PDA

View Full Version : Why do we accept war so easily?



donttread
01-01-2015, 10:36 AM
We live in a place where our own natural resources could meet our needs, where local economies could flourish and which we could easily defend from within. Yet our government meddles in the affairs of numerous nations, creates hatred towards us and wages unnecessary war.
Why do we accept and allow this as a people. ?

sachem
01-01-2015, 11:10 AM
We accept them because they aren't fought in our country.

Common
01-01-2015, 11:16 AM
Americans accept war because it has been glamorized to us through old WW2 newsreels that oozed Patriotism and ever since.

When Politicians say war, americans are programed to start waving flags. Then young men die and are maimed in the thousands generationally. Every generation of young american men has paid a price.
Now the SOBs have included women to pay the price.

I know I will be abused over this but this statement is in no way sexist. I AM DEAD SET AGAINST WOMEN IN COMBAT. I dont give a damn what country does it, how many countries allow it. To me its a abomination to send mothers and young women into harms way, WHEN its unnecessary. Other countries may need the body count. America does not. Sorry Ladies nothing is going to change my mind and what I think doesnt matter because its already done.

Private Pickle
01-01-2015, 11:52 AM
We live in a place where our own natural resources could meet our needs, where local economies could flourish and which we could easily defend from within. Yet our government meddles in the affairs of numerous nations, creates hatred towards us and wages unnecessary war.
Why do we accept and allow this as a people. ?

We are humans.

donttread
01-01-2015, 01:17 PM
Americans accept war because it has been glamorized to us through old WW2 newsreels that oozed Patriotism and ever since.

When Politicians say war, americans are programed to start waving flags. Then young men die and are maimed in the thousands generationally. Every generation of young american men has paid a price.
Now the SOBs have included women to pay the price.

I know I will be abused over this but this statement is in no way sexist. I AM DEAD SET AGAINST WOMEN IN COMBAT. I dont give a damn what country does it, how many countries allow it. To me its a abomination to send mothers and young women into harms way, WHEN its unnecessary. Other countries may need the body count. America does not. Sorry Ladies nothing is going to change my mind and what I think doesnt matter because its already done.

It's all unnecessary and has been since WW 2

domer76
01-01-2015, 02:24 PM
Anymore, because there is no draft and it's usually someone else's kid that gets killed. Bring back a no exceptions draft and you'll have a different story.

Common
01-01-2015, 02:56 PM
Anymore, because there is no draft and it's usually someone else's kid that gets killed. Bring back a no exceptions draft and you'll have a different story.

The draft was designed to exclude the rich and powerfuls kids from serving. I remember them telling me that College deferments were for americans cream of the crop. That was like saying americas 98% that serve are disposable garbage.
Back in the day of no college loans for the most part only the rich kids could pay for college. So they didnt serve.

lynn
01-01-2015, 03:11 PM
Perjhaps because the U.S. is the biggest maker of weapons so in order to sell or use them we have to get involved in wars.

del
01-01-2015, 03:13 PM
The draft was designed to exclude the rich and powerfuls kids from serving. I remember them telling me that College deferments were for americans cream of the crop. That was like saying americas 98% that serve are disposable garbage.
Back in the day of no college loans for the most part only the rich kids could pay for college. So they didnt serve.

when 98% of the population has skin in the game, the pols are a lot more likely to think twice.

here is an excellent article that addresses this. we all pay lip service to supporting the troops, but in the ned, it's somebody else's kid at the sharp end of the stick

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/12/the-tragedy-of-the-american-military/383516/

PolWatch
01-01-2015, 05:11 PM
when 98% of the population has skin in the game, the pols are a lot more likely to think twice.

here is an excellent article that addresses this. we all pay lip service to supporting the troops, but in the ned, it's somebody else's kid at the sharp end of the stick

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/12/the-tragedy-of-the-american-military/383516/

The article is very long but its worth the time to read it! It brings up issues like how military contracts are used as political pork pay-offs with no concern for need or effectiveness (F-35), the general attitude of most Americans about the military: wear a flag lapel pin, tell a vet thank you and then forget about them.

I found the statements by former military very informative.

texan
01-01-2015, 10:34 PM
We live in a place where our own natural resources could meet our needs, where local economies could flourish and which we could easily defend from within. Yet our government meddles in the affairs of numerous nations, creates hatred towards us and wages unnecessary war.
Why do we accept and allow this as a people. ?

Are you really this naive?

texan
01-01-2015, 10:36 PM
Now after reading some of the other posts, Jeez!

How old are you people 15?

southwest88
01-01-2015, 11:10 PM
We live in a place where our own natural resources could meet our needs, where local economies could flourish and which we could easily defend from within. Yet our government meddles in the affairs of numerous nations, creates hatred towards us and wages unnecessary war.
Why do we accept and allow this as a people. ?

