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protectionist
01-20-2015, 05:07 PM
The economy is no longer the # 1 concern of Americans. It has been surpassed by the threat of terrorism according to a new Pew Research Center poll just released (Jan. 15, 2015). In it, 76% of Americans cite terrorism as the top priority for Obama and the Congress. Among Republicans, terrorism is a massive top priority with 87% citing it as such, far above taxation, global trade, and moral values.

The new poll also finds that the goal of strengthening the military has increased in importance. Currently, 52% say strengthening the military should be a top policy priority for the president and Congress this year, up from 41% in January 2013.

http://www.people-press.org/2015/01/...me-and-abroad/ (http://www.people-press.org/2015/01/15/publics-policy-priorities-reflect-changing-conditions-at-home-and-abroad/)

Mac-7
01-20-2015, 05:20 PM
The half kenyan wants to increase spending 7 percent but I don't think any of that is going to the military.

Private Pickle
01-20-2015, 05:26 PM
It should be a concern but not one that overshadows the economy. Terrorism is a component of the economy so being more worried about that than the actual economy is like being worried about the chemo instead of the cancer (not that terrorism is a cure for our economy)...

Polecat
01-20-2015, 05:27 PM
More people die in the war on drugs every minute than jihadists could kill in a month. Who's the terrorist again?

The Xl
01-20-2015, 05:28 PM
More people die in the war on drugs every minute than jihadists could kill in a month. Who's the terrorist again?

/Thread.

Mac-7
01-20-2015, 05:30 PM
More people die in the war on drugs every minute than jihadists could kill in a month. Who's the terrorist again?

The difference is the victims in Paris didn't ask to die.

Drug zombies embrace the instrument of their death.

donttread
01-20-2015, 06:07 PM
Wasn't their "main concern" their own government just last week? Fucking stupid, attention spanless sheep

Green Arrow
01-20-2015, 07:28 PM
They obviously didn't ask me and the people I hang with (yo Alyosha, 'sup?) 'cause I would have said my government is my number one concern.

Ethereal
01-20-2015, 08:49 PM
The difference is the victims in Paris didn't ask to die.

Neither did the children of Iraq and Afghanistan.


Drug zombies embrace the instrument of their death.

He's talking about being shot by police, killed in prison, things like that. Drug prohibition causes much death and suffering.

Ethereal
01-20-2015, 08:51 PM
Wasn't their "main concern" their own government just last week? $#@!ing stupid, attention spanless sheep

It's only a temporary blip in the wake of an emotional response. Of course, a blip is all the politicians need in order to ram through their agenda before everyone comes back to their senses. Fear is the number one tool of politicians. People who are scared will do almost anything if they think they're being protected.

Redrose
01-20-2015, 09:04 PM
The half kenyan wants to increase spending 7 percent but I don't think any of that is going to the military.


It will probably go to sweeten the pot for more illegals to come here. He will tax us and give to them. Income redistribution in it's purest sense. He said he wanted that. Why didn't they believe him?

protectionist
01-21-2015, 01:49 AM
They obviously didn't ask me and the people I hang with (yo @Alyosha (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=863), 'sup?) 'cause I would have said my government is my number one concern.

Why ? Are you one of the terrorists ? Just wondering.... from how you phrased that.

Actually, my govt is my number one concern too. Because of being too soft toward Islam and the terrorists. But we are always going to have a few oddballs (some of the 24% right here in the forum) :icon_biggrin:

protectionist
01-21-2015, 01:51 AM
Neither did the children of Iraq and Afghanistan.


Neither did the children of Berlin, Hamburg, Dresden. Want to gamble on Nazi victory ?

protectionist
01-21-2015, 01:52 AM
It's only a temporary blip in the wake of an emotional response. Of course, a blip is all the politicians need in order to ram through their agenda before everyone comes back to their senses. Fear is the number one tool of politicians. People who are scared will do almost anything if they think they're being protected.

So you're saying it's just politicians who are scaring the American people ? No blame on the terrorists ?

PS - EARTH TO ETHEREAL: The Republican Congress can't do squat without Obama's OK. But Obama can do his executive orders without the Congress. So you could only be talking about Obama. But that wouldn't make sense because Obama isn't for counterterrorism. He is just the opposite (witness his opposition to FBI monitoring in mosques, for just one example)

Redrose
01-21-2015, 02:28 AM
His promise to hunt down and catch terrorists was disturbing, very disingenuous. His words do not match his actions. Bush already hunted them down and locked them up.

If Obama would stop releasing them from Gitmo, he wouldn't have to keep "hunting them down" with his phoney threat. He released 5 top terrorists for that fool Bergdhal. Whose side is he on?

He's full of baloney!

donttread
01-21-2015, 05:52 AM
It's only a temporary blip in the wake of an emotional response. Of course, a blip is all the politicians need in order to ram through their agenda before everyone comes back to their senses. Fear is the number one tool of politicians. People who are scared will do almost anything if they think they're being protected.

Yup, a couple weeks ago we were supposedly closing bases in Europe and now instead the war drums beat

Peter1469
01-21-2015, 06:10 AM
We are moving some armor units back into Europe as a result of Russian policy in the Ukraine. Armor isn't going to be deployed against terrorists in Paris.

donttread
01-21-2015, 06:38 AM
We'll be all in chasing now the new and improved ISIS bogeyman in no time

donttread
01-21-2015, 06:45 AM
Neither did the children of Iraq and Afghanistan.



He's talking about being shot by police, killed in prison, things like that. Drug prohibition causes much death and suffering.

Yes, the war on drugs takes many lives, everyone important to someone

Common
01-21-2015, 07:16 AM
I wish someone could explain to me why the progressive left, defends terrorists to a fault.
Why do they jump in relentlessly no matter how many americans they murder, or how much murder and mayhem they commit around the world.

There is no defense of these murdering scum, whos numbers GROW not diminish. The progressive left keeps trying to tell us its only a few. BS!!!!!!!! the mentality is in millions of them via thier religious beliefs.

Its time for the world to tell the progressive left to F -off when it comes to muslim and terrorists and for the world to kick their ass and get it over.

Personally I am sick and tired of our troops dieing and getting mangled by the scumbags and having to watch weekly videos of some pos in black telling us hes going to cut someone elses head off in an attempt to intimidate the world. Lets cut his fricken head off instead.

Mac-7
01-21-2015, 08:39 AM
Neither did the children of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Thats your excuse for terrorism in Paris?

If we leave a billion crazy, backward islams alone they will leave us alone?

But these were not afghan or Iraqis striking a blow for Shria law or Allah, but citizens of France.




He's talking about being shot by police, killed in prison, things like that. Drug prohibition causes much death and suffering.

But they also ingest too much drugs and kill themselves, don't they?

And murder each other in competition for drug zombie market share.

The Xl
01-21-2015, 10:20 AM
We'll be all in chasing now the new and improved ISIS bogeyman in no time

A little propaganda and all the simpletons will fall for it.

Common Sense
01-21-2015, 10:23 AM
Terrorism? Meh....

The Xl
01-21-2015, 10:24 AM
Terrorism? Meh....

Contractors, big oil, and bankers got to get paid. And if the public is losing interest and support in these wars, we need to prop up or exaggerate a threat.

Common Sense
01-21-2015, 10:26 AM
Contractors, big oil, and bankers got to get paid. And if the public is losing interest and support in these wars, we need to prop up or exaggerate a threat.

...or people just love to be scared. It makes for exciting news and sells toothpaste and toilet paper.

The Xl
01-21-2015, 10:27 AM
...or people just love to be scared. It makes for exciting news and sells toothpaste and toilet paper.

They love to be scared sure, but it's not just the media selling them on the shit, it's the government, and when you look at who pays for their campaigns, what's going on is pretty apparent.

PolWatch
01-21-2015, 10:28 AM
There isn't an election pending so we don't need to talk about Ebola....gotta have something to keep people too scared to look behind the curtains!

They're coming for us! Get the duct tape ready!

Common Sense
01-21-2015, 10:30 AM
They love to be scared sure, but it's not just the media selling them on the $#@!, it's the government, and when you look at who pays for their campaigns, what's going on is pretty apparent.

Yeah, I don't know if I buy that....

The Xl
01-21-2015, 10:31 AM
Yeah, I don't know if I buy that....

Yeah, they're just paying for their campaigns for their health. True.

Common Sense
01-21-2015, 10:33 AM
Yeah, they're just paying for their campaigns for their health. True.

They're paying for their campaigns so they can write legislation that suits them and benefits them financially.

To claim that they promote fear through manipulation in order to control takes that to another level.

The Xl
01-21-2015, 10:35 AM
They're paying for their campaigns so they can write legislation that suits them.

To claim that they promote fear through manipulation in order to control takes that to another level.

You just admitted their is a profit incentive. Just take that to it's next logical conclusion.

It's obvious we have no business over there, and that what we're doing isn't helping anyone, with the exception of those industries profiting huge, the same industries with said profit incentive, the same industries who buy our politicians off.

Howey
01-21-2015, 11:59 AM
There were more children killed by bullets at Newttown than in Paris.

Where's the millions swarming the streets protesting that terrorism?

texan
01-21-2015, 12:22 PM
Not an issue according to Bama.

Green Arrow
01-21-2015, 12:52 PM
Why ? Are you one of the terrorists ? Just wondering.... from how you phrased that.

Actually, my govt is my number one concern too. Because of being too soft toward Islam and the terrorists. But we are always going to have a few oddballs (some of the 24% right here in the forum) :icon_biggrin:

My government creates terrorists. It creates poverty. It creates crime. It divides my people. And it does all of this while stripping me of my freedoms.

Ethereal
01-21-2015, 12:58 PM
Why ? Are you one of the terrorists ?

Even innocent people are not safe from the US government.


Actually, my govt is my number one concern too.

So you are a terrorist?

PolWatch
01-21-2015, 01:02 PM
The Patriot Act will only be used against terrorists. :rollseyes:

Private Pickle
01-21-2015, 01:03 PM
More people die in the war on drugs every minute than jihadists could kill in a month. Who's the terrorist again?

Minutes?

Private Pickle
01-21-2015, 01:06 PM
His promise to hunt down and catch terrorists was disturbing, very disingenuous. His words do not match his actions. Bush already hunted them down and locked them up.

If Obama would stop releasing them from Gitmo, he wouldn't have to keep "hunting them down" with his phoney threat. He released 5 top terrorists for that fool Bergdhal. Whose side is he on?

