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Cigar
06-19-2012, 03:54 PM
A majority of voters agreed with President Obama’s decision to halt deportation of young undocumented immigrants, according to a new Bloomberg Poll out Tuesday. The President made a popular move with his announcement last Friday, with 64 percent of likely voters agreeing with the new policy, while just 30 percent disagreed.

Along party lines, only Republicans disagreed the move, with 56 percent of likely GOP voters opposed to the policy. Close to 9 in 10 Democrats (86 percent) liked the move. A large majority of independents, 66 percent, backed the decision, while just 26 percent opposed it.

Thus far, the new rule has been a political win for the president, while Mitt Romney – who has refused to say whether or not he would repeal the executive action if elected – is caught between his right-wing base and alienating Latino voters. Yesterday, a Latino Decisions poll showed that enthusiasm for Obama among Latino voters jumped significantly after the announcement.

The Bloomberg poll surveyed 734 likely voters and had a margin of error of +/- 3.6 percent.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/poll-majority-of-voters-agree-with-obamas-immigration

Peter1469
06-19-2012, 04:11 PM
Well we do live in a post-Constitutional society. It is not surprising that most Americans can't tell the difference between the executive and legislative branches.

wingrider
06-19-2012, 05:26 PM
A majority of voters agreed with President Obama’s decision to halt deportation of young undocumented immigrants, according to a new Bloomberg Poll out Tuesday. The President made a popular move with his announcement last Friday, with 64 percent of likely voters agreeing with the new policy, while just 30 percent disagreed.

Along party lines, only Republicans disagreed the move, with 56 percent of likely GOP voters opposed to the policy. Close to 9 in 10 Democrats (86 percent) liked the move. A large majority of independents, 66 percent, backed the decision, while just 26 percent opposed it.

Thus far, the new rule has been a political win for the president, while Mitt Romney – who has refused to say whether or not he would repeal the executive action if elected – is caught between his right-wing base and alienating Latino voters. Yesterday, a Latino Decisions poll showed that enthusiasm for Obama among Latino voters jumped significantly after the announcement.

The Bloomberg poll surveyed 734 likely voters and had a margin of error of +/- 3.6 percent.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/poll-majority-of-voters-agree-with-obamas-immigration

one it is a bloomberg poll.. two only 734 potential voters.. no report on the makeup of those polled ie how many were rep, dem indi,, also what stte was this taken in? was it a liberal state or conservative.. there are just so many unanswered questions here,

Cigar
06-19-2012, 05:35 PM
Well we do live in a post-Constitutional society. It is not surprising that most Americans can't tell the difference between the executive and legislative branches.

Wow .. that was easy. :)

Chris
06-19-2012, 05:38 PM
Well we do live in a post-Constitutional society. It is not surprising that most Americans can't tell the difference between the executive and legislative branches.

One could say, to make this dull topic interesting, that we have lived in a post-constitutional society since McCulloch v. Maryland (1819).

Cigar
06-19-2012, 05:41 PM
One could say, to make this dull topic interesting, that we have lived in a post-constitutional society since McCulloch v. Maryland (1819).

Well the one FACT we have all learned over the last 4 years ...

Republicans will do anything to prevent a VOTE on "their" Ideas. :)

Peter1469
06-19-2012, 05:48 PM
One could say, to make this dull topic interesting, that we have lived in a post-constitutional society since McCulloch v. Maryland (1819).

I would go with FDR's "Great Society."

Mainecoons
06-19-2012, 05:51 PM
I agree with it too. I just don't agree with HOW it was done. Fact is, for decades the U.S. winked at the border to get the cheap labor. Now when things aren't so hot, they want to toss people out. This is called bait and switch. But you either have a Constitution or you have a government of (fickle) men. We've all seen in history how the latter turns out.

Not worth the long term price. Do it right or not at all.

Calypso Jones
06-19-2012, 09:05 PM
dude. They only asked the 1.2 million at least that they're giving the amnesty to. That don't count.

Calypso Jones
06-19-2012, 09:14 PM
seriously? 734 polled? Yeah. you take that to the bank bud.

Goldie Locks
06-19-2012, 09:33 PM
The poll I participated in had it about 89% against and 11% for.

Archer0915
06-19-2012, 10:38 PM
I agree with Obama! But for every one he lets in to pay taxes and work send an American that is doing nothing OUT! Should mean that he loses more votes because many of the immigrants are conservative and most of the suckers are libs.

pjohns
06-19-2012, 11:18 PM
There are two separate questions at hand. They ought not be conflated.

One is a policy question: viz., should those who were brought to America, as children, be treated differently than those who willfully ignored American immigration law, in coming to this country?

It is certainly an interesting question. But it is really not the crux of this matter, it seems to me.

The second is a process question: viz., is it acceptable for the American president (whomever it might be) to act in an imperial (and imperious) manner, simply bypassing the Congress whenever it does not meekly accede to his preferences?

That, I believe, is really the more important question here.

And I would reply that it was not a good thing when Richard Nixon attempted it, some four decades ago; and it is not any better today...

wingrider
06-19-2012, 11:22 PM
There are two separate questions at hand. They ought not be conflated.

