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Peter1469
12-19-2014, 07:41 PM
Smithsonian Admits to Destruction of Thousands of Giant Human Skeletons in Early 1900′s - See more (http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/smithsonian-admits-to-destruction-of-thousands-of-giant-human-skeletons-in-early-1900s/#sthash.Q0r0lDFq.dpuf)

These are common stories that most have heard. Now they may take their place in the world of science.


The allegations stemming from the American Institution of Alternative Archeology (AIAA) that the Smithsonian Institution had destroyed thousands of giant human remains during the early 1900′s was not taken lightly by the Smithsonian who responded by suing the organization for defamation and trying to damage the reputation of the 168-year old institution.



During the court case, new elements were brought to light as several Smithsonian whistle blowers admitted to the existence of documents that allegedly proved the destruction of tens of thousands of human skeletons reaching between 6 feet and 12 feet in height, a reality mainstream archeology can not admit to for different reasons, claims AIAA spokesman, James Churward.
- See more at: http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/smithsonian-admits-to-destruction-of-thousands-of-giant-human-skeletons-in-early-1900s/#sthash.Q0r0lDFq.dpuf


«There has been a major cover up by western archaeological institutions since the early 1900′s to make us believe that America was first colonized by Asian peoples migrating through the Bering Strait 15,000 years ago, when in fact, there are hundreds of thousands of burial mounds all over America which the Natives claim were there a long time before them, and that show traces of a highly developed civilization, complex use of metal alloys and where giant human skeleton remains are frequently found but still go unreported in the media and news outlets» he explains. - See more at: http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/smithsonian-admits-to-destruction-of-thousands-of-giant-human-skeletons-in-early-1900s/#sthash.Q0r0lDFq.dpuf

Cthulhu
12-19-2014, 08:19 PM
Eradicating traces of the Nephilim?

Peter1469
12-19-2014, 08:42 PM
Yes, I would think so.

Green Arrow
12-19-2014, 09:03 PM
I'd agree with that, Cthulhu.

Peter1469
12-19-2014, 09:07 PM
The bible is clear on the subject.

Alyosha
12-19-2014, 09:08 PM
Or Bigfoot.

Green Arrow
12-19-2014, 09:12 PM
Or Bigfoot.

Or both and more.

Peter1469
12-19-2014, 09:15 PM
Not bigfoot. That is a primitive creature.

These are giants. Nephilim.



Hebrew (MT)
English (JPS)


ד הַנְּפִלִים הָיוּ בָאָרֶץ, בַּיָּמִים הָהֵם, וְגַם אַחֲרֵי-כֵן אֲשֶׁר יָבֹאוּ בְּנֵי הָאֱלֹהִים אֶל-בְּנוֹת הָאָדָם, וְיָלְדוּ לָהֶם: הֵמָּה הַגִּבֹּרִים אֲשֶׁר מֵעוֹלָם, אַנְשֵׁי הַשֵּׁם.
4 The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them; the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown.

Bob
12-19-2014, 09:26 PM
That seems strange for such a fine museum to do something like that. Those museums are awesome.

Peter1469
12-19-2014, 09:27 PM
Yes, they are Bob.

Dr. Who
12-19-2014, 09:34 PM
Not bigfoot. That is a primitive creature.

These are giants. Nephilim.



Hebrew (MT)
English (JPS)


ד הַנְּפִלִים הָיוּ בָאָרֶץ, בַּיָּמִים הָהֵם, וְגַם אַחֲרֵי-כֵן אֲשֶׁר יָבֹאוּ בְּנֵי הָאֱלֹהִים אֶל-בְּנוֹת הָאָדָם, וְיָלְדוּ לָהֶם: הֵמָּה הַגִּבֹּרִים אֲשֶׁר מֵעוֹלָם, אַנְשֵׁי הַשֵּׁם.
4 The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them; the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC8wWsBKc88

Bob
12-19-2014, 09:45 PM
This report is an investigation of the skeletons.

http://www.apmagazine.info/index.php/component/content/article?id=546

Alyosha
12-19-2014, 09:53 PM
So I could go right now to the courts page and download this? I feel like I can't get too excited only to be squashed because some tricksey hobbitses was trying to have their way with me.

Dr. Who
12-19-2014, 10:08 PM
So I could go right now to the courts page and download this? I feel like I can't get too excited only to be squashed because some tricksey hobbitses was trying to have their way with me.
I'm afraid Snopes says it's fake - beware any story from World News Daily Report:
http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/giantcoverup.asp
http://badsatiretoday.com/smithsonian-admits-destroying-giant-skeletons-1900s/

Sorry Pete. But the skeletons in the middle east look real enough.

Peter1469
12-19-2014, 10:54 PM
I'm afraid Snopes says it's fake - beware any story from World News Daily Report:
http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/giantcoverup.asp
http://badsatiretoday.com/smithsonian-admits-destroying-giant-skeletons-1900s/

Sorry Pete. But the skeletons in the middle east look real enough.

I understand people don't like the story.


A turning point of the court case was when a 1.3 meter long human femur bone was shown as evidence in court of the existence of such giant human bones. The evidence came as a blow to the Smithsonian’s lawyers as the bone had been stolen from the Smithsonian by one of their high level curators in the mid 1930′s who had kept the bone all his life and which had admitted on his deathbed in writing of the undercover operations of the Smithsonian. - See more at: http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/smithsonian-admits-to-destruction-of-thousands-of-giant-human-skeletons-in-early-1900s/#sthash.Q0r0lDFq.jmgvrpVD.dpuf

Green Arrow
12-19-2014, 10:55 PM
I'm afraid Snopes says it's fake - beware any story from World News Daily Report:
http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/giantcoverup.asp
http://badsatiretoday.com/smithsonian-admits-destroying-giant-skeletons-1900s/

Sorry Pete. But the skeletons in the middle east look real enough.

Does that mean it's actually fake? I mean think about it. Why is Snopes always right?

Cthulhu
12-19-2014, 11:24 PM
I understand people don't like the story.

I think people just can't fathom the existence of giants. When I see creatures like the Elephant for example, I think "Well, why not humans that size?" Why do animals have the monopoly on large size?

I think it just happened to work out that the species grew smaller and smaller due to less resources being needed to sustain an individual.

Of course, they could also have been annihilated as per the Genesis readings for a reason. Of which I am also inclined to believe. Certain forms of life were not meant to be here. I think the Nephilim are essentially a by product of prehistoric and unauthorized genetic engineering.

I think the ancient humans were smarter than we will ever know. I also think they did things they knew they shouldn't have. Hence their destruction by God.

My two cents.

Dr. Who
12-19-2014, 11:25 PM
Does that mean it's actually fake? I mean think about it. Why is Snopes always right?
The only way to know is to check out the Supreme court cases. I was looking for the decision when I found the Snopes report. I can try looking again.

