Syria may have shot down a Turkish fighter

[Peter1469]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9349777/Syria-shoots-down-Turkish-fighter-jet.html

Syria has apparently apologized and is helping Turkey locate the crash site and pilots.

[Shoot the Goose]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9349777/Syria-shoots-down-Turkish-fighter-jet.html

Syria has apparently apologized and is helping Turkey locate the crash site and pilots.

I read this when it first came out, and I'm thinking ....

"We're sorry. We were aiming at something else but sneezed when we pulled the trigger ..... "

WTF ?

[Peter1469]

If it was a shoot down it was deliberate, but was probably made at the tactical level, not the strategic level.

[MMC]

Reports in Turkey initially stated that Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan claimed that Syria had apologised for shooting down the plane.
However, Mr Erdogan later told a news conference that he could not confirm reports that Syria had shot it down and had apologised.....snip~

Like he wouldn't know if Syria had apologized or not. :rollseyes: Seems those over in the ME just can't seem to get their stories straight 90% of the time. Does that tell you anything? Moreover.....why is Turkey a NATO country harboring Syrian Rebels who defected from Assad's Army and proping up a CP for the Colonel who is leading these Rebels.

[Peter1469]

What will be do if a shooting war starts between Turkey and Syria and Turkey asks that Article V of the NATO charter be invoked. (Done only one time before).

[Peter1469]

http://www.breitbart.com/system/wire/TX-PAR-FKF07

Syria now confirms the shoot down and its cooperation in locating the downed pilots.

[MMC]

What will be do if a shooting war starts between Turkey and Syria and Turkey asks that Article V of the NATO charter be invoked. (Done only one time before).

Dunno.....what do you think the Russian and Chinese response would be?

[Peter1469]

Russia would go apoplectic if NATO went big into Syria. It would confirm their worse fears about the West. Of course we could always back Turkey covertly and Russia would't respond with overt military force.

Russia is obsessed with NATO (read the US) encroaching into its periphery and its allies. That is the entire issue with ABM systems.

[Shoot the Goose]

What will be do if a shooting war starts between Turkey and Syria and Turkey asks that Article V of the NATO charter be invoked. (Done only one time before).

We give Turkey a raised eyebrow look, and they proceed to take care of it all on their own. Which they are capable of. While we supply them all the arms they ask for with no fanfare.

[MMC]

Russia also will do what they can to maintain that Club Med Port.

Moreover yesterday they released the CIA was arming Syrian Rebels with Small arms that they think are not associated with AQ. This was released on radio early in the morning. Clinton has admitted to giving the Free Syrian Army Rebels assistance. Thus admitting to US involvement into a Civil War.

How do you think this makes us look interferring in a direct conflict of another country and being the ones to escalate that conflict. As the Arab League isn't going to do anything. The Saudi by themselves won't bip or bop and none of the other Sunni Led Countries can muster up enough courage to make any moves themselves.

The Intel we had on the Sunni prior to this Admin taking over has been compromised. The Demos were completely wrong on their call of Syria prior to Obama being elected. Pelosi and Clinton were wrong. The policy we have followed is inaccurate. They are absolutely no threat to our National Security. In addition they were not targeting American Buisnesses and tourists. Nor are they out hunting down Christians and killing them.

There is no mistaken civilization jihad.....aka-stealth jihad.....aka Gradualism within Democracy. The Sunni and Suad are incrementally advancing Islamist causes in which encompasses a cost-benefit analysis. Our people have been wrong since day one with the strategy invoked.

Just like with the MB.....intrepreting restraint as proof of them being moderate has proven to be the wrong call and if we do not change this up we will end up dealing with a threat that always was there, but will be more difficult to overcome as they will have infiltrated and manipulated our own laws as well as that of International law.

[Shoot the Goose]

Turkey can have its way with Syria while leaving that port alone. Russia cannot reasonably escalate itself so as to be actively killing the anti-Assad folks, as Syria's location does not lend itself to such.

Syria just pissed off the wrong folks. Now they have to kiss ass to the Turks.

Israel is loving every minute.

[Trinnity]

Oh, I'll just bet they are.

[Peter1469]

The Turks have not made any harsh or warlike responses yet. I am not sure that Syria does have to kiss their butt.

[Goldie Locks]

I read this when it first came out, and I'm thinking ....

"We're sorry. We were aiming at something else but sneezed when we pulled the trigger ..... "

WTF ?


Kind of like in tennis when the ball dribbles over the net and the other player apologizes...LOL

[MMC]

How do you think this makes us look interferring in a direct conflict of another country and being the ones to escalate that conflict. As the Arab League isn't going to do anything. The Saudi by themselves won't bip or bop and none of the other Sunni Led Countries can muster up enough courage to make any moves themselves.

There is no mistaken civilization jihad.....aka-stealth jihad.....aka Gradualism within Democracy. The Sunni and Suad are incrementally advancing Islamist causes in which encompasses a cost-benefit analysis. Our people have been wrong since day one with the strategy invoked.

