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URF8
06-08-2012, 05:22 PM
I think some of the members of the forum may find this interesting:



http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/

Trinnity
06-08-2012, 08:42 PM
Very interesting. A must see.

MMC
06-08-2012, 08:52 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUiAdGr9QE4&feature=related

I think I can contribute some URF8. :wink:

History of the Races.....Part 1.

Peter1469
06-08-2012, 08:53 PM
Very cool, although it skips the likelihood of ancient antiquity. Civilizations that rose and fell a million years prior.

MMC
06-08-2012, 08:53 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEW5T7Q3fR8&feature=relmfu

Part Two. Human Races.

MMC
06-08-2012, 08:55 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc75WnTHznw&feature=relmfu

3rd and Final part. :smiley:

Chris
06-09-2012, 09:57 AM
Very cool, although it skips the likelihood of ancient antiquity. Civilizations that rose and fell a million years prior.

Not exactly evolutionarily possible.

Where we can quibble with the OP is Myanmar fossil find turns human history on its head - our earliest ancestors came from Asia, not Africa (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2154753/Myanmar-fossil-turns-human-history-head--earliest-ancestors-came-Asia-Africa.html#ixzz1xJAtYUsp). There have been a number of finds lately to support this.

test

MMC
06-09-2012, 10:16 AM
Not exactly evolutionarily possible.

Where we can quibble with the OP is Myanmar fossil find turns human history on its head - our earliest ancestors came from Asia, not Africa (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2154753/Myanmar-fossil-turns-human-history-head--earliest-ancestors-came-Asia-Africa.html#ixzz1xJAtYUsp). There have been a number of finds lately to support this.


Yes the site in Turkey is predating the Pyramids by 7000 years. They call it Göbekli Tepe "Pot Belly Hill".

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/02/18/history-in-the-remaking.html

Schmidt has uncovered a vast and beautiful temple complex, a structure so ancient that it may be the very first thing human beings ever built. The site isn't just old, it redefines old: the temple was built 11,500 years ago—a staggering 7,000 years before the Great Pyramid, and more than 6,000 years before Stonehenge first took shape. The ruins are so early that they predate villages, pottery, domesticated animals, and even agriculture—the first embers of civilization. In fact, Schmidt thinks the temple itself, built after the end of the last Ice Age by hunter-gatherers, became that ember—the spark that launched mankind toward farming, urban life, and all that followed.....snip~

Plus they have the one in the Indus Valley and now they have discovered structures under the Indian Ocean that runs along a plataeu from India to the Continent of Africa.

Peter1469
06-09-2012, 10:37 AM
Not exactly evolutionarily possible.

Where we can quibble with the OP is Myanmar fossil find turns human history on its head - our earliest ancestors came from Asia, not Africa (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2154753/Myanmar-fossil-turns-human-history-head--earliest-ancestors-came-Asia-Africa.html#ixzz1xJAtYUsp). There have been a number of finds lately to support this.


Not exactly evolutionarily possible.

Really?

Chris
06-09-2012, 10:51 AM
Really?

Do you have any evidence?

Peter1469
06-09-2012, 10:56 AM
There is plenty of evidence out there. It is all ignored by main stream scientists.

If a human bone is found in rock strata 1M years old, the bone is hidden away or destroyed with no scientific inquiry.

MMC
06-09-2012, 11:04 AM
Also there is Puma Punko in South America.....which may predate the Egyptian builders too. The Egyptians refuse to accept that Stonehedge is older than the Pyramids. Yet they're are other rings in England and Ireland just not as large as those at Stonehedge.

Peter1469
06-09-2012, 11:08 AM
Based on the water-caused erosion on the base of the pyramids they are likely older than conventional historians claim.

MMC
06-09-2012, 11:16 AM
Based on the water-caused erosion on the base of the pyramids they are likely older than conventional historians claim.


Are you referring to archeologists as historians or just Historians? Schock is a Geo Physicist but I dont know if he covered the Pyramids. He was the one that discovered what appears to be a crypt or tomb under the paw of the Syphinx. The Egyptians and Zahi have held up any exploration for foreigners on it. Plus he has been back to that site off and on with the Japanese Coast and underwater.

