Russia Sending Attack Helicopters to Syria..... [Archive]

MMC

06-12-2012, 08:03 PM

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/nJc8zxCM9zmq6B906mvnpA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/thelookout/explosion-hamas.jpg

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said on Tuesday (http://news.yahoo.com/us-russia-sending-syria-attack-helicopters-170359102.html) that Russia is sending a shipment of attack helicopters to Syria, warning that the conflict there could escalate without a regime change.

The United States and United Nations are attempting to put pressure on Russia and China to help end the 15-month conflict that has left more than 13,000 Syrians dead. Russian has refused to cooperate.

But with diplomacy "at a standstill," the Associated Press noted (http://news.yahoo.com/us-russia-sending-syria-attack-helicopters-170359102.html), "the reported shipment of helicopters suggests a dangerous new turn for Syria after more than a year of harsh government crackdowns on mainly peaceful protests and the emergence of an increasingly organized armed insurgency."

During a meeting with envoys from 16 European, Turkish and Arab countries in Istabul on Thursday, Clinton accused Assad of doubling down on "simply unconscionable" violence (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/hillary-clinton-condemns-assad-syria-violence-131137331.html) after reports that at least 78 people—including women and children—had been killed by pro-government forces near Hama the day before.....snip~

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/russia-attack-helicopters-syria-hillary-clinton-191518289.html
The Lookout (http://thepoliticalforums.com/blogs/lookout/) – 4 hrs ago<<<<<

Thats it.....Putin has had enough of Hillary's Big mouth. Wonder if the American People should call Hillary out for Lying about the Rebels killing and refusing to cease fire? Think Hillary can distinguish between a Shia Arab and a Sunni Arab? Shouldn't Hillary have to tell the truth to the American People. Or are we suppose to let her continually lie to us while involving us into a Civil War?

Correction on the Syrian dead. Thats 13,000 Sunni Arabs dead. The ones that started the conflict. Do you think Clinton knows there are over 100 different factions of Rebels fighting Assad? Including AQ and any Sunni Fanatics. Do you think she understand that her remarks are showing that we are involved even tho we are saying we are not?

Looks like Russia has doubled down. Plus now more Ships to Tarterus. I don't think Putin is going to allow Obama and Clinton to drag things out over our Election.

Trinnity

06-12-2012, 09:40 PM

You think we're gonna end up getting involved in this situation?

MMC

06-12-2012, 09:58 PM

You think we're gonna end up getting involved in this situation?

We already are, in the fact that Clinton admitted to helping Rebels evade capture inside Syria. Maybe she thinks there is difference in being involved because we are not giving any weapons to those whom we don't know. As opposed to helping with sateliite tracking to help Rebels get away from an attack.

My thinking is Putin will help Assad to try and close those escape routes off, with use of these types of helicopters. McCain called for the No Fly Zone and for Arming the Rebels. Echoing the French. But even the Brits don't want to attempt that. Plus now with the Russians doing this, I doubt that Turkey will want to attempt to go and invade into Syria.

roadmaster

06-12-2012, 10:12 PM

Clinton and Obama need to stay out of it.

Deadwood

06-12-2012, 10:16 PM

You think we're gonna end up getting involved in this situation?

Yep.

Who else is going to come to the rescue? Cuba?

Let's face it, America's allies are burnt out what with Afghanistan for el;even years now and Iraq for how ever long......and Canada is out of bullets.

MMC

06-12-2012, 10:31 PM

Yep.

Who else is going to come to the rescue? Cuba?

Let's face it, America's allies are burnt out what with Afghanistan for el;even years now and Iraq for how ever long......and Canada is out of bullets.

This started out as a French endeavor with their filing resolutions in the UN. That was under Czarkosy. Now that Hollande is in. I doubt the French will pursue it as they are next after Spain with that IMF bailout. No money nor bullets. Plus he is pulling his troops out of Afghanistan.

But I doubt we will committ any of our Military into this mess. Thats not to say we won't back some Sunni Arab Coalition to go in and try to take Assad down. Problem is if the Sunni do this.....then other Mercs or even disguised as Mercs will go into assist Assad. Course the Sunni have no way to counter the Russians.