I doubt Turkey will make any move other than what they are doing now. Allowing the Syrian Rebel Colonel to hide out in their Country. If anything Assad should be telling Turkey to hand over the traitor to his Side and His Army.

Moreover this morning they have discovered a mass killing which they believe was done by one of the Rebel Groups. I am willing to Bet the bulk of them are Christians and or supporters. They do know it wasn't done by Assad.

So just how does this make our SOS look when she has been caught in lies. Tries to comes down on Assad for massacring people. But then has the Rebels go out and committ the same acts. Just how does Clinton defend the Rebels killing Christians? How does she justify the killing of innocent children and women by the Sunni Rebels? All because they are afraid to take Assad on. How does she justify the grab for power when clearly it was not for Democracy's Sake but that for one's own personal gain?

[MMC]

ANKARA/BEIRUT (Reuters) - Turkey promised on Saturday to do "whatever necessary" in response to Syria's shooting-down of a Turkish fighter, but did not immediately contest an assertion by Damascus that the jet had been in its airspace at the time.
The downing of the aircraft, at a point close to the sea borders of both countries, provided a demonstration of Syria's formidable Russian-supplied air defenses; one of the many reasons for Western qualms about any military intervention to halt bloodshed in the country.

"The navies of the two countries have established contact. Syrian naval vessels are participating along with the Turkish side in the search operation for the missing pilots," it said.

Turkey will present its final stance after the incident has been fully brought to light and decisively take the necessary steps," said a statement from Erdogan's office.
However, Khashan said he did not expect a harsh military reaction from Turkey. "It is under a tight leash by the United States. They don't want to start a war tomorrow.".....snip~

http://news.yahoo.com/turkey-weighs-response-syria-downs-turkish-jet-100218172.html
Reuters – 1 hr 30 mins ago<<<<<More here,way more!

[Trinnity]

There is no mistaken civilization jihad.....aka-stealth jihad.....aka Gradualism within Democracy. The Sunni and Suad are incrementally advancing Islamist causes in which encompasses a cost-benefit analysis. Our people have been wrong since day one with the strategy invoked.
..............This ^ . Soft Jihad is the biggest threat we face. The quest for a Pan-Islamic Empire has been going on for centuries and this is a continuation. NEVER underestimate the commitment Islam has to take over everything and everyone. Profound truth- face it.

[Sultan]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9349777/Syria-shoots-down-Turkish-fighter-jet.html

Syria has apparently apologized and is helping Turkey locate the crash site and pilots.

Seems that Turkish plane violated Syrian air space.

Its no big deal.

Israel violates Lebanese air space at least 3 times every week.

NATO wont do anything. They can't unless they are going to address the Lebanese situation too.

[Trinnity]

I'll be surprised if Turkey doesn't at least make some effort to show it's displeasure over this.

[Peter1469]

Seems that Turkish plane violated Syrian air space.

Its no big deal.

Israel violates Lebanese air space at least 3 times every week.

NATO wont do anything. They can't unless they are going to address the Lebanese situation too.

From what I read, it seems like it is very hard for pilots to not violate airspace when flying along a coast line. I still have not heard whether the pilots survived or not.

[MMC]

Turkey has called a meeting with NATO.....but only for Consultation. NATO won't do anything and even if they did. They would still not have to do anything over the Lebanese Situation. The ME and specifically Arabs still thinks there is some World Court that is going to save the day for them. Even Kashan states Turkey will not pursue a military course of action over this. All Turkey will do is check in with Clinton to see how much more they can get to the Colonel inside Turkey.

Think that Colonel will ever lead a battle and lead by example? If Assad can get to the Colonel inside Turkey. Then the Saud and Sunni's main trump card will have been expended. Leaving them to tuck tail and run.

This morning they were still looking for the pilots. But they do have some of the wreckage.

[Peter1469]

One thing is likely: diplomats from NATO are hard at work trying to get Turkey to not invoke Article V of the NATO charter. That has only been done one time before.

[MMC]

One thing is likely: diplomats from NATO are hard at work trying to get Turkey to not invoke Article V of the NATO charter. That has only been done one time before.

Turkey has not denied that their plane might have crossed into Syrian Airspace. This Morning Syria has stated that the Turkish Plane did in fact fly into Syrian Airspace. But that it was accidental mishap on the shoot down. They were assisting the Turks with some of their Naval Ships searching for the Pilots.

[Peter1469]

A Syrian pilot defected not long before; the Syrian's may have had that on their mind too.

[MMC]

A Syrian pilot defected not long before; the Syrian's may have had that on their mind too.


Yeah the one to Jordan. Also Pete did you see what I had up with the Israelis bombing Hamas after taking 6days straight of rocket fire from Hamas and the Palestinians? This was after Egypt brokered the truce last Wednesday.

[Peter1469]

I saw that. I thought that I responded, but I may be thinking about something else.

[MMC]

I saw that. I thought that I responded, but I may be thinking about something else.


No you didn't.....I think it was the Pakistan one I had up that ya did. Check it out.....you were right about Israel showing what it is to have military effectiveness. Still Israel has called for the South to be on alert and stay close to shelters. I don't think they can trust that Egyptian brokered truce at all.