Chris
06-09-2012, 11:34 AM
There is plenty of evidence out there. It is all ignored by main stream scientists.

If a human bone is found in rock strata 1M years old, the bone is hidden away or destroyed with no scientific inquiry.

What evidence? Hypotheticals aren't evidence. Neither are myths or mysticism. And remember, we're not talking fossil evidence, but archeological evidence of civilizations prior to the ascent of man.

Chris
06-09-2012, 11:35 AM
Are you referring to archeologists as historians or just Historians? Schock is a Geo Physicist but I dont know if he covered the Pyramids. He was the one that discovered what appears to be a crypt or tomb under the paw of the Syphinx. The Egyptians and Zahi have held up any exploration for foreigners on it. Plus he has been back to that site off and on with the Japanese Coast and underwater.

But millions of years older?

MMC
06-09-2012, 12:06 PM
But millions of years older?

I doubt he was looking at anything millions of years old with what was off the coast of Japan. Although he is a geologist/physicist.

Chris
06-09-2012, 12:20 PM
I was addressing this claim: "Very cool, although it skips the likelihood of ancient antiquity. Civilizations that rose and fell a million years prior." The OP addresses the known beginnings of man and civilization, what we have evidence for. Maybe I misunderstood what Peter was referring to.

wingrider
06-09-2012, 01:31 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9_SDVFHMbk


now scientist say that dinasaurs became extinct 65 millon years ago yet we have this fossilized evidence of man and dinasaurs coexisting..

Chris
06-09-2012, 02:14 PM
The Texas Dinosaur/"Man Track" Controversy (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/paluxy.html): "...the "man track" claims have not stood up to close scientific scrutiny, and in recent years have been abandoned even by most creationists."

wingrider
06-09-2012, 07:11 PM
abandoned because they did not fit into a preconcieved theory that man and dinasaurs did not coexist ... I think there is more in the past life of the earth than we moderm men can ever know..or possibly even concieve,

Chris
06-10-2012, 08:34 AM
abandoned because they did not fit into a preconcieved theory that man and dinasaurs did not coexist ... I think there is more in the past life of the earth than we moderm men can ever know..or possibly even concieve,

Why would creationists abandon it if that were true?

If we can't know or even conceive of something, what value has it?

wingrider
06-10-2012, 09:02 AM
to us... no value other than it goes against the notion that man is a recent addition to the life forms of the earth.. all I am saying is we have only theorys of what was on the earth millions of years ago, whether man and dinasaurs coexisted has little or no bearing on modern man today,

Chris
06-10-2012, 09:06 AM
"it goes against the notion that man is a recent addition to the life forms of the earth"

What is "it"?

That's my point. It's nothing.

MMC
06-10-2012, 09:44 AM
So with what we have so far Chris.....what is your take on this.

The site in Turkey and the one in the Indus Valley predate anything coming out of Africa. Another question would be concerning man and when the continents were all one. Where were the inhabitants of the planet then.

Chris
06-10-2012, 10:03 AM
So with what we have so far Chris.....what is your take on this.

The site in Turkey and the one in the Indus Valley predate anything coming out of Africa. Another question would be concerning man and when the continents were all one. Where were the inhabitants of the planet then.

And the Asian sites predate those.

But here's my opinion, not necessarily scientific, because I don't know enough. I'm not sure why science is trying to find the one, first site of human origins, when there may be many. IOW, the spreading across the face of the earth could have taken place with our ancestors prior to the emergence of homo sapiens.

http://i.snag.gy/rDu7M.jpg

(from earlier link)

Peter1469
06-10-2012, 10:09 AM
And perhaps humans thrived and died off several times over the last several million years.