He's full of baloney!

I dunno... The guy sends drones in like they are interns looking for cigars... Not that I disagree with it. If we can kill them without endangering American lives I'm all for it.

Private Pickle
01-21-2015, 01:07 PM
We'll be all in chasing now the new and improved ISIS bogeyman in no time

It's only a bogeyman because YOU are not affected by it.

Ethereal
01-21-2015, 01:08 PM
Neither did the children of Berlin, Hamburg, Dresden. Want to gamble on Nazi victory ?

WWII is probably the third best example (behind WWI and the "civil" war) of a needless and incredibly destructive war that caused far more problems than it solved.

But even if WWII was a justified war, that fact, in and of itself, does not justify every American war thereafter. Introducing Nazism into a discussion about Islamic rebels and militants is a non-sequitur.

southwest88
01-21-2015, 01:12 PM
It will probably go to sweeten the pot for more illegals to come here. He will tax us and give to them. Income redistribution in it's purest sense. He said he wanted that. Why didn't they believe him?

& you're in East Tennessee? & you don't see the irony in that?

"Word Origin and History for Tennessee Expand state and river, from Cherokee (Iroquoian) village name ta'nasi', of unknown origin.

Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper"

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee_language
"Current status[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cherokee_language&action=edit&section=7)]

Main article: Status of the Cherokee language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_of_the_Cherokee_language)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Swyddfa_Bost_Tahlequah.jpg/375px-Swyddfa_Bost_Tahlequah.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Swyddfa_Bost_Tahlequah.jpg)
Tahlequah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tahlequah) is a city in Oklahoma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma) where Cherokee is still predominantly spoken.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/91/Kituwah_Academy.png/375px-Kituwah_Academy.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kituwah_Academy.png)
A lesson at Kituwah Academy on the Qualla Boundary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualla_Boundary) in North Carolina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Carolina). The language immersion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_immersion) school, operated by the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Band_of_Cherokee_Indians), teaches the same curriculum as other American primary schools (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_schools), but the Cherokee language is the medium of instruction from pre-school (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-school) on up and students learn it as a first language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_language). Such schools have proven instrumental in the preservation and perpetuation of the Cherokee language.

"The Cherokee language currently retains between 10,400[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee_language#cite_note-Ethnologue17-10) and 22,500 speakers,[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee_language#cite_note-about-17) being spoken by roughly 10,000 of the 122,000 member Cherokee Nation in Oklahoma, by 1,000 of the 10,000 Eastern Band of Cherokee in North Carolina, and by a high percentage of the 7,500 members of the United Keetoowah Band of Oklahoma and Arkansas.[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee_language#cite_note-Ethnologue17-10) Cherokee speakers make up 17% of the total population of Cherokee people (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee_people),[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee_language#cite_note-CARLA-5) and over 60% of the total population of the United Keetoowah Band.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee_language#cite_note-official-6)[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee_language#cite_note-Keetoowah-7) In 1986, the literacy rate for first language speakers was 15%–20% who could read and 5% who could write, according to the 1986 Cherokee Heritage Center (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee_Heritage_Center).[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee_language#cite_note-Ethnologue17-10)"

What do the Native Peoples think of the terrorism threat, I wonder?

Matty
01-21-2015, 01:12 PM
My government creates terrorists. It creates poverty. It creates crime. It divides my people. And it does all of this while stripping me of my freedoms.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/19/world-giving-index-us-ran_n_1159562.html

Ethereal
01-21-2015, 01:14 PM
Minutes?

There's a strong argument to be made there. For example, nobody in America died from a terrorist attack last month (correct me if I'm wrong), but surely "many" Americans died from something related to the war on drugs and its unintended consequences. For example, drug prohibition creates black market drug cartels, which result in many thousands of deaths each year. Then you have the millions of non-violent drug offenders rotting away in prison or jail or some kind of legal limbo. This is probably the biggest opportunity cost that is imposed on America right now, are the millions upon millions of non-productive prisoners and probates who are relegated to poverty (and all the negative side effects that come with it) by drug prohibition. And housing those prisoners, and paying the army of cops, guards, lawyers, and judges who put them there, is not cheap. Another massive opportunity cost that takes away vital resources and throws them down a black hole.

Ethereal
01-21-2015, 01:15 PM
The Patriot Act will only be used against terrorists. :rollseyes:

Is that sarcasm? What are you, some kind of not a patriot?

:grin:

Matty
01-21-2015, 01:17 PM
There's a strong argument to be made there. For example, nobody in America died from a terrorist attack last month (correct me if I'm wrong), but surely "many" Americans died from something related to the war on drugs and its unintended consequences. For example, drug prohibition creates black market drug cartels, which result in many thousands of deaths each year. Then you have the millions of non-violent drug offenders rotting away in prison or jail or some kind of legal limbo. This is probably the biggest opportunity cost that is imposed on America right now, are the millions upon millions of non-productive prisoners and probates who are relegated to poverty (and all the negative side effects that come with it) by drug prohibition. And housing those prisoners, and paying the army of cops, guards, lawyers, and judges who put them there, is not cheap. Another massive opportunity cost that takes away vital resources and throws them down a black hole.


So, if drugs are made legal no one will die? Well alrighty then, I'm convinced. Let's do it.

Ethereal
01-21-2015, 01:18 PM
I dunno... The guy sends drones in like they are interns looking for cigars... Not that I disagree with it. If we can kill them without endangering American lives I'm all for it.

But drones cause the deaths of innocent people, which creates more terrorists and inflames anti-American sentiment all across the world, so it IS endangering American lives.

Alyosha
01-21-2015, 01:22 PM
So, if drugs are made legal no one will die? Well alrighty then, I'm convinced. Let's do it.

Fewer people will die because we won't have turf wars, nor will the drugs be cut with cleaning fluid and carpet fiber. Moreover, the progression from certain drugs to heroin will not happen due to lack of availability. That would account for close to 1/4 of drug related deaths.

However, alcohol which is the drug most associated with death will still remain a threat because it is the most widely abused and also the one people know little about. All central nervous system depressants have high potential for death. This is why AA is largely responsible for the deaths of many with their "Cold Turkey" approach rather than the taper off, because their Big Book was written before we had an understanding of brain chemistry and the complexities of the central nervous system.

One of my best friend's from high school's father died in the hospital from DTs and he only went in for knee surgery. Forty years of excessive drinking to be abated overnight caused system shock. It was bizarre. You go in for knee surgery and die.

Ethereal
01-21-2015, 01:25 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/19/world-giving-index-us-ran_n_1159562.html

There's a difference between private charity and the US government. A "conservative" ought to know that!

Private Pickle
01-21-2015, 01:28 PM
There's a strong argument to be made there. For example, nobody in America died from a terrorist attack last month (correct me if I'm wrong), but surely "many" Americans died from something related to the war on drugs and its unintended consequences. For example, drug prohibition creates black market drug cartels, which result in many thousands of deaths each year. Then you have the millions of non-violent drug offenders rotting away in prison or jail or some kind of legal limbo. This is probably the biggest opportunity cost that is imposed on America right now, are the millions upon millions of non-productive prisoners and probates who are relegated to poverty (and all the negative side effects that come with it) by drug prohibition. And housing those prisoners, and paying the army of cops, guards, lawyers, and judges who put them there, is not cheap. Another massive opportunity cost that takes away vital resources and throws them down a black hole.

I agree to an extent. Things like MJ are more easily deregulated and legalized given the health issues are not extensive. But throw heroin in that mix and who is going to sell it? The liability would be a lawyer's wet dream. So if you deregulate say meth then all it does is make it easier for the cartels to distribute. I'm genuinely interested in this topic given I am all for the dismantling the War on Drugs.

Matty
01-21-2015, 01:29 PM
Fewer people will die because we won't have turf wars, nor will the drugs be cut with cleaning fluid and carpet fiber. Moreover, the progression from certain drugs to heroin will not happen due to lack of availability. That would account for close to 1/4 of drug related deaths.

However, alcohol which is the drug most associated with death will still remain a threat because it is the most widely abused and also the one people know little about. All central nervous system depressants have high potential for death. This is why AA is largely responsible for the deaths of many with their "Cold Turkey" approach rather than the taper off, because their Big Book was written before we had an understanding of brain chemistry and the complexities of the central nervous system.

One of my best friend's from high school's father died in the hospital from DTs and he only went in for knee surgery. Forty years of excessive drinking to be abated overnight caused system shock. It was bizarre. You go in for knee surgery and die.


Oh dear! A contradiction. Legaluze drugs problems solved. Legalize alcohol still a threat! So if addicts abuse alcohol how do you arrive at the conclusion that addicts will not abuse drugs? And what exactly is it that will make heroin disappear again?


It is a possibility you friends father did not tell the surgeon of his drinking problem prior to surgery!

Matty
01-21-2015, 01:31 PM
There's a difference between private charity and the US government. A "conservative" ought to know that!


I suppose you've never heard of our gargantuan foreign aid program?

Green Arrow
01-21-2015, 01:33 PM
I suppose you've never heard of our gargantuan foreign aid program?

Yes, that brilliant program where we're actively giving financial aid to Israel AND Palestine, and to countries we have active sanctions on like Russia and Iran.

Private Pickle
01-21-2015, 01:33 PM
But drones cause the deaths of innocent people, which creates more terrorists and inflames anti-American sentiment all across the world, so it IS endangering American lives.

Yes they do. But I don't buy the idea that those who are killed living with our hanging out with terrorists are completely innocent. To me it would be no different than the Boston Bombers. Their roommates didn't commit the bombing but tried to hide evidence to protect him. Now if we knew about the Boston bombing and we decided to send a Predator in to his dorm killing him and his roommates are you killing innocents? Obviously they were privy to his ideology and radicalism and still tried to protect him.

The so-called innocents killed living with terrorists or at a wedding where terrorists are at are not innocent in my opinion. They are, in my opinion, the real underlying problem in Islam which is the quiet approver (those who don't attack openly but don't condemn attacks openly either) to the tune of hundreds of millions of people.

Ethereal
01-21-2015, 01:43 PM
I suppose you've never heard of our gargantuan foreign aid program?

You article wasn't about foreign aid, it was about private charity. And foreign aid is a giant waste of money that usually ends up rich people's pockets.

Matty
01-21-2015, 01:46 PM
You article wasn't about foreign aid, it was about private charity. And foreign aid is a giant waste of money that usually ends up rich people's pockets.

