterboarding. As chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, he would be well-positioned to block any attempt to revive it.

McCain has clashed before with Trump, who during the campaign claimed the former Navy pilot wasn't a war hero because he had been captured. At a security conference in Canada last weekend, McCain indicated he was ready to take on Trump again as he begins another six-year term after winning re-election. "I don't give a damn what the president of the United States wants to do or anybody else wants to do," McCain said. "We will not waterboard. We will not do it." Waterboarding and other harsh methods were used in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks to try to obtain useful information from terrorist suspects. Many intelligence, military and law enforcement officials say the practice is ineffective as well as immoral. They say it breaks down trust between the suspect and interrogators and often prompts a detainee to say anything to stop the harsh treatment.

But Trump, who revved up his supporters with tough talk against against Islamic State extremists, pledged to interrogate terrorist suspects with waterboarding and a "hell of a lot worse." "Don't tell me it doesn't work," Trump said. "Torture works, OK folks?" Trump's nominee for CIA is Rep. Mike Pompeo, a conservative congressman from Kansas who has criticized President Barack Obama for "ending our interrogation program," which Obama did not do. Pompeo criticized the release of the Senate's 2014 report on harsh interrogation of detainees and argued that the CIA program operated within the law. "Our men and women who were tasked to keep us safe in the aftermath of 9/11 — our military and our intelligence warriors — are ... not torturers, they are patriots," Pompeo said then.

The views of Trump's other nominees are more opaque. Trump's national security adviser, Retired Army Lt. General Michael Flynn, has not ruled out the use of waterboarding. "If the nation was in grave danger from a terrorist attack involving weapons of mass destruction, and we had certain individuals in our custody with information that might avoid it, then I would probably OK enhanced interrogation techniques within certain limits," he told Politico in October. Trump's pick for attorney general, Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., was one of a few senators who voted against bipartisan anti-torture provisions in 2005 and 2015. But in 2008, Sessions said: "I am glad we are no longer utilizing waterboarding. I hope we never have to do it again." That was before the rise of IS militants. And on Tuesday, Trump told The New York Times that he asked retired Marine Gen. James Mattis, a strong prospect for defense secretary, about waterboarding and was surprised to hear Mattis does not favor it.

MORE (http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/11/23/trump-faces-hurdles-reinstating-waterboarding.html)

See also:

Mattis to Trump: Beer, Cigarettes Work Better Than Waterboarding
Nov 23, 2016 | Retired Gen. James Mattis "surprised" President-elect Donald Trump by suggesting that he rethink his position on waterboarding, telling him that "beer and cigarettes" were a better alternative in terror suspect interrogations.


Trump said that the advice from Mattis, a front-runner for the defense secretary post in a Trump administration, would weigh heavily on whether he will go forward with campaign pledges to bring back waterboarding and torture in interrogations by the military and the CIA. In his meeting last week with the man he calls "Mad Dog Mattis," Trump said he asked, "What do you think of waterboarding? He said -- I was surprised -- he said, 'I've never found it to be useful.' " Trump said Mattis told him, " 'I've always found, give me a pack of cigarettes and a couple of beers and I do better with that than I do with torture.' "

Trump said he was not entirely convinced. "I'm not saying it changed my mind. Look, we have people that are chopping off heads and drowning people in steel cages, and we're not allowed to waterboard. But I'll tell you what, I was impressed by that answer" from Mattis. Trump called Mattis "a very respected guy. In fact, I met with a number of other generals. They say he's the finest there is. He is being seriously, seriously considered for secretary of defense." "I think it's time, maybe it's time for a general," Trump said, although Mattis, if he accepted the nomination, would need a waiver from Congress on the seven-year rule against military officers taking cabinet posts. The 66-year-old Mattis retired in 2013 after 44 years of service in which he became a Marine Corps legend.


http://images05.military.com/media/news/people/trump-mattis-shake-1500-ts600.jpg
President-elect Donald Trump shakes hands with retired Marine Corps Gen. James Mattis as he leaves Trump National Golf Club Bedminster clubhouse in Bedminster, N.J.

