Free Community College?

[PolWatch]

I believe we need to change our attitudes about higher education. I believe we need to stop looking at the cost of technical schools and colleges as something an individual should carry...limiting the access to those with the financial resources. My suggestions involve investment by the student in both ability and desire, not just a free give-away. We need to view education as an investment and not a luxury....but it's not going to accomplish anything unless we educate those who actually care.

This latest idea is nothing but political posturing. What a waste of time.

'If enacted, the President's proposal would be unlikely to achieve its ultimate aims and would exacerbate a larger problem lurking behind college financing. Although the plan amounts to little more than political posturing given the current congressional makeup, it will negatively influence the political conversation around higher education in the years ahead.
By supporting free community college, President Obama is merely kicking the can down the road for future generations to confront. We need a better strategy for skills training overall before we go further down the track of subsidizing students to attend community college only to emerge with little to show for it.'

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/20/opinion/horn-community-college/index.html?eref=edition

[nic34]

This is just California.

I would go beyond CC and advocate discounting the cost of 4 year college as well. Students would have to give back and commit a certain amount of hours to community service during and after attending.


Value to California:


California community colleges educate 70 percent of our state’s nurses.

California community colleges train 80 percent of firefighters, law enforcement personnel, and emergency medical technicians.

Twenty-nine percent of University of California and 51 percent of California State University graduates started at a California community college.

Transfer students from the California Community Colleges to the University of California system currently account for 48 percent of UC’s bachelor’s degrees in science, technology, engineering and mathematics.

Community colleges offer associate degrees and short-term job training certificates in more than 175 fields, and more than 100,000 individuals are trained each year in industry-specific workforce skills.

Nearly 42 percent of all California veterans receiving GI educational benefits attend a California community college for workforce training, to earn an associate degree or to work toward transferring to a four-year university.


http://californiacommunitycolleges.cccco.edu/PolicyInAction/KeyFacts.aspx

[nathanbforrest45]

Free health care
Free education
Free day care for working mothers
Affordable housing for all
Sustainable Food Supplies

Yes folks, a vote for Adolph Hitler is a vote for prosperity.

(Look it up, this was the Nazi Party's platform under Hitler.

[PolWatch]

This is just California.

I would go beyond CC and advocate discounting the cost of 4 year college as well. Students would have to give back and commit a certain amount of hours to community service during and after attending.


Value to California:


California community colleges educate 70 percent of our state’s nurses.

California community colleges train 80 percent of firefighters, law enforcement personnel, and emergency medical technicians.

Twenty-nine percent of University of California and 51 percent of California State University graduates started at a California community college.

Transfer students from the California Community Colleges to the University of California system currently account for 48 percent of UC’s bachelor’s degrees in science, technology, engineering and mathematics.

Community colleges offer associate degrees and short-term job training certificates in more than 175 fields, and more than 100,000 individuals are trained each year in industry-specific workforce skills.

Nearly 42 percent of all California veterans receiving GI educational benefits attend a California community college for workforce training, to earn an associate degree or to work toward transferring to a four-year university.


http://californiacommunitycolleges.cccco.edu/PolicyInAction/KeyFacts.aspx

I did not intend to disparage community colleges. My issue is by making them free for everyone, we will end up wasting the money when it could be used more effectively. I believe that students who really want the education are willing to work for it. I think that requiring a certain grade average for entrance to the programs is sensible. Requiring a set commitment for employment after graduation is a way to help solve other problems such as health care workers in rural areas.

Education is an investment in the nation's future. I would like to see our investment go to those who will use it effectively. I don't think just making community college free for everyone will accomplish that goal.

[Mac-7]

Any student in America that wants a college education can get one now.

Without a new government handout from Obama.

But it does require more effort for some than others.

[nic34]

I did not intend to disparage community colleges. My issue is by making them free for everyone, we will end up wasting the money when it could be used more effectively. I believe that students who really want the education are willing to work for it. I think that requiring a certain grade average for entrance to the programs is sensible. Requiring a set commitment for employment after graduation is a way to help solve other problems such as health care workers in rural areas.

Education is an investment in the nation's future. I would like to see our investment go to those who will use it effectively. I don't think just making community college free for everyone will accomplish that goal.

The intent is not to make it something free for everyone, only those that can meet the qualifications and standards. It's that way for all college entrants. Just the financial costs involved are less.

What seems to get lost in these things all the time are the actual details. (Nat's biased generalizations noted)

The requirements:


What students have to do: Students must attend community college at least half-time, maintain a 2.5 GPA, and make steady progress toward completing their program.

What community colleges have to do: Community colleges will be expected to offer programs that are either 1) academic programs that fully transfer credits to local public four-year colleges and universities, or 2) occupational training programs with high graduation rates and lead to in-demand degrees and certificates. Community colleges must also adopt promising and evidence-based institutional reforms to improve student outcomes.

What the federal government has to do: Federal funding will cover three-quarters of the average cost of community college. Participating states will be expected to contribute the remaining funds necessary to eliminate the tuition for eligible students.


http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2015/01/08/president-proposes-make-community-college-free-responsible-students-2-years

[GrassrootsConservative]

How do you plan to pay colleges for their time and the materials needed to educate people? Nothing is free, schools aren't just going to educate people for free no matter what Obama promises. You people need to wake up.

And I haven't gone to college yet because I don't know what I want to do and don't want to get into debt. Please don't put me in debt making my taxes pay for some faggot's Liberal Arts degree or whatever.

[Polecat]

I would support a full ride for those that have the academic ability. But at the same time I would insist that idiots be barred from wasting these resources. Some people are just not suited to education. Trying to educate them anyway is just plain stupid.

[PolWatch]

There is nothing available to tell us what the restrictions (if any) or plans for this program. Without requiring effort on the part of the student it will only end up only meaning that high school is 6 years instead of 4.

[GrassrootsConservative]

I would support a full ride for those that have the academic ability. But at the same time I would insist that idiots be barred from wasting these resources. Some people are just not suited to education. Trying to educate them anyway is just plain stupid.

How much money are you all, personally, willing to put forth to pay for someone else's education?

[Chris]

Investment? I invested in education. I started at community college, over 5 years or so, while I worked factories and other jobs, I earned 2 years credit toward university. I appreciate the fact that when I turned 25 my parents helped pay tuition the next two years at university while I worked as janitor to pay for food, clothing, housing...and beer etc. I went on to graduate school because the university paid me first as a teaching assistant, later, when I returned to school at around 35, as a research assistant. The investment was worth it.

I doubt very much I would have appreciated it and go on as far as I did if I hadn't made the investment, if, say, government had. I went to what was considered a party school, and had it been free, I would have just partied. Not that I didn't, but I also worked and studied hard too.

[nic34]

There is nothing available to tell us what the restrictions (if any) or plans for this program. Without requiring effort on the part of the student it will only end up only meaning that high school is 6 years instead of 4.

If a student can't keep up a 2.5 gpa, you're done. Simple.

[PolWatch]

I continue to pay property taxes to finance local schools even though I have no child in school. Why would I object to investing in the future of the nation by helping other children get a quality education?