Well but, when you combine private and charitable donations with foreign aid that makes US doubly really really generous!

Alyosha
01-21-2015, 01:48 PM
Yes they do. But I don't buy the idea that those who are killed living with our hanging out with terrorists are completely innocent.

I don't buy the idea that the 112 people around the hovel they're hiding in know they're there. They wouldn't be good terrorists if they told everyone who they were and where they are.

Green Arrow
01-21-2015, 01:48 PM
Well but, when you combine private and charitable donations with foreign aid that makes US doubly really really generous!

Am I generous if I buy guns and ammo for a murderer that shoots up schools?

Ethereal
01-21-2015, 01:49 PM
Well but, when you combine private and charitable donations with foreign aid that makes US doubly really really generous!

Stealing money from middle class Americans and sending it to a military regime in Egypt is not generosity.

Private Pickle
01-21-2015, 01:53 PM
I don't buy the idea that the 112 people around the hovel they're hiding in know they're there. They wouldn't be good terrorists if they told everyone who they were and where they are.

Actually the opposite is true, IMHO. I think the terrorists are very open and vocal about their existence. It creates a fear-based power vacuum which makes it incredibly easy for them to operate.

Of course I'm not implying that innocents don't get killed. There is always the philosophical question however; how many lives were saved?

PolWatch
01-21-2015, 02:01 PM
Is that sarcasm? What are you, some kind of not a patriot?

:grin:

I must not be....but I suspect I was popular for a while....after writing letters to everyone I could think of against the PA when it was first proposed. Makes me feel important to think I might actually be on a watch list! I haven't felt this special since protesting Viet Nam!

Green Arrow
01-21-2015, 02:04 PM
Actually the opposite is true, IMHO. I think the terrorists are very open and vocal about their existence. It creates a fear-based power vacuum which makes it incredibly easy for them to operate.

Of course I'm not implying that innocents don't get killed. There is always the philosophical question however; how many lives were saved?

What you're essentially saying, then, is that if someone holds a gun to some innocent person's head and forces them to do their bidding, it's acceptable to kill the innocent person to get to the bad guy.

Private Pickle
01-21-2015, 02:07 PM
What you're essentially saying, then, is that if someone holds a gun to some innocent person's head and forces them to do their bidding, it's acceptable to kill the innocent person to get to the bad guy.

I don't remember saying that but if that someone was a known terrorist then yes. I would most likely pull the trigger. Here is a hypothetical. Say you have intel on where the next beheading of a foreign hostage will take place but the timeframe only allows for a drone strike. Do you carry it out? For me it's a no brainer.

Green Arrow
01-21-2015, 02:10 PM
I don't remember saying that but if that someone was a known terrorist then yes. I would most likely pull the trigger. Here is a hypothetical. Say you have intel on where the next beheading of a foreign hostage will take place but the timeframe only allows for a drone strike. Do you carry it out? For me it's a no brainer.

No, I don't.

Private Pickle
01-21-2015, 02:14 PM
No, I don't.

So you would condemn the man to a beheading as well as allow the people that committed the crime to carry on with their practice? We have a fundamental disagreement but I can understand your point. I just don't think it is a practical way to wage war.

Green Arrow
01-21-2015, 02:18 PM
So you would condemn the man to a beheading as well as allow the people that committed the crime to carry on with their practice? We have a fundamental disagreement but I can understand your point. I just don't think it is a practical way to wage war.

Your premise is flawed, because it presupposes that a drone strike is the only way to take the guy out. It's not.

I mean, seriously, either way the hostage dies. You'd drone a terrorist because he was going to kill a hostage, and the hostage dies in the drone strike anyway.

I don't think killing 50+ innocent people just to punish a single terrorist for attempting to kill a single hostage is an acceptable sacrifice.

Private Pickle
01-21-2015, 05:18 PM
Your premise is flawed, because it presupposes that a drone strike is the only way to take the guy out. It's not.

I mean, seriously, either way the hostage dies. You'd drone a terrorist because he was going to kill a hostage, and the hostage dies in the drone strike anyway.

I don't think killing 50+ innocent people just to punish a single terrorist for attempting to kill a single hostage is an acceptable sacrifice.

I gave you the hypothetical. Either answer it the way it was asked or just concede that you would do the same as any sane, rational person.

Green Arrow
01-21-2015, 05:20 PM
I gave you the hypothetical. Either answer it the way it was asked or just concede that you would do the same as any sane, rational person.

Your hypothetical was stupid. So I answered the hypothetical and said that I would not launch the strike, then pointed out just why your hypothetical was so stupid. You're the one refusing to acknowledge that your precious hostage dies either way.

Howey
01-21-2015, 06:26 PM
I don't buy the idea that the 112 people around the hovel they're hiding in know they're there. They wouldn't be good terrorists if they told everyone who they were and where they are.


I don't know about that....it's a tactic used for decades. What are they supposed to think when a few terrorists show up at the local school and won't let the children and adults leave? Do they think they're there for tea and crackers?

No. They know they're hiding out there. The people need to get the nerve to throw the terrorists out.

protectionist
01-22-2015, 01:11 AM
I wish someone could explain to me why the progressive left, defends terrorists to a fault.
Why do they jump in relentlessly no matter how many americans they murder, or how much murder and mayhem they commit around the world.

There is no defense of these murdering scum, whos numbers GROW not diminish. The progressive left keeps trying to tell us its only a few. BS!!!!!!!! the mentality is in millions of them via thier religious beliefs.

Its time for the world to tell the progressive left to F -off when it comes to muslim and terrorists and for the world to kick their ass and get it over.

Personally I am sick and tired of our troops dieing and getting mangled by the scumbags and having to watch weekly videos of some pos in black telling us hes going to cut someone elses head off in an attempt to intimidate the world. Lets cut his fricken head off instead.

They don't want to offend Muslims. Just as it is with any minority group, leftists see Muslims as VOTES, and as such, are blinded to most everything else. The situation is improving though. Some Democrats in the congress have been ragging at Obama for not referring to Muslims in the terrorism issue, not using words like jihad, Islamist, etc, and walking too slow on the fight against ISIS.

protectionist
01-22-2015, 01:18 AM
WWII is probably the third best example (behind WWI and the "civil" war) of a needless and incredibly destructive war that caused far more problems than it solved.

But even if WWII was a justified war, that fact, in and of itself, does not justify every American war thereafter. Introducing Nazism into a discussion about Islamic rebels and militants is a non-sequitur.

You are the one who brought up the collateral damage issue, not me. I just let you know that war isn't a violin piece, that you play perfectly without any drawbacks.

protectionist
01-22-2015, 01:27 AM
There's a strong argument to be made there. For example, nobody in America died from a terrorist attack last month (correct me if I'm wrong), but surely "many" Americans died from something related to the war on drugs and its unintended consequences. For example, drug prohibition creates black market drug cartels, which result in many thousands of deaths each year. Then you have the millions of non-violent drug offenders rotting away in prison or jail or some kind of legal limbo. This is probably the biggest opportunity cost that is imposed on America right now, are the millions upon millions of non-productive prisoners and probates who are relegated to poverty (and all the negative side effects that come with it) by drug prohibition. And housing those prisoners, and paying the army of cops, guards, lawyers, and judges who put them there, is not cheap. Another massive opportunity cost that takes away vital resources and throws them down a black hole.

Interesting, and some valid points, but OFF TOPIC.

protectionist
01-22-2015, 01:31 AM
But drones cause the deaths of innocent people, which creates more terrorists and inflames anti-American sentiment all across the world, so it IS endangering American lives.

Imagine if Eisenhower told his artillery units that their shells cause the deaths of innocent people, which inflames anti-American sentiment all across the Germany, so it IS endangering American lives. OK men, pull back. We're not going to fight here any more. we don't want the Germans to dislike us. Maybe Eisenhower could have sent some singers in instead. To get the Germans to like us.

Ever hear of a thing called WAR ?

protectionist
01-22-2015, 01:36 AM
What you're essentially saying, then, is that if someone holds a gun to some innocent person's head and forces them to do their bidding, it's acceptable to kill the innocent person to get to the bad guy.

In World War II, England and the US carpet bombed the heel out of German cities. Wanna go back in time, not do that, and see how things turn out ?

protectionist
01-22-2015, 01:42 AM
Your premise is flawed, because it presupposes that a drone strike is the only way to take the guy out. It's not.

I mean, seriously, either way the hostage dies. You'd drone a terrorist because he was going to kill a hostage, and the hostage dies in the drone strike anyway.

I don't think killing 50+ innocent people just to punish a single terrorist for attempting to kill a single hostage is an acceptable sacrifice.

Depends on WHO the "single terrorist" is. He may be a single terrorist, but not killing him, could mean the deaths of thousands of innocent people. Generally, those are the terrorists who are the targets of drone strikes. (Ex. al Awlaki) War is a dirty thing. What did you think this was ? A tennis game ?

protectionist
01-22-2015, 01:47 AM
Contractors, big oil, and bankers got to get paid. And if the public is losing interest and support in these wars, we need to prop up or exaggerate a threat.

FBI says plot to attack U.S. Capitol was ready to go

Authorities say Cornell, who ostensibly tweeted under the name Raheel Mahrus Ubaydah, hatched a simple scheme. It was similar to the Paris attack on the offices of Charlie Hebdo, but at a key location -- the U.S. Capitol, said a criminal complaint filed by an FBI agent.

The plan: Set off pipe bombs to put lawmakers and employees in panicked flight and then gun them down with an assault rifle as they ran across his path and that of an accomplice, Special Agent T.A. Staderman wrote.
Cornell was ready to go, the agent said.


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/150114213655-christopher-lee-cornell-large-169.jpg

Christopher Lee Cornell's mugshot from the Butler County Jail in Ohio.

He had made preparations with a partner. He had researched bomb-making instructions and by Wednesday, Cornell had bought two M-15 rifles with 600 rounds of ammunition.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/15/us/capitol-attack-plot/


*************************************************


The Beheading in Oklahoma and Islam's Assault on North America

Muslim nutjob Alton Nolen, beheads a woman at a workplace in Moore, Oklahoma. (September 2014). Moore Police spokesman Jeremy Lewis said the 30-year-old suspect "recently started trying to convert some of his co-workers to the Muslim faith." The FBI are involved.

http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/09/ok...workers-islam/ (http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/09/oklahoma-muslim-beheads-female-co-worker-food-processing-plant-starts-behead-another-shot-tried-convert-co-workers-islam/)

http://www.rightsidenews.com/2014101...h-america.html (http://www.rightsidenews.com/2014101934993/life-and-science/culture-wars/the-beheading-in-oklahoma-and-islam-s-assault-on-north-america.html)#!