China will wait until the very last possible second.....but then they will side with Russia. They just finished their Military Excerices together.

roadmaster

06-12-2012, 10:33 PM

Putin won't run because of Hillary s mouth. We should not be evolved but she is trying. I guess if it becomes to this Bush will get the blame.

RollingWave

06-12-2012, 11:46 PM

Unforunately, if things totally escalate in the region I doubt the US will be able to stay out of it, or at least not feel the pain it brings to the world market. For the present though, Russia is within her rights to do busniess where there is the demand I guess.

moon

06-13-2012, 04:12 AM

Putin won't run because of Hillary s mouth. We should not be evolved but she is trying. I guess if it becomes to this Bush will get the blame.

Why not ? * It was Guantanamo George who declared open war on Islam- * *and attacked the wrong country. * *

MMC

06-13-2012, 04:34 AM

Why not ? * It was Guantanamo George who declared open war on Islam- * *and attacked the wrong country. * *

Got a link that George Bush declared open War on Islam? That would be a link with George Bush calling for War on Muslims. Also what does this have to do with the Russians sending Attack helicopters to Syria.

moon

06-13-2012, 07:38 AM

Got a link that George Bush declared open War on Islam? That would be a link with George Bush calling for War on Muslims. Also what does this have to do with the Russians sending Attack helicopters to Syria.

Sure;

You're either with us, or against us

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The phrase "you're either with us, or against us" and similar variations are used to depict situations as being polarized and to force witnesses, bystanders, or others unaligned with some form of pre-existing conflict to become allies of the speaking party, or lose favor. The implied consequence of not joining the team effort is to be deemed an enemy.

The statement generally is a descriptive statement identifying the beliefs of the speaker(s), and thus state a basic assumption, not a logical conclusion. It may also be interpreted as a speech act. It is sometimes interpreted as a splitting or a false dilemma, which is an informal fallacy.

President George W. Bush, in an address to a joint session of Congress on September 20, 2001 said, "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."[6] This attitude is often qualified of a prime example of Manicheanism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You're_either_with_us,_or_against_us

The terms "Manichaean" and "Manichaeism" are sometimes used figuratively as a synonym of the more general term "dualist" with respect to a philosophy or outlook.[47] They are often used to suggest with a somewhat disparaging undertone that the world view in question simplistically reduces the world to a struggle between Good and Evil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manichaeism#Figurative_use

There you go. Ol' Guantanamo George was a Manichaean and didn't even know it.

Further;

From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime.
Guantanamo George.
http://edition.cnn.com/2001/US/09/20/gen.bush.transcript/

*Clearly, George's notion of who was, and who was not , a ' terrorist ran contrary to sane opinion. *He actually attacked the wrong country. *When he claimed that muslim countries were ' harboring terrorists ' it was George himself who had made the extra-judicial pronouncements. *Thus muslim countries who did not bow to US of AIPAC demands became ' those who are not with us '- *' terrorist regimes- *in George's head- *and George was at war with those.

Also what does this have to do with the Russians sending Attack helicopters to Syria.

Post #7 suggested that Bush might be blamed for the devastation in Syria. *I simply offered reasons why that might actually be true. *

MMC

06-13-2012, 07:48 AM

Sure;

There you go. Ol' Guantanamo George was a Manichaean and didn't even know it.

Funny I didnt see the President of the US Then George Bush State We are Declaring War on Islam. Good thing he didn't as after a week there would be more than likely the only Islamic Followers Elsewheres in the World other than the ME.....huh?

But then again I am glad that you show he didn't even know that no matter what he stated. Those such as yourself would believe your own interpretations. Do you think it may have something to do with those that don't understand the English Language?

roadmaster

06-13-2012, 08:58 AM

Do you think it may have something to do with those that don't understand the English Language?

Him and many Americans. Bush has been out of office and they are still blaming him and protecting their precious Obama.

MMC

06-13-2012, 09:08 AM

Him and many Americans. Bush has been out of office and they are still blaming him and protecting their precious Obama.

