Case law.

[Cthulhu]

So...case law.

How do you use it? I can find *gobs* of it with relative ease.

But in practice, how does the lay person use it to his or her defense in a court room against a government entity?

How does one use common law effectively in a court room?

Also, how does one file a motion? Better question, how does one file a suit against the government? A city government to be specific.


Sent from my evil cell phone.

[Peter1469]

What city?

Many courts have very good resources for people to DIY. Many don't.

What legal issue?

[Cthulhu]

What city?

Many courts have very good resources for people to DIY. Many don't.

What legal issue?
Rexburg Idaho, Madison county.

...parking tickets. BUT I paid three of the bastards and the 4th we didn't even know about until today. Well Dark Mistress knew but she didn't tell me last night thinking I would be in a rage about this.

...she was correct.

They are saying saying that we didn't pay the first 3 that they sent to collections - which we did.

Did I mention that I hate the city of Rexburg?


Sent from my evil cell phone.

[Dr. Who]

Rexburg Idaho, Madison county.

...parking tickets. BUT I paid three of the bastards and the 4th we didn't even know about until today. Well Dark Mistress knew but she didn't tell me last night thinking I would be in a rage about this.

...she was correct.

They are saying saying that we didn't pay the first 3 that they sent to collections - which we did.

Did I mention that I hate the city of Rexburg?
You should have proof of payment, so that should take care of the first three. It's pretty hard to fight a parking ticket. If the ticket was put on your car, that's proof it was there. Unless you can prove that the time period within which you were parked was legal, you're pretty much dead in the water. Beyond that, the only defenses are generally noted in your municipal by-laws. Certain entities have a legal right to park where ever they want. You are probably not on that list.

[Cthulhu]

You should have proof of payment, so that should take care of the first three. It's pretty hard to fight a parking ticket. If the ticket was put on your car, that's proof it was there. Unless you can prove that the time period within which you were parked was legal, you're pretty much dead in the water. Beyond that, the only defenses are generally noted in your municipal by-laws. Certain entities have a legal right to park where ever they want. You are probably not on that list.
Ordinarily I would agree. But we never actually got the ticket. Being somewhat familiar with them by now, I know exactly what they look like. They are bright orange, tough to miss under your wiper blade.

We didn't even know about it until they mailed us a notice after the fine increased.


Sent from my evil cell phone.

[Peter1469]

What about the three that you paid? Do you have proof? How did you pay?

Someone could have taken the ticket off your car- I use to do that all the time until I realized I was screwing people over.


Ordinarily I would agree. But we never actually got the ticket. Being somewhat familiar with them by now, I know exactly what they look like. They are bright orange, tough to miss under your wiper blade.

We didn't even know about it until they mailed us a notice after the fine increased.

[Adelaide]

What about the three that you paid? Do you have proof? How did you pay?

Someone could have taken the ticket off your car- I use to do that all the time until I realized I was screwing people over.

I laughed. Seriously? I'm not even allowed to operate a vehicle and I know you can't do that, lol.

Anyways, depending on the fine it might just be easier to pay it and get it done. I don't know if it's the same in the US, but up here we have former police officers who start up little companies that help people fight speeding tickets, parking tickets, DUIs, etc - stuff they know, and know how to get out of. A coworker got a ticket for going 140km/h on the highway through my town and she used a company like that to get out of it. Cheaper than a lawyer. This could also just be a local thing since I've never heard it spoken about much. But couldn't hurt to look.

[Dr. Who]

Ordinarily I would agree. But we never actually got the ticket. Being somewhat familiar with them by now, I know exactly what they look like. They are bright orange, tough to miss under your wiper blade.

We didn't even know about it until they mailed us a notice after the fine increased.
It might be easier to make a case that you never saw the ticket, if the first three didn't go to collections. They may be unlikely to buy that argument unless you can somehow prove that your car wasn't where they say it was. Do you have an official copy of the ticket? Are they hand written or printer generated? Could there have been a mistake in the plate number, or did you park in an unlawful space? Are you contesting the ticket, or the additional fine? If the latter, was there a massive wind or snow storm that day that might have blown the ticket away or concealed it? Otherwise, I don't think that case law will help you.