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSQwr14LdQJVEKf9qZ4wvwuqzIBPoMIR hgsURWcxFq5-ocgJLGG

************************************************** **************


https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ-Vw6dmUQfpzYFXQ3uMYL_W7GMAx8ovqR0PkmQQKb0-sY0WD-Ymg








Hatchet-wielding Muslim radical who attacked rookie New York cops, 'spent months visiting jihadist websites, and stalked officers for hours.

protectionist
01-22-2015, 01:50 AM
...or people just love to be scared. It makes for exciting news and sells toothpaste and toilet paper.

This Summer's Jihad Attacks in New Jersey and Seattle Revealed in Court

Ali Muhammad Brown kills 3 in Seattle, WA, and one more in New Jersey.

http://media.nj.com/storypackage/15303872/image.jpg




Victims' families: Brendan Tevlin's murder like going through 9/11 all over again (VIDEO) (http://www.nj.com/essex/index.ssf/2014/09/victims_families_livingston_teens_murder_like_goin g_through_911_all_over_again_video.html#incart_sto ry_package)
Brendan Tevlin's murder evidence that 'domestic terrorism is already here,' says radio host (AUDIO) (http://www.nj.com/essex/index.ssf/2014/09/radio_host_livingston_teens_murder_evidence_that_d omestic_terrorism_is_already_here.html#incart_stor y_package)
National security expert on N.J. teen's alleged killer: He could be charged as a terrorist (http://www.nj.com/essex/index.ssf/2014/08/national_security_on_livingston_teens_alleged_kill er_hes_a_terrorist.html#incart_story_package)
Accused killer says Livingston teen's murder was 'vengeance' against U.S. (http://www.nj.com/essex/index.ssf/2014/08/accused_serial_killer_says_livingston_teens_murder _was_vengeance_against_us.html#incart_story_packag e)
Livingston teen's alleged killer charged with fourth murder in Washington (http://www.nj.com/essex/index.ssf/2014/08/livingston_teens_alleged_killer_charged_with_fourt h_murder_in_washington.html#incart_story_package)


http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog.../blog_id/56337 (http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm/blog_id/56337)

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQPOUdx2o4IoSK1iZrVehlQBhO3fuIwl KfPUCd312zxoYimmb0x


**********************************************

Port Bolivar, TX Muslim Commits Koran Murder

A Muslim man shoots his lesbian daughter and her lover to death (3/6/2014), and leaves a copy of the Quran open to a page condemning homosexuality.

https://creepingsharia.wordpress.com...homosexuality/ (https://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2014/03/16/texas-muslim-killed-daughter-her-lesbian-lover-left-koran-open-to-verse-condemning-homosexuality/)


************************************************** *******************

TORONTO – A slickly produced video released on Sunday Dec. 6, 2014, urged Muslims to launch indiscriminate attacks against Canadians, similar to those carried out in October in Ottawa and Montreal.

http://i0.wp.com/media.globalnews.ca/videostatic/149/446/GN071214Kapelos_848x480_368462403549.jpg?w=670

http://globalnews.ca/news/1713363/pu...-on-canadians/ (http://globalnews.ca/news/1713363/purported-islamic-state-video-calls-for-attacks-on-canadians/)

protectionist
01-22-2015, 01:53 AM
There isn't an election pending so we don't need to talk about Ebola....gotta have something to keep people too scared to look behind the curtains! They're coming for us! Get the duct tape ready!

Apr 15, 2013: Three people killed, hundreds injured in Boston Marathon bombing

In addition, a University police officer was shot and killed while sitting in his car by the same Muslim jihad dirtbags who set off the bomb at the marathon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Marathon_bombings

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRImmMlBbXVrwP5WA3pLSxkhRpsGgPiL G3K82YLRYxJak6bLzHL



************************************************** ********************

In Ashtabula, OH, A Muslim convert walks into a church service with a Quran and guns down his Christian father while praising Allah (3/24/2013)

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSo3t3cKxvos_NQWxcMo2wE9QADn85bP VS1C1Aq2Fobrqonvk_2

http://www.barenakedislam.com/2013/0...easter-sunday/ (http://www.barenakedislam.com/2013/04/01/ohio-jihad-this-is-the-will-of-allah-shouts-muslim-who-shot-his-father-dead-in-church-on-easter-sunday/)

************************************************** ********************

In Buena Vista, NJ A Muslim targets and beheads two Christian Coptic immigrants. (2/7/2013)

http://www.wnd.com/2013/02/muslim-ac...stians-in-u-s/ (http://www.wnd.com/2013/02/muslim-accused-of-beheading-2-christians-in-u-s/)


************************************************** ***********

Muslim jihadist Nidal Hasan sentenced to death for Fort Hood shooting rampage

Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan was sentenced to death Wednesday for killing 13 people and wounding 32 others in a 2009 shooting rampage at Fort Hood, Tex., the worst mass murder at a military installation in U.S. history.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTPkmnBgAtCl5f57M0BVYn97_WmquzrJ ZN9bF7LnMTanUIkC0hU6w (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAcQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fworl dnews%2Fmiddleeast%2Fyemen%2F8801357%2FHow-America-finally-caught-up-with-Anwar-al-Awlaki.html&ei=PJ64VKDlAomUNurCgJAL&bvm=bv.83829542,d.eXY&psig=AFQjCNHMezrIRQYnNGW_O28_ApWObklKOw&ust=1421471492697120)

The mentor in Yemen


https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQnPPSgIOZ1HvR_fctWA3Eifj-ujkic4VylQ9OFGRT4Qj7ksxOjQQ The killer


************************************************** ****************

http://www.heritage.org/~/media/images/reports/2013/07/sr137/bg-terror-plots-july-2013-chart-2.ashx

http://www.heritage.org/research/rep...unterterrorism (http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/07/60-terrorist-plots-since-911-continued-lessons-in-domestic-counterterrorism)

protectionist
01-22-2015, 01:55 AM
Internal US terrorist plots since 9/11 (this is an incomplete list > It omits the July 2002 LAX shooting attack and the 2002 Beltway Sniper shooting which killed 19 people)


1. Richard Reid (the Shoe Bomber)—December 2001

2. Jose Padilla—May 2002

3. Lackawanna Six—September 2002

4. Uzair and Saifullah Paracha—March 2003

5. Iyman Faris—May 2003

For the other 55 attacks, plus details on each of them, please follow this link (http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/07/60-terrorist-plots-since-911-continued-lessons-in-domestic-counterterrorism).

protectionist
01-22-2015, 01:58 AM
http://www.heritage.org/~/media/images/reports/2013/07/sr137/bgterrorplotsjuly2013map1825.ashx

Ethereal
01-22-2015, 02:15 AM
Interesting, and some valid points, but OFF TOPIC.

The topic is prioritizing terrorism, right? And you think it should be the highest priority, right? But why should it be the highest priority when way more Americans die from things like car accidents, heart disease, or drug prohibition? That's not "off topic", that is a challenge to your prioritization of terrorism above other issues.

Ethereal
01-22-2015, 02:17 AM
Imagine if Eisenhower told his artillery units that their shells cause the deaths of innocent people, which inflames anti-American sentiment all across the Germany, so it IS endangering American lives. OK men, pull back. We're not going to fight here any more. we don't want the Germans to dislike us. Maybe Eisenhower could have sent some singers in instead. To get the Germans to like us.

Ever hear of a thing called WAR ?

I've been in a war, so, yes, I've heard of it. That's why I know the difference between Nazis and AQ.

Ethereal
01-22-2015, 02:29 AM
FBI says plot to attack U.S. Capitol was ready to go

Authorities say Cornell, who ostensibly tweeted under the name Raheel Mahrus Ubaydah, hatched a simple scheme. It was similar to the Paris attack on the offices of Charlie Hebdo, but at a key location -- the U.S. Capitol, said a criminal complaint filed by an FBI agent.

The plan: Set off pipe bombs to put lawmakers and employees in panicked flight and then gun them down with an assault rifle as they ran across his path and that of an accomplice, Special Agent T.A. Staderman wrote.
Cornell was ready to go, the agent said.


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/150114213655-christopher-lee-cornell-large-169.jpg

Christopher Lee Cornell's mugshot from the Butler County Jail in Ohio.

He had made preparations with a partner. He had researched bomb-making instructions and by Wednesday, Cornell had bought two M-15 rifles with 600 rounds of ammunition.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/15/us/capitol-attack-plot/


*************************************************


The Beheading in Oklahoma and Islam's Assault on North America

Muslim nutjob Alton Nolen, beheads a woman at a workplace in Moore, Oklahoma. (September 2014). Moore Police spokesman Jeremy Lewis said the 30-year-old suspect "recently started trying to convert some of his co-workers to the Muslim faith." The FBI are involved.

http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/09/ok...workers-islam/ (http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/09/oklahoma-muslim-beheads-female-co-worker-food-processing-plant-starts-behead-another-shot-tried-convert-co-workers-islam/)

http://www.rightsidenews.com/2014101...h-america.html (http://www.rightsidenews.com/2014101934993/life-and-science/culture-wars/the-beheading-in-oklahoma-and-islam-s-assault-on-north-america.html)#!

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSQwr14LdQJVEKf9qZ4wvwuqzIBPoMIR hgsURWcxFq5-ocgJLGG

************************************************** **************


https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ-Vw6dmUQfpzYFXQ3uMYL_W7GMAx8ovqR0PkmQQKb0-sY0WD-Ymg








Hatchet-wielding Muslim radical who attacked rookie New York cops, 'spent months visiting jihadist websites, and stalked officers for hours.




Americans should be much more skeptical of the US government's claims that it has been instrumental in thwarting domestic terrorist attacks. The FBI is notorious for exaggerating and outright manufacturing terrorist threats.


LATEST FBI CLAIM OF DISRUPTED TERROR PLOT DESERVES MUCH SCRUTINY AND SKEPTICISM (https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/01/16/latest-fbi-boast-disrupting-terror-u-s-plot-deserves-scrutiny-skepticism/)

(THE INTERCEPT) - The federal judge presiding over his case, Colleen McMahon, repeatedly lambasted the government for wholly manufacturing the plot. When sentencing him to decades in prison, she said Cromitie “was incapable of committing an act of terrorism on his own,” and that it was the FBI which “created acts of terrorism out of his fantasies of bravado and bigotry, and then made those fantasies come true.” She added: “only the government could have made a terrorist out of Mr. Cromitie, whose buffoonery is positively Shakespearean in scope.”