States like Georgia & Arkansas already have a very effective program in place to put their children ahead of the rest of the nation. Their lottery programs pay for it with no expense to taxpayers. Any student in the state can go to a 4 year, state facility for free if they graduate with a certain grade average and keep the grades in college. It's not a free ride to 4 years of party.

[nic34]

Investment? I invested in education. I started at community college, over 5 years or so, while I worked factories and other jobs, I earned 2 years credit toward university. I appreciate the fact that when I turned 25 my parents helped pay tuition the next two years at university while I worked as janitor to pay for food, clothing, housing...and beer etc. I went on to graduate school because the university paid me first as a teaching assistant, later, when I returned to school at around 35, as a research assistant. The investment was worth it.

I doubt very much I would have appreciated it and go on as far as I did if I hadn't made the investment, if, say, government had. I went to what was considered a party school, and had it been free, I would have just partied. Not that I didn't, but I also worked and studied hard too.

I didn't hear that this covers "food, clothing, housing...and beer etc." Students still need to do that for themselves.

[Chris]

If can't keep up a 2.5 gpa, you're done. Simple.

Taxpayers should pay for C work?

[Chris]

I didn't hear that this covers "food, clothing, housing...and beer etc." Students still need to do that for themselves.

Nice distraction, nic, the point is people should invest in education, themselves. I don't want to pay someone else's tuition, I got better things to do with my money--the money I earn because I invested in my education.

[The Xl]

This will just overflood the market with 2 year degrees and it will become the new high school diploma. Waste of time, imo.

[Chris]

Good point. Now apply supply and demand and community college degrees will lose value. Same way inflation works, flood the economy with money, it becomes worth less.

[Alyosha]

The intent is not to make it something free for everyone, only those that can meet the qualifications and standards. It's that way for all college entrants. Just the financial costs involved are less.

What seems to get lost in these things all the time are the actual details. (Nat's biased generalizations noted)

The requirements:


What students have to do: Students must attend community college at least half-time, maintain a 2.5 GPA, and make steady progress toward completing their program.

What community colleges have to do: Community colleges will be expected to offer programs that are either 1) academic programs that fully transfer credits to local public four-year colleges and universities, or 2) occupational training programs with high graduation rates and lead to in-demand degrees and certificates. Community colleges must also adopt promising and evidence-based institutional reforms to improve student outcomes.

What the federal government has to do: Federal funding will cover three-quarters of the average cost of community college. Participating states will be expected to contribute the remaining funds necessary to eliminate the tuition for eligible students.


http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2015/01/08/president-proposes-make-community-college-free-responsible-students-2-years


A 2.5 is a "C". That's mediocre. I'm floored that we'd pay for people to do a half-assed job in school or why we're impressed by nurses who were C students.

Can you explain why you feel people should be paid to go to a less stringent school and produce less than stellar grades and still get paid to go?

[Alyosha]

We can educate ourselves online if the goal is knowledge. This program is not about education at all but a certificate for the purpose of finding work. The tenets and principles of markets are that scarcity commands more money. Once nearly everyone (and a C average will ensure that) is able to get a certificate the certificate will be so prevalent that it's worth what a high school diploma is now.

I agree that we ought to try to do something but I'm not a supporter of "lets do something even if its wrong".

Unintended consequences are a bitch.

[hanger4]

I didn't hear that this covers "food, clothing, housing...and beer etc." Students still need to do that for themselves.

Reckon how long that'll last ??

[del]

How much money are you all, personally, willing to put forth to pay for someone else's education?

so far?

about $145,000

thanks for asking

[hanger4]

Good point. Now apply supply and demand and community college degrees will lose value. Same way inflation works, flood the economy with money, it becomes worth less.

Not to mention the cost of CC will rise once they get their

hands then wrist then arms fully up the tax payers arse.

[nic34]

A 2.5 is a "C". That's mediocre. I'm floored that we'd pay for people to do a half-assed job in school or why we're impressed by nurses who were C students.

Can you explain why you feel people should be paid to go to a less stringent school and produce less than stellar grades and still get paid to go?

We're talking Com College, Ally, not MIT or Stanford for cryin' out loud....

I only know in my case my son would hardly be able to get an interview much less anything over minimum in his first year after his 2 years at Glendale CC. Free tuition would have helped him get a better head start on his certification testing. (Not free)

He is now on his way to an ASE certification in modern diesel engines and working for a large dealer, and not as some lot boy or at a quickie lube.

Oh and yes, he did pay for a lot of it working as a landscaper.

[texan]

The program I would be interested in introducing is a vocational college degree for those who really are not interested in traditional college. I believe this is where we drop the ball. Those that want college go and Community college is really cheap. This is not an issue for people.

I would like to see a HS senior get 1/2 day learning a skill they like and 1/2 the day focusing on some core courses that compliment. If the goal is to make someone a functional part of society then start the training as a HS Freshman. Stop sending the person to home economics they could care less about. This would start to get people off the streets.

One other course they should take is Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University or something like it.......We waste so much time ramming a square peg into round holes in our schools.


The rest of this is just political theater.

[Guerilla]

This will just overflood the market with 2 year degrees and it will become the new high school diploma. Waste of time, imo.

The sad part is, high school is already a waste of time. If your just going to be a worker bee, then leave school after 6th grade. If you are going to be an educated person that possesses the critical thinking ability, then you should have already started college or learning your career before high school starts.

Lots of kids don't like school, I'm convinced it's because school isn't tailored to the student, so doesn't give motivation and direction. Those are key, and if you don't have that, school sucks. We need to stop the general education way younger than 18 and begin more specialized education.

Damn Prussian based schooling system..

Anyway, overall, I believe in equal access to knowledge for everyone. That does not mean equal access to a teacher.

I like this quote, paraphrased "I'm convinced that any real learning, is self-taught". All we really need is to provide the knowledge. The people should be able to work from there.

[Matty]

Really industrious smart hard working kids have a 2 year degree when they graduate high school. My granddaughter will.

[PolWatch]

Really industrious smart hard working kids have a 2 year degree when they graduate high school. My granddaughter will.

to me, that is the type of student that deserves assistance to further her education. The number of scholarships available now can't begin to help all those who need them.

I don't think 2 year should be so meaningless that it becomes an extension of high school for low achievers. I think hard working students and their families should get some help. I still believe that an education is an investment in the nation's future. It doesn't have to be college, technical or trade schools should be included. Not everyone wants or needs a 4 year degree.

[Guerilla]

Really industrious smart hard working kids have a 2 year degree when they graduate high school. My granddaughter will.

Ok so tell me what the point of doing high school is when she's obviously already smart and hard working enough to have been going to college already? Not to mention the fact that you spend half the day, 5 days a week in high school. College is about half the day a couple days a week.

Why, if the student is ready for college, do you have them still spending half the day at high school, as if it's some babysitting program, in classes that don't even count toward anything except a useless high school diploma?

Your granddaughter is doing well, but has still wasted a lot of time. She could be almost done with a 4 years of college, instead of 4 years of useless high school, and only 2 years of college. At least that's the way I see it.

[Matty]

Ok so tell me what the point of doing high school is when she's obviously already smart and hard working enough to have been going to college already? Not to mention the fact that you spend half the day, 5 days a week in high school. College is about half the day a couple days a week.