[Cthulhu]

What about the three that you paid? Do you have proof? How did you pay?

Someone could have taken the ticket off your car- I use to do that all the time until I realized I was screwing people over.

We used a card. But that is an easy search of bank records. So those aren't really a problem to nullify.

Even if someone took it off. Why should we get slapped for not knowing? Is not that an improper summons?

This one rustles my jimmies because apparently they don't even know the make or the model of the vehicle cited. But the 3 other times they managed to figure it out. These people are the reason I don't donate plasma anymore.

I am not dealing with intelligent life in this matter.


Sent from my evil cell phone.

[PolWatch]

this is an article about problems over traffic fines. It has several links to ACLU projects dealing with the problem in different areas. One was titled Tool Kit and it might have some info you can use.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/12/28/local-courts-reviving-debtors-prison-for-overdue-fines-fees/

[Dr. Who]

We used a card. But that is an easy search of bank records. So those aren't really a problem to nullify.

Even if someone took it off. Why should we get slapped for not knowing? Is not that an improper summons?

This one rustles my jimmies because apparently they don't even know the make or the model of the vehicle cited. But the 3 other times they managed to figure it out. These people are the reason I don't donate plasma anymore.

I am not dealing with intelligent life in this matter.
You need an official copy of the ticket.

[Cthulhu]

It might be easier to make a case that you never saw the ticket, if the first three didn't go to collections. They may be unlikely to buy that argument unless you can somehow prove that your car wasn't where they say it was. Do you have an official copy of the ticket? Are they hand written or printer generated? Could there have been a mistake in the plate number, or did you park in an unlawful space? Are you contesting the ticket, or the additional fine? If the latter, was there a massive wind or snow storm that day that might have blown the ticket away or concealed it? Otherwise, I don't think that case law will help you.
Will address these when I have a keyboard.


Sent from my evil cell phone.

[Redrose]

So...case law.

How do you use it? I can find *gobs* of it with relative ease.

But in practice, how does the lay person use it to his or her defense in a court room against a government entity?

How does one use common law effectively in a court room?

Also, how does one file a motion? Better question, how does one file a suit against the government? A city government to be specific.

Since I worked in court, I saw how the system worked, civil and criminal. I knew what had to be done. I filed all my own motions, orders, judgments, certificate of service forms relating to custody and child support.

To file any law suit, you must get the style of the case exact. I have seen cases dismissed because the style of the case was wrong. The names were wrong, or they were not the correct party to sue, or one or more of the parties was omitted from the style.

I got blank forms from a judicial asst. and typed them by hand with my information. I then delivered them with necessary copies to the clerk's office to file and get on a docket. Probably a library or the Internet have these forms too.

People are allowed to use the law library in the clerk's office. In a serious case, where case law is needed to support your case, I would not represent myself, most judges don't like non lawyers slowing down the proceedings. The judge has to protect the rights of an unrepresented person, and it slows thing down.

We have a right to represent ourselves, but it's not always prudent. I believe if you are incorporated, and in a law suit pertaining to the incorporated business, you legally cannot represent yourself, you need a lawyer.

[Peter1469]

If you have proof of the 3 being paid get it and use that with the credit agencies to get your report cleared up. Also make sure the state knows so they don't suspend your license.

As far as the one you never knew about, they should have records of it and know the make and model. If not, I wonder if it is possible to ask for a hearing. They have to prove they gave you the ticket and if they can't even say which car the ticket was placed on, I don't see how they could win.


We used a card. But that is an easy search of bank records. So those aren't really a problem to nullify.

Even if someone took it off. Why should we get slapped for not knowing? Is not that an improper summons?

This one rustles my jimmies because apparently they don't even know the make or the model of the vehicle cited. But the 3 other times they managed to figure it out. These people are the reason I don't donate plasma anymore.

I am not dealing with intelligent life in this matter.

[Cthulhu]

You need an official copy of the ticket.