In her written ruling upholding the conviction, Judge McMahon noted that Cromitie “had successfully resisted going too far for eight months,” and agreed only after “the Government dangled what had to be almost irresistible temptation in front of an impoverished man from what I have come (after literally dozens of cases) to view as the saddest and most dysfunctional community in the Southern District of New York.” It was the FBI’s own informant, she wrote, who “was the prime mover and instigator of all the criminal activity that occurred.” She then wrote (emphasis added):



As it turns out, the Government did absolutely everything that the defense predicted in its previous motion to dismiss the indictment. The Government indisputably “manufactured” the crimes of which defendants stand convicted. The Government invented all of the details of the scheme - many of them, such as the trip to Connecticut and the inclusion of Stewart AFB as a target, for specific legal purposes of which the defendants could not possibly have been aware (the former gave rise to federal jurisdiction and the latter mandated a twenty-five year minimum sentence). The Government selected the targets. The Government designed and built the phony ordnance that the defendants planted (or planned to plant) at Government-selected targets. The Government provided every item used in the plot: cameras, cell phones, cars, maps and even a gun. The Government did all the driving (as none of the defendants had a car or a driver’s license). The Government funded the entire project. And the Government, through its agent, offered the defendants large sums of money, contingent on their participation in the heinous scheme.

Additionally, before deciding that the defendants (particularly Cromitie, who was in their sights for nine months) presented any real danger, the Government appears to have done minimal due diligence, relying instead on reports from its Confidential Informant, who passed on information about Cromitie information that could easily have been verified (or not verified, since much of it was untrue), but that no one thought it necessary to check before offering a jihadist opportunity to a man who had no contact with any extremist groups and no history of anything other than drug crimes.

protectionist
01-22-2015, 04:58 AM
Americans should be much more skeptical of the US government's claims that it has been instrumental in thwarting domestic terrorist attacks. The FBI is notorious for exaggerating and outright manufacturing terrorist threats.

"Notorious" ? HA HA HA!! Notorious for whom ? Media Matters ? The Intercept ? CAIR ? HA HA.

EARTH TO ETHEREAL: If you have some evidence to back that INTERCEPT mush up, let's hear it (IN YOUR WORDS).. Just dropping a link to a book-length article that nobody wants to rummage through (and you know it), doesn't fly. What's the matter ? Cat got your tongue/keyboard ?

And even if the FBI WAS doing this stuff you claim, http://thepoliticsforums.com/images/smilies/newsmilies/rolleyes21.gif that doesn't change the terrorist "plots" that succeeded, and where people died. Looks like Intercept could have spent their time on something more useful. Like knitting a sweater.

PS - you responded to a post with 2 completed terrorist attacks (hatchet attacker & Alton Nolen), with some glunk about possibly, MAYBE, terrorist attacks being thwarted. Guess what. I just posted 10 terrorist attacks that HAPPENED. And a list of 60 since 2001. Get it ?

protectionist
01-22-2015, 05:05 AM
The topic is prioritizing terrorism, right? And you think it should be the highest priority, right? But why should it be the highest priority when way more Americans die from things like car accidents, heart disease, or drug prohibition? That's not "off topic", that is a challenge to your prioritization of terrorism above other issues.

1. One reason is drugs, heart disease, and in many case car accidents are self-inflicted. Terrorism isn't.

2. A single terrorist attack (nuclear) could killed MILIONS of people. No single car accident or heart attack does that.

protectionist
01-22-2015, 05:10 AM
I've been in a war, so, yes, I've heard of it. That's why I know the difference between Nazis and AQ.

Apparently you don't, because there's NOT a lot of difference. In fact they have many similarities. Both have a world conquest goal. Both hate Jews. Both are mass genocidal murderers. Both engage in torture/mutilation. Both hate us and our allies. And in World War II, Muslims were allied with the Nazis and even fought with them. Ever hear of the Waffen SS ?

The main difference is that, because of the nuclear threat (which the Nazis didn't possess), the jihadists are more dangerous than the Nazis were.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/38/Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1974-059-40%2C_Amin_al_Husseini_bei_bosnischen_SS-Freiwilligen.jpg/220px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1974-059-40%2C_Amin_al_Husseini_bei_bosnischen_SS-Freiwilligen.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1974-059-40,_Amin_al_Husseini_bei_bosnischen_SS-Freiwilligen.jpg)Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haj_Amin_al-Husseini) inspects Bosnian Waffen SS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Waffen_Mountain_Division_of_the_SS_Handschar_ (1st_Croatian)) recruits, November 1943

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQS-2PuWEhGrxiXqsZ7VUrrI6DBBBkdDX-zMDqzGem-HwlO6aKv7w https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTfggALZ2W6MY3JF_8vj3H9uX_OTQAUo 3RxRWsCvc1AFhAMOb62sw

Peter1469
01-22-2015, 06:50 AM
A large number of the foiled plots were from lone wolves who attempted to contact a real terrorist for assistance. They end up contacting an FBI (or other agency) informant.


"Notorious" ? HA HA HA!! Notorious for whom ? Media Matters ? The Intercept ? CAIR ? HA HA.

EARTH TO ETHEREAL: If you have some evidence to back that INTERCEPT mush up, let's hear it (IN YOUR WORDS).. Just dropping a link to a book-length article that nobody wants to rummage through (and you know it), doesn't fly. What's the matter ? Cat got your tongue/keyboard ?

And even if the FBI WAS doing this stuff you claim, http://thepoliticsforums.com/images/smilies/newsmilies/rolleyes21.gif that doesn't change the terrorist "plots" that succeeded, and where people died. Looks like Intercept could have spent their time on something more useful. Like knitting a sweater.

PS - you responded to a post with 2 completed terrorist attacks (hatchet attacker & Alton Nolen), with some glunk about possibly, MAYBE, terrorist attacks being thwarted. Guess what. I just posted 10 terrorist attacks that HAPPENED. And a list of 60 since 2001. Get it ?

Peter1469
01-22-2015, 06:51 AM
The Islamists are hardly the threat that the Nazi's were. It is hysterics to claim that they are.


Apparently you don't, because there's NOT a lot of difference. In fact they have many similarities. Both have a world conquest goal. Both hate Jews. Both are mass genocidal murderers. Both engage in torture/mutilation. Both hate us and our allies. And in World War II, Muslims were allied with the Nazis and even fought with them. Ever hear of the Waffen SS ?

The main difference is that, because of the nuclear threat (which the Nazis didn't possess), the jihadists are more dangerous than the Nazis were.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/38/Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1974-059-40%2C_Amin_al_Husseini_bei_bosnischen_SS-Freiwilligen.jpg/220px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1974-059-40%2C_Amin_al_Husseini_bei_bosnischen_SS-Freiwilligen.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1974-059-40,_Amin_al_Husseini_bei_bosnischen_SS-Freiwilligen.jpg)Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haj_Amin_al-Husseini) inspects Bosnian Waffen SS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Waffen_Mountain_Division_of_the_SS_Handschar_ (1st_Croatian)) recruits, November 1943

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQS-2PuWEhGrxiXqsZ7VUrrI6DBBBkdDX-zMDqzGem-HwlO6aKv7w https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTfggALZ2W6MY3JF_8vj3H9uX_OTQAUo 3RxRWsCvc1AFhAMOb62sw

Common
01-22-2015, 07:47 AM
My government creates terrorists. It creates poverty. It creates crime. It divides my people. And it does all of this while stripping me of my freedoms.

So does every other govt and yours is the best in the world. Sometimes I get tired of all the bashing of america and blaming it for everything.

Common
01-22-2015, 07:57 AM
Theres young people on this forum who are going to have seriously unhappy lives having these wild swirling ideas that their govt is in their toilet checking out their crack every morning and the govt is the cause of ALL the problems in their lives.

My generation didnt hate their govt we watched them and was aware the people in it didnt always do the right thing but we also realized that our govt was alot better than any other and I STILL BELIEVE IT.

This blaming the US Govt for all the worlds ills just goes to far and its starting to turn me the other way.

None of you have done a damn thing I didnt do before you were born and that includes seeing the same things you have and having to do the same so thats not a viable excuse with me.

If you look you can find things to be proud of about your country but some of you just wont look you just want to grasp on anything bad
Being patrotiotic is a GOOD thing not a bad thing and I love my country.

I mostly try to avoid bashing the country threads but its getting harder to do to many threads about anything lead to something about the USA this the USA is the cause of that.

You can get pissed at my point of view but thats ok, that wont change my point of view.

donttread
01-22-2015, 08:42 AM
Why ? Are you one of the terrorists ? Just wondering.... from how you phrased that.

Actually, my govt is my number one concern too. Because of being too soft toward Islam and the terrorists. But we are always going to have a few oddballs (some of the 24% right here in the forum) :icon_biggrin:

You really don't get the real threat or even how terrorist "win" do you? Do you think ISIS is going to invade America for Christ sake?

donttread
01-22-2015, 08:44 AM
So does every other govt and yours is the best in the world. Sometimes I get tired of all the bashing of america and blaming it for everything.

That's your justification? But, mom and dad Booby and Billy also wanted to steal the car!

PolWatch
01-22-2015, 09:25 AM
protectionist

Please provide links & observe forum rules when quoting sources

8. You must provide a link when quoting an article and follow fair use guidelines (you are permitted to copy and paste two to three paragraphs).

Common
01-22-2015, 09:30 AM
That's your justification? But, mom and dad Booby and Billy also wanted to steal the car!

make sense

protectionist
01-22-2015, 09:37 AM
The Islamists are hardly the threat that the Nazi's were. It is hysterics to claim that they are.

As I've said a number of times in this thread, the jihadists of course, are a WORSE threat than the Nazis, and I've said it too many times now to have to again state why. Everyone should know by now, and you all ought to know the obvious, anyway, without me telling you. Sheeesh!! :deadhorse:

Peter1469
01-22-2015, 09:38 AM
As I've said a number of times in this thread, the jihadists of course, are a WORSE threat than the Nazis, and I've said it too many times now to have to again state why. Everyone should know by now, and you all ought to know the obvious, anyway, without me telling you. Sheeesh!! :deadhorse:

You are hysterical (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hysterical).

protectionist
01-22-2015, 09:39 AM
@protectionist (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1054)

Please provide links & observe forum rules when quoting sources

8. You must provide a link when quoting an article and follow fair use guidelines (you are permitted to copy and paste two to three paragraphs).