Why, if the student is ready for college, do you have them still spending half the day at high school, as if it's some babysitting program, in classes that don't even count toward anything except a useless high school diploma?

Your granddaughter is doing well, but has still wasted a lot of time. She could be almost done with a 4 years of college, instead of 4 years of useless high school, and only 2 years of college. At least that's the way I see it.


Did she have a choice?

she hasn't wasted any time. Did I mention she won the John Phillip Souza award too? She's a busy little girly!

[nic34]

College is about half the day a couple days a week.

You wish..... :shocked:

[Green Arrow]

President Obama took the idea from Tennessee. He even referenced us in his SOTU when he presented the idea.

I think it was probably one of the few things I agreed with him on.

[Green Arrow]

How do you plan to pay colleges for their time and the materials needed to educate people? Nothing is free, schools aren't just going to educate people for free no matter what Obama promises. You people need to wake up.

Twelve years of pre-college education says otherwise.

[Matty]

Twelve years of pre-college education says otherwise.


You really don't think k-12 is " free" do you?

[Alyosha]

We're talking Com College, Ally, not MIT or Stanford for cryin' out loud....

I realize that. You don't think it's all the worse that you are only expected to carry a middle "C" in a college that is not Harvard? How low are your expectations of people if all you require is that they do "so-so" at a "so-so" school?




I only know in my case my son would hardly be able to get an interview much less anything over minimum in his first year after his 2 years at Glendale CC. Free tuition would have helped him get a better head start on his certification testing. (Not free)


Exactly because right now there is less opportunity for those degrees or any other. Make them the standard and they will be the equivalent of a high school diploma with trade courses.



He is now on his way to an ASE certification in modern diesel engines and working for a large dealer, and not as some lot boy or at a quickie lube.


Because there is scarcity of the ASE cert. When more people have them, there will be higher expecations.



Oh and yes, he did pay for a lot of it working as a landscaper.

Really besides the point.

I know people hate to deal in reality but there is a reason why lobster is more expensive than chicken. Because it is harder to come by, it costs more. Because fewer people have a college degree it gives them a leg up over those that don't have it. As more and more people gained access to four year degrees, now businesses are looking for those with master's programs.

http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2013/article/pdf/occupational-employment-projections-to-2022.pdf


http://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine/2013/08/10/going-back-school-worth/XSy3KSZfl7h7AAnqtZYnoI/story.html


My complaint is not about "paying for something" it's the fact that many good hearted people such as yourself look want to do something good and will trust any program that is sold off the backs of "helping people" without looking at the unintended consequences of it.

What good will a 2 year degree be when there are 600% more of them? About as good as a four year now. Look at how many college students are living at home, can't get an affordable job and are now going back for a master's degree to make them more advantageous.

I'd rather us fund a 4 year degree in the sciences for anyone who can keep up a "B" than to fund 2 year degrees for anyone who can hold a "C" at community college.

We should think smarter not nicer and in the end we may serve both.

[Green Arrow]

You really don't think k-12 is " free" do you?

It's paid for by taxes, same with "free" community college. But you don't have to go in like you do with private school and pay a certain sum of money out of pocket for your child to go to school there, which makes it free in the context of the discussion.

[momsapplepie]

It's come out for all Obama's intentions of "helping" the middle class, there's a bill he's ready to sign that cuts the tax break for the 529's people use to fund their children's education. That's right, you will now be taxed on your children's education fund. He's taking away the Bush Tax exemption for the middle class. Some help huh?

[Matty]

It's paid for by taxes, same with "free" community college. But you don't have to go in like you do with private school and pay a certain sum of money out of pocket for your child to go to school there, which makes it free in the context of the discussion.


Schools are are funded by property taxes, the American taxpayer will be on the hook for 75% of the "free college" and the state's will be required to pick up the other 25%. So free isn't free. Someone out there is working their asses off to give other people "free stuff". Free stuff, Obama's wet dream.

[Matty]

Hell, we already have Pell Grants for those who really need help!

[Green Arrow]

Schools are are funded by property taxes, the American taxpayer will be on the hook for 75% of the "free college" and the state's will be required to pick up the other 25%. So free isn't free. Someone out there is working their asses off to give other people "free stuff". Free stuff, Obama's wet dream.

Everyone who pays taxes is paying for their children to go to college, yep.

[Matty]

It's come out for all Obama's intentions of "helping" the middle class, there's a bill he's ready to sign that cuts the tax break for the 529's people use to fund their children's education. That's right, you will now be taxed on your children's education fund. He's taking away the Bush Tax exemption for the middle class. Some help huh?


Roflmao!

[Alyosha]

Why is it that we look for reasons to pay for "something" and never ways of making that "something" cheaper?

There is even a discussion which should be had by everyone and that is: what's the point of education?

If it is for employment why not fund kickstarter programs for new ideas or businesses? If it is for knowledge, why not online education?

[Alyosha]

Everyone who pays taxes is paying for their children to go to college, yep.

And if they don't have children...?

[Matty]

Everyone who pays taxes is paying for their children to go to college, yep.


Yes! And who pays for the people who don't pay taxes?

[Ethereal]

Yes! And who pays for the people who don't pay taxes?

The same people who pay for the army of cops, prison guards, lawyers, and judges that are responsible for throwing non-violent drug users in jail and prison.

[Alyosha]

The same people who pay for the army of cops, prison guards, lawyers, and judges that are responsible for throwing non-violent drug users in jail and prison.

I agree that this is likewise BS that people be asked to fund programs they feel are immoral or poorly executed. Just because someone has a pet industry that they love doesn't mean we all need to support it.

I think we're just too overgrown for federal programs like this. So you get a 2 year degree in a state like Mississippi, how does that help when your largest employers are (forgive me Codename) Walmart and Waffle House?

[Green Arrow]

And if they don't have children...?

Then they can just say their taxes went to pay for something else. It's not all going to one place, it's just all put in a big pot and then divvied up between everything in the sorta-budget.

[Green Arrow]

Yes! And who pays for the people who don't pay taxes?

The people who pay taxes. Kinda like how I'm forced to pay for wars and militarized police that I can't support just because you support them.

[PolWatch]

I believe we need to change the way we look at education and education expense but I don't think this proposal is the way to do it. I remember when JFK called for America to meet the challenge of the Space Age with increased education in science & math.

We are falling behind the rest of the world today and I think we need a similar challenge issued today.

[Alyosha]

Then they can just say their taxes went to pay for something else. It's not all going to one place, it's just all put in a big pot and then divvied up between everything in the sorta-budget.

Exactly so and I disagree with that. Most of our programs never fix the problems that they're intended to fix. They're just a finger in the dike, preventing the dam from bursting, only you're stuck there beside the dam and never getting ahead.


What is this program supposed to fix?

Joblessness?

The fact that we graduate high school seniors with below levels in reading and math?

...?

I don't understand how it would fix the first when the problem isn't a lack of education but a dearth of jobs, and if its to fix the second the best place to do that is in secondary school reform.

Can any of you who support this program explain how increasing the number of community college degrees will put people to work today in this economy?