Even with that being the case Bush didnt say it.....as going just with their theories. Imagine if a US President said such a thing. While they all admit to the rest of the world being drones and doing whatever the Prez and the US says. Can you imagine the entire free world Hearing such and that call to go to War. All because a a US President said such a thing and against a religion.

It would be like card blanche for all other religions to join in. All of Christomdom, all the Hindus and Buddhists, American Natives and South American natives, including those pagan religions and even the Occultists of the World to join right in. They all would be thinking they are doing the right thing. Hell then even the Chinese and Russians would join in figuring why not as the rest of the world is.

Be like cake work to all if such a thing happened. When the Prez speaks it's like EF.Hutton.

Well thats if you were to go by those wild perceptions of delusion.....huh?

coolwalker

06-13-2012, 09:38 AM

We haven't been able to trust Russians for what...more than a hundred years?

MMC

06-13-2012, 09:46 AM

We haven't been able to trust Russians for what...more than a hundred years?

Yeah true not like anything has changed much there.....huh?

Goldie Locks

06-13-2012, 10:10 AM

roadmaster

06-13-2012, 10:11 AM

Shoot the Goose

06-13-2012, 10:18 AM

John McCain was on TV this morning wanting us to get involved in arming the rebels...talking about the atrocities occurring over there. I say let them kill each other if they want. It's none of our business.

I concur. Despite all the outward bloviating, there is a large contingent that is just fine with Syrians killing Syrians. If I were Israel, I believe my only action would be to keep making popcorn. ;)

Goldie Locks

06-13-2012, 10:20 AM

I concur. Despite all the outward bloviating, there is a large contingent that is just fine with Syrians killing Syrians. If I were Israel, I believe my only action would be to keep making popcorn. ;)

Exactly!!!

moon

06-13-2012, 10:22 AM

I think John McCain should go and take Obama with him.

What ? *You would disparage the man who wanted to give you Vice President Palin ? *

MMC

06-13-2012, 10:27 AM

John McCain was on TV this morning wanting us to get involved in arming the rebels...talking about the atrocities occurring over there. I say let them kill each other if they want. It's none of our business.

Plus he wants a No Fly Zone like safe haven inside Syria for the Rebels. He isn't listening as that senility is setting in. There are over 100 different armed rebel factions. So he must not have heard Panetta and even some other Military strategic analysts talking about thats why you don't give weapons out to those that one does not know nor will know. Which would then gain power.

But then again No one ever said McCain was smart when it came to Military Strategy.

Still Congress should call Clinton back to answer for her statements and admitting to the World that We are assisting certain rebels (Free Syrian Army) which now all across the World consider a Civil War. She can no longer hide behide the Press with her terminology.

roadmaster

06-13-2012, 10:31 AM

What ? *You would disparage the man who wanted to give you Vice President Palin ? *

McCain was never for the American people.

Shoot the Goose

06-13-2012, 10:34 AM

Plus he wants a No Fly Zone like safe haven inside Syria for the Rebels. He isn't listening as that senility is setting in. There are over 100 different armed rebel factions. So he must not have heard Panetta and even some other Military strategic analysts talking about thats why you don't give weapons out to those that one does not know nor will know. Which would then gain power.

But then again No one ever said McCain was smart when it came to Military Strategy.

Still Congress should call Clinton back to answer for her statements and admitting to the World that We are assisting certain rebels (Free Syrian Army) which now all across the World consider a Civil War. She can no longer hide behide the Press with her terminology.

Agreed. John beating this war drum sounds a bit out of time. As for Hillary, her job is to wave and pontificate, while insuring that we do nothing of much consequence. Of course, we could actually be conspiring with the Russians. You send weapons. We'll send weapons. They will kill each other. Even if not a joint plan, it is the clear result of current actions.

MMC

06-13-2012, 11:01 AM

Agreed. John beating this war drum sounds a bit out of time. As for Hillary, her job is to wave and pontificate, while insuring that we do nothing of much consequence. Of course, we could actually be conspiring with the Russians. You send weapons. We'll send weapons. They will kill each other. Even if not a joint plan, it is the clear result of current actions.