One is a policy question: viz., should those who were brought to America, as children, be treated differently than those who willfully ignored American immigration law, in coming to this country?

It is certainly an interesting question. But it is really not the crux of this matter, it seems to me.

The second is a process question: viz., is it acceptable for the American president (whomever it might be) to act in an imperial (and imperious) manner, simply bypassing the Congress whenever it does not meekly accede to his preferences?

That, I believe, is really the more important question here.

And I would reply that it was not a good thing when Richard Nixon attempted it, some four decades ago; and it is not any better today...
quoted for absolute truth.. thanks pjohn

sec
06-20-2012, 08:30 AM
A majority of voters agreed with President Obama’s decision to halt deportation of young undocumented immigrants, according to a new Bloomberg Poll out Tuesday. The President made a popular move with his announcement last Friday, with 64 percent of likely voters agreeing with the new policy, while just 30 percent disagreed.

Along party lines, only Republicans disagreed the move, with 56 percent of likely GOP voters opposed to the policy. Close to 9 in 10 Democrats (86 percent) liked the move. A large majority of independents, 66 percent, backed the decision, while just 26 percent opposed it.

Thus far, the new rule has been a political win for the president, while Mitt Romney – who has refused to say whether or not he would repeal the executive action if elected – is caught between his right-wing base and alienating Latino voters. Yesterday, a Latino Decisions poll showed that enthusiasm for Obama among Latino voters jumped significantly after the announcement.

The Bloomberg poll surveyed 734 likely voters and had a margin of error of +/- 3.6 percent.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/poll-majority-of-voters-agree-with-obamas-immigration


in order to be able to formulate an opinion, would someone please explain to me the difference between

an "undocumented immigrant" and an "illegal alien" ?

Cigar
06-20-2012, 08:33 AM
The poll I participated in had it about 89% against and 11% for.

Were you at a Family Reunion? :)

wingrider
06-20-2012, 04:27 PM
in order to be able to formulate an opinion, would someone please explain to me the difference between

an "undocumented immigrant" and an "illegal alien" ?
PC... one is correct,, the other is semantics

Mainecoons
06-20-2012, 06:03 PM
A pollster I trust a lot more because he has the best track record in the business:


June 20, 2012Poll Watch: Rasmussen Survey on Obama Immigration Policy (http://race42012.com/2012/06/20/poll-watch-rasmussen-survey-on-obama-immigration-policy/)
Rasmussen Poll on President Obama’s Immigration Policy (http://argojournal.blogspot.com/2012/06/poll-watch-rasmussen-r-survey-on-obama.html)
Is the federal government making too much of an effort to identify and deport illegal immigrants in this country, not enough of an effort, or about the right amount of effort?

Too much 16%
Not enough 54%
About right 25%
If adults enter the United States illegally, but don’t break any other laws, should they be considered as lawbreakers?

Yes, they should 64%
No, they should not 25%
Not sure 11%
If young people are brought here illegally by their parents, should they be considered as lawbreakers?

Yes, they should 28%
No, they should not 60%
Not sure 12%
Suppose someone was brought to the country illegally when they were under 16. If they have no criminal record, have graduated from high school or have served in the military, should they be allowed to apply for work permits or should they be deported?

Should be allowed to apply for work permits 71%
Should be deported 20%
Not sure 10%
National survey of 1,000 likely voters was conducted June 17-18, 2012. The margin of error is +/- 3 percentage points.
Inside the numbers:

While this is the thrust of the new immigration policy announced by the president last Friday, most Republicans (58%) support work permits for young illegal immigrants who meet these standards, along with 87% of Democrats and 68% of voters not affiliated with either of the major political parties.
Sixty-one percent (61%) of white voters say the government hasn’t done enough to identify and deport illegal immigrants, a view shared by only 29% of blacks and 34% of voters of other races.
Seventy-eight percent (78%) of Republicans and 56% of unaffiliated voters believe the federal government has not been aggressive enough in deporting illegal immigrants. Just 27% of Democrats agree. GOP voters and unaffiliateds are also far more likely than Democrats to think adult illegal immigrants should be considered lawbreakers even if they have broken no other laws.
But most unaffiliated voters (54%) and 81% of Democrats feel that young people brought here illegally by their parents should not be considered lawbreakers. Republicans agree but by a much narrower 46% to 38% margin.
Seventy-three percent (73%) of voters say they have followed recent news reports about the president’s new immigration policy, including 39% who have been following very closely.




Most people agree with the policy as do I. What I don't agree with is that the POTUS has the authority to unilaterally change laws. That is dictatorship.

Peter1469
06-20-2012, 06:41 PM
For polls, I like to watch Realclearpolitics. They take all of the major polls and come up with an average. Not scientific, but it balances out the biases.

Trinnity
06-20-2012, 10:59 PM
Rasmussen is the one I value. The rest are so-so.

pjohns
06-20-2012, 11:12 PM
For polls, I like to watch Realclearpolitics. They take all of the major polls and come up with an average. Not scientific, but it balances out the biases.