[Green Arrow]

Exactly so and I disagree with that. Most of our programs never fix the problems that they're intended to fix. They're just a finger in the dike, preventing the dam from bursting, only you're stuck there beside the dam and never getting ahead.


What is this program supposed to fix?

Joblessness?

The fact that we graduate high school seniors with below levels in reading and math?

...?

I don't understand how it would fix the first when the problem isn't a lack of education but a dearth of jobs, and if its to fix the second the best place to do that is in secondary school reform.

Can any of you who support this program explain how increasing the number of community college degrees will put people to work today in this economy?

No, I can't. Frankly, I don't think it will do anything to even come close to solving the problem until we radically reform our education system.

[Alyosha]

No, I can't. Frankly, I don't think it will do anything to even come close to solving the problem until we radically reform our education system.

What is the purpose of our education system?

Let's not ignore the elephant in the room. We don't educate children with a classical education anymore. Why? Because education ceased to be about growing our knowledge. Now it is to create citizens and give them skills to acquire a job.

The latter can only be accomplished if there are jobs and if the education is targeted towards the jobs available.

[Green Arrow]

What is the purpose of our education system?

Let's not ignore the elephant in the room. We don't educate children with a classical education anymore. Why? Because education ceased to be about growing our knowledge. Now it is to create citizens and give them skills to acquire a job.

The latter can only be accomplished if there are jobs and if the education is targeted towards the jobs available.

I agree with you. Hence "radical reform of our education system."

The purpose of our education system now is to prepare children to enter the workforce. That's pretty much it. That shouldn't be the purpose of our education system and frankly it doesn't even succeed at that purpose.

[Mac-7]

We're talking Com College, Ally, not MIT or Stanford for cryin' out loud....

I only know in my case my son would hardly be able to get an interview much less anything over minimum in his first year after his 2 years at Glendale CC. Free tuition would have helped him get a better head start on his certification testing. (Not free)

He is now on his way to an ASE certification in modern diesel engines and working for a large dealer, and not as some lot boy or at a quickie lube.

Oh and yes, he did pay for a lot of it working as a landscaper.

Naturally libs want free stuff from government.

Thats why only democrats stood a cheered when obumer announced it.

[Venus]

There is nothing available to tell us what the restrictions (if any) or plans for this program. Without requiring effort on the part of the student it will only end up only meaning that high school is 6 years instead of 4.

One of the reasons why community/jr./2 yr colleges are so popular now is because public high schools have failed. Community colleges are, for the majority of students, an over priced high school education.

[Redrose]

Free health care
Free education
Free day care for working mothers
Affordable housing for all
Sustainable Food Supplies

Yes folks, a vote for Adolph Hitler is a vote for prosperity.

(Look it up, this was the Nazi Party's platform under Hitler.


Adolph Obama knows that. He's banking on low information voters to buy into his government run Utopia. We won't be a free society, we will be a heavily mandated society.

[Green Arrow]

Adolph Obama knows that. He's banking on low information voters to buy into his government run Utopia. We won't be a free society, we will be a heavily mandated society.

That was highly inappropriate.

[Matty]

That was highly inappropriate.


Why?

[Green Arrow]

Why?

Because comparing Barack Obama to figures like Adolf Hitler trivializes the great evils that Hitler did.

[Peter1469]

We need to totally rethink education in the US. Starting with K-12. It is largely a failure. The average student has to take remedial math and English at university. Knowledge, or rather access to knowledge is becoming decentralized. For motivated students classrooms may become something of the past.

Second, not every person is cut out for college. We need to focus on trade schools for many more students. Also community college is used for two things: (1) as a cheaper option and/or prep for university; (2) used for specific programs like nursing and paralegals. If we push all college students into community college for two years we will suck a lot of money out of our universities (different topic).

I am against providing higher education "for free." It would be for programs that required X number of years in a needed field / location to "pay back" the cost of the education. At least a 3.0 to get into and stay in a program. And a major in a needed field. An example? Sally wants to be a social worker. Sally gets free two years at community college and even finishes her two year degree at university. Then Sally works 4 years in the inner city of Philadelphia. With sufficient job performance she could go for a masters and Phd next- with a similar job requirement after.

[Matty]

Because comparing Barack Obama to figures like Adolf Hitler trivializes the great evils that Hitler did.


But it didn't when the wombats did it to President Bush! We got it!

[Green Arrow]

We need to totally rethink education in the US. Starting with K-12. It is largely a failure. The average student has to take remedial math and English at university. Knowledge, or rather access to knowledge is becoming decentralized. For motivated students classrooms may become something of the past.

Second, not every person is cut out for college. We need to focus on trade schools for many more students. Also community college is used for two things: (1) as a cheaper option and/or prep for university; (2) used for specific programs like nursing and paralegals. If we push all college students into community college for two years we will suck a lot of money out of our universities (different topic).

I am against providing higher education "for free." I would be for programs that required X number of years in a needed field / location to pay back the cost of the education. At least a 3.0 to get into and stay in a program. And a major is a needed field. An example? Sally wants to be a social worker. Sally gets free two years at community college and even finish her two year degree at university. Then Sally works 4 years in the inner city of Philadelphia. With sufficient job performance she could go for a masters and Phd next- with a similar job requirement after.

That's one part of our Tennessee plan that I noticed Obama failed to mention. It's not just two years of free community college, we're also giving Tennessee high school graduates two years of trade school free.

[Green Arrow]

But it didn't when the wombats did it to President Bush! We got it!

Actually, I think it was even more inappropriate when they did it to Bush.

[Matty]

We need to totally rethink education in the US. Starting with K-12. It is largely a failure. The average student has to take remedial math and English at university. Knowledge, or rather access to knowledge is becoming decentralized. For motivated students classrooms may become something of the past.

Second, not every person is cut out for college. We need to focus on trade schools for many more students. Also community college is used for two things: (1) as a cheaper option and/or prep for university; (2) used for specific programs like nursing and paralegals. If we push all college students into community college for two years we will suck a lot of money out of our universities (different topic).

I am against providing higher education "for free." It would be for programs that required X number of years in a needed field / location to "pay back" the cost of the education. At least a 3.0 to get into and stay in a program. And a major in a needed field. An example? Sally wants to be a social worker. Sally gets free two years at community college and even finishes her two year degree at university. Then Sally works 4 years in the inner city of Philadelphia. With sufficient job performance she could go for a masters and Phd next- with a similar job requirement after.


The first most important step is to take education out of the hands of the teachers union.

[silvereyes]

I would support a full ride for those that have the academic ability. But at the same time I would insist that idiots be barred from wasting these resources. Some people are just not suited to education. Trying to educate them anyway is just plain stupid.
Can i name a few here? :)

[Peter1469]

Can i name a few here? :)

Please no.

[PolWatch]

Our system (?) has not made up it's mind if we are offering an employment education or a classical education. College seems to hover between the two, accomplishing neither.

[silvereyes]

Please no.

Lol. I wouldnt.

[Redrose]

I did not intend to disparage community colleges. My issue is by making them free for everyone, we will end up wasting the money when it could be used more effectively. I believe that students who really want the education are willing to work for it. I think that requiring a certain grade average for entrance to the programs is sensible. Requiring a set commitment for employment after graduation is a way to help solve other problems such as health care workers in rural areas.