Dr. Who
12-19-2014, 11:48 PM
I looked at the last two years of decisions released by the US Supreme Court and couldn't find one where the Smithsonian was named as a party. It doesn't necessarily mean that the story about the Smithsonian destroying the bones is a lie, only the court case.

Dr. Who
12-20-2014, 12:38 AM
I think people just can't fathom the existence of giants. When I see creatures like the Elephant for example, I think "Well, why not humans that size?" Why do animals have the monopoly on large size?

I think it just happened to work out that the species grew smaller and smaller due to less resources being needed to sustain an individual.

Of course, they could also have been annihilated as per the Genesis readings for a reason. Of which I am also inclined to believe. Certain forms of life were not meant to be here. I think the Nephilim are essentially a by product of prehistoric and unauthorized genetic engineering.

I think the ancient humans were smarter than we will ever know. I also think they did things they knew they shouldn't have. Hence their destruction by God.

My two cents.

I wonder whether the existence of Nephilim might help explain some of the mysteries surrounding the building of the pyramids. A 30 odd foot tall being might have an easier time hoisting those stones.

iustitia
12-20-2014, 01:21 AM
The term giant in the Bible is often taken out of context I believe. The Nephilim were just strong, tall men.

Peter1469
12-20-2014, 06:01 AM
The term giant in the Bible is often taken out of context I believe. The Nephilim were just strong, tall men.
Who were descended from the fallen angles. Don't forget that part.

Max Rockatansky
12-20-2014, 06:48 AM
I'm afraid Snopes says it's fake - beware any story from World News Daily Report:
http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/giantcoverup.asp
http://badsatiretoday.com/smithsonian-admits-destroying-giant-skeletons-1900s/

Sorry Pete. But the skeletons in the middle east look real enough.

Agreed.


There are a number of factors in the first two paragraphs of the claim that conflict with the standard template for fake news, but the article also follows that formula in several ways. On the latter score, searches for the "American Institution of Alternative Archeology (AIAA)" point back either to the article itself or other pages referencing it, a strong indicator that organization does not exist. Furthermore, the claim regarding the Smithsonian guarding classified documents is unusual: The earliest technically classified documents in the United States go back only as far as World War I (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/04/20/135564718/cia-reveals-its-six-oldest-classified-documents-now-we-can-all-read-them) (which America entered in 1917), whereas the discovery of giant skeletons is dated vaguely as occurring in the early 1900s. Prior to the first World War, the need to classify documents as we would today had not yet come to issue (due to America's relative then-isolated status), and such a measure would be even less likely to apply to a archaeological discovery.

An image World News Daily Report claimed was taken in Ohio in 2011 has existed on the internet since 2008, and prior references identify the location of the picture as Turkey (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=497521650263579&set=a.107762799239468.15219.100000172440870&type=1&theater), not Ohio. The date initially claimed of the image back then was that it was taken in the 1990s. Another image of "giant skulls" included with the article dated to a 2008 claim made on the web site of the Coast to Coast (http://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2008/12/03) radio program. (Misattributed images attached to news articles are almost always red flags the claims made in those articles are shaky.)

Yet another image frequently attached to other versions of the claim depict Edouard Beaupre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fransaskois#mediaviewer/File:Edouard_Beaupre.JPG), a French-Canadian man afflicted with gigantism who died in 1904. A sideshow celebrity at the time, Beaupre's existence was hardly a secret and certainly not classified by the Smithsonian Institute. Finally, no such "Supreme Court" decision exists, and if it did, it would have been a matter of public record and widely reported in mainstream publications due to its notability.

Read more at http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/giantcoverup.asp#Uk99MrXCRLRXx3O7.99

Does anyone have a link to the Supreme Court decision?

Secondly, if these giant skeletons actually existed, why would only the Smithsonian have them?

Common
12-20-2014, 07:04 AM
Ok lots of times I read threads and someone comes up with something to make me feel dumb. Cthulu did it this time with "Nephilim" So I had to run to look it up but thats a good thing thats how you learn.

Question is did they really exist or do we know they existed. Statement, I dont know how they could keep 12ft skeletons from being reported today. Article said they still find them.

Last I dont trust any science that depends on grants or donations. They always have to come up with something sensational to show progress to keep those grants and donations. Its the only way they make a living.

Polecat
12-20-2014, 10:15 AM
Any theories on why the existence of prehistoric giants might need to be hidden?

Peter1469
12-20-2014, 10:21 AM
Any theories on why the existence of prehistoric giants might need to be hidden?

Absolutely. Our past is being hidden from us.

Polecat
12-20-2014, 10:44 AM
Absolutely. Our past is being hidden from us.

Got a why to go with that? With the lack of any proof of what happened so long ago all we can do is speculate on the bits of evidence that we have found.

Peter1469
12-20-2014, 10:54 AM
Got a why to go with that? With the lack of any proof of what happened so long ago all we can do is speculate on the bits of evidence that we have found.
It is probably all about control. Why do you think?

Polecat
12-20-2014, 11:03 AM
It is probably all about control. Why do you think?

You seem to be unwilling to step out on a limb with your own thoughts. Control of what? You go first. Then I will spin my tale.

Common Sense
12-20-2014, 11:05 AM
If there was actual evidence, I doubt it would be able to be covered up.

It's an interesting fable, but if there were a race of giants, there would be legitimate proof.

Peter1469
12-20-2014, 11:08 AM
It has been covered up. Suppressed.

Common Sense
12-20-2014, 11:09 AM
It has been covered up. Suppressed.

Why? By whom?

Polecat
12-20-2014, 11:13 AM
If there was actual evidence, I doubt it would be able to be covered up.

It's an interesting fable, but if there were a race of giants, there would be legitimate proof.

There is evidence. Proof however there is not. Just about every culture that had the ability to leave a written record has mentioned giants. This could be a coincidence. These writings could all be works of fiction too. We can not prove one way or the other what was factual. All we can do is speculate on the evidence.

Common Sense
12-20-2014, 11:29 AM
There is evidence. Proof however there is not. Just about every culture that had the ability to leave a written record has mentioned giants. This could be a coincidence. These writings could all be works of fiction too. We can not prove one way or the other what was factual. All we can do is speculate on the evidence.

There are lots of myths from varying cultures....and maybe there is some truth to it.

But archeologists have been searching for these giants since the beginning of archeology. As of yet there is no hard evidence of their existence. There are a lot of photoshopped fakes though.

Alyosha
12-20-2014, 11:38 AM
I intend to go back and finish my history PhD with @Ethereal (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=870) next fall so I can be Laura Croft. I had a dual Masters and archaeology allowed me to make use of many of the science courses toward degree I would have had in undergrad when I dabbled with the idea of Environmental Law instead of Criminal (what was I thinking???). So, I have some experience with bones, degradation, and fossilization. Geology was my favorite major in undergrad and made up a huge portion of my masters. Fossils are a part of the study of geology due to mineralization.