Never received it, hence the angst. Well, more angst then usual. Not like I would be cheery getting a ticket in the first place...


It might be easier to make a case that you never saw the ticket, if the first three didn't go to collections.

Well interestingly enough, we didn't exactly get tickets on all of those either. I think we only saw one ticket of those three. But they are paid via the collection agency now so it is more or less a moot point to contest their existence.


They may be unlikely to buy that argument unless you can somehow prove that your car wasn't where they say it was. Do you have an official copy of the ticket? Are they hand written or printer generated? Could there have been a mistake in the plate number, or did you park in an unlawful space?

Never got a copy of the ticket. They are computer generated and time stamped. Thing is that on this ticket which I never received they were incapable of determining the vehicle model and make...or the plate number - not sure about the plate number, but I never got a ticket so for all I know this ticket came from Narnia.


Are you contesting the ticket, or the additional fine? If the latter, was there a massive wind or snow storm that day that might have blown the ticket away or concealed it? Otherwise, I don't think that case law will help you.

This one I would like to contest entirely unless they can prove without a doubt that it is my car they are fining. And then if they can prove that, then haggle over the increase in fine. Because I think it is complete crap to get an increased fine over something I didn't even know existed. Regarding case law, I have seen a myriad of junk regarding civil contracts. This is a civil dispute. So somewhere there must be a contract binding me to it.

Near as I can tell, as I have been reading my Barbri manual, the city of Rexburg doesn't have standing. They lack cause of action, and cannot show injury or loss to either property or personnel. So I am having a hard time seeing grounds for a tort with them being the plaintiff.

Now me on the other hand...I'm out cash. That is an injury. Financial, but an injury nonetheless. And they are seriously messing with my chi here.

[Cthulhu]

Since I worked in court, I saw how the system worked, civil and criminal. I knew what had to be done. I filed all my own motions, orders, judgments, certificate of service forms relating to custody and child support.

To file any law suit, you must get the style of the case exact. I have seen cases dismissed because the style of the case was wrong. The names were wrong, or they were not the correct party to sue, or one or more of the parties was omitted from the style.

I got blank forms from a judicial asst. and typed them by hand with my information. I then delivered them with necessary copies to the clerk's office to file and get on a docket. Probably a library or the Internet have these forms too.

People are allowed to use the law library in the clerk's office. In a serious case, where case law is needed to support your case, I would not represent myself, most judges don't like non lawyers slowing down the proceedings. The judge has to protect the rights of an unrepresented person, and it slows thing down.

We have a right to represent ourselves, but it's not always prudent. I believe if you are incorporated, and in a law suit pertaining to the incorporated business, you legally cannot represent yourself, you need a lawyer.

^^This. Exactly this. I need to know how to do this sort of stuff. Where do I learn it online?

[Redrose]

^^This. Exactly this. I need to know how to do this sort of stuff. Where do I learn it online?


I'm sure there are sites that could walk you through the paperwork. Google it.
I did it the hard way. I looked in various files in the courthouse, public record, and saw what was filed and what info was needed. I just did the same thing.

Do you want to contest the ticket, or the fact they say the first three are delinquent and sent to collections? I'm not sure you can sue the City for that, well you can sue for anything, but probably won't win. You'll just get an ulcer and it will cost you money.

Run for elected office, city council or the like, and give 'em hell from the inside. I did that in '79, our local school board. They were messing with parents in the elementary and junior high schools, so I got involved. I won and served for almost 2 years. I helped make some good changes. Good luck.

[Peter1469]

^^This. Exactly this. I need to know how to do this sort of stuff. Where do I learn it online?

If you go to the court house, if they are non-lawyer friendly they will have an area with all the forms and info that you need. If they are really friendly it will be on their website.

[Peter1469]

Don't use Google. The government tracks that.

Use Startpage (https://startpage.com/).


I'm sure there are sites that could walk you through the paperwork. Google it.
I did it the hard way. I looked in various files in the courthouse, public record, and saw what was filed and what info was needed. I just did the same thing.

