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Bob
12-18-2014, 05:39 PM
9912

Bob
12-18-2014, 05:55 PM
I Questioned the $30 and #10 dollar figures so found this study by MIT.

http://web.mit.edu/hsr-group/documents/showcase_JC.pdf

As to be expected, while true, it still depends on factors.

Don
12-18-2014, 06:54 PM
Maybe we should block crude from Canada. Let them build a few refineries and then we'll talk about rail shipping or piping the finished product here.

Common Sense
12-18-2014, 07:00 PM
Maybe we should block crude from Canada. Let them build a few refineries and then we'll talk about rail shipping or piping the finished product here.

LOL...go for it.

hanger4
12-18-2014, 07:50 PM
Now now Bob only the Koch brothers are evil. Obama for Buffets is perfectly acceptable.

Green Arrow
12-18-2014, 08:20 PM
And who benefits from allowing the pipeline, Bob? TransCanada, but not Americans.

hanger4
12-18-2014, 08:35 PM
And who benefits from allowing the pipeline, Bob? TransCanada, but not Americans.

The refineries on the Gulf Coast, since there isnít enough oil in the area anymore to feed those refineries.

Green Arrow
12-18-2014, 08:38 PM
The refineries on the Gulf Coast, since there isn’t enough oil in the area anymore to feed those refineries.

And the Americans that lose their land and homes to a foreign corporation?

Bob
12-18-2014, 08:40 PM
And who benefits from allowing the pipeline, @Bob (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1013)? TransCanada, but not Americans.

Curiously enough. American get jobs either way.

The benefit of the pipeline is lower prices to Americans for the finished product.

Bob
12-18-2014, 08:41 PM
And the Americans that lose their land and homes to a foreign corporation?

Where did that come from? Nobody loses homes nor land. They have various options to earn money.

Bob
12-18-2014, 08:42 PM
Maybe we should block crude from Canada. Let them build a few refineries and then we'll talk about rail shipping or piping the finished product here.

Does Canada know how to refine crude?

Green Arrow
12-18-2014, 08:47 PM
Curiously enough. American get jobs either way.

How many? Even TransCanada only estimates about 9,000 jobs, and a State Department study projects only 35 jobs. Not enough to improve our unemployment problem.


The benefit of the pipeline is lower prices to Americans for the finished product.

How much? Most of the oil is being shipped to other countries once it reaches the Gulf. We likely won't get enough to significantly impact oil prices, and I seriously doubt the Americans losing their land and homes to a foreign corporation give a shit about gas prices.

Bob
12-18-2014, 08:49 PM
How many? Even TransCanada only estimates about 9,000 jobs, and a State Department study projects only 35 jobs. Not enough to improve our unemployment problem.



How much? Most of the oil is being shipped to other countries once it reaches the Gulf. We likely won't get enough to significantly impact oil prices, and I seriously doubt the Americans losing their land and homes to a foreign corporation give a shit about gas prices.

How many jobs if they keep shipping it by rail? All jobs are welcome jobs.

I still don't believe that the oil must go to other countries given this country uses fuels also.

What is this crap people lose homes or land?

That is not how it works.

PolWatch
12-18-2014, 08:50 PM
Let Calif benefit from a pipeline... See how they like spills on their beaches.

Bob
12-18-2014, 08:51 PM
Let Calif benefit from a pipeline... See how they like spills on their beaches.

We and you have a lot of miles of pipes but no ruined beaches.

Green Arrow
12-18-2014, 08:56 PM
How many jobs if they keep shipping it by rail? All jobs are welcome jobs.

It's impossible to estimate how many jobs, but ALL sources involved, including TransCanada themselves, puts the number low enough that it won't make a dent in our unemployment crisis.


I still don't believe that the oil must go to other countries given this country uses fuels also.

I don't care if you believe it or not, it's a fact. We are already producing more oil than we need, so most (if not all) of that oil shipped by Keystone will be exported.


What is this crap people lose homes or land?

That is not how it works.

Yes it is, Bob. TransCanada themselves admitted to having to use eminent domain on 2% of landowners in their way.

Bob
12-18-2014, 09:09 PM
It's impossible to estimate how many jobs, but ALL sources involved, including TransCanada themselves, puts the number low enough that it won't make a dent in our unemployment crisis.



I don't care if you believe it or not, it's a fact. We are already producing more oil than we need, so most (if not all) of that oil shipped by Keystone will be exported.



