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View Full Version : Has tax deferred retirement become the greatest wealth redistribtor of all time?



donttread
12-18-2014, 08:54 AM
I've realized for a long time that since the popularization of the IRA and its successor the 401K , which has fiscally strong armed everyman into the Stock Market, the super rich keep getting richer. Some estimates show that the top .1 percent have actually more than doubled their percentage of wealth held since the mid 80's. I believe that is about when tax deferred retirement plans were getting popular.
I see a very strong connection . By penalizing everyman for regular savings or local investment ( post tax of course) and encouraging him into a stock market he knows little about and has less time to learn the effect has been trending investment away from local economies, a public more willing to bail out Wall Street and richer rich people. Not a lot of gain however for the average hard working investor.
I just got statements on a long dead account from the ghost of employers past and in the past 7 years I made maybe 12% total. I'm betting Pelosi, Bohner, and Wall Street all did better , huh?
I have not participated in this sham for a long time, but will likely be forced to by the sheer economics of retirement.
We the people have been had again!

Captain Obvious
12-18-2014, 08:59 AM
Retirement plan investments are not limited to stocks.

I would say most or much of the investments - the big chunks of dollars are in bonds actually so the same can and has been said about the public sector. The older you get (closer the retirement you are) typically the larger your retirement balance is and the less risk you want, ie: bonds, not stocks.

But, I don't look at it that way. If your retirement is in stocks then you, the middle class or whoever are the "capitalist". Making hogs into fatter pigs isn't what drives the capitalist wheels no matter what some fat rich guy ass sucking bucket carrier was programed to say.

Peter1469
12-18-2014, 09:41 AM
Are you hinting at the difference between an IRA and a Roth IRA?

A Roth is better since the gains are not taxed.

nic34
12-18-2014, 09:47 AM
Wall street sold you on IRAs and 401(k)s in order to get corporations off the hook for pension plans.

Yep, you are right..... BIG RIP OFF.

nic34
12-18-2014, 09:49 AM
Defined Benefit Vs. Defined Contribution Retirement Plans
http://20somethingfinance.com/defined-benefit-vs-defined-contribution-retirement-plans/

Peter1469
12-18-2014, 09:50 AM
Wall street sold you on IRAs and 401(k)s in order to get corporations off the hook for pension plans.

Yep, you are right..... BIG RIP OFF.

Pension plans were unsustainable. Ever hear of the word Ponzi Scheme? They destroyed the US auto industry.

Peter1469
12-18-2014, 09:53 AM
I believe that the younger generation would be per se against pensions. Nobody is going to get a job out of college and stay for 20 - 30 years. They are going to move jobs perhaps a dozen times over their live.

The pension system is dead and gone.

Captain Obvious
12-18-2014, 10:50 AM
Wall street sold you on IRAs and 401(k)s in order to get corporations off the hook for pension plans.

Yep, you are right..... BIG RIP OFF.

I don't think that's what he's saying. I could be wrong.

donttread
12-18-2014, 03:37 PM
Retirement plan investments are not limited to stocks.

I would say most or much of the investments - the big chunks of dollars are in bonds actually so the same can and has been said about the public sector. The older you get (closer the retirement you are) typically the larger your retirement balance is and the less risk you want, ie: bonds, not stocks.

But, I don't look at it that way. If your retirement is in stocks then you, the middle class or whoever are the "capitalist". Making hogs into fatter pigs isn't what drives the capitalist wheels no matter what some fat rich guy ass sucking bucket carrier was programed to say.

In the grand scheme of things what is the difference. The money is going to Wall Street instead of Main Street

Redrose
12-18-2014, 04:32 PM
I've realized for a long time that since the popularization of the IRA and its successor the 401K , which has fiscally strong armed everyman into the Stock Market, the super rich keep getting richer. Some estimates show that the top .1 percent have actually more than doubled their percentage of wealth held since the mid 80's. I believe that is about when tax deferred retirement plans were getting popular.
I see a very strong connection . By penalizing everyman for regular savings or local investment ( post tax of course) and encouraging him into a stock market he knows little about and has less time to learn the effect has been trending investment away from local economies, a public more willing to bail out Wall Street and richer rich people. Not a lot of gain however for the average hard working investor.
I just got statements on a long dead account from the ghost of employers past and in the past 7 years I made maybe 12% total. I'm betting Pelosi, Bohner, and Wall Street all did better , huh?
I have not participated in this sham for a long time, but will likely be forced to by the sheer economics of retirement.
We the people have been had again!


Diversify.

donttread
12-18-2014, 04:39 PM
Diversify.

The point is that the government is controlling my investments and favoring Wall street. Defer taxes on local investments instead of Wall street