The above preface is so that I can explain why I can still remain open to "giants", and that is because it is very difficult to preserve bones at all past even a single season, much less thousands of years. It requires near-perfect conditions. That is why we had hundreds of millions of dinosaurs and unfortunately only thousands of bone sets. Given that something the size of a Brachiosaurus or even Super-Saurus would be much easier to preserve given their conditions and size, and we have very few full fossil sets I can't see why we'd expect to have bones of 10 ft tall humans.

Note: I say "thousands of bone sets" but I think it's still only in the hundreds. I'd have to check and I don't feel like googling right now.

Calypso Jones
12-20-2014, 11:39 AM
Does it bother you that scientists/archeologists find a few bone fragments and they come up with the whole fantasy of how these creatures looked, behaved, interacted with other species and the environment? What about the archeological discover of gigantopithecus? Or has that been covered over so it doesn't have to be considered? There were giant animals such as brachiosaur etc and there can be no extra tall men. Sure that video is fake but....

Peter1469
12-20-2014, 11:41 AM
The Bible tells us that there were giants.

Alyosha
12-20-2014, 11:41 AM
There are lots of myths from varying cultures....and maybe there is some truth to it.

But archeologists have been searching for these giants since the beginning of archeology. As of yet there is no hard evidence of their existence. There are a lot of photoshopped fakes though.

And evolutionary archaeologists have been searching for the perfect "missing link" and have yet to find it but we don't discount evolution in favor of creationism. We accept that there is basis for it outside the fossil record.

There is evidence from humans all over the world of "giants" which most people would not discount as they are from disparate sources.

Calypso Jones
12-20-2014, 11:45 AM
The Bible tells us that there were giants.

And what does Darwin say? or Carl Sagan? oh yeah...they're dead. They aren't saying anything.

Alyosha
12-20-2014, 11:47 AM
And what does Darwin say? or Carl Sagan? oh yeah...they're dead. They aren't saying anything.

1. Darwin did not actually come up with solid theory on evolution. He came up with the theory of adaption.

2. Carl Sagan discussed the cosmos, not evolution.

Peter1469
12-20-2014, 11:47 AM
And what does Darwin say? or Carl Sagan? oh yeah...they're dead. They aren't saying anything.

correct

Polecat
12-20-2014, 11:49 AM
There are lots of myths from varying cultures....and maybe there is some truth to it.

But archeologists have been searching for these giants since the beginning of archeology. As of yet there is no hard evidence of their existence. There are a lot of photoshopped fakes though.
Consider this: For whatever unknown reason the existence of giants has been deemed "Top Secret" at the same level as say UFOs. How does the CIA go about obscuring the evidence? One tactic that we know they use is to flood the populous with lots and lots of fake evidence.

Alyosha
12-20-2014, 11:56 AM
It is a fairly good assumption to make that when a government agency funds a department or program to investigate an anomaly they have more evidence than we do or else they wouldn't receive funding.

Calypso Jones
12-20-2014, 12:19 PM
1. Darwin did not actually come up with solid theory on evolution. He came up with the theory of adaption.

2. Carl Sagan discussed the cosmos, not evolution.

I feel confident that Sagan was on the side of Darwin.

Cthulhu
12-20-2014, 12:21 PM
Any theories on why the existence of prehistoric giants might need to be hidden?


Got a why to go with that? With the lack of any proof of what happened so long ago all we can do is speculate on the bits of evidence that we have found.

In a few words? Control and fear. Humans don't like things tougher than them. We collectively either gun it down or fling it in a cage and periodically poke it with a stick. Don't believe me? I will only point you towards your local zoo containing large predatory mammals.

Also, if it is given credence, people given time will try to recreate them, or take a serious look at searching for them. I am of the opinion that they still exist but simply cannot be discovered due to fear of annihilation or enslavement - their season is not yet arrived again. A giant might be tough, but so is an M1-Abrams tank. And a 120mm shell from a smooth bore cannon is no respecter of persons - giant or otherwise.

At the same time, when these artifacts are found, I suspect they are usually coupled with occult artifacts as well. I think the suppression and destruction of these artifacts is largely about keeping the concept of Lucifer out of mainstream recognition. You can't find an enemy you can't prove exists right?


Why? By whom?

In a few words? Lucifer, Apophis, World Serpent, Shaitan etc...you get the idea. Many cultures have their giant's tale, and many of them have an otherworldly unseen malevolent force to boot.

The 'who' indicates the 'why'. It's not a benevolent reason. Convincing humanity you don't exist is indeed a grand trick to pull off. But convincing humanity that your creations and servants don't exist either when there is actual physical proof? That is crafty.

Alyosha
12-20-2014, 12:33 PM
I feel confident that Sagan was on the side of Darwin.

You don't believe in adaption?

Calypso Jones
12-20-2014, 12:39 PM
would you define Adaptation just so I know we're talking about the same thing? thanks.

Actually, I'm positive that Sagan subscribed to Darwin. I was being sorta facetious. It's all over the internet if anyone is interested.

Polecat
12-20-2014, 12:41 PM
In a few words? Control and fear. Humans don't like things tougher than them. We collectively either gun it down or fling it in a cage and periodically poke it with a stick. Don't believe me? I will only point you towards your local zoo containing large predatory mammals.

Also, if it is given credence, people given time will try to recreate them, or take a serious look at searching for them. I am of the opinion that they still exist but simply cannot be discovered due to fear of annihilation or enslavement - their season is not yet arrived again. A giant might be tough, but so is an M1-Abrams tank. And a 120mm shell from a smooth bore cannon is no respecter of persons - giant or otherwise.

At the same time, when these artifacts are found, I suspect they are usually coupled with occult artifacts as well. I think the suppression and destruction of these artifacts is largely about keeping the concept of Lucifer out of mainstream recognition. You can't find an enemy you can't prove exists right?



In a few words? Lucifer, Apophis, World Serpent, Shaitan etc...you get the idea. Many cultures have their giant's tale, and many of them have an otherworldly unseen malevolent force to boot.

The 'who' indicates the 'why'. It's not a benevolent reason. Convincing humanity you don't exist is indeed a grand trick to pull off. But convincing humanity that your creations and servants don't exist either when there is actual physical proof? That is crafty.

I agree with your assessment of typical human behavior but it seems unlikely that we are in any position do anything if the giant is a set of bones other than study the remains. If they are living creatures being held/protected by the government just to keep us from killing them it still doesn't explain the need for absolute secrecy. I agree 100% however with the notion that their existence is of Satan and their function is not natural.

Alyosha
12-20-2014, 12:46 PM
would you define Adaptation just so I know we're talking about the same thing? thanks.

In Siberia tigers grew larger (more fatty) with a rougher coat of fur to adapt to the cold winters, whereas tigers in India have smoother fur and are smaller.

Basically the breeds with better survival skills, survive.

Common
12-20-2014, 12:50 PM
The tallest human ever recorded was 8' 11ins. If youre around 6' and ever stood next to someone 6'10 they would seem like a giant at only 10in taller. Now spread that some, people were shorter historically in history.
Get a person 5'5 put him next to someone 6' 10in now theres your giant.