Do you want to contest the ticket, or the fact they say the first three are delinquent and sent to collections? I'm not sure you can sue the City for that, well you can sue for anything, but probably won't win. You'll just get an ulcer and it will cost you money.

Run for elected office, city council or the like, and give 'em hell from the inside. I did that in '79, our local school board. They were messing with parents in the elementary and junior high schools, so I got involved. I won and served for almost 2 years. I helped make some good changes. Good luck.

[Peter1469]

I see the Madison County Courthouse is at 159 E. Main Street. Does E. Main Street extend past 200 in that burg? :smiley:


Rexburg Idaho, Madison county.

...parking tickets. BUT I paid three of the bastards and the 4th we didn't even know about until today. Well Dark Mistress knew but she didn't tell me last night thinking I would be in a rage about this.

...she was correct.

They are saying saying that we didn't pay the first 3 that they sent to collections - which we did.

Did I mention that I hate the city of Rexburg?

[Redrose]

What is Startpage?

Why would the government care if he wants to sue the city? I'm curious now.

[Peter1469]

It looks like the Idaho court system consolidates its web presence to one site. (http://www.isc.idaho.gov/)

Go to locate a court and find the various courts and their rules. I don't see small claims. The place is probably too small for that. District court will handle the ash and trash.

[Cthulhu]

I'm sure there are sites that could walk you through the paperwork. Google it.
I did it the hard way. I looked in various files in the courthouse, public record, and saw what was filed and what info was needed. I just did the same thing.

Do you want to contest the ticket, or the fact they say the first three are delinquent and sent to collections? I'm not sure you can sue the City for that, well you can sue for anything, but probably won't win. You'll just get an ulcer and it will cost you money.

Run for elected office, city council or the like, and give 'em hell from the inside. I did that in '79, our local school board. They were messing with parents in the elementary and junior high schools, so I got involved. I won and served for almost 2 years. I helped make some good changes. Good luck.

Just read up on the topic a little. Filing suit is out of the question now. But I couldn't run even if I wanted too - I don't live there anymore. Frankly I have no desire to either. They have a good campus, but from now on. I am boycotting Rexburg businesses with exception to the date that my wife and I had planned prior to learning of this chicanery.


If you go to the court house, if they are non-lawyer friendly they will have an area with all the forms and info that you need. If they are really friendly it will be on their website.

Yeah...that probably won't work. I'm the guy who made all five clerks count $106.50 in unrolled pennies. Cops hate me, the clerks hate me. If there was bridge, I burned it.

One of those life lessons I suppose. *facepalm*


I see the Madison County Courthouse is at 159 E. Main Street. Does E. Main Street extend past 200 in that burg? :smiley:

Yes. It extends straight into Hell. The hospital I had my appendix taken out at which the VA refused to cover. Bastards.

The Rexburg PD, the courthouse, and the hospital all lie on the same damn street. All of which I have nothing pleasant to remember them by.

A regular visit down memory lane.:riot:

[Peter1469]

Just read up on the topic a little. Filing suit is out of the question now. But I couldn't run even if I wanted too - I don't live there anymore. Frankly I have no desire to either. They have a good campus, but from now on. I am boycotting Rexburg businesses with exception to the date that my wife and I had planned prior to learning of this chicanery.



Yeah...that probably won't work. I'm the guy who made all five clerks count $106.50 in unrolled pennies. Cops hate me, the clerks hate me. If there was bridge, I burned it.

One of those life lessons I suppose. *facepalm*



Yes. It extends straight into Hell. The hospital I had my appendix taken out at which the VA refused to cover. Bastards.

The Rexburg PD, the courthouse, and the hospital all lie on the same damn street. All of which I have nothing pleasant to remember them by.

A regular visit down memory lane.:riot:

I don't understand the VA at all. It took me 6 years but I got full VA coverage and they never asked for my income. My brother is basically paralyzed and has what I would consider to be nothing and they refused him coverage- they want proof of his income (or lack of it). I was talking to a rep on the phone and told him my situation and how much money that I make and had no problem. He responded that I shouldn't tell the VA how much I make (it doesn't matter because of my circumstances). Maybe because he isn't in the top categories for care they are being hard asses about it. But you talk to these people and if you are nice to them they tell you how to game the system (fraud).