Yah, but we need rare earths for the high-tech stuff - cell phones, better batteries, fuel cells, high-end tablets, smart phones, PCs, etc. Those we have to trade for, or buy from questionable sources. (Mind you, the actual manufacturing takes place in China, or the Tigers. But still, you have to source the raw materials somewhere.)

Yah, foreign aid & military foreign aid is a kinda perk for a lot of US industry & farmers - finished goods, non-lethal military goods, some actual military weapons, body armor, comms, sensors, NVGs, radar sets, GPS, bulk grains, corn sweetener, bulk pork, beef - it's a long list, & there are a lot of suppliers out there across the country whose bottom line is sweetened by participating in subsidized or fedgov-encouraged sales & aid (a lot of our foreign aid is credit for US goods, BTW - another way to help out overseas & pour money back into the country - plus domestic foreign aid goods used to have to be shipped in US ships - a nod to the US maritime industry).

Yep, we're pretty much energy sufficient for our domestic market - A lot of our electricity is still coal-generated, & we're self-sufficient in that. We're exporting some oil, & there are plans for LNG export terminals/ports - so that we could export natgas too.

Our weapons industries depend on foreign sales, though. That raises their base production numbers, & helps subsidize our purchases for our armed services. With shorter production runs, the cost per unit would go up. Or production lines for front-line fighters, helos, Patriot missiles, MLRS, etc. would have to be mothballed & then brought back into operation as needed. Cheaper & allows for better planning to keep the lines & expertise running, even if @ lower output.

southwest88
01-01-2015, 11:18 PM
Americans accept war because it has been glamorized to us through old WW2 newsreels that oozed Patriotism and ever since.

When Politicians say war, americans are programed to start waving flags. Then young men die and are maimed in the thousands generationally. Every generation of young american men has paid a price.
Now the SOBs have included women to pay the price.

I know I will be abused over this but this statement is in no way sexist. I AM DEAD SET AGAINST WOMEN IN COMBAT. I dont give a $#@! what country does it, how many countries allow it. To me its a abomination to send mothers and young women into harms way, WHEN its unnecessary. Other countries may need the body count. America does not. Sorry Ladies nothing is going to change my mind and what I think doesnt matter because its already done.

Yah, well, I think that the only way the number of rapes, assaults, etc. of women in the US will go down is if we induct all young women - starting @ say age 16 or so - & train them in hand-to-hand. Specifically against kidnap, rape, assault.

Yep, I'm simply impatient. We keep saying that we'll do training & tame society @ large. I call horse hockey. It's not going to happen - because of this, that & the other reason. Fine. I say train all the potential victims we can, & let the would-be rapists take their chances. Once a few of these brutes show up blind & minus their so-called cojones, I'm willing to bet that sexual assaults will become rare. It's a chance I'm certainly willing to take, seeing as how all the holding of hands & singing Kumbaya doesn't seem to be cutting it.

What do you say to that?

texan
01-02-2015, 12:03 AM
:tool20:

PolWatch
01-02-2015, 12:05 AM
They would be charged with assault or murder...just like abused women are now charged for murder when they shoot or fight back against their abusers.

texan
01-02-2015, 09:16 AM
Yah, well, I think that the only way the number of rapes, assaults, etc. of women in the US will go down is if we induct all young women - starting @ say age 16 or so - & train them in hand-to-hand. Specifically against kidnap, rape, assault.

Yep, I'm simply impatient. We keep saying that we'll do training & tame society @ large. I call horse hockey. It's not going to happen - because of this, that & the other reason. Fine. I say train all the potential victims we can, & let the would-be rapists take their chances. Once a few of these brutes show up blind & minus their so-called cojones, I'm willing to bet that sexual assaults will become rare. It's a chance I'm certainly willing to take, seeing as how all the holding of hands & singing Kumbaya doesn't seem to be cutting it.

What do you say to that?

Under this statement then you must be against them as police officers as well?

Ransom
01-02-2015, 09:38 AM
We accept them because they aren't fought in our country.

Not since you were born, no.

del
01-02-2015, 09:49 AM
Not since you were born, no.

not since any of us were born, gramps

PolWatch
01-02-2015, 09:52 AM
not since any of us were born, gramps

those who have fought on Black Friday have served this country too! who can forget the battles of Wal-Mart....several injuries & a few deaths....medals to be awarded soon....crossed shopping carts with Christmas trees is the proposed design.

texan
01-02-2015, 10:04 AM
Funny!