Ill have to remain quite the skeptic over not only ONE 12 footer but of numberous 12 footers as the article indicates.

Personally I dont believe theres anyway to keep that a secret

Crepitus
12-20-2014, 01:07 PM
Sorry guys, Scaling up a human isn't real workable. Science rears it's ugly head:

Take a cube that is 1 foot square. It has a volume of 1 cubic foot and each side has an area of 1 square foot right? Now look at a cube that is 2 feet square. Twice as big? Not exactly. Each edge is 2 ft long, so the surface area is now 4 square feet, and the volume is now 8!

Now take a 6 foot tall 200 pound man. People are mostly water and weigh almost exactly what an equivalent amount of water does. Water weighs 64 pounds per cubic foot so he is the equivalent of a bit over 3 cubic feet of water. Now reduce him to a bunch of tiny cubes (it can be done) and double all the proportions to make him 12 feet tall and in proportion to himself. He's twice as tall, but also twice as thick and twice as wide. That means he weighs 8 times what he used to! 1600 pounds! It's even worse if you go for a 30 foot tall giant you're looking at something like 8 tonnes!

Now lets talk about bones. His leg bones are now twice as thick, 4 times in cross section, but have 8 times the weight they were carrying, so broken bones are now much more likely. His muscles have the same problem Strap 4 more people your size on and try to run around for the afternoon.

This isn't even taking into consideration your lungs. They are surface area (not volume) dependant so they would need to scale up at the same rate as your volume (in other words be 4 times the size they are in proportion to the rest of you now) to keep all your tissues oxygenated.

Max Rockatansky
12-20-2014, 01:09 PM
The Bible tells us that there were giants.
The Bible also tells us the Universe was created in six days and, by doing the math, it's only about 6000 years old. It also says Johah lived inside the belly of a great fish for 3 days.

Jonah 1:17
Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

Cthulhu
12-20-2014, 01:19 PM
I agree with your assessment of typical human behavior but it seems unlikely that we are in any position do anything if the giant is a set of bones other than study the remains. If they are living creatures being held/protected by the government just to keep us from killing them it still doesn't explain the need for absolute secrecy. I agree 100% however with the notion that their existence is of Satan and their function is not natural.

If we knew they existed and had a walking talking group of them, only a few options exist as to how it would work out:

1. Annihilation - most probable.
2. Enslavement - not likely. See option 1.
3. Worship - The worst option. The most dangerous option. What knowledge could they teach us? Is it knowledge that we should have? Not all knowledge that is had should be spread around. Particularly to warlike humans.
4. Peaceful Coexistence - Ummm...humans haven't even figured that one out, what makes one think it will work with giants?

Cthulhu
12-20-2014, 01:21 PM
The tallest human ever recorded was 8' 11ins. If youre around 6' and ever stood next to someone 6'10 they would seem like a giant at only 10in taller. Now spread that some, people were shorter historically in history.
Get a person 5'5 put him next to someone 6' 10in now theres your giant.

Ill have to remain quite the skeptic over not only ONE 12 footer but of numberous 12 footers as the article indicates.

Personally I dont believe theres anyway to keep that a secret

Indeed, you can't keep it a secret. Hence the myriad of misinformation that is spread about it. If you can't conceal it, obscure it, and bury it in BS so that nobody can tell the difference between fact and fiction.

It's an old tactic.

Calypso Jones
12-20-2014, 01:25 PM
We will never know how much evidence has been destroyed or hidden away because it does not adhere to the scientific dogma being perpetuated.

There is a record of many giants, their descriptions, in some instances their names, IN the Bible. Goliath was one and he had 4 or 5 brothers. David as well as his mighty men of Valor (36 of them) killed more than one giant in their day.

Goliath was 9feet 6 inches tall. There is a record in the bible of course, of an Egyptian giant that one of David's men fought.

Cthulhu
12-20-2014, 01:33 PM
Sorry guys, Scaling up a human isn't real workable. Science rears it's ugly head:

Take a cube that is 1 foot square. It has a volume of 1 cubic foot and each side has an area of 1 square foot right? Now look at a cube that is 2 feet square. Twice as big? Not exactly. Each edge is 2 ft long, so the surface area is now 4 square feet, and the volume is now 8!

Now take a 6 foot tall 200 pound man. People are mostly water and weigh almost exactly what an equivalent amount of water does. Water weighs 64 pounds per cubic foot so he is the equivalent of a bit over 3 cubic feet of water. Now reduce him to a bunch of tiny cubes (it can be done) and double all the proportions to make him 12 feet tall and in proportion to himself. He's twice as tall, but also twice as thick and twice as wide. That means he weighs 8 times what he used to! 1600 pounds! It's even worse if you go for a 30 foot tall giant you're looking at something like 8 tonnes!

Now lets talk about bones. His leg bones are now twice as thick, 4 times in cross section, but have 8 times the weight they were carrying, so broken bones are now much more likely. His muscles have the same problem Strap 4 more people your size on and try to run around for the afternoon.

This isn't even taking into consideration your lungs. They are surface area (not volume) dependant so they would need to scale up at the same rate as your volume (in other words be 4 times the size they are in proportion to the rest of you now) to keep all your tissues oxygenated.

Well, nobody said they were all 30' tall. Because indeed the science gets in they way.

But then I am reminded of the spiritual aspect of the Nephilim. And also the accounts of herculean strength accorded to those who are possessed by demons. The science might not pan out, but that is where the supernatural (I E the forces unquantified via science) take up the slack.

At the same time, we have fossils of the T-Rex, it only had two legs with an average height of 15-20 feet with varying weight estimations.

So it may not be required to have supernatural assistance to survive.

Basically, we don't know.

Polecat
12-20-2014, 01:37 PM
If we knew they existed and had a walking talking group of them, only a few options exist as to how it would work out:

1. Annihilation - most probable.
2. Enslavement - not likely. See option 1.
3. Worship - The worst option. The most dangerous option. What knowledge could they teach us? Is it knowledge that we should have? Not all knowledge that is had should be spread around. Particularly to warlike humans.
4. Peaceful Coexistence - Ummm...humans haven't even figured that one out, what makes one think it will work with giants?

Option 3. was the one our ancestors followed. Makes sense to me that we would repeat the same mistake this time around. The ancients had knowledge that is beyond ours today. It didn't work out well for them either.

Polecat
12-20-2014, 01:42 PM
Well, nobody said they were all 30' tall. Because indeed the science gets in they way.

But then I am reminded of the spiritual aspect of the Nephilim. And also the accounts of herculean strength accorded to those who are possessed by demons. The science might not pan out, but that is where the supernatural (I E the forces unquantified via science) take up the slack.

At the same time, we have fossils of the T-Rex, it only had two legs with an average height of 15-20 feet with varying weight estimations.

So it may not be required to have supernatural assistance to survive.

Basically, we don't know.