Well actually the Saudi and the Qataris are pushing for weaponization of the Rebels. Which they have from the start. Now that Qatar set up that bank with the Libyan venture with the help of the French and their play. The Saud has a way to funnel cash to the Sunni Rebels as well as arms to keep fighting against Assad.

The way the Saud look at it.....doesnt matter that the Leaders of The Free Syrian Army or the MB gets killed. As they can supply any other Sunni to take the lead without the Saud having to go in and fight. Typical MO with them. Always fighting from the rear-end.

Peter1469

06-13-2012, 05:12 PM

Russia would love very much for the US to get bogged down in another ME war.

MMC

06-13-2012, 05:33 PM

Russia would love very much for the US to get bogged down in another ME war.

Heya Pete.....do you think those Rebels get their AKs from the US and the Suad.

Peter1469

06-13-2012, 05:42 PM

Nope.

MMC

06-13-2012, 05:59 PM

Nope.

Think there is anything on how much Arms and weapons that the Saud buy from the East besides what they get from the US?

MMC

06-13-2012, 07:04 PM

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton warns Russia over Syria

Secretary of the State Hillary Rodham Clinton said that Russia is putting its "vital interests" and relationships in the Middle East at risk if it does not act constructively on Syria, which, she said, is "spiraling towards civil war."

Clinton's warning came a day after she accused Russia of providing a shipment of attack helicopters to Syria (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/russia-attack-helicopters-syria-hillary-clinton-191518289.html)—a claim that Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov denied (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57452386/russia-rejects-hillary-clintons-claims-of-sending-attack-helicopters-to-syrian-regimes-military/). Lavrov, in turn, accused Washington of giving arms to rebels (http://news.yahoo.com/syria-now-civil-war-un-official-says-021641332.html).

"The United States has provided no military support to the Syrian opposition," Clinton said Wednesday. "None.".....snip~

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/secretary-state-hillary-clinton-warns-russia-over-syria-183214042.html
The Lookout (http://thepoliticalforums.com/blogs/lookout/) – 5 hrs ago<<<<<

So much for the made up rhetoric from those in the ME.....do you think they will ever figure out how much the Saud just owns them ALL? Well except for Israel that is?

Shoot the Goose

06-13-2012, 07:18 PM

MMC

06-13-2012, 07:26 PM

Again, I am reminded of episodes past. The Contras. We used Israel to trans-ship weapons and supplies to the Contras. I was OK with that, but it was a bit hard to otherwise fathom Israel with a strategic interest in Nicaragua. ;)

We are surely giving the Sauds a wink and a nod, ............ and a boatload and a planeload. The Sauds and the Israeli's are sleeping the best while the Syrians blow each other away.

Yeah.....it's not like we can tell them. Hey, don't do that! :laugh:

Peter1469

06-13-2012, 07:47 PM

Think there is anything on how much Arms and weapons that the Saud buy from the East besides what they get from the US?

I don't really know about Saudi arms buying habits.

Sultan

06-14-2012, 04:09 AM

I don't really know about Saudi arms buying habits.

Google Saudi billionaire Adnan Khashoggi and Iran Contra

The history of BCCI is another interesting part in the whole game between Saudi and US terrorist funding and money laundering and arms deals and prostitution etc
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/1995/2241_bcci.html

MMC

06-14-2012, 01:57 PM

I don't really know about Saudi arms buying habits.

There really is no differences as the Saud will buy from whomever. Russian, American, Chinese. Whoever they can get weapons from.

Do you think the Saudi will tell their Slaves the Egyptians to go and fight Assad now that they have bought the Egyptian Military?

Peter1469

06-14-2012, 03:35 PM

There really is no differences as the Saud will buy from whomever. Russian, American, Chinese. Whoever they can get weapons from.

Do you think the Saudi will tell their Slaves the Egyptians to go and fight Assad now that they have bought the Egyptian Military?

I don't think that the Egyptian military would do much.