Trump made the comments in a wide-ranging and non-confrontational interview Tuesday with reporters and editors of The New York Times, a newspaper he often pilloried during the campaign for what he called biased coverage. The Times published a transcript of the interview Wednesday. In his lengthy response to the waterboarding question from the Times' Maggie Haberman, Trump again said he was surprised to find that Mattis agreed with the current policy backed by the Uniform Code of Military Justice against waterboarding and other "enhanced interrogation techniques" that were sanctioned under the administration of former President George W. Bush.

Trump said he ultimately would be guided by public opinion if he decided to press for changes in the policy. "If it's so important to the American people, I would go for it. I would be guided by that," he said. "But General Mattis found it to be very less important, much less important than I thought he would say," Trump said. "I thought he would say -- you know, he's known as Mad Dog Mattis, right? Mad Dog for a reason. I thought he'd say, 'It's phenomenal, don't lose it.' " However, Mattis "actually said, 'No, give me some cigarettes and some drinks, and we'll do better,' " Trump said.

MORE (http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/11/23/mattis-trump-beer-cigarettes-work-better-waterboarding.html)

Peter1469
11-24-2016, 03:03 AM
The way the US does it- it certainly does not work for people trained to resist interrogation. That is because it really isn't torture the way we do it.

Cletus
11-24-2016, 03:43 AM
Here is another example of the hard left passing on talking points without understanding a word in the post before they hit Post Reply.

This is not only unbelievably stupid, it is either sloppy fact checking (like Rolling Stone) or it is a deliberate lie.

And with the hard left, it could very well be both. :smiley:

The water boarding techniques used by the Imperial Japanese was nothing like what was used by America and her allies in the GWOT (I know, stupid name).

The Japanese version was meant to possibly kill - water was poured directly into the mouth. If they didn't stop you would drown. The Spanish inquisition version used a funnel to get the water into the stomach and water was poured until the stomach distilled. Sometimes it would rupture on its own. Other times people would stomp on the stomach to get it to pop.

Hard leftists, take your lies somewhere else.

Pete, you are absolutely correct. The techniques were very different and the Japanese technique was often fatal.

You have to wonder if the Left is really as ignorant as they appear or if the truth is just unimportant and more often than not, an inconvenience for them

Peter1469
11-24-2016, 03:57 AM
Pete, you are absolutely correct. The techniques were very different and the Japanese technique was often fatal.

You have to wonder if the Left is really as ignorant as they appear or if the truth is just unimportant and more often than not, an inconvenience for them

The hard left gets so invested in emotion that they commonly misuse terms such as fascism, racism, and torture. It hurts their arguments. In English, words have meanings. And when we insist on expanding those meanings to suit our political agenda, we all lose.

del
11-24-2016, 09:05 AM
pathetic

resister
11-24-2016, 10:59 AM
pathetic

DEL is ^

birddog
11-24-2016, 11:14 AM
Most of the detainees at Gitmo should have been executed years ago, not waterboarded!

resister
11-24-2016, 11:17 AM
Most of the detainees at Gitmo should have been executed years ago, not waterboarded!Obama will probably pardon them,give em a settlement and then apologize on our behalf

Tahuyaman
11-24-2016, 11:43 AM
Here is another example of the hard left passing on talking points without understanding a word in the post before they hit Post Reply.

This is not only unbelievably stupid, it is either sloppy fact checking (like Rolling Stone) or it is a deliberate lie.

And with the hard left, it could very well be both. :smiley:

The water boarding techniques used by the Imperial Japanese was nothing like what was used by America and her allies in the GWOT (I know, stupid name).

The Japanese version was meant to possibly kill - water was poured directly into the mouth. If they didn't stop you would drown. The Spanish inquisition version used a funnel to get the water into the stomach and water was poured until the stomach distilled. Sometimes it would rupture on its own. Other times people would stomp on the stomach to get it to pop.

Hard leftists, take your lies somewhere else.

Yes, shoving the equivalent of a fire hose down one's throat, then turning on the water from a fire hydrant isn't waterboarding.

Peter1469
11-24-2016, 12:05 PM
Yes, shoving the equivalent of a fire hose down one's throat, then turning on the water from a fire hydrant isn't waterboarding.

Not the way the US does it.

Tahuyaman
11-24-2016, 12:53 PM
Not the way the US does it.

I get the humor there. The hand wringers on the left don't.