Education is an investment in the nation's future. I would like to see our investment go to those who will use it effectively. I don't think just making community college free for everyone will accomplish that goal.


It's human nature, people don't value, respect or treasure things that come too easily. How many people have given a teen a car at 16, only to have that car trashed, crashed and junked? But when that same teen grows up and buys his own car with a hefty note attached, the car is cherished, garaged, polished every Saturday morning. People need to have a vested interest to make them appreciate the value.

[The Sage of Main Street]

I believe we need to change our attitudes about higher education. I believe we need to stop looking at the cost of technical schools and colleges as something an individual should carry...limiting the access to those with the financial resources. My suggestions involve investment by the student in both ability and desire, not just a free give-away. We need to view education as an investment and not a luxury....but it's not going to accomplish anything unless we educate those who actually care.

This latest idea is nothing but political posturing. What a waste of time.

'If enacted, the President's proposal would be unlikely to achieve its ultimate aims and would exacerbate a larger problem lurking behind college financing. Although the plan amounts to little more than political posturing given the current congressional makeup, it will negatively influence the political conversation around higher education in the years ahead.
By supporting free community college, President Obama is merely kicking the can down the road for future generations to confront. We need a better strategy for skills training overall before we go further down the track of subsidizing students to attend community college only to emerge with little to show for it.'

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/20/opinion/horn-community-college/index.html?eref=edition How many college athletes would have gone to college if all they got was free tuition and had to live in student poverty on part-time jobs? How many rich kids would stay in tuition-free college if they didn't get a fat allowance from fatcat Daddy?

[Redrose]

That was highly inappropriate.


Maybe so, but it's open season on Republicans with name calling, I could go though old posts and find hundreds of "names" for Bush, Palin, Romney, McCain, and dozens more, much more offensive in my opinion. Actually, there is a big difference between those two men, AH loved his country.

Like it or not, agree or disagree, the fact remains there are similarities with President Barack H. Obama's agenda and words and that of many of the world's former dictators, Hitler is just one.

[Matty]

How many college athletes would have gone to college if all they got was free tuition and had to live in student poverty on part-time jobs? How many rich kids would stay in tuition-free college if they didn't get a fat allowance from fatcat Daddy?


I take it it yours was skinny!

[The Sage of Main Street]

This is just California.

I would go beyond CC and advocate discounting the cost of 4 year college as well. Students would have to give back and commit a certain amount of hours to community service during and after attending.


Value to California:


California community colleges educate 70 percent of our state’s nurses.

California community colleges train 80 percent of firefighters, law enforcement personnel, and emergency medical technicians.

Twenty-nine percent of University of California and 51 percent of California State University graduates started at a California community college.

Transfer students from the California Community Colleges to the University of California system currently account for 48 percent of UC’s bachelor’s degrees in science, technology, engineering and mathematics.

Community colleges offer associate degrees and short-term job training certificates in more than 175 fields, and more than 100,000 individuals are trained each year in industry-specific workforce skills.

Nearly 42 percent of all California veterans receiving GI educational benefits attend a California community college for workforce training, to earn an associate degree or to work toward transferring to a four-year university.


http://californiacommunitycolleges.cccco.edu/PolicyInAction/KeyFacts.aspx Are those with the most talent for those jobs? Quit being generic. You'll have to dredge the bottom of the talent pool if you only want students willing to be punished before they get rewarded. The talented owe business and society nothing unless they get rewarded up front.

[The Sage of Main Street]

Any student in America that wants a college education can get one now.

Without a new government handout from Obama.

But it does require more effort for some than others. Living like a 15-year-old on part-time jobs just because the bosses mandate it. That's for people afraid to grow up, and the low character of America's leaders in business, politics, and society bears that out.

[Green Arrow]

Maybe so, but it's open season on Republicans with name calling, I could go though old posts and find hundreds of "names" for Bush, Palin, Romney, McCain, and dozens more, much more offensive in my opinion.

I was raised to believe that if you object to a behavior in others, you fight it by refusing to engage in it and setting an example.

[The Sage of Main Street]

It's come out for all Obama's intentions of "helping" the middle class, there's a bill he's ready to sign that cuts the tax break for the 529's people use to fund their children's education. That's right, you will now be taxed on your children's education fund. He's taking away the Bush Tax exemption for the middle class. Some help huh? A Children's Education Fund (529) again proves that all a diploma means is your Daddy buying you a job. That is as immoral, hypocritical, corrupt, and destructive of institutions as simony.

[Redrose]

I was raised to believe that if you object to a behavior in others, you fight it by refusing to engage in it and setting an example.


That is true and very commendable, but alas, I am human and occassionally I fall off my pedestal of virtue and say what I really feel.

[The Sage of Main Street]

I believe we need to change the way we look at education and education expense but I don't think this proposal is the way to do it. I remember when JFK called for America to meet the challenge of the Space Age with increased education in science & math.

We are falling behind the rest of the world today and I think we need a similar challenge issued today. Any country that pays students for their grades will lead the 21st Century and leave us in the dust. And that's where we belong if we continue allowing this class-biased indentured servitude to be a wolf ticket to undeserved success.

[The Sage of Main Street]

Naturally libs want free stuff from government.

Thats why only democrats stood a cheered when obumer announced it. And Capitalist parasites want a prospective employee to pay for his own training. It all comes down to the constantly drummed-in myth that the Plutes create our jobs and we should submit to any unfunded mandate they pressure us into in order to get the jobs they claim to own.

[The Sage of Main Street]

We need to totally rethink education in the US. Starting with K-12. It is largely a failure. The average student has to take remedial math and English at university. Knowledge, or rather access to knowledge is becoming decentralized. For motivated students classrooms may become something of the past.

Second, not every person is cut out for college. We need to focus on trade schools for many more students. Also community college is used for two things: (1) as a cheaper option and/or prep for university; (2) used for specific programs like nursing and paralegals. If we push all college students into community college for two years we will suck a lot of money out of our universities (different topic).

I am against providing higher education "for free." It would be for programs that required X number of years in a needed field / location to "pay back" the cost of the education. At least a 3.0 to get into and stay in a program. And a major in a needed field. An example? Sally wants to be a social worker. Sally gets free two years at community college and even finishes her two year degree at university. Then Sally works 4 years in the inner city of Philadelphia. With sufficient job performance she could go for a masters and Phd next- with a similar job requirement after. Just as college sports are free minor leagues for the pro teams, unpaid education is free job-training for the corporate parasites.

[nic34]

Because comparing Barack Obama to figures like Adolf Hitler trivializes the great evils that Hitler did.

It's also name calling that I thought the poster was opposed to..... :shocked:

[The Sage of Main Street]

Maybe so, but it's open season on Republicans with name calling, I could go though old posts and find hundreds of "names" for Bush, Palin, Romney, McCain, and dozens more, much more offensive in my opinion.

Like it or not, agree or disagree, the fact remains there are similarities with President Barack H. Obama's agenda and words and that of many of the world's former dictators, Hitler is just one. Under Godwin's Law, Hitler is the only one we can legally use to criticize the other side's leader.