Guys & gals the world is full of bad guys, we pull from these things worldwide and they will fill the void. I am surprised that people do not get this point. This has been a fact for 200 years for us and a fact since the world started......That said, you want to become isolationists (which in theory sounds good) then be prepaired to fight on this soil because it will arrive here eventially. You want to stay in skirmishes off our soil maintain a presence eleswhere and the fighting stays there. 1 + 1 =2.

There is a reason we are number 1 and always have been. There is concern we could slip because people with your views (IE Democrat voters) are marketing this hogwash. Obama always thought like you till they handed him the spiral notebook that said he is how F'd up things are and can get. Otherwise he would have done all this crap you want.

BTW we live in the real world and sometimes it gets sloppy, as opposed to liberal theory world where all is rosy.

PolWatch
01-02-2015, 10:10 AM
My rose colored glasses were knocked off and broken about 1966. I'm not an isolationist but I believe in allowing other countries to decide their destiny without American lives and money paying the way.

southwest88
01-02-2015, 11:23 AM
Funny!

Guys & gals the world is full of bad guys, we pull from these things worldwide and they will fill the void. I am surprised that people do not get this point. This has been a fact for 200 years for us and a fact since the world started......That said, you want to become isolationists (which in theory sounds good) then be prepaired to fight on this soil because it will arrive here eventially. You want to stay in skirmishes off our soil maintain a presence eleswhere and the fighting stays there. 1 + 1 =2.

There is a reason we are number 1 and always have been. There is concern we could slip because people with your views (IE Democrat voters) are marketing this hogwash. Obama always thought like you till they handed him the spiral notebook that said he is how F'd up things are and can get. Otherwise he would have done all this crap you want.

BTW we live in the real world and sometimes it gets sloppy, as opposed to liberal theory world where all is rosy.

Nah, the 2nd part's not true. The US took the World stage in 1898 CE or so, in the Spanish American War. We'd had a few brushes here & there, & conquering Cuba, PR & Philippines didn't take all that much muscle (holding the Philippines against the insurgents who we befriended & then displaced & outlawed & waged war upon - that took a long time, casualties & effort, our first real brush with guerrillas, although we may not have realized it @ the time).

& the Philippines policy was hotly contested - you can still read about it. Mark Twain & a host of luminaries & ordinary people were opposed to our conquering & then occupying the Philippines, under the pretext of Christianizing the joint (Spain had been there for 334 years, introduced Spanish, Catholicism - still 83% of the population, @ 2009 - culture, architecture, etc.)

Alyosha
01-02-2015, 11:38 AM
We accept war so easily because we're sold on it.

When study after study since the 1950's has shown that television and projected images puts the brain in a receptive alpha state why do people not believe? Is it because we think we're above programming, we're too smart for it?

Ransom
01-02-2015, 11:54 AM
We accept war so easily because we're sold on it.

When study after study since the 1950's has shown that television and projected images puts the brain in a receptive alpha state why do people not believe? Is it because we think we're above programming, we're too smart for it?

And prior to the 1950's.....you know when most of our wars were fought?

texan
01-02-2015, 04:32 PM
Nah, the 2nd part's not true. The US took the World stage in 1898 CE or so, in the Spanish American War. We'd had a few brushes here & there, & conquering Cuba, PR & Philippines didn't take all that much muscle (holding the Philippines against the insurgents who we befriended & then displaced & outlawed & waged war upon - that took a long time, casualties & effort, our first real brush with guerrillas, although we may not have realized it @ the time).

& the Philippines policy was hotly contested - you can still read about it. Mark Twain & a host of luminaries & ordinary people were opposed to our conquering & then occupying the Philippines, under the pretext of Christianizing the joint (Spain had been there for 334 years, introduced Spanish, Catholicism - still 83% of the population, @ 2009 - culture, architecture, etc.)

You can break it down into boxes that are irrelevent to my point all you want. We are and have been number one and that is based on economics bro!!!!! If there is some mess to be cleaned up they don't call China! You are a young liberal without a clue, move along until you grow up. This thread is as dumb a thread as has ever been started. Your future job is tenured professor at a university, there you will be able to sip lattes, visit with state employees that have never really worked flunking people with ideas they don't agree with in comfort with other nit wits, and down talk the greatest country ever founded. We will continue to provide the protect from the real enimies of the world so you can!

southwest88
01-02-2015, 06:32 PM
You can break it down into boxes that are irrelevent to my point all you want. We are and have been number one and that is based on economics bro!!!!! If there is some mess to be cleaned up they don't call China! You are a young liberal without a clue, move along until you grow up. This thread is as dumb a thread as has ever been started. Your future job is tenured professor at a university, there you will be able to sip lattes, visit with state employees that have never really worked flunking people with ideas they don't agree with in comfort with other nit wits, and down talk the greatest country ever founded. We will continue to provide the protect from the real enimies of the world so you can!