wingrider
06-10-2012, 10:57 AM
And perhaps humans thrived and died off several times over the last several million years. according to Hopi tradition there have been 4 times the race of man has been depleted by natural disaters,, and there will be a fitfh and final time,


http://www.welcomehome.org/rainbow/prophecy/bayanaca.html


The circle with the 4 (o's) and cross within (above), symbolizes the Four Corners Region (where Utah, Colorado, Arizona and New Mexico meet - a very high energy vortex). The circle represents no end - the infinite Great Spirit. The Indians believe we are the 5th World of Man. When the 4th World was destroyed (this destruction was foretold), those Indians who had listened were guided to places of safety, underground. After the 5th World was created, they assembled at Four Corners and were instructed to spread out in the four directions (north - south - east - west). Four (4) also represents the four elements in nature: fire, water, air and earth; and the four color races of man.
In the Hopi Prophecy, it spoke of a white man who would come to them and help transform the entire continent into a spiritual paradise. He would be recognized because he would carry the fragment of stone which would complete their Holy Stone, filled with Indian writing characters. The Holy Stone had been preserved for thousands of years. Thus, when the white settlers came to the American continent, remembering their prophecy, they were openly welcomed. The Indians shared all they had. But, in return, all the White Man did was to take. The Indians noticed that their White Brothers had brought a cross. However, it was not enclosed by the circle of the Great Spirit, showing the White Man had lost his way

Chris
06-10-2012, 11:17 AM
And perhaps humans thrived and died off several times over the last several million years.

Scientific evidence says no. Again, do you have evidence besides myths and mysticism?

Peter1469
06-10-2012, 11:26 AM
Scientific evidence says no. Again, do you have evidence besides myths and mysticism?

There is lots of evidence. It is just discounted out of hand in a decidedly unscientific manner.

Chris
06-10-2012, 12:12 PM
There is lots of evidence. It is just discounted out of hand in a decidedly unscientific manner.

Do you have evidence of science discounting it out hand--and what is "it" again?

What is scientific but offering an explanation of the evidence at hand and then seeking evidence to falsify that explanation? So if your speculation is scientific, where's your evidence, your explanation, or your null hypothesis--iow, how you would disprove it?

MMC
06-10-2012, 12:14 PM
And the Asian sites predate those.

But here's my opinion, not necessarily scientific, because I don't know enough. I'm not sure why science is trying to find the one, first site of human origins, when there may be many. IOW, the spreading across the face of the earth could have taken place with our ancestors prior to the emergence of homo sapiens.

http://i.snag.gy/rDu7M.jpg

(from earlier link)


What Asian site would predate the Site in Turkey? Also the Sumerians state man was made to be a slave race.

wingrider
06-10-2012, 12:27 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4eFusNctQE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-PBP4WDi-k


I know this is from a christian perspective but the main facts are relevent

Chris
06-10-2012, 12:52 PM
What Asian site would predate the Site in Turkey? Also the Sumerians state man was made to be a slave race.

The Myanmar site, from earlier link: "The birthplace of the human race is Asia - our earliest ancestors came to Asia in a huge migration 37-38 million years ago, before they evolved into present-day apes and humans."

Chris
06-10-2012, 12:54 PM
"I know this is from a christian perspective but the main facts are relevent"

Again, what facts? The videos sound more like a testament to incredulity.

wingrider
06-10-2012, 01:06 PM
Chris and Pete. here are a couple of things..

who built the nasca plain in peru? who built the pryamids of southamerica? how were the stones cut so precisely that you cannot slide a piece of paper between them,, besides that how was ancient technology able to even lift these stones into place when they weigh multple tons that even modern day cranes are unable to lift, ? there are myraids of questions about the earths past that are unanswerable by scientists of today.

Peter1469
06-10-2012, 01:15 PM
Do you have evidence of science discounting it out hand--and what is "it" again?

What is scientific but offering an explanation of the evidence at hand and then seeking evidence to falsify that explanation? So if your speculation is scientific, where's your evidence, your explanation, or your null hypothesis--iow, how you would disprove it?

There have been numerous discoveries of human fossils in rock strata millions of years old. Scientists say no and poison the well so the topic cannot be studied.

Many of the remaining ancient cultures have traditions that speak of these cycles on earth. One was posted above. It is certainly not a new concept. It has been with this entire cycle of human development.

Chris
06-10-2012, 03:10 PM
Chris and Pete. here are a couple of things..

who built the nasca plain in peru? who built the pryamids of southamerica? how were the stones cut so precisely that you cannot slide a piece of paper between them,, besides that how was ancient technology able to even lift these stones into place when they weigh multple tons that even modern day cranes are unable to lift, ? there are myraids of questions about the earths past that are unanswerable by scientists of today.