Yes it is, Bob. TransCanada themselves admitted to having to use eminent domain on 2% of landowners in their way.

You forget my expertise on eminent domain. You said they lose land. Prove they lose land.

You said they lose homes. Prove that.

Then prove the oil is exported.

I personally don't give a good GD if you like the pipeline or not, the oil will be on the market even if you can't stand it.

When you talk real estate pal, you are up my alley.

Green Arrow
12-18-2014, 09:21 PM
If you need me to prove that people lose land when eminent domain is used against them, you clearly don't understand how eminent domain works, and frankly I'm not going to play this game with you. You love to teach the forum, start by teaching yourself.

zelmo1234
12-18-2014, 09:36 PM
And who benefits from allowing the pipeline, @Bob (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1013)? TransCanada, but not Americans.

Yes because lower energy prices are a bitch!

Alyosha
12-18-2014, 09:37 PM
Bob

Eminent Domain is all about removing private property rights from the people for the benefit of the state under the guise of "for the greater good".

Why are you ignoring Green Arrow when he's trying to shed some truth into this tale?

PolWatch
12-18-2014, 09:37 PM
I paid $2.25 a gallon today...I kinda liked it

Green Arrow
12-18-2014, 09:38 PM
Yes because lower energy prices are a bitch!

We'll have low energy prices with or without Keystone.

PolWatch
12-18-2014, 09:41 PM
I have family in Houston that have trying to buy a house for 6 months...they haven't been able to find one because they are being snapped up as fast as they go on the market. Maybe things like this are why:

The United States (http://www.usalawyer.org) is in the midst of another energy production boom and, by 2020, could be producing more oil than global leader Saudi Arabia.
One place that knows all about the impact an oil rush can have is Texas (http://www.txlawyerhelp.com) city of Kilgore.
http://www.txlawyerhelp.com/2013/04/kilgore-texas-experiencing-oil-boom/

Green Arrow
12-18-2014, 09:50 PM
Bob -

TransCanada uses eminent domain to seize American property (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2014/02/24/foreign-company-tries-to-seize-u-s-land-for-keystone-pipeline/) (also includes many links within the article)

Impossible to tell where the oil will go, but supply and demand of U.S. oil indicates most will be exported to other countries (http://money.cnn.com/2013/09/16/news/economy/keystone-oil/)

Bob
12-18-2014, 11:03 PM
@Bob (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1013) -

TransCanada uses eminent domain to seize American property (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2014/02/24/foreign-company-tries-to-seize-u-s-land-for-keystone-pipeline/) (also includes many links within the article)

Impossible to tell where the oil will go, but supply and demand of U.S. oil indicates most will be exported to other countries (http://money.cnn.com/2013/09/16/news/economy/keystone-oil/)

What happens when eminent domain is used vs the people?

I want to have you learn it.

I wonder since you think the oil from canada will get exported, why do you care? It provides a revenue to the people on the land of the pipeline and jobs and maintenance and who knows what all.

del
12-18-2014, 11:06 PM
Curiously enough. American get jobs either way.

The benefit of the pipeline is lower prices to Americans for the finished product.


:rofl:

yeah, right

Green Arrow
12-18-2014, 11:06 PM
What happens when eminent domain is used vs the people?

Private land is seized for public use. In this case, private land is being seized for use by a foreign corporation.


I wonder since you think the oil from canada will get exported, why do you care? It provides a revenue to the people on the land of the pipeline and jobs and maintenance and who knows what all.

I care because I think it's a shitty deal. If we're going to let them drop a pipeline across our nation, and WE have to deal with any ill effects and not them, then we need to be getting the better part of that deal.

Instead, we're pretty much letting them do anything they want and getting shit in return.

del
12-18-2014, 11:08 PM
You forget my expertise on eminent domain. You said they lose land. Prove they lose land.

You said they lose homes. Prove that.

Then prove the oil is exported.

I personally don't give a good GD if you like the pipeline or not, the oil will be on the market even if you can't stand it.

When you talk real estate pal, you are up my alley.

lol

Bob
12-18-2014, 11:10 PM
I want to tell you all about eminent domain laws.
A. If I pay for your car, and the law allows it, what have you lost? Bear in mind, you were paid.

B. Pipelines are either above ground or below ground

In either case, it is wise to lay pipeline over bare ground with no buildings in the way. Clearly this is how oil pipes are laid. Being you got paid, what have you lost? Also, you can earn cash from them on a regular basis if you set things up right.