I've provided MANY links in this thread. What are you referring to ?

Peter1469
01-22-2015, 09:42 AM
Post #78 for one. Post a link for the long list and delete all but a few of them. I can delete them for you when I get back later, but I don't have a link.

protectionist
01-22-2015, 09:42 AM
Theres young people on this forum who are going to have seriously unhappy lives having these wild swirling ideas that their govt is in their toilet checking out their crack every morning and the govt is the cause of ALL the problems in their lives.

My generation didnt hate their govt we watched them and was aware the people in it didnt always do the right thing but we also realized that our govt was alot better than any other and I STILL BELIEVE IT.

This blaming the US Govt for all the worlds ills just goes to far and its starting to turn me the other way.

None of you have done a $#@! thing I didnt do before you were born and that includes seeing the same things you have and having to do the same so thats not a viable excuse with me.

If you look you can find things to be proud of about your country but some of you just wont look you just want to grasp on anything bad
Being patrotiotic is a GOOD thing not a bad thing and I love my country.

I mostly try to avoid bashing the country threads but its getting harder to do to many threads about anything lead to something about the USA this the USA is the cause of that.

You can get pissed at my point of view but thats ok, that wont change my point of view.

I get the feeling that these America-bashers are coming at it from 2 angles. One, they do it as a way of entertaining themselves. Two, they are programmed to it, and are faithful robots.

protectionist
01-22-2015, 09:45 AM
Post #78 for one. Post a link for the long list and delete all but a few of them. I can delete them for you when I get back later, but I don't have a link.


Why should anything on that least be deleted ? What are you talking about ? And certainly I can provide a link, but since you're asking a day or so after posting, I now have to try to remember back to where it come from. I'll get it.

BTW, what's the big deal about the link ? Is somebody thinking these items aren't true ?

PolWatch
01-22-2015, 09:47 AM
Why should anything on that least be deleted ? What are you talking about ?

please read the forum rules on posting information from other sources. 3 to 4 paragraphs...not 3 to 4 pages

protectionist
01-22-2015, 09:49 AM
please read the forum rules on posting information from other sources. 3 to 4 paragraphs...not 3 to 4 pages

So you don't want to answer my question ?

And Post # 78 isn't "paragraghs" It is a list.

Mac-7
01-22-2015, 09:50 AM
Post #78 for one. Post a link for the long list and delete all but a few of them. I can delete them for you when I get back later, but I don't have a link.

Why can't Protectionist be his own expert source?

If he says those events happened based on his own memory why is that not enough?

As for the number of paragraphs, take the empty lines out and you have only one paragraph which is within the rules.

Common
01-22-2015, 09:52 AM
Why can't Protectionist be his own expert source?

If he says those events happened based on his own memory why is that not enough?

As for the number of paragraphs, take the empty lines out and you have only one paragraphs which is within the rules.

Because that would be personal opinion and personal opinions are just like rectums everyone has one

protectionist
01-22-2015, 09:54 AM
Post #78 for one. Post a link for the long list and delete all but a few of them. I can delete them for you when I get back later, but I don't have a link.

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/07/60-terrorist-plots-since-911-continued-lessons-in-domestic-counterterrorism

Again. I'm just wondering. Is somebody thinking these items aren't true ? Try clicking the link, and do some reading. There's lots more there than just the list.

Mac-7
01-22-2015, 09:57 AM
Because that would be personal opinion and personal opinions are just like rectums everyone has one

Not at all.

That a shoe bomber attempted to blow up an airplane in flight is not his personal opinion.

Its a fact.

protectionist
01-22-2015, 09:59 AM
Not at all.

That a shoe bomber attempting to blow up a airplane in flight is not his personal opinion.

Its a fact.

As is the entire US terrorism list, and the background information with it.

http://www.heritage.org/research/rep...unterterrorism (http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/07/60-terrorist-plots-since-911-continued-lessons-in-domestic-counterterrorism)

Mac-7
01-22-2015, 10:00 AM
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/07/60-terrorist-plots-since-911-continued-lessons-in-domestic-counterterrorism

Again. I'm just wondering. Is somebody thinking these items aren't true ? Try clicking the link, and do some reading. There's lots more there than just the list.

They know they are true.

But they don't like it when you remind them of it.

protectionist
01-22-2015, 10:08 AM
They know they are true.

But they don't like it when you remind them of it.

Like the Rolling Stones still say >> You can't always get what you want.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRrT1RPzloscsUXvJxw1bEHERXd8pO7z agBDeJYoCfFRomRpPUV

Private Pickle
01-22-2015, 10:38 AM
Your hypothetical was stupid. So I answered the hypothetical and said that I would not launch the strike, then pointed out just why your hypothetical was so stupid. You're the one refusing to acknowledge that your precious hostage dies either way.

Yes the hostage dies either way. I acknowledged that. You didn't point out why the hypothetical was stupid...you just said that there would be other options despite that not being the hypothetical. So yes, I pull the trigger...

You? You just sit there and watch.

southwest88
01-22-2015, 11:55 AM
Apparently you don't, because there's NOT a lot of difference. In fact they have many similarities. Both have a world conquest goal. Both hate Jews. Both are mass genocidal murderers. Both engage in torture/mutilation. Both hate us and our allies. And in World War II, Muslims were allied with the Nazis and even fought with them. Ever hear of the Waffen SS ?

The main difference is that, because of the nuclear threat (which the Nazis didn't possess), the jihadists are more dangerous than the Nazis were.
...


Yah, the Nazis tried to kill all the Jews they could ID. That was an attempt @ genocide, certainly.

Radical Islam? They talk a good fight, but realistically, they can't even fight off the state of Israel, let alone target every Jew in the World. If they can't manage a small minority of the World's population, they're going to do even worse against Christianity - another of their stated goals.

On nukes - yah, radical Islamists would like to have nuclear weapons. Pakistan has had nukes since May of 1998 - & their government is notoriously unstable. So why haven't Pakistani nukes wound up in radical Islamist arsenals? Nuclear weapons have signatures - you can track U down to a specific area. Even Pakistani ISI & military - the power behind the curtains there - must figure that the US, NATO, the separate nuclear powers in the West, India, Israel - would rain destruction down on Pakistan if any of their nuclear weapons got into terrorist hands, & especially if such weapons were used.

The Islamic radicals may be more dangerous - they certainly seem blood-obsessed, even compared to the Nazis. But the Nazis had a real state, a regular military, an economy, the technological & academic resources to produce their own war materiel. Pakistan has done remarkable work in physics & U enrichment - but they also relied upon massive outside funding - we (& Saudi Arabia & other countries) subsidized the Afghan mujahedeen war against the USSR in Afghanistan, & now recently our operations & then invasion of Afghanistan. Pakistan in both cases skimmed money, supplies off the flows to the mujahedeen - we even allowed Pakistan to distribute the money - foolish, my opinion.

Paki ISI tried to pick & choose winners - which meant military groups that would cooperate with the Pakistan line - & especially to allowing Paki forces to use Afghan for defense in depth (the Paki military & ISI are forever preparing to lose the next war with India. There used to be an E. Pakistan - see Bangladesh).

So, unless Pakistan decides to stage an end-of-the-World attack on India, I don't see any real danger of radical Islam getting nuclear weapons.

Green Arrow
01-22-2015, 11:56 AM
Yes the hostage dies either way. I acknowledged that. You didn't point out why the hypothetical was stupid...you just said that there would be other options despite that not being the hypothetical. So yes, I pull the trigger...

You? You just sit there and watch.

I did point out why the hypothetical was stupid. It was stupid because the premise of it was about saving the hostage, but no matter which option you choose the hostage is dead.

So you'd kill the hostage, plus 50 or more innocent people, to take down that terrorist. Or, you could do it my way, monitor the guy's position, and send special forces after him. The terrorist still dies, so does the hostage, but 50+ innocents don't have to die with them.

Green Arrow
01-22-2015, 12:08 PM
Theres young people on this forum who are going to have seriously unhappy lives having these wild swirling ideas that their govt is in their toilet checking out their crack every morning and the govt is the cause of ALL the problems in their lives.

My generation didnt hate their govt we watched them and was aware the people in it didnt always do the right thing but we also realized that our govt was alot better than any other and I STILL BELIEVE IT.

This blaming the US Govt for all the worlds ills just goes to far and its starting to turn me the other way.

None of you have done a damn thing I didnt do before you were born and that includes seeing the same things you have and having to do the same so thats not a viable excuse with me.

If you look you can find things to be proud of about your country but some of you just wont look you just want to grasp on anything bad
Being patrotiotic is a GOOD thing not a bad thing and I love my country.

I mostly try to avoid bashing the country threads but its getting harder to do to many threads about anything lead to something about the USA this the USA is the cause of that.

You can get pissed at my point of view but thats ok, that wont change my point of view.


So does every other govt and yours is the best in the world. Sometimes I get tired of all the bashing of america and blaming it for everything.

Initially I wasn't even going to dignify this with a response, because I detest responding to posts that completely misrepresent my opinions and beliefs, but I decided a response was necessary.

Don't you EVER question my loyalty to my country again. I can criticize the things my government does that I disagree with because this is still a free fucking country and I have a right to try to change the problems I see. I make those criticisms precisely BECAUSE I love my country and hate watching my government corrupt her. It's not bashing my country to criticize my government. For you to say it is and then talk about patriotism? That's false patriotism.

You misfired big time on this one, buddy.

Peter1469
01-22-2015, 01:12 PM
Why should anything on that least be deleted ? What are you talking about ? And certainly I can provide a link, but since you're asking a day or so after posting, I now have to try to remember back to where it come from. I'll get it.

BTW, what's the big deal about the link ? Is somebody thinking these items aren't true ?


It really screws up the posting experience for members who use cell phones or other small screens. Plus the fair use copyright rule is important to us now that we have Google Ads.

Peter1469
01-22-2015, 01:13 PM
So you don't want to answer my question ?

And Post # 78 isn't "paragraghs" It is a list.

Let me know when you have the link handy and I will shorten the list for you.