[Redrose]

It's also name calling that I thought the poster was opposed to..... :shocked:


That is very true. In the SOU thread I asked Exotix to backoff on the name calling. It only got worse.
No one seemed to complain about it. Another thread refers to Obama as "Obamalini" a reference to Mussolini, another dictator. Again no complaints.

So frankly, I don't want to hear about civility and not calling names. It's allowed to run rampant on this forum.

[Peter1469]

I don't recall seeing any reports about this thread.

I came home from work, read the OP, went to the end of the seemingly endless and meaningless responses and posted my thoughts.

A reminder. (http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/36550-Report-feature)

[Polecat]

How much money are you all, personally, willing to put forth to pay for someone else's education?

Every cent a worthless turd like you has. That won't be enough so I am going to pass the hat amongst your inbred relatives too.

[GrassrootsConservative]

You really don't think k-12 is " free" do you?

I'd barely call it an "education" either. Although college is hardly an education these days too, more like a Liberal indoctrination cult. Ask Chloe , who's working on some useless degree in Environmentalwackoism or something to that extent. No wonder Obama wants to just give these "educations" away.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Every cent a worthless turd like you has. That won't be enough so I am going to pass the hat amongst your inbred relatives too.

Your personal attacks aside, thank you for proving the point I was trying to make with that post. People don't want to pay for it. They want somebody else to pay for it. My money, not yours. You spend your money how you want. Keep your greedy, dirty, Liberal paws off my money.

[Matty]

Every cent a worthless turd like you has. That won't be enough so I am going to pass the hat amongst your inbred relatives too.


Asshole!

[Chloe]

I'd barely call it an "education" either. Although college is hardly an education these days too, more like a Liberal indoctrination cult. Ask @Chloe (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=565) , who's working on some useless degree in Environmentalwackoism or something to that extent. No wonder Obama wants to just give these "educations" away.

Useless to you but meaningful and useful to me. It's not your degree to earn, it's mine to earn.

[PolWatch]

Every cent a worthless turd like you has. That won't be enough so I am going to pass the hat amongst your inbred relatives too.

Do not call members names...take personal issues to the PM function

[PolWatch]

Asshole!

No name calling

[GrassrootsConservative]

Useless to you but meaningful and useful to me. It's not your degree to earn, it's mine to earn.

Absolutely. But now the president wants me to pay for other people to get it. How would you like it if you had to pay for it for somebody else?

[Matty]

Your personal attacks aside, thank you for proving the point I was trying to make with that post. People don't want to pay for it. They want somebody else to pay for it. My money, not yours. You spend your money how you want. Keep your greedy, dirty, Liberal paws off my money.


Not it only a personal attack, name calling but an attack on family! Three for the price of one

[GrassrootsConservative]

Not it only a personal attack, name calling but an attack on family! Three for the price of one

It's cool. They're only typing out of ignorance. It doesn't faze me, but it is against the rules.

[Chloe]

Absolutely. But now the president wants me to pay for other people to get it. How would you like it if you had to pay for it for somebody else?

It depends on how much I guess. There's a lot of people that are smart enough and driven enough to earn a degree or to continue their education however they can't afford it or they can only afford one class a year or so and because of that they give up. Any little bit helps for those people that struggle, and so if I can help like that then I wouldn't look down on it personally.

[Bob]

Free health care
Free education
Free day care for working mothers
Affordable housing for all
Sustainable Food Supplies

Yes folks, a vote for Adolph Hitler is a vote for prosperity.

(Look it up, this was the Nazi Party's platform under Hitler.

And they wonder why I said Hitler was a socialist. LOL

[momsapplepie]

IMO there are degrees that aren't worth the piece of paper they are printed on, nor worth the cost to obtain them. They aren't going to help people get a job.

[Bob]

It depends on how much I guess. There's a lot of people that are smart enough and driven enough to earn a degree or to continue their education however they can't afford it or they can only afford one class a year or so and because of that they give up. Any little bit helps for those people that struggle, and so if I can help like that then I wouldn't look down on it personally.

This rewards strangers with your cash for efforts by them of which you have no idea.

[Chloe]

This rewards strangers with your cash for efforts by them of which you have no idea.

Thats ok. The same thing happens when you give to charity and other types of organizations.

[Matty]

Thats ok. The same thing happens when you give to charity and other types of organizations.


Forced charity isn't charity. It's theft!

[Bob]

Then they can just say their taxes went to pay for something else. It's not all going to one place, it's just all put in a big pot and then divvied up between everything in the sorta-budget.

I suspect you would refuse to disclose what you pay to the Feds in income taxes.

You of course can prove i am wrong.

[Bob]

Thats ok. The same thing happens when you give to charity and other types of organizations.

One is your decision. The other is law demanding you pay.

[momsapplepie]

I think someone is confusing Charity with forced income redistribution

[Bob]

And says Obama's plan is just political posturing.

I agree.

HE manages the operations in DC.

Community college is pad by local taxpayers. That is why it is called community college.

It is a scam by Obama. He wants to bully locals. Even if he gives out cash, it is not his cash to give out.

Obama has one job. To distribute funds handed to him by congress. The man acts like a narcissistic dictator.

One more thing,,, about his speech

How can he claim sanctions vs Cuba don't work, sanctions vs Iran don't work

Then brag to a room of people of educated standing that sanctions against Russia do work?

The man does not practice what he preaches.

[Bob]

I think someone is confusing Charity with forced income redistribution

Charity is never forced by a law.

[momsapplepie]

Charity is never forced by a law.
Well, don't ask a liberal the difference that's for sure!

[Chloe]

Forced charity isn't charity. It's theft!

Do you consider all taxes to be theft?

[Chloe]

One is your decision. The other is law demanding you pay.

Yes I know. My point wasn't addressing that fact though.

[Chloe]

Charity is never forced by a law.

I don't really consider free education, even free community college, to be charity. It's more of an investment in society's future than anything else in my opinion.

[momsapplepie]

If they were useful degrees, I would tend to agree with you. Otherwise you have thousands of people with degrees in women's studies working at Burger king. Oh! We already have that!

[Chloe]

If they were useful degrees, I would tend to agree with you. Otherwise you have thousands of people with degrees in women's studies working at Burger king. Oh! We already have that!

So you'd be ok with free community college if the student studied specific things?

[momsapplepie]

Business, engineering, Computer sciences, etc. Too many degrees are worthless to the real working world.

[Chloe]

Business, engineering, Computer sciences, etc. Too many degrees are worthless to the real working world.

Id be reasonably ok with that

[momsapplepie]

and no, I wouldn't be okay with anyone getting free college. Not off my dime. I would agree to a very low interest rate loan for specific studies, instead of the usury rate the government charges.

[Redrose]

So you'd be ok with free community college if the student studied specific things?

I do agree with that to a degree. Better guidance counseling for career choices. No one wants to spend years and money to get a degree in a field where employment possibilities are slim or don't pay well enough to compensate for all the effort and expense.

[Bob]

I don't really consider free education, even free community college, to be charity. It's more of an investment in society's future than anything else in my opinion.

When someone says society to me, I instantly suspect that socialism is what they mean.