Wrong on every point & on your assumptions, too.

donttread
01-02-2015, 09:12 PM
Anymore, because there is no draft and it's usually someone else's kid that gets killed. Bring back a no exceptions draft and you'll have a different story.


Draft is slavery incarnate

Mister D
01-02-2015, 09:14 PM
Anymore, because there is no draft and it's usually someone else's kid that gets killed. Bring back a no exceptions draft and you'll have a different story.

You'd rather not have a volunteer army?

texan
01-02-2015, 10:20 PM
Wrong on every point & on your assumptions, too.

Don't think so look around genius, think I am about 99% more right. You? LOL, we will continue to keep order so you can act like you want and criticize the system that allows you to act anyway you want and for people like you to be idiots.

There is a reason things are the way they are and you think you are the arm chair QB genius, LOL! Go back to the playground with CEE'Gar now the adults are talking here.

here is a quote I developed for people like you:

"The world didn't start when you started paying attention."

donttread
01-03-2015, 09:11 AM
when 98% of the population has skin in the game, the pols are a lot more likely to think twice.

here is an excellent article that addresses this. we all pay lip service to supporting the troops, but in the ned, it's somebody else's kid at the sharp end of the stick

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/12/the-tragedy-of-the-american-military/383516/

My point is that we don't need any of them to fight, unless we're invaded in which case we won't need a draft. Instead of a draft lets go back to having the generals near the front lines in harms way like they used to. If its important enough to kill and die for let the guys pulling the strings be there too

donttread
01-03-2015, 09:16 AM
Funny!

Guys & gals the world is full of bad guys, we pull from these things worldwide and they will fill the void. I am surprised that people do not get this point. This has been a fact for 200 years for us and a fact since the world started......That said, you want to become isolationists (which in theory sounds good) then be prepaired to fight on this soil because it will arrive here eventially. You want to stay in skirmishes off our soil maintain a presence eleswhere and the fighting stays there. 1 + 1 =2.

There is a reason we are number 1 and always have been. There is concern we could slip because people with your views (IE Democrat voters) are marketing this hogwash. Obama always thought like you till they handed him the spiral notebook that said he is how F'd up things are and can get. Otherwise he would have done all this crap you want.

BTW we live in the real world and sometimes it gets sloppy, as opposed to liberal theory world where all is rosy.

Sounds like propaganda 101 to me. The world is not ours to run or even protect, perhaps that's why our efforts to do so usually end in tragedy . As far being number? This ain't the NFL , all we need to be is good enough at defense to defend our shores

donttread
01-03-2015, 09:23 AM
We accept war so easily because we're sold on it.

When study after study since the 1950's has shown that television and projected images puts the brain in a receptive alpha state why do people not believe? Is it because we think we're above programming, we're too smart for it?

It' not easy to sell young people the idea that must kill and die half a world away for corporate glory. It's even harder to sell their parents.
That's where nationalism, religion and now the glorification of war via TV ( used to be campfire stories) comes in.
It should become increasingly difficult to recruit soldiers as knowledge of the imperialistic nature of our wars becomes more widespread. But there is a reason you cannot drink until age 21 but can enlist to kill and die at 18

donttread
01-03-2015, 09:30 AM
Are you really this naive?

Are you really that brainwashed?

donttread
01-03-2015, 09:32 AM
Now after reading some of the other posts, Jeez!

How old are you people 15?

Keep drinkin the coolaide

Calypso Jones
01-03-2015, 09:43 AM
It is asked, Why do we accept war so easily? Doesn't that depend on the reason for the war? We are a peaceful nation. We don't fight for land or for the joy of subjugation. We fight righteous wars.

Sometimes Wars Have to be fought. Sometimes Wars are necessary.

As an example, for those of you watching TWD, The Walking Dead. What did you think of Rick's ultimatum on the citizens of Terminus. He said, They have to die. Sometimes, evil people have to die. Not just for what they did and for their past victims. They must die for the sakes of future victims. Sometimes the best thing is for evil to be wiped from the face of the earth.

Evil can never be totally erased from the earth but you can cut it back. God told Saul and the Israelites to destroy the Amalekites down to the last child and cattle. But Saul didn't do it. That was a big mistake. I'm not going to go into the evil of the Amalekites. You could look up the connection of the Amalekites and the Nazis if you so choose.

Now there's that connection between the Nazis and the Muslims. It is past time to have eradicated that evil...but like Saul, surely a progressive, seeing as he tried to usurp the power of Samuel, our progressives today do not have the stomach nor the realization of what needs to be done.