Peter1469
01-22-2015, 01:20 PM
Internal US terrorist plots since 9/11 (this is an incomplete list > It omits the July 2002 LAX shooting attack and the 2002 Beltway Sniper shooting which killed 19 people)


1. Richard Reid (the Shoe Bomber)—December 2001

2. Jose Padilla—May 2002

3. Lackawanna Six—September 2002

4. Uzair and Saifullah Paracha—March 2003

5. Iyman Faris—May 2003

For the other 55 attacks, plus details on each of them, please follow this link (http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/07/60-terrorist-plots-since-911-continued-lessons-in-domestic-counterterrorism).


Bump.

Here. Less waste of space and more information is provided at the link.

Mac-7
01-22-2015, 01:20 PM
Let me know when you have the link handy and I will shorten the list for you.

Just take out the empty lines.

Private Pickle
01-22-2015, 01:25 PM
I did point out why the hypothetical was stupid. It was stupid because the premise of it was about saving the hostage, but no matter which option you choose the hostage is dead.

So you'd kill the hostage, plus 50 or more innocent people, to take down that terrorist. Or, you could do it my way, monitor the guy's position, and send special forces after him. The terrorist still dies, so does the hostage, but 50+ innocents don't have to die with them.

I have no idea where the 50+ innocents came in. You added that to the hypothetical to diminish my choice and to make yours look like the better option. Not really all that clever but I give you an A for effort.

We can entertain the idea of how "innocent" people who associate themselves with terrorists are... (Here is where you say that you're sure they are innocent).

Green Arrow
01-22-2015, 01:42 PM
I have no idea where the 50+ innocents came in. You added that to the hypothetical to diminish my choice and to make yours look like the better option. Not really all that clever but I give you an A for effort.

We can entertain the idea of how "innocent" people who associate themselves with terrorists are... (Here is where you say that you're sure they are innocent).

It's based on statistics. A study was done that found that drone strikes maim or kill roughly fifty innocents for every one terrorist.

Private Pickle
01-22-2015, 02:17 PM
It's based on statistics. A study was done that found that drone strikes maim or kill roughly fifty innocents for every one terrorist.

I would like to see that study. Sounds interesting. That and I don't believe it...

Peter1469
01-22-2015, 03:36 PM
Just take out the empty lines.

See post 115.

Mac-7
01-22-2015, 04:23 PM
See post 115.

I saw it.

Just another example of why we can't fight city hall.

Peter1469
01-22-2015, 04:45 PM
I saw it.

Just another example of why we can't fight city hall.

Review the rules. If they cause you difficultly ask for a tutor.

We lost Google Ads because of assholes once. Are you trying to make it twice?

PolWatch
01-22-2015, 04:51 PM
everything that happens in the world is not about Mac...honest

Green Arrow
01-22-2015, 04:55 PM
I saw it.

Just another example of why we can't fight city hall.

Did you ever stop to think that nobody gives a shit?

Mac-7
01-22-2015, 05:32 PM
Review the rules. If they cause you difficultly ask for a tutor.

We lost Google Ads because of $#@!s once. Are you trying to make it twice?

Your rules are my rules whether i agree with them or not.

Mac-7
01-22-2015, 05:33 PM
everything that happens in the world is not about Mac...honest

Unless it happens to involve lost Google Ads.

PolWatch
01-22-2015, 05:33 PM
Your rules are my rules whether i agree with them or not.

pssst....the rules are the forum rules. We don't make the rules. We are all guests in admin's house and he makes the rules.

Matty
01-22-2015, 05:40 PM
Initially I wasn't even going to dignify this with a response, because I detest responding to posts that completely misrepresent my opinions and beliefs, but I decided a response was necessary.

Don't you EVER question my loyalty to my country again. I can criticize the things my government does that I disagree with because this is still a free $#@!ing country and I have a right to try to change the problems I see. I make those criticisms precisely BECAUSE I love my country and hate watching my government corrupt her. It's not bashing my country to criticize my government. For you to say it is and then talk about patriotism? That's false patriotism.

You misfired big time on this one, buddy.
Oh really? Then you don't love the concept of free speech and opinion and viewpoint. Me? I totally get his point of view! There is a lot of America bashing. Not just here but all over the world. I would hate to see what the world looked like without America!

Green Arrow
01-22-2015, 05:48 PM
Oh really? Then you don't love the concept of free speech and opinion and viewpoint. Me? I totally get his point of view! There is a lot of America bashing. Not just here but all over the world. I would hate to see what the world looked like without America!

I never bash America. I do, however, criticize my government.

Alyosha
01-22-2015, 08:14 PM
Actually this thread is how America is awesome but our government eats turd.

Why can't you love America and hate the government? @Matty (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=796) is Obama "America" to you? You've said repeatedly he's not your president and that Hillary wouldn't be either.

I love America. America is Thomas Jefferson. America is my small town. America is the home to the College of William and Mary. America produced the blues, R&B, Motown, and rock and roll. America has the best food. America's founders were awesome.

I just don't like the current government. It happens.

Peter1469
01-22-2015, 08:18 PM
Your rules are my rules whether i agree with them or not.

Well, that is true. We agree once again.

Peter1469
01-22-2015, 08:20 PM
We should do a field trip to UVA and Monticello. Study history and ghost hunt on the side.


Actually this thread is how America is awesome but our government eats turd.

Why can't you love America and hate the government? @Matty (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=796) is Obama "America" to you? You've said repeatedly he's not your president and that Hillary wouldn't be either.

I love America. America is Thomas Jefferson. America is my small town. America is the home to the College of William and Mary. America produced the blues, R&B, Motown, and rock and roll. America has the best food. America's founders were awesome.

I just don't like the current government. It happens.

Matty
01-22-2015, 08:23 PM
Actually this thread is how America is awesome but our government eats turd.

Why can't you love America and hate the government? @Matty (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=796) is Obama "America" to you? You've said repeatedly he's not your president and that Hillary wouldn't be either.

I love America. America is Thomas Jefferson. America is my small town. America is the home to the College of William and Mary. America produced the blues, R&B, Motown, and rock and roll. America has the best food. America's founders were awesome.

I just don't like the current government. It happens.
Nobody said you cannot. What I said is there is plenty of America bashing here and throughout the world?

protectionist
01-22-2015, 10:34 PM
Yah, the Nazis tried to kill all the Jews they could ID. That was an attempt @ genocide, certainly.

Radical Islam? They talk a good fight, but realistically, they can't even fight off the state of Israel, let alone target every Jew in the World. If they can't manage a small minority of the World's population, they're going to do even worse against Christianity - another of their stated goals.

On nukes - yah, radical Islamists would like to have nuclear weapons. Pakistan has had nukes since May of 1998 - & their government is notoriously unstable. So why haven't Pakistani nukes wound up in radical Islamist arsenals? Nuclear weapons have signatures - you can track U down to a specific area. Even Pakistani ISI & military - the power behind the curtains there - must figure that the US, NATO, the separate nuclear powers in the West, India, Israel - would rain destruction down on Pakistan if any of their nuclear weapons got into terrorist hands, & especially if such weapons were used.

The Islamic radicals may be more dangerous - they certainly seem blood-obsessed, even compared to the Nazis. But the Nazis had a real state, a regular military, an economy, the technological & academic resources to produce their own war materiel. Pakistan has done remarkable work in physics & U enrichment - but they also relied upon massive outside funding - we (& Saudi Arabia & other countries) subsidized the Afghan mujahedeen war against the USSR in Afghanistan, & now recently our operations & then invasion of Afghanistan. Pakistan in both cases skimmed money, supplies off the flows to the mujahedeen - we even allowed Pakistan to distribute the money - foolish, my opinion.

Paki ISI tried to pick & choose winners - which meant military groups that would cooperate with the Pakistan line - & especially to allowing Paki forces to use Afghan for defense in depth (the Paki military & ISI are forever preparing to lose the next war with India. There used to be an E. Pakistan - see Bangladesh).

So, unless Pakistan decides to stage an end-of-the-World attack on India, I don't see any real danger of radical Islam getting nuclear weapons.

Are you aware of the Pentagons plans to raid Pakistan to get their nukes ? (which they are driving around through city streets in ordinary cargo vans)

And regardless of what you may see, the Paki nukes are a huge danger, as are the ones coming around in Iran, as are ones ISIS cold acquire in time with more and more Iraqi oil wealth. And the treats aren't just nuclear. There is cyber warfare which could be devastating, EMP attacks, biological, etc (and we saw what just 19 guys in 4 airplanes could do)

protectionist
01-22-2015, 10:39 PM
It really screws up the posting experience for members who use cell phones or other small screens. Plus the fair use copyright rule is important to us now that we have Google Ads.

I have no idea what you're talking about. "cell phones" ? "small screens" ?.............??

protectionist
01-22-2015, 10:45 PM
Bump.

Here. Less waste of space and more information is provided at the link.

It's not a "waste of space". It is necessary for people to SEE how much there is in terrorism in the US. Your version makes it look like there were only 5 attacks (and a lot of people don't click links) The list I presented shows it at a GLANCE, and I spent quite some time and effort extracting the items from the source, FOR A REASON, so people could see them more easily/readily. I have also provided the link.

protectionist
01-22-2015, 10:55 PM
it's based on statistics. A study was done that found that drone strikes maim or kill roughly fifty innocents for every one terrorist.


link ?

southwest88
01-23-2015, 12:55 AM
Are you aware of the Pentagons plans to raid Pakistan to get their nukes ? (which they are driving around through city streets in ordinary cargo vans)

And regardless of what you may see, the Paki nukes are a huge danger, as are the ones coming around in Iran, as are ones ISIS cold acquire in time with more and more Iraqi oil wealth. And the treats aren't just nuclear. There is cyber warfare which could be devastating, EMP attacks, biological, etc (and we saw what just 19 guys in 4 airplanes could do)

Yah, I assume that there are US plans, Indian plans, Israeli plans - if anyone sneezes wrong in a crisis there, Pakistan will have swathes of uninhabitable land for a while. Because if we can't secure the weapons, the next-best thing would be to destroy them in place.

Iran might be a danger - but I think the ruling elites in Iran like their positions.

ISIS in Iraq - operate oil pumps, drills, pipeline infrastructure, refineries? They don't strike me as technocrats, nor as believers in maintenance. If they're all as God-smacked as they seem to be, they can barely plan to throw their lives away in human-wave attacks. Similarly cyberwar - it's not their forte. They may have some capable people, but their main characteristics seem to be beheadings & stonings & floggings, & other fairly pointless violence. Very scary to unarmed civilians, of course. To proper military, that just adds disgust to the normal desire to do their duty. EMP attack normally implies a tac nuke that's been jiggered to yield a bigger EMP than normal - again, high-energy/nuke physics. They might have some tame physicists in tow, but it's not likely that that they have a resource with the right resume plus the willingness to risk life & limb for them.

