The toxicity of Clinton nostalgia

[Max Rockatansky]

A good summation of the anchors which will drag down Hillary Clinton's run of POTUS.


http://theweek.com/articles/543403/toxicity-clinton-nostalgia
......Two very real scandals have emerged for Hillary Clinton over the past month. One involves the Clinton Foundation, which was supposed to have had a policy of rejecting donations from foreign governments while Mrs. Clinton served as secretary of State. And yet, millions poured into the foundation's coffers from governments such as Saudi Arabia, Oman, Bahrain, and Kuwait (http://hotair.com/archives/2015/02/26/clinton-foundation-received-donations-from-foreign-governments-while-hillary-was-secretary-of-state/) — all while she represented the U.S. government in relations to them.

The second scandal involves Clinton's use of private email instead of official State Department email systems, which not only feature the best security for diplomatic correspondence, but also comply with the Federal Records Act. Only more than a year after leaving her post did Clinton share any of her emails with the State Department for the purposes of compliance with the FRA, and even then, only those emails selected by her own aides. During her tenure at State and afterward, Clinton avoided FOIA requests from the media and demands from Congress for her email communications, largely by hiding the fact that she had never created an official email account at State.

National Journal's Ron Fournier argues that the two scandals are connected into "one big, hairy deal (http://www.nationaljournal.com/twenty-sixteen/emails-may-be-a-key-to-addressing-pay-to-play-whispers-at-clinton-foundation-20150308)." And indeed, at least some of the desire to hide Clinton's emails seems to spring from rumors that the foreign-government donations were solicited by Hillary and/or her aides while serving as secretary of State. "The emails are a related but secondary scandal," a person described by Fournier as "a Clinton loyalist and credible source" told him. "Follow the foundation money."

There's no smoking gun yet — but there does seem to be some real overlap between Clinton's team at the State Department and the foundation's fundraising efforts. For instance: Dennis Cheng ran the campaign finance efforts for Clinton during her 2006 re-election campaign and for her 2007-8 presidential run, a period of three years. He then served as Deputy Chief of Protocol (http://www.state.gov/s/cpr/137476.htm) to Secretary Clinton from 2009-2011. When he left the State Department, Cheng returned to the Clinton Foundation, which he just left last month to return to his old campaign-finance role for Clinton in the 2016 cycle (http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/09/politics/dennis-cheng-clinton-foundation-2016/index.html). In between, though, Cheng did some heavy lifting for the Clinton Foundation (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/email-probe-expands-to-clinton-foundation-fundraiser-hillary-aide/article/2561227). Cheng oversaw the raising of more than $248 million during that period, including from foreign governments. It's no surprise that the Foundation for Accountability and Civic Trust (http://factdc.org/) has filed a FOIA request demanding all correspondence between Cheng and the Clinton Foundation.

All of a sudden, Clinton nostalgia has become a little too real for Team Hillary's comfort. We have a potential campaign-finance scandal involving deliberate foreign influence, an echo of 1996's controversy with Chinese cash coming into the coffers of the DNC (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/campfin/stories/execsumm030698.htm). The Clintons then tried to argue that firewalls existed between their campaign and the DNC, a claim a Senate report found "untenable."

With these new scandals still dominating headlines, the Clintons called on blasts from the past like Lanny Davis and James Carville to go on offense over the weekend, dismissing the email scandal as nothing but "right-wing talking points." On Fox News Sudnay, Davis insisted that Clinton not only didn't violate the law but actually "did nothing wrong." He spun the belated and partial release by Clinton as evidence of her transparency. An exasperated Chris Wallace finally asked Davis, "Do you ever get tired of cleaning up after the Clintons?".....

[Reason10]

What people don't understand is that nobody likes Hillary. Maybe the most important requirement for the job is LIKEABILITY.

Hillary just married a likeable guy. She ISN'T likeable. She's a Midol-deprived BEYOTCH. She's not even very smart.

Nobody wants THIS
http://i1.cpcache.com/product_zoom/108827889/nurse_hillary_ratched_organic_cotton_tee.jpg?heigh t=250&width=250&padToSquare=true
in the White House.

[Bo-4]

So Captain Ed found another dozen Clinton scandals? Cool, he's been doing that his entire career so good luck! :D

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/437/846/a5c.jpg

[Max Rockatansky]

Great pic of "Nurse Ratched"!

[Max Rockatansky]

So Captain Ed found another dozen Clinton scandals? Cool, he's been doing that his entire career so good luck! :D

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/437/846/a5c.jpg

Yes, it is. Not to the extent some on the Right want it to be, but, like most scandals, it's not the event or crime itself that is the problem, but the cover-up that followed. In this case, the hands-on spin-doctoring of a tragedy by the Obama WH, with the help of the Secretary of State, to down play this as a well planned terrorist attack by al-Qaeda operatives.