Mechanical engineering is not the equivalent of bio engineering either. Otherwise a man could beat the crap out of chimpanzee. And we all know that chimps are reported to be 10 times stronger than us.

Common Sense
12-20-2014, 01:46 PM
Clearly the CIA and other nefarious groups have secret facilities where they have kept evidence of these giants secret.

That's probably where we could also find unicorns, leprechauns, chupacabra, Nessy and the kool Aid man.

Calypso Jones
12-20-2014, 01:50 PM
How long do you think it takes man to forget the past? How long before they're tweaking it, embellishing or just plain leaving stuff out because that person didn't see that particular tidbit of info as important where another person would?

I'd say 40 years for those people in particular not experiencing the event themselves. 100 years tops.

To illustrate. I was in an antique store last year and there was this contraption that was labeled as a colander. It might have been a hundred years old.... maybe. I'd have been a little disturbed to have had my salad greens cleaned in it knowing what it actually was. It was a wire nozzle mask for a horse...they could drink thru it but it either kept them from cribbing or kept an injury from being rubbed. Some of you would be hardpressed to identify Tupperware items from 25 years ago. What I'm saying is, human memory is not for ship.

Common
12-20-2014, 01:54 PM
We will never know how much evidence has been destroyed or hidden away because it does not adhere to the scientific dogma being perpetuated.

There is a record of many giants, their descriptions, in some instances their names, IN the Bible. Goliath was one and he had 4 or 5 brothers. David as well as his mighty men of Valor (36 of them) killed more than one giant in their day.

Goliath was 9feet 6 inches tall. There is a record in the bible of course, of an Egyptian giant that one of David's men fought.

Goliath could have been 6ft tall and david 5ft. My point is would they be giants by todays standards.

Polecat
12-20-2014, 01:57 PM
Clearly the CIA and other nefarious groups have secret facilities where they have kept evidence of these giants secret.

That's probably where we could also find unicorns, leprechauns, chupacabra, Nessy and the kool Aid man.

Can you provide irrefutable proof they do not?

Max Rockatansky
12-20-2014, 02:01 PM
Goliath could have been 6ft tall and david 5ft. My point is would they be giants by todays standards.

Agreed. That during a period of nomadic living, not farming. Men in the European Middle Ages a varied with early Middle Ages being taller than later years. As with today, it's primarily based upon nutrition. Especially in a person's early years from birth until puberty. :

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/medimen.htm
"Height is an indicator of overall health and economic well-being, and learning that people were so well-off 1,000 to 1,200 years ago was surprising," he said.

Steckel analyzed height data from thousands of skeletons excavated from burial sites in northern Europe and dating from the ninth to the 19th centuries. Average height declined slightly during the 12th through 16th centuries, and hit an all-time low during the 17th and 18th centuries.

Northern European men had lost an average 2.5 inches of height by the 1700s, a loss that was not fully recovered until the first half of the 20th century.

Genetics plays a part too. Consider some groups of people have more Neanderthal genes than others.

Polecat
12-20-2014, 02:02 PM
Goliath could have been 6ft tall and david 5ft. My point is would they be giants by todays standards.

He is said to have had 6 fingers per hand as well as 6 toes per foot too.

Common Sense
12-20-2014, 02:02 PM
Can you provide irrefutable proof they do not?

Can you provide irrefutable proof that I can't time travel with a paper clip, a strong magnet and light bulb?

sachem
12-20-2014, 02:05 PM
Can you provide irrefutable proof that I can't time travel with a paper clip, a strong magnet and light bulb?Wow.

Max Rockatansky
12-20-2014, 02:06 PM
He is said to have had 6 fingers per hand as well as 6 toes per foot too.

No doubt genetic anomalies existed in the past as they do in the present. There's a big difference between acknowledging a genetic anomaly and a race of giants. Especially considering there is no physical evidence of this.

If there was, why hide it? Wouldn't it be fascinating to study? Do DNA tests? Find out about their culture and why they died out?

Max Rockatansky
12-20-2014, 02:07 PM
Can you provide irrefutable proof they do not?

Isn't that proving a negative? Like someone saying "Prove God doesn't exist"?

Polecat
12-20-2014, 02:08 PM
Can you provide irrefutable proof that I can't time travel with a paper clip, a strong magnet and light bulb?

Certainly not. I can't prove my own existence. I hear that I am nothing more than a vast collection of charged particles that interact with each other in strange and erratic fashion.

Max Rockatansky
12-20-2014, 02:12 PM
Certainly not. I can't prove my own existence. I hear that I am nothing more than a vast collection of charged particles that interact with each other in strange and erratic fashion.
Cogito ergo sum always works for me. FWIW, I believe you exist simply because I see the evidence of your posts. Now, while it's possible the Admin of this forum creates all the personalities here except for mine, I have to ask the question of "Why?" Why would he/she do that? What would be the purpose? If I cannot think of a reasonable answer, then the best conclusion is that he/she isn't doing it. That all the virtual personalities (well most of them!), are real people.

Alyosha
12-20-2014, 02:15 PM
Clearly the CIA and other nefarious groups have secret facilities where they have kept evidence of these giants secret.

That's probably where we could also find unicorns, leprechauns, chupacabra, Nessy and the kool Aid man.

Remember when you wanted proof Common Sense of the disdain with which you treat the ideas of others? Look above. ^

No one that I've read has said that they did. What they said, and you chose to conflate it to something else entirely to appear smarter was that the government allocated money to the research of these things.

If there was no basis for research why put tax dollars towards it?

http://www.bluebookarchive.org/

You can see the archived documents there.

Common Sense
12-20-2014, 02:18 PM
Remember when you wanted proof @Common Sense (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1085) of the disdain with which you treat the ideas of others? Look above. ^

No one that I've read has said that they did. What they said, and you chose to conflate it to something else entirely to appear smarter was that the government allocated money to the research of these things.

If there was no basis for research why put tax dollars towards it?

http://www.bluebookarchive.org/

You can see the archived documents there.

It was a joke. Lighten up.

Did I mention aliens?

Common
12-20-2014, 02:24 PM
No doubt genetic anomalies existed in the past as they do in the present. There's a big difference between acknowledging a genetic anomaly and a race of giants. Especially considering there is no physical evidence of this.

If there was, why hide it? Wouldn't it be fascinating to study? Do DNA tests? Find out about their culture and why they died out?

Thats another point I dont get, why hide it. Whats the purpose of keeping it a secret, who benefits by keeping it a secret ? I have no idea

Max Rockatansky
12-20-2014, 02:33 PM
Thats another point I dont get, why hide it. Whats the purpose of keeping it a secret, who benefits by keeping it a secret ? I have no idea

Agreed. Like the "aliens" conspiracy, even if one theocratic government tried to hide such a thing, this doesn't prevent other governments of equal scientific capabilities from doing the same.

Alyosha
12-20-2014, 02:37 PM
It was a joke. Lighten up.

Did I mention aliens?

They believe the Nephilim were "aliens".

