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Chris
03-10-2015, 06:40 PM
I agree with Robert Reich as to what the problem of Most Americans have no influence at all (http://www.salon.com/2015/03/10/robert_reich_most_americans_have_no_influence_at_a ll_partner/), but disagree as to the cause and, therefore the solution.


The U.S. economy is picking up steam but most Americans aren’t feeling it. By contrast, most European economies are still in bad shape, but most Europeans are doing relatively well.

What’s behind this? Two big facts.

First, American corporations exert far more political influence in the United States than their counterparts exert in their own countries.

In fact, most Americans have no influence at all. That’s the conclusion of Professors Martin Gilens of Princeton and Benjamin Page of Northwestern University, who analyzed 1,799 policy issues — and found that “the preferences of the average American appear to have only a miniscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy.”

Instead, American lawmakers respond to the demands of wealthy individuals (typically corporate executives and Wall Street moguls) and of big corporations – those with the most lobbying prowess and deepest pockets to bankroll campaigns.

The second fact is most big American corporations have no particular allegiance to America. They don’t want Americans to have better wages. Their only allegiance and responsibility to their shareholders — which often requires lower wages to fuel larger profits and higher share prices.

When GM went public again in 2010, it boasted of making 43 percent of its cars in place where labor is less than $15 an hour, while in North America it could now pay “lower-tiered” wages and benefits for new employees.

American corporations shift their profits around the world wherever they pay the lowest taxes. Some are even morphing into foreign corporations.

As an Apple executive told The New York Times, “We don’t have an obligation to solve America’s problems.”

I’m not blaming American corporations. They’re in business to make profits and maximize their share prices, not to serve America....

But, if you read on, he does blame corporations.

Not the government.


Franz Oppenheimer, The State, 1919, wrote "There are two fundamentally opposed means whereby man, requiring sustenance, is impelled to obtain the necessary means for satisfying his desires. These are work and robbery, one’s own labor and the forcible appropriation of the labor of others… I propose in the following discussion to call one’s own labor and the equivalent exchange of one’s own labor for the labor of others, the “economic means” for the satisfaction of needs, while the unrequited appropriation of the labor of others will be called the “political means.”"

The political means is simply easier than work, so if the political means is made available, it makes sense, the incentive is there to rent seek and use political means over the economic.

This is not to say that corporations are not to blame, they are. But government is to blame as well, and to blame for creating the political means.

Reich wants to change corporations, limit their rent seeking. But without changing government, more will come to seek political favors.

I want to change government. Remove the political means, and there will be no political favors to seek.

Peter1469
03-10-2015, 06:48 PM
Government won't go anywhere until the economy crashes. That is coming. Stay tuned.

Chris
03-10-2015, 06:50 PM
It wasn't an argument for abolishing government but for changing it for the better.

Cigar
03-10-2015, 07:18 PM
I have influence, all I have to do is write the world Race, and watch them dance :grin:

Captain Obvious
03-10-2015, 07:21 PM
That article didn't influence me much

Chris
03-10-2015, 07:31 PM
That article didn't influence me much

Well, Reich is well-respected on the left.

Captain Obvious
03-10-2015, 07:40 PM
Well, Reich is well-respected on the left.

http://i.imgur.com/YwgbT16.gif

Green Arrow
03-11-2015, 04:00 AM
Solely focusing on corporations as the problem is no more correct than solely focusing on government as the problem. Both are equally problematic and any solution has to take into account both entities.

Common
03-11-2015, 04:04 AM
Solely focusing on corporations as the problem is no more correct than solely focusing on government as the problem. Both are equally problematic and any solution has to take into account both entities.

You dont think corporations have to much power over govt, especially since the Citizens united decsion. Govt runs by who gives the most money and that certainly is corporations and the 2%

No one denies the govt has lots of problems and does not do everything right, but most of govt is bought and paid for and it isnt by the working people, therefore reich is right americans individually have no power out side of a bought vote

Green Arrow
03-11-2015, 04:05 AM
You dont think corporations have to much power over govt, especially since the Citizens united decsion. Govt runs by who gives the most money and that certainly is corporations and the 2%

No one denies the govt has lots of problems and does not do everything right, but most of govt is bought and paid for and it isnt by the working people, therefore reich is right americans individually have no power out side of a bought vote

If I say both corporations and the government are equally problematic, then yes, I do think corporations have too much power over government.

Chris
03-11-2015, 06:38 AM
Corporations are given too much influence over government.

Ransom
03-11-2015, 07:39 AM
Corporations are given too much influence over government.

Who gives this to them their customers who purchase their products or the Constituents who vote their representatives in?

Again, the question that is never answered. How many corporate products are you using to write that statement and post it here?

Common Sense
03-11-2015, 07:42 AM
It's the best government money can buy...

Unless you have a super PAC...you're SOL.

Ransom
03-11-2015, 07:46 AM
Most Americans having no influence...and it auto turns into an anti-corporate discussion while they all use their Verizon Wireless, their Apple or Microsoft personal device, their App, this server. Most Americans take their standard of living for granted and meantime bash the crud out of those who provide it. The car sitting in your driveway, the home you live in, the food stuffs in your fridge, the many household items from lawnmower to your tulip gardens.

Union influence? Not a word. Government influence while Obama tries to make unilateral treaties or immigration rules by executive fiat or the EPA or FDA or FCC or homeland Security, the NSA, the CIA....do most Americans have a say whether we bomb in Syria or Iraq? Influence trade deals with China? Have a say in the Iranian nuclear talks? And yet you nearly all hero your President making all these partisan all by himself maneuvers.....but your whining about no influence immediately jumps to corporations.....that you're ALL f'n using the products of?

Do I about got that f'n right?

Chris
03-11-2015, 08:40 AM
Who gives this to them their customers who purchase their products or the Constituents who vote their representatives in?

Again, the question that is never answered. How many corporate products are you using to write that statement and post it here?


Consumers give corporations this influence? That makes no sense. How do consumers purchasing products cause government to give corporations influence to the point consumers have none?

Constituents who vote government in, you mean like you? That is true, you keep believing the solution is more government when that only creates more corporate influence. By voting you support and sanction that.

Your question is not answered because it's irrelevant.

Chris
03-11-2015, 08:41 AM
It's the best government money can buy...

Unless you have a super PAC...you're SOL.


BINGO!

Why would people vote for a government that sells them out?

Chris
03-11-2015, 08:43 AM
Most Americans having no influence...and it auto turns into an anti-corporate discussion while they all use their Verizon Wireless, their Apple or Microsoft personal device, their App, this server. Most Americans take their standard of living for granted and meantime bash the crud out of those who provide it. The car sitting in your driveway, the home you live in, the food stuffs in your fridge, the many household items from lawnmower to your tulip gardens.

Union influence? Not a word. Government influence while Obama tries to make unilateral treaties or immigration rules by executive fiat or the EPA or FDA or FCC or homeland Security, the NSA, the CIA....do most Americans have a say whether we bomb in Syria or Iraq? Influence trade deals with China? Have a say in the Iranian nuclear talks? And yet you nearly all hero your President making all these partisan all by himself maneuvers.....but your whining about no influence immediately jumps to corporations.....that you're ALL f'n using the products of?

Do I about got that f'n right?



True, Reich argued the populist view against corporations. By blaming unions you're making the same argument Reich makes. Thus there's no difference here between the Democratic left and the Republican right.

My argument is against the government you support and sanction.