[Bo-4]

Yes, it is. Not to the extent some on the Right want it to be, but, like most scandals, it's not the event or crime itself that is the problem, but the cover-up that followed. In this case, the hands-on spin-doctoring of a tragedy by the Obama WH, with the help of the Secretary of State, to down play this as a well planned terrorist attack by al-Qaeda operatives.

No it's not. Ben Ghazi is the biggest dry hole in scandal history.. but you and Morrissey keep on drillin'. ;-)

[Max Rockatansky]

No it's not. Ben Ghazi is the biggest dry hole in scandal history.. but you and Morrissey keep on drillin'. ;-)

Nice denial. Keep using the "What difference does it make" line.

[Bo-4]

Nice denial. Keep using the "What difference does it make" line.

Seriously Max. When it comes to Ben Ghazi there's nothing there. Why not take the Republican led Senate Intelligence Committee at their word?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/23/world/middleeast/republican-led-benghazi-inquiry-largely-backs-administration.html

[Max Rockatansky]

Seriously Max. When it comes to Ben Ghazi there's nothing there. Why not take the Republican led Senate Intelligence Committee at their word?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/23/world/middleeast/republican-led-benghazi-inquiry-largely-backs-administration.html

Nothing there? Dude, 4 Americans were murdered, our Consulate and Annex were overrun and the Obama administration blamed it on a spontaneous protest over a video in the 7 weeks leading to a tight election.

Again, while I don't see the conspiracy bullshit that the RWNJs are selling, I definitely see spin-doctoring just like you appear to be doing.

[Bo-4]

Nothing there? Dude, 4 Americans were murdered, our Consulate and Annex were overrun and the Obama administration blamed it on a spontaneous protest over a video in the 7 weeks leading to a tight election.

Again, while I don't see the conspiracy bullshit that the RWNJs are selling, I definitely see spin-doctoring just like you appear to be doing.

Nobody knew who attacked and why initially. There were massive demonstrations over the video throughout the M.E. at the time. It was a plausible possibility.

If the Republican led Senate Intelligence Committee report wasn't good enough, then i can't help you.

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnnRdeTIQAAnstJ.png:large

[Max Rockatansky]

Nobody knew who attacked and why initially. There were massive demonstrations over the video throughout the M.E. at the time. It was a plausible possibility. ....
You're contradicting yourself.....or, at least, making the Obama adiminstration look incompetent.

IF "nobody knew who attacked or why initially", why were they pushing the video demonstration story as fact?

It couldn't possibly be for political reasons, could it Bo-4?

[PolWatch]

Whitewater/Foster/travel-gate/Monica/Bill/Benghazi/....and you wonder why no one pays any attention to e-mails? She may be the most successful crook in the nation but the right has spent so much time & $$$ trying to smear her, no one believes or listens to anything said about her now. The little boy who cried 'wolf' once too often....

[Bo-4]

You're contradicting yourself.....or, at least, making the Obama adiminstration look incompetent.

IF "nobody knew who attacked or why initially", why were they pushing the video demonstration story as fact?

It couldn't possibly be for political reasons, could it @Bo-4 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1297)?

If they'd said nothing and offered no theories, you guys would have pitched a fit.

Keep drilling, but i can only imagine the caterwauling that would have ensued if we'd spent years and millions trying to turn each of these into some sort of scandal. :rolleyes:

https://gkrouse.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/11089_615017145190467_1147559393_n.png?w=640&h=340

[Max Rockatansky]

Whitewater/Foster/travel-gate/Monica/Bill/Benghazi/....and you wonder why no one pays any attention to e-mails? She may be the most successful crook in the nation but the right has spent so much time & $$$ trying to smear her, no one believes or listens to anything said about her now. The little boy who cried 'wolf' once too often....
Agreed. While I believe HRC, and Bill, deserve the heat they've received for their multiple duplicitous actions, the RW has certainly oversold their argument. Benghazi is a classic example of the Right overselling their case.

I completely agree with your boy-who-called-Wolf example.

[Bo-4]

Agreed. While I believe HRC, and Bill, deserve the heat they've received for their multiple duplicitous actions, the RW has certainly oversold their argument. Benghazi is a classic example of the Right overselling their case.

I completely agree with your boy-who-called-Wolf example.