[Peter1469]

No you didn't.....I think it was the Pakistan one I had up that ya did. Check it out.....you were right about Israel showing what it is to have military effectiveness. Still Israel has called for the South to be on alert and stay close to shelters. I don't think they can trust that Egyptian brokered truce at all.

I was stationed in the Sinai in 1988. I got to meet the commander the the Israeli southern region. He was a reserve major! In the US it would have been an active duty general officer billet. He asked me if I thought that MSR 1 (the highway that ran along the coast of the Sinai) would support the weight of Israeli tanks. I replied that I was airborne infantry and had no opinion on the matter. He then asked what we would do should Israel move tanks passed our guard post- my post was on the boarder. I said that we would act as road guides and then report to higher.

[Carygrant]

You might wish to look at this incident with fresh interest given the comments and information contained in this release .
Possibly the Russians knew exactly what was happening in real time .


Sun June 24, 2012

Newly-supplied Russian Pantsyr-1 anti-air missile used to down Turkish warplane

Russian Pantsyr-1 air defense missile in Syria
To ambush the Turkish Air Force F-4 Super Phantom Friday, June 22, over Latakia Syria used Russian-made self-propelled medium range anti-air Pantsyr-1 missiles recently supplied by Moscow (not as first reported anti-air Buk-M2 missiles). This weapon can down aircraft flying at altitudes up to 12 kilometers and cruise missiles. The unit responsible for the ambush was the 73rd brigade of the Syrian army’s 26th Air Defense Division.
Since the sophisticated weapons were delivered to the Assad regime in recent weeks, it must be assumed that local missile crews had not finished training in their use and would have had to rely on help from their Russian instructors to fire one.
This would be the first instance in the 15-month Syrian uprising of an advanced Russian-supplied weapon hitting the military target of a NATO member. Hence the comment from Washington by US State Department spokesperson Victoria Nuland who said: “We’ve seen the reports… We have obviously been in contact with our Turkish ally…. To my knowledge, they haven’t raised this at NATO at this point.”
Ankara has repeatedly threatened to ask NATO to invoke the pact’s article 5 obligating members to come to the aid of a fellow member coming under attack. In this case, however, the Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan’s rhetoric was relatively restrained. He vowed to “determinedly take necessary steps” in response “once the incident is fully clarified,” leaving Ankara’s response deliberately vague.
President Abdullah Gul spoke out more strongly: “It is impossible to ignore our fighter jet being shot down by Syria,” he said after Damascus admitted to shooting down the plane, claiming its air defenses acted according to standard procedure before realizing it was a Turkish air force jet. Both are searching for the two missing pilots.
Military experts add: This was also the first time in five years any weapons system with Israeli manufacturing input had faced a Russian weapon acquired by Syria.
The first time was September 6, 2007, when Israeli fighter-bombers demolished the Iranian-North Korean-built nuclear reactor in the northern Syrian town of Al-Kibar. Airspace over the reactor was guarded by Russian Pantsyr-S1 anti-air missiles. Israeli bombers got through by disabling the Russian missiles’ radar so that Damascus never realized its reactor was being bombed until it had been smashed and Israeli bombers were home.
Five years later, Turkey has lost a Super Phantom which had undergone partial upgrading by the Israeli Aerospace Industry. However, two years ago, Ankara broke off its security and military ties with Jerusalem after a clash at sea between Turkish Mavi Marmara and Israel troops wich intercepted the vessel on its way to break Israel’s Gaza blockade, leaving nine Turkish pro-Palestinian activists dead.
By severing those ties, the Erdogan government left Israel’s improvements unfinished and the Turkish air force’s F-4 short of counter-measures for evading or attacking the latest Russian-made air defense weapons fired by Syria.
According to,military sources waylaying a Turkish military plane over the sea was therefore a simple matter for the new Pantsyr-1.
Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan admitted Saturday that the jet was shot down over the Mediterranean around 13 kilometers west of the Syrian port of Latakia. He did not explain what a Turkish bomber fighter was doing over Syrian territorial waters, but the suggestion, which Western military sources have confirmed, was that Turkish military jets have lately been carrying out almost daily reconnaissance flights over the Syrian coast. Moscow and Damascus apparently decided it was time to stop the missions which among other things spied on the Russian arms supplies transiting Russian bases at the Syrian ports of Tartus and Latakia.


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[MMC]

Turkey has called a meeting with NATO.....but it is not to invoke Article 5. Which is why they wanted the consultation. As they knew their plane was over Syrian Air Space.

Moreover there are some that believe the Russians gave the Israelis the Codes to disable the defense around that reactor.

[moon]

Turkey has called a meeting with NATO.....but it is not to invoke Article 5. Which is why they wanted the consultation. As they knew their plane was over Syrian Air Space.

Moreover there are some that believe the Russians gave the Israelis the Codes to disable the defense around that reactor.

What ' reactor ' are you talking about ? *

[URF8]

Turkey shouldn't be part of NATO.

[Carygrant]

Turkey shouldn't be part of NATO.



Is that for Dietary reasons ?