I suspected earlier we're talking about two different things. To me the topic was the origins of man, not the origins of civilizations. Early civilizations had to wait from man to evolve to create them. The fact you have questions, some that even science cannot answer is the incredulity I mentioned, and does not question science at all.

Chris
06-10-2012, 03:13 PM
There have been numerous discoveries of human fossils in rock strata millions of years old. Scientists say no and poison the well so the topic cannot be studied.

Many of the remaining ancient cultures have traditions that speak of these cycles on earth. One was posted above. It is certainly not a new concept. It has been with this entire cycle of human development.

Way to vague. We know of millions of fossils in the rock stratus supporting the theory of evolution. I can think of none that falsify it. I can think of science discrediting some asuch claims, I can think of none where scientists just say no. Be more specific.

Traditions? You mean myths. Not evidence.

Peter1469
06-10-2012, 03:58 PM
No, Chris. We are talking about actual human bones found in rock strata that is a million years old.

roadmaster
06-10-2012, 04:43 PM
I don't have all the answers but the Bible does speak of giants and fossils have been discovered. "All the people we saw there are of great size. We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them." There was mentioned of ones bed being 14 cubics long, making that person 21 ft. tall in height.

Of course many will discredit these finding. I am also very careful believing anything I see and hear on the internet. Have they found them for sure? I have no idea but I do believe the Bibles our only reliable source when it comes to God's truth.

MMC
06-10-2012, 05:52 PM
The site in Turkey Predates anything coming out of Africa or the ME. Thats at least 6500 years before anything coming out of the ME.

Chris
06-10-2012, 05:53 PM
No, Chris. We are talking about actual human bones found in rock strata that is a million years old.

Again, the Myanmar site, from earlier link: "The birthplace of the human race is Asia - our earliest ancestors came to Asia in a huge migration 37-38 million years ago, before they evolved into present-day apes and humans." Science is way beyond a million years back. It's not dismissed at all.

Chris
06-10-2012, 05:55 PM
I don't have all the answers but the Bible does speak of giants and fossils have been discovered. "All the people we saw there are of great size. We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them." There was mentioned of ones bed being 14 cubics long, making that person 21 ft. tall in height.

Of course many will discredit these finding. I am also very careful believing anything I see and hear on the internet. Have they found them for sure? I have no idea but I do believe the Bibles our only reliable source when it comes to God's truth.

The Bible is a mix of myth, history, literature etc. A lot of truth in it. But I thought we were talking science and evidence.

Chris
06-10-2012, 05:56 PM
The site in Turkey Predates anything coming out of Africa or the ME. Thats at least 6500 years before anything coming out of the ME.

OK, you're talking artifacts, I was talking bones. It took a lot of evolution for man to reach the point he could create culture and such.

MMC
06-10-2012, 06:31 PM
OK, you're talking artifacts, I was talking bones. It took a lot of evolution for man to reach the point he could create culture and such.

Yeah, I was looking more at homo-sapiens and some type of culture.

roadmaster
06-10-2012, 07:59 PM
The Bible is a mix of myth, history, literature etc. A lot of truth in it. But I thought we were talking science and evidence.

I don't consider myth a part of the Bible.

Peter1469
06-10-2012, 08:17 PM
Again, the Myanmar site, from earlier link: "The birthplace of the human race is Asia - our earliest ancestors came to Asia in a huge migration 37-38 million years ago, before they evolved into present-day apes and humans." Science is way beyond a million years back. It's not dismissed at all.

Of course it is. Science doesn't accept that modern humans lived that long ago dispute the evidence.

Chris
06-11-2012, 07:08 AM
I don't consider myth a part of the Bible.

But you consider cultures existing millions of years ago as evidence of creationism. Not really even good religion.

Chris
06-11-2012, 07:10 AM
Of course it is. Science doesn't accept that modern humans lived that long ago dispute the evidence.

Despite what evidence? Be specific about the evidence, cite scientists who reject it out of hand.