Wow, who are you and what have you done with our Max? ;-)

[Bo-4]

Whitewater/Foster/travel-gate/Monica/Bill/Benghazi/....and you wonder why no one pays any attention to e-mails? She may be the most successful crook in the nation but the right has spent so much time & $$$ trying to smear her, no one believes or listens to anything said about her now. The little boy who cried 'wolf' once too often....

Perfect analogy.

http://thedailybanter.com/2014/06/conservative-boys-cried-wolf-fake-scandal-obsession-right-marches/

[Max Rockatansky]

If they'd said nothing and offered no theories, you guys would have pitched a fit. ...
"you guys"? You mean Americans concerned about how our government handles itself? Americans concerned about corruption and political opportunism? Those guys? Yes, I'm one of them.

Secondly, they did say something. Why the dodge?

September 12th, the day after the attack: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/13/opinion/murder-in-benghazi.html

On Wednesday, the Obama administration said it appeared that an organized group armed with mortars and rocket-propelled grenades had exploited a protest over an anti-Muslim video to unleash the attack. Some news reports suggested Al Qaeda may have been responsible. American officials noted the contrast with Egypt, where unarmed protesters, decrying the same video, spontaneously stormed the Embassy perimeter and tore down a flag but did little other damage.

Libya’s shaky new government will need American support to bring the killers to justice. The origins of the video (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/13/world/middleeast/origins-of-provocative-video-shrouded.html), which mocks the Prophet Muhammad, are not clear. There is considerable speculation about who even produced the film, which largely went unnoticed until it was promoted on the Internet by Morris Sadek, an Egyptian-born Coptic Christian ally of Terry Jones, a Florida pastor and hatemonger whose threats to burn a copy of the Koran inspired deadly riots in Afghanistan in 2010 and 2011.

However offensive the video is, it could never justify the violence in Benghazi and Cairo. But Mr. Jones, Mr. Sadek and whoever made the film did true damage to the interests of the United States and its core principle of respecting all faiths.

[maineman]

What people don't understand is that nobody likes Hillary. Maybe the most important requirement for the job is LIKEABILITY.

Hillary just married a likeable guy. She ISN'T likeable. She's a Midol-deprived BEYOTCH. She's not even very smart.



seems like the people who respond to poll after poll about Hillary don't share your views.

why am I not surprised?

[Max Rockatansky]

The main polls that will count are those voting for the Democratic nominee for President and the general election vote in November 2016.

[Reason10]

So Captain Ed found another dozen Clinton scandals? Cool, he's been doing that his entire career so good luck! :D

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/437/846/a5c.jpg

Democrat voters are so stupid that they don't care that this btch got an Ambassador killed. But they DO care if she is a btch.

[Reason10]

seems like the people who respond to poll after poll about Hillary don't share your views.

why am I not surprised?

There are a lot of idiots out there who don't have to work. They've got all the time in the world to respond to polls.

[Reason10]

Agreed. While I believe HRC, and Bill, deserve the heat they've received for their multiple duplicitous actions, the RW has certainly oversold their argument. Benghazi is a classic example of the Right overselling their case.

I completely agree with your boy-who-called-Wolf example.

So LYING about what happened at Benghazi is okay with you? If Condoleeza Rice did the same thing during the Bush Administration, you'd have nothing to say about it?

I thought so.

[Max Rockatansky]

So LYING about what happened at Benghazi is okay with you? If Condoleeza Rice did the same thing during the Bush Administration, you'd have nothing to say about it?

I thought so.
You are free to think whatever you like but being wrong is not a virtue, son.

You assume too much and let your own ideology lead you into a box canyon. Lighten up. It's people like you which is why the RNC is shrinking and why people like me became Independents. Good luck in 2016 without our vote.

[zelmo1234]

If they'd said nothing and offered no theories, you guys would have pitched a fit.

Keep drilling, but i can only imagine the caterwauling that would have ensued if we'd spent years and millions trying to turn each of these into some sort of scandal. :rolleyes:

https://gkrouse.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/11089_615017145190467_1147559393_n.png?w=640&h=340

Zero blame on a video and Zero American arrested and detained for making a video!

Here is a little blast from the past that might get the point across.

Bush Lied and people died, The left pushed that to the hilt, even though Senator Kerry and Clinton were able to see the same information and agreed with the presidents. Yes the "S" is intended, because President Clinton not 1.5 years out of office agreed too?

So you can't have it both ways, the partisan ship is here to stay, until they go broke and don't matter any more

[zelmo1234]

seems like the people who respond to poll after poll about Hillary don't share your views.

why am I not surprised?

You have to look at the makeup of the poll, Here is fly over country she is not a real favorite of the people

[del]

Zero blame on a video and Zero American arrested and detained for making a video!