Peter1469

06-14-2012, 03:38 PM

Here is a run-down of the Saudi military w/o a break down of specifics: http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=Saudi-Arabia

Here is a run down of Egypt's military. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equipment_of_the_modern_Egyptian_Army A lot more US equipment than Soviet.

MMC

06-14-2012, 03:42 PM

I don't think that the Egyptian military would do much.

Do you think the Egyptian Military is a cut above the rest in the ME Pete. Where do you think they rank in terms of Military Standing? Think they sent any to go fight Assad as mercs?

Do you think they can stand up to the Suad on their own with help from any others?

How would you rate them in taking on say the Taliban or AQ?

Peter1469

06-14-2012, 03:54 PM

Do you think the Egyptian Military is a cut above the rest in the ME Pete. Where do you think they rank in terms of Military Standing? Think they sent any to go fight Assad as mercs?

Do you think they can stand up to the Suad on their own with help from any others?

How would you rate them in taking on say the Taliban or AQ?

Egypt's military will do just find against either the Saudis or the Syrians, if the Saudis or Syrians invade Egypt. Hands down. Egypt doesn't have the logistical capacity to move and sustain forces in either Saudi Arabia or Syria. But that is the same problem they have- they would never invade Egypt.

Peter1469

06-14-2012, 03:56 PM

As far as taking on transnational militants inside of Egypt, Egypt relies on its intelligence agencies not its military. And political correctness is an unknown word, so they are pretty effective. I have no knowledge of Egypt running agents outside of Egypt.

MMC

06-14-2012, 04:14 PM

Egypt's military will do just find against either the Saudis or the Syrians, if the Saudis or Syrians invade Egypt. Hands down. Egypt doesn't have the logistical capacity to move and sustain forces in either Saudi Arabia or Syria. But that is the same problem they have- they would never invade Egypt.

Yes but lets not forget to take on the Saud means to take on all Sunni. I don't think Egypt could withstand that onslaught.

Peter1469

06-14-2012, 05:26 PM

Yes but lets not forget to take on the Saud means to take on all Sunni. I don't think Egypt could withstand that onslaught.

I think that they could. What would a "all Sunni (sans Egyptian) onslaught look like? A bunch of scattered cells using small arms and IEDs? How would they take territory?

MMC

06-14-2012, 06:00 PM

I think that they could. What would a "all Sunni (sans Egyptian) onslaught look like? A bunch of scattered cells using small arms and IEDs? How would they take territory?

Well I figured they would have to fight a a guerilla type warfare. Using suicide bombers and going after the military, staying mobile as I believe they have more of the smaller mechanized units, kinda like the new version of the Desert Rats. While striking with whatever slight airpower they have. While going for a key installation and getting the drop on an armored mechanized unit, by inflitration and the wearing of Egyptian Military Uniforms. While blowing the Aswar Dam and taking out their electrical grid, while having the Sunni striking from the Libyan side of Egypt terrorizing the Western part of the Country, using Small Artillery and while going for an Egyptian Air Force base. (sp) (spur of the moment and off the top of my head) Not that I looked into a real study of it. :grin:

Peter1469

06-14-2012, 07:18 PM

Well I figured they would have to fight a a guerilla type warfare. Using suicide bombers and going after the military, staying mobile as I believe they have more of the smaller mechanized units, kinda like the new version of the Desert Rats. While striking with whatever slight airpower they have. While going for a key installation and getting the drop on an armored mechanized unit, by inflitration and the wearing of Egyptian Military Uniforms. While blowing the Aswar Dam and taking out their electrical grid, while having the Sunni striking from the Libyan side of Egypt terrorizing the Western part of the Country, using Small Artillery and while going for an Egyptian Air Force base. (sp) (spur of the moment and off the top of my head) Not that I looked into a real study of it. :grin:

Wars aren't won that way, unless the host nation just gives up.

moon

06-16-2012, 06:11 AM

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/nJc8zxCM9zmq6B906mvnpA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/thelookout/explosion-hamas.jpg

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said on Tuesday (http://news.yahoo.com/us-russia-sending-syria-attack-helicopters-170359102.html) that Russia is sending a shipment of attack helicopters to Syria, warning that the conflict there could escalate without a regime change.