When you hear GA tell you it got seized, all he means is they got paid cash for a strip of land. At fair market value.

Bob
12-18-2014, 11:14 PM
I have family in Houston that have trying to buy a house for 6 months...they haven't been able to find one because they are being snapped up as fast as they go on the market. Maybe things like this are why:

The United States (http://www.usalawyer.org) is in the midst of another energy production boom and, by 2020, could be producing more oil than global leader Saudi Arabia.
One place that knows all about the impact an oil rush can have is Texas (http://www.txlawyerhelp.com) city of Kilgore.
http://www.txlawyerhelp.com/2013/04/kilgore-texas-experiencing-oil-boom/

Watch the public get jobs now that prices for fuel are falling. It will restore the market just as I have been saying since things fell off. Yes, homes get so valuable prices do go up.

del
12-18-2014, 11:15 PM
I want to tell you all about eminent domain laws.
A. If I pay for your car, and the law allows it, what have you lost? Bear in mind, you were paid.

B. Pipelines are either above ground or below ground

In either case, it is wise to lay pipeline over bare ground with no buildings in the way. Clearly this is how oil pipes are laid. Being you got paid, what have you lost? Also, you can earn cash from them on a regular basis if you set things up right.

When you hear GA tell you it got seized, all he means is they got paid cash for a strip of land. At fair market value.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDoIM1dRzGo

Bob
12-18-2014, 11:15 PM
We'll have low energy prices with or without Keystone.

Obama is proud you are on his side.

Bob
12-18-2014, 11:17 PM
I paid $2.25 a gallon today...I kinda liked it

Most of what you buy takes fuel to get it to you. Prices fall, so does your cost of food, and the rest of things you buy. You have a multiplier effect for low fuel prices in your favor.

Bob
12-18-2014, 11:18 PM
And who benefits from allowing the pipeline, @Bob (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1013)? TransCanada, but not Americans.

Landowners collect cash. They don't donate the property. If they are smart, they work out a monthly rental deal with the company.

del
12-18-2014, 11:19 PM
Most of what you buy takes fuel to get it to you. Prices fall, so does your cost of food, and the rest of things you buy. You have a multiplier effect for low fuel prices in your favor.

wow, bob

you can't pick up that kind of expertise just anywhere

it takes the finely tuned mind of a realtor

Bob
12-18-2014, 11:23 PM
@Bob (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1013)

Eminent Domain is all about removing private property rights from the people for the benefit of the state under the guise of "for the greater good".

Why are you ignoring @Green Arrow (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=868) when he's trying to shed some truth into this tale?

He lies by saying the land is seized. It is paid for or used as an easement or rented by the year or longer term.

Smart land owners get the better deals.

Green Arrow
12-18-2014, 11:24 PM
Obama is proud you are on his side.

I'm not on Obama's side. I oppose Keystone, he does not.

Green Arrow
12-18-2014, 11:25 PM
He lies by saying the land is seized. It is paid for or used as an easement or rented by the year or longer term.

Smart land owners get the better deals.

I didn't lie. I told you what eminent domain is and that TransCanada admitted to having to use eminent domain on 2% of landowners in their way. They worked out voluntary arrangements with the other 98%. What you describe is voluntary agreements, not eminent domain.

Bob
12-18-2014, 11:36 PM
I didn't lie. I told you what eminent domain is and that TransCanada admitted to having to use eminent domain on 2% of landowners in their way. They worked out voluntary arrangements with the other 98%. What you describe is voluntary agreements, not eminent domain.

Stop pretending you understand the law. Give it up.

I studied this in college for gods sake. I know just what it is.

Being paid is not seized. Hell, the land is still right where it always was.

Green Arrow
12-18-2014, 11:42 PM
Stop pretending you understand the law. Give it up.

I studied this in college for gods sake. I know just what it is.

Being paid is not seized. Hell, the land is still right where it always was.

You know what, Bob, kiss my ass.

Bob
12-18-2014, 11:47 PM
You know what, Bob, kiss my ass.

Fucking Eminent Domain is part of the constitution. You don't know the law. I get tired of your pretentions.

And one more thing, payment must be FAIR and be paid.

They sell it, it is not seized. And it is Government doing it, not Trans Canada.

Bob
12-18-2014, 11:55 PM
My law book discussing eminent domain law does not even use the word seized. And it is constitutional. The supreme law of the land. It also states owners get fair payment or the process can't happen.