Here is a little blast from the past that might get the point across.

Bush Lied and people died, The left pushed that to the hilt, even though Senator Kerry and Clinton were able to see the same information and agreed with the presidents. Yes the "S" is intended, because President Clinton not 1.5 years out of office agreed too?

So you can't have it both ways, the partisan ship is here to stay, until they go broke and don't matter any more

no one was arrested for making a video.

smarten up

[zelmo1234]

no one was arrested for making a video.

smarten up

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/27/world/california-anti-islam-filmmaker/

Next!

[maineman]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/27/world/california-anti-islam-filmmaker/

Next!

he wasn't arrested for making a video, he was arrested for violating parole.

next!

[hanger4]

he wasn't arrested for making a video, he was arrested for violating parole.

next!

You should explain that to del not zelmo.

[Reason10]

You are free to think whatever you like but being wrong is not a virtue, son.

You assume too much and let your own ideology lead you into a box canyon. Lighten up. It's people like you which is why the RNC is shrinking and why people like me became Independents. Good luck in 2016 without our vote.

I don't have to assume anything when it comes to liberals. They are about as much a mystery as a stopped up toilet is to a plumber.

Secondly, there are no independents. Those who call themselves independents are nothing more than liberals who are ashamed of the title.

Conservative Republicans are the only independent thinkers in the country. Everyone else is an uneducated lemming.

The RNC unfortunately isn't shrinking. It's merely moving to the left, which is why the GOP loses presidential elections.

[Max Rockatansky]

I don't have to assume anything when it comes to liberals. ....

Sorry, but assuming everyone who doesn't agree with you is a liberal is not only wrong, but ignorant.

By your definition of "Conservative Republican", both Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan were liberals. This is exemplified in your incorrect perceptions that the RNC hasn't shrunk, if not continuing to shrink over time, but that it's moving left. Son, by European standards, even our Left is to the right as shown below. To make the assertion that the RNC is moving Left is evidence that you are on the extreme right. Worse, you are strongly authoritarian, which is unAmerican since it violates the precepts of both the Declaration of Independence and our Constitution. The good news is your narrow, extreme view is not only in the minority, but doomed to failure.

2012 election:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/images/us2012.png

2008 election:
http://www.politicalcompass.org/images/uscandidates2008.png

[Peter1469]

Chris. KC use to maintain a Nolan Chart with the tPF members on it. Do you know where it is, and how to update it?

[GrassrootsConservative]

What happened to KC anyway?

[Peter1469]

What happened to KC anyway?

Focusing on school last that I heard.

[Chris]

Chris. KC use to maintain a Nolan Chart with the tPF members on it. Do you know where it is, and how to update it?


http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/5279-Hey-guys-Political-Crowd-Chart

Last chart here but doesn't show: http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/5279-Hey-guys-Political-Crowd-Chart?p=642862&viewfull=1#post642862

Here's the data though:

refugee=-2%2C1&perianne=2%2C3&spunkloaf=-3.3%2C-7&Cpt__Obvious=-4.00%2C-3.59&Peter=2.0%2C-3.4&Polly=-10.0%2C-6.3&Chris=7.0%2C-4.0&Adelaide=-9.0%2C-7.2&Mister_D=-2.2%2C1.2&KC=-0.1%2C-5.1&Chloe=-9.1%2C-3.7&Dr__Who=-6.1%2C-3.0&Guerilla=-3.0%2C-3.9&Cigar=-3.6%2C-2.0&Agravan=1.7%2C0.9&Oceanlover=-2.1%2C0.3&mainecoons=3.6%2C-2.1&The_XL=2.2%2C-5.2&GRC=5.5%2C-0.2&Junie=-2%2C-2.5&Spectre=4.5%2C-1.49&Polecat=-1.5%2C-1.2&Alyosha=0.8%2C-7.3&Kilgram=-9.38%2C-9.59&ravi=-3.88%2C-4.41&Nic34=-5.38%2C-7.64&GreenArrow=-5.12%2C-7.85&Kabuki_Joe=-1.00%2C-0.56&DigitalBluster=-9.75%2C-9.18%3Cdiv%20


New format is


http://www.politicalcompass.org/crowdchart?name=x&ec=0&soc=0

[Chris]

http://www.politicalcompass.org/charts/crowdchart?Obvious=-4.00%2C-3.59&Peter=2.0%2C-3.4&Polly=-10.0%2C-6.3&Adelaide=-9.0%2C-7.2&MisterD=-2.2%2C1.2&Chloe=-9.1%2C-3.7&DrWho=-6.1%2C-3.0&Guerilla=-3.0%2C-3.9&Cigar=-3.6%2C-2.0&TheXL=2.2%2C-5.2&GRC=5.5%2C-0.2&Polecat=-1.5%2C-1.2&Kilgram=-9.38%2C-9.59&Nic34=-5.38%2C-7.64&GreenArrow=-5.12%2C-7.85&name=Chris&ec=7.0&soc=-4.0



Those are members currently active.