The United States and United Nations are attempting to put pressure on Russia and China to help end the 15-month conflict that has left more than 13,000 Syrians dead. Russian has refused to cooperate.

But with diplomacy "at a standstill," the Associated Press noted (http://news.yahoo.com/us-russia-sending-syria-attack-helicopters-170359102.html), "the reported shipment of helicopters suggests a dangerous new turn for Syria after more than a year of harsh government crackdowns on mainly peaceful protests and the emergence of an increasingly organized armed insurgency."

During a meeting with envoys from 16 European, Turkish and Arab countries in Istabul on Thursday, Clinton accused Assad of doubling down on "simply unconscionable" violence (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/hillary-clinton-condemns-assad-syria-violence-131137331.html) after reports that at least 78 people—including women and children—had been killed by pro-government forces near Hama the day before.....snip~

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/russia-attack-helicopters-syria-hillary-clinton-191518289.html
The Lookout (http://thepoliticalforums.com/blogs/lookout/) – 4 hrs ago<<<<<

*

How could the US of AIPAC Secretary of State be so out of touch and ill-informed *? *Doesn't it make you worry about US foreign policy ? *

US backtracks on claims Russia is arming Syrian regime

15 Jun 2012: State department acknowledges Damascus already owned attack helicopters, cited by Hillary Clinton as escalating violence

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/15/us-backtracks-russia-syrian-regime

MMC

06-16-2012, 07:40 AM

Wars aren't won that way, unless the host nation just gives up.

Well I didn't include hitting the Water Resovoirs and Supply. :wink:

Peter1469

06-16-2012, 08:16 AM

Still, wars are won by conquering and holding land.

MMC

06-16-2012, 08:38 AM

Still, wars are won by conquering and holding land.

Think Clinton can rely on Turkey? Erdogan is the one that let the Col of the Free Syrian Army Rebels and leader set up a post inside Turkey. Do you think if they were terminate the Col. That such will hold up most of the rebellion other than the attacks by AQ. Which Assad should be to handle himself.

Do you think we should be following her judgement on this?

Peter1469

06-16-2012, 09:07 AM

MMC

06-16-2012, 09:48 AM

Turkey is at a geopolitical cross roads. It desires to become a regional power. Well, to do that it has to act like one. They need to oppose Assad and weaken Iran's influence in the ME, thus becoming a regional power.

What if Assad wasn't planning on being so close with Iran? Was looking for more Western modernization and the capitalistic venture.

Peter1469

06-16-2012, 10:07 AM

What if Assad wasn't planning on being so close with Iran? Was looking for more Western modernization and the capitalistic venture.

I see no evidence of that. Assad is an Iranian puppet.

waltky

10-25-2012, 01:16 AM

Granny says, "Dat's right - an' tell `em if dey don't quit armin' Assad, we'll give `em some o' dem Stinger missiles to fling at the helicopters Russia been supplyin' `em with like we did in Afghanistan...
:kiss:
Russia: Syrian Rebels Have US-Made Anti-Aircraft Weapons
October 24, 2012 — Russia’s senior general says that rebels in Syria have acquired shoulder-mounted surface-to-air missiles, including a model made in the United States. General Staff Chief Nikolai Marakov says that officials need to determine who supplied the weapons to Syria’s opposition.

Interfax news agency quotes General Nikolai Marakov as saying "that militants fighting Syrian government forces have portable missile launchers of various states, including American-made Stingers.” He did not make any direct accusation of how the rebels acquired the weapons.

In Washington, the Pentagon had no immediate comment. In the past, the U.S. government has denied supplying Syrian rebels with weapons or having any information that American-made weapons are in the hands of rebel forces. Marakov’s comments are part of a back and forth between Moscow and Washington regarding the conflict in Syria.

Russia has blocked three attempts in the United Nations Security Council to impose sanctions against its long-time ally, saying dialogue with both the opposition and the government of President Bashar al-Assad is necessary for peace.

MORE (http://www.voanews.com/content/russia-syrian-rebels-have-us-made-anti-aircraft-weapons/1532365.html)