Same experience with getting my brother on Medicaid. You have to have less than $2000 in assets to be eligible for Medicaid in Louisiana. WTF? Who doesn't have $2K? Well, the correct answer is who has less than $2K only considering official books.

So I have to move assets around to other accounts and outside of a fucked up federal government program this would be fraud. It is a big waste of my time, his life worth is less than a bi-monthly check of mine after taxes and investments- about half. It just pisses me off.

[Redrose]

Just read up on the topic a little. Filing suit is out of the question now. But I couldn't run even if I wanted too - I don't live there anymore. Frankly I have no desire to either. They have a good campus, but from now on. I am boycotting Rexburg businesses with exception to the date that my wife and I had planned prior to learning of this chicanery.



Yeah...that probably won't work. I'm the guy who made all five clerks count $106.50 in unrolled pennies. Cops hate me, the clerks hate me. If there was bridge, I burned it.

One of those life lessons I suppose. *facepalm*



Yes. It extends straight into Hell. The hospital I had my appendix taken out at which the VA refused to cover. Bastards.

The Rexburg PD, the courthouse, and the hospital all lie on the same damn street. All of which I have nothing pleasant to remember them by.

A regular visit down memory lane.:riot:

I understand your frustration. These political forums don't solve any issues, we just let off steam and vent. I'll say it again, get involved locally. I work with our GOP several hours a week. If we don't like something, work hard to change it, legally and peacefully. Write to your local politicians. Get your voice heard.

[Peter1469]

Is this a local public interest story? Are the residents pissed at tickets that seem to be only for revenue generation? If so, maybe the local paper would do a story on it.

[Dark Mistress]

Is this a local public interest story? Are the residents pissed at tickets that seem to be only for revenue generation? If so, maybe the local paper would do a story on it.

This is what I plan to look into this week. Not for us, but for all those poor, struggling college students who try to donate plasma for a few extra bucks to buy gas or groceries and get screwed over by the PD. It's ridiculous. It's not about a parking ticket and it's not about paying a 20$ fine. My husband donated plasma for years and none of this garbage took place. That money bought our kids Christmas one year. It's how my sister and her husband bought groceries while they were in college. We no longer make any money doing it and they won't take my husband at the donation center in the next city due to non-existent documentation for a surgery he had as an infant.

I am sorry Peter1469 for your brother and the ridiculousness of the VA system. Our issues pale in comparison.

[Redrose]

In 1986 I drove from L.I. to NYC, Park Avenue to my doctors office. I parked on a side street. The no parking sign was confusing but I made sure I was legally parked. I get back to my car and there is a ticket on it for being illegally parked. I checked, I was legal. WTF? I read the ticket it was for my tag, but a yellow VW. I was driving a maroon Cutlass. I sent the ticket to the address with my side of the story. A few weeks later I received a bill from NYC for $50 for the fine with late fees accruing, the reviewing judge found me guilty. I was livid! I didn't pay and a year later I get another bill this time it's $75. So I wrote a letter to Gov. Cuomo with a copy of the ticket and letters. A few weeks later, I received a nice letter saying the mistake was corrected, sorry for the mixup. If we feel we are being unjustly treated, we need to speak up.

[Peter1469]

Don't worry about it. I don't like my brother. He is an asshole.
This is what I plan to look into this week. Not for us, but for all those poor, struggling college students who try to donate plasma for a few extra bucks to buy gas or groceries and get screwed over by the PD. It's ridiculous. It's not about a parking ticket and it's not about paying a 20$ fine. My husband donated plasma for years and none of this garbage took place. That money bought our kids Christmas one year. It's how my sister and her husband bought groceries while they were in college. We no longer make any money doing it and they won't take my husband at the donation center in the next city due to non-existent documentation for a surgery he had as an infant.

I am sorry @Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10) for your brother and the ridiculousness of the VA system. Our issues pale in comparison.