Alyosha
12-20-2014, 02:39 PM
Thats another point I dont get, why hide it. Whats the purpose of keeping it a secret, who benefits by keeping it a secret ? I have no idea

If creatures with the power to destroy the planet from the skies exist and is hovering around up there and everyone knew it there would be mass panic and looting. Therefore it benefits society to keep it quiet until we know they are friendly.

Peter1469
12-20-2014, 02:55 PM
The Bible also tells us the Universe was created in six days and, by doing the math, it's only about 6000 years old. It also says Johah lived inside the belly of a great fish for 3 days.

Jonah 1:17
Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

That is silly. Now quote what a day means in the bible.

It is a book of metaphors.

Peter1469
12-20-2014, 02:58 PM
Evidence of giants. (http://rense.com/general79/giants.htm)


Perhaps these are the people of referred to in the Bible in Genesis, where it says there were giants in [on?] the Earth in those days. What the Bible doesn't tell us in any great detail is precisely where those giants actually came from. Could it be the race of giants came from the stars, or perhaps from another planet in our solar system? There is some Biblical evidence that they are the fallen ones, known as the Nephilim.

Calypso Jones
12-20-2014, 03:00 PM
If you study the originals and the greek...one day means just that. ONE. day. A 24 hour period. I don't see what is so astounding about that.

Peter1469
12-20-2014, 03:21 PM
If you study the originals and the greek...one day means just that. ONE. day. A 24 hour period. I don't see what is so astounding about that.

Sorry, no.

The 6000 year crowd is as bad as the Muslim 12vers.

Back woods loons.

Max Rockatansky
12-20-2014, 04:45 PM
That is silly. Now quote what a day means in the bible.

It is a book of metaphors.

Thank you and agreed. Like it talks about "giants".

Peter1469
12-20-2014, 04:47 PM
Thank you and agreed. Like it talks about "giants".

The sons and daughters of the fallen angels. Or as better called, ancient aliens.

Max Rockatansky
12-20-2014, 04:54 PM
The sons and daughters of the fallen angels. Or as better called, ancient aliens.

According to whom?

Guerilla
12-20-2014, 08:56 PM
Holy shit I can't even..

Who wants to go on an archeological expedition to find giants/bigfoots/other mystical shit? I'm doing this now.

I think the nephilim may have just been Neanderthals or neanderthal human hybrids and the stories are passed down from when humans and Neanderthals came into contact. Men of great strength- Neanderthals were estimated to have been able to bench press around 700 pounds through studies on tendon attachment as well as the broadness of the articular surface of their joints. Our species were also known to have mated. That wouldn't explain them being giant, unless giant was just another metaphor.

But besides all that, I see no reason that there can't be giant humans. There are 4 foot pygmy tribes, as well as groups of 6-7 foot tribes today. Large size variability really isn't all that surprising. 30 feet would be surprising, but not 12.

Seriously though, who's doing this expedition with me?

Calypso Jones
12-20-2014, 09:02 PM
Holy $#@! I can't even..

Who wants to go on an archeological expedition to find giants/bigfoots/other mystical $#@!? I'm doing this now.

I think the nephilim may have just been Neanderthals or neanderthal human hybrids and the stories are passed down from when humans and Neanderthals came into contact. Men of great strength- Neanderthals were estimated to have been able to bench press around 700 pounds through studies on tendon attachment as well as the broadness of the articular surface of their joints. Our species were also known to have mated. That wouldn't explain them being giant, unless giant was just another metaphor.

But besides all that, I see no reason that there can't be giant humans. There are 4 foot pygmy tribes, as well as groups of 6-7 foot tribes today. Large size variability really isn't all that surprising. 30 feet would be surprising, but not 12.

Seriously though, who's doing this expedition with me?

oh well then...how many Neanderthal bodies have you dug up...or maybe your associates have??

Peter1469
12-20-2014, 09:10 PM
The nephilim were descended from fallen angles. The could very well have procreated with man and with neanderthal.

Guerilla
12-20-2014, 09:12 PM
oh well then...how many Neanderthal bodies have you dug up...or maybe your associates have??

Neanderthals are the best represented hominids in the fossil record, besides humans. I don't know what your getting at, but try again.

Calypso Jones
12-20-2014, 09:12 PM
Then it should be easy posting the links to the complete skeletons that have been found. no?

Guerilla
12-20-2014, 09:20 PM
The nephilim were descended from fallen angles. The could very well have procreated with man and with neanderthal.

I had not considered that, but yes! That makes sense with some other stuff I couldn't make sense of-

Their is a native tribe with stories of a tribe of red-haired cannibalistic giants. Neanderthals were known to practice cannibalism, as their bones have been found butchered and scorched, suggesting preparation and cooking. If you look at their skeletons, they had lots of injuries, tough no doubt. I'd believe it if they were cannibals. Neanderthals genes have been decoded to reveal that they had red hair too! Neanderthal-Nephilim hybrid makes sense with that story.

Guerilla
12-20-2014, 09:25 PM
Then it should be easy posting the links to the complete skeletons that have been found. no?

What? You want pictures of skeletons? Or an article that says there were skeletons? Do you want me to deliver a bone to you that says Neanderthal on it? What are you talking about? Your saying Neanderthals aren't real? Get to your point.

Crepitus
12-20-2014, 10:44 PM
What? You want pictures of skeletons? Or an article that says there were skeletons? Do you want me to deliver a bone to you that says Neanderthal on it? What are you talking about? Your saying Neanderthals aren't real? Get to your point.
He's a "young earth" creationist. Doesn't believe in evolution, or that humans evolved from anything so yes, he is saying that neanderthals are not real.

Max Rockatansky
12-21-2014, 08:38 AM
Then it should be easy posting the links to the complete skeletons that have been found. no?
http://news.discovery.com/human/evolution/neanderthal-skeleton-provides-evidence-of-interbreeding-with-humans-130327.htm

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/407406/Neanderthal
Neanderthal, also spelled Neandertal, the most recent archaic humans, who emerged between 300,000 and 100,000 years ago and were replaced by early modernhumans (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/275376/human-being) between 35,000 and perhaps 24,000 years ago. Neanderthals inhabited Eurasia from the Atlantic regions of Europe eastward to Central Asia and from as far north as present-day Belgium southward to the Mediterranean and southwest Asia. Similar human populations lived at the same time in eastern Asia and Africa. Because Neanderthals lived in a land of abundant limestone caves (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/100583/cave), which preserve bones (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/72869/bone) well, and where there has been a long history of prehistoric research, they are better known than any other archaic human group. Consequently, they have become the archetypal “cavemen.” The name Neanderthal (or Neandertal) derives from the Neander Valley nearDüsseldorf (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/174441/Dusseldorf), Germany, where quarrymen unearthed portions of a human skeleton (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/547371/skeleton) from a cave in 1856.......

http://www.livescience.com/28036-neanderthals-facts-about-our-extinct-human-relatives.html


http://www.mrdowling.com/602-neanderthals.html
http://www.mrdowling.com/images/602neanderthal.jpg

http://www.nature.com/news/2002/020910/full/news020909-1.html
http://www.nature.com/news/2002/020910/images/neanderthal_160.jpg

Max Rockatansky
12-21-2014, 08:39 AM
He's a "young earth" creationist. Doesn't believe in evolution, or that humans evolved from anything so yes, he is saying that neanderthals are not real.