I, too, have RealClearPolitics bookmarked. It is a good source of general (political) information.

Still, I would be rather careful about using such averages in an uncritical manner.

For one thing, different polling organizations use different methodologies and poll different numbers of people, leading to different margins of error.

Moreover, the older polls should probably not be given as much weight as the newer ones, all other factors being equal.

And then there are the outliers. For instance, the state of Michigan (which usually goes Democratic in presidential elections) could be rather close this time. Four polls displayed in RCP show President Obama ahead there, by anywhere from one to four percentage points; two polls show Mitt Romney ahead, by two points; and one poll indicates a dead heat there. Yet the RCP average is +2.2 points for President Obama. Why so much? Well, because an eighth poll shows the president ahead by a whopping 13 points!

As Mark Twain wryly put it, when speaking of the utility of (some) averages: "If a man has one foot in a bucket of ice water and the other in a bucket of boiling water, he is, on average, very comfortable."

Peter1469
06-21-2012, 03:21 PM
Does RCP also work on polls to even out the bias results? They came close in the recent WI elections.

pjohns
06-21-2012, 04:54 PM
Does RCP also work on polls to even out the bias results?

If they do, I am not aware of it.

The good news, however, is that RCP does not have any apparent axe to grind. One never gets the feeling that the organization is merely cheerleading for this side or that side...

Peter1469
06-21-2012, 05:36 PM
I just recall that they got really close in many elections.

patrickt
06-27-2012, 09:43 AM
Well we do live in a post-Constitutional society. It is not surprising that most Americans can't tell the difference between the executive and legislative branches.

Wasn't it Joe Biden who said the three parts of government are executive, senate, and house?

patrickt
06-27-2012, 09:44 AM
By polling "voters" that means they're free to poll dead people, foreign nations, convicted pedophiles, and Democrats.

Cigar
06-27-2012, 09:47 AM
By polling "voters" that means they're free to poll dead people, foreign nations, convicted pedophiles, and Democrats.

Sound Exactly Like and Angry Republican :)

patrickt
06-27-2012, 11:35 AM
Sound Exactly Like and Angry Republican :)

There's a difference between disgusted and angry, Cigar. Are you hosting a party on Resurrection Day?

coolwalker
06-27-2012, 02:40 PM
How "exactly" were the questions worded? To whom were they presented: party affiliation, etc? Were they registered voters? Were they here legally? Has there been an empirical study been done on the honesty of the pollsters?

Cigar
06-27-2012, 02:45 PM
There's a difference between disgusted and angry, Cigar. Are you hosting a party on Resurrection Day?

Yep :)

Mainecoons
06-27-2012, 02:53 PM
I've seen some of that polling and I think it is accurate. The public is being fed the usual "feel good" propaganda from the drive by media. No one is looking at the implications in the competition for jobs and/or schooling. Our resident troll, who also pretends to be black, is particularly interesting since there are so many credible studies out there showing just how bad for blacks the open borders of the U.S. have been.

What's that black unemployment number again? Two times higher than that for others?

A real black man, not a pimply troll, lays it on the line here:

https://www.numbersusa.com/content/learn/issues/american-workers/congressional-testimony-how-mass-immigra.html


Good morning and thank you for the opportunity to address this panel.I have devoted much of my adult life to one of the most important challenges facing our country: How to help young black men build constructive lives as fathers and breadwinners. The size of the problem was outlined in a recent book published by the National Urban League entitled The State of Black America 2007: Portrait of the Black Male -- black men are much more likely to be unemployed than white men, more likely to be dropouts, in prison, in poverty, or dead.
There are many reasons for grim statistics like this, including the continuing effects of slavery and Jim Crow; the shift in the economy away from manufacturing; broken schools in our big cities; the glorification of self-destructive behavior by popular culture.

But one factor is too often ignored -- mass immigration.
There was little immigration when the struggle for civil rights began to achieve success in the 1950s and 1960s. In fact, the 1965 immigration law that started today's mass immigration was itself seen as a civil rights measure, intended to clean out rules that favored immigrants from some countries over others. Sen. Edward Kennedy, then, as now, chairman of the Senate immigration subcommittee, said "The bill will not flood our cities with immigrants. It will not cause American Workers to lose their jobs"
So much for predictions.
Since 1965, nearly 30 million legal immigrants have come here, plus millions of illegal aliens. The results have been devastating for those Americans -- black or white -- who compete for jobs with this immigrant tide. George Borjas of Harvard has shown that immigration has cut the wages of American men without a high school degree by $1,800 a year. Economists at Northeastern University have found that businesses are substituting immigrants for young American workers, especially for young black men. In fact, scholars estimate that immigration is the reason for one-third of the drop in employment among black men, and even some of the increase in incarceration.

Barack doesn't give a damn about blacks who are crowded out of the jobs market by runaway immigration, illegal or otherwise. He just cares about getting re-elected. Period. Anyone who doesn't understand this about him or about any of these other "bipartisan" career political hacks, is a complete fool.