It is not my duty nor obligation (made of my free will) to pay to advance others.

My hope is prices for education fall back to levels we had during the 1950's and that was not with steep taxes on the public. Somebody decided professors must be highly paid and so are the authorities managing the university system.

Do you call to rollback such prices to students?

[Bob]

Do you consider all taxes to be theft?

At the Federal level, it should shock you at how many taxes have not had the courts prove their merits.

I consider a lot of taxes to be theft.

When they take your cash from you, to pay for Bill and Sandy's kids to get an education, that is theft.

Why?

Because you did not have any say in it.

[Matty]

Do you consider all taxes to be theft?
It sure as hell ain't charity!

[Matty]

Has anyone heard of Pell grants? Why does Obummer want to double dip?

[Mac-7]

Has anyone heard of Pell grants? Why does Obummer want to double dip?

I don't like pell grants anymore than what obumer is proposing.

[Dr. Who]

I did not intend to disparage community colleges. My issue is by making them free for everyone, we will end up wasting the money when it could be used more effectively. I believe that students who really want the education are willing to work for it. I think that requiring a certain grade average for entrance to the programs is sensible. Requiring a set commitment for employment after graduation is a way to help solve other problems such as health care workers in rural areas.

Education is an investment in the nation's future. I would like to see our investment go to those who will use it effectively. I don't think just making community college free for everyone will accomplish that goal.
Here's a business idea that might work. The education is free so long as you pass the courses. If you don't, you are on the hook for the bill.

[Mac-7]

Here's a business idea that might work. The education is free so long as you pass the courses. If you don't, you are on the hook for the bill.

That means the teachers will pass everyone.

[IMPress Polly]

IMO the OP is what constitutes political posturing, not the president's proposal. (Try saying THAT five times fast! :wink:) Obama's proposal addresses most of the concerns that have been spoken to here. Only those students who maintain a certain grade point average, for example, would qualify. Furthermore, the cost to taxpayers would be absolutely minimal: on average about $6 billion a year, which is a drop in the bucket when compared to a federal budget of trillions and a military budget of more than $500 billion (many times what any other country spends on their armed forces). We CAN afford it! And while free community college would only be a first step toward addressing the larger problem of the cost of higher education in America, at least it would be doing something. By contrast, I don't see any specific alternate proposals being floated by the president's critics here. Criticizing without offering better alternatives is a little thing I like to call posing.

I can say that something like this might have made a difference in my own GPA during my early college years. Having to spend so much time not only going to school and hitting the books, but ALSO maintaining a full-time job AND somehow trying to have a life on the side was rather wearisome to the point that the quality of my work in some areas became a little neglected due to the sheer, overwhelming quantity of it I had to do. YOU try working 50 to 70 hour weeks while maintaining a full-time curriculum! (You know how I wound up in prostitution? Yeah, trying to pay for college and get some leisure time!) Most of the people criticizing Obama's proposal have probably never had to deal with problems like this because they come from earlier generations that didn't need a college education to enter the middle class.

Free education works too. We don't make grade school kids get full-time jobs on the side or pile on mountains of debt that it'll take them decades to pay off. Do you really think their grades would improve if we did? Sweden does free college all-around (not just free two-year community colleges) and they get pretty impressive results. And what's more, maybe if we subsidized some college tuition then more parents would be able to quit whining about stay-at-home adult kids because more collegiates would be able to move out on their own.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Furthermore, the cost to taxpayers would be absolutely minimal: on average about $6 billion a year

Do you know how much people's taxes would have to go up if we have to come up with $6,000,000,000 more every year? Look, Polly, thanks to the president I am already living paycheck to paycheck and when the tax from not having health insurance kicks in I have no idea what I'll do. I'm sure many others are in the same situation. If someone wants an education they can pay for it themselves. Keep your paws off my money, I barely have enough as it is. I'm happy where I am right now, too, working a job I enjoy with good coworkers and getting money and living a life of independence. Don't screw this up for me, Liberals. I'm absolutely serious about this. Donate to a grant or scholarship thing if you want, but don't mandate that I have to pay for someone else's education when I only have a high school diploma myself. Ok? Can you please just do that for me and quit trying to take my money and give it to somebody else?

If you can so easily do that, screw you. That's all I can say about it. This whole thing is pissing me off so much. Income tax and property tax is killing me enough. You know I spend more on keeping the government happy than I do on my own utilities and well-being? About 1/3 of all my expenditures is what the government strong-arm-robs from me EVERY DAY EVERY WEEK EVERY MONTH EVERY YEAR. If they didn't I would be able to save up some money and get off being paycheck to paycheck.

If you truly care about people, if you truly want this country to thrive, don't fucking keep supporting more taxes just to give something to somebody else. Because that money is coming from all of us and it doesn't make any sense.

Free isn't free. Free comes from you and me and if I don't want it then YOU are the only one that should pay for it since you support it. But leave me out of it and don't sic your tyrannical government on me to fund it.

[The Sage of Main Street]

I don't like pell grants anymore than what obumer is proposing. Based on need rather than talent? Again, compare this with the only thing colleges do right, even though they shouldn't be doing it at all: college sports. Athletes get scholarships regardless of need. The son of a billionaire and the son of a crackhead will get equal scholarship offers if they have equal ​talent.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Based on need rather than talent? Again, compare this with the only thing colleges do right, even though they shouldn't be doing it at all: college sports. Athletes get scholarships regardless of need. The son of a billionaire and the son of a crackhead will get equal scholarship offers if they have equal ​talent.

That's because the left only cares about money, and if they have the right athletes colleges can make a lot of it. We have a college with a football team here and they are building so many new buildings it's insane.

[kilgram]

How do you plan to pay colleges for their time and the materials needed to educate people? Nothing is free, schools aren't just going to educate people for free no matter what Obama promises. You people need to wake up.

And I haven't gone to college yet because I don't know what I want to do and don't want to get into debt. Please don't put me in debt making my taxes pay for some faggot's Liberal Arts degree or whatever.
Taxes that you already pay but instead of going to destroy other countries going to really help the citizens of your country.

[nic34]

Do you know how much people's taxes would have to go up if we have to come up with $6,000,000,000 more every year? Look, Polly, thanks to the president I am already living paycheck to paycheck and when the tax from not having health insurance kicks in I have no idea what I'll do. I'm sure many others are in the same situation. If someone wants an education they can pay for it themselves. Keep your paws off my money, I barely have enough as it is. I'm happy where I am right now, too, working a job I enjoy with good coworkers and getting money and living a life of independence. Don't screw this up for me, Liberals. I'm absolutely serious about this. Donate to a grant or scholarship thing if you want, but don't mandate that I have to pay for someone else's education when I only have a high school diploma myself. Ok? Can you please just do that for me and quit trying to take my money and give it to somebody else?

If you can so easily do that, screw you. That's all I can say about it. This whole thing is pissing me off so much. Income tax and property tax is killing me enough. You know I spend more on keeping the government happy than I do on my own utilities and well-being? About 1/3 of all my expenditures is what the government strong-arm-robs from me EVERY DAY EVERY WEEK EVERY MONTH EVERY YEAR. If they didn't I would be able to save up some money and get off being paycheck to paycheck.