Calypso is a "she".

PolWatch
12-21-2014, 09:04 AM
http://news.discovery.com/human/evolution/neanderthal-skeleton-provides-evidence-of-interbreeding-with-humans-130327.htm

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/407406/Neanderthal
Neanderthal, also spelled Neandertal, the most recent archaic humans, who emerged between 300,000 and 100,000 years ago and were replaced by early modernhumans (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/275376/human-being) between 35,000 and perhaps 24,000 years ago. Neanderthals inhabited Eurasia from the Atlantic regions of Europe eastward to Central Asia and from as far north as present-day Belgium southward to the Mediterranean and southwest Asia. Similar human populations lived at the same time in eastern Asia and Africa. Because Neanderthals lived in a land of abundant limestone caves (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/100583/cave), which preserve bones (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/72869/bone) well, and where there has been a long history of prehistoric research, they are better known than any other archaic human group. Consequently, they have become the archetypal “cavemen.” The name Neanderthal (or Neandertal) derives from the Neander Valley nearDüsseldorf (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/174441/Dusseldorf), Germany, where quarrymen unearthed portions of a human skeleton (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/547371/skeleton) from a cave in 1856.......

http://www.livescience.com/28036-neanderthals-facts-about-our-extinct-human-relatives.html


http://www.mrdowling.com/602-neanderthals.html
http://www.mrdowling.com/images/602neanderthal.jpg

http://www.nature.com/news/2002/020910/full/news020909-1.html
http://www.nature.com/news/2002/020910/images/neanderthal_160.jpg

Interesting articles...thanx. Looks like the 'Clan of the Cave Bear' wasn't completely fictional! (hanky panky in the caves!) :rollseyes:

Polecat
12-21-2014, 10:09 AM
Thats another point I dont get, why hide it. Whats the purpose of keeping it a secret, who benefits by keeping it a secret ? I have no idea

That is the 64 million dollar question. I don't have any answer. I was phishing for opinions on what possibilities come to mind.

Codename Section
12-21-2014, 10:13 AM
Referencing to the alien skeptics, the Governor of Arizona went on Larry King and admitted that he also saw the Phoenix Lights and felt bad for making fun of his constituents with the guy in the alien suit at the press conference. He basically copped to being scared.

Polecat
12-21-2014, 10:21 AM
Referencing to the alien skeptics, the Governor of Arizona went on Larry King and admitted that he also saw the Phoenix Lights and felt bad for making fun of his constituents with the guy in the alien suit at the press conference. He basically copped to being scared.

It is like the Emperor's New Clothes. There is plenty of impetus to pretend we can "see the fabric" when reputation and perhaps even your sanity is on the line.

Crepitus
12-21-2014, 10:55 AM
Calypso is a "she".
Sorry, I kinda default to "He" when I don't know. I Humbly apologize to Miss or Mrs. Calypso.

Max Rockatansky
12-21-2014, 11:28 AM
Interesting articles...thanx. Looks like the 'Clan of the Cave Bear' wasn't completely fictional! (hanky panky in the caves!) :rollseyes:

I heard the book(s?) were better than the movie!

Max Rockatansky
12-21-2014, 11:29 AM
Sorry, I kinda default to "He" when I don't know. I Humbly apologize to Miss or Mrs. Calypso.

No sweat! Women are under-represented on forums, so I also default to "he" since, more often than not, it's correct.

Max Rockatansky
12-21-2014, 11:47 AM
Referencing to the alien skeptics, the Governor of Arizona went on Larry King and admitted that he also saw the Phoenix Lights and felt bad for making fun of his constituents with the guy in the alien suit at the press conference. He basically copped to being scared.

I followed the Erich von Däniken books as a kid when they first came out. It was exciting to believe such things.

Critical thinking should cause people to consider the deeper issues and implications of such a thing as the links below go into great detail. For one thing, where are they? It's like miracles in the Bible. Lots of miracles thousands of years ago, but why none lately? Why no evidence of miracles? Same goes for aliens. If they were here, why aren't they still here? Why is there no evidence of them on Earth, the Moon or our Solar System? NASA is tracking pieces of paint in orbit, but can't find an ancient alien satellite or mother ship? Consider the Fermi Paradox. (http://www.universetoday.com/103061/where-are-all-the-aliens/)

http://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-believe-in-the-ancient-aliens-theory

http://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/ancient-aliens-debunked/

http://ancientaliensdebunked.com/

Animal Mother
12-21-2014, 12:07 PM
Who says there is no evidence? I don't believe in god. I don't believe in Sasquatch, the yeti, or ghosts because there is zero evidence for any of those things.

There is a hella lot of evidence for UFOs, however. You've been on here talking god and shit and if it exists it's fucking invisible and or gives no fucks about any of us enough to show itself, but there are hours of video of the Phoenix lights and you don't believe that?

That's weird, dude.

PolWatch
12-21-2014, 12:53 PM
I heard the book(s?) were better than the movie!

I haven't seen the movie...but the books were pretty good. I try not to see the movie if I've read the books...I'm always disappointed. Books are always better! :laugh:

Bob
12-21-2014, 01:00 PM
Who says there is no evidence? I don't believe in god. I don't believe in Sasquatch, the yeti, or ghosts because there is zero evidence for any of those things.

There is a hella lot of evidence for UFOs, however. You've been on here talking god and shit and if it exists it's fucking invisible and or gives no fucks about any of us enough to show itself, but there are hours of video of the Phoenix lights and you don't believe that?

That's weird, dude.

Babies are born with no beliefs.

As we mature, the idea of God is at first, .... say, what if.

As we mature and mature, we see we don't know it all. A lot of youth are firmly convinced they totally know it all. I argue with Green Arrow who has a "GA knows it all complex." This is not to pick on him but it is no forum secret we clash.

I try to learn new things daily. I enjoy a forum where one gets to examine a lot of ideas. I find when a new or old idea is carefully examined, I grow. I come to grow.

Hope the rest of you also come to grow.

PolWatch
12-21-2014, 01:04 PM
Odyssey of the Gods: An Alien History of Ancient Greece by Erich von Daniken is an interesting look at the ancient Greek myths with alternative explanations...Jason & the quest for the Golden Fleece has elements that could easily be ancients describing alien technology. Like the Chariot of the Gods? he makes no statements that this is fact...just points out another way of looking at things.

Alyosha
12-21-2014, 01:08 PM
I followed the Erich von Däniken books as a kid when they first came out. It was exciting to believe such things.