Bob
12-19-2014, 12:04 AM
What is EMINENT DOMAIN?Eminent domain (http://thelawdictionary.org/eminent-domain/) is the right of the people or government to take private property (http://thelawdictionary.org/private-property/) for public use. Code Civ. rroc. Cal.



Law Dictionary: What is EMINENT DOMAIN? definition of EMINENT DOMAIN (Black's Law Dictionary) (http://thelawdictionary.org/eminent-domain/#ixzz3MJx50kEe)

This right is higher than the owners right. This is the right of the people. Not Transcanada.

Property must be appraised and said value paid to the owner.

Bob
12-19-2014, 12:10 AM
Seizure

Let's say you deal in drugs. The law provides that the law upon finding your drugs, cash and say your auto, or even your home if found there. that the law can seize all of that.

There you do not get paid.

GA, seizure in law is very carefully defined.

I call bull shit to your claim the land is seized because you just don't know law.

You are welcome for the law lesson.

Peter1469
12-19-2014, 05:37 AM
I learned a lot. You people should thank Bob.

hanger4
12-19-2014, 07:14 AM
I learned a lot. You people should thank Bob.

Bob may be a lot of things, a bit long winded from time to time, sometimes out there, but he dang near spot on about Keystone P. Price of gas in the US mostly won't be affected. Good part we can replace Venezuelan oil with Canuck oil.

Common Sense
12-19-2014, 07:58 AM
Hey Bob, you don't mind if I run this pipeline through your backyard....don't worry, you'll get some money so it's OK.

hanger4
12-19-2014, 08:11 AM
Hey Bob, you don't mind if I run this pipeline through your backyard....don't worry, you'll get some money so it's OK.

Above ground or buried ??

Common Sense
12-19-2014, 08:16 AM
Above ground or buried ??

Above ground...next to his above ground swimming pool.

hanger4
12-19-2014, 08:21 AM
Above ground...next to his above ground swimming pool.

Charge more for *above ground*. Gots to mow around, might seperate your land, gota build bridges.

Green Arrow
12-19-2014, 10:10 AM
I learned a lot. You people should thank Bob.

You're joking.

Bob
12-19-2014, 01:38 PM
I learned a lot. You people should thank Bob.

Thanks Peter1469. I do honestly come trying to help people out. If they want to talk divorce law, check with someone else. All I tried to do for Green Arrow, given he broke into my thread (not that I mind) is help him sharpen up when it comes to legal terms in my field of commerce.

Bob
12-19-2014, 01:44 PM
Hey Bob, you don't mind if I run this pipeline through your backyard....don't worry, you'll get some money so it's OK.

This is not my first rodeo concerning eminent domain. I realize to most of you, it is new territory.

This law is buried in the constitution that so many of you assume you know so well. Peter is a lawyer. I know very well in law school, he covered this. But law is super broad. It covers so many issues. It is not normal for a lawyer in criminal work to think about eminent domain.

I am not paying attention to your claim since this is not the issue.

Somebody said, buried or above ground. A lot of pipe lines get buried. Some, for instance the Hetch Hetchy pipeline not far from me, do both. Where it is underground, you might not know it exists. Above ground, you see it. The USA is a vast pipeline area. A lot of you could learn this if you checked out our pipeline system.

Bob
12-19-2014, 01:45 PM
You're joking.

No, he saw value. I offered it to you, but you don't want value.

Bob
12-19-2014, 01:47 PM
Hey Bob, you don't mind if I run this pipeline through your backyard....don't worry, you'll get some money so it's OK.
Green Arrow claimed the land is seized. I say it is compensated for. Get your judge and I will deal with you when I have to.

Bob
12-19-2014, 01:55 PM
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Peter1469 http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=886909#post886909)
I learned a lot. You people should thank Bob.


@Bob (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1013) may be a lot of things, a bit long winded from time to time, sometimes out there, but he dang near spot on about Keystone P. Price of gas in the US mostly won't be affected. Good part we can replace Venezuelan oil with Canuck oil.

Some of you still don't believe in the law of supply and demand. The oil from Canada will flow on a regular fashion to be refined. More oil translates to lower prices.

When Canada's oil reaches market, it does affect Venezuela and Saudi Arabia. No doubt at all. I don't care if the USA does not use a drop of the oil, just so it reaches the market.

Polecat
12-19-2014, 05:32 PM
I'd rather see a Putin style resolution to all this greed. Declare imminent domain of Buffy's choo choo monopoly and give him a big shiny penny for it. He accepts it as payment in full or his body is never found.