If you truly care about people, if you truly want this country to thrive, don't $#@!ing keep supporting more taxes just to give something to somebody else. Because that money is coming from all of us and it doesn't make any sense.

Free isn't free. Free comes from you and me and if I don't want it then YOU are the only one that should pay for it since you support it. But leave me out of it and don't sic your tyrannical government on me to fund it.

If you don't like paying taxes, then don't.

Just don't cry to those who do when you have to get to work on your own road, grow your own food, drill for your own water, dispose of your own waste, make your own electricity.... etc, etc and so on....

See how it works?

[Matty]

IMO the OP is what constitutes political posturing, not the president's proposal. (Try saying THAT five times fast! :wink:) Obama's proposal addresses most of the concerns that have been spoken to here. Only those students who maintain a certain grade point average, for example, would qualify. Furthermore, the cost to taxpayers would be absolutely minimal: on average about $6 billion a year, which is a drop in the bucket when compared to a federal budget of trillions and a military budget of more than $500 billion (many times what any other country spends on their armed forces). We CAN afford it! And while free community college would only be a first step toward addressing the larger problem of the cost of higher education in America, at least it would be doing something. By contrast, I don't see any specific alternate proposals being floated by the president's critics here. Criticizing without offering better alternatives is a little thing I like to call posing.

I can say that something like this might have made a difference in my own GPA during my early college years. Having to spend so much time not only going to school and hitting the books, but ALSO maintaining a full-time job AND somehow trying to have a life on the side was rather wearisome to the point that the quality of my work in some areas became a little neglected due to the sheer, overwhelming quantity of it I had to do. YOU try working 50 to 70 hour weeks while maintaining a full-time curriculum! (You know how I wound up in prostitution? Yeah, trying to pay for college and get some leisure time!) Most of the people criticizing Obama's proposal have probably never had to deal with problems like this because they come from earlier generations that didn't need a college education to enter the middle class.

Free education works too. We don't make grade school kids get full-time jobs on the side or pile on mountains of debt that it'll take them decades to pay off. Do you really think their grades would improve if we did? Sweden does free college all-around (not just free two-year community colleges) and they get pretty impressive results. And what's more, maybe if we subsidized some college tuition then more parents would be able to quit whining about stay-at-home adult kids because more collegiates would be able to move out on their own.


Ong! I worked the night shift. Went to classes in the Am. Came home took a nap then went to evening classes. Back to work for the night shift and on and on and on and on and I graduated with a 3.9 GPA and I paid for all my books and tuition.

[Matty]

I am going to say it again. All you doozies who insist on free everything better be open to tax reform because 50% of us cannot and should not be required to meet your Christmas gift list of freebies!

[nic34]

Maybe if you hate taxes you all can move to Mexico or Chile where taxes are lower than here:

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1076452/thumbs/o-OECD-TAXES-570.jpg?6

[Matty]

Maybe if you hate taxes you all can move to Mexico or Chile where taxes are lower than here:

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1076452/thumbs/o-OECD-TAXES-570.jpg?6
Or you can get off your lazy ass and earn what you want instead of panhandling! There's a thought.

[kilgram]

Investment? I invested in education. I started at community college, over 5 years or so, while I worked factories and other jobs, I earned 2 years credit toward university. I appreciate the fact that when I turned 25 my parents helped pay tuition the next two years at university while I worked as janitor to pay for food, clothing, housing...and beer etc. I went on to graduate school because the university paid me first as a teaching assistant, later, when I returned to school at around 35, as a research assistant. The investment was worth it.

I doubt very much I would have appreciated it and go on as far as I did if I hadn't made the investment, if, say, government had. I went to what was considered a party school, and had it been free, I would have just partied. Not that I didn't, but I also worked and studied hard too.
Great mentality.

But far from reality. Very far.

[texan]

Maybe if you hate taxes you all can move to Mexico or Chile where taxes are lower than here:

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1076452/thumbs/o-OECD-TAXES-570.jpg?6


The problem with Cut & Paste tools is you can read a headline somewhere, select a big colorful graph and then make a snazzy statement.

Maybe if you understood the issue better we could have a smart conversation?

[Peter1469]

Don't write a check and adjust your W-4 so you do not get a tax refund. There is no other way for the IRS to collect.


Do you know how much people's taxes would have to go up if we have to come up with $6,000,000,000 more every year? Look, Polly, thanks to the president I am already living paycheck to paycheck and when the tax from not having health insurance kicks in I have no idea what I'll do. I'm sure many others are in the same situation. If someone wants an education they can pay for it themselves. Keep your paws off my money, I barely have enough as it is. I'm happy where I am right now, too, working a job I enjoy with good coworkers and getting money and living a life of independence. Don't screw this up for me, Liberals. I'm absolutely serious about this. Donate to a grant or scholarship thing if you want, but don't mandate that I have to pay for someone else's education when I only have a high school diploma myself. Ok? Can you please just do that for me and quit trying to take my money and give it to somebody else?

If you can so easily do that, screw you. That's all I can say about it. This whole thing is pissing me off so much. Income tax and property tax is killing me enough. You know I spend more on keeping the government happy than I do on my own utilities and well-being? About 1/3 of all my expenditures is what the government strong-arm-robs from me EVERY DAY EVERY WEEK EVERY MONTH EVERY YEAR. If they didn't I would be able to save up some money and get off being paycheck to paycheck.

If you truly care about people, if you truly want this country to thrive, don't fucking keep supporting more taxes just to give something to somebody else. Because that money is coming from all of us and it doesn't make any sense.

Free isn't free. Free comes from you and me and if I don't want it then YOU are the only one that should pay for it since you support it. But leave me out of it and don't sic your tyrannical government on me to fund it.

[Peter1469]

Now add in state income taxes, sales taxes, and all the various hidden taxes that will take that 24% closer to 50%.


Maybe if you hate taxes you all can move to Mexico or Chile where taxes are lower than here:

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1076452/thumbs/o-OECD-TAXES-570.jpg?6

[GrassrootsConservative]

If you don't like paying taxes, then don't.

Just don't cry to those who do when you have to get to work on your own road, grow your own food, drill for your own water, dispose of your own waste, make your own electricity.... etc, etc and so on....

See how it works?

How is that related to college and not having health insurance?

Don't tell me not to cry about the cost of something when all your leftist mooch criminal buddies want me to pay for their shit, hypocrite.

If I let my country pay for their college will they start paying for my taxes? If that is yes then they can have their "free" college, just as long as they pay for it.

[The Sage of Main Street]

If you don't like paying taxes, then don't.

Just don't cry to those who do when you have to get to work on your own road, grow your own food, drill for your own water, dispose of your own waste, make your own electricity.... etc, etc and so on....

See how it works? In the long run and perhaps even in the short run, replacing the obsolete aristocratic institution of the university with highly paid professional job training won't cost us a thing. Even now, with all the Diploma Dumbos forced on us by this dysfunctional work-without-pay system, each graduate contributes half a million dollars to society. Can you imagine how much the American public would net on this Blue Chip investment if success were based on talent rather than on sacrifice? Sacrifice has no merit; it is merely brown-nosing.