Critical thinking should cause people to consider the deeper issues and implications of such a thing as the links below go into great detail. For one thing, where are they? It's like miracles in the Bible. Lots of miracles thousands of years ago, but why none lately? Why no evidence of miracles? Same goes for aliens. If they were here, why aren't they still here? Why is there no evidence of them on Earth, the Moon or our Solar System? NASA is tracking pieces of paint in orbit, but can't find an ancient alien satellite or mother ship? Consider the Fermi Paradox. (http://www.universetoday.com/103061/where-are-all-the-aliens/)

http://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-believe-in-the-ancient-aliens-theory

http://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/ancient-aliens-debunked/

http://ancientaliensdebunked.com/


1. You don't know that they aren't "still here".

2. We have near misses with comets as recently as last year and they're not fast moving craft.

3. You and other "skeptics" who run vanity skeptic sites are under the impression that the technology of the future will be propulsion like the old movies when even now our theoretical physicists believe deep space travel will not be propulsion based. If they can go out and back without propulsion then they won't be caught on our tracking systems.

4. There is lots of evidence now and in the post WWII past for UFOs. I really don't know where people get that there is no evidence.

Polecat
12-21-2014, 01:56 PM
There are many things still around from the ancients that defy explanation. I can't draw any conclusions from what I have seen or heard. I can speculate at best. If this process leads to certain beliefs then what am I supposed to do about it? Declare myself a raving lunatic or an inspired genius? I do neither. I just continue looking out of pure curiosity. Those that shut their eyes & ears are convinced they already have all the answers.

Alyosha
12-21-2014, 02:01 PM
The "skeptic" sites cited above are run by people just like us, none of them are run by people like "The Hawk" because real physicists with grants and endowments are too busy playing in the field of the possible to waste time trying to appear intelligent by fighting over what they believe is impossible.

Crepitus
12-21-2014, 06:42 PM
1. You don't know that they aren't "still here".

2. We have near misses with comets as recently as last year and they're not fast moving craft.

3. You and other "skeptics" who run vanity skeptic sites are under the impression that the technology of the future will be propulsion like the old movies when even now our theoretical physicists believe deep space travel will not be propulsion based. If they can go out and back without propulsion then they won't be caught on our tracking systems.

4. There is lots of evidence now and in the post WWII past for UFOs. I really don't know where people get that there is no evidence.
Just out of curiosity what will it be if not propulsion? Transmission? ? Beaming people like star trek? Or?

Max Rockatansky
12-22-2014, 05:19 AM
Just out of curiosity what will it be if not propulsion? Transmission? ? Beaming people like star trek? Or?

Worm holes or some other way of folding the space-time continuum is my guess.

Animal Mother
12-22-2014, 07:59 AM
Just out of curiosity what will it be if not propulsion? Transmission? ? Beaming people like star trek? Or?

Worm holes

http://www.hawking.org.uk/space-and-time-warps.html


Closely related to time travel, is the ability to travel rapidly from one position in space, to another. As I said earlier, Einstein showed that it would take an infinite amount of rocket power, to accelerate a space ship to beyond the speed of light. So the only way to get from one side of the galaxy to the other, in a reasonable time, would seem to be if we could warp space-time so much, that we created a little tube or wormhole. This could connect the two sides of the galaxy, and act as a short cut, to get from one to the other and back while your friends were still alive. Such wormholes have been seriously suggested, as being within the capabilities of a future civilization. But if you can travel from one side of the galaxy, to the other, in a week or two, you could go back through another wormhole, and arrive back before you set out. You could even manage to travel back in time with a single wormhole, if its two ends were moving relative to each other.

One can show that to create a wormhole, one needs to warp space-time in the opposite way, to that in which normal matter warps it. Ordinary matter curves space-time back on itself, like the surface of the Earth.

However, to create a wormhole, one needs matter that warps space-time in the opposite way, like the surface of a saddle. The same is true of any other way of warping space-time to allow travel to the past, if the universe didn't begin so warped, that it allowed time travel. What one would need, would be matter with negative mass, and negative energy density, to make space-time warp in the way required.

Energy is rather like money. If you have a positive bank balance, you can distribute it in various ways. But according to the classical laws that were believed until quite recently, you weren't allowed to have an energy overdraft. So these classical laws would have ruled out us being able to warp the universe, in the way required to allow time travel. However, the classical laws were overthrown by Quantum Theory, which is the other great revolution in our picture of the universe, apart from General Relativity. Quantum Theory is more relaxed, and allows you to have an overdraft on one or two accounts. If only the banks were as accommodating. In other words, Quantum Theory allows the energy density to be negative in some places, provided it is positive in others.


It's going to have to be because according to NASA we've almost run out of plutonium.

http://www.wired.com/2013/09/plutonium-238-problem/all/

Crepitus
12-22-2014, 08:26 AM
Worm holes

http://www.hawking.org.uk/space-and-time-warps.html



It's going to have to be because according to NASA we've almost run out of plutonium.

http://www.wired.com/2013/09/plutonium-238-problem/all/
Wow, that's going to require a lot more reading. Fascinating though. Thanks.

nathanbforrest45
12-27-2014, 11:48 AM
Nonsense
All a bunch of hooey
Anyone who believes this is a total jerk

Peter1469
12-27-2014, 11:50 AM
Nonsense
All a bunch of hooey
Anyone who believes this is a total jerk

lol

Cthulhu
12-27-2014, 01:42 PM
Nonsense
All a bunch of hooey
Anyone who believes this is a total jerk
You're a cabbage.


Sent from my evil cell phone.

PolWatch
12-27-2014, 01:44 PM
You're a cabbage.

restraint? you could have called him an eggplant! :wink:

sachem
12-27-2014, 01:48 PM
Nonsense
All a bunch of hooey
Anyone who believes this is a total jerkNathan! I missed you.

Peter1469
12-27-2014, 02:22 PM
Nathan! I missed you.

Why on earth would you? He is a Trinn Bot.

Cthulhu
12-27-2014, 02:25 PM
restraint? you could have called him an eggplant! :wink:
Okay. I confess. I had to retype the message.


Sent from my evil cell phone.

sachem
12-27-2014, 02:26 PM
Why on earth would you? He is a Trinn Bot.He and I don't agree politically, but we bonded on a forum many years ago.

Paperback Writer
12-27-2014, 02:41 PM
Nathan! I missed you.

Need I remind you of whom else was missed by you?

sachem
12-27-2014, 02:49 PM
Need I remind you of whom else was missed by you?I know. :o

Did you know I gave B** the link to this place because he was at another forum asking where Nathan and Commish had gone?

nathanbforrest45
12-27-2014, 03:22 PM
A cabbage??

How uninspiring a comeback.

Don't worry, I won't tarry long. I was just slumming.

Cthulhu
12-27-2014, 06:57 PM
A cabbage??

How uninspiring a comeback.

Don't worry, I won't tarry long. I was just slumming.
Uninspired insults for uninspiring opponents.

You don't rate.

Cabbage patch face.


Sent from my evil cell phone.