Biological attacks might be possible - depends on the level of expertise of their tame experts. They might be able to do something there - depends on our level of preparedness & some imponderables. As for a repeat of the 09/11 attack - Look, Al Qaeda did a lot of homework & some very astute reconnaissance - I don't think we have those kind of systematic vulnerabilities that Al Qaeda found to ID & exploit on ordinary passenger security for large US domestic airports. While we're busy pursuing ISIS & related through the fields & harrying them wherever we find them, I don't think they're going to be doing any deep plotting.

Just like the Soviets, these guys aren't 10 feet tall. They're practicing asymmetric warfare - they have to be more creative, in order to turn our weapons (large, fully fuelled commercial domestic airliners, in the case of 09/11) against us. I don't see an equivalent case for the scenarios you're laying out above.

protectionist
01-23-2015, 01:41 AM
Yah, I assume that there are US plans, Indian plans, Israeli plans - if anyone sneezes wrong in a crisis there, Pakistan will have swathes of uninhabitable land for a while. Because if we can't secure the weapons, the next-best thing would be to destroy them in place.

Iran might be a danger - but I think the ruling elites in Iran like their positions.

ISIS in Iraq - operate oil pumps, drills, pipeline infrastructure, refineries? They don't strike me as technocrats, nor as believers in maintenance. If they're all as God-smacked as they seem to be, they can barely plan to throw their lives away in human-wave attacks. Similarly cyberwar - it's not their forte. They may have some capable people, but their main characteristics seem to be beheadings & stonings & floggings, & other fairly pointless violence. Very scary to unarmed civilians, of course. To proper military, that just adds disgust to the normal desire to do their duty. EMP attack normally implies a tac nuke that's been jiggered to yield a bigger EMP than normal - again, high-energy/nuke physics. They might have some tame physicists in tow, but it's not likely that that they have a resource with the right resume plus the willingness to risk life & limb for them.

Biological attacks might be possible - depends on the level of expertise of their tame experts. They might be able to do something there - depends on our level of preparedness & some imponderables. As for a repeat of the 09/11 attack - Look, Al Qaeda did a lot of homework & some very astute reconnaissance - I don't think we have those kind of systematic vulnerabilities that Al Qaeda found to ID & exploit on ordinary passenger security for large US domestic airports. While we're busy pursuing ISIS & related through the fields & harrying them wherever we find them, I don't think they're going to be doing any deep plotting.

Just like the Soviets, these guys aren't 10 feet tall. They're practicing asymmetric warfare - they have to be more creative, in order to turn our weapons (large, fully fuelled commercial domestic airliners, in the case of 09/11) against us. I don't see an equivalent case for the scenarios you're laying out above.

You can think whatever you think, but I don't place much value on the opinions of anyone who doesn't see any real danger of radical Islam getting nuclear weapons, nor do I get the feeling that you have the knowledge to assess the jihad threat to any conclusive degree. sounds like you're just tossing some wild guesses around.

zelmo1234
01-23-2015, 08:18 AM
Fewer people will die because we won't have turf wars, nor will the drugs be cut with cleaning fluid and carpet fiber. Moreover, the progression from certain drugs to heroin will not happen due to lack of availability. That would account for close to 1/4 of drug related deaths.

However, alcohol which is the drug most associated with death will still remain a threat because it is the most widely abused and also the one people know little about. All central nervous system depressants have high potential for death. This is why AA is largely responsible for the deaths of many with their "Cold Turkey" approach rather than the taper off, because their Big Book was written before we had an understanding of brain chemistry and the complexities of the central nervous system.

One of my best friend's from high school's father died in the hospital from DTs and he only went in for knee surgery. Forty years of excessive drinking to be abated overnight caused system shock. It was bizarre. You go in for knee surgery and die.

That does not seem to be the case

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/nine-months-colorado-legalized-recreational-marijuana/

Mac-7
01-23-2015, 08:38 AM
That does not seem to be the case

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/nine-months-colorado-legalized-recreational-marijuana/

Very informative.

But also very obvious for those who stop to think about it.

Its too bad that the libertarians and anarchists singing the praises of legalized drugs do not realize how much they don't know.

It sounds like the cops will still be busy busting pot dealers in the hood for selling under the table without a license and not paying the tax.

Sort of like the black guy in New York City selling onesy cigarettes on the street.

southwest88
01-23-2015, 12:25 PM
You can think whatever you think, but I don't place much value on the opinions of anyone who doesn't see any real danger of radical Islam getting nuclear weapons, nor do I get the feeling that you have the knowledge to assess the jihad threat to any conclusive degree. sounds like you're just tossing some wild guesses around.

Gots. No worries.

Mini Me
01-24-2015, 04:32 PM
There isn't an election pending so we don't need to talk about Ebola....gotta have something to keep people too scared to look behind the curtains!

They're coming for us! Get the duct tape ready!

Its the Shadow Government behind all the terrorism.

The PNAC Neocon war group wants more profits, so now they have created a New Cold War, and endless wars in the middle east.

Mini Me
01-24-2015, 04:47 PM
There's a strong argument to be made there. For example, nobody in America died from a terrorist attack last month (correct me if I'm wrong), but surely "many" Americans died from something related to the war on drugs and its unintended consequences. For example, drug prohibition creates black market drug cartels, which result in many thousands of deaths each year. Then you have the millions of non-violent drug offenders rotting away in prison or jail or some kind of legal limbo. This is probably the biggest opportunity cost that is imposed on America right now, are the millions upon millions of non-productive prisoners and probates who are relegated to poverty (and all the negative side effects that come with it) by drug prohibition. And housing those prisoners, and paying the army of cops, guards, lawyers, and judges who put them there, is not cheap. Another massive opportunity cost that takes away vital resources and throws them down a black hole.

Right! The Criminal Injustice System is a HUGE contributer to poverty and lost lives, and once in that system its almost impossible to get out from under it and go strait in a society that offers so few decent jobs, and decaying cities and towns. What perpetuates drug addiction is HOPELESSNESS and ALIENATION and a punishing God and its people.

Alyosha can certainly testify to how the "system" crushes peoples lives.
We can have no freedom when we are the incarceration nation of the world, that would even make the Cheka green with envy. The War on Drugs is a total failure!

PolWatch
01-24-2015, 04:52 PM
Right! The Criminal Injustice System is a HUGE contributer to poverty and lost lives, and once in that system its almost impossible to get out from under it and go strait in a society that offers so few decent jobs, and decaying cities and towns. What perpetuates drug addiction is HOPELESSNESS and ALIENATION and a punishing God and its people.

Alyosha can certainly testify to how the "system" crushes peoples lives.
We can have no freedom when we are the incarceration nation of the world, that would even make the Cheka green with envy. The War on Drugs is a total failure!

There you go again...logic! That is never going to get any attention. You need to find a pulpit & preach about those evil people who are so different from the rest of us! We would never do the evil things they do...so its not our problem!

protectionist
01-24-2015, 07:25 PM
Its the Shadow Government behind all the terrorism.

The PNAC Neocon war group wants more profits, so now they have created a New Cold War, and endless wars in the middle east.


If only there weren't those 100+ Muslim attacks/conquests around the world, for 1400 years, we actually might have believed that.

protectionist
01-24-2015, 07:28 PM
Right! The Criminal Injustice System is a HUGE contributer to poverty and lost lives, and once in that system its almost impossible to get out from under it and go strait in a society that offers so few decent jobs, and decaying cities and towns. What perpetuates drug addiction is HOPELESSNESS and ALIENATION and a punishing God and its people.

Alyosha can certainly testify to how the "system" crushes peoples lives.
We can have no freedom when we are the incarceration nation of the world, that would even make the Cheka green with envy. The War on Drugs is a total failure! It's true that victimless crimes (prostitution, drug possession, panhandling, etc) shouldn't be punished, but there are relatively very few people incarcerated for these things, as a opposed to crimes that DO have victims (which includes dealing drugs)

donttread
01-25-2015, 08:23 AM
There you go again...logic! That is never going to get any attention. You need to find a pulpit & preach about those evil people who are so different from the rest of us! We would never do the evil things they do...so its not our problem!

Not only is the war on drugs an abject failure but ALL real world evidence shows that prohibition is ALWAYS a failure

Mac-7
01-25-2015, 08:29 AM
Not only is the war on drugs an abject failure but ALL real world evidence shows that prohibition is ALWAYS a failure

Agreed.

We have tried to prohibit murder since Moses retuned from the mountain but it's still with us.

Time to legalize?

donttread
01-25-2015, 08:35 AM
Agreed.

We have tried to prohibit murder since Moses retuned from the mountain but it's still with us.

Time to legalize?

Is murder happening on every corner, in every town in America at all times? Do you live under the delusion that drug prohibitions limits drug use

Matty
01-25-2015, 08:39 AM
Is murder happening on every corner, in every town in America at all times? Do you live under the delusion that drug prohibitions limits drug use


Does making murder illegal stop murder?

donttread
01-25-2015, 08:41 AM
Does making murder illegal stop murder?

It decreases it, yes. Drugs are different, victimless crimes

Mac-7
01-25-2015, 10:23 AM
It decreases it, yes. Drugs are different, victimless crimes

You said nothing about victimless crimes before.

Only whether making drug against the law has stopped drug use.

protectionist
01-25-2015, 02:41 PM
Not only is the war on drugs an abject failure but ALL real world evidence shows that prohibition is ALWAYS a failure

We don't really have evidence. It would take cancellation of our drug laws to measure it. My guess is if selling addicting drugs was legal, we'd have a nation of drug addicts, with most of the population addicted. It would be chaos.

protectionist
01-25-2015, 02:44 PM
Does making murder illegal stop murder?

Of course it does. If murder was not illegal, we'd have 10 times as many murders as we have. Maybe much more than that. I know lots of people who would murder someone just over some slight insulting remark. Multiply that by about 100 million.

PS - the TOPIC is about terrorism, and that is beyond the scope of simple murder. Terrorists kill regardless of any legal structure. Also, drugs is off topic.

donttread
01-25-2015, 03:21 PM
You said nothing about victimless crimes before.

Only whether making drug against the law has stopped drug use.

Look the fuck around you . Does availability seem to be going down?