[PolWatch]

http://www.politicalcompass.org/charts/crowdchart?Obvious=-4.00%2C-3.59&Peter=2.0%2C-3.4&Polly=-10.0%2C-6.3&Adelaide=-9.0%2C-7.2&MisterD=-2.2%2C1.2&Chloe=-9.1%2C-3.7&DrWho=-6.1%2C-3.0&Guerilla=-3.0%2C-3.9&Cigar=-3.6%2C-2.0&TheXL=2.2%2C-5.2&GRC=5.5%2C-0.2&Polecat=-1.5%2C-1.2&Kilgram=-9.38%2C-9.59&Nic34=-5.38%2C-7.64&GreenArrow=-5.12%2C-7.85&name=Chris&ec=7.0&soc=-4.0



Those are members currently active.

what formula is used to determine placement on the chart?

[Chris]

what formula is used to determine placement on the chart?

Take this test: https://www.politicalcompass.org/test

It will tell you your score, report it here, and I'll add you to our chart.

[Max Rockatansky]

what formula is used to determine placement on the chart?

I don't know, but it appears to be several points off.

[Max Rockatansky]

Take this test: https://www.politicalcompass.org/test

It will tell you your score, report it here, and I'll add you to our chart.
-3.50, -3.54 These scores are a year or two old. I'd have to retake to see if my view has shifted, but doubt it'd move much.

[PolWatch]

Economic Left/Right: -4.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.03

looks like I'm out there alone in my own view of the things....

[Chris]

http://www.politicalcompass.org/charts/crowdchart?Obvious=-4.00%2C-3.59&Peter=2.0%2C-3.4&Polly=-10.0%2C-6.3&Adelaide=-9.0%2C-7.2&MisterD=-2.2%2C1.2&Chloe=-9.1%2C-3.7&DrWho=-6.1%2C-3.0&Guerilla=-3.0%2C-3.9&Cigar=-3.6%2C-2.0&TheXL=2.2%2C-5.2&GRC=5.5%2C-0.2&Polecat=-1.5%2C-1.2&Kilgram=-9.38%2C-9.59&Nic34=-5.38%2C-7.64&GreenArrow=-5.12%2C-7.85&Max=-3.50%2C-3.54&PolWatch=-4.63%2C-5.03&name=Chris&ec=7.0&soc=-4.0


Hmmm, not displaying. Working on it...


Max, you're between Obvious and Guerilla.

[Chris]

Bunch of left libertarians!

[Max Rockatansky]

Interesting that none are as right nor authoritarian as the Democratic Party or President Obama.

[PolWatch]

Interesting that none are as right nor authoritarian as the Democratic Party or President Obama.

kinda defeats the image that everyone who isn't in lockstep with the republican party are lib, lib, lib dems!

It looks like we are forum full of people with their own opinions...

[Max Rockatansky]

kinda defeats the image that everyone who isn't in lockstep with the republican party are lib, lib, lib dems!

It looks like we are forum full of people with their own opinions...

And pretty liberal and libertarian about it!

[Chris]

Interesting that none are as right nor authoritarian as the Democratic Party or President Obama.

Or the Republican Party.


I don't think the test really captures the vertical axis well. It's a British libertarian test so they probably want people to end up left and libertarian.

[PolWatch]

It looks like lots of us believe in allowing adults to make their own decisions instead of wanting Big Brother to tell us when to inhale & exhale. If that makes us liberal, then I guess we are. I think it means we adhere to the original ideas of the Founding Fathers.

[Max Rockatansky]

Or the Republican Party.


I don't think the test really captures the vertical axis well. It's a British libertarian test so they probably want people to end up left and libertarian.

Doubtful. Any test designed to produce a specific answer isn't a true test.

For me, IIRC, the dividing line between Left and Right were questions on abortion, marriage, religion. Key parts of the 21st Century Republican agenda but not inline with the Conservative ideals I grew up with and believed in.

[Max Rockatansky]

It looks like lots of us believe in allowing adults to make their own decisions instead of wanting Big Brother to tell us when to inhale & exhale. If that makes us liberal, then I guess we are. I think it means we adhere to the original ideas of the Founding Fathers.
Agreed.

The fact we participate in a political forum separates us out from many Americans by itself. We're a subset of a subset.